I'm in beta and will probably betray to Warden after it goes live....here's why:

[bubbaj6]

Disclaimer: these are just my first impressions of a system that is subject to change. Remember, I'm entitled to my opinion as you are for yours, but let's keep this friendly.What I posted on the beta board:-------------------------------------------------------------------------It may just be me, but my main is a Fury and I will be betraying to Warden if my AA do not change. As it stands now: as a Fae with perma safe fall and the glide thing, there is no point in putting points into the Predator upgrade. a) it only boosts up to like 30% run speed and b) adds a safe fall component which is pointless for a fae. Wardens get upgrades to their SoW which makes it a 45 min spell that bumps your runspeed to 45%. (can be cast on anyone and anywhere, in or out of group) My Energy Vortex seems nice, but all it does at maxed AA is give me a temp buff that makes my damage spells do 50% more, but cost 50% more and reduces my healing by 50%. Now, I'm like a really bad sorceror. There's an ability that allows me to give someone in my group a Salve heal spell. It does about 600-750hp. Oh, I lose that spell too. How is this supposed to help a raid or a group? I'm the healer, it's my job. There's an ability that allows me to turn a mage or priest (only) into a tiger and have them melee in order to get their power back. Right, that's all we need on raids is for the sorcerors to run into AE range and beat on something to get a bit of power back...after I cast this spell on them. (which also limits their casting, I think) I don't know, I just played a warden after that and the AA were all nice and passive and made Wardens better Wardens....mine just made me feel confused about my role. They don't help me solo, group or raid, really. They're just weird.<div></div>

[frostbane]

<P>These threads always crack me up!</P> <P>Look at the warden boards, most of them are complaining because they don't get any increases to our heals, and that the Damage AA's all turn their spells into CA's.  </P> <P>*sigh*</P>

[quetzaqotl]

Its personal preference, as far as increasing heals go... lol if you think increasing our emergency heals we can cast once every 15 mins is so hot... I mean come on lol.

[bubbaj6]

Oh, I totally see their point about the melee AAs being...well, not-so-desirable, BUT....their other ones are what makes ME desire them. I wasn't saying that ALL of their abilities are nice, just that it's nice being able to:*send some swarm pets*plant a healing grove*buff up speed to anyone at 45% for 45 mins*have a single target root, and an encounter root, *and* a snare...(all of them can be buffed up with AA points)*supposedly heal better than Furiesetc...I was just saying that I loved my fury before the new AA, now I like playing a warden better...and the only thing that changed my mind was the new AA.<div></div>

[bubbaj6]

I should also mention that one of the biggest areas I like is the SoW AA thing.EoF has, by far, the most beautiful zones in the game, but when I say they are huge...I don't quite emphasize 'huge' enough. In fact, most zones are like Antonica and Commonlands where you don't zone into a a new part, but your map shifts to the new area.Speed increases across the board are needed to get around. Mostly why they're probably bringing back druid rings and sorcerer spires. (I've seen a bunch by the way)I played a Fae warden, beta buffed,  first off and had so much fun with the perma-safe fall, the Glide ability that Fae get (it's like jumping underwater with the shaman EB spell) and the 45% SoW that Wardens have. (beta buff gives you 100aa, level 70, full set of relic gear, Claymore quest rewards basically, and some fabled jewelry)I did a /feedback and said that they should make the Predator AA (you can put 5 points into it) a little better. As I stated above, it only makes it go up to 30% speed increase and gives you a bit, not full, safe fall, that's it.My play style didn't really change, I still raid with my guild, but I think I'll be better off as a Warden now. I always thought that I healed as well as they did, but I had more DPS. That's kind of changed though.<div></div>

[Rumbler]

<P>From the perspective a 70 Raid Fury most of it is great.</P> <P>As a raid Fury we get to heal spike damage and group and group AoE damage at best. Our buffs don't usually get us in a mt group. In mt group the shaman will do the bulk of the healing followed by the cleric and the warden if the crap hits the fan. Non mt priests might get a look in on heals at same time as warden but wardens regens are better than ours so we aren't allowed to cast anything other than our direct heals. </P> <P>We are great group healers when an aoe is not avoidable. We are great at catching spike damage if paying attention. Other than that we DPS and we can do nice DPS for a priest if working at it. To me the energy line perfectly compliments our raid role although energy vortex is a little dangerous if we are meant to be catching spikes. If however there is 10 priests on the raid Fury has the fantastic option to just go for dps. Energy Vortex did nothing at all in beta last night so I hope its getting fixed.</P> <P>Our run speed enhancements are fantastic. I played with them in beta last night. Pact of the cheetah will give you 100% or more run speed for 50 seconds. Falling damage is less overall in EoF anyway so combined with our aa we can run at 100% speed without killing ourselves on the rough EoF terrain. </P> <P>I agree giving someone else a spell that even I never use is pretty poor and I can't see any Fury opting for that AA. The mage/priest tiger thing is lost on me. It's practically a fluff spell but it may have some benefits I haven't thought of yet. I won't pick it. I would rather have seen some speed improvement on our direct heals for catching spikes here but that probably messes with the offensive fury, defensive warden definition.</P> <P>I find the wardens getting their attacks turned to combat arts very odd but maybe combined with the str line in previous aa's this will give them good damage. </P> <P>Overall i think the changes help define the two classes with Wardens being more defensive and Furies being more offensive.</P>

[Lulian]

For the record the 35% run speed on predator is an in-combat run speed buff...  let wardens keep their SoW aa. <div></div>

[EQ2Playa432]

<div><blockquote><hr>Lulian wrote:For the record the 35% run speed on predator is an in-combat run speed buff...  let wardens keep their SoW aa. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Yep. Being able to run with a 35% bonus in or out of combat is much better then just running 45% in combat, but that's my opinion.</div>

[bubbaj6]

True, it's 35% in combat and SoW is only out-of-combat, but....I do the most traveling for quests (out of combat)I raid a lot and don't find myself moving that much.If I were a tank, I would like this to train through a dungeon, but I have PoC to get me where I want, and out of sticky situations.<div></div>

[bubbaj6]

I also forgot to mention the Warden end-line *group* buff called Nature Walk. If I remember correctly, it was a group buff that, until cancelled, did not take up a conc. slot and made the entire group immune to root/snare...with no penalties. Someone said a 50% snare while this was on, but they must have removed it. (also it makes it pointless to be immune to snare and then snared)<div></div>

[EQ2Playa432]

What about the fury achievement that makes Hibernation proc early?<div></div>

[Boli32]

<font color="#ffff00"> There's an ability that allows me to turn a mage or priest (only) into a tiger and have them melee in order to get their power back. Right, that's all we need on raids is for the sorcerors to run into AE range and beat on something to get a bit of power back...after I cast this spell on them. (which also limits their casting, I think) <font color="#ffffff">Now what has got me really interested... is can you cast this on yourself? </font></font><div></div>

[quetzaqotl]

You can but it stiffles you the +mitig doesnt work on priests so not on yourself (and as far as I could see it wasnt that good anyway) the haste is nice could get myself with some items to 150% haste but in all fairness this achievement doesnt seem very useful for me.

[Crowflight]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> bubbaj6 wrote:<BR><BR>There's an ability that allows me to give someone in my group a Salve heal spell. It does about 600-750hp. Oh, I lose that spell too. How is this supposed to help a raid or a group? I'm the healer, it's my job.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Wouldn't it allow you to use Urchin and let the tank or someone else heal while you are stunned.  Could be useful combined with Hibernation and the ability that adds the small HoT to Urchin.  Or have I misunderstood how this works?

[Swiftshad]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P><BR>It may just be me, but my main is a Fury and I will be betraying to Warden if my AA do not change. As it stands now: as a Fae with perma safe fall and the glide thing, there is no point in putting points into the Predator upgrade. a) it only boosts up to like 30% run speed and b) adds a safe fall component which is pointless for a fae.<BR></P> <P></P> <HR> <P>Ummm I'm not sure I follow you here.   Predator upgrade with safe fall is not pointless to your fury main - your main will not have perma safe fall and glide as they are not a Fae. </P> <P> </P> <P>My horse runs at 40% anyway so warden SOW is only really an advantage in a dungeon area, and usually you're fighting your way through not running fast anyway.  If you're gonna train, use enhanced pact of the cheetah and see everyone run into the walls and wipe out at corners running over 100% hehe</P> <P>Give me 35% in combat speed any day of the week - I hate being slowed down by combat.</P> <P>Big zones yes - but they are also adding stable stations like griffon stations for faster transport. </P> <P>Having your nukes changed to CA is a bigger pain... aren't CA's based on STR not INT...</P> <P><BR><BR><BR></P> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Message Edited by Swiftshadow on <SPAN class=date_text>11-06-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:15 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Swiftshadow on <SPAN class=date_text>11-07-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:12 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Swiftshadow on <span class=date_text>11-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:19 AM</span>

[genesis013]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> quetzaqotl wrote:<BR> You can but it stiffles you the +mitig doesnt work on priests so not on yourself (and as far as I could see it wasnt that good anyway) the haste is nice could get myself with some items to 150% haste but in all fairness this achievement doesnt seem very useful for me.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Did you regen much power using this? Or is it a small amount?

[Boli32]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>genesis013 wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> quetzaqotl wrote: <div></div>You can but it stiffles you the +mitig doesnt work on priests so not on yourself (and as far as I could see it wasnt that good anyway) the haste is nice could get myself with some items to 150% haste but in all fairness this achievement doesnt seem very useful for me. <hr> </blockquote>Did you regen much power using this? Or is it a small amount?<hr></blockquote>From what the description says it seems to regen per hit, as well as reduce hate, currantly with the KoS AAs with the group heal proc double attack and general meleeing buffs this buff sounds like a great alternative to being able to self regenerate power at an increased rate (with the added bonus of reducing my own hate).<div></div><p>Message Edited by boli on <span class=date_text>11-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:59 AM</span>

[CodeKill]

<DIV>Personally, I think betraying to a Warden, would be  a waste of time and plat ingame, unless your one of these people that buys plat for ingame purchases, and if that's the case, I hope someday it catches up with you. The other thing I did not realize is that you could betray classes, so call me a dumb [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] now. Why would you lvl a toon to 70 and then turn around and change it to something else? That is a lot of time and effort, to waste and bray to something else. Personally if I had to betray my fury I would do one fo two things. 1. Delete it 2 . Betray to Mystic.</DIV>

[Jaimster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CodeKiller wrote:<BR> <DIV>Personally, I think betraying to a Warden, would be  a waste of time and plat ingame, unless your one of these people that buys plat for ingame purchases, and if that's the case, I hope someday it catches up with you. The other thing I did not realize is that you could betray classes, so call me a dumb [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] now. Why would you lvl a toon to 70 and then turn around and change it to something else? That is a lot of time and effort, to waste and bray to something else. Personally if I had to betray my fury I would do one fo two things. 1. Delete it 2 . Betray to Mystic.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well, let's see... reasons to betray instead of starting over:</P> <P>1) Maybe your character is also a 70 tradeskiller and you want them in the same toon, but don't like your current adventure class anymore</P> <P>2) You started your character when the game first came out and you've finally had it with the changes they keep making to your class</P> <P>3) You can't betray a fury to a mystic (that would be what you'd get if you betrayed a defiler)....<BR></P> <P>While I personally wouldn't betray a level 70 adventurer, I can certainly understand why someone might want to, and it really has nothing to do with whether a person buys plat...</P><p>Message Edited by Jaimster on <span class=date_text>11-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:41 AM</span>

[Radigazt]

<P>OK, I didn't play EoF beta so I'm going on what I've read, not experience.  </P> <P>But, IMHO, both Wardens and Furies did very very well compared to other classes' AA's.  I certainly will not be complaining.  </P> <P>I really liked how the lines had something in there for everyone.  A Raider (not me!) has stuff to like, and a PvP'er (me!) has something to like, and even a Solo'er has something to like in there.  Well done SOE!</P> <P>From a PvP perspective the best thing going for the Wardens are the change of spells to combat arts, now the Warden can cast on the move!  That's huge in PvP.  The second biggest thing they have is the ability to make the entire group immune to roots and knockbacks ... wow, that's also huge.  Yeah, there's lots of other nice things in there for Wardens too, so I think they're very fortunate.  </P> <P>But Furies have a great selection as well, and I definitely wouldn't complain, especially after seeing what Scouts and other classes received.  Furies get buffs that shorten the recast and casting time of their attacks, which allows them to raise their DPS, but also to slip in a nuke or two without jeopardizing keeping their groupmates alive.  As a PvP'er, I'll be concentrating on the Hindering line (getting my Snare up to a 75% percent snare!#@!) and Energy lines (faster recasting is awesome).  But, the in-combat runspeed buff is extremely attractive too.  I think both Wardens and Furies have a wonderful array of AA's, and I for one am going to be playing both classes a lot.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Kerlin]

Wardens get some pretty nice mele enhancements for AAs.  The Animal Form AA that Furies get will turn our Warden friends into mele DPS machines.  Fury and Warden duo anyone?<font color="#ff9900"></font><div></div>

[Fizwi]

It's about 80-90 power back per hit.  That's the real boon of the spell -- rather easy to refill someone on blue for those long fights!  The aggro drop is small, just a bonus really, along with the small melee DPS you'll be contributing.Personally I think it's a neat concept with some great situational uses...pretty much what all ender AAs should be.<div></div>

[kcirrot]

<div><blockquote><hr>frostbane wrote:<div></div> <p>These threads always crack me up!</p> <p>Look at the warden boards, most of them are complaining because they don't get any increases to our heals, and that the Damage AA's all turn their spells into CA's.  </p> <p>*sigh*</p><hr></blockquote>/agree, the wardens are all talking about betraying to Fury.  <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></div>

[SpritRaja]

<P>From what i have seen of those CA they seriously do suck. Personally feel that furies and wardens were designed slightly wrong. Furies have to tank the mob soloing but they gave CA achievementsto the Warden who tend to stand back and nuke while rooting. The warden also got the mit buff placed on his animal form while furies got agility/stamina. Persoanlly think that being toe to toe with a mob the fury should have gotten the mit buff.</P> <P>They are addressing this in EOF by giving furies a root and letting warden be up and close to the mob with thier new CA achievements. Those achievements definately need to be tweaked though.</P>

[Boli32]

I've allways thought they shoudl have given the +mit buff to one and the root to another... both being on the same class was allways bewildering. Now we both have roots If I were warden I woudl think of my root as a 'bonus' and not as an intergral part of my class, the wardens I talked to in game I have discussses this with and they were very interested to hear about my experiances with the heal proc (especially combined with haste).Both of the druid lines if you take a step back and look at the overall picture look quite well thought out and a much greater improvement to our class than the previous KoS AAs.  The only thing worrying me currantly is the lack of a role in raids in comparison to other healers.... afterall if we end up there just to dps you might as well throw us out and get a real dps... heck a necromancer.. they get spot heals.

[Vikto]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>bubbaj6 wrote:Disclaimer: these are just my first impressions of a system that is subject to change. Remember, I'm entitled to my opinion as you are for yours, but let's keep this friendly.What I posted on the beta board:-------------------------------------------------------------------------It may just be me, but my main is a Fury and I will be betraying to Warden if my AA do not change. As it stands now: as a Fae with perma safe fall and the glide thing, there is no point in putting points into the Predator upgrade. a) it only boosts up to like 30% run speed and b) adds a safe fall component which is pointless for a fae.<font color="#ff0000">Actually, I have a fae Fury on Beta as well and at 5 points into that AA it <strike>increases my runspeed by 40%, not 30</strike> (NM, I just realized my Fae has that 5% runspeed boost racial ability as well, so it's only 35% for the AA). Pretty nice since it's on ALL the time, <i>even in combat. </i>Also, for a Fae, if you ride a horse, you lose all your glide / feather fall abilities and will drop like a rock like everyone else, so there is definitely a benefit for the Fae not having to lose an ability to get the runspeed.</font> Wardens get upgrades to their SoW which makes it a 45 min spell that bumps your runspeed to 45%. (can be cast on anyone and anywhere, in or out of group) My Energy Vortex seems nice, but all it does at maxed AA is give me a temp buff that makes my damage spells do 50% more, but cost 50% more and reduces my healing by 50%. Now, I'm like a really bad sorceror. There's an ability that allows me to give someone in my group a Salve heal spell. It does about 600-750hp. Oh, I lose that spell too. How is this supposed to help a raid or a group? I'm the healer, it's my job.<font color="#ff0000">Well, I've not tested this AA but let me pose a situation to you. You're at a raid. The final mob is an orange con mob which means it's gonna be a bit more difficult for the tank to take and hold aggro for the fight. This mob also mem-wipes every minute or so. Your tank is really wishing for another ability to increase even just a little bit of his hate on the mob. In comes the Fury with the transfer heal spell. Sure, it's not a large heal at all, but it's quick casting, quick recast, and can replace a combat art that otherwise might not even land on that orange con mob and just waste his power. We all know heals add to the mobs hate list. With the tank healing himself, he can accrue more guaranteed hate since he isn't gonna resist a heal.The above situation is hypothetical and may not even work that way, but it's one of the few things that may actually make any sense for this ability.</font> There's an ability that allows me to turn a mage or priest (only) into a tiger and have them melee in order to get their power back. Right, that's all we need on raids is for the sorcerors to run into AE range and beat on something to get a bit of power back...after I cast this spell on them. (which also limits their casting, I think) <font color="#ff0000">Haven't tested this one so really don't have anything to say about it.</font> I don't know, I just played a warden after that and the AA were all nice and passive and made Wardens better Wardens....mine just made me feel confused about my role. They don't help me solo, group or raid, really. They're just weird.<div></div><hr></blockquote></div><p>Message Edited by Viktorr on <span class=date_text>11-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:24 AM</span>

[Nembutal]

<P>I think the donation of the Fury Salve line of spells is the most innovate AA's they made.  I also think that a bard would love to have access to a heal spell since thier DPS is buff and people keep them around for the buffs.</P> <P>Yes healing is our job and we are expected to do it.. however if you are healing the MT it is nice to allow your bard (or whatever) to patch heal the group.  Dirge rez people on raids already... would be nice to let them rez and heal the person they rezed.  While it is a boring job I think it is a promotion to what they currently do during battle which is rez and low DPS.  The impact they would have to the raid IMHO would be pretty fantastic.</P>

[quetzaqotl]

<P>Hmmm so yeah furies ge a achievement ability to make troubadours more helpful on raids compared to dirges?</P> <P>This ability gives one of our  heal spells to someone else, and we can't use it anymore (thats at least the intention of this spell its still bugged tho) I cycle all my heals depending on how hard a mob is so taking away one of our heals... not very useful maybe it was a way from the devs to tell us its ok to go stun yourself someone else can heal a little bit while you go and make some coffee.</P> <P>But seriously yeah Im sure it would be nice for dirges and troubs lol but Im not gonna take this aa to make them feel more needed lol. (btw they both play an important role in raids as it is).</P>

[Boli32]

I think it'll be pretty handy to use in conjuction with our self stunning abilties (of which we have many). cast that, and then our self stun manourve. I can't count the number of tiumes I've had to end one of those early in order to heal<div></div>

[Vegaxe]

<P>I think the salve AA is a unique ability that coudl be extrememly useful within a tight team oriented raid or group.</P> <P>Yes, we loose one of our singel heals... but we can use our group heals more, and three singels is fine. </P> <P>A few questions though... will the salve heal pull from the furys power pool, or the person usnig the heal.  Cna the person witht he salve heal outside of the group?</P> <P>If they use their own power healing, and can heal out side of group, this is a awesome spell for long and difficult fights.</P>