Did we just loose our HOTs?

[EvilMissKitty]

I just logged in after the recent patch.err.. so we lost many of our HOTs that make us unique? (e.g. Bloom/Efflo?) I've noticed all our heals except the fleshweave line are all normal heals now, not HOTs? or is that a typo? or something wrong my character?*confused*<div></div>

[Quietas]

My Fury is only 20 and I noticed this immediately once I sorted out spells. They seem to have added a somewhat lame direct heal for 143-174 where Bloom was doing nearly twice that.<div></div>

[Dragonreal]

<div>The reason the bloom and effloresce lines are removed is because they're warden heals, not fury heals. The only reason you had them at all was because of the druid class level (which is now removed from game) that combined some fury abilities with some warden abilities. You would eventually have lost them anyway (once you hit 32+ you really shouldn't/wouldn't be using either of those heals at all anymore and would have been using the fury specific heals which are just straight direct heals with no hot attached).</div>

[Domyr Farseeker]

<div>Maybe I'm misunderstanding, Dragonrealms...it sounds like you're saying Fury's aren't supposed to get HoT's because that's the Warden's specialty? That's just not true. There's several Fury specific spells with HoT's all the way through later levels:</div><ul><li>Fleshweave (26)</li><li>Ram's Growth (2<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></li><li>Wild Bloodflow (40)</li><li>Feral Tenacity (41)</li><li>Owl's Restoration (42)</li><li>Feral Pulse (4<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></li><li>Untamed Bloodblow (45)</li><li>Feral Vehemence (55)</li><li>Owl's Grace (56)</li></ul><p>Those all have heal over time components. They are all given well after the split between the Druid subclasses. HoT's are a Fury's hallmark heal just as they are for Wardens.</p><p>If they were replacing a lower level HoT to differentiate Fury and Warden progression, it should have been replaced with another HoT...not a direct heal.</p><p> </p>

[Pucswift]

<span><blockquote><hr>Domyr Farseeker wrote:<div>Maybe I'm misunderstanding, Dragonrealms...it sounds like you're saying Fury's aren't supposed to get HoT's because that's the Warden's specialty? That's just not true. There's several Fury specific spells with HoT's all the way through later levels:</div><ul><li>Fleshweave (26)</li><li>Ram's Growth (2<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></li><li>Wild Bloodflow (40)</li><li>Feral Tenacity (41)</li><li>Owl's Restoration (42)</li><li>Feral Pulse (4<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></li><li>Untamed Bloodblow (45)</li><li>Feral Vehemence (55)</li><li>Owl's Grace (56)</li></ul><p>Those all have heal over time components. They are all given well after the split between the Druid subclasses. HoT's are a Fury's hallmark heal just as they are for Wardens.</p><p>If they were replacing a lower level HoT to differentiate Fury and Warden progression, it should have been replaced with another HoT...not a direct heal.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>no dragon was stating that just the </span>bloom and effloresce lines where removed because they are warden spells  we still have HoT just not that line<div></div>

[Dragonreal]

<div></div>Yes what 3tan said... Those two spell lines as well as the sylvan wind line are not exactly "hots" they are direct heals that have been split between a small direct heal (smallest of all healers) and an extra hot component that, over its duration, makes up something like 50-60% of the total heal value. This extra hot component IS the warden's specialty not the fury's, and it's always been like this, even before lu13. The fury's specialty is fast-cast, fast-recast direct heals.

[StixxliteAZ]

It just looked to me like they changed the names.. I should look closer tonight, but at Level 60 I know I'll never use those..<div></div>

[Domyr Farseeker]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>StixxliteAZ wrote:It just looked to me like they changed the names.. I should look closer tonight, but at Level 60 I know I'll never use those..<hr></blockquote>I didn't check my lower level spells last night either, although this is the way I assumed it was going to work. Lower level hots should have been replaced by renamed/subclass-specific hots, not direct heals.

[jpbaeten]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>Domyr Farseeker wrote:</p><p>I didn't check my lower level spells last night either, although this is the way I assumed it was going to work. Lower level hots should have been replaced by renamed/subclass-specific hots, not direct heals.</p><hr></blockquote><p>That is exactly what happened.  The only healing spells removed were the direct heals that offered a HoT component, because those are Warden specialties.  Bloom (small direct heal) and Effloresce (large direct heal) were replaced by Fury versions that do not have HoT components, because those are not Fury specialties.</p><p>There are other Warden specific lines removed that Furies into their 30s are going to notice missing.</p>

[Demenshia]

<div></div><p>Ok a question for ya then...</p><p>I am still a lower level fury (21).  I lost most my HOT spells and all my nukes (smite and chill) Is it safe to say now that LU19 is underway that the HOT spells are only for Wardens now?  I really enjoyed that aspect of being a fury pre LU19.   What types of healing is a fury more set up as now.  I really wanted a priest that could dish out some good nukes (for a priest that is) and still be able to the HOT stuff.  Is a fury still my best choice or should I reroll a warden?</p><p> </p><p>Thanks for any info guys</p>

[Ri]

<div>Furies get 5 main heal spells. 2 single target direct heals (1 minor, 1 major) both very fast cast/recast, 1 single target HoT (main heal spell), 1 group HoT, and 1 group direct heal.</div><div> </div><div>Wardens also get the same basic 5 heal spells, except their direct heals have a HoT attached at the end; smaller upfront heal, but the heals between the two classes are roughly the same (or at least they're supposed to be close  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).  Wardens also get the single target HoT, group HoT and group direct heals.</div><div> </div><div>Personally, I perfer short and sweet, to the HoTs that were bloom and efforvesence (sp?), but it's personal taste.  And with the new changes, you can always roll a warden up to L10 or so and see if you perfer healing that way.</div>

[Demenshia]

<div></div><p>Wow that was a fast reply.  Thanks so much.</p><p> </p><p>I have always heard that the furies get the better nukes of the priests.  Is this still a true statement?  I lost my chill spell and am really bummed about that.  My biggest concern is in the upper levels though.  Do we still out nuke the wardens?</p>

[Ri]

<div>Druids get argubly the best attack spells for any priest in this game.  It's my understanding that Furies excel at group encounters (I <3 starnova -- 1200 damage a mob at L46) whereas Warden's excel at single target encounters.  Roughly the same as the similarities between a wizard and warlock.</div><div> </div><div>That said, we do get 2 very nice DD spells.  Starnova series (AoE DD) and the Strike of Thunder series (DD).  Both are very high damage, but come at a cost of very long recast timers.  I'm not entirely sure of what Warden's get, but like I said, I think it's roughly the same.</div><div> </div><div>One very large benefit to being a fury is that we can boost our Int through our buffs, whereas a Warden increases their Wisdom.  This also increases our damage output, but at a cost of a smaller powerpool.  For most of your Fury life, you'll have 2 DDs and 2 DoTs.  Later on, you get a third DoT plus a DoT AoE pet.  Want to say Warden's get a single target DoT pet and a defense spell instead of a third DoT.</div>

[Dragonreal]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rish wrote:<div>Druids get argubly the best attack spells for any priest in this game.  It's my understanding that Furies excel at group encounters (I <3 starnova -- 1200 damage a mob at L46) whereas Warden's excel at single target encounters.  Roughly the same as the similarities between a wizard and warlock.</div><div> </div><div>That said, we do get 2 very nice DD spells.  Starnova series (AoE DD) and the Strike of Thunder series (DD).  Both are very high damage, but come at a cost of very long recast timers.  I'm not entirely sure of what Warden's get, but like I said, I think it's roughly the same.</div><div> </div><div>One very large benefit to being a fury is that we can boost our Int through our buffs, whereas a Warden increases their Wisdom.  This also increases our damage output, but at a cost of a smaller powerpool.  For most of your Fury life, you'll have 2 DDs and 2 DoTs.  Later on, you get a third DoT plus a DoT AoE pet.  Want to say Warden's get a single target DoT pet and a defense spell instead of a third DoT.</div><hr></blockquote><p>Rish hit it spot-on really, even down to the defense buff and swarm pet hehe only thing to add is that the defense spell's best advantage atm isn't that it buffs group defense skill, but instead that it has a 20% chance to proc a stun on any mob that melees any group member, and that proc cuts down incoming damage by a LOT at the higher lvls.</p><p>As for the dmg spells, it's furys = 2 dots (divine and cold [though the description says it should be magic]) and wardens = 2 nukes (heat and cold). at 23, furys get the strike of thunder line which is a high dmg, 3s cast/15 or 18s recast magic nuke; the warden equivalent is a cold dot that debuffs elemental (so it helps boost all the other damage spells the warden has). Both classes get an aoe (heat aoe for furys (4s cast/20s recast) and cold aoe for wardens (3s cast/16s recast)). And everything Rish said about the higher lvls and damage spells is true.</p><p>One last comparison for them:</p><p>Furys = burst; burst healing and burst damage.. you get good effects for both the dmg and healing categories but it's in bursts</p><p>Wardens = over time.. again, you get good effects for both dmg and healing, but instead of in bursts like the fury it's over time</p>

[Demenshia]

<div>Thanks guys so much for the replies.  Sorry if I hijacked this thread...I did not mean to.  I have a much better picture now of the 2 classes.  Last night I made a Warden and am going to level up to see if I like one or the other.  I do have one more question though.  On my Fury, once I do get my first set of nukes at level 23, can I use those nukes in conjunction with heroic oppertunities?  Hate to think that only my DOT stuff will work with them.</div><div> </div><div>Also, Dragonrealms....You mentioned on that other thread that wardens can still nuke pretty well if you get good gear and good adept spells.  My question for ya on that one is if money is no object and you can aford adept 3 spells and really the best gear, then can a warden keep up damage per second wise with a fury?  Or am I still better off putting that money into the best stuff for a fury to stay ahead on damage?</div>

[Ri]

<div>Yep, all of our DD and DoT spells have the HO hammer.  Think that's pretty standard across the board for all priests.</div>

[Dragonreal]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>2zulu wrote:<div>Also, Dragonrealms....You mentioned on that other thread that wardens can still nuke pretty well if you get good gear and good adept spells.  My question for ya on that one is if money is no object and you can aford adept 3 spells and really the best gear, then can a warden keep up damage per second wise with a fury?  Or am I still better off putting that money into the best stuff for a fury to stay ahead on damage?</div><hr></blockquote>It would depend on on the encounter and its length probably.. as I said, furies get burst damage and awesome aoe damage. Wardens can do comparable dmg to furies if they ahve the time to and if they're geared out and have concentrated on int; one thing to help with that is I'd say pickt the +int traits (there should be 3 total from 1-50).. it's not much int but it's a help (about like adding 1 more slot of armor/jewelry).  Wardens have to work for their damage just as furies have to work for their healing, but the potential IS there in both cases for both classes.

[Tylis]

<div></div><div>As a 23 Fury, I have 1 direct HOT, 1 group HOT and Sylvan Touch which is a group Heal with HOT added on.    Add to that my 2 direct heals and My 1 group direct heal and I'm doing alright.</div>

[Dragonreal]

<div></div>Sylvan touch is only single target ;P You dont' get your emergency group heal until low-mid 40s

[latrocin]

<div>I am glad I am not crazy I thought it was just me LOL</div>

[soibhan]

<div></div><font size="4">new to the board..and new to this thread, but i am a lvl 29 Fury, and we have been totally nerfed.  i used to be able to solo quite handily, now i make a nice target!  i have only ONE HoT, where as before i had TWO...i know your going to say i was going to lose it anyway..but you know what i USED that spell, a LOT more than i used Fleshweave!!  My offensive spells are NON-existant, and my SINGLE damage shield..well lets just say not much damage and not much shielding!!  I used to enjoy playing my Fury, now I am back to playing my lvl 39 Guardian, at least all of her abilities were pretty much left intact!!</font>

[NG23985_01]

<div>Fleshweave (and its upgrades) are your primary method of healing - not Efflorescense or Bloom (or its post-LU19 spell replacements). I solo'd a lot of the time with my fury back when he was 29, and this was BEFORE the combat update. The level 23 nuke did MAX of 250 damage back then, and the DoTs were something like 20-30 per 4 seconds.</div><div> </div><div>You were shooting youself in the foot by using Efflorescense over Fleshweave - Fleashweave is the superior heal. You should play your Fury again - Fury is one of the better-off classes in the game at this point. Furies are capable of healing very well, and have only a couple of spells that arent worth using. (Namely AGI/WIS debuff, and Fae Flames)</div>

[CodeKill]

<div></div><div></div>Bare in mind that the biggest difference in the Druid line is, Fury's are an offensive healer/nuker/dps, and do very well dealing damage and healing. The Warden is a defensive healer/dot/dps, and have their bonuses as well. When a lvl 55+ Fury and 55+ Warden are int he same grp, the grp benefits from both strats, and have a good survival chance, and survival rate. A grp wit a tank, wizzie, mezzer, dps master and any combo mentioned above, can rock and roll. Also I've soloed 85% of the lvls on this toon.<p>Message Edited by CodeKiller on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:02 PM</span></p>

[quetzaqotl]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>CodeKiller wrote:<div></div><div></div>Bare in mind that the biggest difference in the Druid line is, Fury's are an offensive healer/nuker/dps, and do very well dealing damage and healing. The Warden is a defensive healer/dot/dps, and have their bonuses as well. When a lvl 55+ Fury and 55+ Warden are int he same grp, the grp benefits from both strats, and have a good survival chance, and survival rate. A grp wit a tank, wizzie, mezzer, dps master and any combo mentioned above, can rock and roll. <strong><font color="#ff3300">Also I've soloed 85% of the lvls on this toon</font></strong>.<p>Message Edited by CodeKiller on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:02 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Very slowly I'd like to add:smileysurprised:

[soibhan]

<div></div><p><font size="4">took your hint and utilized snare more in my arsenal (sp).  a bit more effective.  ding'd 30 last nite.  how useful is Lucky Cabbage? i hope it's pretty good as it was the hobbit racial upgrade that i chose for her!!  thanks to all for listening to my venting!!</font></p><p><font size="4">soi</font></p>

[Telka]

<div>I love the fury heals just wish the other only heal could be used on myself hehe</div>