Healing on raids- Fury needs work with review of changes

[wasub]

<div></div>I hear there are issues being looked into at the moment for classes, one of which mentioned is raid difficulty. Last need we did a little sortie on 2 epic mobs in Clefts and i noticed something 1. Despite 3 mana regen classes in our group and over 4k mana i was easily the fastest healer our of the 2 groups to run out of mana, our reliance on not very efficient direct heals is to blame. 2. Druid regens not stacking Now i hear other classes moaning about keeping up with spike  heals and i for one am not too unhappy about our healing lines at level 54 as far as being a group a healer although when it comes to raids we need some work. Can i propose: A. Our direct heals require less mana- As this is our primary method of healing. B. Our regens stack with other druids. (i really think our regen is not a deal breaker for raids and should be allowed to stack) On an overall note we are pretty well spec'd group and had much difficulty and also much fun with these mobs and im sure there are many other class tweeks that are required which will assist. I just wanted to make sure that while your looking at fixing things like warden spike healing that you dont allow the good old fury to head to the back of the pack as a raid healer. Does anyone else agree with me here? Wavejump Allure Najena <div></div><p>Message Edited by wasubot on <span class=date_text>10-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:32 PM</span>

[sorinev]

<div></div>I 100% feel you on the fasest-to-out-of-power-thing. People are always telling me "healers don't dps plz" and I always say "I'm not. that's pure healing." Regens are not our primary method of healing, especially since they cancel reactives at the moment (and so don't use them when a cleric is around). We rely primarily on our direct heals. Since they are so small, we have to spam them. Which in turn leads to a LOT of power disappearing in a short amount of time. Our heals are very power inefficient. As opposed to Clerics and Shamans. In every group I've been in, no matter what happens, the other 4 subclasses (not including wardens. Haven't grouped with them since patch) always have much more power left at the end than I do. And they get a lot more healing done too, even with their lack of power usage. Looking at our parses that include heals, it's insane. Comparing the heal output to the mana usage........it's highly borked. Of course we do have DPS. The other non-druid healers in my guild haven't been able to touch my DPS. In a guild group today of a 60 guardian, 50 berserker, 60 Templar, 60 Defiler, 58 Swashbuckler, and me the 58 Fury - I was routinely 2nd in DPS, behind the Swashbuckler. Defiler commented (in a mutually humorous way. No genuine negativity) that it was a good thing I owned them both in DPS, because Furies can't heal. Could do nothing but agree <span>:smileytongue: So we can DPS....but it's still priest DPS. Which means we are still, understandably, highly outclassed by mages, scouts, and fighters. The other four subclasses have more health, more power, more mitigation, a lot more wisdom...more resists.....</span><span>And they are extremely power efficient on everything they do, to boot - </span><span>it's nuts. They have concentration buffs that all add heavy duty amounts of health and power, and most of them add bunches of wisdom too. And us? We add....Intelligence? Two of our 4 spells that use concentration (not counting 1 spell being used twice because its on two people), two of them add Intelligence. I am a priest, not a mage. Granted it's an offensive priest, but still a priest first and foremost. We add well over 100 Int to ourselves and at least one other person....but what purpose does this serve? it matters little in soloing, and matters little in groups where mages are either close to or over their INT cap anyways. Our spells are expensive and not at all efficient on power-used-to-health-returned (</span><span>setting the attacks aside). Sure we can dps in comparison to the others.......but that's in normal groups, where priest dpsing is ok. In raids, that all goes out the window. There's more than enough dps present in a raid for the priests to concentrate solely on healing. And this is exactly where we are deficient. People see the fastly disappearing Fury power bar and are always thinking either A) we dont know what we are doing with our character or B) are dpsing. Neither of which are true. It's purely the costly, poor efficiency heals. I don't mind so much that the direct heals are fast and small (although that really might need to be looked at), but the power cost needs to seriously be adjusted to compensate.It's way off kilter. </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by sorinev on <span class=date_text>10-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:34 AM</span>

[Lego]

Yeah I actually noticed this last night.  Although, I can't really tell if it was because I didn't have a chanter type grouped with me or not.  With no stuns and stifles on raid mobs I'm casting DH's pretty much constantly and that eats up your bar fast.

[Crono1321]

You are wrong about the power thing.  I play a warlock and a fury.  Druids with their "Vigor" line can buff their power WAYYY up.  Druids can solo buff their power up to 4k.  As a warlock with 300int I can still only get to around 3500. <div></div>

[Chrystl]

<DIV>I was in a mini raid last night, starter for Speak Like a Dragon.  Myself (52 Fury) and a 47 Mystic.  Either the Mystic wasn't doing much in healing, or he had much better power consumption.  I was well over 3/4ths drained by the time we finished.  The Mystic wasn't even at half power.   We easily beat the encounter, but had it dragged on much longer, I would have been out of power.  :smileysurprised:  I wouldn't mind better power use, but I also do understand that we are meant to be the fastest burst healers in the game. </DIV>

[Bjerde]

Not sure about the mana pool, Cleric is pretty low on the list there. I was grouped with a Warden 4 levels lower than me, and he had almost 1000 more power than me....equipped similarly. Not sure if Wardens/Furys are similar here, but I imagine they are close. As for mana usage, I noticed when I played my Fury after revamp I was out of mana way faster than before. I hardly ever run out of power with my Templar, much more efficient than before. I think this is because for the Templar the recast on the instant heals are so long (8 and 11 sec) that we just can't use them enough to run power low fast...except in long fights. With the Fury, you can spam those instants (and do) so you run out of power because you are casting more spells. I know this is needed to keep up with heals. In short, yes...mana consumption needs to be lower on the instant heals for the Fury. It is comparable to how bad the Defiler was in mana usage before revamp, wards would drop so fast and there was so much instant healing to be done, that the mana was just sucked up. If you didn't have a chanter in the grp it was tough to be main healer. They did fix this for the Defiler post-expansion. For now, get good drink and make friends with a bard or chanter : ) <div></div>

[Lego]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bjerde wrote:<BR>Not sure about the mana pool, Cleric is pretty low on the list there. I was grouped with a Warden 4 levels lower than me, and he had almost 1000 more power than me....equipped similarly. Not sure if Wardens/Furys are similar here, but I imagine they are close.<BR><BR>As for mana usage, I noticed when I played my Fury after revamp I was out of mana way faster than before. I hardly ever run out of power with my Templar, much more efficient than before. I think this is because for the Templar the recast on the instant heals are so long (8 and 11 sec) that we just can't use them enough to run power low fast...except in long fights.<BR>With the Fury, you can spam those instants (and do) so you run out of power because you are casting more spells. I know this is needed to keep up with heals.<BR><BR>In short, yes...mana consumption needs to be lower on the instant heals for the Fury.<BR><BR>It is comparable to how bad the Defiler was in mana usage before revamp, wards would drop so fast and there was so much instant healing to be done, that the mana was just sucked up. If you didn't have a chanter in the grp it was tough to be main healer. They did fix this for the Defiler post-expansion. For now, get good drink and make friends with a bard or chanter : )<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Agree.  But the problem doesn't seem to show up during regular grouping, at least for me it doesn't.  It's in a raid situation, and like you said, that is attributable to having to spam directs constantly to keep up with healing.<BR>

[darkshm]

<span><blockquote><hr>Crono1321 wrote:You are wrong about the power thing.  I play a warlock and a fury.  Druids with their "Vigor" line can buff their power WAYYY up.  Druids can solo buff their power up to 4k.  As a warlock with 300int I can still only get to around 3500. <div></div><hr></blockquote> Having a large power pool doesn't itself mean we have enough power, if we constantly spam small, inefficient direct heals we'll still run out of power quickly.  In my post-revamp raids I'm definitely running through my power faaaaaast as well, it's especially weird as before the revamp I almost always had more power left than other raid healers. On the other hand Sony did say that we were supposed to be "fast" healers, which we certainly are (especially with BitF).  We rule the world of spike damage until we run out of power entirely, meanwhile Wardens (are supposed) to rule the over-time uber-efficient healing world, it's a spectrum and it's likely unfair to want to be awesome in all situations - it may even turn out that raid healing works best if different healer types heal differently (maybe with Furies sticking to regen only the whole raid, and keeping the rest of their power ready for large damage spikes).  I dunno, haven't done nearly enough post-revamp raiding yet, just trying to make a point. We also have *awesome* group buffs, low on power or not.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[Crono1321]

You are right, the reason a Fury runs out of power so fast is because you can chain cast through all of your heals, and arch-heal definately is not mana-efficient.  The only thing I can say is ask to be put in the mage group with a troubador or chanter.  This way you'll have somewhere in the 5500 power range with the wizard, warlock, chanter power buffs, plus VIM, plus maxed out power regen.  You should be fine that way. I'd also like to say when I looked at my warlock the other day (level 57) he had 4300 power solo.  I grouped with my Warden friend and he had about 5200 power solo, I think this is because the warden version of VIM gives wis, not int.  However, Fury will still be relatively close to the 5000power range. <div></div>