SoW upgrade

[mikemcmodmi]

<DIV>So I just got the SoW upgrade to 45% run speed.  I went and checked what stacks and what doesn't stack with it.  I've checked pretty much everything there is.  Jboots stack, so while wearing jboots you get 55% run speed.  The other buff I found that stacks with it is the dirge buff harbringer's sonet.  With the combination of the 3 I got up to 61% run speed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Needless to say that made me very happy.... but there was something nagging me in the back of my head.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't understand why mystics get to upgrade their SoW to 50% with 5 points and we only get to upgrade ours to 45%.  It seems like it's that way for no reason.  I want to be fast like I was in T5 when sow, jboots, spirit totems of the wolf and those items that dropped in perma all stacked to about 80% run speed.  In that regard I'm really happy.  Why do they have to ruin the happiness this AA gives me by giving mystics more run speed for no reason!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So what it boils down to is I want 50% sow too.  Plain and simple, it's unfair that we get less run speed.  I don't just want to be fast, I want to not have an inferior SoW!</DIV>

[Goozman]

<P>its probably not much consolation, but if you do the droag scale collection, you get 10 pints of droag scale swill which is high power regen and 40% runspeed.</P> <P>that'll give you over 30 hours of 95% runspeed lolz, it's pretty funny. As for the mystic thing, yeah I agree... I don't understand it... druids should be faster than shamans w t f</P>

[MysidiaDrakkenbane]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Goozman wrote:<BR> <P>its probably not much consolation, but if you do the droag scale collection, you get 10 pints of droag scale swill which is high power regen and 40% runspeed.</P> <P>that'll give you over 30 hours of 95% runspeed lolz, it's pretty funny. As for the mystic thing, yeah I agree... I don't understand it... druids should be faster than shamans w t f</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I agree. But if I had to choose between my new SoW or my cure line, I'll choose my cure line any day of the week.

[Nexiia]

screw that, I'm goin RP'er. Saving Horses by not buying them and not promoting the use of animals as transportation!! SOW FOREVER!  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Crimson Dragon]

<div><blockquote><hr>MysidiaClash wrote:I agree. But if I had to choose between my new SoW or my cure line, I'll choose my cure line any day of the week.<hr></blockquote>the sad thing about our uber cure line is that mitigation buffs are screwed up and, well, after a point, <i>useless </i>right now.see threads in the combat discussion forum such as <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=118808" target=_blank>this </a>or <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=118941" target=_blank>this</a>.yes, i love the cures and i still plan to finish them off. but another 1% mitigation isn't going to do crap. might as well run fast.</div>

[Mon]

Ah but isnt there a silver lining to every cloud?  The mystic SoW booster only applies to speed, not duration.  So they sacrifice 15 minutes extra duration for that 5% more speed, me I will gladly run 5% slower for an additional 15 minutes duration.  Thats a 50% duration increase, and less often I have to recast the buff.  <div></div>

[Fromingo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Monal wrote:<BR>Ah but isnt there a silver lining to every cloud?  The mystic SoW booster only applies to speed, not duration.  So they sacrifice 15 minutes extra duration for that 5% more speed, me I will gladly run 5% slower for an additional 15 minutes duration.  Thats a 50% duration increase, and less often I have to recast the buff.  <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>well said

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>While I guess it's nice for if you're casting SoW on someone else to give extra duration, for myself I don't care.  It takes 2 seconds to cast SoW so the extra duration doesn't make too much of a difference.  I'd rather be at 50% run speed SoW then 45% anyday.  I want more speed dammit!</P> <P>I think it's messed up that I would have to ask a mystic for their better sow if I'm grouped with one.  It's spirit of the wolf, and we're the wolf priest.  It's not spirit of the bear.  I say give us the 50% sow.  I think the fact that they gave 2 different amounts is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in the first place.  Why would they do that?  This shouldn't even be an issue.  Give us 50% too like they should have in the first place because it's obviously just an oversight.</P> <P>About the droag swill drink.  I didn't have any to test out whether that stacks.  Good to hear it does.  How do you get that again?  Is it from a quest?  I'll be trying to get my hands on some if I can for the run speed.</P><p>Message Edited by mikemcmodmike on <span class=date_text>11-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:05 PM</span>

[Mon]

Well, my guess it is going to be an issue for only a very few people.  I personally like that they made them different, there is enough sameness in this game already.  I guess this is their attempt at diversity.  I think its a sad attempt, but you know, I can definitely understand why they are so tentative at it.  I am not trying to offend you with this, but just illustrating a point.  Your post is a prime example why so much of EQ2 is bland and lifeless.  If they diversify things too much people moan about imbalance, if they don't then people moan about the sameness (me).  I personally could do with a little imbalance.  Frankly, what I always wanted EQ2 to be was EQ1 with better graphics and a better UI.  I kinda enjoy that all classes can solo, some better than others of course, but I think in the pursuit of that equality they have made the game kind of lackluster.  I still enjoy it, but I never have anywhere near the extent I did the 5 years I played EQ1.  Heck, I didn't take my first break from EQ1 until it had been out for like 2 years.  In this game I have taken breaks like 4 times already.  It has it's strong points, but I think it's weak points are huge glaring holes.  Those holes are why WoW, which I dispise in every way, is soundly stomping it.Uh, this was about SoW right? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Anyway, like I stated before, I thank ____ that we get even this meager amount of diversity in this game.<div></div>

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>OK then.  Lets have diversity.  Change our SoW to 55% run speed and leave mystics at 50%.</P> <P>I played EQ as well.  Diversity was good but I think balance is better.  People who liked diversity all rolled warriors and clerics.  Tell rangers diversity was good.  I bet you didn't play a ranger did you?</P><p>Message Edited by mikemcmodmike on <span class=date_text>11-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:26 PM</span>

[Mon]

No, actually I didn't but that doesn't mean much.  I didn't play a warrior, shaman, mage, bard, or a lot of other classes either.  You see, the problem with balance is it is so unbelievably unrealistic.  It is even more unrealistic than a dragon.  I am going to commit an unholy sin and say that there is very little balance in real life, but in my opinion the balance people seek is boring.  Lack of balance is what makes things interesting. <div></div>

[Dragonreal]

<div><blockquote><hr>Monal wrote:Ah but isnt there a silver lining to every cloud?  The mystic SoW booster only applies to speed, not duration.  So they sacrifice 15 minutes extra duration for that 5% more speed, me I will gladly run 5% slower for an additional 15 minutes duration.  Thats a 50% duration increase, and less often I have to recast the buff.  <div></div><hr></blockquote>You forge tthat mystic sow adds safe fall as well so imo they don't trade 15 min duration for 5% runspeed.. they trade 15 min duration for x% of safe-fall; can I have my 5% runspeed now plz?</div>

[Bratface]

<div><blockquote><hr>Monal wrote:Ah but isnt there a silver lining to every cloud?  The mystic SoW booster only applies to speed, not duration.  So they sacrifice 15 minutes extra duration for that 5% more speed, me I will gladly run 5% slower for an additional 15 minutes duration.  Thats a 50% duration increase, and less often I have to recast the buff.  <div></div><hr></blockquote>Is it just me? Every time my group zones some or all of the group is back down to 20% runspeed, and I have to recast SoW again to give them the 45% again, so the duration is worthless to me, and with the mystic getting a safefall boost instead of the inrease in duration I think we got screwed, give us 50% and duration and let them have 50% and safefall and call it even, so long as our duration can actualy LAST through zoning because at this point its more of a hassle than a bonus imo.</div>

[Mon]

First I have heard that mystic sow adds safe fall, and if that is true is it part of their normal SoW spell or is it part of the AA speed boost?  I could have sworn I was browsing the AA list and didn't see any mention of a safe fall component.<div></div>

[mikemcmodmi]

<DIV>They get a safefall to their SoW.  I'm positive.  The reason you don't hear about it is because no one cares.  Just like no one cares about the extra duration on our SoW.  What people care about is the run speed. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mean, what if the AA only increased the duration of sow to 2 hours.  Would anyone pick the AA?  Hell no.  What people want is speed.  I know that's all I want.  I want 50% SoW and then find droag swill with the goal of trying to hit 100% run speed.  That's my goal. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyways, I /bug it daily <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I suggest more do the same.</DIV>

[Arielle Nightshade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mikemcmodmike wrote:<BR> <DIV>They get a safefall to their SoW.  I'm positive.  The reason you don't hear about it is because no one cares.  Just like no one cares about the extra duration on our SoW.  What people care about is the run speed. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mean, what if the AA only increased the duration of sow to 2 hours.  Would anyone pick the AA?  Hell no.  What people want is speed.  I know that's all I want.  I want 50% SoW and then find droag swill with the goal of trying to hit 100% run speed.  That's my goal. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyways, I /bug it daily <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I suggest more do the same.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Differing thought here.  I DO care about the duration.  When using the faster SoW in situations where we are running around pvping...trust me when I say having to SoW a group of 6 every 45 mins instead of every 15 (or was it 20...?  can't remember - all I know is it's a nightmare)....is a GOOD thing.    The extra duration of the spell is important there, and most helpful.   </P> <P>I'm trying it out now, to see how useful it is over cures...not sure which one I'm going to stay with, but for now am really liking that speed increase.  <BR></P>

[Spag]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mikemcmodmike wrote:<BR> <DIV>They get a safefall to their SoW.  I'm positive.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Its not safe fall, its a falling damage reduction.  35% IIRC.<BR>

[mikemcmodmi]

Well let me ask you this.  If you're grouped with a mystic with an upgraded SoW..... who's SoW are you going to use.  Yours or the mystics sow.  This tells ya what's really important about the spell.  It's a speed buff...  whatever gives the most speed will be used.

[Lunaya]

We want faster SoW ! We want faster SoW! We want faster SoW! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[stargazer5678]

<P>Well, from a strictly logical perpective Druids should run faster than Shamans. Why is it logical?</P> <P>1. Druids wear leather (light) armor but Shamans wear chain (medium) armor. Additional weight of chain armor slows down Shamans.</P> <P>2. Lions and Wolfes are faster than Bears.</P> <P>3. Druid are in general more aware of the terrain than Shamans. Druids can root/snare, Furies have Cheetah and can invis.</P> <P>4. When you think of a Druid and a Shaman which one gets more associated with speed?</P> <P> </P> <P>Leshii</P>

[Nexiia]

<P><STRONG><FONT color=#6633ff>Norrath , the land logic forgot.<BR>its like...area 51 ! only, the aliens wear robes and pull alot more aggro.</FONT></STRONG></P>

[Radigazt]

<P>I have a slightly different perspective.  I PvP almost 100% of the time.  I love the Warden 45% SoW.  My Fury used to be the group SoW'er because I didn't contribute as much buffwise as our Warden, so that was one way I could give back.  While I feel a little more guilty these days using my me-only 35% in-combat Fury speed buff, I absolutely love the more speed our group gets from the Warden 45% SoW, and our group's Warden feels even more needed.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </P> <P>Bottom line, the game is more enjoyable for me and my guildies at a higher speed, and increasing the SoW's means we don't need horses to get it.  I applaud the devs for all of the new speed boosts in the game (e.g. Warden's 45% SoW, Fury's 35% in-combat speed boost, Shaman's 50% SoW).  </P> <P>But, I think the speeds--or something--still needs a tad bit of tweaking.  Bards got royally shafted as one of their main buffs became obsolete.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I also agree that Druids (leather, wolf/lion, speed-oriented) shouldn't be slower than Shamans (chain, big bulky bear).  I think the Druid/Shaman thing could be corrected by making the Warden SoW 50% to 55%.  I think Bards need to be thrown a bone though.  If they're not going to be the speed-buffers, then they need something else IMHO.  </P> <P>These are minor tweaks.  All in all, I'm very very very happy the devs decided to add FUN AA's to the game.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Increasing runspeed from 20% to 45% is fun.  Thanks.  </P>

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>Hells yea.  I remember as soon as I saw we could upgrade SoW to 45% in beta I got really excited.  I was running around and really happy.  That was right up until I talked to a mystic with 50% sow.  It totally ruined my happiness.</P> <P>That's what I mean by the sow difference ruining my happiness.  I'm really happy and excited about getting this sow upgrade.  It made me really happy.  I don't know why they had to ruin the feeling by giving us an inferrior sow, for no freaken reason too.  I don't see why we should get an inferrior sow.  It just makes no sense unless it's an oversight.</P>

[Arielle Nightshade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mikemcmodmike wrote:<BR> <P>Hells yea.  I remember as soon as I saw we could upgrade SoW to 45% in beta I got really excited.  I was running around and really happy.  That was right up until I talked to a mystic with 50% sow.  It totally ruined my happiness.</P> <P>That's what I mean by the sow difference ruining my happiness.  I'm really happy and excited about getting this sow upgrade.  It made me really happy.  I don't know why they had to ruin the feeling by giving us an inferrior sow, for no freaken reason too.  I don't see why we should get an inferrior sow.  It just makes no sense unless it's an oversight.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I really can see both sides of the fence here.  Shamans (shamen?)  need some serious lubbin's AA wise.   The Dog as an AA platform really needs some looking into and beefing up (not to mention his run speed fixed so he's not 5 zones away when you need him).  </P> <P>That said, I don't see that run speed should be the bone (no pun intended) thrown to the Shaman class - it's a Druid thing, IMO.  I was surprised on my Defiler to get SoW at all - a nice little utility, but I don't expect that it should be upgradeable to really do anything.   </P> <P>Now, a dog that didn't die instantly (with a huge recast time), but every really good AA you have depends on him...would be very nice.  Maybe a "Fabled Dog Armor" or something...as a line you can choose?<BR></P>

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>The dog is overpowered.  Get the final ability in the str line and max out the ward amount on a successful attack.  There are 2 kinds of defilers.  Those that maxed the str line and outheal everyone else in raids and those that didn't and end up being beat by wardens.</P> <P>That being said mystics get their own stuff.  SoW I agree is a warden thing and we should have the superior buff if anything.  It's spirit of the wolf afterall.</P>

[sunyata39]

all this whining over 5% ???<div></div>

[Crimson Dragon]

yes!we're wardens, darn it!5% is our life. <span>:smileytongue:</span><div></div>

[Arielle Nightshade]

<DIV>YES!!  if 5% lets me catch up to that runner on the big ol' fancy horse and root their little pink behinds....I want that 5%!!  ((lol))</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[sunyata39]

i guess i should have known this was purely concerning pvp? i dont play on it so i guess im off in thinking its rare for a warden to be out alone chasing after a mystic. good times..?<div></div>

[Arielle Nightshade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> sunyata39 wrote:<BR>i guess i should have known this was purely concerning pvp? i dont play on it so i guess im off in thinking its rare for a warden to be out alone chasing after a mystic. good times..?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I guess I'm off in wondering why you decided to troll this thread and offer no constructive discussion to the topic...?   Good times ?<BR>

[mikemcmodmi]

I play PvE and I want the extra 5% dammit.  If you don't see the benefit to more speed then don't upgrade SoW.  I do and want it.  I want to be fast!

[Leemeg]

<DIV>Is it just me that don't care if Mystic gets 5% more speed? I'm happy with my 45% run speed buff, and if mystics gets 50%, that has absolute no effect on what I think about our buff. If you want 50% sow, then roll a mystic. And it is solved.</DIV>

[sunyata39]

Exactly. 45% is still about as fast and can be had earlier than even a bard. So what a mystic gets 50%. Don't furies still get 20%? Clerics get 0%. I don't recall about shaman but they have 0% or 20% (i think 20). Warden SoW was already more than doubled for just a few points, I did choose this too. It just seems stupid to get something good and then whine that someone gets the same thing just a little better. Maybe everyone else should also claim about not having SoW at all, or hey lookie there, druids also can port to EoF zones. Let's give Clerics and Shaman that ability too, right. Everyone should be equal! 50% SoW for all!!!!!/yawn.Get over yourselves?<div></div>

[Dragonreal]

it's the fact that there is no reason for theirs to be higher than ours.. it's not as if they're lacking a secondary beneift as well like our increased duration.. they also get reduced falling damage so why exactly are these not balanced if both classes are getting the main part of it (increased speed) and a secondary part of it? ntm I've seen a mystic post say that their AA says it's supposed to be 5% per rank adn it's actually giving 6%.. now I'm not saying it should be nerfed for them.. I'd rather they upped ours to 6% per rank and fixed both descriptions to reflect that.. but if they don't wanna do that then idk. Expect to see mystic AA get "nerfed" (aka fixed to give the appropriate increases).<div></div>

[Lunaya]

... hm...but I want 50% SoW <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />*cries*<div></div>

[mikemcmodmi]

<DIV>Sow isn't a mystic defining ability.  Saying I should roll a mystic for 50% sow is ridiculous.  At the end of the day both classes are paying the same AA points for a speed increase so the amount should be the same.  Any other opinion is just stupid.</DIV>

[Bratface]

The mystic AA sow upgrade is indeed giving 6% per rank instead of 5%, hopefully it will be "adjusted" soon.Have to love the trolls that come here and call us whiners, lets see how long it takes them to  scream if its made equal between mystics and wardens, or better yet give the mystics a slower sow /nodRace you to that shiny over there!!!Make it equal or make the druid have the better sow, it IS named for the "wolf" afterall, which is druid not shaman.....Don't feed the trolls, it just encourages them =p<div></div>

[El Conquistador]

Has anybody noticed what happens if you try to cast Warden SoW on top of a Mystic SoW?  Do you overwrite theirs, or get the 'would not take effect' message?

[Zammik]

<DIV>I've noticed I can't overwrite a 20% sow actually.  That sucks too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And yeah I want the 50% too. :p</DIV>

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>50% Sow!  I want it!  Zoooooooom!</P>

[Bratface]

Ok, seriously, am I the only one who is having this SoW drop to 20%?Both my Warden and my friends Mystic SoW drop randomly upon zoning, I am recasting this on at least one group member every time we zone and it got old after the first hundred times....<div></div>

[Asp728]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bratface wrote:<BR>Ok, seriously, am I the only one who is having this SoW drop to 20%?<BR><BR>Both my Warden and my friends Mystic SoW drop randomly upon zoning, I am recasting this on at least one group member every time we zone and it got old after the first hundred times....<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Your sig pic is great.</P> <P> </P> <P>I never knew 5% could mean so much to people.</P>

[mikemcmodmi]

It does.  I was sad when they nurfed all the run speed stacking back in the day.  Upgrading sow makes me happy, I love being fast.  It's fun!  More speed please!

[Crimson Dragon]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Asp728 wrote:<div></div><p>I never knew 5% could mean so much to people.</p><hr></blockquote>when you're talking about run speed it's all about having big numbers. 5% is a huge bonus. so yes, it is a big deal.really, i feel bad for bards, because they should be much faster than they are. <span>:smileysad:edited to add: if you were going to buy a horse and could choose between 40% or 48%.... which are you going to choose? is there really any question? this is just one more way in which wardens are being treated like poorly recycled mystics. tranquility anyone?</span></div><p>Message Edited by Crimson Dragon on <span class=date_text>12-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:41 AM</span>

[R]

<DIV>I'll chime in here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of all the AA's in our new tree, I've found this one to be the most useful from a PvP perspective.  There are a lot of really good ones out there, but I'd not sacrifice having this one for anything.  Throw on my JBoots while running and suddenly I'm at 55% speed (I actually usually just PvP with the boots on, but when playing PvE, I throw on my normal booties when we are at our destination).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That said, a group with a Mystic has the possiblity of outrunning my group.  I can accept that.  First,  pretty much only the Mystic will likely have that spell up.  The timer is too short and people just don't pay close enough attention.  Once that Mystic casts a heal, he's not running any faster than anyone else.  It's not really all that much of a bother.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I choose to run away, it's not often that I'm caught, especially since so many just LOVE their slow carpets.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, what's any of this have to do with the fact that Mystics get SOW at 5% higher?  Well, nothing.  I'm just stating that our SOW is very useful as it now stands.  The reason I'm not going to complain about Mystics and the 5% bonus has nothing to do with AAs, but rather with spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>MYSTICS CANNOT PORT.  With the extra SOW speed I have, in addition to my ports, I'm more than happy with my speed of travel.</DIV>

[Skivley101]

I think in another month or two nobody's gona care....cuz you would have found a better place to spend those pts.

[Fromingo]

<DIV>If you want to trade in your 5 different zone ports for 5% more SOW speed I'll back you.   Otherwise stop being so greedy and focus instead on fixing/making useful other AA's like Nature's Walk.  :smileywink:</DIV>

[Lunaya]

<div></div><div></div>Port spells are something the whole duid class gets automatically (sort of).Run speed we get for Achievement Points, which we first have to spend. So you can't compare. I would gladly sacrifice 50% duration for 5% speedAnd yes, I want 50% SoW <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Nachricht bearbeitet von Lunaya am <span class=date_text>12-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:49 AM</span>

[Antryg Mistrose]

Speaking as an up and coming dirge - why are bards left so far behind?  It was, if not a class defining feature, certainly one of the perks of grouping with a bard.  Now we have to buy a horse or be left in the dust.My personal opinion - SoW should have to be cast on each group mate (as it is), okay, okay should be  slightly faster than bards because of that, but should also have a relatively short duration.Ve are ze kings of speed !  (or used to be anyway)<div></div>

[Crimson Dragon]

my bard always runs at 50% speed.... /shrug<div></div>

[Arielle Nightshade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bratface wrote:<BR>Ok, seriously, am I the only one who is having this SoW drop to 20%?<BR><BR>Both my Warden and my friends Mystic SoW drop randomly upon zoning, I am recasting this on at least one group member every time we zone and it got old after the first hundred times....<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It's YOU ..U n00b!!!  </P> <P>Actually, interestingly...this is what used to happen with SoW initially. It was fixed around LU 7 or so (if memory serves).   It was a huge pain in the butt that we figured existed as incentive to work our guild up so we could all have horses (half joking).   Seems that this, like the pet run speed issue (that was once fixed, now is once again firmly entrenched)  just sort of popped up out of the coding woodwork.</P> <P>I have it happen too (the 20% Original SoW (tm) ).  In a PvP environment, I tell anyone without a decent run speed perma buff (horse, carpet, their own runspeed..w/e) that they have to buy SoW totems cause I am not going to stand around and SoW 6 people every...20 mins ( or whatever) plus whenever it decides to fall off while zoning or looking at it funny.</P> <P>It's rarely an issue with horses for everyone, but sometimes does crop up.<BR></P>

[mikemcmodmi]

<DIV>I somewhat agree about bard run speed.  Bards should be fast.... that being said at the game's release speed wasn't something that was just a bard thing.  SoW stacked with SoW totems and wardens were every bit as fast as bards.  They 'corrected' this which made me very sad.  No more wardens having super speed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If it's any consolation there's an advantage to having a bard in group.  Harbringer's speed or whatever it's called stacks with SoW.  While grouped with a dirge I got our regular speed plus another 6% from it.  So did the dirge so I made the dirge run even faster and our buff is 45 mins so the dirge was very happy after getting my buff.</DIV>

[Fromingo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lunaya wrote:<BR> Port spells are something the whole duid class gets automatically (sort of).<BR>Run speed we get for Achievement Points, which we first have to spend. So you can't compare. I would gladly sacrifice 50% duration for 5% speed<BR><BR>And yes, I want 50% SoW <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <P>Nachricht bearbeitet von Lunaya am <SPAN class=date_text>12-07-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>09:49 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> <FONT face="Tms Rmn"></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT face=Helv size=2></FONT> <P>The whole argument here is that Mystics get 5% faster SOW than Wardens. If you are going to complain that another class gets more than you then you should look at the whole picture. Mystics don't get ports, you do, so yes I can bring ports into the comparison. Also mystics get safefall but lets be real it's just offsetting their broken EB spell which causes them to take falling damage whenever they jump in some water, I really don't concider it much of a bonus.</P> <P>Wardens have an entire new spell line for doing nothing more than plucking a leaf off a bush yet some wardens complain that mystics run 5% faster. Seriously of all the classes that got hit with serious nerf bats during EOF, Wardens actually came out ahead. There's really no reason to expect anyone to think wardens are getting screwed somehow because their SoW can be 5% slower.</P> <P>I'm mostly happy with Warden class except I want broken things fixed. Like Natures Walk and if Nature's Walk isn't broken by SOE standards then it's worthless. Fix Nature's walk.</P><BR>

[mikemcmodmi]

<DIV>Dude, the point is we spend 5 points into upgrading Sow and mystics spend 5 points into upgrading sow.  Ours ends up at 45% SoW and mystics end up at 50% sow.  It's pretty obvious that this isn't right and is probably an oversight on the part of the devs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>About nature's walk.  Give up on it.  The description says most, but what that actually means is most player character knockbacks.  It's a buff for pvp, not for pve.  It doesn't work on a single knockback by an npc whatsoever.  Give up on it.  It probably never will and is only intended for pvp.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>About focusing on one thing.  I'm happy to hear you're concerned about nature's walk and want to get it fixed but believe it or not... devs can work on 2 things at once /gasp.  Yes they can do things like walk and chew gum at the same time.  Complaining about nature's walk has no bearing on SoW and fixing the SoW amount doesn't bar them from trying to fix nature's walk.  Even if you're not interested in getting SoW upgraded others are, so complaining about nature's walk on a SoW thread isn't going to make people care more about a pvp buff.</DIV>

[Lunaya]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>I really don't care about Nature's Walk since I hate PVP and I play on a PVE server only. And well, there are many things that need to be fixed.But I do a lot of questing and that means a whole lot of running from one point to another. I'm an absolute group (heals and buffs) warden, so it was kind of a sacrifice to put 5 points in SoW (it is nothing of great relevance for a group when it comes to a fight).I won't buy a horse, it would mean to lose my glide ability and spend 20p, which I don't have. Besides this spell is one of the reasons (of course not the only one) I chose to play my warden and enjoy playing her so much. We are the wolf healers and it is spirit of the wolf. It is a druid spell and it has ever been a druid spell. I can't even remember Mystics had this spell when the game was released, but okay, maybe I just did not pay enough attention. Nevertheless I was quite suprised when I heard that Mystics actually have a better version of SoW.And according to this thread<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=16&message.id=20742" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=16&message.id=20742</a>wardens feel a bit lost out. Furies get roots and teleport spells as well, their heals are nearly as strong as ours (plus they get a spell that gives a hot to all group members when a mob dies ) but they do a LOT more dps. With EoF they got a bunch of really good achivement abilities while Wardens have only a few that can be of use if you don't want to melee (and for melee they are lacking of str while Furies get an int buff for dps). With a few points spend a Fury can run up to 45% IN and OUTSIDE combat. We also can have 10% in combat running speed, but it doesn't stack with SoW, what makes it pretty useless. Racial benefits to speed do not stack either.So what is the point of giving us just 5% more speed like Mystics have? It won't hurt you, really. In return for that give Mystics some other cool abilities that fit their class better. I don't care. In addition I don't want Mystics to be nerfed, they can keep their 50% SoW, just give us the same amount of speed. I'm a girl from Germany so please excuse my poor English abilities, hope you can understand what I want to say anyway <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Nachricht bearbeitet von Lunaya am <span class=date_text>12-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:45 AM</span>

[Bumpfuzz]

<DIV>Technically, Spirit of the Wolf is more of a Shaman buff than a Druid buff, if you want to get into details.  Sure, you can say Wardens are the Wolf healer, but A) Mystics get wolf pets and B) In EQ1, Shamans actually received the SoW spell a full spell-tier earlier than Druids did.  So really, you can play it either way.  Just because we can turn into a wolf doen't mean everything that has "wolf" in the name of it has to be given to us, and superior to everyone else at that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When it comes down to it, 5% movement speed is negligible.  Get over it.</DIV>

[Zammik]

<DIV>I'm not sure why people keep bringing up ports into this thread.  It has nothing to do with SoW.  That's like saying well shaman get debuffs and we don't so stop complaining that you don't get ports.  One has nothing to do with the other.  Comparing SoW to SoW is a valid comparison.  The argument is that 15 minutes duration doesn't equal 5% more speed and 25% safefall.  We're only asking for the 5%, that's pretty reasonable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, only asking to fix the 'important' things is pretty silly as well.  That's a matter of opinion for one.  Some wardens including myself will not be taking Nature's Walk now or ever unless it starts to work on epics, which I highly doubt.  All issues should be fixed.  After all we pay them enough.</DIV>

[Bumpfuzz]

<DIV>Why do they keep bringing up Ports?  Because you can't take a SINGLE ability of two entire classes and come to the conclusion that something "needs" to be changed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>OMG MYSTICS GET WARDS, WE DONT!  Someone call the balance police!</DIV>

[Odio]

<P>J-boots make me run for 55% thats 5% faster than a mystic</P> <P>I also play on the pvp servers. So let them have there 5% because they dont run ifthey are rooted  and they will be beat up by me /flex as for you non pvp'r well you can save 20plat and your saveing money on leather too why are you still upset</P> <P>just my opinion</P> <P>~Odio</P> <P><Sabotage></P> <P>Venekor</P>

[Dragonreal]

<div><blockquote><hr>qik003 wrote:<div></div> <p>J-boots make me run for 55% thats 5% faster than a mystic</p> <p>I also play on the pvp servers. So let them have there 5% because they dont run ifthey are rooted  and they will be beat up by me /flex as for you non pvp'r well you can save 20plat and your saveing money on leather too why are you still upset</p> <p>just my opinion</p> <p>~Odio</p> <p><Sabotage></p> <p>Venekor</p><hr></blockquote>Didn't realize the jboots quest was restricted to druids only... =x</div>

[Odio]

<P>Yes Yes it is...:smileytongue:</P> <P>SoE's new set up </P> <P>lu32</P> <P>~Odio</P> <P><Sabotage></P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by qik003 on <span class=date_text>12-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:22 AM</span>

[Bratface]

<div><blockquote><hr>Radiohead316 wrote:<div>I'm not sure why people keep bringing up ports into this thread.  It has nothing to do with SoW.  That's like saying well shaman get debuffs and we don't so stop complaining that you don't get ports.  One has nothing to do with the other.  Comparing SoW to SoW is a valid comparison.  The argument is that 15 minutes duration doesn't equal 5% more speed and 25% safefall.  We're only asking for the 5%, that's pretty reasonable.</div> <div> <font color="#ff00ff">Because they have nothing in the realm of intellectual discourse to add to the topic so they are crasping at absurdity to support their position.</font><font color="#ff00ff"></font></div> <div>Also, only asking to fix the 'important' things is pretty silly as well.  That's a matter of opinion for one.  Some wardens including myself will not be taking Nature's Walk now or ever unless it starts to work on epics, which I highly doubt.  All issues should be fixed.  After all we pay them enough.<font color="#ff00ff"></font><font color="#ff00ff">I agree, I am SOOOO tired of people saying we should only complain about the "important" stuff, who says what is important? What is important to some is not important to others, bottom line is that they are our skills, they should ALL work correctly, saying we have to only expect a certain limit of correct functionality is beyond reason.</font></div><hr></blockquote>The thing that the trolls don't seem to understand is that all AA's should have equal value as much as possible, so when we get less for the same amount of AA"s then there is imbalance and thats not right, I don't want anyone nerfed, I want fairness.</div>

[mikemcmodmi]

Zooooom!  I want 50% SoW.  For those who want variety in the game then give us 55% SoW.  I want to be faster!

[Bratface]

<div><blockquote><hr>qik003 wrote:<div></div> <p>J-boots make me run for 55% thats 5% faster than a mystic</p> <p>I also play on the pvp servers. So let them have there 5% because they dont run ifthey are rooted  and they will be beat up by me /flex as for you non pvp'r well you can save 20plat and your saveing money on leather too why are you still upset</p> <p>just my opinion</p> <p>~Odio</p> <p><Sabotage></p> <p>Venekor</p><hr></blockquote>And my friends' mystic and my own quasi-retired mystic (70 Tailor alt) both run at 60% because they have their 50% SoW and J-Boots, so what is your point?All things being equal, all AA's should have equal value, what is so hard about grasping this concept?</div>

[Crimson Dragon]

<div><blockquote><hr>Bumpfuzzle wrote:<div>Technically, Spirit of the Wolf is more of a Shaman buff than a Druid buff, if you want to get into details.  Sure, you can say Wardens are the Wolf healer, but A) Mystics get wolf pets and B) In EQ1, Shamans actually received the SoW spell a full spell-tier earlier than Druids did.  So really, you can play it either way.  Just because we can turn into a wolf doen't mean everything that has "wolf" in the name of it has to be given to us, and superior to everyone else at that.</div> <div> </div> <div>When it comes down to it, 5% movement speed is negligible.  Get over it.</div><hr></blockquote>1. shamans are about spirits, druids are about animals.2. 5% movement speed is significant.</div>

[Lopan13]

Har Har... me'z nar been here fer bit... n lookie wut me'z see.... Joo guys sayin dat da mojo mans kin run fastah den us n dat nar really mattah... Da Faceless nar agree... Da balance nar dere, we'z lose 5% n it stick longah... dey gain 5% n make joo land softah Wut da blessed wardens see is dat da balance nar dere... we'z wardens all bout da balance in nature... fer dose dat say " 5% nar importants..." apply dat to sumtin else... if 5% nar important, den me'z wud like joo ta slice 5% of joo body n send it to Chingdai c/o 5% 'ers big bend freeport Halfies... me'z want joo ta send me'z 5% o joo family... so just send da lil wuns... dat fine.. in conclusion, halfies taste guud. <div></div>

[Ba]

<P>You're arguing over a measly +5% of OUT OF COMBAT run speed? Geez, you Warden doggies.... all that fur is getting in your brains *rolls eyes* ;P</P> <P>Give me the +35% (+45% with the wis line) IN COMBAT kitty Fury speed any day <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Helps avoid all those nastiessness chasing after preciousss...</P>

[Crimson Dragon]

<div><blockquote><hr>Lopan13 wrote:Har Har... me'z nar been here fer bit... n lookie wut me'z see.... Joo guys sayin dat da mojo mans kin run fastah den us n dat nar really mattah... Da Faceless nar agree... Da balance nar dere, we'z lose 5% n it stick longah... dey gain 5% n make joo land softah Wut da blessed wardens see is dat da balance nar dere... we'z wardens all bout da balance in nature... fer dose dat say " 5% nar importants..." apply dat to sumtin else... if 5% nar important, den me'z wud like joo ta slice 5% of joo body n send it to Chingdai c/o 5% 'ers big bend freeport Halfies... me'z want joo ta send me'z 5% o joo family... so just send da lil wuns... dat fine.. in conclusion, halfies taste guud. <div></div><hr></blockquote>see? our resident troll (and i'm not talking about a forum troll) says that we should get the 5%, therefore it is now law.we demand our 5%!let the warden crusades begin!</div>

[Radigazt]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lunaya wrote:<BR> I really don't care about Nature's Walk since I hate PVP and I play on a PVE server only. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Sorry, but you lost all credibility with this opening statement ... I didn't read any further, nor will I read your posts again.  PvP may not be your cup of tea, but don't use the "H" word.  If you're only concerned with PvE ... don't even evaluate the Movement AA's or Nature's Walk ... they were designed for PvP.  Stick to the cures line and worry about repetitive unintelligent AI monsters and their formulaic combat.  </P> <P>Obviously 5% movement speed makes a difference.  As someone earlier mentioned, the 8% speed difference between a 40% horse and a 48% horse is huge.  Just look at the costs ... that extra 8% is more than twice as expensive.  Personally, I think Shamen shouldn't get a SoW faster than 20%, but the devs made the decision and it's highly unlikely they'll pull it back, so the logical solution would be to boost Warden SoW AA's up to at least that of the Shamen ... if not more.  </P> <P>Then again, I think the Warden line that turns spells into combat arts should have the same recast timers as the spells had.  Pouring AA points into a line that makes your recast times SLOWER is counter-intuitive IMHO.  Couple that with the poor decision to make them mele-only 5 meter ranged attacks just doesn't fit the Warden class.  Perhaps it might make sense for a raiding Warden to slip in a combat art once in a while with a quick-cast attack ... but if you are a raiding Warden you've got much better places to put your AA's, and raiding Wardens aren't going to be in mele range.  Soloing Wardens need their attacks to recycle quicker, so they're not going to use it either.  .  I saw that as a PvP line ... but the ridiculously long recast times on those combat arts make them universally unappealing.  IMHO, the devs should 'fix' this line by leaving them with the original spell recast timers and spell ranges.  The only change should be the ability to cast on the move and a shorter casting timer.  Instead of making them combat arts, make them mobile-casting spells.  That has some use for raiders, soloists and especially the PvP'ers among us.  </P>

[T'Pol]

I agree those 5% do matter.I just dont see how a bear  or a purple cloudy ghost can run faster than a wolf.The SoW speed should be equal./bark and wagtail<div></div>

[Dragonreal]

the purple cloudy ghost CAN'T run faster than the wolf... unless of course he's riding the bear and I wouldn't be surprised if that was a rather appealing idea to those cloudy ghost-types out there.. =p<div></div>

[Bad]

<div><blockquote><hr>mikemcmodmike wrote:<div></div><div>About nature's walk.  Give up on it.  The description says most, but what that actually means is most player character knockbacks. </div><hr></blockquote>I completely agree about SoW.  And yes, this thread isn't the place to talk about nature's walk.But this statement is just ridiculous.  While nature's walk might only be worth it for pvp even after it does get fixed, that doesn't change the fact that it is obviously broken.</div>

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>What I mean is right now Nature's Walk works on a lot of pvp knockbacks.  It's possible that it's working as intended now.  I'm not sure how many it works on though, because I don't play pvp.</P> <P>50% SoW!  I want it now!</P>

[Odio]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bratface wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> qik003 wrote:<BR> <P>J-boots make me run for 55% thats 5% faster than a mystic</P> <P>I also play on the pvp servers. So let them have there 5% because they dont run ifthey are rooted  and they will be beat up by me /flex as for you non pvp'r well you can save 20plat and your saveing money on leather too why are you still upset</P> <P>just my opinion</P> <P>~Odio</P> <P><Sabotage></P> <P>Venekor</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>And my friends' mystic and my own quasi-retired mystic (70 Tailor alt) both run at 60% because they have their 50% SoW and J-Boots, so what is your point?<BR><BR>All things being equal, all AA's should have equal value, what is so hard about grasping this concept?<BR><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>WOW <BR> touchy mystics .... my point is be happy with what you have because you could always have nothing </P> <P>as for equal = boring </P> <P>that would be like a have a mage that can hit like a bruiser and heal like a templar and so on that means no need for a <insert toon here> to fill a raid/group slot<BR></P>

[susanjjacobs]

I may be wrong but isn't the shamman's SoW a shorter duration and have safe fall?

[mikemcmodmi]

Yup.  The mystic sow gives reduced falling damage and more speed.  Since this is our only good AA left it should be our top priority to get fixed ~

[Barand]

When the run buff become the most usefull ability we get i think there is an issue somewhere <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Mongowth]

Other than about two thing (maybe three, haven't decided on third one yet) that I can think of that are actually any use wasting AA points away into the EoF line.I was disgusted to see that our alter (fury) get a safe fall and reduction to falling damage in their new aa's. If it was just mystics and whoever else then maybe not so much an issue but what is our alter, gets it and we don't. That makes it a pretty BIG issue if you ask me!<div></div>I'm not after Fury's being nerfed (other than taking their root away as I think it makes them massively overpowered now!) as I think the class is a very nice balance. Our class needs some loving badly though. Issues that could have been addressed through the aa lines have been outright ignored.Funny as stated above, that the uproar atm is saving the ones we have atm that seem to actually be of any benefit. SoW... that is REALLY sad! In another post it's on the cures which are to become nerfed from any decent standing. <span>:smileymad:</span>

[Mon]

How, oh how, can this still be on the front page?  Are you guys that warped that 5 [Removed for Content] percent keeps you up at night.  Here, let me spell it out for you:Up till 45% Mystic and Warden SoW is the same.  After that 45% we get 45 min duration (an extra 15 min) and mystics get 35% falling damage reduction + 5% more speed.   I personally think WE got the better deal.  Its a design decision.  It is not a bug like some of you keep insisting on calling it.  No, I don't know this for sure, I am guessing.  I feel that given the evidence it is "working as intended" and I feel perfectly fine with it.  I am absolutely stunned that you people are THIS worked up over a 5% difference?  Oh yea, you guys sometimes mention the massive 35% falling damage reduction.  But it seems mostly you are up in arms, yes up in arms, over 5% speed difference. I just have to ask, are you people frigging kidding me?  Are you really that sad?<div></div>

[Mon]

<div><blockquote><hr>Mongowth wrote:<div></div>I'm not after Fury's being nerfed (other than taking their root away as I think it makes them massively overpowered now!) as I think the class is a very nice balance. <span></span><hr></blockquote>Wait a se.  Let me make sure I understand what you just said correctly, because my mind refuses to accept it.  You actually and truly just stated that having a one (1) single target root makes a fury <b>massively </b>overpowered?  I mean, really.  Massively?  I feel a huge smile coming over my face just thinking about that statement.  When I have a single target root and a group root that works pretty darn well.  Massively overpowered.  Haha.</div>

[Asp728]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Monal wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mongowth wrote:<BR><BR><BR> I'm not after Fury's being nerfed (other than taking their root away as I think it makes them massively overpowered now!) as I think the class is a very nice balance. <SPAN></SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Wait a se.  Let me make sure I understand what you just said correctly, because my mind refuses to accept it.  You actually and truly just stated that having a one (1) single target root makes a fury <B>massively </B>overpowered?  I mean, really.  Massively?  I feel a huge smile coming over my face just thinking about that statement.  When I have a single target root and a group root that works pretty darn well.  Massively overpowered.  Haha.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm glad a Warden posted this.   I was wondering how fury root was a factor in a discussion between Warden and Mystic SotW.  It's like it is somehow furies fault that Mystics get a faster SotW than Wardens.

[Mon]

<div><blockquote><hr>Asp728 wrote:<div></div>I'm glad a Warden posted this.   I was wondering how fury root was a factor in a discussion between Warden and Mystic SotW.  It's like it is somehow furies fault that Mystics get a faster SotW than Wardens.<hr></blockquote>Some people really just love to moan.  They will moan about anything.  They are often very creative in finding moanable topics.</div>

[Odio]

<P>MONAL!!!!</P> <P> </P> <P>/cheer all your post are the TRUTH</P> <P>that is all</P> <P>~Odio</P> <P><Sabotage></P> <P>venekor</P>

[Bratface]

<div><blockquote><hr>Monal wrote:How, oh how, can this still be on the front page?  Are you guys that warped that 5 [Removed for Content] percent keeps you up at night.  Here, let me spell it out for you:Up till 45% Mystic and Warden SoW is the same.  After that 45% we get 45 min duration (an extra 15 min) and mystics get 35% falling damage reduction + 5% more speed.   I personally think WE got the better deal.  Its a design decision.  It is not a bug like some of you keep insisting on calling it.  No, I don't know this for sure, I am guessing.  I feel that given the evidence it is "working as intended" and I feel perfectly fine with it.  I am absolutely stunned that you people are THIS worked up over a 5% difference?  Oh yea, you guys sometimes mention the massive 35% falling damage reduction.  But it seems mostly you are up in arms, yes up in arms, over 5% speed difference. I just have to ask, are you people frigging kidding me?  Are you really that sad?<div></div><hr></blockquote>If it doesn't matter to you then go away and have your peace of mind, honestly I will never know why people post to tell other people to not feel the way they do, people are different, if you can't handle that and let others think for themselves then leave it alone, you are not the priority police, nor do you have any right to tell anyone what should be important to them.Your posts here are only mant to hurt and insult people who care about something you don't see/feel the importance of, so keep it to yourself unless you can play nice.Thanks</div>

[Tuppen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bratface wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Monal wrote:<BR>How, oh how, can this still be on the front page?  Are you guys that warped that 5 [Removed for Content] percent keeps you up at night.  Here, let me spell it out for you:<BR><BR>Up till 45% Mystic and Warden SoW is the same.  After that 45% we get 45 min duration (an extra 15 min) and mystics get 35% falling damage reduction + 5% more speed.   I personally think WE got the better deal.  Its a design decision.  It is not a bug like some of you keep insisting on calling it.  No, I don't know this for sure, I am guessing.  I feel that given the evidence it is "working as intended" and I feel perfectly fine with it.  I am absolutely stunned that you people are THIS worked up over a 5% difference?  Oh yea, you guys sometimes mention the massive 35% falling damage reduction.  But it seems mostly you are up in arms, yes up in arms, over 5% speed difference. <BR><BR>I just have to ask, are you people frigging kidding me?  Are you really that sad?<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#ffff00>If it doesn't matter to you then go away and have your peace of mind, honestly I will never know why people post to tell other people to not feel the way they do, people are different, if you can't handle that and let others think for themselves then leave it alone, you are not the priority police, nor do you have any right to tell anyone what should be important to them.<BR><BR>Your posts here are only mant to hurt and insult people who care about something you don't see/feel the importance of, so keep it to yourself unless you can play nice.<BR></FONT><BR>Thanks<BR><BR><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>YAY Bratface!  You post the truth!</P> <P>:smileytongue:</P> <P>Honestly, I don't really care much about this issue, but it is important to some people. No one should downplay another person's cocnerns about his or her class. <BR></P><p>Message Edited by Tuppen on <span class=date_text>12-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:22 PM</span>

[Mon]

<div><blockquote><hr>Bratface wrote:<div>If it doesn't matter to you then go away and have your peace of mind, honestly I will never know why people post to tell other people to not feel the way they do, people are different, if you can't handle that and let others think for themselves then leave it alone, you are not the priority police, nor do you have any right to tell anyone what should be important to them.Your posts here are only mant to hurt and insult people who care about something you don't see/feel the importance of, so keep it to yourself unless you can play nice.Thanks</div><hr></blockquote>You misunderstand me!  I am not trying to tell these people not to feel the way they do.  I am just telling them that their opinions in this matter are ridiculous.  There is a really big difference.Never claimed to be the priority police.  But just as you have every right to make a huge ridiculous deal over a very trivial matter, I also have every right to state my opinion that you people are being wacko.  Think for yourself all you want, I heartily encourage the activity.   But, as this is a public  discussion forum, I am also going to feel free to interject my own opinion of your topic of discussion.  Sometimes I will feel obliged to concur.  Sometimes I will make fun of your wildly overblown concerns on a matter.  This is the nature of the internet.  Deal.</div>

[Mon]

<div><blockquote><hr>Tuppen wrote:<div></div> <div></div><p>Honestly, I don't really care much about this issue, but it is important to some people. No one should downplay another person's cocnerns about his or her class. </p><p>Message Edited by Tuppen on <span class="date_text">12-13-2006</span> <span class="time_text">01:22 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote></div>You really feel that no matter how crazy the concern no one should post their opinion of it?  There should be no scrutiny of publicly stated opinions?  Even when the concern is as wacko as this one?  Any old crazy opinion should only be followed by either silence or support, but no opposing opinion?  You do realize how that sounds I hope.  Down with free exchange of ideas, and of course the resultant negative response for ones deserving of them.  You, then, are the one being the policy police spoken of before.  You are saying what can and can not be said.  I support people saying whatever they want, and of course reaping what they sow as a result.

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>There's nothing ridiculous about wanting 50% sow.  All the arguments against us getting it are ridiculous in my eyes.  If mystics got 45% and we got 50% I'd support mystics in wanting to get their speed increased.</P> <P>It's bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] that their designing one class to be inferrior to another in something they do where all classes should be equal.  The point is supposed to be all classes do things differently but are equal.  I don't see equality here.  If we're supposed to be inferrior to another class in a buff we should have something else to compensate.  Mystics get slows, so we should get stronger buffs.  That's equality.  When it's mystics get faster sow and we get nothing in compensation then something's wrong.  SoW is the only good AA in the entire EoF tree we get after this coming update.  If our best AA is worse then another classes AA that's not even their best AA then something's seriously wrong.</P>

[Mon]

<div><blockquote><hr>mikemcmodmike wrote:<div></div> <p>There's nothing ridiculous about wanting 50% sow.  All the arguments against us getting it are ridiculous in my eyes.  If mystics got 45% and we got 50% I'd support mystics in wanting to get their speed increased.</p> <p>It's bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] that their designing one class to be inferrior to another in something they do where all classes should be equal.  The point is supposed to be all classes do things differently but are equal.  I don't see equality here.  If we're supposed to be inferrior to another class in a buff we should have something else to compensate.  Mystics get slows, so we should get stronger buffs.  That's equality.  When it's mystics get faster sow and we get nothing in compensation then something's wrong.  SoW is the only good AA in the entire EoF tree we get after this coming update.  If our best AA is worse then another classes AA that's not even their best AA then something's seriously wrong.</p><hr></blockquote>Please, oh please for the sake of all that is good in this world, keep your communism out of EQ2.  The game is dull enough without you "omg we all need to be equal" attitude.  The problem you don't really understand that your equality is an IMPOSSIBLE goal.  Yes, I am going to explain that to you.  You see, what YOU deem as equality I guarantee the person to your immediate left and right will find to be inequality.   You can not reach a goal like that when no two people will agree, in specific, what exactly it means.  Let me illustrate.  Your precious 5% is a great example.  You see, I feel Mystics got the short end of the stick.  I much, much prefer the extra 15 min duration to the 5% speed.  The falling damage stuff is flavor, I find it of no use.  I can't even remember the last time I fell and died unless I was running from my life and fell a distance that the buff on that SoW would have made no difference anyway.So, you see, your goal is unattainable.  Now maybe you can start worrying about something that actually matters to more than you and... a couple of your closest friends.  By the way, I am absolutely LOVING this conversation now.  I always love bickering about nonsense. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  (Disclaimer: Smiley included for flavor, I generally don't use the crazy little things.)</div>

[Mon]

Oh, and one other thing.  I was going to edit this into my other post but I wanted this to stand on its own.  What makes you think everyone is SUPPOSED to run at the same speed?  Other than bards I guess, since you haven't mentioned that they have been faster, far faster, than you since release.  (I don't know if this still is the case)  Do you have some kind of supersecret access to the "Declaration of EQ2 Mechanics" or the "10 Commandments of EQ2" that the rest of us dont?  The one where it states with clarity that all priests shall have the same speed SoW, or else?<div></div>

[Dragonreal]

<div></div>so you're saying mystics got 5% extra speed in place of our +15 min duration? so what are we getting in place of their 35% safe fall.. I kinda figured we got the duration increase instead of the safe fall.. strange that.  so if a "measly" 5% speed = 15 min duration I wonder what we could get in place of 35% safe fall.. dam we must really be missin outIf you don't give a crap about it, why in the hell does it bother you so much that others do give a crap about it? Ok we get the idea you think we're all a buncha [Removed for Content] cuz we care about something you feel is minor.. good for you now you've stated your opinion,. we've stated ours why are you still arguing trying to change our opinon of what's important to us?<div></div><p>Message Edited by Dragonrealms on <span class=date_text>12-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:56 PM</span>

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>You're right.  The game shouldn't have balance.  Things should be made purposely different for flavor purposes.</P> <P>Please change the mystic's sow to 40% and change ours to 50%.  It's spirit of the wolf and we're the wolf class with the wolf illusion and everything.  For flavor purposes ours should be the better SoW.  So reduce mystic sow so it's outright worse then ours and everyone should be happy according to your argument.</P>

[Mon]

<div><blockquote><hr>mikemcmodmike wrote:<div></div> <p>You're right.  The game shouldn't have balance.  Things should be made purposely different for flavor purposes.</p> <p>Please change the mystic's sow to 40% and change ours to 50%.  It's spirit of the wolf and we're the wolf class with the wolf illusion and everything.  For flavor purposes ours should be the better SoW.  So reduce mystic sow so it's outright worse then ours and everyone should be happy according to your argument.</p><hr></blockquote>You can usually tell when someone has either run out of arguments or is starting to see that their point was silly to begin with because they start exaggerating wildly trying to bolster their position. </div>

[mikemcmodmi]

Who's exaggerating.  I want the changes I brought up implemented.

[Bratface]

<div><blockquote><hr>Monal wrote:Oh, and one other thing.  I was going to edit this into my other post but I wanted this to stand on its own.  What makes you think everyone is SUPPOSED to run at the same speed?  Other than bards I guess, since you haven't mentioned that they have been faster, far faster, than you since release.  (I don't know if this still is the case)  Do you have some kind of supersecret access to the "Declaration of EQ2 Mechanics" or the "10 Commandments of EQ2" that the rest of us dont?  The one where it states with clarity that all priests shall have the same speed SoW, or else?<div></div><hr></blockquote>It's about getting the same benefit for cost of AA spending, we should get equal benefit for our AA points, if not then our lesser SoW should cost less, simple for intelligent people to understand.Why are you even here, you add NOTHING to the conversation, you add only disharmony and angst to a perfectly civil thread, I would thank you to go play outside or do something constructive until school is back in session and you are kept busy.</div>

[Mon]

<div><blockquote><hr>Dragonrealms wrote:<div></div>so you're saying mystics got 5% extra speed in place of our +15 min duration? so what are we getting in place of their 35% safe fall.. I kinda figured we got the duration increase instead of the safe fall.. strange that.  so if a "measly" 5% speed = 15 min duration I wonder what we could get in place of 35% safe fall.. dam we must really be missin outIf you don't give a crap about it, why in the hell does it bother you so much that others do give a crap about it? Ok we get the idea you think we're all a buncha [Removed for Content] cuz we care about something you feel is minor.. good for you now you've stated your opinion,. we've stated ours why are you still arguing trying to change our opinon of what's important to us?<div></div><p>Message Edited by Dragonrealms on <span class="date_text">12-13-2006</span> <span class="time_text">02:56 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>What makes you think everything has to counter on a 1 for 1 basis?  Isn't it just possible that we get the extra duration while Mistics get both the (in my opinion less than useful) 35% falling damage reduction + extra 5% speed?  And given that arguement, I will STILL take our extra duration, thanks.Why am I still here?  You caught me.  Guilty!  I am having fun at your expense.  No, it isn't nice, but hey the world isn't always nice.  I am not trying to convince you.  I never even considered the possibility to be frank.  I am just having fun poking at you.  You ever pick at a scab?  It hurts, but in a funny way it feels good to.  You are the scab.   Man, that came off sounding more like an insult than intended, but I like the analogy so I will keep it in.  </div>

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>It doesn't change the fact that SoW is seen as a druid buff.  Most people didn't even know SoW was given to mystics... it was probably given to mystics as an afterthought once it was designed for druids.</P> <P>SoW is associated with druids, not mystics.  End of story.  It's also spirit of the wolf, not spirit of the bear.  I don't even think mystics should have been allowed to upgrade SoW in the first place.  Since as it stands it's an AA for you guys then at least it should be inferrior.  Change your SoW to 40% tops and ours to 50%.  It only seems right since we don't want a game where everything's equal.  </P>

[jka]

<P>Why should wardens be the healer class with the less benefit or gain from any aa line which is giving to mutil healer classes? Justify to me why wardens should be the last on the list then I will care for the response of the one who is coming here and complaining about wardens views... Till then... dude respect the players rights to say what they feel. Anyone who has played the warden class for two years and been kicked and kicked... well I personally salute them for standing up for the class today. </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by jkamp on <span class=date_text>12-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:14 PM</span>

[Mon]

<div><blockquote><hr>mikemcmodmike wrote:<div></div> <p>It doesn't change the fact that SoW is seen as a druid buff.  Most people didn't even know SoW was given to mystics... it was probably given to mystics as an afterthought once it was designed for druids.</p> <p>SoW is associated with druids, not mystics.  End of story.  It's also spirit of the wolf, not spirit of the bear.  I don't even think mystics should have been allowed to upgrade SoW in the first place.  Since as it stands it's an AA for you guys then at least it should be inferrior.  Change your SoW to 40% tops and ours to 50%.  It only seems right since we don't want a game where everything's equal.  </p><hr></blockquote>You see, therein lies the rub.  Just because the unwashed masses believe something does not make a thing true.  I am pretty sure Shaman have had SoW since release just like Druids.  Also, as has been stated before Shaman and Druids both have always had SoW in EQ1 as well. So, what makes it a Druid buff exactly?  Just because you say so?  Just because the population believes it to be so?  So, as you can see (maybe?) it is not quite as "end of story" as you would like it to be.   You seem to be under the misconception that I am personally a shaman?  Just because I disagree with your statements I guess.  </div>

[Mon]

<div><blockquote><hr>jkamp wrote:<p>Why should wardens be the healer class with the less benefit or gain from any aa line which is giving to mutil healer classes? Justify to me why wardens should be the last on the list then I will care for the response of the one who is coming here and complaining about wardens views... Till then... dude respect the players rights to say what they feel. Anyone who has played the warden class for two years and been kicked and kicked... well I personally salute them for standing up for the class today. </p> <p>Message Edited by jkamp on <span class="date_text">12-13-2006</span> <span class="time_text">12:14 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Ok, I can see someone can't read.  If you will bring your eyes up a few posts, you can clearly see that I fully respect your right to say whatever you want.  By the same token, I respect my own right to also say what I want.  In otherwords,  you are welcome and encouraged to say anything.  Heck, if it pleases, feel free to insult me.  Call my mom names even.  I know the truth, and words cause me no harm.  I also feel free to respond to what you post in a public forum.  You see how that two way rights thing works right?  You have the right to whine, and I have the right to whine about your whining.  I hope we have sufficiently cleared that crazy little issue up.Now, as to your very very first point in the quoted section.  The problem is, you are assuming that the item in question is, indeed, a lesser benefit.  You see, there are those of us (now, granted, I COULD be the only one but I doubt it) that disagree with you.  I think I have stated adequately that the following equation is true:(45% SoW + 45min Duration) > (50% SoW + 35% Falling Damage Reduction + 30min Duration)Much like in real math the number of operations in an equation is less important than the final result.  To me, the final result is that WE are the ones with the greater benefit.  You can NOT state with finality that this is not true, because it is an opinion and thus unprovable either way.  YOU find the opposite to be true.  Sorry, I have nothing for that.  And finally here is my point.If you whackjobs get SoE to up the speed of our SoW a measly 5% and remove my beloved extra 15 min duration, I swear to whatever deity you hold dear that I will track you down and wedgie your frigging head off.</div>

[Scarrlette]

Everyone has the right to say what they want..as long as they stay within the guidelines of the forum rules of conduct.I strongly suggest that you all stop tossing around personal attacks or you might find yourselves without forum access. Ya'll know better than this.

[Mon]

<div><blockquote><hr>Scarrlette wrote:Everyone has the right to say what they want..as long as they stay within the guidelines of the forum rules of conduct.I strongly suggest that you all stop tossing around personal attacks or you might find yourselves without forum access. Ya'll know better than this.<hr></blockquote>Yes ma'am.  But they started it!Oh one thing I feel compelled to ask, since I tend to speak my mind more than is typically socially acceptible in this PC era, when you say "without forum access" do you mean lose the ability to post or the ability to read?  Posting on here is something I typically do for fun and I can take it or leave it but I do like to read it.  Now, I don't mean to say I am going to intentionaly say something to get spanked over, but eh, I am the kinda guy that if I feel something needs to be said, it gets said regardless of the consequences.  My wife says I am tactless.  I like to think of it as being blunt and up front with you.  No one ever wonders where they stand with me.  They always know.</div>

[Scarrlette]

<blockquote><hr>Monal wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Scarrlette wrote:Everyone has the right to say what they want..as long as they stay within the guidelines of the forum rules of conduct.I strongly suggest that you all stop tossing around personal attacks or you might find yourselves without forum access. Ya'll know better than this.<hr></blockquote>Yes ma'am.  But they started it!Oh one thing I feel compelled to ask, since I tend to speak my mind more than is typically socially acceptible in this PC era, when you say "without forum access" do you mean lose the ability to post or the ability to read?  Posting on here is something I typically do for fun and I can take it or leave it but I do like to read it.  Now, I don't mean to say I am going to intentionaly say something to get spanked over, but eh, I am the kinda guy that if I feel something needs to be said, it gets said regardless of the consequences.  My wife says I am tactless.  I like to think of it as being blunt and up front with you.  No one ever wonders where they stand with me.  They always know.</div><hr></blockquote>When one gets banned it means they may not post here anymore. But I do believe you may still read the forums.

[3cho]

<DIV>I think people need to take a step back here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>10%... it's 10% folks.  Barely discernable while running.  Shaman's are <STRONG>not</STRONG> going to fly by us like we're standing still.  Why do they get a slightly faster SoW and safe fall?  Druids have roots and much, MUCH better DPS, why not give it to them?  What difference does it make in combat when the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] buff is suspended anyway?  How does that 10% make or break our class enough for anyone to even break a sweat over it?  After all the bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] Wardens have had to put up with and suffered though... after all we've finally been able to achieve for ourselves post LU13, there's actually an argument about a 10% difference in speed buff?  Jesus [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing christ people.  Seriously.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Just because you have the right to post whatever you want, doesn't mean you are excused from using some god [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], good old fashioned common sense and judgment.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Focus on the Warden class.  Ask yourself, within the confinds of our class whether you feel we still have issues.  If you can do that, and truly illustrate why a run speed buff of 45% is so detrimental to our class that a Dev needs to be asked to change it, then that's they way it should be posted.  It should <STRONG>not</STRONG> be a "Oh look Shaman's can run faster, the game's not fair!" rant.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You're all adults.  Well most of your are adults.  Please read what I've said and think carefully about the power you have to make your voice heard.  Everything I've posted here is, as always, just my opinion.  I am not responding to any specific poster (for or against), but rather the warden community as a whole.</DIV> <P>EDIT: <P>Heh.  I probably wouldn't have posted if I had seen a mod intervene, but eh.</P><p>Message Edited by 3cho on <span class=date_text>12-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:03 PM</span>

[Mon]

<div><blockquote><hr>Scarrlette wrote:When one gets banned it means they may not post here anymore. But I do believe you may still read the forums.<hr></blockquote>One last question.  I really and truely am not trying to be difficult here.  So far as I can tell the only rule we have broken is the personal attack thing, and both sides have done it.  Me by calling them crazy and whackjobs and them by calling me stupid.  Here comes the question.  Is IMPLYING that someone is stupid but not directly calling them a [Removed for Content] against the rules?  For instance, saying:"You know, I think it is stupid beyond belief that anyone could be so darn concerned over 5% speed."Could be seen to be implying someone in the thread is stupid.  Yet, I have not personally attacked them.  Technically though, it is saying that the IDEA is stupid.  Is this against the rules?  Or do you have to directly attack the person for it to be breaking the rules.  A direct reference.  A greyish area comes to mind.  What if I say the following:"Anyone who gets so worked up over a 5% difference in running speed really, REALLY needs to seek some professional help and get away from this game for a little bit."In this context, I have not directly attacked anyone yet I have indirectly insulted their mental state.   I know you may think this response is just goading you, but I since the offense is bannable (which in the context of a forum could be considered a capital punishment, and for some people would absolutely ruin their lives... [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] there I go again) I really would like a little clarification on this issue.  </div>

[Bratface]

<div><blockquote><hr>Monal wrote:Ok, I can see someone can't read.  If you will bring your eyes up a few posts, you can clearly see that I fully respect your right to say whatever you want.  By the same token, I respect my own right to also say what I want.  In otherwords,  you are welcome and encouraged to say anything.  Heck, if it pleases, feel free to insult me.  Call my mom names even.  I know the truth, and words cause me no harm.  I also feel free to respond to what you post in a public forum.  You see how that two way rights thing works right?  You have the right to whine, and I have the right to whine about your whining.  I hope we have sufficiently cleared that crazy little issue up.<div>Now, as to your very very first point in the quoted section.  The problem is, you are assuming that the item in question is, indeed, a lesser benefit.  You see, there are those of us (now, granted, I COULD be the only one but I doubt it) that disagree with you.  I think I have stated adequately that the following equation is true:(45% SoW + 45min Duration) > (50% SoW + 35% Falling Damage Reduction + 30min Duration)Much like in real math the number of operations in an equation is less important than the final result.  To me, the final result is that WE are the ones with the greater benefit.  You can NOT state with finality that this is not true, because it is an opinion and thus unprovable either way.  YOU find the opposite to be true.  Sorry, I have nothing for that.  And finally here is my point.If you whackjobs get SoE to up the speed of our SoW a measly 5% and remove my beloved extra 15 min duration, I swear to whatever deity you hold dear that I will track you down and wedgie your frigging head off.</div><hr></blockquote>No one cares if you think that the 54% is enough, really, no one cares, so why do you care if we think it isn't? You are worried that they will shorten the duration? OH PLEASE! You had to work that out of the bottom of the bag of excuses for your behavior, if you really cared you would be posting for them to FIX IT so it doesn't drop   to regular speed when zoning, so what use is the added duration to anyone? It means nothing to me, I am recasting this buff  all day long every day, the added duration is broken and you come here and complain that they will take it away from you? That is a very very far leap into twisted logic... one has nothing to do with the other.Everyone is entitled to feel how they feel about the issue, but I have yet to see a post by you that didn't include name-calling and insults, you have run the spectrum from mildly insulting to totally vulgar, then moved on to insinuated threats, WOW, just WOW....Your opinion is just that, yours, it doesn't give you any right to call names or insult people, it doesn't make you right when you throw dirt at others, it only digs your own hole deeper and deeper until you are so far down in the dirt that no one can hear you anymore...I don't see any reason that you cannot make your point, if you have one, and your opinion known without having to resort to insults and maligning words, language is a wonderful thing if you have a proper command of it.So please, have your own opinion but stop calling names and insulting people, remember, he who throws dirt soon has no ground left to stand on.Or are you going to pick up that shovel and make it worse?Peace!</div>

[Mon]

Ok, so Scarrlette met me in a dark ally and beat me to a bloody pulp so I am going to make one final post on this thread and vamoose so I don't make her mad enough to kill me next time.I may not have been clear before in all my having fun so here it is, laid bare for the world to see.  My concern in this issue.They will not up our SoW that extra 5% without countering it.  If they do it at all.  What they will do is make a change somewhere, and the only logical place is to reduce the duration.  This duration is what I like.  My fear, the one that keeps me up at night and causes night terrors,  is that you fine and wonderful, though somewhat misguided, folks will cause the fine and wonderful folks at Sony to, in an attempt to make you great folks happy, increase our SoW that magic 5% but then, in the aformentioned countering move, reduce the duration.  I say no!  No to this dispicable plan.How was that? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  <div></div>

[Mon]

<div><blockquote><hr>Bratface wrote:<div>No one cares if you think that the 54% is enough, really, no one cares, so why do you care if we think it isn't? You are worried that they will shorten the duration? OH PLEASE! You had to work that out of the bottom of the bag of excuses for your behavior, if you really cared you would be posting for them to FIX IT so it doesn't drop   to regular speed when zoning, so what use is the added duration to anyone? It means nothing to me, I am recasting this buff  all day long every day, the added duration is broken and you come here and complain that they will take it away from you? That is a very very far leap into twisted logic... one has nothing to do with the other.Everyone is entitled to feel how they feel about the issue, but I have yet to see a post by you that didn't include name-calling and insults, you have run the spectrum from mildly insulting to totally vulgar, then moved on to insinuated threats, WOW, just WOW....Your opinion is just that, yours, it doesn't give you any right to call names or insult people, it doesn't make you right when you throw dirt at others, it only digs your own hole deeper and deeper until you are so far down in the dirt that no one can hear you anymore...I don't see any reason that you cannot make your point, if you have one, and your opinion known without having to resort to insults and maligning words, language is a wonderful thing if you have a proper command of it.So please, have your own opinion but stop calling names and insulting people, remember, he who throws dirt soon has no ground left to stand on.Or are you going to pick up that shovel and make it worse?Peace!</div><hr></blockquote>Oh get off your high horse.  I never feel the need to justify my actions.  They are what they are, if you don't like them it is your problem. Yea, I can be insulting.  Don't like it?  Try to be a little less sensitive or don't read my responses.  I have not once been vulgar.   Where is this "hole" you speak of?  Insinuated threats?  Please guy, get a grip on reality.  If you even remotely viewed that as a threat, you probably should not be socializing with real actual people.   I really feel that you have massively overstated the situation here.  In fact, it was hilarious to read your raving.  It was such a drama queen response.   :/  Yea, Im gonna get banned for this one for sure but, eh, It had to be addressed.</div>

[Scarrlette]

Am I invisible today? *taps the mic* Is this thing on?Locked for not getting back on track and letting the personal crap go.