Warden & Fury = not enough differences

[VladisSar]

<DIV>Does anyoen else have the feeling that Fury and Warden are way to simular to be 2 distinct classes?</DIV> <DIV>Oh yes - i do know they are different, and even knwo how down to the last spell, but in the essence, they are near identical nature oriented healers, with just not ENOUGH distinction to call them different classes. It is posible that many player find that one of the classes suits them better than another for THEIR style of play, but at the end, the difference between Fury and Warden is far less than say Warden and Necro.</DIV> <DIV>Wouldn't classes be better of if differences woudl be far more distinct?</DIV> <DIV>Even better, in my view, the ultimate solution would be only to have a BASE druid class and then allow each player to hand pick specific perks per level avail to both classes, rather than to have 2 rigid classes which are fixed in how the spells and abilities are spread between them. Kind of like a skill tree system, wher a druid starts at a button and go up one or few branches pickign up abilities as he/she seem fit for own style.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a side thought, i am thinkign they realy should have at least made one of the druids a pet class - allowing to summon variety of animals as permanent pets, while the other woudl remain a pet less caster. I am thinking, Fury woudl eb remained petless and get some more of the spell power, while Warden would become an animal master class (eq1 beastlords anyone? i realy miss them.) The excat names of the classes are nto realy relevant here, whats important is geting a nature loving based pet class, alogn with ability for STRONG animal charm abilities.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS. I have posted simular message on the Fury board.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[FlamingDuck]

I agree, I'd love druids to get some animal charms from the get go. Instead we have to get them through AAs, and apparently they aren't that good anyway?  Right now the differences between Warden are Fury are so little compared to other classes they as well as just roll both classes into one. Oh wow, Wardens get wolf form and Furies get lion form...and wardens are a little more defensive and furies a little more offensive. There needs to be much more distinctiveness between the two.

[Nezumigami]

<P>I also feel the classes are quite similar. Sure we get roots, a big ole tree, some doggies and evac. Still these really don't stand out as much to make the classes feel as different as say a shadowknight and a templar, or perhaps even a swashie and brigand. The more I group with furies the closer I feel the two classes rellay are to each other. On top of that Warden itemization (furies as well but they dont need int as much as us). Heck we even have the same scalped ewok hats as the shammies.  I am however looking forward to the AA's in EoF, and hoping that they will add better tiemization as well. </P> <P>One thing I think that would be great would be to add mroe synergy between healers of the same archtype. As it stands now you are always better off with 2 different types of healers than you are with two types of the same healer, since heals get wasted and overwritten. This is true with almost no other class type. Two,three or even four necros still add to a group or raid in their damage. Troubs and Driges each beuff/debuff in ways that make having two in a group, while not the most desirable thing, better than having two similar healers would be. No idea really how to implement this yet , but would be nice to see having two druids in a  group actually be a good thing.</P>

[FuzzBall]

<div></div>Sure plenty of differences.Furys can out DPS a Warden two fold.Wardens can out heal a fury by the tiniest of fractions.Furys bring great group DPS combat buffs and mit gain in Urchin, Wardens bring none. So much for the Warden being a defensive healer when the Furies get the biggest def spell in the archtypeIn a raid, Wardens debuff roots are useless whereas the Furies "other" spells are awesome (anyone for Urchin)All in all, Furies have so much more to offer over a Warden since LU13, it plain blows....<div></div><p>Message Edited by FuzzBall on <span class=date_text>10-31-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:15 AM</span>

[Chay]

When EQ2 came out my understanding was that Wardens would be the "Defensive" Druid and the Furies would be the "Offensive" Druid. That's not the case, and seems to become more and more skewed towards Furies being the more "capable" of the two. Though I prefer our heals to the Furies (just me I guess).Personally I'd rather have a single Druid class (Warden is not a good term anyway since we don't really "ward" lol) where you choose options as you level. Of course the problem with any tree based progression is after a while it becomes clear that not all paths are created equal (AA anyone?). Sadly I don't think Druids are the only class that don't have equal abilities in the subclasses (Illusionist/Coercer, Monk/Bruiser come to mind). <div></div>

[tass]

<blockquote><hr>FuzzBall wrote:<div></div>Sure plenty of differences.Furys can out DPS a Warden two fold.Wardens can out heal a fury by the tiniest of fractions.Furys bring great group DPS combat buffs and mit gain in Urchin, Wardens bring none. So much for the Warden being a defensive healer when the Furies get the biggest def spell in the archtypeIn a raid, Wardens debuff roots are useless whereas the Furies "other" spells are awesome (anyone for Urchin)All in all, Furies have so much more to offer over a Warden since LU13, it plain blows....<div></div><p>Message Edited by FuzzBall on <span class="date_text">10-31-2006</span> <span class="time_text">05:15 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Actually id have to disagree. For 1 I'll claim any day that I can woop a furies [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] at healing hands down while watching tv casually clicking a button or 2. As for buffs wardens get a buff that increases the power and wisdom of an ally which helps out a secondary healers greatly. A buff that raises the offencive skills of a grpmate, A healing buff that procs when an ally takes dmg. (love that 1 for the mt) Grp buff that increases elemental resistance, Another grp buff that increases elemental resistance and the health pool.Grp buff that increases the agility and wisdom of the grp.Grp buff that increases the mig of the grp vs phisical and magical dmgAn ally spell that increases power regen, increased power pool and agility increase.And a grp buff that increases defence. Theres a couple other spells that go for the warden only for mig vs phisical dmg and such but were talking grp buffs here.Top that off that the warden gets a root instead of a slow spell for soloing And can out heal a fury any day and I say I'll choose a warden always. The hell with dmg, if I wanted to dps something and heal id log on my conjurer. I chose a warden for the buffs and heals and dam it thats what I got.<div></div>

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>Do you even know what furies buff?  They buff those same things you just described.  Plus no you can't outheal a fury while not paying attention.  We're stronger healers then furies but the difference isn't that much.</P> <P>Since our defensive buffs are weak, I think maybe merging would be OK.  If we had stronger defensive buffs I'd be against it but at the end of the day we aren't different enough defensively to make a difference.</P>

[Leemeg]

<DIV>I have played a Fury up to about 30+, and a Warden up to 70. I would agree that there is not much different in the two classes, but at the same time I do like the Warden alot better than the Fury (that's why I have reached lvl70 at the warden). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The difference is there, but I do feel that they should have made the looks different. Most of the spells animations looks quite equal, the specific armour is quite equal, etc.. It is almost not possible to spot the difference between a Fury and a Warden just on the looks. You need to see either the buffs and if the heals has a hot part on it or not. They could have done alot more in that appartment.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It sounds like a nice idea if you could choose freely specific perks per level, but I would say that it had been almost impossible to balance off. And we would have a limit type of choices that would work well, and we would end up with only 1 druid class. I don't see that anyone of us would like that too much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I doubt the OP wanted to discuss which class is better than the other, just the difference or lack of difference.</DIV>

[Amitee]

I was seriously thinking about making a Fury (have a 70 warden atm) when the fae's came out.  But after scrubbing back and forth on the forums, I came to the conclusion that yes, the two classes have their differences, but they are pretty similar.  They are maybe too balanced in alot of ways with the warden getting kudos for roots/evac and very power efficient spells.  Bascially I could punt spells and abilities back and forth all day between a fury/warden until my head is spinning around.  I finally decided to just make a mystic when faes come out....  saves me the frustration of batting all that back and forth between fury/warden.... <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>Ya, they are similar or can be made very similar thru AA's and equipment.<div></div>

[Bong_water]

<blockquote><hr>FuzzBall wrote:<div></div>Sure plenty of differences.Furys can out DPS a Warden two fold.Wardens can out heal a fury by the tiniest of fractions.Furys bring great group DPS combat buffs and mit gain in Urchin, Wardens bring none. So much for the Warden being a defensive healer when the Furies get the biggest def spell in the archtypeIn a raid, Wardens debuff roots are useless whereas the Furies "other" spells are awesome (anyone for Urchin)All in all, Furies have so much more to offer over a Warden since LU13, it plain blows....<div></div><p>Message Edited by FuzzBall on <span class="date_text">10-31-2006</span> <span class="time_text">05:15 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>sounds like you dont know what your talking about. Ive never seen a fury out anything me..<div></div>

[FuzzBall]

<div><blockquote><hr>Bong_water wrote:<blockquote><hr>FuzzBall wrote:<div></div><hr></blockquote>sounds like you dont know what your talking about. Ive never seen a fury out anything me..<div></div><hr></blockquote>Sounds like youve never seen a fury....</div>

[Nezumigami]

<div><blockquote><hr>FuzzBall wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Bong_water wrote:<blockquote><hr>FuzzBall wrote:<div></div><hr></blockquote>sounds like you dont know what your talking about. Ive never seen a fury out anything me..<div></div><hr></blockquote>Sounds like youve never seen a fury....</div><hr></blockquote>i saw one once, and I ain't lion!<span>:smileywink:</span></div>

[FuzzBall]

<div><blockquote><hr>Nezumigami wrote:I saw one once, and I ain't lion!<span>:smileywink:</span><hr></blockquote>Oh nice <span>:smileyhappy:</span></div>

[VladisSar]

<P>What I personaly like to see, is having Fury and Warden merged into a single class, and create a totaly DIFFERENT druid healer, which in my opinion would be awsome if they make him a beastlord like druid: a strong healer but with pernamnet pet for melee fights and dps instead of nukes/dots. Animal charms would also be great.</P>

[FlamingDuck]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> VladisSar wrote:<BR> <P>What I personaly like to see, is having Fury and Warden merged into a single class, and create a totaly DIFFERENT druid healer, which in my opinion would be awsome if they make him a beastlord like druid: a strong healer but with pernamnet pet for melee fights and dps instead of nukes/dots. Animal charms would also be great.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I'd love to see that too, but I can forsee the balance problems. And I'm betting they'd be so overpowered everyone would roll one and the game would be majorly screwed up. I'd rather they our token animal form, lion and wolf, be improved and made a bit more powerful. <BR>

[VladisSar]

<P>well mayby true pet class + true healer heals are a bit to much to ask for (oh mayby if they tune donw pet and heals just enough to balance each other it may work)</P> <P>but them mayby the new class can be a stronger shapeshifter? stealing WoW druid idea - druid shapeshifts into a different animal don't just gets buffed, but gets buffed by ALOT. If you know how it works in WoW: druid in bear form can substitute a tank, in cat form a scout. Of course druids never achives the tanking or dps of true tank/scout class.</P>

[FlamingDuck]

<P> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> VladisSar wrote:<BR> <P>well mayby true pet class + true healer heals are a bit to much to ask for (oh mayby if they tune donw pet and heals just enough to balance each other it may work)</P> <P>but them mayby the new class can be a stronger shapeshifter? stealing WoW druid idea - druid shapeshifts into a different animal don't just gets buffed, but gets buffed by ALOT. If you know how it works in WoW: druid in bear form can substitute a tank, in cat form a scout. Of course druids never achives the tanking or dps of true tank/scout class.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yeah I liked shapeshifter oriented druid from WoW as well. However, look at the problems WoW have this kind of druid. The druid's ability as a fighter or a rogue is not appreciated in raids and groups because they're considered not as effective as the real thing. Lots of people think "why bother getting a druid to tank or dps when I can just get a real rogue or warrior to do it?" They have the same problem with healers as well - there aren't enough of them and are loads of people playing the more fun dps classes. So essentially the druid would be forced to do nothing but heal anyway. </P><p>Message Edited by FlamingDuck on <span class=date_text>11-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:12 PM</span>

[VladisSar]

<P>well during a raid or a hard heroic groups - yes, you right.</P> <P>but in solo, or in casual grouping/duos/trios when no tank or no dps is avail and group allreday has another healer - why not?</P> <P>Thought personaly i still like animal pet/charm animal line better, rtaher than go as shapeshift as main specilization</P>

[FuzzBall]

If you put to the side the one issue that a marger would have, that they would botch it so bad, it would make us ever more useless, you have to look at other class mergers.Temp/Inq, not a problem, defiler/mystic, not a problem (other than class vs home city)Monk/bruiser, not a problem but then you get to assassin/ranger...  Having seen a ranger betray to as assassin, get pi**ed off with having to be positional all the time in raids and the betraying back, I dont see how they could be merged...  assassin/rogue... well, soe nerfed the s**t out of the rogue dps, where would an assassin fit in there?Lets just face the fact that SoE really have it in for wardens<div></div>

[Arielle Nightshade]

<DIV>In order to make everyone happy, you have to homogenize everything into sameness so no one class is better than another.    Does this look familiar?  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also have a 70 Warden, 30 Fury...the reason I never played the Fury further than 30 was because I didn't like the class as well as Warden.   I have a 60 Templar that has stayed on the shelf since PvP went live - same reason - I like Warden better. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I now have a 70 Defiler that I do like a lot, but not as much as Warden.  I basically play this character now at the request of guildmates and friends - to help out in situations where it is advantageous to have this class healing.  Not because I like it.  Warden, for all our frailities is still the most interesting of the healers that I've played (haven't ever tryed a mystic or inquis..but I think I'd still have the same opinion).   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't parse, chart, or otherwise crunch numbers..I'm like an art dilettante.  I know what I like.   Warden has several glaring weaknesses left over from LU13 that STILL have not been fixed, but overall is a class that is fun for the average player (ie, me).  When you start pushing the class into high end raiding, or into uber l337 PvP is when any class will start straining at their seams.  Look at any board on these forums and you will not see one class with a thread that says how uber, fun, and excellent their classes are.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My 2 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[frostbane]

<DIV>In my mind furies and wardens are different enough!  I've never been on a raid where they wanted me in the DPS group and the fury in the MT group!  Fury's have lots of perks but so do wardens, at the end of the raid i will have outhealed most everyone on raid, and done a sizeable chunk of damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On PVP you won't see me laying dead very often at all, and when people run into me they usually end up dead, and i don't know many furies who can claim that so meh!</DIV>

[Kaku99]

<DIV>I play a 70 warden.  I have also played a fury to level 30.  There are a lot of similarities.  The biggest difference between wardens and furies is damage output.  It is difficult to overcome the furies intelligence buff advantage.  It doesn't help that SOE has itemized the warden/fury armor to favor furies (far more wisdom than intelligence overall).  This faulty itemization slants the playing field in favor of furies even more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree with the poster who suggested wardens get charm as an ability without the need to pursure an AA line.  The name "warden" implies that they are animal trainers.  "Fury" is more attuned to elelmental storms - hence the additional damage (intelligence buffs) and AOE capabilities furies possess.   One way to compensate wardens for this would be to reduce the timer on Nature's Ally to allow us to cast it as frequently as furies can cast their big nukes.  Our special attack is single target unlike Ring of Fire and does a very limited amount of damage so it is isn't likely to upset the precious balance SOE strives to attain.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kaku99 on <span class=date_text>11-02-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:02 AM</span>

[OldBlueDragon]

I have both a 70 warden and a 40 fury (well, he's almost 40!) and I see plenty of difference between the classes. It is always tougher for me to keep a tank healed with my fury then it is with the warden and in fact, I don't find the warden's damage output that much worse than the fury's. I find it fundamentally important that because the casting cycle is shorter on warden nukes, even though the fury hits for more damage, the warden casts more often. I think this makes the warden more potent in terms of overall damage. Yeah both can heal and both can nuke but when you factor in roots, the dog pack and the tree along with the shorter recycle on spells, my preference tips in favor of the warden. I tend to play my fury only when guildies need a healer in that lvl range and would much rather play my warden. <div></div>

[stargazer5678]

<P>70 Warden and 60 Fury here. I think there are many differences.</P> <P>1. Fury has regens and direct heals. All of Wardens heals are regens.</P> <P>2. If you calculate all the healing done Warden is more effecient and comes out on top but at the expense of difficult times while healing spike damage.</P> <P>3. Fury's DPS is more AOE oriented and Warden's is more single target oriented. Starnova line of Fury does noticeable more damage than Warden's AOE and has almost the same cast and recast. Furies get fire pet (aoe), Wardens get pack of wolfes. etc.</P> <P>4. Wardens get a nice mitigation buff, one of the reasons I like my Warden better. (not sure how EOF will change this..). Furies tend to get more avoidance and HP and some health regen.</P> <P>5. Utility is different. Fury gets group invis, pact of cheetah and fae fire. Wardens get evac and root and sandstorm.</P> <P>6. Fury have more variety in type of DPS spells. They have heat, magic, mental and cold damage spells I believe. Wardens get heat and cold only (not counting the wolfes).</P> <P>I also believe that ancient spells are very very different between the 2 classes and ephasize their strengths. Hybernation, fire pet, storm of whatever (T7) and BITF of fury if great for spike damage and aoe damage for Fury. The tree, tranquility, pack of wolfes for efficient healing and single target damage for Wardens..</P> <P>Leshii</P>

[Dallun]

<blockquote><hr>stargazer5678 wrote:<div></div> ....... <p>I also believe that ancient spells are very very different between the 2 classes and ephasize their strengths. Hybernation, fire pet, storm of whatever (T7) and BITF of fury if great for spike damage and aoe damage for Fury. The tree, tranquility, pack of wolfes for efficient healing and <strike>single target damage</strike> for Wardens..</p> <p>Leshii</p><hr></blockquote> Actually its a group Anti death for Wardens, not a damage spell Dallun 70 Warden Antonia Bayle<div></div>

[Dragonreal]

<div><blockquote><hr>Dallun wrote:<blockquote><hr>stargazer5678 wrote:<div></div> ....... <p>I also believe that ancient spells are very very different between the 2 classes and ephasize their strengths. Hybernation, fire pet, storm of whatever (T7) and BITF of fury if great for spike damage and aoe damage for Fury. The tree, tranquility, pack of wolfes for efficient healing and <strike>single target damage</strike> for Wardens..</p> <p>Leshii</p><hr></blockquote> Actually its a group Anti death for Wardens, not a damage spell Dallun 70 Warden Antonia Bayle<div></div><hr></blockquote>uhh and wolves ISN'T one of our best damage abilities...? o_0</div>

[Jayad]

You can't really appreciate the healing ability of furies until you've gotten BITF. 

[TimidMou]

<P>Might want to wait until the EOF NDA is lifted for more accurate comparisons of where the two classes are going methinks (no I'm not in beta, but supposedly there are going to be many changes to all classes).</P>

[stargazer5678]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dragonrealms wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dallun wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> stargazer5678 wrote:<BR> <BR>.......<BR> <P>I also believe that ancient spells are very very different between the 2 classes and ephasize their strengths. Hybernation, fire pet, storm of whatever (T7) and BITF of fury if great for spike damage and aoe damage for Fury. The tree, tranquility, pack of wolfes for efficient healing and <STRIKE>single target damage</STRIKE> for Wardens..</P> <P>Leshii</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Actually its a group Anti death for Wardens, not a damage spell<BR><BR>Dallun<BR>70 Warden <BR>Antonia Bayle<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>uhh and wolves ISN'T one of our best damage abilities...? o_0<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Heh, what I meant, Dallun, was that ancient spells empasize the strengths. I wasn't reffering to a particular spell when I said we concentrate more on a single target. But good addition about group Anti death spell.</P> <P>To Dragon - wolfes are decent, I never said it was our best DPS ability. Same goes for Fury with their Fire Pet. It's hardly their defining DPS spell. I was merely pointing out the differences.. which (I thought) is the point of this thread. Am I wrong?</P> <P>Leshii<BR></P>

[Dragonreal]

I was replying to dallun heh and I said one of the best.. not the best cuz those wolves really are very nice (not everyone is int-line specced ;P). And besides.. how many spells do we have that seem to be able to grow with us forever?<div></div>

[Dallun]

Sorry for the confusion, I was replying to the Ancient Spell listing, specifiaclly the 4 that were listed for Furies and the 3 for Wardens.  I just thought he missed it and was adding it in. Dallun 70 Warden Antonia Bayle <div></div>

[Jayad]

You could miss all but one ancient teaching spell for the warden and not miss much...

[Oakum]

<P>While fury's and wardens do have similarities, we are both druids and some things should be similiar. They need to fix the wardens to do more damage at lvl 70 then an equally equiped inquis or defiler and give us some decent buffs or debuffs to make us different then fury's. I dont want to become a fury like the OP seems to want to. </P> <P>I cant outdps them even though we are supposed to be equal but that would be okay if they didnt have better buffs/debuffs then us. I can outheal them and be more power efficient then them also. Fix it so my damage will be better then the other healing classes like they should be and give me some decent debuffs or buffs to balance the fury's dps and utility and then we would be fine.</P> <P> </P>

[Sylphier]

<div></div>so the nda was lifted and im in beta. ive been playing a 70 fury but i originally have a 70 warden. The future looks grim people. If we dont get a serious change soon im going to have to betray (and im sure many will come with me.) Just to give you an example, the one thing that made us unique compared to furys, our root line, is no longer unique to us. they now have a root line of spells as well (and im not talking about an AAs here.) We didn't recieve a similar bonus (yet), but unless they do some drastic changes soon....Another thing that drives me absolutely insane is that they are able to kite better now. They have AAs that boost in combat run speed by 35% and increase the speed reduction of snare by 55%. I was kiting ^^^ mobs in bonemire and wasn't being touched once. just dot and run in circles and wait for em to die. They also have AAs that increase casting times on their nukes, so they nuke just as fast as us but with a whole lot more damage. Our AAs turn our spells into combat arts with recast times in the 30-45 second range (no increase to damage, just the same spell but using a sword instead.) I'm FURYous about it, but other wardens are acting completely content with it and making posts about how happy they are about our AAs so i dont know if things will be changed or not.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Sylphier on <span class=date_text>11-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:59 PM</span>

[mikemcmodmi]

To me from looking at our AAs we've gotten what we wanted.  We are now better defensive buffers then furies are, we can add ~560 iirc to mit and lots to all resists.  We're now also different in that we're the melee druid and furies are the spellcaster druid.  Now you have variety and we're stronger defensive buffers by far.

[stargazer5678]

<P>Looks like in EOF the 2 classes will have more differences while still staying druids. I think that's good.</P> <P>Leshii</P>

[Tarya]

I agree that there is not enough difference between fury and warden. The distinction between offensive and defensive has to become more clear. Furies buffs and spells to increase dmg output with haste, str, int etc <--- offensive. Wardens buffs and spells to increase protections with wis, agi and just straight forward mitigation (this we don't have enough imo) <---- defensive. On dmg output.. furies could use the aid of nature more for dmg...  air (lightning, storm, haste buffs), fire (which they have most of), earth, water (like tidal wave). Lots of possibilities and great animations. Some of them would be buffs, some dmg spells. On protections... There could be different types of skins you could cast to different classes (fighter, mage, scout - possibly even other healer). Could explore the air, fire, earth and water themes for that. Earth for mitigation (like stone skin for tank, now we have just buff that creates dmg... for me it sounds more fury spell than warden). Fire (this is difficult since more destructive than protective, but could be more phoenix type spells for transforming critical hits to heals etc), Air (agi, avoidance), Water (reflecting or absorbing type of protection) We could have the aid of forest more than just one tree (now just picking up on top of my head lol). Water around the group to e.g. slow down mobs. Fire to prevent mobs to get too close. Earth ... well we have the vines to root the targets, some group form would be useful since mostly used in solo play atm. We could call on nature for protective pets to others for their protection. Let say to a mage... when they get aggro - this pet would kick in and protect, would try to grab aggro (short duration, longer recast) for just long enough for the tank to grab it back. But to support our solo play we of course need to have dmg spells too, but there could be more nature aid theme in that, while fury just uses the nature's dmg him/herself. I haven't checked how the Fury AA expansion looks like so can't really say if there's enough difference coming from there. There's tons more we could think of as different forms of offensive/defensive buffs/spells. But would you think this would bring enough difference the two? <div></div>

[FuzzBall]

<div><blockquote><hr>Tarya wrote: There's tons more we could think of as different forms of offensive/defensive buffs/spells. But would you think this would bring enough difference the two? <div></div><hr></blockquote>Up to now, I wouldve said we have roots, they dont, they have invis, we dont.... But now thats not the case.  Now Furies and root nuke for twice the dps while Wardens just have to root and hope a nuke doesnt get laughed off.  WOHO, we can buff mit, nice when something is beating on me, I just die slower</div>

[Rorack]

I love how when comparing the two classes the unhappy wardens always happen to forget we can evac.  I'll take evac over invis any day.<div></div>

[Boli32]

<div><blockquote><hr>FuzzBall wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Tarya wrote: There's tons more we could think of as different forms of offensive/defensive buffs/spells. But would you think this would bring enough difference the two? <div></div><hr></blockquote>Up to now, I wouldve said we have roots, they dont, they have invis, we dont.... But now thats not the case.  Now Furies and root nuke for twice the dps while Wardens just have to root and hope a nuke doesnt get laughed off.  WOHO, we can buff mit, nice when something is beating on me, I just die slower</div><hr></blockquote>Before the difference was allways invis for evac... and being killed because someone cast a buff I'll happily trade you for the ability to evac your whole group. (its better and safer to use an invis totem).Wardens with their naturally higher mitigation allways seemed the odd choice for roots as it was. Furys have the lowest mitigation out of any class FORCED to tank their own solo kills... the fact we're getting root is long overdue.Don't worry you arn't loosing root and your mit is getting another bonus... on another thread on this forum is shows a beta buffed warden with 4.5k mit... that's 56% mitigation I've healed plate tanks with worse.</div>

[Rorack]

I agree.  I wish we could trade off our melee buffs now that we're being turned into the melee druids and furies will be the casting druids.  I think that would close the gap between inq's benefiting from their CA line and us benefiting from our CA line.<div></div>

[FuzzBall]

<div><blockquote><hr>Rorack wrote:I agree.  I wish we could trade off our melee buffs now that we're being turned into the melee druids and furies will be the casting druids.  I think that would close the gap between inq's benefiting from their CA line and us benefiting from our CA line.<div></div><hr></blockquote>yeah , still blows that mit from the other preist types still doesnt stack.  4.5k self mit, useful if Im tanking but I dont tank, Im a healer....  a healer with 0 raid debuffs and pitiful dps</div>

[Boli32]

<div><blockquote><hr>FuzzBall wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Rorack wrote:I agree.  I wish we could trade off our melee buffs now that we're being turned into the melee druids and furies will be the casting druids.  I think that would close the gap between inq's benefiting from their CA line and us benefiting from our CA line.<div></div><hr></blockquote>yeah , still blows that mit from the other preist types still doesnt stack.  4.5k self mit, useful if Im tanking but I dont tank, Im a healer....  a healer with 0 raid debuffs and pitiful dps</div><hr></blockquote>Wardens are the new 'must haves' for raids with the new cure enhancements... that does stack with priest +mitigation.</div>

[FuzzBall]

<div><blockquote><hr>boli wrote:<div>Wardens are the new 'must haves' for raids with the new cure enhancements... that does stack with priest +mitigation.</div><hr></blockquote>from LU13 to LU29 , 1 year and now useful again</div>

[Boli32]

<div><blockquote><hr>FuzzBall wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>boli wrote:<div>Wardens are the new 'must haves' for raids with the new cure enhancements... that does stack with priest +mitigation.</div><hr></blockquote>from LU13 to LU29 , 1 year and now useful again</div><hr></blockquote>I dunno... even in the currant system we prefer to run with a warden in the MT group... sure they'll put me in if the warden is a: being a twit b: not doing his job right or c: not high enough lvl but overall my guild... indeed most guilds prefer wardens in the MT group... that isn't gonna change they are just becoming more valuable.</div>

[Fingolfin2]

<P>At least wardens can justify having 1 spot in a raid they can fill. <BR>We run furies in our dps groups they are much more flexible. Wardens buffs serve no other purpose.</P> <P>Grats on your roots furies. Devs love you. Maybe you'll get our wisdom buffs next.</P>

[Dallun]

Look, its not all doom and gloom.... Its just the way the system is set up. Defensive:  One Target that matters for buffs, heals, enhancements Offensive:  Everyone else. We promote survivability through indirect means, i.e. Wis buffs, extra heals, anti-death (needs work I know)... but the groundwork is there.  If there are complaints to be made focus on what we have and how to make them better, not what others have because, I rather like being me, and not the other guy.  Dallun 70 Warden Antonia Bayle <div></div>