Feeling like a back seat healer

[Formangenavn]

<DIV>Allthough we might not be when it comes to hp/s and hp/p, when in a grp that is defenitly what I am. Reason is very simple. Reactives and wards work faster then HoT, MT is usually at 100% or very near and I dont even bother casting heals unless we get adds. Even in a 4 man grp fighting yellow con mobs for xp I can go almost flat out on dps. One HoT when pull is all it takes. So when do we actually need two healers?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well, we did last night. Actually we needed 3 healers or higher lev tank, cause we whiped 4 or 5 times. Was in this place called PP (?) fighting guinies. At lev 3 or 4 (hm, lots of things I cant remember here) we were going to fight a 65 guinie with two adds. Grp setup was Zerker (59), templer (57), warden (me, 57) coercer (56) and swashy I think (59). 2 times mobs went for templer an we all died, other times spikes was so large tank was suddenly dead. Problem was, hp/s was not the problem, spikes was. Tank was usually in green, but when 2 spikes hit and our spells was not ready/on tank, things just happend too fast. I seriously think this grp could have made it with a shammy instead of me. Ward would have "smothed" down spikes and made healing easier to handle. As it was I could have had all my HoTs on and it wouldnt make a difference. Fights are just too fast. Continual healing over 1 min means nothing in grps. Reacting to sudden changes means everything.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We can argue that this was not a fight we should be able to win, but my personal feeling is: In a grp with more then one healer I am just a terrible dps, in a grp where we are pushing our limit I am walking a much thinner line then any other healer (exept fury I guess). So basically I shine in easy grps, but who doesnt?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone got any suggestions how to counter these "shortcomings"?</DIV><p>Message Edited by Formangenavn on <span class=date_text>11-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:19 AM</span>

[Barand]

I successfully healed this encouter with a zerk 60 as the MT (58 trouba, 55 dirge, 60 wiz, 60 swash the others), and i was 59 warden . I was the only healer and managing the spike was very hard but if you use all the spell you have you can do it. Sandstorm to stun the named and prevent some damage, the tree put in safe place to give a great hot during the fight, sylvan touch and the other instant when you feel like you aren't going to recover quickly. Even the gimpy tunare watch to give you one more second to cast another heal. Just have to spam single hot, both single heal, group heal and group hot in order. It was very hard, and a few time near to wipe but we manage it. I think with a true ancient spell  at 52 or with a real HG i could have managed it with a bit less pain (i guess a fury will have more chance to manage it with ease), but it is doable. Note : i speak about the new version of the named in poet not the easy old one <div></div>

[Formangenavn]

<P>I do find comfort in that I might actually soloheal this encounter at higher lev, but the point remains. While a shammy might see his entire single and grp ward gone in 1 sec he is left thinking, atleast they did their job. I am left thinking, dam, I have like 10k worth of HoT who didnt have a chance to do its job.</P> <P>Do not missunderstand. I am not looking for changes in healers in this post. I just want to meantion some problems I have as a warden healer. Although balancing healers in regards to heals is all good and well, how heals actually work have to be considered too. As it is now, healing for 100 now is better then healing for 200 in 2 sec, and here we are at a dissedvantege, and the shorter the fights the bigger the dissedvatege. Devs have to make mobs challanging, and since fights are short that means lots of damage fast. </P> <P>I would like fights to last much longer. I think this would lessen the problems we have with sudden spikes. As it is now we have great efficiency, but does it realy matter? How often are we oop? It does happen, but its not often. If fights were longer efficiency might actually mean something</P> <P>One thing to consider. For our HoT to work atleast a little efficient, tank has to be around 75% health (this is just a number I feel is somwhere close to my "comfort zone", some might like it higher and some lower). The other healrs would like tank at much higher % health, perhaps 100%. This basically means that if healer is a druid, tank is opperating at 75 % hp, he has 25 % less hit points. The margin for error is smaller. Another thing is the percived controll. A tank constantly at 50-75 % health will be a lot more conserned then if he is constantly at 100 %, even though the healers are doing the job equally good.</P> <P>Some of these things are very different on raid.</P>

[Travdawg]

Honestly, when DoF first came out our heals were underpowered, everyone else could out heal us.  Thats not true anymore.  We heal just as good as everyone else, I'll parse some healing log tonight and let you check it out yourself.  Last night we did a full array of raid mobs (everything from contested vox to zalak) and the groups with the wardens (I believe we have 4-6 healers at any given time, 2 wardens) always had the most HP and the best survivability due to our ward, group heals, and efficient spot heals.  Your also comparing your healing power towards healing a lvl 59 tank in poets palace.  Levels make a HUGE HUGE HUGEEEEE difference now, I actually have an easier time tanking in poet's palace then most tanks <59. I believe someone created a post and titled it "it's how you use it", and thats true.  We ARE incredibly healers, solo and in groups, but if you can't get the full 110% out of your warden then your not going to shine. <div></div>

[Formangenavn]

<DIV>I know we have the hp/s and hp/p, I know about DOF and our problems after lu13, I know its different on raid. I have metioned all of these things in my posts, but hp/s doesnt mean anything if mob dps does not follow same rules. We have a dissedvantage with spikes. I realy truly did not se this until last night. I have read about some people here saying this and I did not belive it was a problem, basically because many here said there was no problem. Maby this wasnt the encounter for me. I know I shouldn't be best at everything. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Right now I belive warden is inferior when it comes to chalanging content (not raid, havent got much experience after lev 50). Maby making fights last longer isnt the answer, maby toning down spike damage (again, if it has ever been done) but sustaining mob dps is the way to go, I do not know. Duststorm seems to be less effective, as has been stated on this forum before, although I have no numbers on that. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am left thinking, what tools do I have left that I am not using? Can't think of any. All my heals are add3 or master2 (except grp direct heal). You should have been there. Damage was incomming 2 times at 2k with 1 sec between. We actually got mob to 1 % (!!!!!) once, but whiped, so this wasn't a fight that was impossible. As already stated we had the hp/s, but there was no way me AND my healing could react fast enough. A few unlucky hits after spikes ended the fight. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know I might be demanding, I know I could have better spelluppgrades and equipment, I could have been better at knowing when to cast heals for max effect and so on. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is a very specific example, but if they do not tone down spike damage I feel we should have some way to deal with it. </DIV>

[Larsbohnstedt]

<P>There's spike damage and there's spike damage.. I don't think you have to be an ûber Warden to solo-heal a group fighting heroics a bit higher in level than MT. Heroics five levels higher than MT however, seem VERY hard to solo-heal. I don't like it all that much, to be honest, always makes me feel like wipe is imminent and it'll all be my fault even if it is a great way to prove your healing skills, to others and yourself.</P> <P>Seems to me that a group deliberately fighting mobs 6-7 levels higher than MT, even with two healers, set themselves up for failure, sooner or later. A few stiffles on a healer or both and you're all dead. Where's the fun, xp & loot in that? </P> <P>An end game buffed group tank will have.. what, 5-6k worth of health? If a mob can take him into red in the first 20 seconds, even with two healers chain-casting, it's not a matter of spike damage as I see it.. it's a matter of the group having to change tactics to something other than tanking that mob. </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Barand]

i understand what you mean. We can't manage spike like other priest do it's true in the beginning of the fight. To counter that you have to maintain every HoT possible active at the same time. Tree(300)+Wild chloro(400)+Group Chloro (300) give 1000hp/tick, added the regen of the DH you have a great amount of healing every tick. It's hard to maintain your power will fall in no time but it can counter spike damage. It's still an issue, since other priest just have to cast 1 spell to do that. The counterpart is that i dont fall asleep when playing my warden and have a great satisfaction maintaining a group alive againt tough opponent <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> That's what other warden have said in the compiling of our issue. We need a spell like fury BitF (1500hp when under 50%) instead of Tunare watch and we need HG to be usefull too. <div></div>

[Lego]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Formangenavn wrote:<BR> <DIV>I know we have the hp/s and hp/p, I know about DOF and our problems after lu13, I know its different on raid. I have metioned all of these things in my posts, but hp/s doesnt mean anything if mob dps does not follow same rules. We have a dissedvantage with spikes. I realy truly did not se this until last night. I have read about some people here saying this and I did not belive it was a problem, basically because many here said there was no problem. Maby this wasnt the encounter for me. I know I shouldn't be best at everything. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Right now I belive warden is inferior when it comes to chalanging content (not raid, havent got much experience after lev 50). Maby making fights last longer isnt the answer, maby toning down spike damage (again, if it has ever been done) but sustaining mob dps is the way to go, I do not know. Duststorm seems to be less effective, as has been stated on this forum before, although I have no numbers on that. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am left thinking, what tools do I have left that I am not using? Can't think of any. All my heals are add3 or master2 (except grp direct heal). You should have been there. Damage was incomming 2 times at 2k with 1 sec between. We actually got mob to 1 % (!!!!!) once, but whiped, so this wasn't a fight that was impossible. As already stated we had the hp/s, but there was no way me AND my healing could react fast enough. A few unlucky hits after spikes ended the fight. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know I might be demanding, I know I could have better spelluppgrades and equipment, I could have been better at knowing when to cast heals for max effect and so on. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is a very specific example, but if they do not tone down spike damage I feel we should have some way to deal with it. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Just as an FYI, the fight you are talking about is the Keeper, and he received a stealthy beefing up sometime last week.  There are quite a few posts in the gameplay section about all kinds of groups wiping because he was doing massive spike damage.  So it may not be the best encounter to look at given that none of your group was level 60.<BR>

[Sokolov]

<div></div>The Keeper of Silence is a TOUGH mob. The first time I went there two nights ago we had 60 Warden, 56 Templar and 54 Defiler (me) - it was fairly easy.  With all 3 healing classes, the tank was never really in any danger of dying. Subsequent visit last night it was just myself and the same Warden.  It took us 2 tries to get him.  I did nothing but chain cast all my heal lines, and I am sure the Warden was doing pretty much the same. Both nights I had a 60 Zerker tank, and the mob rips through my wards like they are just paper, and I can ward for 3k damage. EDIT:  I don't feel confident that I can single heal this encounter as a Defiler even when I hit 60.  Not having time to debuff (not to mention level diference incurring resists) substantially decreases my efficiency. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Sokolov on <span class=date_text>11-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:03 AM</span>

[stargazer5678]

<P>In PP usually 2 healers are enough, they don't have to be 60 but 55+ are preferable. I would strongly recommend a high level tank though. I saw a HUGE difference between level 58 and level 60 tank in that place.</P> <P>Yastreb, 60 Fury, Oasis</P>

[Unmask]

<div></div>I can still heal this solo but it was certainly easier before the Keeper went from being 65^^ to 65^^^.  The first time we did this mob as a 65^^^ we wiped because we took it for granted.  But it hasn't givenus a problem since.  We can actually do this with fewer people but with the class specific loot there's not much reason. The level of the healer does not seem as important as the level of the tank.  As long as your heals are upgraded, the level of the mob doesn't affect you so much but the last thing you want is to have the tank's taunts resisted. I do agree with you to some extent on the viability of HoTs though. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Unmasked on <span class=date_text>11-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:00 AM</span>

[Isek]

The fight you are talking about is just HARD - probably the hardest in the zone. It's hard for a shaman, cleric, druid, whatever. I don't think I've lost it, but it is heavily dependent on how strong your tank is...I wouldn't attempt it with a 59 unless he was exceptionally well-geared. I just want to know where our t6 version of Spirit of the Oak is... <div></div>

[haner74]

<P>I think we have increased dramatically in our ability to heal.  True, we have some spells that need to be redone (HG and TW) but I have learned to work with what we have.  I am a 60 Warden and can solo heal PP without alot of problems.  I have some fabled gear and all single, group heals as well as buffs have been upgraded to adept 3.</P> <P>When we go on raids I am always in the MT group and we have had alot of success lately.  As for power problems, get as many in-combat regen items you can, manastone, potions, shards and hearts.  I am almost always the last healer to get low on power.</P> <P>I don't feel like a back seat healer, maybe one sitting in the passenger seat for now.  We are heading in the right direction and hopefully they will continue to look at us for a couple of fixes.</P> <P>On a side note, what do you think if they took the stun off of HG and allowed us to cast other heals at the same time.  Would that be something in the right direction?</P>

[Arielle Nightshade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> haner74 wrote:<BR> <P>I think we have increased dramatically in our ability to heal.  True, we have some spells that need to be redone (HG and TW) but I have learned to work with what we have.  I am a 60 Warden and can solo heal PP without alot of problems.  I have some fabled gear and all single, group heals as well as buffs have been upgraded to adept 3.</P> <P>When we go on raids I am always in the MT group and we have had alot of success lately.  As for power problems, get as many in-combat regen items you can, manastone, potions, shards and hearts.  I am almost always the last healer to get low on power.</P> <P>I don't feel like a back seat healer, maybe one sitting in the passenger seat for now.  We are heading in the right direction and hopefully they will continue to look at us for a couple of fixes.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff99>On a side note, what do you think if they took the stun off of HG and allowed us to cast other heals at the same time.  Would that be something in the right direction?</FONT></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Be interested in hearing the number cruncher's opinions on this one...because it sounds like a good idea.   On the other hand, I think most lvl 50 'specialty' heals (not sure if that's the right term or not) stun the caster ...so if they took it off ours, they'd have to take it off everyone's..and that realy changes the flavor of those spells.</P> <P>I'd settle for one really nice direct heal.   Although the changes made have made us quite playable, and very capable of solo-healing...I still feel like I'm playing Nintendo when healing anything challenging enough to be rewarding.   Our regular XP group doesn't do huge content either, we just hang out and explore.  </P> <P>I do appreciate our efficiency power wise...but wish we didn't have to mash buttons to take care of burst spikes.<BR></P>

[haner74]

<P>I was thinking more about HG and how it could be useful without being to powerful.  If they made it raid wide but can only be cast on one character at a time.  Example, 2 wardens could not have it on the MT at the same time, just like porcupine for the fury's.  It would be nice to have it cross raid though.  Instead of stunning you, what if it only allowed you to cast your heals on the individual that has HG.  Sort of a focus that can't go else where.  This is a semi-stun.  Can't cast anything on or heal others during that time unless you cancel HG.  Right now the stun has it so you can't move.  In place of the stun non-movement you could be rooted instead (like Sandstorm).</P> <P>Any thoughts on this idea?</P> <P>Annya</P> <P>60 Warden / 60 Alchemist</P> <P>Befallen</P>

[Lego]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Arielle Nightshade wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> haner74 wrote:<BR> <P>I think we have increased dramatically in our ability to heal.  True, we have some spells that need to be redone (HG and TW) but I have learned to work with what we have.  I am a 60 Warden and can solo heal PP without alot of problems.  I have some fabled gear and all single, group heals as well as buffs have been upgraded to adept 3.</P> <P>When we go on raids I am always in the MT group and we have had alot of success lately.  As for power problems, get as many in-combat regen items you can, manastone, potions, shards and hearts.  I am almost always the last healer to get low on power.</P> <P>I don't feel like a back seat healer, maybe one sitting in the passenger seat for now.  We are heading in the right direction and hopefully they will continue to look at us for a couple of fixes.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff99>On a side note, what do you think if they took the stun off of HG and allowed us to cast other heals at the same time.  Would that be something in the right direction?</FONT></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Be interested in hearing the number cruncher's opinions on this one...because it sounds like a good idea.   On the other hand, I think most lvl 50 'specialty' heals (not sure if that's the right term or not) stun the caster ...so if they took it off ours, they'd have to take it off everyone's..and that realy changes the flavor of those spells.</P> <P>I'd settle for one really nice direct heal.   Although the changes made have made us quite playable, and very capable of solo-healing...I still feel like I'm playing Nintendo when healing anything challenging enough to be rewarding.   Our regular XP group doesn't do huge content either, we just hang out and explore.  </P> <P>I do appreciate our efficiency power wise...but wish we didn't have to mash buttons to take care of burst spikes.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I'm one of those number crunchers, and I think you've hit the problem with changing it on the head.  The stun portion of these spells makes them useful but situational.  Personally, I don't see HG as bad as it is, however, in my opinion it needs to heal for a lot more then your level 54 regen.  So I think it should get a healing increase.  That to me, makes it viable to use and hopefully on par with the rest of the priests line.  <BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And speaking as a Fury, I too feel like I'm playing Nintendo when main healing.  Even having that one big DH it's somewhat in our nature as a Druid sub.  </DIV>

[Spag]

<DIV>I have come to the realization that HG is only usefull while healing with another warden or fury in the group, maybe.  Reason being the single target regens do not stack.  The reason I say maybe is because I can still put out more healing power per second if I chain single target heals, with the group heal and group regen.  I will be using power pretty quickly but I can heal much more this way.  Now in situations where the fight is going to last a long time, I may run out of power, but in these situations, HG only lasts 30 some seconds anyway, and has like a 3 min recast, so HG is still not worth using.  All this and I am lvl 51, I don't even have my lvl 54 heal that will beat it by itself.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Removing the stun would help HG but, as someone pointed out to me before when I suggested this, the stuns for the other lvl 50 spells would have to be removed as well to make it balanced.  I can't say how this will affect the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Due to its drawbacks, as in being stunned for duration and not being able to change targets if needed,  this spell should simply heal for an amazing amount per second.  Either that or throw in some power regen or damage component to it.  </DIV>

[Unmask]

Suppose you have a raid with 2 wardens with 1 in the MT group who can cast HG on the MT.  The other warden is responsible for keeping the basic HoT on as well as DHing the MT and healing his group.  The problem is that HG will outlast all other heal spells by 26s.  Would you be comfortable as an MT group healer to not cast any spells (cures heals whatever) for such a long period of time?  Personally I just don't see a situation when it would ever be practical to cast (and I have it at master).  If it was significantly beefed up then maybe. <div></div>

[haner74]

<P>I agree with unmasked.  I don't like having to be in the situation where I can't cast anything for 30 secs.  Thats why I suggested that you can only cast on the the character that has HG on them.  That way you can keep casting on the tank such as cures and heals.</P> <P>Maybe by reading this they will fix our spells.  DEVS you know the drill, now do it!!!:smileymad:</P>

[Sokolov]

Oddly enough, the Defiler version is the suckiest StunHeal if you talk in terms of healing, but I use it ALL the time.  It regens about 300 health every 6 seconds for the group, which is hardly anything really, but the cool part is that it also regens group power.  Thus it is actually useful a lot more often. Throw up a group ward and Maelstrom and watch with glee. <div></div>

[Kyralis]

HG over time is less efficient and heals for less than WG alone, and certainly heals for less than chaining DHs. While I suppose it could have situational utility if there's a second warden keeping WG up, the stun preventing DHs from being used nonetheless cuts down on your hp/sec ability significantly. It also means that you have no ability to react to things without clicking off HG- and the earlier you click it off, the less efficient it is. Given how spikey we *know* damage and effects are, we simply can't afford that lack of fast-reaction capability- that's the whole point of our 1 to 1.5 second casting time heals! <div></div>

[Shennr]

<P>How I picture the Warden (druid) class in a fantasy type of game is like an aura of health. To just be in the mere presence of a Warden should give you an HoT effect plus maybe some other beneficial effects.  And to add a Grove to enhance our beneficial effects would just be the coolest.<BR></P> <P>What I would love to see is maybe make HG and Protecting Grove a raid wide spell that has a very large range, 50 m. Make the healing effect on HG smaller or just take it off completely making it a buff instead and put in some other beneficial effects to the spell.  Make protecting grove have increased benefits from the buff HG.</P> <P>You could change around how these 2 spells work a number of ways but wouldn't it be cool to just feel the presence of a Warden in your group or raid by just inviting them. Since the healing effect on PG stacks it would then be useful to have more then 1 warden on a raid.</P>

[Treve]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Formangenavn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Allthough we might not be when it comes to hp/s and hp/p, when in a grp that is defenitly what I am. Reason is very simple. Reactives and wards work faster then HoT, MT is usually at 100% or very near and I dont even bother casting heals unless we get adds. Even in a 4 man grp fighting yellow con mobs for xp I can go almost flat out on dps. One HoT when pull is all it takes. So when do we actually need two healers?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well, we did last night. Actually we needed 3 healers or higher lev tank, cause we whiped 4 or 5 times. Was in this place called PP (?) fighting guinies. At lev 3 or 4 (hm, lots of things I cant remember here) we were going to fight a 65 guinie with two adds. Grp setup was Zerker (59), templer (57), warden (me, 57) coercer (56) and swashy I think (59). 2 times mobs went for templer an we all died, other times spikes was so large tank was suddenly dead. Problem was, hp/s was not the problem, spikes was. Tank was usually in green, but when 2 spikes hit and our spells was not ready/on tank, things just happend too fast. I seriously think this grp could have made it with a shammy instead of me. Ward would have "smothed" down spikes and made healing easier to handle. As it was I could have had all my HoTs on and it wouldnt make a difference. Fights are just too fast. Continual healing over 1 min means nothing in grps. Reacting to sudden changes means everything.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We can argue that this was not a fight we should be able to win, but my personal feeling is: In a grp with more then one healer I am just a terrible dps, in a grp where we are pushing our limit I am walking a much thinner line then any other healer (exept fury I guess). So basically I shine in easy grps, but who doesnt?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone got any suggestions how to counter these "shortcomings"?</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Formangenavn on <SPAN class=date_text>11-28-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>04:19 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <DIV>it's funny that you say this...i can honestly say that i love my warden again after the changes they've made since the infamous combate update</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>last night, for instance, my guild went on a raid where we typically have our two "main" healers in the MT group (fury and templar)...both healers were offline and some reservations were expressed in guildchat about whether we should cancel the raid</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i got a /tell from the guild leader asking me to "step up to the plate" (i'm lvl57 btw) with a 59 mystic</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>smooooooooth raid...no healng issues at all...i got a few /tell's after the raid...i could tell that people were a little surprised that a warden could hold his own in the MT group</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/flex...best warden day yet since the combat update <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Stentari]

<P>Since the servers are still down anyway, I'll throw my 2cp in here just for fun.</P> <P> </P> <P>I was on the verge of giving up after the combat revamp.  I was around lvl 40-something at the time and fuond life more than extremely difficult, solo or group.   I even made another character and quit playing my warden for awhile.</P> <P>I kept an eye on the boards and saw some changes coming so I went back to playing him after a bit and was pleasently suprised.  At least I could live long enough to do a few things at that point.  Life was far from good, but I felt that after all the time I had put into my warden I should at least give it another shot.  I'm glad I did.</P> <P>Not much longer after that, several changes were made to our healing spells, the technicalities of which have been overly discussed and do not bear repeating.  Suffice it to say that the developers had seen the difficulties and responded to a certain extent.  The warden community appears to be divided on just how far they made it, but no one can deny that they DID make soem farily serious changes and that those changes amounted to a big help.</P> <P>It has been my personal experience that my (now lvl 55) warden can hold his own under most circumstances.  Not only hold his own but do darned well, thank you very much.  I am regularly complimented on my healing in groups working in some of the toughest areas of the game.  No, I do not believe that my character could function as the sole healer in a group of 6 going after targets 4 or 5 levels above the average of my group, but then, you're usually not the sole healer anyway.  I don't really care if other healing classes can do this or not.  As far as I am concerned that is irrelevant to the discussion of the viability of the warden class in this game.</P> <P>Yes, I know that groups will exercise their choices based on perceived value of different classes, etc. and that as a warden I may be excluded from some groups.  But then, the "l33t d00ds" that usually populate such groups are not the type of people I want to be around anyway.  And, as I'm sure most folks have experienced, just being a certain class does NOT guarantee a specific result.  You need to know what you're doing and pay attention and stick to your role, etc., etc., etc.</P> <P>I function quite well in conjunction with another healer in the main group of raids and even have time to do some cross-group healing on occasion.  A lot of that depends on the skills of others in the group, though, and their ability to stick to THEIR role and not require me to do heroic feats of healing because they cannot control their aggro, etc.  I can DO those heoric feats occasionaly... and have pulled off some situations that the group has unanimously said they were sure we were going to die in... but I shouldn't HAVE to do that as a matter of course.  Regardless, stuff happens and it's no biggie to me.  I will not, however, be blamed because I'm "just a warden" when someone else has forced a situation to bad ends because of their incompetence.  </P> <P>I make mistakes, sure... and people die because of them.  That makes me feel really guilty so I redouble my efforts to stay alert, use all my skills to maximum potential and do the best job I can with what I have.  So far I guess I'm doing pretty well because there's a good number of folks that seek me out on regular occasion.. and I'm sure it's not for my brevity.  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Eliasor</P> <P>Warden (55) Antonia Bayle</P>

[Arielle Nightshade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Treveur wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>it's funny that you say this...i can honestly say that i love my warden again after the changes they've made since the infamous combate update</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>last night, for instance, my guild went on a raid where we typically have our two "main" healers in the MT group (fury and templar)...both healers were offline and some reservations were expressed in guildchat about whether we should cancel the raid</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i got a /tell from the guild leader asking me to "step up to the plate" (i'm lvl57 btw) with a 59 mystic</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>smooooooooth raid...no healng issues at all...i got a few /tell's after the raid...i could tell that people were a little surprised that a warden could hold his own in the MT group</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/flex...best warden day yet since the combat update <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well...in response to another thread about updating spells - I went to reinventory what my spells were, and what (if anything) might benefit from updating.  Although I was sure I had all tier 5 spells at adept 3 or master, I don't play Warden as Main anymore...so I thought I'd check.</P> <P>Lo, and behold, when reorganizing spell bars a few fights earlier, I had accidentally left Verdant Rapture off the hotbar.  (I'm a noob..I readily admit it...)   We were XPing earlier in Silent City, and although I was punching buttons fairly fast (in a good group with a higher leveled coercer for crowd control that makes healing easier) - I was still healing well.   There were huge damage spikes that had me worried (that I don't even think the inclusion of VR on my hotbar would have countered readily)...but point is - was holding my own even missing a key spell.  </P> <P>In my defense - I haven't been making the "I wish we had one really good direct heal" plea or the "I feel like I'm playing Nintendo" remark while missing VR ...that was a 1 xp session issue, not since revamp ...LOL  </P> <P>I am pleased with Warden, now but would still like to see the tweaks that are needed to make this a sweeet class.   I am also really pleased to be a member of a community that works together to achieve these changes.   That, right there, a makes this group some l33t dOOds, IMO</P><p>Message Edited by Arielle Nightshade on <span class=date_text>11-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:41 AM</span>