Tight-lipped Devs

[netswine]

The Developers have been conspicuously silent when it comes to the current Warden community concerns about our healing compared to other priest classes. Can this be construed as something positive? Perhaps the Devs are planning some changes or tweaks, and they do not want to add fuel to the fire by promising things that may be changed. Or does this actually mean impending doom to the Wardens? Maybe the Devs and Designers are so sure of the current viability of the Warden class, that they are just blatantly ignoring us. For the love of Karana, I hope it is not the latter... <div></div>

[Arelore]

<DIV>$5 says they think we are good as is and plan nothing to help wardens.</DIV>

[neble]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Arelore wrote:<BR> <DIV>$5 says they think we are good as is and plan nothing to help wardens.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>I have only one thing to say to this... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://www.ddo.com/" target=_blank>DnD Online</A> releases early next year, and I can't wait.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If Warden healing isn't balanced between now and then, the release day of DnD Online will mark the last day I ever do business with SOE again.</DIV><p>Message Edited by neblehK on <span class=date_text>09-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:11 AM</span>

[Edyil]

<P>oooo </P> <P> </P> <P>I hadn't heard about that one.  Looks cool.  <A href="http://www.vanguardsoh.com/" target=_blank>SOH</A> is going to be good.</P>

[neble]

<P>Yep, that one looks sexy too.  So many choices, it's a shame I only play them one at a time.</P> <P><A href="http://lotro.turbine.com/" target=_blank>LOTRO</A> looks good too, but has this feeling of being a stalled game right now since they had to switch developers and all.</P>

[Deeds]

<P>I Posted this in the Spell, Arts, Abilities section because Devs seem to respond there more often.</P> <P> </P> <P>I have a 50 Fury and a 49 Warden (almost 50).</P> <P>It is funny how pre-exansion, the Fury was one of the most underpowered healers in the game, basically, just a back up healer.  I used to laugh to myslef how my then lvl 40 Warden could basically heal 2x better then my lvl 50 Fury.</P> <P>Post expansion, the roles are almost reversed.  Due to the wardens inability to handle burst damage, and heal stacking bugs, the Warden has basically become a back up healer, & the Fury healing has been accordingly increased.</P> <P>I can plainly see the big healing difference in these 2 classes since I play both.</P> <P>Devs please look into this and try not to take 10 months to balance the healing out this time.</P> <P> </P> <P>Sophilia 50 Fury</P> <P>Katyia 49 warden</P>

[Kyralis]

PM'd to Lockeye: There are now a plethora of threads on the forums about the inability of wardens to heal in situations that other healers handle with ease. We warned about this during beta when we analyzed the heal lines and showed clearly that clerics (for instance) could vastly out-heal wardens, but we were ignored then. Please don't ignore us now. Wardens are broken. We need a statement that they're going to be fixed. I've posted this elsewhere, but IMO the single best way to fix them would be to provide a way for HoTs to scale to incoming damage the same way that wards and reactives do. Consider: An HoT is applied and has a health pool of X and a maximum duration of 20 seconds. Every second, the target's health is checked, and if the target is damage 20% of their damage is healed and that amount is removed from the pool of health available for the HoT. If the pool is emptied, the spell expires. Suddenly we have druid flavor, via a regen, with the damage scaling advantage of wards and reactives- and at 20% per second, we still wouldn't even scale as well as they can! It would be, however, sufficient (or nearly so) to help mitigate our very serious burst healling problems. Sustained DPS does not kill people, a fact that any healer can tell you. Burst DPS kills people. Wardens have no way of countering burst DPS- and therefore, with a warden healer, people die. This needs to be fixed. I love being a regen healer, but not at the expense of an ability to actually do my job. <div></div>

[Tuved2]

Sent this PM to Saavedra who plays a warden:Your impressionsJust curious your impressions of Wardens group healing since you've had some time to play. My impression and the almost unanamous concensus of the Warden community is we need the ability to deal with damage spikes. We need something like a Furys Back into the Fray spell. 1 large fast single target heal or at least increase the portion of our direct heals on SW and VR. We also have serious stacking issues, i.e. we dont' stack with another fury or warden in a group or raid. What do you think?Tuv50 Warden (basically retired)53 TailorGot this back:Re: Your impressionsHowdy Tuved..... yes I'm reading the boards, yes I am seeing your guys concerns in regards to wardens, yes some of your concerns mirror my own, and yes I have spoken to the the people in charge of spells in regards to my own thoughts on this.

[Arelore]

Heck of a great idea Caerywn!!

[arielelf]

Woot! At least someone has ackknowledged us. Thank you guys for keeping after em! <div></div>

[Aaeamdar]

<span><blockquote><hr>Tuved2 wrote:Sent this PM to Saavedra who plays a warden:Your impressionsJust curious your impressions of Wardens group healing since you've had some time to play. My impression and the almost unanamous concensus of the Warden community is we need the ability to deal with damage spikes. We need something like a Furys Back into the Fray spell. 1 large fast single target heal<font color="#ffff00"> or at least increase the portion of our direct heals on SW and VR</font>. We also have serious stacking issues, i.e. we dont' stack with another fury or warden in a group or raid. What do you think?Tuv50 Warden (basically retired)53 TailorGot this back:Re: Your impressionsHowdy Tuved..... yes I'm reading the boards, yes I am seeing your guys concerns in regards to wardens, yes some of your concerns mirror my own, and yes I have spoken to the the people in charge of spells in regards to my own thoughts on this.<hr></blockquote>We really need to drop this part (in yellow).  If the Devs lock on to this as our "fix" we will be completely screwed for the long haul as the focus continues to be on increasing the amount we heal over 2-3 seconds instead of the real problem - the amount we heal in total over about 30 seconds.</span><div></div>

[neble]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tuved2 wrote:<BR>Re: Your impressions<BR>Howdy Tuved.<BR><BR><BR>.... yes I'm reading the boards, yes I am seeing your guys concerns in regards to wardens, yes some of your concerns mirror my own, and yes I have spoken to the the people in charge of spells in regards to my own thoughts on this.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Spiffy. <BR>

[neble]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caerwyn wrote:<BR>PM'd to Lockeye:<BR><BR>There are now a plethora of threads on the forums about the inability of wardens to heal in situations that other healers handle with ease. We warned about this during beta when we analyzed the heal lines and showed clearly that clerics (for instance) could vastly out-heal wardens, but we were ignored then.<BR><BR>Please don't ignore us now. Wardens are broken. We need a statement that they're going to be fixed.<BR><BR>I've posted this elsewhere, but IMO the single best way to fix them would be to provide a way for HoTs to scale to incoming damage the same way that wards and reactives do. Consider: An HoT is applied and has a health pool of X and a maximum duration of 20 seconds. Every second, the target's health is checked, and if the target is damage 20% of their damage is healed and that amount is removed from the pool of health available for the HoT. If the pool is emptied, the spell expires. Suddenly we have druid flavor, via a regen, with the damage scaling advantage of wards and reactives- and at 20% per second, we still wouldn't even scale as well as they can! It would be, however, sufficient (or nearly so) to help mitigate our very serious burst healling problems.<BR><BR>Sustained DPS does not kill people, a fact that any healer can tell you. Burst DPS kills people. Wardens have no way of countering burst DPS- and therefore, with a warden healer, people die. This needs to be fixed. I love being a regen healer, but not at the expense of an ability to actually do my job.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Also spiffy.  I think it would require a lot of testing on a test server to make sure it was balanced in our own interest as well as other healers, but a spiffy idea none-the-less. 

[Kolen]

<DIV>Nice, hopefully it will work out eventually then.  I do suspect they will take action.  From what I've been reading here, the game is no where near balanced for Wardens as-is.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kolenar on <span class=date_text>09-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:11 PM</span>

[neble]

<P> </P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kolenar wrote:<BR> <DIV>Nice, hopefully it will work out eventually then.  I do suspect they will take action.  From what I've been reading here, the game is no where near balanced for Wardens as-is.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Kolenar on <SPAN class=date_text>09-28-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:11 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You know, just out of pure curiosity I went ahead and rolled up another toon so I could see what the Isle was like under the new combat system.... wow!  I'll admit I haven't been on the isle in a long time, but holy cow was it easy.  The gobs around the treefort fell like fragile twigs, as did the skellies... especially the ones inside the fenced portion.  The orc guy was also a pretty easy fight compared to what he use to be going down in a 3 person group before the mage could even get a second spell off.</P> <P>Being on the Isle was like being in Disney World and having a bashing blast compared to the abuse I'm taking in DOF.  Sure, the game is suppose to be harder at my level than it is in the begining, but I don't see how any Warden could be out there healing with Adept 1s (let alone Apprentice level spells!) and be able to cut it in fast paced groups.  I can solo heal ok in the Clefts and most of the Living Tombs, but I'm using Adept 3 and Master 2 spells.  Of course as I've mentioned in other post, most of Silent City and Shimmering Citadel is hands off for solo healing to me, but not to Templars my level.</P>

[netswine]

<span><blockquote><hr>Tuved2 wrote:Sent this PM to Saavedra who plays a warden:Your impressionsJust curious your impressions of Wardens group healing since you've had some time to play. My impression and the almost unanamous concensus of the Warden community is we need the ability to deal with damage spikes. We need something like a Furys Back into the Fray spell. 1 large fast single target heal or at least increase the portion of our direct heals on SW and VR. We also have serious stacking issues, i.e. we dont' stack with another fury or warden in a group or raid. What do you think?Tuv50 Warden (basically retired)53 TailorGot this back:Re: Your impressionsHowdy Tuved.<font color="#ff0000">.... yes I'm reading the boards, yes I am seeing your guys concerns in regards to wardens, yes some of your concerns mirror my own, and yes I have spoken to the the people in charge of spells in regards to my own thoughts on this.</font><hr></blockquote> So you had this little gem of information, and didn't tell us. Bad Tuved, bad bad. <span>:smileytongue:</span></span><div></div>

[3cho]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> netswine wrote:<BR>The Developers have been conspicuously silent when it comes to the current Warden community concerns about our healing compared to other priest classes.<BR><BR>Can this be construed as something positive? Perhaps the Devs are planning some changes or tweaks, and they do not want to add fuel to the fire by promising things that may be changed.<BR><BR>Or does this actually mean impending doom to the Wardens? Maybe the Devs and Designers are so sure of the current viability of the Warden class, that they are just blatantly ignoring us.<BR><BR>For the love of Karana, I hope it is not the latter... <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Unfortunately, this is pretty normal.   I won't comment on why I think it <STRONG>is</STRONG> this way, but the SOE development team and/or community relations folks don't provide a lot of feedback for stuff like this.  I'd be willing to bet money that they are looking at it (or have looked at it) but won't post a "hey, we're looking at this and will get back to you".</P> <P>Truthfully, if they plan on doing something, my guess is we'll see something first in the Test update notes.</P> <P>I am hoping (and praying) that they do not nerf shaman's or clerics.  I will truly be done with this game if they go that route :smileymad: ... but it's a route they take far too often.</P><p>Message Edited by 3cho on <span class=date_text>09-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:33 PM</span>

[Kyralis]

They can't afford to nerf clerics and shaman, or all groups will be required to have two healers to do anything interesting- and raids will require 10+ out of 24. That's simply not realistic- there aren't enough people who play healers to fulfill that, and nerfs like these certainly aren't encouraging new people to start healing... <div></div>

[Faithes]

Heya =).  One of you guys posted something about a set pool of health for the HoT and it heals as they get damaged.  Or else, something along those lines.  I'd say do not do that, because that just sounds like a cheap reactive to me.  I don't wanna be a templar or inquisitor or mystic or defiler, I WANNA BE A WARDEN! =( <div></div>

[3cho]

<span><blockquote><hr>Caerwyn wrote:They can't afford to nerf clerics and shaman, or all groups will be required to have two healers to do anything interesting- and raids will require 10+ out of 24. That's simply not realistic- there aren't enough people who play healers to fulfill that, and nerfs like these certainly aren't encouraging new people to start healing... <div></div><hr></blockquote> I agree with you, but it's hasn't stopped them before <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  BTW, congrats on 2 more levels (since that last time I noticed).</span><div></div>

[Frametree]

<P>I just saw a dev post that responds to an issue tanks are apparently having.  The substance of the response (sorry I can't link it) was:  We hear what you're saying, and we're looking at things.  We want to give things a little time to breathe.  But we also want it NOT to be the case that one tank is just the best -- all tanks should be able to tank equally.</P> <P>Something like that, anyway.  Be nice to hear something like that about priests and equality.  I remain optimistic.  (Or naive, I suppose.)</P>

[Atrix Wolfe]

heh, who made a monk expecting to tank raid mobs?  I definitely didn't create a warden to be a slow as balls, should work in theory, healer.  <div></div>

[Edyil]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Atrix Wolfe wrote:<BR>heh, who made a monk expecting to tank raid mobs?  I definitely didn't create a warden to be a slow as balls, should work in theory, healer. <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Most monks, especially considering it was stated from the start that all tanks would be equal in value....  Now have they reached that point?  No, but it's closer than it was before the CU.</P> <P>I duo 90% of the time with my GF (47 Monk / 47 Warden).  We do great things.  But the lack of burst healing is quite obvious since the CU.</P>

[ScarlettCru]

<DIV>amen, d&d looks good, I signed up for the "alpha"</DIV> <DIV>If SOE doesn't make me happy here, I am sho enough leaving (and spamming the d&d link all over these boards). Looks like none of the dev's care about the lower level game/char's, they nerf without fixing, the tradeskill stuff could be a million times better with little revamps like more raws available from the merchant (to keep price gauging down) and more merchants who carry all you need. (merchant in south q tradeskill instance only carries torches, some of the other instance merchants carry less than half what you need...what is the point of making us run across town constantly?)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Plus have enough people mentioned the huge nerf yet? They still haven't said or done anything about it, though simply shaving a few seconds off our reuse timers would fix the problem for most. And I have noted ppl in here who are /petition and /bug every day concerning the nerfs...but no comment. </DIV> <DIV>Like that customer service satisfaction! thank you SOE!</DIV> <DIV>I have also gotten the "real healer" comment and gotten way less pick up group offers.</DIV>

[Edyil]

Do us a favor and don't spam the link on these boards.  There aren't very many people left on here that are not bitter and mean spirited in their posts.  We don't need them <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Let them keep their EQ2.