am i being paranoid?

[Treve]

<DIV>i think i'm finding it harder to get groups since the patch?...do the other classes think we suck?</DIV>

[Tuved2]

Other classes are able to see clearly what other priests do so much better. They don't have the "wishful thinking" and "optomistic outlook" that some of the wardens here do because quite frankly, they don't have to. They need a priest who can do the job best and it isn't taking them long to learn not to choose Wardens. Get used to it. I said we've become EQ1 druids. This is part of the territory.

[boa]

<P>     Had my last group with my warden tonight, after we got our shards back one member said in group, what we need is a real healer, LOL thaht really hurt. </P> <P>    Kinda lengthy survey , not to much about the revamp guess they dont want to hear it.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>    Krakes 50 Warden  Toxx</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[xenocyst]

<div></div>I think our class just got a whole hell of a lot harder to play. I think comparably, no other healer got this much more difficult (except maybe templars, based on hear-say). My defiler sure as [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] is relatively easy to play now. I know for sure that for the first week I sucked balls. I also know for sure that I need to play my A game at all times now to solo heal effectively, but I also know that when I bring my A game my healing is pretty good aside from certain situations (which I work hard to avoid) and my dps is through the roof. Edit: Oh, also I think a lot of folks are judging by how people play post revamp and pre-relearn characters. Give it a few weeks and some tweaking and re-evaluate. <div></div><p>Message Edited by xenocyst on <span class=date_text>09-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:04 PM</span>

[Kyralis]

Templar, while perhaps more difficult to play than their pre-revamp versions, are still far better healers than we are and far easier to play. I group with one a lot, and the difference in healing power is night and day. <div></div>

[Treve]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xenocyst wrote:<BR> I think our class just got a whole hell of a lot harder to play. I think comparably, no other healer got this much more difficult (except maybe templars, based on hear-say). My defiler sure as [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] is relatively easy to play now. I know for sure that for the first week I sucked balls. I also know for sure that I need to play my A game at all times now to solo heal effectively, but I also know that when I bring my A game my healing is pretty good aside from certain situations (which I work hard to avoid) and my dps is through the roof.<BR><BR>Edit: Oh, also I think a lot of folks are judging by how people play post revamp and pre-relearn characters. Give it a few weeks and some tweaking and re-evaluate.<BR> <P>Message Edited by xenocyst on <SPAN class=date_text>09-26-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:04 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>i know what you're saying about the revamp and relearn...when i started a healer, i was amazed at how little time healers got to actually watch the game versus the health bars in the group window...hehe</P> <P>but now, i'm on the edge of my seat most of the time :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>can i ask which situations you try to avoid? i know that adds are absolutely brutal...i've also had to learn which classes should be sacrificed first if i can't heal everyone<BR></P>

[xenocyst]

Caerwyn: I don't agree that templars are far better healers, I was discussing healing with a guild templar last night and they're not as uber as you may think. I do agree that they're more able to handle the situational aspects where we are lacking, but to make a blanket statement that they're better is imo, misguided. In a trio group, which I find to be the best xp right now, a warden is much much much better than a templar, because we bring dps, lots of it, and good solid baseline mana regen at a low power cost. I can trio blue-white-yellow heroics with a guard and a high dps class very efficiently, and usually I only need to cast two heals for a normal fight. Treveur: In general, if a mage gets aggro on a hard hitting mob, I don't even bother switching targets to try to get a heal off. They simply aren't going to be able to take the hit, so I find that I'm better off getting the tank back up to 95%+ and queuing a rez so that I can get them back up and buffing asap. Adds, depending on the group and the level of the adds are pretty much the only nightmare situation. And even then, if I see them coming I start casting like mad and usually we're ok. Accept that solo healing is no longer something that's fun <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> I find that grouping with shammys is incredible rewarding. Have the shammy debuff like mad and throw wards when he sees your regens falling behind on a plate tank. You'll find that when that ward goes up the tanks HP go up very rapidly since they're no longer tanking damage. If you have a brawler tanking, let the shammy be main heal, keep regens ready when the ward drops and nuke your heart out. At 51 my winds of winter M1 is hitting for upwards of 700 on some mobs, and the single target nukes are in the vicintiy of 300, particularly after I land bitter frost. Pallies are your friend, they have direct heals that can make a templar cry, so they can spot heal themselves in the situations where your regens aren't keeping up. You'll need to be very aggressive with the regens since they don't mitigate like a guardian, but if you get the right group together solo healing with a pally spot healing can be very good. <div></div>

[Aaeamdar]

<span><blockquote><hr>xenocyst wrote:Caerwyn: I don't agree that templars are far better healers, I was discussing healing with a guild templar last night and they're not as uber as you may think. <hr></blockquote>The Templar you were discussing things with is simply misguided (or possibly being intentionally decpetive) or has not attempted to *push* things.  The thing about being a far better healer is that you have to seek out content where that superiority matters to see it.  I actually think that the content Wardens are able to handel is the content Devs thought was most appropriate for groups to be taking on - high yellows, low orange "Heroic" encounters.  If a Templar and a Warden both take on this sort of content, you will rarely see any difference (or the difference will be cosmetic - the Tank will spend less time "in the green" but will none-the-less be healed just fine and in no real danager of a wipe). Templar Max_HPS is close to 45% greater than Warden Max_HPS (and it really is this provably extreme) at nearly the same HPM when all/most of the damage is focused on a single target (MT) and as long as the incoming DPS is coming in greater than 5 damage instances every 7 seconds.  That scenario pretty much sums up normal play, even when pushing the limits.  Normal enocounters do not involve dealing with AEs as a large par tof the incoming damage nor in dealing with large, very slow, damage instances. If, however, the content you and your Templar friend are engaging is content suitable for you to solo heal, then you'll just never see the difference.  Assuming you are your friend are equally geared/spelled go take a group and do the following: Make the Templar do nothing (no buffs, no heals) otehr than Nuke.  Go find the limits of your ability to solo heal that group then push beyond it for a couple wipes to satisfy yourself that you cannot deal with the content.  Then switch roles.  You do nothing but Nuke and let the Templar buff and heal and watch how the group is suddenly able to do content they were unable to do with just you.</span><div></div>

[Aaeamdar]

<span><blockquote><hr>xenocyst wrote:...Adds, depending on the group and the level of the adds are pretty much the only nightmare situation. And even then, if I see them coming I start casting like mad and usually we're ok. ...<hr></blockquote>Just a quicky suggestion on adds.  If there is no serious CC in the group (Templar, Chanter, Bard) and you see an add coming - use root.  It's more effective than trying to heal through the extra damage once they add.</span><div></div>

[Spag]

<DIV>The problem is that root does not stop the mob from melee.  This means if they are already on someone rooting does nothing, unless you get your entire group to move away from the mob.  This can be hard to do, while they are engaged, as many people do not read chat while engaged.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If we are all on team speak, it makes it possible, but to have to use a 3rd party program to coordinate the use of this spell to be used for crowd control, that just does not sound right to me.   Root is nice, but do not consider it crowd control. </DIV>

[Arielle Nightshade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caerwyn wrote:<BR>Templar, while perhaps more difficult to play than their pre-revamp versions, are still far better healers than we are and far easier to play. I group with one a lot, and the difference in healing power is night and day.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Agree...Templar did change, mostly to become dull, lifeless versions of their former selves...sad to say.  Their flavor loss was far worse than ours.  That said, a Templar 7 lvls lower has a bigger heal than I do at 50.5 <BR></P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also..duoing with a Monk yesterday, all the sudden I see "+957" roll off of him.   That was his heal - he popped it to 'help me out'.  </DIV> <DIV><BR>Ouch.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Arielle Nightshade on <span class=date_text>09-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:37 PM</span>

[Croa]

<DIV>Root is quite good crowd control. I can keep the stuff rooted throughout the fight and it reduces the chance of them running at healers/mages standing away from the fight, except of course if the mob has ranged ability.  As for group members backing up out of range, that's not the fault of spell design if a player isn't smart enough to know to try backing up some when they have unwanted aggro.   That should be common practice with or without roots, since it can make it easier to notice the person has aggro and identify what is attacking them when dealing with groups of stuff.</DIV>

[Treve]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Croake wrote:<BR> <DIV>Root is quite good crowd control. I can keep the stuff rooted throughout the fight and it reduces the chance of them running at healers/mages standing away from the fight, except of course if the mob has ranged ability.  As for group members backing up out of range, that's not the fault of spell design if a player isn't smart enough to know to try backing up some when they have unwanted aggro.   That should be common practice with or without roots, since it can make it easier to notice the person has aggro and identify what is attacking them when dealing with groups of stuff.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>i'm having the same problem...i use root as a bit of crowd control, but people within melee range don't generally move away...i think i'm going to create a macro...something like "the <target> as been rooted for 'x' seconds...you can move out of melee range"</DIV>

[Gerrie]

think you are beeing paranoid, but its often hard to get a group. most servers lost a lot of their former population.i m sure nearly-nobody who doesnt play a fury knows that wardens are underpowered. at least i have not met such a one yet and i barely know myself and only because i read around here.There hasnt been a warden lfg for a while when i checked or i would have gladly invited one today

[Tuved2]

<blockquote><hr>Gerrie wrote:think you are beeing paranoid, but its often hard to get a group. most servers lost a lot of their former population.i m sure nearly-nobody who doesnt play a fury knows that wardens are underpowered. at least i have not met such a one yet and i barely know myself and only because i read around here.There hasnt been a warden lfg for a while when i checked or i would have gladly invited one today<hr></blockquote>People know Wardens are gimped now. Also why would a warden join a group with an inquisitor? (Well now it's cause that's the only way we can heal is as backup). Before LU13 we could solo heal a group no probs and needed no other healer in the group.

[Maelakai]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tuved2 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gerrie wrote:<BR>think you are beeing paranoid, but its often hard to get a group. most servers lost a lot of their former population.<BR>i m sure nearly-nobody who doesnt play a fury knows that wardens are underpowered. at least i have not met such a one yet and i barely know myself and only because i read around here.<BR>There hasnt been a warden lfg for a while when i checked or i would have gladly invited one today<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>People know Wardens are gimped now. Also why would a warden join a group with an inquisitor? (Well now it's cause that's the only way we can heal is as backup). Before LU13 we could solo heal a group no probs and needed no other healer in the group.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Most groups who are going after larger targets (orange heroics) will want two healers anyways.  But I agree, wardens are better against slow rolling DPS... but now everything in the game does burst damage...<BR></DIV>

[Gerrie]

raidmobs will probably do longterm damage and with the breeze nerfs.