Our nice aa's.....

[Chanah]

I respecced again and went for battlecleric, which sux big time. why? cos I do about the same or even less dps then with my spells (and yes I did took the 100 % crits on melee) . recast times on our CA's is a joke, its way too longi spend 5 aa's in the fanaticism upgrade.... omg it sux..... considering this is ment for solo? I doubt its for raids, as battlecleric line is useless for raiding. the slowcast and penalty on heals hurts to much. so i'd be better of if i cast all my dots, debuffs and just use the normal fanaticism, as I wouldnt wanna cast anything while under the upgraded fanaticism with those penalties.When the 5 meter range is fixed i wanna go back to it, it only works for all spells except for group  heals and cures...............errrrrrm i wanted to get this for the group heals and cures.Also maladroit is still not working as the description says? only works for uncurable dots? enhance fervent focus only 3 secs per aa? would be nice if it was a little more then only 3... the idea is nice but normal recast is 1 min 26 (for me) 3x5 = 15 so 1 min 11.........it sux.Now I guess you wanna hear some positive things as well, so here goes:Debuffs: convict, debase, forced obedience, nice upgrades, then only 5 more aa in our deaggro (also very usefull after eof came out) to get maladroit....Act of convict upgrade, shame it doesnt really is 8 % but less, just like 5 % before, its not like its every 1 in the 20 hits on every spell/CA/autoattack hit as the description says.... but the idea of upgrading is nice.That's all for the positive part.Would be nice if stuff would get fixed or made more clear in the description.<div></div>

[jago quicksilver]

pretty sure that the reach AA isnt broken, there is a difference between cast range and effect radius

[Chanah]

you sure got a point there<div></div>

[TheSpin]

<DIV>A big benefit of the battle line's combat arts aren't related exactly to how much damage you can do with them compared to how much damage you can do with the nukes.  The fast casting means you can sneak them in while continuing to heal, or you can use them while taking damage without worrying about interupts.  It also gives a lot more time for autoattack damage, which can be pretty signifigant damage if you take the correct AAs.  Also Combat Arts scale up every level so a nuke you get at level 60 will not be any better at level 70 unless you improved your intelligence while the combat art version gets stronger every single level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fanatacism has a lot of use in raids and groups.  The healing portion has some issues right now that take a lot away from it's use, but there are some very nice benefits.  When I'm not needed for heals I can still cure with it up and that means continued haste for the other group members.  It also means debuffs during raids while keeping melee dps going.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Chanah]

<div><blockquote><hr>TheSpin wrote:<div>It also means debuffs during raids while keeping melee dps going.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>imo thats the only usefull thing, to keep debase, convict and forced subm up at all times. but the casting is sooooo slow, think its pretty expensive 5 aa's for it....and reactives, when i have both up, and all my debuffs landed then i might cast fanaticism, but with the upgraded fanaticism the reactives get cut in half, and if i do the same with normal fanaticism the reactives stay the same, im afraid im gonna respec again, back to the range thingie.... on more respec after that and it will cost me 10 plat</div>

[Calain80]

Taking Enhance Fana in its current state ist just plain stupid. Without it you reactives and DOTs will proc for 100% while Fana runs. With Enhance Fana this procs will be nerved while Fana runs. Even all procs from your gear are nerved while Fana runs! So you pay 8 AA Points (3 Heresy + 5 Fana) to be worse then without the AA.Battle Cleric is fine, but Enhance Fana is a pure sucker.

[TheSpin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Calain80 wrote:<BR>Taking Enhance Fana in its current state ist just plain stupid. Without it you reactives and DOTs will proc for 100% while Fana runs. With Enhance Fana this procs will be nerved while Fana runs. Even all procs from your gear are nerved while Fana runs! So you pay 8 AA Points (3 Heresy + 5 Fana) to be worse then without the AA.<BR>Battle Cleric is fine, but Enhance Fana is a pure sucker.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I agree that in it's current state it's very hard to claim it's an upgrade at all.  Especially if you use convert.  If you have convert up and toggle on fanatacism every member who isn't at 100% gets healed for half the amount of a normal convert trigger and it uses twice as much power.  You can drain your power pool with little to no effect on your group's health very quickly with this 'bug'.  </P> <P>I think it would be ideal if they could keep the stifle on all heal spells (reactive and direct) as well as convert.  It's definately not worth casting them with fanatacism going and is the most sensible way I can think of to fix the problem.</P> <P> </P>

[DwarvesR]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheSpin wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Calain80 wrote:<BR>Taking Enhance Fana in its current state ist just plain stupid. Without it you reactives and DOTs will proc for 100% while Fana runs. With Enhance Fana this procs will be nerved while Fana runs. Even all procs from your gear are nerved while Fana runs! So you pay 8 AA Points (3 Heresy + 5 Fana) to be worse then without the AA.<BR>Battle Cleric is fine, but Enhance Fana is a pure sucker.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I agree that in it's current state it's very hard to claim it's an upgrade at all.  Especially if you use convert.  If you have convert up and toggle on fanatacism every member who isn't at 100% gets healed for half the amount of a normal convert trigger and it uses twice as much power.  You can drain your power pool with little to no effect on your group's health very quickly with this 'bug'. </P> <P>I think it would be ideal if they could keep the stifle on all heal spells (reactive and direct) as well as convert.  It's definately not worth casting them with fanatacism going and is the most sensible way I can think of to fix the problem.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>/agree.  It should only remove the stifle for the Battle CA's IMO, and no other benefit *or* penalty.  Would still be pretty steep for 5 AA costm and probably only really useful soloing, but. .  would be something.<BR>

[Catseyes]

i must disagree on battlecleric line . i have 5 ranks in the 4 nukes, battlecleric AA and i can waayyy more solo than before. For record, all my nukes/DoTs were adept 3 or master 1 .  But : - they arent interruptible- They scale with STR , and STR is lot easier to boost than int for us. - max crit for spell is around 20 % or so i believe (like the heal one) , but the  max crit melee is 80 or 100 % - DPS AA from cleric line increase your melee auto-attack, it goes in the way to improve STR.- the +45 crushing help you a lot to hit high mobs- the 10% armor mitig is golden - the 25 power reduction on CA's is golden too.So far ,my increase in DPS ,with a middle STR gear, with DPS + Crit AAs, CAs  is very visible compared to before. When you fight fast hitters, with stuns and interrupts, you are toasted with your spells. Even focus wont help you. Try to solo the vamps in MmC with only spells and say me it's easy to cast a heal... Even in group i bring a lot of help more now, i still heal same ,but during the reactives i use my CAs and during the re-use of CAs i cast fanaticism... ) Dont forget it's int for spell, STR for our new CAs, must swap gear to compare DPS of both sides.ymrir, 70 inqui befallen<div></div>

[TheSpin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Catseyes wrote:<BR>i must disagree on battlecleric line . i have 5 ranks in the 4 nukes, battlecleric AA and i can waayyy more solo than before.<BR>For record, all my nukes/DoTs were adept 3 or master 1 . <BR><BR>But :<BR>- they arent interruptible<BR>- They scale with STR , and STR is lot easier to boost than int for us.<BR>- max crit for spell is around 20 % or so i believe (like the heal one) , but the  max crit melee is 80 or 100 %<BR>- DPS AA from cleric line increase your melee auto-attack, it goes in the way to improve STR.<BR>- the +45 crushing help you a lot to hit high mobs<BR>- the 10% armor mitig is golden<BR>- the 25 power reduction on CA's is golden too.<BR><BR>So far ,my increase in DPS ,with a middle STR gear, with DPS + Crit AAs, CAs  is very visible compared to before.<BR><BR>When you fight fast hitters, with stuns and interrupts, you are toasted with your spells. Even focus wont help you. Try to solo the vamps in MmC with only spells and say me it's easy to cast a heal...<BR><BR>Even in group i bring a lot of help more now, i still heal same ,but during the reactives i use my CAs and during the re-use of CAs i cast fanaticism... )<BR><BR>Dont forget it's int for spell, STR for our new CAs, must swap gear to compare DPS of both sides.<BR><BR>ymrir, 70 inqui befallen<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>There is just one slight mistake on this post.</P> <P>It's not Int for spell and str for CA completely.  The DoT portion of the CAs still use int.</P>

[Adorya]

On a side note, the dps change depending on the hp of the mob whenever you decide on chain using CA or not. I noticed that on melee heroic mob it's just faster to pull out yaulp/fana/autoattack after casting anti-CA than using CAs (using 2sec 2hb with 102 atk rating). Also figuring out the "rythm" of the battle can help also (when to cancel fana for dropping a reac, when to recast debuff...).<div></div>

[quasigenx]

<div><blockquote><hr>TheSpin wrote:<div></div><p>It's not Int for spell and str for CA completely.  The DoT portion of the CAs still use int.</p><hr></blockquote>This is news to me, but makes sense. Can anyone confirm? Might have to invest in some INT adornments.</div>

[Avirodar]

<div><blockquote><hr>Catseyes wrote:i must disagree on battlecleric line . i have 5 ranks in the 4 nukes, battlecleric AA and i can waayyy more solo than before. For record, all my nukes/DoTs were adept 3 or master 1 .  But : - they arent interruptible- They scale with STR , and STR is lot easier to boost than int for us. - max crit for spell is around 20 % or so i believe (like the heal one) , but the  max crit melee is 80 or 100 % - DPS AA from cleric line increase your melee auto-attack, it goes in the way to improve STR.- the +45 crushing help you a lot to hit high mobs- the 10% armor mitig is golden - the 25 power reduction on CA's is golden too.So far ,my increase in DPS ,with a middle STR gear, with DPS + Crit AAs, CAs  is very visible compared to before. When you fight fast hitters, with stuns and interrupts, you are toasted with your spells. Even focus wont help you. Try to solo the vamps in MmC with only spells and say me it's easy to cast a heal... Even in group i bring a lot of help more now, i still heal same ,but during the reactives i use my CAs and during the re-use of CAs i cast fanaticism... ) Dont forget it's int for spell, STR for our new CAs, must swap gear to compare DPS of both sides.ymrir, 70 inqui befallen<div></div><hr></blockquote>I guess Chanah/Ghyro needed to make it a little more obvious that they were talking about raiding situations, not group instances or solo encounters.  The entire EoF AA tree for Inquisitors is pretty great for casual/solo/group players. It is really really really bad for raiders.It is true that for sustained DPS on raid style encounters, nuke damage has an edge over using all of the battlecleric AAs (with 5 points on each), and is significantly safer to do.  I can see no justification in the direct damage battle cleric CA reuse timers being so highly penalised compared to the spell equivalents, unless the damage is increased to make it comparable.Enhance fanaticism is a busted up, sad excuse for a poorly planned and under-tested AA. I have reported and posted about the multitude of issues with this AA from the 2nd or 3rd day of EoF going live. I have never recieved a response from any SoE staff member, or seen any legitimate acknowledgement of the issue (someone did claim that one problem may have been forwarded to QA, if so, it means - Palmed off to another department so it can be tagged, bagged, filed and ignored). The only change SoE has made to Fanaticism since EoF launch was to add "<b>additional casting time,</b>" into the description of Enhance: Fanaticism in the Inquisitor AA tree. I guess I should be happy that someone taken the five seconds of time to add three words to give other Inq's a vague indication of how hard Enhance: Fanaticism will penalise them. But they needed to also add: "<b>Any reactives cast prior to enhanced fanaticism will now have each trigger halved (unlike the non enhanced version). All mana regain times (examples: necro hearts, conj shards, mana stone, regen potions) will be halved. All proc effects from armor (examples: MO bp, princes hammer, DT stein, OoB ring) will be halved. The mana recieved from Chilling Inquest will also be halved.</b>"  I think I covered most of it there. If that gets added in, SoE will finally be making an inroad as to clearly describing how pathetic Enhance: Fanaticism is for an AA that charges 5 points to get,Another big live update has gone in, and wow, shock horror, Enhance: Fanaticism was not fixed.... But I now have pretty new icons for harvesting (yay!!), I can collect love notes from golems (my life is fulfilled!!), and I can do valentines quests for useless rewards (sweet bliss!!). Good to see where the priorities are. Evidently, fixing our broken abilities that has been a reported issue from the EoF release, is not.What really annoys me is this:  If enhance fanaticism was <i>bugged</i> the other way and doubled all our procs, I have no doubt SoE would be fixing it within 1 or 2 days tops. But as it is a bug that makes us suffer, we have to endure it for months, if not forever. I wonder if SoE cares about providing a quality product?Yes, I am cynical. I have given up on hoping for Fanaticism to be fixed any time soon, if ever. We're now into February, EoF came out mid November... This bug has been in play on live servers for almost a quarter of a year. (As I did not play on beta, I am making no claim as to if the problems existed on beta, and/or if it was reported by beta testers).- Avirodar- 70 Inquisitor, Nektulos Server</div>

[TheSpin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> quasigenx wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheSpin wrote:<BR> <P>It's not Int for spell and str for CA completely.  The DoT portion of the CAs still use int.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This is news to me, but makes sense. Can anyone confirm? Might have to invest in some INT adornments.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I found this out by examining the adept 3 version of a nuke the same level I got the nuke.  The debuff and DoT portions of the nuke at that level were the same as the debuff and DoT portions of my corresponding CA.</P> <P>Yes, that means the CAs are like adept 3 nukes, but they scale up every level, use less power, and have 100% chance to crit.</P>

[Avirodar]

<div></div><div><blockquote><blockquote><div> <blockquote> <hr> TheSpin wrote: <div></div> <p>It's not Int for spell and str for CA completely.  The DoT portion of the CAs still use int.</p> <hr> </blockquote>This is news to me, but makes sense. Can anyone confirm? Might have to invest in some INT adornments.</div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>I found this out by examining the adept 3 version of a nuke the same level I got the nuke.  The debuff and DoT portions of the nuke at that level were the same as the debuff and DoT portions of my corresponding CA.</p> <p>Yes, that means the CAs are like adept 3 nukes, but they scale up every level, use less power, and have 100% chance to crit.</p><hr></blockquote>I mean no disrespect, but I have to question your theory, for the following reasons...The damage done by all of our original spell based nukes and DOTs, is based on INT, and the grading of the spell (example: Adept3).EoF "Combat Art" have three user-defined factors. The three DOT's use all three. The two direct damage only use two. Yes, they do scale up a bit as you level up, it is a given, so I will not include that in the factors.Invocation Strike and Litany of Circle (direct damage abilities) are based on STR, and how many AA points are spent on them.The DOTs (Writhing Strike, Strike of Corruption and Strike of Flames) are all based on STR for the very first, initial hit. Every tick of the DOT after the initial hit is based on INT. How many AA's are spent on the DOTs impacts on both the initial damage and dot damage.So to sum it up in short: Because CA nukes are based on STR, and spell nukes are based on INT, unless your STR and INT was the exact same when you were at the exact level you got the nuke, there is no way you can compare the CA's to Adept3 spells. That is without taking into consideration that the scaling of damage modification may be different for STR/INT based abilities.If you wanted to get a real idea of how they actually compare, your best bet is to strip naked at the level you get one of the nukes/dots, and compare the damage done when you have as little int/wis as possible (closer to 0, the better). The debuff amount looks to be close to Adept3, but the damage dealt is about on par with master1.Given their comparable damage comparisons, it is kind of sucks that the reuse timers of EoF CA's are over double that of their spell counterparts, given that a crit is only between 1-30% extra damage.   An extra +1% to +30% crit damage bonus does not compensate for reuse timers that can double, almost triple the spell counterparts.Anyway, that's about that on EoF CA AA's- Avirodar</div><p>Message Edited by Trinral on <span class=date_text>02-02-2007</span> <span class=time_text>08:39 AM</span>

[TheSpin]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trinral wrote:<BR> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheSpin wrote:<BR> <P>It's not Int for spell and str for CA completely.  The DoT portion of the CAs still use int.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This is news to me, but makes sense. Can anyone confirm? Might have to invest in some INT adornments.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I found this out by examining the adept 3 version of a nuke the same level I got the nuke.  The debuff and DoT portions of the nuke at that level were the same as the debuff and DoT portions of my corresponding CA.</P> <P>Yes, that means the CAs are like adept 3 nukes, but they scale up every level, use less power, and have 100% chance to crit.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I mean no disrespect, but I have to question your theory, for the following reasons...<BR><BR>The damage done by all of our original spell based nukes and DOTs, is based on INT, and the grading of the spell (example: Adept3).<BR><BR>EoF "Combat Art" have three user-defined factors. The three DOT's use all three. The two direct damage only use two. <BR>Yes, they do scale up a bit as you level up, it is a given, so I will not include that in the factors.<BR><BR>Invocation Strike and Litany of Circle (direct damage abilities) are based on STR, and how many AA points are spent on them.<BR><BR>The DOTs (Writhing Strike, Strike of Corruption and Strike of Flames) are all based on STR for the very first, initial hit. Every tick of the DOT after the initial hit is based on INT. How many AA's are spent on the DOTs impacts on both the initial damage and dot damage.<BR><BR>So to sum it up in short: Because CA nukes are based on STR, and spell nukes are based on INT, unless your STR and INT was the exact same when you were at the exact level you got the nuke, there is no way you can compare the CA's to Adept3 spells. That is without taking into consideration that the scaling of damage modification may be different for STR/INT based abilities.<BR><BR>If you wanted to get a real idea of how they actually compare, your best bet is to strip naked at the level you get one of the nukes/dots, and compare the damage done when you have as little int/wis as possible (closer to 0, the better). The debuff amount looks to be close to Adept3, but the damage dealt is about on par with master1.<BR><BR>Given their comparable damage comparisons, it is kind of sucks that the reuse timers of EoF CA's are over double that of their spell counterparts, given that a crit is only between 1-30% extra damage.   An extra +1% to +30% crit damage bonus does not compensate for reuse timers that can double, almost triple the spell counterparts.<BR><BR>Anyway, that's about that on EoF CA AA's<BR><BR>- Avirodar<BR></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Trinral on <SPAN class=date_text>02-02-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:39 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I don't know exactly what you're saying that disagrees with my earlier post.  Perhaps I left out a few details.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>**  I examined my 5/5 CA and an adept 3 version of one of the DoT nukes that we get (not sure if it was an upgrade to the fire one or the other one but it doesn't matter).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>**  The adept 3 version of the nuke's damage is based solely on Int, that's pretty common knowledge.  The debuff part is not based on any skill but rather the quality of the spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>**  My STR is signifigantly higher than my Int because I made my character after EoF's release and intended him to be melee specced from the start.  His Str was at least 2 times higher than his Int.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>**  The adept 3 spell's damage range and debuff amount matched exactly to the damage range and debuff amount of the corresponding CA.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My CA's do much more initial damage than they do in their DoT because my STR is signifigantly higher than my Int.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not trying to prove which does more DPS, there are many more benefits to taking the CAs than DPS.  I'm just showing you how I discovered that the DoT portion of the CAs are based on Int, and that the CAs with DoTs are the equivalent of adept 3 DoTs with an added strength based DD portion that can use +melee crit mods and scale up every level.</DIV>