Cleric fabled set Inbalance

[Hennyo]

<div></div><img src="http://eq2.xanadu-community.com/eq2_loot_image.php?img_id=1245"> vs <img src="http://eq2.xanadu-community.com/eq2_loot_image.php?img_id=1267"> disscuss<div></div><div></div><p>Message Edited by Hennyo on <span class="date_text">11-25-2006</span> <span class="time_text">11:36 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Hennyo on <span class=date_text>11-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:38 AM</span>

[JmSte]

<DIV>Hmmm, was looking at the Templar boards a while ago to check out their set and these set bonuses are different than the ones I saw over there.</DIV>

[Frostque]

Ohh look one has had an adorment applied :smileytongue:

[Lanfeare]

Last week or so the links have been throwing up some funny numbers because of a bug, may be something to do with that.

[Hennyo]

well what I saw that I thought was horribly imbalanced that I thought would be obvious to everyone else, is the set bonus. I mean what we get +40 to each of our single target reactive heal, so a total of 200 with all 5 procs, while templars get an extra 4 reactives of their single target reactive which is about 11 times more healing power than our set bonus. Then even the second one is better than ours, 100 hp and 10 extra dps on our buff isnt going to make up for in any way +50 to heals.<div></div>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hennyo wrote:<BR>well what I saw that I thought was horribly imbalanced that I thought would be obvious to everyone else, is the set bonus. I mean what we get +40 to each of our single target reactive heal, so a total of 200 with all 5 procs, while templars get an extra 4 reactives of their single target reactive which is about 11 times more healing power than our set bonus. Then even the second one is better than ours, 100 hp and 10 extra dps on our buff isnt going to make up for in any way +50 to heals.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>considering they have crap for dps and heals are all they have its realy no biggie

[Avirodar]

<DIV>If anyone thinks that templars have no dps, think again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pre-KoS, I personally seen a templar in my guild breaking over 1100 DPS on a large number of occasions. It was by no means a rarity, or fluke. If you have any doubts or queries, feel free to pay a visit to <A href="http://www.eq2disso.com" target=_blank>http://www.eq2disso.com</A> and ask for yourself.</DIV>

[Demoniac]

<div><blockquote><hr>Trinral wrote:<div>If anyone thinks that templars have no dps, think again.</div> <div> </div> <div>Pre-KoS, I personally seen a templar in my guild breaking over 1100 DPS on a large number of occasions. It was by no means a rarity, or fluke. If you have any doubts or queries, feel free to pay a visit to <a href="http://www.eq2disso.com" target="_blank">http://www.eq2disso.com</a> and ask for yourself.</div><hr></blockquote>if you have enough proc items, you can break 1k dps pretty much no matter what class you are.Templars are only good for undead mobs.  </div>

[Avirodar]

<P>Sorry Jina, but I am pretty sure Elrohn (templar) would have to disagree with you.</P> <P>He is spec'd for healing, not dps. He has never loaded up on damage proc items. He has frequently and repeatedly exceeeded 1100 dps on a number of encounters from a number of zones, including DT, HoS, Lyceym and Labs. (ie: pretty much all the KoS zones). He simply kicks the snot out of stuff.</P> <P>As for undead mobs, there is no shortage of them in the game, and yes, templars are very good against those foes. No argument there. It's just definitely not the only place templars are good :-/</P> <P>- Avi</P>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trinral wrote:<BR> <P>Sorry Jina, but I am pretty sure Elrohn (templar) would have to disagree with you.</P> <P>He is spec'd for healing, not dps. He has never loaded up on damage proc items. He has frequently and repeatedly exceeeded 1100 dps on a number of encounters from a number of zones, including DT, HoS, Lyceym and Labs. (ie: pretty much all the KoS zones). He simply kicks the snot out of stuff.</P> <P>As for undead mobs, there is no shortage of them in the game, and yes, templars are very good against those foes. No argument there. It's just definitely not the only place templars are good :-/</P> <P>- Avi</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>im bettign he has a 2 hnded hammer with a large damage range  and the 100% melee crit line that shared

[Demoniac]

<div><blockquote><hr>Trinral wrote:<div></div> <p>Sorry Jina, but I am pretty sure Elrohn (templar) would have to disagree with you.</p> <p>He is spec'd for healing, not dps. He has never loaded up on damage proc items. He has frequently and repeatedly exceeeded 1100 dps on a number of encounters from a number of zones, including DT, HoS, Lyceym and Labs. (ie: pretty much all the KoS zones). He simply kicks the snot out of stuff.</p> <p>As for undead mobs, there is no shortage of them in the game, and yes, templars are very good against those foes. No argument there. It's just definitely not the only place templars are good :-/</p> <p>- Avi</p><hr></blockquote>hmm.. well it depends I think.. it depends on the group setup too.. for example, if a templar group with a fury, that will increase his spell damage like 25% ( around 200 intell increased ), a troubador gives good mental proc, a wizard, warlock they give good melee proc ( like 40 dps increase I think ) without those procs, it's not possible to hit that high. every single spell, it has a maxium dps output. the maxium dps = spell maxium damage / ( cast timer + recast timer ). even you add them all up, it's still a lot of shorter than 1k. that's what I mean.</div>

[Tarta]

<DIV>Just to bring back on topic, I agree with the OP on set bonus 3. Seems like they need to bump our set bonus a little - ok, ok.. a lot. I'm not saying it has to be completely even, becuase theirs could still time out (not likely on a raid, but that's beside the point).. ours heals for greater per tick, which IMO is a tad more valuable. But the difference in overall healing needs to be narrowed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For set bonus 5, I'd personally rather have the bonuses to aura. A "up to 50" bonus to healing spells doesn't currently seem to add up to much since they are capped to a max benefit based on the heal amount and/or normalized to 3 sec cast time. I think my "up to 40" bonus from an adornment added like 6hp to convert, which is just lame. I get somewhere less than 40 on my small heal as well, because it only takes 2 seconds to cast it.</DIV>

[Spider]

<P>ok im thinking that a lot of people dont see the signifigance of our melee dps </P> <P> </P> <P>so heres a breif  breakdown on crits </P> <P>ok whit melee crit  your minimum damage is the max damage of the weapon x the speed slower the weapon the harder you hit </P> <P>and ur damage increase over max depeds on the range of min max damage of the weapon </P> <P>therefore a weapon with a 50 -100 damage and 2 speed  vs a weapon with a 10-100 damage and a 2 speed the second weapon will be the better choice , and since you (with 100% crit) will always hit the max you want as much range as possible </P> <P>so with one fo the best weapons in the game ive seen to date for us  ( cant rember the name)  its a 2 hnded hammer with a damage range of somethign like 1-498 and a 4 speed  , adding in our 100% crit chance , our yaulp functions , our dps buff ,and our fanatisisim  (+plus any other group buffs) we can literealy auto attack and dps nearly as much as most scouts </P> <P>add in out new ca's  and the ability to use them durring fanat. and you can see where our dps can get truly great in proportion  as long as we have a nicely rounded str and wis were golden </P>

[Demoniac]

Well, you right. and your speech is completely right. i totally agree. that's how does the weapon works but I wasn't really talking about auto attack :  )  i was talking about CA or spell dps. but I think they ain't work that way. for instance, you have a level 1, like tin hammer, try to use your CA how much damage it does? try to use a tier 7 2 hander. how much damage your CA does?? now try the god ability, you can see it very easy way, some damage is like 7900, some are like 9700 ( rallos' devestation )again, I do agree with you, sir. but we ain't talking about the same thing<span>:smileywink:</span><div></div>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Demoniac wrote:<BR>Well, you right. and your speech is completely right. i totally agree. that's how does the weapon works <BR><BR>but I wasn't really talking about auto attack :  )  i was talking about CA or spell dps. but I think they ain't work that way. for instance, you have a level 1, like tin hammer, try to use your CA how much damage it does? try to use a tier 7 2 hander. how much damage your CA does?? now try the god ability, you can see it very easy way, some damage is like 7900, some are like 9700 ( rallos' devestation )<BR><BR>again, I do agree with you, sir. but we ain't talking about the same thing<SPAN>:smileywink:</SPAN><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>now try those same ca's with 100% melee crit cahnce which btw DOES effect ca damage and then add in teh massive damage your dishing out with auto atack which UNLIKE spells doesnt reset the attack timer on your weapon and you realize you can dish out a great deal of damage all while producing the same great healing inbetween

[Demoniac]

 I got 100% crits since the first week of kos. i don't have to try it again. melee damage is awesome. I never say it wasn't good. crits does help on the CAs, but you ain't doing maxium damage all the time.. example simple effect. my rallos' devestation do 7900-9800 damage.. it should be like 7900 or 9800 or something even closer.. so basically those CA crits doesn't follow the weapon rules...so what's your prove? <div></div>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Demoniac wrote:<BR> I got 100% crits since the first week of kos. i don't have to try it again. melee damage is awesome. I never say it wasn't good. <BR><BR><BR>crits does help on the CAs, but you ain't doing maxium damage all the time.. example simple effect. my rallos' devestation do 7900-9800 damage.. it should be like 7900 or 9800 or something even closer.. so basically those CA crits doesn't follow the weapon rules...<BR><BR>so what's your prove? <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>well if your ca's arnt criting every hit then theres a problem because melee crit effects ca's therefore you have whats called a bug and should /bug it in game </P>

[Demoniac]

nah.. all my ca crits.. the numbers just like790080008100820085009100930095009700you can't really say these numbers are not right or you say the mitigation makes some difference..<div></div>

[Demoniac]

well.. i think all CA damage crits follow the same rules. you can ask a scout or a fighter about this question. for example you can ask an assassin about the decap how much damage he does when the ca crits.. it's a damage range like 8k-14k not a number.<div></div>

[Spider]

<DIV>with ca crits rather than being based on the weapon damage its based on ca damage and damage range so it said ca does 400-500 damage it will do 500 + damage as if it were a weapon  but i must say im not 1005 sure speed calculates in this instance</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Demoniac]

hope i didn't misunderstand what you said...if a CA damage range is 400-500, the damage will be 400 x 1.3 - 500 x 1.3  that's 520-650. they are higher than 500 that's for sure. but they ain't always do 500 x 1.3 = 650 damage. it will be a damage range like 520-650.<div></div>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Demoniac wrote:<BR>hope i didn't misunderstand what you said...<BR><BR>if a CA damage range is 400-500, the damage will be 400 x 1.3 - 500 x 1.3  that's 520-650. they are higher than 500 that's for sure. but they ain't always do 500 x 1.3 = 650 damage. it will be a damage range like 520-650.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>with all crits it can roll below max damage but if that happens its auto rounded up to max base damage ( in this case 500) as a function of the crit system

[Solar_Fla]

It has been proven that all CA's crit for 1.3. Since all our melee attacks do indeed crit with that AA every CA is going to do MINIMUM that much, it can actually do more damage than that depending on the debuffs on the mob. The reason they do more on a mob with debuffs doesn't quite make sense cause the thing says it only does it for this much but I have seen it crit for diffrent amounts on diffrent targets. So I am not entirely sure why it does that but your crits will get more powerful too during epic fights whenever certain debuffs get on it. Debuffing mitigation does increase your damage on a mob however your damage will never go below that of /weaponstats says for the weapon. It can do more than that but requires debuff to get higher.

[menelaus109]

<div><blockquote><hr>Solar_Flare wrote:<div></div>It has been proven that all CA's crit for 1.3. Since all our melee attacks do indeed crit with that AA every CA is going to do MINIMUM that much, it can actually do more damage than that depending on the debuffs on the mob. The reason they do more on a mob with debuffs doesn't quite make sense cause the thing says it only does it for this much but I have seen it crit for diffrent amounts on diffrent targets. So I am not entirely sure why it does that but your crits will get more powerful too during epic fights whenever certain debuffs get on it. Debuffing mitigation does increase your damage on a mob however your damage will never go below that of /weaponstats says for the weapon. It can do more than that but requires debuff to get higher.<hr></blockquote>CA's do not crit for 1.3, they add 30% so you will often get a CA crit of less then max damageMelee autoattack crits for (after DPS boosts) for max +1 to max +30%Spells crit for max +1 to max +30%Check this thread for more details<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=111347" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=111347</a>The only time this may seem confusing is when the ratio of min:max damage of 4:5 and in that case a crit will always be above the max damage, when in actual fact the crit is adding 30% to the minimum <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=111347" target=_blank></a></div>

[JmSte]

<P>Why does every thread end up with these [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] conversations about DPS? </P> <P>Anyways, back to the original topic, at first glance it does seem to be overpowered but either way, temps get their bonuses to group reactives and we get ours to single target reactives - of course I'd be happier with a couple extra triggers of the spell but I can't complain about the extra healage.  We can cast singles often enough for it to somewhat balance out.  I personally like the bonuses to consecrated aura over the symmettry X - there's already so much of that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] out there to give bonuses to our heals and spells.</P>

[Hennyo]

btw Glorious Intercession IS the templar single target reactive, its the same heal thats moddifyed on both amour sets. Either that or the templar spell list on their class forum is wrong, which I seriously would think not.<div></div>

[sunyata39]

<div><blockquote><hr>Hennyo wrote:<div></div><img src="http://eq2.xanadu-community.com/eq2_loot_image.php?img_id=1245"> vs <img src="http://eq2.xanadu-community.com/eq2_loot_image.php?img_id=1267"> disscuss<div></div><div></div><p>Message Edited by Hennyo on <span class="date_text">11-25-2006</span> <span class="time_text">11:36 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Hennyo on <span class="date_text">11-25-2006</span> <span class="time_text">11:38 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Hrm... Well i see a dead link to the pics. So I have no idea what you're talking about. Anyone have this?</div>

[JmSte]

<DIV>Holy [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] you're right.  I just assumed that it would have to be the group one if it was to get 4 extra triggers.  What a bunch of bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].....  Did they have seperate devs create each of these sets and not look at each others work? I'd be surprised if this didn't get changed....</DIV>

[PhroZenAssassin]

<P>Lol. Nothing needs to change. </P> <P>Set piece's are nice. One thing SoE have done right in this Expansion, including the time to get the full set.</P>

[Tarta]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PhroZenAssassin wrote:<BR> <P>Lol. Nothing needs to change. </P> <P>Set piece's are nice. One thing SoE have done right in this Expansion, including the time to get the full set.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Dude, please. All you need is 3 pieces to nearly double your single-reacitve. Don't try to suggest you need the full set for this benefit.</P> <P>The other thing is that nobody was saying set pieces aren't nice, they're just [Removed for Content] that templar's set peice is so much nicer than ours at 3 pieces.</P> <P> </P>

[Azuraelle]

This Inquisitor set is quiet interesting, but it lacks something important: ministration.Ffs we are HEALER not DPS! Ministration is the main skill for a healer, even Paladin got some ministration bonus on their set. Why the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] don't we have this instead of a subjugation or focus bonus? Fix this please.<div></div>

[jago quicksilver]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>primaryKey wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> PhroZenAssassin wrote: <div></div> <p>Lol. Nothing needs to change. </p> <p>Set piece's are nice. One thing SoE have done right in this Expansion, including the time to get the full set.</p> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Dude, please. All you need is 3 pieces to nearly double your single-reacitve. Don't try to suggest you need the full set for this benefit.</p> <p>The other thing is that nobody was saying set pieces aren't nice, they're just [Removed for Content] that templar's set peice is so much nicer than ours at 3 pieces.</p> <hr></blockquote>why is it nicer? yeah it has more procs, but in almost any situation i can think of (barring encounters of 5+ mobs) more heal per proc would be more beneficial, seeing how the single target reactive is easily kept up 100% of the time. it may be less power efficient, but if you worry about power as an inquis, you are doing something wrong</div><p>Message Edited by jago quicksilver on <span class=date_text>11-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:23 AM</span>

[JmSte]

<DIV>It would only take 6 hits within like 7-9 seconds or somethin like that for theirs to be more beneficial (and it's not like this is uncommon now) - they wouldn't even have to use all 9 triggers to be healing more.  I never said theirs needs to be changed, but one or the other should be.</DIV>

[jago quicksilver]

Each one is better in different situations, but if both new versions of the spell get used to the full potential of the spell its a ridiculous gap. how much more overall healing Templar's Adds compared to ours is asinine. broken down into %, theirs adds 80% to the effectiveness of the heal, while ours adds about 10%. i'll admit that at first glance i didnt look into this much, but now that i can really see the huge gap in the efficiency of the upgraded spells, something needs to be done to balance this some.

[Spider]

personaly ill take the larger heal per reactive  considering our biggest weakness isnt in number of procs its when somethign isnt hitting a lot but hit very hard when it does and in those cases  ( which are often) We come out way on top

[JmSte]

<DIV>I'd have to say I've seen a lot more tanks die from our reactives dropping too fast compared to how many I've seen drop because each trigger didn't heal for 40 points more.  Seriously, think about it for a second; their single target reactive is now basically the same as a group reactive except now it a) doesn't eat up AE's that are healed through much better by a druid and b) can be recasted twice as fast.  Our set bonus doesn't entirely suck or anything, but could definitely use some improvements.</DIV>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JmStein wrote:<BR> <DIV>I'd have to say I've seen a lot more tanks die from our reactives dropping too fast compared to how many I've seen drop because each trigger didn't heal for 40 points more.  Seriously, think about it for a second; their single target reactive is now basically the same as a group reactive except now it a) doesn't eat up AE's that are healed through much better by a druid and b) can be recasted twice as fast.  Our set bonus doesn't entirely suck or anything, but could definitely use some improvements.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>if you say so chief but tbh i dont seem to have a problem keeping my reactives up and most other inquis dont either and since its healing for a lot more you dont hve to spam the crud out fo them as much so whats the problem ?

[JmSte]

<DIV>If you've been raiding in EoF you would know that there is A LOT more going on than just maintaining a reactive on the main tank this time around.  There's often a second tank off-tanking several adds, multiple AE's, and even more stuns than before.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, if you're so entirely convinced that reactives never wear off, then just think of how easy it would be for a templar to maintain their singles on two different tanks at a time with only three pieces of this set - according to you it'd be a walk in the park.</DIV>

[Demoniac]

<div><blockquote><hr>lspiderl wrote:<div></div>if you say so chief but tbh i dont seem to have a problem keeping my reactives up and most other inquis dont either and since its healing for a lot more you dont hve to spam the crud out fo them as much so whats the problem ?<hr></blockquote>I think most of the inquisitors have the problems to keep the tank or group life. most of us have this problem. for example, a mob hit a tank for 1k+ plus.. the reactive doesn't really heal the tank even you put both single reactive and group reactive up. the tank still drop hp. simplely it doesn't heal...we have to use our direct heal to spam like mad to be able to heal the group.another example, a raid mob does 2-3 k both cold and heat damage ( with 10k cold and heat resistance ) every 30 seconds. very common huh? I have to point my finger to any inquisitor in this world and say Yo, you can't solo heal this. you will need 2 healers for this group. as a warden, he can keep up this group alife without any problem not at all.. see the problem? </div>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Demoniac wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote:<BR> <BR>if you say so chief but tbh i dont seem to have a problem keeping my reactives up and most other inquis dont either and since its healing for a lot more you dont hve to spam the crud out fo them as much so whats the problem ?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I think most of the inquisitors have the problems to keep the tank or group life. most of us have this problem. <BR><BR>for example, a mob hit a tank for 1k+ plus.. the reactive doesn't really heal the tank even you put both single reactive and group reactive up. the tank still drop hp. simplely it doesn't heal...we have to use our direct heal to spam like mad to be able to heal the group.<BR><BR>another example, a raid mob does 2-3 k both cold and heat damage ( with 10k cold and heat resistance ) every 30 seconds. very common huh? I have to point my finger to any inquisitor in this world and say Yo, you can't solo heal this. you will need 2 healers for this group. as a warden, he can keep up this group alife without any problem not at all.. see the problem? <BR><BR><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>well like i said i havent done much in eof yet but i did take a group through the instance in steamfont and klak anon last night and solo healed it just fine  ( i know its not a raid but as i said i havent had a chance to raid there yet ) and yes we did hunt all the names in the zones

[Demoniac]

I am not lying. most of the dof named their AE is about 30 seconds reuse timer and i haven't seen any named has 1 AE only. most of them they got 2 or 3 AEs. that means you will need to face the 2 eyeballs in dt. there is no way there is no chance to solo heal that group in the raid for us. you will get interrupted a lot by the AE. so basically you will need 2 healers for each group. only warden or a fury can solo heal the group. that's what I mean. it's completely mission impossible. it's not even close<div></div>

[PhroZenAssassin]

<DIV>The set peices are geared for raiding. I know Inquisitors who can't wait for their Fabled sets to improve raiding. You won't need +4 more reactives on your single reactive for grouping, Most group zones I go in, bar Mistmoore Castle, the mobs are usually dead before group and/or single reactive has dropped.</DIV>

[BlackFlowe]

<P>Try an actual raid.  All single group instances in game can be solo healed.</P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>well like i said i havent done much in eof yet but i did take a group through the instance in steamfont and klak anon last night and solo healed it just fine  ( i know its not a raid but as i said i havent had a chance to raid there yet ) and yes we did hunt all the names in the zones<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Demoniac]

I would suggest devs do some changes.1. nerf the mob's AE from actually 30 seconds --> 36 seconds or 45 seconds. so the raid will no longer need that much heal. ( we still far away from a durids though )2. fix the group reactive doesn't heal the big ae issue. ( or make it like a hot, heal over time ) I don't want a unique freaking reactive and does nothing to the raid. I play this game to raid if the raid is broken. i don't have to pay for the game. <div></div>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Demoniac wrote:<BR>I would suggest devs do some changes.<BR><BR>1. nerf the mob's AE from actually 30 seconds --> 36 seconds or 45 seconds. so the raid will no longer need that much heal. ( we still far away from a durids though )<BR><BR>2. fix the group reactive doesn't heal the big ae issue. ( or make it like a hot, heal over time ) I don't want a unique freaking reactive and does nothing to the raid. I play this game to raid if the raid is broken. i don't have to pay for the game. <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>personaly i would like to see our reactive take on an after effect like wards where any heals not proced at the end gives a heal to the group</P> <P> </P>

[JmSte]

<P>If I were a templar I'd be a lot more excited about my fabled set than I am as an Inquis - there's so many more benefits from extra triggers than a small heal bonus.</P> <P>In T5, we actually did have an after effect on our reactives but it was taken away - every time our reactive used all its triggers an additional amount of HP was healed.  Why this was taken away I never knew, but I wouldn't expect somethin like this to be added back.</P>

[PhroZenAssassin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlackFlowers wrote:<BR> <P>Try an actual raid.  All single group instances in game can be solo healed.</P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>well like i said i havent done much in eof yet but i did take a group through the instance in steamfont and klak anon last night and solo healed it just fine  ( i know its not a raid but as i said i havent had a chance to raid there yet ) and yes we did hunt all the names in the zones<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Exactly my point. Group instances are G I M P, you can solo heal with adp1 spells I bet if you have the slightest bit of skill. On a raid you will probably be using group heal and spot heals (unless ofc you don't have a templar available for mt and/or off tank group which is highly unlikely since there are still loads of templars around!). I know I raid to get gear to improve my raiding, not improve my group instance ability.

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PhroZenAssassin wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlackFlowers wrote:<BR> <P>Try an actual raid.  All single group instances in game can be solo healed.</P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>well like i said i havent done much in eof yet but i did take a group through the instance in steamfont and klak anon last night and solo healed it just fine  ( i know its not a raid but as i said i havent had a chance to raid there yet ) and yes we did hunt all the names in the zones<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Exactly my point. Group instances are G I M P, you can solo heal with adp1 spells I bet if you have the slightest bit of skill. On a raid you will probably be using group heal and spot heals (unless ofc you don't have a templar available for mt and/or off tank group which is highly unlikely since there are still loads of templars around!). I know I raid to get gear to improve my raiding, not improve my group instance ability.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>well keep in mind a lot of us raid on super hard mode </P> <P>meaning were on a pvp server so besides the fact that we can be attacked by the other faction durring any contested raid mob we also only have half the avalible classes so our only healer choices for fp are inquis defiler,warden and fury <BR></P>

[PhroZenAssassin]

<P>Meiling, why are you even concerned atm?</P> <P>"Adventure Profession (53)"</P> <P>And, that's a choice you took when you played PvP, you knew you was only going to have certain classes available, quit your whining and deal with your choice. Btw, theres little difference between qeynos to freeport healing on raids in PvP, Freeport has Defilers, Qeynos has Templars, Wardens and Furies are neutral.. So Freeport has the "better" shaman, Qeynos has the "better" cleric.</P><p>Message Edited by PhroZenAssassin on <span class=date_text>12-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:42 AM</span>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PhroZenAssassin wrote:<BR> <P>Meiling, why are you even concerned atm?</P> <P>"Adventure Profession (53)"</P> <P>And, that's a choice you took when you played PvP, you knew you was only going to have certain classes available, quit your whining and deal with your choice. Btw, theres little difference between qeynos to freeport healing on raids in PvP, Freeport has Defilers, Qeynos has Templars, Wardens and Furies are neutral.. So Freeport has the "better" shaman, Qeynos has the "better" cleric.</P> <P>Message Edited by PhroZenAssassin on <SPAN class=date_text>12-05-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:42 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>see thats where ur wrong bro im NOT whining i LOVE my pvp server im just pointing out facts 

[jago quicksilver]

<div><blockquote><hr>lspiderl wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> PhroZenAssassin wrote: <div></div> <div></div> <p>Meiling, why are you even concerned atm?</p> <p>"Adventure Profession (53)"</p> <p>And, that's a choice you took when you played PvP, you knew you was only going to have certain classes available, quit your whining and deal with your choice. Btw, theres little difference between qeynos to freeport healing on raids in PvP, Freeport has Defilers, Qeynos has Templars, Wardens and Furies are neutral.. So Freeport has the "better" shaman, Qeynos has the "better" cleric.</p> <p>Message Edited by PhroZenAssassin on <span class="date_text">12-05-2006</span> <span class="time_text">12:42 AM</span> </p><hr> </blockquote>see thats where ur wrong bro im NOT whining i LOVE my pvp server im just pointing out facts <hr></blockquote>what do you know about raiding and what a raiding inquisitor needs? what do you know about our healing vs. other heals on raids? dont derail the thread posting about pvp bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. you are not high enough to even wear this gear, so please dont derail threads when people who can want their concerns addressed.</div>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jago quicksilver wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PhroZenAssassin wrote:<BR> <P>Meiling, why are you even concerned atm?</P> <P>"Adventure Profession (53)"</P> <P>And, that's a choice you took when you played PvP, you knew you was only going to have certain classes available, quit your whining and deal with your choice. Btw, theres little difference between qeynos to freeport healing on raids in PvP, Freeport has Defilers, Qeynos has Templars, Wardens and Furies are neutral.. So Freeport has the "better" shaman, Qeynos has the "better" cleric.</P> <P>Message Edited by PhroZenAssassin on <SPAN class=date_text>12-05-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:42 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>see thats where ur wrong bro im NOT whining i LOVE my pvp server im just pointing out facts <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>what do you know about raiding and what a raiding inquisitor needs? what do you know about our healing vs. other heals on raids? dont derail the thread posting about pvp bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. you are not high enough to even wear this gear, so please dont derail threads when people who can want their concerns addressed.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>bah im done with noobs like you that think you know it all because your lvl freaking 70 you sir are a [Removed for Content]  and the sentance your responding to has nothing to do with your responce your simply looking for a reason to flame </P> <P>the sad thing is at lvl 53 ive probably done more quality raiding than you will do in a life time </P> <P>just being 70 doesnt give you ultimate knowledge about your  class  so get off it and get over yourself </P>

[Spider]

oh and just an fyi there are raids start as low as the 20's chief  and they are in MANY ways ten times harder than later lvl raids because you dont have half the skills of the class yet  lets see you raid landon or the gobbler while it cons white or yellow or oj  to you W/O mentoring down to it chief not to mention epic angler and many other raids dont require you to be 70 either so get off it no one cares that u powerrginded to 70 on an ez mode server and now think u know all there is to know  

[jago quicksilver]

<div><blockquote><hr>lspiderl wrote:<div></div>oh and just an fyi there are raids start as low as the 20's chief  and they are in MANY ways ten times harder than later lvl raids because you dont have half the skills of the class yet  lets see you raid landon or the gobbler while it cons white or yellow or oj  to you W/O mentoring down to it chief not to mention epic angler and many other raids dont require you to be 70 either so get off it no one cares that u powerrginded to 70 on an ez mode server and now think u know all there is to know  <hr></blockquote>you do realize that most the people that are talking about this armor raided rognog and many harder mobs before you even started playing this game? my point was that you are not level 70, therefore you really have no idea what the game is like at the high end, so how could you possibly know what we need for raiding at the endgame? and lawl at your ezmode comment, what does pvp have to do with anything?</div>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jago quicksilver wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote:<BR> oh and just an fyi there are raids start as low as the 20's chief  and they are in MANY ways ten times harder than later lvl raids because you dont have half the skills of the class yet  lets see you raid landon or the gobbler while it cons white or yellow or oj  to you W/O mentoring down to it chief not to mention epic angler and many other raids dont require you to be 70 either so get off it no one cares that u powerrginded to 70 on an ez mode server and now think u know all there is to know  <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>you do realize that most the people that are talking about this armor raided rognog and many harder mobs before you even started playing this game? my point was that you are not level 70, therefore you really have no idea what the game is like at the high end, so how could you possibly know what we need for raiding at the endgame? and lawl at your ezmode comment, what does pvp have to do with anything?<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>to the first part whats your point ive been playing mmo's and interenet games of all kinds since DOS  do you realy think that eq2 is that original chief ? i mean cmon half this stuff was ripped straight from old school MUDs . in addition theres the simple fact that  I CAN READ ( can you) meaning i can read and study everything tehre is to know about it and belive me there is LOTS to read on it  , not to mention all the friends i have both in and out of game that  ARE 70 and DO RAID CONSTANTLY  like my best friend  and rl neighbor who was playing on befallen and raiding  since day one b4 deleting and rerolling to join me on vox </P> <P>second as for the ez mode comment you try doing half the raids you do with only half the classes to pick from AND while being attacked constantly through the whole proccess by people of the oposite faction and then try and tell me how hard it is on a pve server </P> <P>you sir are a [Removed for Content] and prove it time and time again  so take your biased , know-it-all comments and go back to your toy server and play with your pretend raids  and leave the adult conversation to the adults </P>

[jago quicksilver]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>lspiderl wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> jago quicksilver wrote: <div> <blockquote> <hr> lspiderl wrote: <div></div>oh and just an fyi there are raids start as low as the 20's chief  and they are in MANY ways ten times harder than later lvl raids because you dont have half the skills of the class yet  lets see you raid landon or the gobbler while it cons white or yellow or oj  to you W/O mentoring down to it chief not to mention epic angler and many other raids dont require you to be 70 either so get off it no one cares that u powerrginded to 70 on an ez mode server and now think u know all there is to know   <hr> </blockquote>you do realize that most the people that are talking about this armor raided rognog and many harder mobs before you even started playing this game? my point was that you are not level 70, therefore you really have no idea what the game is like at the high end, so how could you possibly know what we need for raiding at the endgame? and lawl at your ezmode comment, what does pvp have to do with anything?</div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>to the first part whats your point ive been playing mmo's and interenet games of all kinds since DOS  do you realy think that eq2 is that original chief ? i mean cmon half this stuff was ripped straight from old school MUDs . in addition theres the simple fact that  I CAN READ ( can you) meaning i can read and study everything tehre is to know about it and belive me there is LOTS to read on it  , not to mention all the friends i have both in and out of game that  ARE 70 and DO RAID CONSTANTLY  like my best friend  and rl neighbor who was playing on befallen and raiding  since day one b4 deleting and rerolling to join me on vox </p> <p>second as for the ez mode comment you try doing half the raids you do with only half the classes to pick from AND while being attacked constantly through the whole proccess by people of the oposite faction and then try and tell me how hard it is on a pve server </p> <p>you sir are a [Removed for Content] and prove it time and time again  so take your biased , know-it-all comments and go back to your toy server and play with your pretend raids  and leave the adult conversation to the adults </p><hr></blockquote>lol, what does any other MMO have to do with this one? i really dont care what your opinions are on PvE vs. PvP, because it has nothing to do with what we are discussing. what does your neighbor have to do with our Raid gear? no matter what level  they are you cannot wear this gear. also, please pray tell, what have i said that shows my stupidity? also, who is biased? i have said nothing at all about your server, and listen to your high and mighty attitude about PvP. anyways, ill leave you be, im here to try and help my class out, not flame.</div><p>Message Edited by jago quicksilver on <span class=date_text>12-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:31 PM</span>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jago quicksilver wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>lol, what does any other MMO have to do with this one? i really dont care what your opinions are on PvE vs. PvP, because it has nothing to do with what we are discussing. what does your neighbor have to do with our Raid gear? no matter what level  they are you cannot wear this gear. also, please pray tell, what have i said that shows my stupidity? also, who is biased? i have said nothing at all about your server, and listen to your high and mighty attitude about PvP. <BR><BR>anyways, ill leave you be, im here to try and help my class out, not flame.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <P>Message Edited by jago quicksilver on <SPAN class=date_text>12-05-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:31 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>i love how you attack me time and time again then try to flip it around you attack me about being on a pvp server so i defend that  and you attack me about it not being relevant when the only reason i spoke on it is BECAUSE you brought it up </P> <P>then u try and say what do i knwo about what kind of gear an inquis needs ? are you brain dead ? and inquis needs the same kinda stuff no MATTER WHAT lvl they are we need mostly wis , int and str  and high mitigation everythign else is icing  and people can pick and choose there personal favorite icing  </P> <P>you attack my experiance in raiding so i cite MULTIPLE souces of knowledge for raiding and you try to bring it to waht does my friend have to do with inquis raid gear you sir ARE a [Removed for Content] and im not the least bit supprized that you dont know how you proved it </P>

[BlytheSpirit]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>lspiderl wrote:<div></div><p>bah im done with noobs like you that think you know it all because your lvl freaking 70 you sir are a [Removed for Content] </p><hr></blockquote>Please refrain from personal attacks, this is contrary to the forum terms of conduct and further insults will be removed from this thread.In addition, this thread was started to discuss the cleric fabled armor set, please remain on topic or it may be necessary to lock the thread.  Personal discussions should be taken to private messages, or private forums. This message has been brought to you by the orphan baby ratongas fund, and the letter B.  Thanks for your understanding.  We now return you to your regularly scheduled armor discussion.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlytheSpirit wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote:<BR> <P>bah im done with noobs like you that think you know it all because your lvl freaking 70 you sir are a [Removed for Content] </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Please refrain from personal attacks, this is contrary to the forum terms of conduct and further insults will be removed from this thread.<BR><BR>In addition, this thread was started to discuss the cleric fabled armor set, please remain on topic or it may be necessary to lock the thread.  Personal discussions should be taken to private messages, or private forums. <BR><BR>This message has been brought to you by the orphan baby ratongas fund, and the letter B.  Thanks for your understanding.  We now return you to your regularly scheduled armor discussion.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>id be more than happy to comply with that if every post i make wasnt attacked by peopel that seem to think that if your not lvl 70 you dont know what your talking about so take it up them them first chief  because im sick and tired of the wannabie leet squad trashing everyone that istn lvl 70 yet acting liek they know everything there is to know and nothign we can say is valid

[BlytheSpirit]

<div></div>All of us still have lots we don't know, me, them, you, everyone.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Disagreements are welcome, however according to the forum <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=faq&message.id=25" target="_blank">rules of conduct</a>, everybody needs to (1) stay on topic, and (2) be polite and refrain from personal attacks.  Anybody in this thread, level 1 or level 70, who breaks those rules will be moderated. If you feel any post has broken the rules of conduct, you can report it by clicking on the "Options" drop-down and selecting the "report as abuse to moderator" option.  (Kinda like flashing the bat-symbol up on the clouds, and mods come to the rescue.  OK, yeah, except we're not as cool looking as batman, but humour me here. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )Regardless of who insulted whom first, the thread is still about the cleric fabled armor set, and subsequent posts should remain on topic please.   Discussions of raid tiers and difficulty and other matters can go to another thread, or personal messages.<div></div>

[Tarta]

<P>Forum mods in the inqui forums... it's not a good day for us... I'm going to try to get this back on track with another observation. The fixed reactive bonus of +40 or whatever does not scale with Spell quality and healing adornments as the Templar version does. Here's some numbers:</P> <P>                                                                                   master 1 avg<BR>                             adept 1 avg   master 1 avg    + 100 healing adornments<BR>single reactive             361              486.5                    501.5<BR>5 procs total              1805            2432.5                  2507.5<BR>   <BR>templar bonus           1444             1946                    2006<BR>% improvement      80.00%          80.00%               80.00%<BR>   <BR>inquisitor bonus           200              200                       200<BR>% improvement      11.08%            8.22%                 7.98%<BR></P> <P>The difference in the bonus is bad, but the kicker is that their's gets even better with higher quality spells, while ours stays insignificant. Templar bonus goes from about 7 times better than ours at adept 1 to as much as 10 times better at master 1 with a few adornments.</P> <P>I realize the value of having higher per-reactive heals, but seriously this needs to be adjusted some - and preferrably not by a static number. Let's say leave the templar bonus in and adjust inquisitors to each proc of the reactive is +40% or something like that. Templar's reactives would still go much further (twice as far, in fact) in the long run, but they could time-out, too.</P> <P> </P>

[Hennyo]

I believe the templar set may have been nerfed to, two extra reactives but I havent been able to get a recent look at the gear so if anyone has any information that would help.<div></div>

[JmSte]

<DIV>I believe the 2 extra reactives was early beta - apparently that wasn't good enough.  The live links and pics I'm seeing now are 4 triggers lol.</DIV>