people wake up [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Israphil

11-09-2006, 11:12 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>Demoniac wrote:there is a few things... if you can understand what i say here.. you can do at least x 5 CA dps at least1. you can insert a lot of + 45 divine damage adornments. put it on helm, symble, range, amulet, bracelet, ( actually it's a amulet/bracer dt access item ) gloves they will increase some of your divine damage for instance vengeance 800+ at least with only 300 intell. and every single of your invocation can crits for 1k you will see 1k poped up like crazy ( solo mode ). during a raid you can see lot 1700 - 2100 damage pop up a lot. this is the thing i wanna tell you. this adornment does NOT effect on your devine CAs, you will see a lot like 170 - 210 damage pop up ( solo mode ) it because they are not magical divine damage. they are melee divine damage ( always crit but the damage is like way way way low just by the view )2. same problem + 25 spell damage adornments has no effect to your CA..3. buff issue. if you go str, you will have to cut some intell stat items for sure.. your power drain will be less. your act damage will do less damage4. proc items... you can find a lot of proc items for hostile spells. like broodwater, ring from dt, fizz( clay more rewards ), bone-clasped girdle, even relic bp... they all increase your spell damage. for CA.. you have to pray for the eof, and good luck to bid with your guild zekers pally guardian and sks...<div></div><hr></blockquote>I see several advantages to turning our spells into CAs.1. 100% crit rate. Critting our dots 100% of the time is pretty savage.2. Decreased cast times. Being able to toss off our dots nearly instantaneously is super great, because it means we can keep them up and still have all of our debuffs up, and be healing to boot.3. Able to cast them during fanatacism. We may lose effective dps by converting everything into CAs, but we can cast them, at .5 second cast speed, with no increased power cost, with 9.6% reduced recast timers (if you've got master fanatacism). This means our group stays buffed more, we stay buffed more, we still dps, and everyone is happy.4. Reduced power cost. Speaks for itself.5. We were already a triple-statistic class anyway. Str for our melee damage (which was very real, even prior to this expansion), Wis for power, and Int for nuke damage. This is not changing.6. You get to PICK AND CHOOSE which ones you turn into CAs. For instance: I am considering not converting scourge into a CA. Why? Because its power cost is already relatively low (hence I don't mind paying extra for casting it during fanatacism), and it's only a 1 second cast time, therefore I gain very little by turning it into a CA.7. CAs give me even more of an excuse to be right up there, in combat, beside my fellow raiders that I'm healing. That's where I want to be, and that's where I belong. Lots of people [Removed for Content] and moan about how I'm in there getting hit by aes (even though I'm always keeping my group up solo healing), and this will silence them...even if just for that reason, I like it.8. You don't lose the spells you already have. These are an ALTERNATIVE, and you aren't forced to use them. In an ae fight, I can still flip hotbars and fall back on my normal spells, without any problem.9. I'm intrigued by this "Maladroit" ability, and I'd like to see how it plays out.10. The "Battle Priest" line is clearly intended to distinguish us beyond our templar brethrin. SOE made mobs harder to hit, and the +45 crushing is intended to create a gap between our melee dps and templar melee dps. I like that. A lot.11. I never bothered with Symbol of Corruption before because it sucked. The new melee version is actually decent, and is giving me a new nuke/dot to play with.12. The ones that are too long of a recast for me (invocation, for instance), I can simply use the standard nuke version of, with its 3 second recast. This also makes my +divine damage augments useful, as Invocation, AE, Vengeance, and Repentence are our divine damage dealers. If none of these are converted to CAs, then I lose nothing from my ability to add +divine damage augments.13 (and this pertains only to me): Despite being decently raid geared, I don't have any items that proc off of spell casts specifically, so I don't lose any of those by switching to CAs.14 (and this is the biggest one): I am not in beta, I have not tested them myself, and I'm not simply going to take your word for it. I'm sure you're entirely competant, and you clearly have a strong opinion. I do not yet share it, and I'm going to investigate all avenues on my own, before I cast judgement upon this. I like its look on paper (see the above 13 reasons), and I'm going to see how it does, before I condemn it.</div>

Gwyniveth

11-09-2006, 11:19 PM

<DIV> <HR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>7. CAs give me even more of an excuse to be right up there, in combat, beside my fellow raiders that I'm healing. That's where I want to be, and that's where I belong. Lots of people [Removed for Content] and moan about how I'm in there getting hit by aes (even though I'm always keeping my group up solo healing), and this will silence them...even if just for that reason, I like it. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>And when an AA spected, diety enhanced , heal adornedTemplar comes along that can keep your group healed better then you can, welp, I hope you are going to be happy with all that dps you can do, cause you won't be much good for anything else except spot heals. And when a wizard comes along for your dps spot , well.. you can always solo, and I hear there are some nice quests in the expansion.</DIV>

Israphil

11-09-2006, 11:23 PM

<div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Gwyniveth wrote:<div> <hr> <blockquote> <div>7. CAs give me even more of an excuse to be right up there, in combat, beside my fellow raiders that I'm healing. That's where I want to be, and that's where I belong. Lots of people [Removed for Content] and moan about how I'm in there getting hit by aes (even though I'm always keeping my group up solo healing), and this will silence them...even if just for that reason, I like it. <hr> </div></blockquote>And when an AA spected, diety enhanced , heal adornedTemplar comes along that can keep your group healed better then you can, welp, I hope you are going to be happy with all that dps you can do, cause you won't be much good for anything else except spot heals. And when a wizard comes along for your dps spot , well.. you can always solo, and I hear there are some nice quests in the expansion.</div><hr></blockquote>It's not about MY dps. It's about my GROUPS dps, and a templar will never come close to touching what we can do for buffing a group. Get your head out of your butt and stop looking at yourself as an evil templar. Try considering yourself as an <u>Inquisitor</u> instead. Templars <u>should</u> be able to heal better than we can, because their place in the raid is in the main tank group. Mine is in a dps group, where I can be healing the tank, debuffing, keeping my group alive, buffing my groups dps, and dpsing myself. I am going to be an AA specced, deity enhanced, heal adorned Inquisitor. In my entire time playing this game, there has been ONE encounter that I've had any trouble keeping my group alive in. That encounter? Cruor Alluvium. For obvious reasons. And screw any templar who thinks he'll ever be able to do my job better than I, because of the above factors that I present, he accomplishes 2: keep group alive, and dpsing. I do a whole lot more than that, and can keep my group alive just as effectively. SOE has given them nothing in this expansion that infringes on OUR capabilities, or OUR spot in a raid. Your scenario simply won't happen.</div><p>Message Edited by rckmer on <span class=date_text>11-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:34 AM</span>

Demoniac

11-10-2006, 12:47 AM

well, first all of i am not saying anything wrong the the whole bettle priest.. i am talking about the new AAs 6 of them. i think bettle priest ability is pretty cool, the final ability imean.yes, most of them your speech are the truth... but you missed a lot of fact...1. what does 45 crushing do to your melee?? simple test... go grab 45 crushing aa, now hit a mob. if you have 100% chance it will tell you a number. remove the bettle priest aa no more 45 crushing. hit the same mob again. get the second number,and check out both number.. i am telling you in test.. they are the same number... what does it do exactly?? it will increase your hit chance to yellow con or orange con mobs. we are talking about different srever, they are different situation. in live server, your hit the mob chance like 90% or higher.. in test server.. even with the 45 crushing your chance to hit the mob is like 75% or less I think it's more less than 75% caz the mob's avoidance is working probbly in test...2. by the view, by parser... very very simple you can tell the number so easy.. it doesn't matter crits or not spell damage always hit the mob 500+ every single hits are greater than 500... just by the number. your CAs are like 170-210 even everything crits.. for spells you can see a lot of damage crits for 1k+. plus the proc items.. it's so easy to beat 900 dps if you don't heal ( solo mode ). for CA, if you hit 500 that's a god bless. caz your auto-attack dps will be much less than live server3. no matter spells or CAs they share the same reuse timer...thay are not new things... once you burn down all your CAs... all your spells will become unavailable during the recast timer. you have time to walk to the mob ( melee range ) and move back.. why not just stay here cast spells and do better dps. you can't just run in cast CAs, run back cast damage spells again, it's not possible...4. actually my symble do better dps..even it's a 35 spell. it's about 60+270 - 70+270 divine damage.like that so it does better dps. if you want I can get the link for you... it's a very simple question.. by view, I can tell you a level 35 spell does better damage, better dps than a level 70 CA even it always crits... the only difference is about the resistability...5 last problem... my spell damage does 5 times bigger dps than CAs... <div></div>

Mardane

11-10-2006, 02:40 AM

Give me a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] break..I'm just giving you MY opinion of what "I" believe an Inquisitor should be. You can believe otherwise. Thats your choice. To ME..when I made my character It brought back great thought of my CHaotic Evil CLeric in AD&D. I thought Fire and Brimstone..great! Plate Mail..Wonderful! That proves to "ME" that I Can be on the front lines when I need to handing out or taking a beating. This is my opinion just like you folks have yours. Perhaps alot of you inquisitors here are big raiders and thats where you need a massive healing upgrade. I myself work alot and the only raid time I get is on the weekends. During the week I find myself soling quite abit or in small groups and some more damage would be nice..for ME. Anyway, thanks for quoting me as I feel pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] special that MY opinion caught your attention. Luckily I dont take games as serious as some of you do.

ericshaitan

11-10-2006, 02:57 AM

<blockquote><hr>Mardane wrote:<div></div>I dont take games as serious as some of you do.<hr></blockquote>Yup, that's exactly the point. When did you make your inquisitor?!?!? Day 1? A day ago? Healers in EQ have a very specific roll, it is not even closly compairable to DnD, which I play all the time. SOE saying, this is no longer your Roll, we want you to do somthing else. This is why everyone is upset. I though that when PoS came out it was bad with all the AAs geared toward DPS... Now with EoF, SOE just doesn't care what the majority of the people want.<div></div>

Mardane

11-10-2006, 03:05 AM

<DIV>The thing is I've been playing these MMORPGS since day one of UO. I used to get all upset everytime a developer made changes with a class I played but when it boils down to it they're gonna do what they are gonna do. That is why I don't take things about the game seriously. Its not that I don't do my research into the game. Does it matter if I I tell you Ive played 2 years or 2 days..I'm just telling you what I feel an Inquisitor is...and the key word there is "I". Everyone one of these games pushes the healer class into a corner and your only role is to watch health bars till your blue in the face. I prefer to do abit more with my time. This is "MY" opinion. Dont be so upset that I have one and post it here. My opinion Im sure wont sway the 20 other vocal inquisitors here on these boards or the Devs..Once again..Its "MY" opinion.</DIV>

A-Dent42

11-10-2006, 03:18 AM

<div></div>Ok well here is my opinion on what an Inquisitor should be... We are an offensive healer.My opinion of what that entails is as follows:Primary role.- Healing<div></div>- Curing Elemental/agressive debuffs Secondary role- Debuffing (ie support of the dps classes)Other- Curing- Buffing- dpsNow in line with that role I really dont care about my dps, buffs or curing trauma I believe we should have adequate debuffs but most of all we are a healer we have to be able to at least compete with all other classes in healing and preferably along with Templars we should be the best healers in the game.For the record I see Templars as our opposite in the secondary role only.Wardens, Furies should be dps/heal hybrids and be strong in nothing but adequate in all fieldsDefilers, Mystics should be our opposite in terms of strength in debuffs and secondary in healing.This is just my opinion and wont be the same as others and most unfortunately it is obviously not in SOE's view of my class.<p>Message Edited by A-Dent42 on <span class=date_text>11-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:19 PM</span>

ericshaitan

11-10-2006, 03:20 AM

<blockquote><hr>Mardane wrote:<div>The thing is I've been playing these MMORPGS since day one of UO. I used to get all upset everytime a developer made changes with a class I played but when it boils down to it they're gonna do what they are gonna do. That is why I don't take things about the game seriously. Its not that I don't do my research into the game. Does it matter if I I tell you Ive played 2 years or 2 days..I'm just telling you what I feel an Inquisitor is...and the key word there is "I". Everyone one of these games pushes the healer class into a corner and your only role is to watch health bars till your blue in the face. I prefer to do abit more with my time. This is "MY" opinion. Dont be so upset that I have one and post it here. My opinion Im sure wont sway the 20 other vocal inquisitors here on these boards or the Devs..Once again..Its "MY" opinion.</div><hr></blockquote>I completly understand, and sorry for attacking you, normal not in my nature, just in a super bad mood. Anyway I understand were you are coming from. And how the new abilites are a benifit to your play style. The issue here is that many of us have been playing inquisitors for 2 years now only to see our class deteriorate into something that it was never susposed to be. <div></div>

Rvaryen

11-10-2006, 03:47 AM

Pretty much what it comes down too is we were basically lied to by Scott Hartsman when he announced the new combat changes. He said this wasnt gonna be another LU13 where people class's were changed but that THE COMBAT SYSTEM was gonna be changed. Now it appers our class has been changed along with the combat system. Also it seems dev are only catering towards the pvp servers which is great for them but pretty crappy for the other 10 pve servers. SoE has alot riding on this expansion they can do what they want, BUT they will have to live with their decsions. They lost alot of accounts after LU13, and they may or may not lose alot of accounts after this expansion. If you dont like your class after this quit or roll a new one, but I doubt the devs even read these boards.

Demoniac

11-10-2006, 03:56 AM

<div></div>I would have to say something to Devs... No. i already had my master spells. I don't need these new adept I aas and even though you give me master I... I already had my master i. what's the point I get another master I do the same dps??<div></div>for myself, I think devs should give 3 options..line 1. heals.. whatever emergence heals, any heals... so people love to be a real cleric, including myself take this lineline 2. DPS... some people want to do more dps.. cool. just give them the option give them a dps boost..line 3. debuffs... some people wanna be a debuffer and a healer for a raid.. then take this line...so if you wanna make a healer and a dpser go line 1 and 2... if you want to make a healer and a debuffer go line 1 and 3... if you wanna be a dpser and a debuffer.. go line 2 and 3... very simple...the thing makes really angry is ... the dps lines, it doesn't increase your dps. this is a game. you wanna people paid for it every month like they paid for cable TV. you have to bring something that they want.. give them different channels... kids go to the child channel. adults go to the [Removed for Content] channel.those are bs. i am talking about it any more... it makes me feel like an idiot.<p>Message Edited by Demoniac on <span class=date_text>11-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:08 PM</span>

Israphil

11-10-2006, 04:33 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Demoniac wrote:<div></div>I would have to say something to Devs... No. i already had my master spells. I don't need these new adept I aas and even though you give me master I... I already had my master i. what's the point I get another master I do the same dps??<div></div>for myself, I think devs should give 3 options..line 1. heals.. whatever emergence heals, any heals... so people love to be a real cleric, including myself take this lineline 2. DPS... some people want to do more dps.. cool. just give them the option give them a dps boost..line 3. debuffs... some people wanna be a debuffer and a healer for a raid.. then take this line...so if you wanna make a healer and a dpser go line 1 and 2... if you want to make a healer and a debuffer go line 1 and 3... if you wanna be a dpser and a debuffer.. go line 2 and 3... very simple...the thing makes really angry is ... the dps lines, it doesn't increase your dps. this is a game. you wanna people paid for it every month like they paid for cable TV. you have to bring something that they want.. give them different channels... kids go to the child channel. adults go to the [Removed for Content] channel.those are bs. i am talking about it any more... it makes me feel like an idiot.<p>Message Edited by Demoniac on <span class="date_text">11-09-2006</span> <span class="time_text">03:08 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I think this perspective is entirely reasonable, and I definately think the CA aa line should see dramatic improvement, if the devs expect anyone to take it at face value. It's especially infuriating since there aren't really enough viable alternatives within the aa system to avoid these new CAs, if we plan to max out our AAs. However, I do think there is some merit to the idea, especially from the way our class has shifted toward being more melee-intensive (100% crit rate, fanatacism, etc). What I would really like is a: across-the-board improvement to the CAs to make them viable, and b: some reliance upon our current SPELL quality to influence the CA quality. There is no reason we should be penalized by mastering out all of our spells, when some scrub who stuck with adept1s and instead spent his money somewhere else stands to only benefit.I just don't think badmouthing the idea is the way to go, especially since none of the healers really got AA lines that cater toward "healing" perse. It seems like all of the AA lines are intended to increase the supporting aspects of the classes (look at templars, they didn't pick up improvements to direct heals, but they did their proc heals, which they already consider useless. Do I consider them useless? Hell no, I think they benefitted much more from AAs so far than we did, but they aren't picking up improvements to serious class features either), as is especially typified by the druids getting root aas and other bs. It's clearly an attempt to cater to pvp audiences as well as pve ones, and it definately needs some work. However, this nonstop griping about how our healing needs improved needs to stop. There is nothing wrong with our healing! It hasn't gone down, and in fact with the decreased power cost of convert and our ability to double up on heal augments (augmenting the spell itself, and also augmenting the convert amount), we've picked up a lot of healing power! The AAs clearly have not been aimed toward dramatically improving ANYONE'S healing power. If we want increased healing power, we should be fighting for god-granted abilities that are actually worth a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], because that's where the goodies are picking up a huge advantage over us.</div>

Mardane

11-10-2006, 05:20 AM

I understand you folks that play your Inquisitor as your main are Hot. Especially you guys that Raid alot. I hope you all get the healing that your looking for. I just wish there was a better way for folks to spec besides AAs so that If they went the healing path they would have access to more powerful heals and they same if you wanted the "battle" priest. Dark Age of Camelot had this with all the classes (Cleric had a Healing line, Augmentation Line, and Smite ..I think that was the actual names)) and it seemed to work very well IMO... Until they Nerfed us Smite Clerics seeking DPS hehe.<p>Message Edited by Mardane on <span class=date_text>11-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:22 PM</span>

A-Dent42

11-10-2006, 05:39 AM

<div></div>Personally a halfway innovative dev team would probably have come up with a multi-line option for each class with each line offering a more appropriate/customised dirrection.In our case rather than each line being directed at dps they perhaps could have created a Healing, Buff/Debuff and DPS line and structured it in such a way as to give only enough points to complete 1 and a bit lines, that way everyone could have got what they wanted for their style of play.But instead we got the dev who budgetted 10 minutes at 4:30pm on the friday afternoon before a long weekend to come up with our lines.<div></div><p>Message Edited by A-Dent42 on <span class=date_text>11-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:41 PM</span>

Braelau

11-10-2006, 05:54 AM

I have been playing an inquisitor since launch. I wanted to play an evil character (to continue with my RP from EQ1) who was a cleric. My only option was an inquisitor. I much perfer to focus on healing, but it seems I really don't have the choice anymore. I understand that people chose Inquisitors purely for the class... but it seems unfair that the only "clerics" that come out of Freeport are slowly moving farther away from healing... <div></div>

Torbas

11-10-2006, 05:57 AM

<div></div>The new AA's will result in higher dps if you are specced for melee dps. The DoT component of all the newly updated CA's are longer than their duration. Combine this with maxed melee crits, the decreased reuse time with the Fana. AA, and yaulp, and melee/CA dps becomes a very valid option for inquisitors, DPS wise. It should be interesting to see what maladroit is, as well. Heaven knows radiance within was a steaming pile of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]e.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Torbas on <span class=date_text>11-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:04 PM</span>

Demoniac

11-10-2006, 06:07 AM

<blockquote><hr>Torbas wrote:The new AA's will result in higher dps if you are specced for melee dps. <div></div><hr></blockquote>dude, you are the only one i've seen not talking sense... it doesn't make you smart. please read the basic concept before you post like this... or get some prove.. at least tell us how much dps parser details. <div></div>

Demoniac

11-10-2006, 06:09 AM

very nice imagination... very nice really..<div></div>

Nummer

11-10-2006, 08:17 AM

<P>hi guys, i lurk a lot on this board and always find your posts both informative and constructive, especially as i have not been playing Inquis very long.</P> <P>I have a lvl 43 Inquis on naggy pvp server, and i have to say this Toon has become my main character, i have just been enjoying what the class had to offer, and the implied role of being my group's primary healer and often, leader.</P> <P>i am concerned with the issues raised in this thread because i have come to enjoy my role and do not wish to have my class group position altered drastically again. i had a paladin and a warlock at LU13, and i quit EQ2 after they broke the game at that time. ive been back about 4 months. now they intend to break my new toon, as is obvious to me at least from reading demoniac's well constructed argument - the aa lines that improve our dps (on test) do not raise the dps beyond what i currently have on nagafen (live server) - they maintain it at its current level. they are also driving my toon in a direction such that at lvl 70 i will not be the character i desired to be, much like they did to my warlock at LU13.</P> <P>as an inquis who isnt currently raiding, my concerns are twofold.</P> <P>i know some of you will work with whats given and create a few different setups that work and work well, but realistically i dont desire to be a plate tank who can heal, i have a paladin already. i want to play main tank support in 6 man groups, being primary healer in groups untill i reach endgame, where i want to raid and see endgame with a defined and important role centered on my healing and debuffing abilities.</P> <P>i do see myself as the polar opposite of a templar, as - if i betray thats what i become. i play PVP so i will never group with a templar to raid, exiling aside - my role in a freeport raid ought to be the comparable opposite of my reflected Qeynos bretheren,- i should not be giving up a group slot to a druid, because sony took my primary function and left it as it was, boosted druid spell damage, gave templar beaut heal procs and gave me mediocre combat skills for soloing and duoing, which dont add damage to my toon at all, but force me to lern2playnoob all over again.</P> <P>im troubled, but dont think i have the experience to comment specifically. i do think however our AA ought to provide at least one line focused more to our primary function as healers and debuffers than almost all forcing me to play crusader style. (with less dps than i currently have)</P> <P>i beleive we will be able to heal as good as we ever did, but with the new combat mechanics will that be adequate healing, or great healing compared to other classes? as a cleric subclass we ought to be tiers above druids with heavy healing ability.</P> <P>ill be watching these boards with interest, fingers crossed somebody in sonyland gives a flying [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Nummersechs on <span class=date_text>11-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:42 PM</span>

JmSte

11-10-2006, 09:34 AM

<DIV>lol [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], last time I checked we can be pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good healers; don't understand what you're all whining about. Being able to DPS when everyone in raid is sitting at 100% HP seems like a bonus to me. I do agree though that an AA line that helps heals would be a good option instead of the emergency line. Some of the recent changes to that line have been nice but does anyone here even use root and fear? lol, should replace that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] with something to help heals.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Either way you look at it, we're still evil clerics and have been different from templars since day one. If you don't like where we're goin, you can always betray or reroll another class. ^_^</DIV>

Solar_Fla

11-10-2006, 09:47 AM

<DIV>I love the Inquisitor class. I want to say that from the bottom of my heart. I am happy every day I choose such a versitile and functional class. However what I keep seeing here over and over is everyone wants to buff their healing and thats all we ever do... occasionly were allowed to buff or cure or debuff. To be honest each day that goes by I start to like the fact these new abilities will enhance me outside of raids and in them. Notice I said "enhance" none of these abilities will be game breaking except maybe the fanaticism thing hehe. The templars get boosts to heals... big deal, do you realize how boring it is to be a templar? Have any of you played one long enough to experiance the sheer drudgery of only being able to heal? NO SIR, thats not for me. If you chose inquisitor for a roleplay aspect you chose for the wrong reasons. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am gonna give you an example: Anyone heard of the Knights Templar? They were in essence what a cleric would be sans the magical ability. The Knights Templar were a highly religious group who were very skilled at fighting. The were Holy Knights. Now I know alot will be like "well thats just a paladin" well screw that paladins are crap, they are a joke and I love killing them one after the other. So forget paladins, an Inquisitor out heals out dps and out tanks a paladin any day, hell I can steal agro from paladins occasionly and thats their only class defining thing. Now with that out of the way, the Knights Templar were connected to the church just like a cleric in this game is. Now the last time I checked we wear plate .... anyone ever wondered why we do? I mean seriously why should a cleric be able to wear plate? I will tell you exactly why... in eqlive all the classes were modeled after D&D (SOE likes to steal ideas and incorporate it into their own). Now in D&D the clerics can wear plate (amazing coincidence). The clerics there had Yaulp and other very powerful abilities. A cleric in D&D is actually one of the most powerful classes ESPECIALLY if your evil. A evil cleric could do things like HARM and Cause Critical Wound, where the good one could only HEAL or Cure Critical Wound. There was a very distinct diffrence between the two and ya know what I think they ripped that off too. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now going on these assumptions and yes I realize they are only that but thats all any of ya got anyway so I am in good company. Now based on these I can infer that yes they want us to be a more damage oriented healer and templar to be the goody goody crap healers they are. My spot in a raid will never be taken by a templar just as a templars spot will never be taken by a inquisitor. The only diffrence is instead of standing max range for every fight your up there in the fray making the fights just that much shorter. If you actually know what resist gear is (suprisingly alot of healers think resist gear is over rated ...morons) then those aa's won't be a big deal unless its something like cruor of course but those are extreme examples. As a matter of fact I can melee all of Deathtoll except for cruor cause I have good resists and know when to cure when to heal and when to dps. Only an intelligent healer knows when to do these things. This class is not EZ mode by any means at all. If you can show me an inquisitor who thinks we aren't a complicated yet ultimatly rewarding class then i will show you someone who drakn drano as a kid. Those people make me sick simple cause all they know how to do is heal and cure (half the time they don't even know how to do that). To truly know your class is to understand ALL of its inner workings and utilize them all to your benefit. if SOE wants to push us to be melee clerics then fine i will happily oblige cause when the dust settles I bet EVERYONE of you will be specced out melee dps. Alot of you will fall into line with the design and still moan and whine. I remember all the flak people got for going melee dps line with KOS AA's and yet now it is a highly recommended setup cause it gives you the most bang for your buck. Alot of Inquisitors fancy themselves as ONLY being a healer. I think thats short sighted and ultimatly self defeating and shooting yourself in the foot so to speak.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also want to clue ya in a bit that the reason we get this battle cleric line isn't because of them being "creative". They saw that alot of inquisitors were doing the melee dps thing cause it works... and it works well. So they threw us a bone in that department and for that I am thankful. Sure I wish I had better healing ability but more and more in raids my role has shifted to being the best offensive buffer in the game. Bards are great buffers too but can they do 52% haste AND 30% dps alone with all our excellent group buffs? I don't think so. When i am in the melee dps group the dps is almost doubled as opposed to me being in another less inquisitor friendly group. Our role seems to be confused by the players and the devs, the devs want us to continue down the path we have had since the begining. We are the offensive cleric templars are the defensive. Its quite simple, now instead of giving us AA's to be more defensive they enhanced our personal offensive ability. In KoS we do alright like this but with the battle cleric line, I might just make the parse consistently ( doubt it though my guild parses way too durn high heh). Nonetheless, if you want to heal great then please betray so don't have to hear your whining anymore, however if you want to heal great and be versitile to be able to dish damage and take it along with healing and curing and never running out of power then by all means stay a inquisitor and join the ranks of the best of the best. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I firmly believe that if there were 24 inquisitors in a raid with these new abilities they could take on any raid content cause everyone of them would be doing 1k dps healing like a fool and being able to take damage like a raid tank. Thats just too juicy an idea to let go for me. If they start to give us taunts then i will start to worry but keep in mind folks, your not just a "healer" your a cleric who leads religious zealots into battle and you dominate your foes through sheer presence. The spanish Inquisiton was one of the dark times in human history cause the religious zealots that inqusiitors were, they inspired fear and respect because they were indeed powerful and I plan to follow in that trend. I might be blamed a fanboi for these comments but I like this direction we are taking. I was initially opposed cause I wanted great healing ability but eh the raid isn't gonna put a templar in my dps group and they ain't gonna put me in the MT group so any raid inquisitor who thinks our job is to just heal the tank and never run fanaticism or anything like that is quite ignorant of the class and should betray to save yourself the frustration. Thanks for listening to this long winded post but some of ya seem to think we are something we arne't.</DIV>

Cinn

11-10-2006, 09:55 AM

<DIV>deleted msg</DIV><p>Message Edited by Cinn on <span class=date_text>11-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:14 PM</span>

Gwyniveth

11-10-2006, 09:57 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JmStein wrote:<BR> <DIV>lol [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], last time I checked we can be pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good healers; don't understand what you're all whining about. Being able to DPS when everyone in raid is sitting at 100% HP seems like a bonus to me. I do agree though that an AA line that helps heals would be a good option instead of the emergency line. Some of the recent changes to that line have been nice but does anyone here even use root and fear? lol, should replace that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] with something to help heals.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Either way you look at it, we're still evil clerics and have been different from templars since day one. If you don't like where we're goin, you can always betray or reroll another class. ^_^</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This is NOT whining.. this is about players that are passionate about their class and do not want to see it turned into a poor imitation of an ill conceived version of a battle priest. We chose to be evil healers.. we are clerics. We are not a dps class, and no matter what AA's they through at you to make you think other wise is fruitless. If the dps line stays... fine with me. There are some that like it, great. But why does that have to leave the majority of the Inquisitor class out in the rain while we watch Templars pass us by. That was the way it was before the combat revision for DoF .. SoE admitted that it was not supposed to be that way and fixed it so that all healing classes healed about the same though situationally, some did better then others. No, with this AA line, we are going back to the pre-combat change and are again going to be far behind. Maybe that doesn't bother you, but it ought to. Becasue bottom line is, if you play the end game at all , HEALING from a heler is a much more desired attribute then any amount of dps you can throw at the mob. And if you think your place is safe in a group becasue you buff dps, well guess what, you aren't. There are plenty of other clases around that can do that at least as well. High healing is going to be the clear winner every time.. at what point do you think that a better healer is not going to be taken instead of you or me ? </P> <P>Believe me, I am not trying to be confrontational. It is not the way I generally do things. But I have played this class since day 1. I suffered through the pre-combat era. I kept trying to find my role, looked for my silver linings, tried to find the good parts of this class. I have pushed this class as hard as I can. But to be honest, I'm getting tired of fighting . I'm getting tired of having to look for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow , only to find that the Templars already got the gold and all I got was the pot. I'm not asking for game imbalancing changes, I am asking for equivilant changes. I am not asking that the dps line be taken from those of you that like it, I am asking that for those of us that want to heal to be given something too . Is that so much to ask ? Is that whining .. no, it isn't. It is a heart felt plea from the Inquisitor community to not leave us in the dust one more time . So take what you want from this post or the many others in all of the threads here and on the beta boards, but don't take it as whining .. take it as disgust, disappointment, frustration, but mostly take it as the passion that the great percentage share about our CLERIC HEALER CLASS.</P>

JmSte

11-10-2006, 10:13 AM

<P>I actually don't even think I'm going to take the DPS line; I like the way I DPS now, so most of that line is pretty useless to me the way I see it now. What I don't understand, however, is why people keep saying that we are [Removed for Content] healers or going to be [Removed for Content] healers. I've never had problems out healing templars; it's usually the shamans that are a pain in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to out heal (which might even change with the mitigation revamp). If you like healing and you made your inquisitor to only heal, then do so. I, on the other hand, prefer to use my class to its fullest potential (healing included) - yea it sucks that there currently aren't any big improvements to our current heals with the AAs or gods, but we are getting plenty of improvements in other areas, and I'm not just talking about DPS.</P>

Gwyniveth

11-10-2006, 10:42 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JmStein wrote:<BR> <P>I actually don't even think I'm going to take the DPS line; I like the way I DPS now, so most of that line is pretty useless to me the way I see it now. What I don't understand, however, is why people keep saying that we are [Removed for Content] healers or going to be [Removed for Content] healers. I've never had problems out healing templars; it's usually the shamans that are a pain in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to out heal (which might even change with the mitigation revamp). If you like healing and you made your inquisitor to only heal, then do so. I, on the other hand, prefer to use my class to its fullest potential (healing included) - yea it sucks that there currently aren't any big improvements to our current heals with the AAs or gods, but we are getting plenty of improvements in other areas, and I'm not just talking about DPS.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>We are not [Removed for Content] healers now, quite the contrary. And you are right, I don't have any trouble keeping up with Templars, or any other class at the moment. I am generally at the top of the healing parse. I also love healeing a dps group. It is challanging and constanly a source of pride to me that I can do it and do it well. That is not the argument. The argument is not about the here and now, it is about post EoF when Templars get enhanced healing capabilities. All you have to do is take the time to look at what they are being offered and compare it to what we have been given. I don;t want to heal better then they do, but I don't want the flip side of that coin either. Leave the dps line if some want it .. thats fine. But don't cut the rest of us out of the expansion by offering us nothing to augment what we love to do .. heal. <BR>

JmSte

11-10-2006, 10:42 AM

<DIV>I must be hella bored cause I actually just read that extremely long essay <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It was a good one though, I definitely see what you're sayin. We all may have started as clerics on day one when this game came out but we chose to become Inquisitors, not Templars or any other priest class. I could play the same game and complain about how I created a PRIEST, now why don't I have wards and heals over time?! The point is that we are different from the other priests classes and bring our own benefits to the raid.</DIV>

Israphil

11-10-2006, 10:51 AM

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>Gwen, what is this pot of gold to which you refer? Is it Tunare, because the whole "deific element" is one that I, (and players in general, as far as I know) still do not understand the full impact of. Hell, I don't even know how many times I'm going to be able to use these blessings and miracles, but I doubt it's terribly often because they are disgustingly savage. If it's not, then I don't know exactly what templars are getting that we aren't. They are basically getting their equivalent spells upgraded (their heretics demise does a heal when the mob dies, their group % chance to proc procs a heal instead, etc), and that's nothing different from what they've always had, so I don't really understand the uproar. We have convert, we double up on the healing enhancements that everyone is getting, so we are in fact benefitting disproportionately from that, so I don't even buy that our healing numbers are going to suffer...only time will tell on that, but I seriously doubt we're going to be in for any hurt whatsoever.About trying to find our class definition...back in the day, when EQ was released, I doubt I have to remind you that our reactive heals had an innate damage component built into them. That's right; for anyone who wasn't around back then, every time our reactives triggered, they did DAMAGE to the mob (and not just a little either; I could solo heroic encounters by simply healing myself...it was ridiculous). How could you possibly have been fooled, with that being so obvious, into thinking that we were merely a dark elf version of templars? I dunno about all of you, but I eat babies...that's pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] offensive. Always has been, and always will be.<div></div><p>Oh, and p.s.~ You "suffered" through our pre-combat era? Despite our differing opinions, I maintained a constant level of respect for you until that statement. Our silver lining? Harrowing Inquest. It was a debuff that was cast on a mob, and every time they were hit (by <i>anyone</i>) it had a chance to proc a power drain on them. It would drain an epic out of power in under a minute; that's how Arch Lich, Zalak, and every other hard encounter I can think of was beaten, because they all relied on power for their kickass abilities. Coercers/Illusionists kept the mobs virtually chain stunned, and aided with their own power draining abilities, while the raid beat on them and due to an inquisitor spell killed the mobs. If you were looking for a silver lining, that was it. And that's beyond the most amazing reactives ever, that allowed us to solo like gods and pull amazing dps numbers on raids. We don't have these anymore, and we're not the most disgustingly overpowered healer anymore either. I know for a fact that it was awesome while it lasted, but that's just not how things work out in a fair world. I'm sorry you missed it.<span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by rckmer on <span class=date_text>11-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:06 PM</span>

JmSte

11-10-2006, 10:57 AM

<P>I was actually gonna mention the damage that we used to have on our reactives to point out how we've always been somewhat of battle priests, but every time I think about it being taken away from us I cry a little inside <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

Israphil

11-10-2006, 10:58 AM

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>JmStein wrote:<div></div> <p>I was actually gonna mention the damage that we used to have on our reactives to point out how we've always been somewhat of battle priests, but every time I think about it being taken away from us I cry a little inside <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote>No joke....holy hell, those were the days.LATE EDIT:Oh my god, I just remembered the other thing...I knew there were at least 3 things that made us the sickest healer class. Cruel Invocation stifling for 10 seconds? Holy sheeit, that was tops. Lets see... Inquest for raids, Reactives w/ damage component for effective raiding and most effective soloing (possibly in the game at that point) coupled with low-power perma stifling that went oh so nicely with the reactives, so none of those pesky specials would hit me for more than I could heal for. Oh, and detain used to last for 30 seconds with a 12 second recast. I remember locking a mob down for 15 minutes while my friend drove home from work so we could both get the quest update from it....man people were [Removed for Content], standing there watching me. High power cost though, or I could've done it indefinately.Yep, those were the days....I sure "suffered."</div><p>Message Edited by rckmer on <span class=date_text>11-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:33 PM</span>

LardLord

11-10-2006, 12:13 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gwyniveth wrote:<BR> <BR>We are not [Removed for Content] healers now, quite the contrary. And you are right, I don't have any trouble keeping up with Templars, or any other class at the moment. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ah, what a refreshing quote!</P> <P>As an Inquisitor who often tops the parses, I'm not worried about these changes because it has always been our foundation (Shorter casts, Inquest and Convert) that has made us powerful. Templars are the ones who rely on "extras" to keep up.<BR></P>

Catseyes

11-10-2006, 02:43 PM

ok , i looovveee ppl saying "if u dont like your class, reroll or quit the game " .That's so constructive and nice . We love our class, we play it since day one , we pushed it to the xtrem , in all situations , and worked on it surely way more than you. You want to be smart, try to think and to be constructive . that said , there is something that not coming to mind of a lot of peeps :- Evil or offensive ones, before all (and read our class ,that's written clearly) we re CLERICS. Our FIRST role is to heal and support our team. The debuffs and other stuffs are just secondary weaponry to help us on that. IF templars get more defensive buffs, alright, they choose the defensive side,it's they way it is. We got debuffs ,we choosed to act on enemies instead of acting on our mates. But, actually, the debuff part is not at the same scale of the buff part . - When u re talking about DPS , you are making a great mistake about us. Whatever they five us as toys, we will stay light years behind the real DPS classes. Even tanks are out dpsing us. We are clerics , and as healing ones we dont have to dps . We paid our healing capacity, the means to protect ourselves in fight ,when we lost parry, riposte and dodge. Talk to me about Battle clerics after that. You re just a punching ball when call the close fight, get stick with that.- Take a parse tool, a DPS parser , and a heal parser . Look at the raw numbers. In group, or in raid,whatever. Oddly ,u will stay at last place in each side. You DPS ,even with all the AA ,will remain laughable , and every other priest will heal more than you. Nothing to be proud with. - Yes you can do a great job healing , it's just matter of spell quality, stuff and skill. But , any other priest will do same or better , and in general, better . Sure we can buff good,but every other priest will buff better than us . The problem is not that we are not doing anything good, it's that any OTHER priest class is doing something better than us. So ,where are we fitting ?- you are happy to solo single mobs ? we are not soloers. Pick a bruiser, pick a ranger, pick a palladin, pick a lot of other classes , they will solo 10 x easier, 10 x faster.Sure they re giving us more pvp and solo tools. but sadly, it's not our role. It's not what the majority of players choose inquisitors.So , plz, dont come with false argues and wrong view , on players wanting their class to have their place in the game . Dont tell to inquisitors since day one that they have to betray, reroll or quit game. You are the ones playing the wrong class . We are clerics , evils or not ,offensives or not.Ymrir, 70 inqui befallen<div></div>

ronboga

11-10-2006, 05:35 PM

I remember those days to rckmer. I wish SOE would give those abilities back in the new aa tree instead of the battle line.

Sphinx1975

11-10-2006, 05:38 PM

Excuse my naive question here but are our actual healing numbers changing? For example, if I throw on Suffering Penance on a tank do those numbers the reactive trigger for change any due to these new AAs or game changes? If those numbers are changing downward then I'm not too crazy about that. As it is right now I am able to heal (along with debuff) quite well in groups and raids. I understood that some of the stats were changing across the board but I guess I'm just not as dedicated in trying to figure out what all of it means. Or, is the biggest issue the fact that Inquisitors will be able to heal less than their healing counterparts. I'm looking at the new AA line and seeing the ability to have a 10-30% boost in our debuffs seems like a pretty good thing to me since I, like I'm sure most others do, stack those debuffs while tossing out heals as well. Better debuffs mean less need to heal as often which means I can either hop into a fight in easier zones or better monitor the group and save power during tough group zones or raids.

Mardane

11-10-2006, 06:25 PM

Very Nice Post Solar_Flare

Gwyniveth

11-10-2006, 07:44 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Oh, and p.s.~ You "suffered" through our pre-combat era? Despite our differing opinions, I maintained a constant level of respect for you until that statement. Our silver lining? Harrowing Inquest. It was a debuff that was cast on a mob, and every time they were hit (by <I>anyone</I>) it had a chance to proc a power drain on them. It would drain an epic out of power in under a minute; that's how Arch Lich, Zalak, and every other hard encounter I can think of was beaten, because they all relied on power for their kickass abilities. Coercers/Illusionists kept the mobs virtually chain stunned, and aided with their own power draining abilities, while the raid beat on them and due to an inquisitor spell killed the mobs. If you were looking for a silver lining, that was it. And that's beyond the most amazing reactives ever, that allowed us to solo like gods and pull amazing dps numbers on raids. We don't have these anymore, and we're not the most disgustingly overpowered healer anymore either. I know for a fact that it was awesome while it lasted, but that's just not how things work out in a fair world. I'm sorry you missed it.<SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> <P>Message Edited by rckmer on <SPAN class=date_text>11-09-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>10:06 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yep, what you say is true. We could drain a mob, we could stifle and we could damage it with reactives. Where in that equation is the healing percentage. Thoes are not jobs for a healer and so were taken away and were replaced with more even healing. My silver lining had to be those things. I have raided for 18 of the 24 months of this game, so please don't presume to tell me the benifits of pre and post combat changes. SoE said the things you discuss as non-helaer also. Why do you think you can't do them anymore ? While we did all of those non healer thigns, Templars cast their bags of goodies and went to make a sandwhich , came back long enough to rinse and repeate and went back for a pepsi til the fight was done. That wasn't right either . Why do you think so many Templars quit or rerolled when the combat changes went live ? Becasue they were not the healing Gods that they once were. So don't tell me about our strengths and our weakensses pre-combat change. You may have enjoyed those things, but not me. I made a healer, and being used as a debuff bot did not fall into that catagory. You may not remember the days when it was hard for an Inquisitor to get into a raid force, but I sure as h*ll do. 1 was enough , and if there wasn't 1, well, it didn't much matter becasue other classes did what we did.</P> <P>You constantly discuss apples and oranges. You talk about dps , jumping into the frey to do damamge and healing. Good for you. we have different play styles. We all do. And NONE of them is wrong, so suck it up and realize that those of us that chose to play an Evil Cleric to heal are not the minority and are no less worthy then you up there swining your mace of mightyness. I never asked , nor would I necessarily want the dps portion of this AA line to be dismantled. What I have asked for and will continue to ask for is more balance between what we were offered and what Templars are offered. If you don't know about the diety system, then I suggest you learn and stop spouting off about things you do not know. Stop being so insulting and engage in discussion. You honesty think that an enhanced Detain and Forboding Conversion is a benefit to our class ? IF you solo or IF you are on PvP it might, dunno truthfully, don't do much of one and none of the other. But it in no way enhances the majority of the Inquisitor body. Instead of comming to flame, you might try helping the rest of make sure that there is something for ALL of the Inquisitor types out there before this class becomes something that none of us recognize and only a few remain to play.<BR></P>

Mardane

11-10-2006, 08:47 PM

<P>The sad thing is these games will never make anyone truly happy with their class. I've heard the same spill in every game that has split professions amongst 2 or more sides. DAOC for instance..the Clerics of Albion Cried because the Healers of Midgard were better at Crowd Control. Mids Cried because Hibernia's Druid healed better. Until these games go back to Cookie Cutter classes where the sides just have a "cleric" or a "Fighter" and no actual Creativity into them to differentiate you'll always have unhappy folks. The Grass is always greener on the other side..so they say.</P> <P>Edit: Im curious as to why alot of you folks rolled an Inquisitor. When I read the old Strat guide and began my Inquisitor, to me it was pretty straight forward. It looked to me that I was giving up "some" of my healing capability for Debuffs and Damage. I'm not trying to rile you people up im just curious. Was it only the "evil" factor that called to you? What did you expect an "evil" priest to do besides heal when need be?</P><p>Message Edited by Mardane on <span class=date_text>11-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:54 AM</span>

Israphil

11-10-2006, 09:16 PM

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Gwyniveth wrote:<div></div><p>You constantly discuss apples and oranges. You talk about dps , jumping into the frey to do damamge and healing. Good for you. we have different play styles. We all do. And NONE of them is wrong, <font color="#ff0066">so suck it up and realize that those of us that chose to play an Evil Cleric to heal are not the minority and are no less worthy then you up there swining your mace of mightyness.</font> I never asked , nor would I necessarily want the dps portion of this AA line to be dismantled. What I have asked for and will continue to ask for is more balance between what we were offered and what Templars are offered.<font color="#ff0000"> If you don't know about the diety system, then I suggest you learn and stop spouting off about things you do not know. Stop being so insulting and engage in discussion. You honesty think that an enhanced Detain and Forboding Conversion is a benefit to our class ? IF you solo or IF you are on PvP it might, dunno truthfully, don't do much of one and none of the other. But it in no way enhances the majority of the Inquisitor body. Instead of comming to flame, you might try helping the rest of make sure that there is something for ALL of the Inquisitor types out there before this class becomes something that none of us recognize and only a few remain to play.</font></p><hr></blockquote>Okay, I'm going to attempt to run through the issues that you presented, in the least insulting and most informative way possible.1. I know everything that anyone else knows about the deity (d e i t y) system. What I don't know, and what no one knows, is exactly how often these abilities will come into play, how much impact they will have on an average (or an extraordinary, for that matter) raid, and how much we will suffer from lacking some of Tunare's miracles. The only experience we have with the deity system is via Beta, and I don't think anyone needs to remind anyone that Beta is where none of the logistics come into play. You start out with full legendary for your class, max level, max aa, unlimited respecs, etc etc. What you don't start out with is a knowledge of just how accessable some of these features will actually be.2. No, I don't think enhancing Detain and Forboding Conversion is of sufficient benefit to our class. I never said it was, and I never said it wasn't, although I do think it is a benefit to soloers and people who group with intelligent people who can make the features work, as well as pvpers. However, I don't feel it is of sufficient use to be present, especially in the particular line that it is (which otherwise seems intentionally aimed toward raiders, albeit poorly).3. I can't speak one way or another about limiting our class in such a way as to reduce us to healer bots. You spoke of Pre combat revamp, and how we were "debuff" bots, and yet you continue to maintain a mantra that we are healers healers healers healers healers (ad nauseum). We aren't simply healers, we aren't simply debuff bots, we aren't simply swinging our "hammers of mightiness" (you patronizing sack of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]); we are a <i>complete package</i>. The more some members of the inquisitor community attempt to railroad us into fulfilling a single specific role, the worse off I believe we as a community are.4. (I can't say this one enough times, because apparently no one seems to get it) No healer classes picked up anything that enhances their primary healing abilities (could there be any possible meaning behind this? Maybe, perish the thought, that SOE decided that we are already, via adornments, picking up enough increased healing ability to be fine???). Druids got jacked (with the possible exception of furies getting regen added to urchin, but it's a tiny regen), mystics are worse off than we are with their melee CAs, and templars didn't pick up anything that enhanced their primary healing (although they did pick up increases to their proc spells, "demise" spells, if you will, and incidentally, theirs pertain to healing, just as ours pertain to damage). What does all of this indicate to me? That AAs are intended to reinforce our secondary class purposes, because our healing is sufficient. Druids got their secondary class abilities reinforced (which sadly included SoW, Pact of the Cheetah, and other nonsense...I'm so sorry that you guys got jacked there), their emergencies reinforced (wow, see a resemblance?), and their nukes reinforced (resemblence again, anyone?). Shamans got their emergencies reinforced (seeing a trend...), their nukes reinforced (by turning em into CAs in some respects...sucks to be them), and their secondary class abilities reinforced. Inquisitors picked up increased nukes (CAs again, wow), debuffs reinforced, and secondary class abilities reinforced. Templars got the exact same thing as everyone else...the difference? Their secondary class abilities are aimed at more healing, unlike everyone else's. Why? Because they are supposed to be the "healer of healers." They are <u>supposed</u> to be the ones who heal for days, and have nifty little heal tricks, just like we have nifty little debuff and damage tricks. That is their class definition, just like the definition of druids as (apparently) the healers who can root and increase movement speed, and the definition of inquisitors as the healers who debuff, dps, and melee buff.Also, a caveat: These changes do appear to be serving a double function to SOE; attempting to improve pvp, and attempting to improve raiding. It bothers me a bit that the what, 3? pvp servers are so important that this has to be done, and I really wish that the classes (read: druids) are not getting overhauls that are aimed in a large part at improving the pvp game. With that said, however, I feel like that is an across-the-board thing, and we are suffering from that no more than anyone else is, so both sides of the equation cancel out.</div><p>Message Edited by rckmer on <span class=date_text>11-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:47 AM</span>

menelaus109

11-10-2006, 09:30 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>Mardane wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>The sad thing is these games will never make anyone truly happy with their class. I've heard the same spill in every game that has split professions amongst 2 or more sides. DAOC for instance..the Clerics of Albion Cried because the Healers of Midgard were better at Crowd Control. Mids Cried because Hibernia's Druid healed better. Until these games go back to Cookie Cutter classes where the sides just have a "cleric" or a "Fighter" and no actual Creativity into them to differentiate you'll always have unhappy folks. The Grass is always greener on the other side..so they say.</p> <p>Edit: Im curious as to why alot of you folks rolled an Inquisitor. When I read the old Strat guide and began my Inquisitor, to me it was pretty straight forward. It looked to me that I was giving up "some" of my healing capability for Debuffs and Damage. I'm not trying to rile you people up im just curious. Was it only the "evil" factor that called to you? What did you expect an "evil" priest to do besides heal when need be?</p><p>Message Edited by Mardane on <span class="date_text">11-10-2006</span> <span class="time_text">07:54 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I rolled an Inq to be a healer first and foremostDo defilers give up any healing ability for the awesome debuffs they have? they are 'evil' as well and yet are one of the best healers and debuffers combinedCompare us to Templars for example, iirc templars have 9 ways of healing somebody and several defensive buffs (not counting emergency reactives) compared to our 5 and offensive buffs, the AA's that templars get allow them to boost this healing, whereas ours neither boost our healing nor our offensive buffs. Most people would be happy if we got a boost to one of the otherBoosting personal DPS is pretty useless, what does it matter to a raid that does 18-20K DPS if the Inq can now do 600DPS instead of 500DPS, indeed why even bother taking an Inq at all, our debuffs are nice but not game breaking, and our healing is distinctly subpar, the same arguement also applies to groups, what does it matter if the inq is now doing slightly more DPS than before, the 'supposed' DPS increase we get is less than the difference between proper DPS class paying attention and button bashingIm sure the Inqs who solo and play PvP are overjoyed at the new AA's. They get boosts to the root, fear and mez, Heresy, increased mit and offensive skillsFor those of us that raid these new AA's offer nothing, the benefit of the enhanced debuffs is debatable and hard to test, the increased duration (which most people thought was okay) was taken away, Enhance:Verdict doesnt actually do anything atm, no one really knows what maldroit does (and from testing it on beta nothing seems to the answer) and the increased range AA doesnt workIf you look at some other classes AAs the devs have put thought into abilites that are useful and fit with the class, look at the lifeburn on necos, manaburn on wiz, the emergency ward for defilersWhereas we get some very unoriginal AAs and enhancements to abilities that arent used, the 09/11 patch was 2 steps forward and 2 steps back in terms of what it offered</div>

Gwyniveth

11-10-2006, 10:17 PM

<DIV> <HR> and all of this is based on what you've heard, from, what was that? oh, BETA. Stuff is going to be changed; we should be talking about what we can do to improve our class so it can be forewarded to the devs, and not merely despair about how our class isn't getting what it wants (yet) in the next expansion. I'm convinced that our boards are a thousand times more mature than the templar boards, and I believe we keep them that way by remaining civil and looking ahead, not merely griping. Let's keep it up; the more solutions we come up with, the better the chance they will be implemented and we will be back on track.<BR> <HR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>3. I can't speak one way or another about limiting our class in such a way as to reduce us to healer bots. You spoke of Pre combat revamp, and how we were "debuff" bots, and yet you continue to maintain a mantra that we are healers healers healers healers healers (ad nauseum). We aren't simply healers, we aren't simply debuff bots, we aren't simply swinging our "hammers of mightiness" (you patronizing sack of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]); we are a <I>complete package</I>. The more some members of the inquisitor community attempt to railroad us into fulfilling a single specific role, the worse off I believe we as a community are.<BR> <HR> <BR>Way to be mature and keep our boards focused. Do you ever actually read what you write ? I may be saying helaeing healing healing ad nauseum, but not more then you spouting dps dps dsp.. so before you speak, you ought to read your own words. I don't want to be a healer bot, never ever once said that. Did I once complain about the improvemets to our debuffs? Not once ! It is a large part of what I do, but as you don't want to be turned into a healer bot, I don't want to be turned into a sudo healer/dps bot with no focus. And as for the hammer of mightiness remark.. it was ment as as a generic weapon reference not a direct slam at you. But instead, you chose to take it as an attack and so attacked back. Again I say, great way to enforce maturity of our boards.. cudos. I am ENTITLED to my opinion just as you are. If you don't like it, then don't read it , and please, save us all the nasty snide condescening replies to it. I will continue to have my say for as long as I want , and not you nor your poor attempt at wit or degredation will stop me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, on to constructive things : </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do agree that a lot of this has to do with pvp and perhaps to a lesser extent soloing or duo groups. I don't have a pvp character, just not something I am very good at or interested in. I'm not sure why the classes were not desigend seperatly, one set of rules/spells/ abilities for pvp, another set fore pve. It may be that it is like that now, but honestly I don't know. It just seems to me that a lot of this is bleeding over from pvp onto the pve servers. I'm not sure I agreee on the improving raiding thing though. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Also, a caveat: These changes do appear to be serving a double function to SOE; attempting to improve pvp, and attempting to improve raiding. It bothers me a bit that the what, 3? pvp servers are so important that this has to be done, and I really wish that the classes (read: druids) are not getting overhauls that are aimed in a large part at improving the pvp game. With that said, however, I feel like that is an across-the-board thing, and we are suffering from that no more than anyone else is, so both sides of the equation cancel out. <HR> <BR>Look, at the end of the day we will either see improvements or we won't. We will play our characters or we won't We will move on or we will stay. But if we don't voice opinions, we are all subjected to SoE's whims and have no one to blame but ourselves for not taking the time or the interest to make our voices heard. Attacking each others opinions and name calling is notthe way to do it . THAT I am happy to leave to the Templars <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>

Mardane

11-10-2006, 10:39 PM

Now I believe I understand where some of you "raiding" inquisitors come from. I myself usually find myself in groups and teaming up with Co-workers. I Don't have much time to raid due to work and thats why I don't feel the effects of the new AAs as much, mainly because I'm not in competition with other Healers for Raids Day in and Day out. In a grouping scenario my heals are more than enough IMO and to me its nice to be able to get into the Fray and actually enjoy the game fighting as well as keeping my Friends and Guildies alive.

LardLord

11-10-2006, 11:29 PM

<P>To those of you who think we gave up some healing ability for DPS/Debuffs/Buffs/Whatever:</P> <P>Since LU13, the devs have been too smart to let any class sacrifice any healing capability for anything. Any and all imbalances in the healing capabilities of priests are entirely by accident and mostly limited to raiding.</P> <P>What did we give up for our DPS/Debuffs/Buffs/Whatever? To Templars, we gave up exceptional defensive buffs (among other things). To Shaman, we gave up exceptional debuffs (among other things). To Druids, we gave up DPS (in theory, at least) and group invis/evac (among other things).</P> <P>Healing was/is balanced completely independently of DPS/Debuffs/Buffs/Whatever.</P> <P>Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Gwyn believes these AAs signal a shift away from this philosophy. If they do, it will be extremely disappointing to those of us who play Inquisitors as primary healers. However, I do not believe these AAs signal any philosophical shift. Templars got a minor boost to their healing (Increased effectiveness of proc heals, reactives added to cures). We got a minor boost to our healing (recast reduced on emergency reactives and Anti-death, cast reduced on rez's). In fact, I believe the reason we don't see many healing improvements in any of the priest AAs is so they can maintain the balance in healing capabilities between the classes.</P><p>Message Edited by LardLord on <span class=date_text>11-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:34 AM</span>

Gwyniveth

11-10-2006, 11:57 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LardLord wrote:<BR> <P>To those of you who think we gave up some healing ability for DPS/Debuffs/Buffs/Whatever:</P> <P>Since LU13, the devs have been too smart to let any class sacrifice any healing capability for anything. Any and all imbalances in the healing capabilities of priests are entirely by accident and mostly limited to raiding.</P> <P>What did we give up for our DPS/Debuffs/Buffs/Whatever? To Templars, we gave up exceptional defensive buffs (among other things). To Shaman, we gave up exceptional debuffs (among other things). To Druids, we gave up DPS (in theory, at least) and group invis/evac (among other things).</P> <P>Healing was/is balanced completely independently of DPS/Debuffs/Buffs/Whatever.</P> <P>Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Gwyn believes these AAs signal a shift away from this philosophy. If they do, it will be extremely disappointing to those of us who play Inquisitors as primary healers. However, I do not believe these AAs signal any philosophical shift. Templars got a minor boost to their healing (Increased effectiveness of proc heals, reactives added to cures). We got a minor boost to our healing (recast reduced on emergency reactives and Anti-death, cast reduced on rez's). In fact, I believe the reason we don't see many healing improvements in any of the priest AAs is so they can maintain the balance in healing capabilities between the classes.</P> <P>Message Edited by LardLord on <SPAN class=date_text>11-10-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:34 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>They do in a way though LardLord. The shift seems to be taking us much more dps heavy with less emphesis on healing ability. I think just the fact that the term Battle Cleric has entered the AA line ought to be a signal that that is the direction or new vision of our class, and I would rather that not be the case and will not go down that road with out a fight. Its just a matter of play preference I suppose. For 2 years, my major role has been as a healer with some nifty debuffs and procs thrown in and I like it that way. I don't want to be a dps class that can heal. Sorry, thats just me.<BR><p>Message Edited by Gwyniveth on <span class=date_text>11-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:58 AM</span>

LardLord

11-11-2006, 12:08 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gwyniveth wrote:<BR> <BR> I think just the fact that the term Battle Cleric has entered the AA line ought to be a signal that that is the direction or new vision of our class, and I would rather that not be the case and will not go down that road with out a fight. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Don't forget Templars have an entire AA line devoted to DPS, too.

ronboga

11-11-2006, 12:22 AM

<DIV>Yes but the holy smite line does not turn those spells into CA.</DIV>

Rvaryen

11-11-2006, 03:01 AM

<DIV>IMO they need to give us options to customize our character. Not oh heres 3 different ways to do more dps...me personally I prefer the the dps buffer/healeing/debuffer role and I would like my new ap abilities to be able to enhance those capabilities......but Im not even given those options. Its like the devs had the blinders on when they made these new trees.... WAKE UP DEVS WERE NOT ALL DPS ORIENTED. anyways imo they dont read this stuff and dont really care anyways so were all pretty much wasting our time.</DIV>

Spider

11-11-2006, 04:05 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ericshaitan wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mardane wrote:<BR> <DIV>The thing is I've been playing these MMORPGS since day one of UO. I used to get all upset everytime a developer made changes with a class I played but when it boils down to it they're gonna do what they are gonna do. That is why I don't take things about the game seriously. Its not that I don't do my research into the game. Does it matter if I I tell you Ive played 2 years or 2 days..I'm just telling you what I feel an Inquisitor is...and the key word there is "I". Everyone one of these games pushes the healer class into a corner and your only role is to watch health bars till your blue in the face. I prefer to do abit more with my time. This is "MY" opinion. Dont be so upset that I have one and post it here. My opinion Im sure wont sway the 20 other vocal inquisitors here on these boards or the Devs..Once again..Its "MY" opinion.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I completly understand, and sorry for attacking you, normal not in my nature, just in a super bad mood. Anyway I understand were you are coming from. And how the new abilites are a benifit to your play style. The issue here is that many of us have been playing inquisitors for 2 years now only to see our class deteriorate into something that it was never susposed to be. <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>id have to disagree with u there thak weve lost NOTHING we can still do everything weve been doing all along but now we can (<EM>if we choose to</EM> ) do MORE than that </P> <P>nothing lost everything gained so relax and see where the ride takes u </P>

JmSte

11-11-2006, 05:08 AM

<DIV>At this point, there's really no point in arguing about it. Everything we've been arguing about this far is based on a bunch of assumptions. We don't know how all of our new enchancements will play out or any other classes for that matter. How useful AAs like Maladroit, Punishment, Reach of Faith, and whatever ends up happening to Verdict is still unknown. Yea, some of us have been playing in beta for a little while but definitely not long enought know what's going to happen to our class or what direction we're heading. All of the evil healers have good DPS capabilities, its just a part of being evil. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Honestly tho, some of our new AAs appear to be completely worthless for the majority of us; like the new enchancements for root and fear - complete [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] (at least to me) - yet I don't see us heading in the direction of becoming sub-par crowd controllers. There's plenty of other options for me to choose from.</DIV>

Ssinu

11-13-2006, 03:40 AM

<div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Mardane wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>The sad thing is these games will never make anyone truly happy with their class. I've heard the same spill in every game that has split professions amongst 2 or more sides. DAOC for instance..the Clerics of Albion Cried because the Healers of Midgard were better at Crowd Control. Mids Cried because Hibernia's Druid healed better. Until these games go back to Cookie Cutter classes where the sides just have a "cleric" or a "Fighter" and no actual Creativity into them to differentiate you'll always have unhappy folks. The Grass is always greener on the other side..so they say.</p> <p>Edit: Im curious as to why alot of you folks rolled an Inquisitor. When I read the old Strat guide and began my Inquisitor, to me it was pretty straight forward. It looked to me that I was giving up "some" of my healing capability for Debuffs and Damage. I'm not trying to rile you people up im just curious. Was it only the "evil" factor that called to you? What did you expect an "evil" priest to do besides heal when need be?</p><p>Message Edited by Mardane on <span class="date_text">11-10-2006</span> <span class="time_text">07:54 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>This is only partially true. I have played at least 9 class based MMOs at this point - and some games do *much* better jobs of defining roles and dealing with balance issues than others. You are right that people will fuss over anything like the color of their boots, but sometimes the game you are playing will have truly *rotten* balance. There are certain MMOs out there that are universally failures on many levels, as well as stars. Unfortunately we won't know where EQ2 falls until we can look back in hindsight. They could easily do a lot of good balancing changes (soon) that make most folks happy, or they could do a bunch and leave a lot of players looking for a new game to play. Things are subjective,but time will tell if the majority of folks are unhappy or happy with decisions.As far as your second question, I played in beta, and started on release day - I figured I wanted to be a cleric again like EQ1 and at the time the factions were fairly separate (rumors we couldn't even be guilded with full benefit together). I figured they would have to keep the 3 classes on each side fairly balanced, but they chose to go the route of letting us all group and guild together freely and now we have the situation of 6 healing classes all with different issues and problems. I realize that is me, but imagine if the ruleset were more PvP oriented. These changes would likely be more umbalancing than they are seen now. I also am of the mindset a game like EQ2 should balance to allow paths - even if someone wanted to be a dps /crusader like Inquis, it should also be possible for someone to play the Evil Archon as well with Achievements. I do not feel anyone's point of view is invalid, but they must realise that even if you like DPS, there are many folks who put many months in who do not. Much similar to how WoW does class balacing where it is possible to be a shadow vs holy priest or a restoration vs feral druid - it is possible to allow for very different ideas of a class.Regardless to sum up - time will tell if things stay as they are now but in my time on beta cleric inbalance isn't the only thing that will likely get patched in future. I look forward to seeing what gets changed in the next few months. I just think we need to stay dilligent on facts/information so that our causes are not overlooked.P.S. What's realy funny about all this battle cleric vs healer cleric stuff is that there are other classes right now in EoF being able to hit 2nd slot on dps parser (for the WHOLE raid) and keep up like 3rd on the heal parser. We aren't even getting the *good* DPS stuff. That's what I find funny. (Yes I know that those folks will likely get nerfed).</div><p>Message Edited by Ssinurn on <span class="date_text">11-12-2006</span> <span class="time_text">04:53 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Ssinurn on <span class=date_text>11-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:20 PM</span>

ericshaitan

11-13-2006, 07:48 PM

<blockquote><hr>lspiderl wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> ericshaitan wrote: <blockquote> <hr>I completly understand, and sorry for attacking you, normal not in my nature, just in a super bad mood. Anyway I understand were you are coming from. And how the new abilites are a benifit to your play style. The issue here is that many of us have been playing inquisitors for 2 years now only to see our class deteriorate into something that it was never susposed to be. </blockquote><div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>id have to disagree with u there thak weve lost NOTHING we can still do everything weve been doing all along but now we can (<em>if we choose to</em> ) do MORE than that </p> <p>nothing lost everything gained so relax and see where the ride takes u </p><hr></blockquote> Your missing the point. When EoF comes out its going to be a new game. Much like in EQ1 when an expansion came out it was much harder then the last expansion and was not level dependant. In order to raid EoF you would need your guild to have lots of PoS gear. Up until now all expansion have come with a level upgrade. Meaning any 24 noobs could get together and raid the new zones. Now with EoF it will be gear/new abilities dependant. Now what this means to us. Many of our other healer counterparts are getting abilites that greatly help them in raid. They up their usefullness. Inquisitors do not really get this, we are still at the same level except now we can do 10% more dps? woo woo 100 more DPS if your ontop of your game? With the encounters getting harder we need abilites that will compensate for that... Healing/Buffs. End o' Story.<div></div>

Tarta

11-13-2006, 08:02 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ssinurn wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR><BR>P.S. What's realy funny about all this battle cleric vs healer cleric stuff is that there are other classes right now in EoF being able to hit 2nd slot on dps parser (for the WHOLE raid) and keep up like 3rd on the heal parser. We aren't even getting the *good* DPS stuff. That's what I find funny. (Yes I know that those folks will likely get nerfed).<BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Um... I can only imagine which class you're talking about here... </P> <P>I'm not sure why you're so sure they'll get nerfed, tho, since it seems like those DPS improvements for them are AAs that appear specifically designed to make them better at what they were already quite capable at. Those that want it will choose their (omg! stunning!) DPS path in lieu of other things they could have chosen.</P>

A-Dent42

11-13-2006, 08:22 PM

I realise that this is slightly off topic but wouldnt a battle priest be more in line with a monk?I am just trying to figure out whether we are being pushed into a role that already exists.<div></div>

Dakora

11-13-2006, 08:50 PM

<DIV>The role of the battle priest is great for groups but I think we really need more utility for raid situations. Some kind of heal increase or health balence like Divine Arbitration<FONT color=#000000 size=3> </FONT>that clerics have in Everquest 1. Some other utility other then a improvement of casting of reserrections spells!! [Removed for Content]!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

ericshaitan

11-13-2006, 08:57 PM

<blockquote><hr>Dakora wrote:<div></div> <div> Some other utility other then a improvement of casting of reserrections spells!! [Removed for Content]!</div> <div> </div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>The Devs have been looking at my 1337 healing strats.... Its easier to Rez someone then to heal them!<div></div>

Dakora

11-13-2006, 11:09 PM

<DIV>Yeah, why keep smashing heal when I can just click group rez!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone other then the tank and myself are always expendable <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

Larcain

11-14-2006, 02:52 AM

<DIV>I gotta tell ya, I don't understand some of this argument. If a group or a raid is dependent on the Inquisitor's dps, they are seriously hosed. I solo'd alot pre-50, but don't do much of it now as I just don't want to spend 40 minutes beating down greens..err...with the "new" dps model...30 minutes. The raids I've been in, if they saw me in hacking away with my staff/mace/hammer...dustbuster...they'd boot me. "Hey HEALER...concentrate on bandaids and bactine, leave the dps to the DPS classes". </DIV> <DIV>Just my 2 cents..you can give me change at any time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Demoniac

11-14-2006, 04:49 AM

man, I don't really wanna put you down. but if devs think that we need some heals, we should get some heals aa half month ago. beta inquisitors /shout to devs since beta day 1, did anything changes? i don't think so <div></div>

DotuMing

11-14-2006, 06:15 AM

<DIV>Larcain I couldn't agree with you more. EoF for Inquisitors is a waste unless you solo or do Pickup groups. I spend 95% of my time raiding becuase its what I enjoy doing and because I dont enjoy beating on a mob for hours on end...In our raids im the Healer in the DPS group. Ok let me say that again...im the Healer in the DPS group. That means my SOLE responsibility is to keep people alive. My secondary job revolves around the DPS group in 1 of 3 scenarios. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.) We have a coercer in the group and I max out the dps class DPS/HP buffs as well as provide Haste.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2.) We have an Illus in the group and I max out the dps Class Haste as well as provide DPS/Hp buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3.) We have no Coerc/Illus and Im the sole DPS/Haste buffer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In all of those scenarios, the DPS/Haste buffs we provide will do far more damage than we alone could ever do with spells. Dont believe me? Do some parses on an epic X4 trash mob with your dps group with haste/DPS going and then try with none on. As Larcain said, If they are relying on our dps to kill a mob we are in the wrong Raid...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With EoF what will change that will make an Inquis a wanted/needed part of a raid? Being able to cast thru fanatcism? For twice the power and substantially lower heals? LOL</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh wait a sec, I know!!! It must be the new and improved Verdict...err wait I meant New...So now I can cast it at 2% percent and when it actually goes off the mob has been dead a few minutes and people are on a Bio break but Dont forget that warm fuzzy extra special improvement that the MT will have that added 300ish Hate from me casting it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So from my point of view absolutely nothing has changed with the introduction of EoF. I enjoy playing my Inquis and that wont change, but im boggled at the line of thinking the Devs have decided upon for our class. The AA abilities compounded with the God structure for evil healers is asinine. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Proposed changes:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.) Fanaticism: The double penalty is too severe. Make it cost twice the power and for gods sake our heals arent that big to begin with so dont lower them anymore!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2.) Verdict: Have the base % at 2 and heck, even make it 2 points for every % up to a maximum of 5%. Its not an overpowering ability considering if you get a mob to 5% anyways chances are pretty good its going to die. All you are doing is quickening the pace. This allows an inquis to actually say..Hey! Im worth something on a raid!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3.) Pious: For an enhancement of this spell, Allow for enhanced mitigation as well as stamina. With the introduction of the new combat system it will be even more vital for increasing mitigation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4.) Include at least 1 heal enhancement. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Acknar Demios</DIV> <DIV>Everfrost</DIV> <DIV>70 Inq </DIV> <DIV>70 Coercer</DIV> <DIV>68 Wiz</DIV> <DIV>64 Zerker</DIV>

Ssinu

11-14-2006, 06:26 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>primaryKey wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Ssinurn wrote: <div></div> <div></div> <div>P.S. What's realy funny about all this battle cleric vs healer cleric stuff is that there are other classes right now in EoF being able to hit 2nd slot on dps parser (for the WHOLE raid) and keep up like 3rd on the heal parser. We aren't even getting the *good* DPS stuff. That's what I find funny. (Yes I know that those folks will likely get nerfed).</div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Um... I can only imagine which class you're talking about here... </p> <p>I'm not sure why you're so sure they'll get nerfed, tho, since it seems like those DPS improvements for them are AAs that appear specifically designed to make them better at what they were already quite capable at. Those that want it will choose their (omg! stunning!) DPS path in lieu of other things they could have chosen.</p><hr></blockquote>They are gonna get nerfed keeping up really good heals and spitting out more dps than summoners and wiz/warlock. The whining will be fairly epic and I'm going to /giggle and /cackle the whole time.</div>

Rvaryen

11-16-2006, 05:07 PM

<P><Deap breath></P> <P>Ok I'm gonna get constructive instead of being a pessimist.</P> <P>I would like to see AP changes made....here are some of my suggestions.</P> <P>Detriments line is pretty good ....Maladroit is extremely fuzzy in its meaning and context though.</P> <P>I would like to see some type of AP ability that increases our dps modifier, and our haste modifier on fanaticism. Im not sure if devs are aware of this but RAIDING inquisitors are dps buffers and are in melee dps grps 99% of the time.</P> <P>Now i know this is going out on a limb and i can live w/o it but im just gonna say it anyways. A boost to heals or a reduced reuse timer.....especially on grp heal would be really useful. </P> <P>Now this is just my wet dream list of ap abilities but im putting it out there in the small hope(yes i still have hope) that Inquisitor ap abilities are not set in stone.</P> <P> </P> <P>P.S. Some dev high up in the SoE heirarchy plays a FURY(yah i said it), and they will never be nerfed due to high level corruption and bribery(prolly involving kinky sex,drugs, and illegal hentai)</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Rvaryen on <span class=date_text>11-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:11 AM</span>

Demoniac

11-16-2006, 08:55 PM

Well, these new AAs a lot of much better than beta.. that's the truth. if you take a look at beta inquisitor, you might throw up....<span>:smileysad:</span><div></div>

Spider

11-20-2006, 01:00 AM

<DIV>the new aas are a dram come true for a raid inquis </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>consider this your in the melee dps group </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>for aas u have all ur nice new strikes </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and of course ur 100 % crit with an NICE 2 hnder</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>dps buff everyone </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>throw up group reactive </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>hit yalup and fanaticism ( withte new stifle removal ) </DIV> <DIV>and u can start pounding out some serious dps on the raid REALY contributing to the raid for more than just being a buff bot for once </DIV>

bubbsd

11-24-2006, 09:58 AM

<P>just a bump to this post, i have been on beta and complain a lot, now its job to all inqui to wake up, i totally agree jina and lots of people</P> <P>i have made a suggestion tree on beta boards that dont acquiere lot of attention i will do it again here</P> <P> </P> <P>1. emergency and heal</P> <P> emergency reactive</P> <P> / </P> <P>resurrection convert (+%heal?)</P> <P> | |</P> <P>absolution fervent focus</P> <P>alternative to reach of faith => a cure (group) ability like +little heal</P> <P>disorientation between convert and act</P> <P> </P> <P>2. buffs</P> <P> pious</P> <P> / </P> <P>act of belief consecrated aura (+dps or +hitpoint or both)</P> <P> | |</P> <P>fanaticism (real enhance +dps/haste/int) chilling inquest (+%trigger) </P> <P>alternative to maladroit = adroit = temporary buff skill and attribute of group member </P> <P> </P> <P>3. debuff / impairement</P> <P> convict</P> <P> / </P> <P> debase devotee</P> <P> | |</P> <P>forced obedience fanatical vengeance</P> <P>punishement = like it was at begining = increase duration of debuff / impairement</P> <P>verdict between consecrated and debase</P> <P> </P> <P>4. dps melee</P> <P>i dont care about, same for those who like it ( they exist ?mmh)</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>like i have already said, its very easy to do good things about us, more difficult to do the sh... you have done</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Eithordye <Pandemonium> Storms</P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by bubbsd on <span class=date_text>11-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:00 PM</span>

fallingsn

11-24-2006, 11:59 AM

<DIV> <DIV>Actually, SOE really needs to fix our healing abilities by giving us the options to choose between Battle Priest and Healer. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I understand your point of view about you beliveing that we are a balanced class but that point of view is exactly the reason why we are currently broken.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The inquisitor is NOT a hybrid class. SOE does not classify us in that way now and when the class of created it was intended to be a pure healing class with greater debuff and reactive damage support capabilities.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again, don't misunderstand me. I again understand why you think that we have something to bring to groups but as it stands now the changes are unbalacing to the game and gameplay. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The number one reason it is unbalancin to gameplay is currently most apparent in PVP play. You see what SOE did to our class (which as a mistake) that can be hidden in PVE play become sorely obvious in PVP play. IE. The sides are split up and Raids, plus PVP battles for each of the Good and Evil side have a limited array of character classes to choose from. So, unlike PVE, where other classes can still be chosen from either good or evil or neutral character classes, PVP is impacted X10 fold by the design of character alignments per side. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IE... When freeport groups want to raid X4 epics or pvp EVERY guild turns to healers of every class which are availble. If you look at the make up of our guild for instance we are all FURYs and WARDENs for our healing. We fight tooth and nail for the few t7 defilers and inquisitors on our server with other top t7 raiding guilds. IT's like a freaking recruiting circus. WHY??? because there are so few around. But inquisitors who are very sought after because we CANNOT hire the following classes : mystic, templar are to our GUILD and more over OUR SIDE..(freeport) vs. the Qs are substandard in group and raid healing due to character population at T7 when compared to other healing classes. This hurts game balance both in PVP combat and on Raids. We have 2 inq at T7 to help with raids now in our guild and we are the Largest freaking guild on the server but they are soo upset at their lack of healing compared to our furies and wardens that they might quit. That leaves Freeport and our Guild with a healing deficit. These are not bad inqs mind you. They are infact extremely experienced (fully fabled gear and have been on countless raids) so... no bashing them for not knowing how to play their class please. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would ask that for the sake of Character population balance per utility skill I.E. (ratio of pure healers to hybrids to tanks to mages) for SOE at least to give the OPTION to inquisitors who are at their end game to be EITHER develop into battle priests or PURE healing support class. Because I am sure that I and others when we choose this class were thinking ourselves when we first created this class.. "hmm... I want to be a support class that is focused on healing" currently do not have the option to choose to groom our class in that direction at T7. . </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Still does not address the server population skew which exists on PvP servers. My post above really focuses on Game balance on pvp servers. IF the responses is "hey go roll another class" that simply exacerbates the issue. Too few Inquisitors on the freeport side impacts the total number of healing classes available to one side versus the other. There are far more healers available on the Q side in relation to the other classes. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If SOE pigeon holes inquisitors at the "END GAME" to be battle priests then many will simple stop leveling and "go roll another class" just as many people like to say when they try ot brush off this issue casually. This hurts / damages game balance and over all effects enjoyability of the game for everyone especially on pvp servers. My point focuses again on giving Inquisitors a CHOICE... be focused on healing OR damage for end game character development. This is a reasonable request. Faster cast times, bigger heals, more heal crits, special class only heals whatever. Just give us the OPTION. Then let the players decide which track they want to pursue. This makes the character more attractive without over powering the class because it represents a system based on trading off healing development for damage development. </DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>my 2Cents</DIV></DIV>

Spider

11-25-2006, 01:27 AM

<P>well if your guild is neglecting inquisiters then there just dumb period end of sentance </P> <P>ask ANY fp raid guild on pvp server that has used all teh different healers and all of them will beg for defilers and inquisitors </P> <P>the new aa's dont change that one bit and infact improve it now we have the same fantastic healing power and better debuffs and MORE dps whats not to love ? </P> <P>wre dotn NEED a boost to heals our heals already ROCK </P>

Alarick0

11-28-2006, 03:27 AM

<DIV>Seriously guys, if the healers are tying to DPS something is wrong here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When you are at the character creation screen what group are the Inquisitors in? Healers, not any of the DPS lines.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes hitting things with sticks can be fun, but, we are healers first and foremost.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't think it's too much to ask to take some of those AA abilitys that drop the reuse on emergency heals and make them into something usefull.</DIV> <DIV>That should make both camps happy, those that want to try and DPS a little will still have the battle line, and those of us that want to heal will have more than what we do now from the current AA line, wich is nothing.</DIV>

fallingsn

11-28-2006, 04:44 AM

<P>Here here.. I /agree. </P> <P> </P> <P>As for the person above that claimed than inquisitors have plenty of healing power...</P> <P> </P> <P>Umm please I would politely request that you completely read the posts before replying. I never said we ignored inquisitors in our guild. The point of the post was that in a break down of server population that inquisitors populations were skewed hopelessly to the left (IE... to few of them and contining to shrink) which I pointed out effects (ENDGAME) raiding power for T7 raids on pvp servers. Which I further backed up by stateing that even we... (the LARGEST guild on the server) suffer from a lack of inquisitors at T7 endgame. (AND WE HAVE THE MOST) thus it follows if we are suffering then the other guild are totally without.... </P> <P>This again effects GAME BALANCE... and as one of the original program managers of Asherons Call at Microsoft I can tell you that when GAME BALANCE is effected... THAT is when a character set should be evaluated for changes. Reaching T7 with ANY class is a huge investment in time. Reaching T7 or worse yet level cap at 70 with a inquisitor...ESPECIALLY on a pvp server where Inquisitors really are one the low end of the pvp pole.. can be truely a beastly experience. Thus is a server population analysis results in low inquistor and defiler population numbers. Now if their low populations only effected the people that decided to play those classes then so be it... but on a PVP server they dwindeling population effect the entire server. Unlike on pve servers we can fill our raid guild ranks with templars and mystics to fill the gap. We simply do not have the healing populations at level 70 to properly tackle the x4 epic mobs in the harder zones. This is certianly true of ALL the top guilds on my server-(names have been removed because guild leaders might fall into a fit of depression). Thus it effects the enjoyability of the game for everyone. </P>

Spider

11-29-2006, 01:41 AM

<P>personaly i believe the biggest reason inquisitors are under represented on pvp servers is mostly because of the difficulties they suffer in the 20-mid 30 range b4 we get a lot of our skills </P> <P>that and the lack of detailed knowlege of how to successfully pvp with an inquisitor </P> <P>while we will most often get wiped by casters an inquis can put up quite a good fight with any scout or fighter class </P> <P>and since those classes are over populated on pvp servers it realy puts us in a good place in that reguard </P> <P>more often than not the swashy's and rangers and monks and such on my server will seldom fight me in even numbers even when they have a lvl advantage </P> <P>another reason i belive they were a bit under populated is the out of combat healing trick other healers depended on wasnt a viable option for us the way it was for them but now thats no longer an issue either so well see what happens in that reguard as well </P> <P>as lastly to the lvl of my charicter comment well raiding is possible in some form or another at just about all levels after 20 and as skilled healer while i may not have raided the ubar lvl 70 zones i have raided in many other places and my current guild is in the proccess of getting all our members to 58 to start regularly raiding in that lvl range </P> <P>so in the future try to understand that a persons lvl doesnt = there knowledge of a subject </P> <P>ive healed in raids and other zones i was signifigantly underlvled for </P> <P>heck i was running as a healer in poets palace at lvl 48 just me and and a 50 fury doing all the healing for a group whos highest level was 58 ( except for our lvl 70 mentord to 58 tank) and we tore through the entire zone clearing it completely </P> <P>beyond that ive played a healer class in EVERY single game ive ever played so i know my role well </P>

juz

12-01-2006, 12:55 AM

<P>Spider, do you really think INQs heals/utility rock? To me they are the weakest at this moment.</P> <P>Who's weaker? Not the druids, they can burst heal a group faster than anyone...not the Shamans...Those wards do amazing stuff...and surely, you don't think an INQ heals better than a Templar?</P> <P>INQs heals are adequate but by no means they rock. They buff DPS very nicely but that's it. They don't buff survivability and debuffs are OK but nothing spectacular.</P> <P>If you like whacking mobs with your hammer thats cool, just don't say INQs rock 'cause right now it's sad.</P>

Ssinu

12-01-2006, 01:20 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>juzamaku wrote:<div></div> <p>Spider, do you really think INQs heals/utility rock? To me they are the weakest at this moment.</p> <p>Who's weaker? Not the druids, they can burst heal a group faster than anyone...not the Shamans...Those wards do amazing stuff...and surely, you don't think an INQ heals better than a Templar?</p> <p>INQs heals are adequate but by no means they rock. They buff DPS very nicely but that's it. They don't buff survivability and debuffs are OK but nothing spectacular.</p> <p>If you like whacking mobs with your hammer thats cool, just don't say INQs rock 'cause right now it's sad.</p><hr></blockquote>Agreed. I'm tired of seeing posts where people just subjectively say we are so awesome. If we are so awesome, post some ACT parses of yourself in comparision to other priests in the same situation. We know that there are abnormal situations for all classes, but it would be nice to have a discussion of how classes play out in day to day situations.I really don't see how anyone can say we are 'the best' outside of being really well thought out roleplay wise (hammer, plate, flames, evil etc).</div>

Larcain

12-02-2006, 02:46 AM

<DIV></DIV> <DIV>I don't know how to say this and have it come out so that I don't sound like a jerk, so I'm just gonna say it and not worry about how it sounds.</DIV> <DIV> For about 50ish levels, I grouped/duo'd with an SK. For much of that time, he would refer to me as the "best healer" in the game. Whether or not I am such, is besides the point. Him SAYING that meant that I was at the very least adequate. Now, I get to end game, attend raids and I might as well not be there. I use a parser to measure whether I (and I do me "I") should be doing better. I work HARD at healing, and yet, I see at the end of each combat, I have zero mana and I parse about 5th best as a healer in the raid. I have ALL master spells. ALL. I heal as fast as I am able, and I'm 5th? Translation: I might just as well not be there. What is the fun in that? I love being healer and the challenge of healing in tough spots. That pretty much leaves out raiding, because it appears as though if it falls to my class capabilities, our raid is probably dead anyway. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Having my dps upped is a joke. I'm sorry, but it reallly is. Twice nonconsequential= nonconsequential. I played an inquisitor to play and evil healer. And until level 40ish, that was pretty much what I was. Dropping my reactives my tank HEALED the tank AND HURT the mob. Now, that's the kind of dps I actually thought was cool. It really did make sense with what we are as a class. Being able to hit things faster, for a cleric, is just silly. Yeah, I have these spells so I can hit stuff. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good thing I have a few alts to play.</DIV>

Spider

12-02-2006, 03:23 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Larcain wrote:<BR> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>I don't know how to say this and have it come out so that I don't sound like a jerk, so I'm just gonna say it and not worry about how it sounds.</DIV> <DIV> For about 50ish levels, I grouped/duo'd with an SK. For much of that time, he would refer to me as the "best healer" in the game. Whether or not I am such, is besides the point. Him SAYING that meant that I was at the very least adequate. Now, I get to end game, attend raids and I might as well not be there. I use a parser to measure whether I (and I do me "I") should be doing better. I work HARD at healing, and yet, I see at the end of each combat, I have zero mana and I parse about 5th best as a healer in the raid. I have ALL master spells. ALL. I heal as fast as I am able, and I'm 5th? Translation: I might just as well not be there. What is the fun in that? I love being healer and the challenge of healing in tough spots. That pretty much leaves out raiding, because it appears as though if it falls to my class capabilities, our raid is probably dead anyway. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Having my dps upped is a joke. I'm sorry, but it reallly is. Twice nonconsequential= nonconsequential. I played an inquisitor to play and evil healer. And until level 40ish, that was pretty much what I was. Dropping my reactives my tank HEALED the tank AND HURT the mob. Now, that's the kind of dps I actually thought was cool. It really did make sense with what we are as a class. Being able to hit things faster, for a cleric, is just silly. Yeah, I have these spells so I can hit stuff. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good thing I have a few alts to play.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>who are u healing ? the tank ? or the dps group ? are there other healers in teh group with you? and if so what kind ? </P> <P>and what kinda damage is the group taking a few large hits or lots of small ones ? </P> <P>truth is its VERY situational if ur healing non plate tanks your healins is going to suffer emmensly which is a conundrum seeing as how we aid a dps group so much . if your in the mt group with say a defiler or mystic there wards completely jack our heals and we end up just picking up the over spill that thewards miss </P> <P>but in a situation where ur healing a plate tank and theres lots of hits constantly but not huge ones and ur tank has good mitigation we shine i love nothign more than when a tank hits oj and u throw a heal and watch em ramp up to full but if ur just dumping heals right and lef tyour just waisting power . casting a reactive when there at full health accomplishes nothing that will show on a parser of any kind but for all the parser junkies theres not a heal parser yet that accuratly displays healing 100% or even 90% for that matter so its all subjective </P> <P>all i know is the groups ive run with and the raids ,and groups and quests ive done i know my role and no one ever complains about my lack of heals </P>

quasigenx

12-02-2006, 04:27 AM

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Larcain wrote:<div></div><div> I work HARD at healing, and yet, I see at the end of each combat, I have zero mana and I parse about 5th best as a healer in the raid. </div><hr></blockquote>How high you parse on heals for a raid is mostly what group you're in. When I'm (rarely) in the MT group, I can top the parse no problem. When I'm not, I tend to parse close to the bottom of the list.The difference is that the people I'm healing don't take enough damage to get me to the top of the parser. Even when the fights have AEs, you won't touch the MT group, which gets to heal the AE as well as all the regular one on one damage to the MT.If you're not assigned to heal the MT, but you're doing it anyway, you may parse higher, but you're wasting your power as well as the power of the MT cleric.</div><p>Message Edited by quasigenx on <span class=date_text>12-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:28 PM</span>

Spider

12-03-2006, 12:48 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> quasigenx wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Larcain wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV> I work HARD at healing, and yet, I see at the end of each combat, I have zero mana and I parse about 5th best as a healer in the raid. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>How high you parse on heals for a raid is mostly what group you're in. When I'm (rarely) in the MT group, I can top the parse no problem. When I'm not, I tend to parse close to the bottom of the list.<BR><BR>The difference is that the people I'm healing don't take enough damage to get me to the top of the parser. Even when the fights have AEs, you won't touch the MT group, which gets to heal the AE as well as all the regular one on one damage to the MT.<BR><BR>If you're not assigned to heal the MT, but you're doing it anyway, you may parse higher, but you're wasting your power as well as the power of the MT cleric.<BR></DIV> <P>Message Edited by quasigenx on <SPAN class=date_text>12-01-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:28 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>yeah theres sooo many variables to consider with a healing parse but if your in a good raid and ur in the dps group you should basicaly always be in the bottom of the parse because all your doing is picking up the ocasional aoe damage and if ur tank slips up and the offtank doesnt catch it the occasional agro steal from a dpser although even then if im in the dps group and someone pulls agro its often more effecient to wait till hes about to die and hit redemption

Demoniac

12-03-2006, 09:26 AM

well I am not sure how far you guy go in eof. that is a totally truth statement in kos.. I totally agree with you guys.. but in eof, the things are changed. some mobs AE reange changed to 65 at max. some of them even MT group has to take the AEs. it's very common in eof right?? in EoF, if you say i can heal as good as a fury or a warden. you better get some prove. i would like to see anyone can do 600 hps in 5 mins ( actually if you try it you will know it's completely impossible ) if you ask a warden? they can beat 1200 hps in 5 mins easy ( double your healing mount ) the highest i've seen 1900. same question i have to repeat, if any inquisitor can beat 1k hps please let us know. don't believe this? try the pumpkin guy in LP you will understand what i mean.<div></div>

Beragon

12-03-2006, 11:43 AM

<DIV>After a few tests, alot Adorments, some *Healing or Semetry Items*, i got towards the point. Inquis never and cant heal as good as the other Healer Classes, we are right now the last with the Healing Skills. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I tested our "Kind of" Dps, APs and will change them soon, they are nice but for what ? Its nice for PvP, but for Epics fight you still have to Debuff / Heal thats all. </DIV> <DIV>Its true, for EoF fights you mostly cant get out of the AoE ( on some you need ), so the +5meter radius for Heals / Debuffs is pretty useless.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There we have 2 other options, the Malovent ( 25% lower attris on Enemy ) and the Punishmend ( Inc Hate ). Just there is a single problem, on the Punishment, if you cast it on an Epic and its trigger right when the mob Aggro wipes, the person who is on the next target has an hard life.</DIV> <DIV>About the (25% lower attris ) no clue yet, after tons of parsing i didnt really found out what it does exactly, so at all...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>still parsing tons of infos, maybie i got a clue sometimes )</DIV>

Demoniac

12-03-2006, 08:05 PM

for MaladroitI talked to Ssinurn, she was right. a lot of people doesn't really understand what it does do. including myself before I actually talked to her. I have to say this spell is totally useless. what exactly it does? once a mob or a player cast a spell does decrease attributes or skills ( crushing slashing that kinna type ). it will decrease the AE or that spell 25% less on you. for example, i cast a spell decrease all your attributes 36. so basically it will decrease your str/agi/sta/int/wis by 36. if you have Maladroit on it will decrease 28 to all instead of 36.<div></div>

Spider

12-04-2006, 12:47 AM

honestly i think its gonna take a LOT of testign of a lot of things b4 we truely know all the details with all the new aa's and all the new zones but instance , open , and raid

JmSte

12-04-2006, 02:23 AM

<DIV>Before I was actually able to test any of our new abilities, I was pretty optimistic about most of them; now I'm pretty much convinced that all our end line abilities are more useless than they are useful when it comes to raiding. GG SoE.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maladroit: 25% less is really nothing - debilitating effects and other things like level drains (if maladroit even has an effect on this) are still going to cripple the tank if not cured. The power cost for this ability seems way too much for how low the percent is. It might be worth getting if the percentage was much higher.</DIV> <DIV>Punishment: Our tanks have never really had issues with maintaining aggro so far in the expansion. In fact, the only time they might have a problem with aggro is during a mem wipe, which would make it more of a hinderance than helpful for the tank. Maybe it'll be worthwhile later who knows.</DIV> <DIV>Battle cleric: No use as of yet for raiding.</DIV> <DIV>Reach of Faith: I dunno how useful this really is - I currently have it, but it does nothing for the effect radius on group spells which is disappointing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Overall, there really isn't much to look forward to for us IMO. Upgrade to debuffs is nice and some of the triage enchancements are nice but end line abilities are where its at for most other classes.<BR></DIV>

Demoniac

12-04-2006, 04:55 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>JmStein wrote:<div></div> <div> </div> <div>Maladroit: 25% less is really nothing - debilitating effects and other things like level drains (<font color="#cc3300">if maladroit even has an effect on this</font>) are still going to cripple the tank if not cured. The power cost for this ability seems way too much for how low the percent is. It might be worth getting if the percentage was much higher.</div> <div>Punishment: Our tanks have never really had issues with maintaining aggro so far in the expansion. In fact, the only time they might have a problem with aggro is during a mem wipe, which would make it more of a hinderance than helpful for the tank. Maybe it'll be worthwhile later who knows.</div> <div>Battle cleric: No use as of yet for raiding.</div> <div>Reach of Faith: I dunno how useful this really is - I currently have it, but it does nothing for the effect radius on group spells which is disappointing.</div> <div> </div> <div>Overall, there really isn't much to look forward to for us IMO. Upgrade to debuffs is nice and some of the triage enchancements are nice but end line abilities are where its at for most other classes.</div><hr></blockquote>no Sir. Maladroit only works for Attributes and Skill debuffs. it doesn nothing to dispatch and debilitate.</div>

JmSte

12-04-2006, 12:44 PM

<DIV>Even less usefull than I had hoped :smileysad:</DIV>

Ssinu

12-04-2006, 08:34 PM

<div></div><div></div>Again, if you fight in EoF you will see what Maldroit does. Jina's description is right. The mobs that have these stat debuffs are UNCUREABLE. So that is when you use them. Vamps in Inner Sanctum, mobs in Emerald Hills all have these debuffs, next time you see an uncurable AoE take a look at what it is doing in EoF. ( I think the Pumpkin headed horseman also had one). To look, the best way is to take your mouse and hover over the ill effect, screenshot it (it usually has many lines.) Then if you want to test Maldroit, cast your debuff before AoE goes off (duration one minute) and hover/screenshot again. You will see the 25% reduction. <font color="#ccccff"><b>The only reason this would take a "lot" of time is if you ignore some of what the people on this board say or you are not of the level of these things to affect you. I.E if you aren't 70 and/or still fighting in KoS or lower, sure some Achievements affect you, but something like Maldroit does not.</b></font>This spell is not as useful in groups or solo - maybe there is a boss in the 1 group instances its useful on but non come across my mind.I already have tons of parses from beta, and currently to see what things did/do - so no we dont need 'lots of time to understand'. I admit I personally didn't catch the bug with Fanaticism, but thats my own personal bias, I played with the CA stuff for maybe one day tops cause I didn't see it useful for myself. All I did was look for DPS. However, things like Reach of Faith not affecting all spells - yea I tested that. Here is a copy of a post in beta of bugs I caught first day testing. I encourage folks to take a look at the list and see if things are resolved or not. I'm also posting this cause I'm just one person who saved her posts - I'm sure there were other Inquis that tested things also cause I saw their nice posts. Don't be so quick to assume no one did anything in beta. I did tests with various free respec's and 100 Achievements to play with. (Note Some of these achievements dont even exist now). Testing all the abilities that day took me about 3-4 hours to test and write up on heroics. I'm sure anyone can do the same thing with their *current* Achievement lines.<font color="#cc0000">*****FROM BETA <b>****NOT CURRENT</b>*****JUST A LIST OF THINGS TO CHECK FROM BETA********</font><font face="Verdana" size="2"><b><font color="#cc9999">Achievement List:*Bugged List*==========</font></b></font><font face="Verdana" size="2"><b><font color="#993399">Enhance: Forced Submission</font> </b>= Bugged, Does not work - does not increase debuff amount (2<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, and does not scale in rank. (I have Master 2 of this ability, do not know if that affects this.</font><font face="Verdana" size="2"><font color="#993399"><b>Enhance: Heretic's Demise</b></font> = Bugged with a display bug and description bug - heretic's is heat based not disease - this seems to be a display bug. Also says increases resist reduction when it really increases damage. Scales in rank from 753-920 Master 1 level to 821 - 1003 @ rank 3.</font><font face="Verdana" size="2"><font color="#993399"><b>Reach of Faith</b></font> = Bugged for some spells; works for others; Scales in rank from 1.0 to 5.0 meters @ rank 5.Examples:Cure Elemental 20m now 25m @ rank 5; working<font color="#993399">Reproachful Alleviation Range 20m now 20m - bugged</font>Fanatical Healing Range 20m now 25m; working<font color="#993399">Malevolent Diatribe 25m now 25m; bugged</font>Devoted Ministration 20m now 25m; workingSuffering Penance 20m now 25m; workingCompelled Repentance 25m now 30m; workingDebase was 25m now 30m; workingForced Obediance working was 25m now 30m</font><font face="Verdana" size="2"><font color="#993399"><b>Enhance: Fervent Focus</b></font> = Bugged; Does not work - from 45 sec recast to 45 sec recast. Scales in level from 3 to 9 second improvement.</font><font face="Verdana" size="2"><font color="#993399"><b>Radiance Within</b></font> = Bugged; Does not add an ability to abilities tab or spell book. Cost per rank is 5 instead of 1 for other abilities at this level. It is not an end line ability.</font><font face="Verdana" size="2"><font color="#993399"><b>Enhance: Retaliation</b></font> = Bugged - does not increase trigger count in the text of the Retaliation line spells. Scales with level from 1 to 3 more attacks @ Rank 3<b><font color="#993399">Mastery Crush</font></b> = Bugged? Adds an ability to spell book but does not share timer with the Mastery smites. Is this intended?<font color="#993399"></font><font color="#993399"><b>Enhance Verdict</b></font><font color="#993399"> </font>= Bugged. Text adds a bunch of items to all spells and the spell doesn't seem to do anything. See other post for more detail: <a target="_blank" href="message?board.id=eof_beta_priests&message.id=1">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=eof_beta_priests&message.id=1</a></font><font color="#cc0000">*****FROM BETA <b>****NOT CURRENT</b>*****JUST A LIST OF THINGS TO CHECK FROM BETA********</font><font color="#cc0000"></font><div></div><p>Message Edited by Ssinurn on <span class=date_text>12-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:44 AM</span>

JmSte

12-05-2006, 02:05 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ssinurn wrote:<BR> Again, if you fight in EoF you will see what Maldroit does. Jina's description is right. The mobs that have these stat debuffs are UNCUREABLE. So that is when you use them. Vamps in Inner Sanctum, mobs in Emerald Hills all have these debuffs, next time you see an uncurable AoE take a look at what it is doing in EoF. ( I think the Pumpkin headed horseman also had one). To look, the best way is to take your mouse and hover over the ill effect, screenshot it (it usually has many lines.) Then if you want to test Maldroit, cast your debuff before AoE goes off (duration one minute) and hover/screenshot again. You will see the 25% reduction. <FONT color=#ccccff><B>The only reason this would take a "lot" of time is if you ignore some of what the people on this board say or you are not of the level of these things to affect you. I.E if you aren't 70 and/or still fighting in KoS or lower, sure some Achievements affect you, but something like Maldroit does not.</B></FONT><BR><BR>This spell is not as useful in groups or solo - maybe there is a boss in the 1 group instances its useful on but non come across my mind.<BR><BR>I already have tons of parses from beta, and currently to see what things did/do - so no we dont need 'lots of time to understand'. I admit I personally didn't catch the bug with Fanaticism, but thats my own personal bias, I played with the CA stuff for maybe one day tops cause I didn't see it useful for myself. All I did was look for DPS. However, things like Reach of Faith not affecting all spells - yea I tested that. Here is a copy of a post in beta of bugs I caught first day testing. I encourage folks to take a look at the list and see if things are resolved or not. I'm also posting this cause I'm just one person who saved her posts - I'm sure there were other Inquis that tested things also cause I saw their nice posts. Don't be so quick to assume no one did anything in beta. I did tests with various free respec's and 100 Achievements to play with. (Note Some of these achievements dont even exist now). Testing all the abilities that day took me about 3-4 hours to test and write up on heroics. I'm sure anyone can do the same thing with their *current* Achievement lines.<BR><FONT color=#cc0000><BR></FONT> <P>Message Edited by Ssinurn on <SPAN class=date_text>12-04-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>09:44 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yup, I actually did read your post and was aware of the many bug issues before EoF release. I even posted about what I thought Maladroit would be used for before even testing it myself when a lot of other people were asking about it: uncurable debuffs on the MT or even the whole raid. The more I think about it though, 25% doesn't seem like much for the amount of power it costs (500 some every minute). And also, the extra 6 points (in my case) that I personally would rather not spend don't seem to be worth the amount of use Maladroit would actually get. IMO it would be more useful if it was either a higher percentage or another class had a similar AA that stacked with ours.</P> <P>I also didn't mean to imply that Reach of Faith is actually bugged, because our group spells don't exactly have a 'range' but rather an 'effect radius'. I guess I didn't read the description carefully enough when I got the AA - this is mainly why I said I was disappointed.</P> <P>Overall, the majority of your list pretty much still stands though (although I haven't tested all of those AAs). The Fervent Focus enchancement seems to be working correctly now as well as the Forced Obedience enchancement.</P><p>Message Edited by JmStein on <span class=date_text>12-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:07 PM</span>

Spider

12-06-2006, 12:52 AM

i still say its truely far to early to tell there arnt very many if any people with 100 aa just yet and out of those even fwer if any are inquis and even fewer than that if any are fully geared to max potential

jago quicksilver

12-06-2006, 01:25 AM

its not too early to tell at all. We have descriptions of our AAs, so we know what they do, and we have seen the very best gear we can get and what kind of stats/buffs it has.

Ssinu

12-06-2006, 01:45 AM

Isperl I (and other Inquisitors) 100 AA on beta. Like I said, sure it might take a while if you dont raid or aren't even in KoS yet.<div></div>

Spider

12-06-2006, 01:50 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ssinurn wrote:<BR>Isperl I (and other Inquisitors) 100 AA on beta. Like I said, sure it might take a while if you dont raid or aren't even in KoS yet.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>um i do raid and goto kos jsut nto quite up to doing the hardest stuff yet </P> <P>my sigs a bit outdated im 53 and still climbing steadly</P>

Ssinu

12-06-2006, 01:53 AM

<div></div>Also you don't need 100 AA to spec an ability and see if it works or not. You only need 21 to see an end line ability, and that's what people are discussing. I have no idea about pvp, but I'm knowledgeable about the stuff I work on every night -- so you won't see me in a pvp thread arguing pvp mechanics, likewise someone who doesn't experience the content we are discussing doesn't need to be arguing with others in a thread on that topic.P.S. What are you raiding in KoS at level 53?<div></div><p>Message Edited by Ssinurn on <span class=date_text>12-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:55 PM</span>

ParlMoebius

12-06-2006, 01:58 AM

<DIV>I'll say first off hello to all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've recently rolled an Inquisitor. Started at launch with a Troll Defiler (talk about a broken class! at that point at least) and I've been wanting another Troll ever since. My main is a Templar, and I've got an ever changing army of alts as well. My Templar is spec'd for DPS, but I'm not terribly happy with him as such (though much more so than before KOS!) and that is the reason I went for the Inquis. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm a little confused over what is being argued even. SOE stated from the start that the AA system was there to provide more variation to your class... so when you are standing next to that other Inquisitor, you didnt feel cookie cutter (if you so desired). In my book, the more choices I can make about the direction my character is going, the happier I will be. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its natural for individual views to be centric and subjective to their own opinions and playstyles. But keep in mind the dev's have to (attempt) to be more objective than we are. They have to try and accomodate those who solo, duo/small group, full group, or raid. They've also made some attempts to tailor some things to PvP players. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not going to comment on the Inquisitor AA lines, or abilities really, until I've played my troll up some. But It doesnt seem to me that anything has been taken from you. And coming from the Templar side, honestly, it doesnt seem that we've gotten anything that you should be so envious about. There are plenty of people Qeynos side that are not happy with the deity choices for us. Yeah, we've got Tunare. Meh. I dont like her, so I'm not going to worship her. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For me, I prefer Duoing and small groups. I'll raid occasionally, probably more so now that I'm reaching end game content with my templar, but its not the love of my life. To me, the inquisitor seems an excellent choice for what I'm looking for. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And lastly, my 2cp on the the cleric archtype... if Inquisitors were supposed to be simply evil versions of Templars, they would share the exact same spells and abilities, albeit with different names. I dont think they were ever intended to be indentical counterparts. You've got feel-good healing and righteous indignation on one side, and torture and fiery zealotry on the other.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Straight healing power isnt everything <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by ParlMoebius on <span class=date_text>12-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:03 PM</span>

Ssinu

12-06-2006, 02:17 AM

<div></div><div></div>Welcome Parl,<font color="#cc99cc">I'll try to sum up the issue at hand. <b>No one minds if there are different paths/gearing options for Inquisitors</b>. What people are in arms about is the fact that there isn't equal representation for all our facets (heals, dps, utility). </font><font color="#ffffcc"></font><font color="#ffffcc">- No one is asking for all our AA to be healing oriented, just some. Healing could also mean utility, reverse procs, etc but at the end of the day, supporting keeping your group alive.</font><font color="#ffffcc"></font><font color="#ffffcc">- Others are posting about bugs in our abilities (see Fanaticism and Verdict).</font><font color="#ffffcc"></font><font color="#ffffcc">- People want Inquisitors to be best at or at least desired for raids - in some area - no one is asking for us to be the best at all or a few.</font>- We have 2 rather good debuffs (Forced Obdience and Debase) and Maldroit has uses in some EoF content.<font color="#cc99cc"></font><font color="#cc99cc">What some folks don't seem to understand is:</font><font color="#cc99cc"></font><font color="#cc99cc"> </font>- No one said we can't heal a group or solo. In fact all 6 priests can do this just fine in almost all areas. The area Inquisitors are weak on currently is raiding. We provide +DPS buff and a proc (when concentration allows). Our heals are best used for groups where multiple melee are taking muiltiple hits, and most raid groups have 2 healers not one making this not useful.- Just because you have an ability or a spell in your book doesn't mean its helpful in current game mechanics (Example: Would you want to have +1000 divine mitigation buff or a +1000 magic buff? Both buff but one is more useful on EQ2 content. Or more to the point, would you want a 4th dot that does our lowest per tick DPS (Affliction) or some other utility that is helpful - like a WIS buff or something for ourselves.)The thing is - if someone made a chart and broke down numbers about healing capacity, buffing amounts, debuff amounts, utilities, and DPS we wouldnt be at the top of any of them and in some cases not even in the middle. <b>These differences are not seen and do not matter at the solo/group/duo level.</b><font color="#99cccc"><b>Does this mean you won't have fun playing your Inquis alt or new Inquis toy on solo/duo content or in groups? Of course not! I certainly agree we are fun there. We aren't even the highest solo/duo DPS or in groups, but I truly believe we are adequate and this does not need balancing or changing.</b></font><font color="#cc99cc"><b>But then we get folks arguing with people in *raid situations* saying well I'm fun solo/duo/group, you must be wrong about raids! The fallacy is - apples to oranges. No one is saying Inquisitors are the worst thing SoE ever dreamt of, but in the Inquisitor raiding department we need some TLC. This TLC balancing can be achieved by not just concentraiting on healing, but buffing, procs, reverse procs - heck in T5 we had +dmg on our reactives! No one is asking for Inquisitors to be better at healing than Templars, just that we bring more to the table in raid environs.Also, just a note on the DPS thing - We aren't even winning that contest. Every instance of "Leet DPS" for raids is one of the following:- in a special group where procs/buffs that are probably better on another class are placed upon you.- trivial content where healing is not needed and you are spending your entire time dpsing and debuffing.- special encounter where something like Heretic's can be used to spike our DPS.</b><font color="#99ffcc">Those are great things and most people post vaguely about "Leet DPS" but aren't willing to part with details of how it was achieved when its always one of the above 3 things. If your play style you would like to see Inquisitor DPS rising on raids you aren't even asking for the right things. I haven't seen one pro-DPS post pointing out that in normal conditions (ie in a non optimal raid group without the best procs on you or on a raid where you actually have to heal) that we are still one of the lowest DPS classes compared to others that are able to continue healing AND DPS at the same time. </font><font color="#99ffcc"><b></b></font></font>The thing is, if there were a path for good Inquisitor DPS, Inquisitor Debuffs/Utility and one for Inquisitor Defense, there probably would be a lot less posts or complaining right now.<div></div><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Ssinurn on <span class=date_text>12-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:39 PM</span>

JmSte

12-06-2006, 02:53 AM

<DIV>I think it would be sweet if they brought back the +damage on our reactives - maybe change a few of our less useful AAs to add +damage or even +threat for the tank on our reactives. This was one of the best ways SoE differentiated us from Templars back in the day, and it even makes sense for our class.</DIV>

Spider

12-06-2006, 03:09 AM

<DIV><FONT color=#ffffcc>- People want Inquisitors to be best at or at least desired for raids - in some area - no one is asking for us to be the best at all or a few.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffcc></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffcc></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ffcc>i just wanna point out the simple fact that we ARE the best at somethigns in a raid i.e PROVIDING the dps group with an enormous increase in DPS that is most often our primary function in a raid an no other class can come close to adding what we add in that aspect </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ffcc>while were not the BEST of the BEST ubar healers were also not ment to be we can heal quite well int he right group set up but in a raid were mostly there to enhance the dps group </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffcc><FONT color=#66ffcc>and while in my discussions on things i do refer to pvp servers im NOT refering to pvp just the fact that on a pvp server for those on fp side there is no option to get a templar instead we have what we have and we cannot cross city group for raids unless u wanna deal witht he crap that is an exile raid guild and belive me those never last long w/o dropping into massive drama and other bs</FONT> </FONT></DIV>

JmSte

12-06-2006, 03:55 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffcc>- People want Inquisitors to be best at or at least desired for raids - in some area - no one is asking for us to be the best at all or a few.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffcc></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffcc></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ffcc>i just wanna point out the simple fact that we ARE the best at somethigns in a raid i.e PROVIDING the dps group with an enormous increase in DPS that is most often our primary function in a raid an no other class can come close to adding what we add in that aspect </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ffcc>while were not the BEST of the BEST ubar healers were also not ment to be we can heal quite well int he right group set up but in a raid were mostly there to enhance the dps group </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffcc><FONT color=#66ffcc>and while in my discussions on things i do refer to pvp servers im NOT refering to pvp just the fact that on a pvp server for those on fp side there is no option to get a templar instead we have what we have and we cannot cross city group for raids unless u wanna deal witht he crap that is an exile raid guild and belive me those never last long w/o dropping into massive drama and other bs</FONT> </FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I used to think that this was what made us stand out, yet now I'm not so sure. Templars can now buff the offensive abilities of their group with their increased proc rate AA which can add a significant amount of overall DPS. If I were DPS I'd probably take either a templar or an inquisitor now.</P>

Ssinu

12-06-2006, 04:17 AM

<div></div>Right. No where did I say Inquisitors are worthless, but could you defeat all encounters in game without one? You bet. In fact I mentioned our DPS buff in our post. We certainly are not the only class to provide +offense to a group.Now try that with some of the MT healer classes and it doesn't work so well. The other classes that aren't 'needed' to complete raid content get other things to compensate (such as Mystic slows or Fury DPS). No one is saying we have zero debuffs/buffs and bring nothing to the table, but in the raid department (that means t6/t7/t8 Fabled gear - if you are wearing tradeskill gear then this doesn't apply to you) we just need a revamp. Make sure all spells are working, give us a bit more flavor and usefulness and I will be quiet.You just get the feeling playing an Inquisitor is something people do as an alt or for RP reasons and not a class people *need* on raids. Those of us who have stuck to this for 2 years probably have hoped our day would come again.There are 6 priests and 24 classes in this game. Some are overpowered, some are weak, some are buggy, some are neglected, some are fun, and some are fun to play for RP reasons. Personally I would like all priests to have unique and fun and useful things to do.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Ssinurn on <span class=date_text>12-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:18 PM</span>

Spider

12-06-2006, 04:38 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ssinurn wrote:<BR> Right. No where did I say Inquisitors are worthless, but could you defeat all encounters in game without one? You bet. In fact I mentioned our DPS buff in our post. We certainly are not the only class to provide +offense to a group.<BR><BR>Now try that with some of the MT healer classes and it doesn't work so well. The other classes that aren't 'needed' to complete raid content get other things to compensate (such as Mystic slows or Fury DPS). <BR><BR>No one is saying we have zero debuffs/buffs and bring nothing to the table, but in the raid department (that means t6/t7/t8 Fabled gear - if you are wearing tradeskill gear then this doesn't apply to you) we just need a revamp. Make sure all spells are working, give us a bit more flavor and usefulness and I will be quiet.<BR><BR>You just get the feeling playing an Inquisitor is something people do as an alt or for RP reasons and not a class people *need* on raids. Those of us who have stuck to this for 2 years probably have hoped our day would come again.<BR><BR>There are 6 priests and 24 classes in this game. Some are overpowered, some are weak, some are buggy, some are neglected, some are fun, and some are fun to play for RP reasons. Personally I would like all priests to have unique and fun and useful things to do.<BR><BR><BR> <P>Message Edited by Ssinurn on <SPAN class=date_text>12-05-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:18 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>bro theres not a single calss in the game that cant be left out of a raid </P> <P>i mean theres always gonna be one specific raid encounter that might need sone specific class every time but over all most raids can be done with one class or another left out ...are they harder because of it ? sure but are they impossible ? not at all </P> <P>on pvp fps raid every day w/o templars we use inquis defiler and fury and warden </P> <P>while a guardian or zerker might be the best at tanking most raids it can be done with an sk and some ca even be done with a /gasp bruiser </P> <P>it might be harder but not immpossible , i mean cmon if anyone has a right to complain about not being the best at there base calss job its bruiser/monk i mean its ten times harder for them to tank a raid than it is for an inquis to heal one but they do it </P> <P>truth is anything is possible and were a lot more versitle then most other healers we CAN and do provide a huge boost to a dps group but also we can main heal a plate mt on a raid is it a tad harder for us than other healers ? sure probably but what we lost there we more than gained in vesatility </P>

Demoniac

12-06-2006, 05:04 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>lspiderl wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#cc0000">bro</font> theres not a single calss in the game that cant be left out of a raid </p> <p>i mean theres always gonna be one specific raid encounter that might need sone specific class every time but over all most raids can be done with one class or another left out ...are they harder because of it ? sure but are they impossible ? not at all </p> <p>on pvp fps raid every day w/o templars we use inquis defiler and fury and warden </p> <p>while a guardian or zerker might be the best at tanking most raids it can be done with an sk and some ca even be done with a /gasp bruiser </p> <p>it might be harder but not immpossible , i mean cmon if anyone has a right to complain about not being the best at there base calss job its bruiser/monk i mean its ten times harder for them to tank a raid than it is for an inquis to heal one but they do it </p> <p>truth is anything is possible and were a lot more versitle then most other healers we CAN and do provide a huge boost to a dps group but also we can main heal a plate mt on a raid is it a tad harder for us than other healers ? sure probably but what we lost there we more than gained in vesatility </p><hr></blockquote>Lady <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></div>

JmSte

12-06-2006, 05:24 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>bro theres not a single calss in the game that cant be left out of a raid </P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>i mean theres always gonna be one specific raid encounter that might need sone specific class every time but over all most raids can be done with one class or another left out ...are they harder because of it ? sure but are they impossible ? not at all </P> <P>on pvp fps raid every day w/o templars we use inquis defiler and fury and warden </P> <P>while a guardian or zerker might be the best at tanking most raids it can be done with an sk and some ca even be done with a /gasp bruiser </P> <P>it might be harder but not immpossible , i mean cmon if anyone has a right to complain about not being the best at there base calss job its bruiser/monk i mean its ten times harder for them to tank a raid than it is for an inquis to heal one but they do it </P> <P>truth is anything is possible and were a lot more versitle then most other healers we CAN and do provide a huge boost to a dps group but also we can main heal a plate mt on a raid is it a tad harder for us than other healers ? sure probably but what we lost there we more than gained in vesatility </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Of course its possible, but the real question is who would a raiding guild rather take on a raid? Unlike PvP servers, guilds on PvE servers have a choice, and 99% of the time, I could tell you who they would choose. Lots of classes are facing the same issue as we are now and some for a very long time.<p>Message Edited by JmStein on <span class=date_text>12-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:38 PM</span>

Spider

12-06-2006, 05:46 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Demoniac wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote:<BR> <P><FONT color=#cc0000>bro</FONT> theres not a single calss in the game that cant be left out of a raid </P> <P>i mean theres always gonna be one specific raid encounter that might need sone specific class every time but over all most raids can be done with one class or another left out ...are they harder because of it ? sure but are they impossible ? not at all </P> <P>on pvp fps raid every day w/o templars we use inquis defiler and fury and warden </P> <P>while a guardian or zerker might be the best at tanking most raids it can be done with an sk and some ca even be done with a /gasp bruiser </P> <P>it might be harder but not immpossible , i mean cmon if anyone has a right to complain about not being the best at there base calss job its bruiser/monk i mean its ten times harder for them to tank a raid than it is for an inquis to heal one but they do it </P> <P>truth is anything is possible and were a lot more versitle then most other healers we CAN and do provide a huge boost to a dps group but also we can main heal a plate mt on a raid is it a tad harder for us than other healers ? sure probably but what we lost there we more than gained in vesatility </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Lady <SPAN>:smileyvery-happy:</SPAN><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>manny pardons ma'am /tiphat

Spider

12-06-2006, 05:50 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JmStein wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>bro theres not a single calss in the game that cant be left out of a raid </P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>i mean theres always gonna be one specific raid encounter that might need sone specific class every time but over all most raids can be done with one class or another left out ...are they harder because of it ? sure but are they impossible ? not at all </P> <P>on pvp fps raid every day w/o templars we use inquis defiler and fury and warden </P> <P>while a guardian or zerker might be the best at tanking most raids it can be done with an sk and some ca even be done with a /gasp bruiser </P> <P>it might be harder but not immpossible , i mean cmon if anyone has a right to complain about not being the best at there base calss job its bruiser/monk i mean its ten times harder for them to tank a raid than it is for an inquis to heal one but they do it </P> <P>truth is anything is possible and were a lot more versitle then most other healers we CAN and do provide a huge boost to a dps group but also we can main heal a plate mt on a raid is it a tad harder for us than other healers ? sure probably but what we lost there we more than gained in vesatility </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Of course its possible, but the real question is who would a raiding guild rather take on a raid? Unlike PvP servers, guilds on PvE servers have a choice, and 99% of the time, I could tell you who they would choose. Lots of classes are facing the same issue as we are now and some for a very long time. <P>Message Edited by JmStein on <SPAN class=date_text>12-05-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:38 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>i understand you point but thign is raiding guilds will ALWAYS want inquisitors because they bring more to the table for the dps group than any other healer </P> <P>while we may be less often chosen for the mt healer so be it thats our best function in those situations </P> <P>and on pvp servers we have more chance of being an mt healer but at the same time it simply puts us even more in demand because were still needed for the dps group and since its a pvp server and healers are under represented were highly sought after </P> <P>and as for the person that asked what im raiding at 53 well bro a lot and due tot he need for good and experianced healers and ther underrepresentation on pvp servers yes i have healed for many things while severly under lvl and still come out on top because experiance speaks where lvls lack </P>

quasigenx

12-06-2006, 09:24 PM

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Ssinurn wrote:<div></div><div></div>The thing is - if someone made a chart and broke down numbers about healing capacity, buffing amounts, debuff amounts, utilities, and DPS we wouldnt be at the top of any of them and in some cases not even in the middle. <b>These differences are not seen and do not matter at the solo/group/duo level.</b><hr></blockquote>Being well rounded and versitile is an asset in of itself. If classes were balanced using a hypothetical grid like this, the balance would occur on the sum total of all categories added together, not on whether every class is the best at atleast one thing.For example, a class that was not #1 in any of these categories, but instead #2 in ALL of them would be extremely over-powered, IMO. And yet they are not better than healer class X in any given category.I'm not sure it's even true that we would not be at the top in a single catagory. I would argue that we are at the top of DPS in terms of our DPS + group DPS buffs. Also, I would aggro we come out near the top if you somehow quantified and totalled healing + buffing + DPS + utility among the healers.</div><p>Message Edited by quasigenx on <span class=date_text>12-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:25 AM</span>

ericshaitan

12-06-2006, 09:26 PM

Well I have to say one thing. Even though I get no abilies from EoF that enchance my Raid statistics.... My Blue AoE is the SHIZNIT! I love that thing. <div></div>

Ssinu

12-06-2006, 09:39 PM

<div></div><div></div><div></div>There is such a chart... I just want to see it extended with new EoF information and concentrated on priests. In fact the author put a lot of time in and did all classes not just priests - I would like to see the discussion go down this route instead of subjective opinion without fact.<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=89606&view=by_date_ascending&page=1" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=89606&view=by_date_ascending&page=1</a>Obviously that chart is out of date, but yea that's more of what I would like to see. Like if you take the buff chart - I would think buffing something like Divine mitigation (with current game encounters ) is almost like not having a buff at all since mobs do not AE divine. Then we only buff STA, DPS and a group proc, but we certainly aren't the only priest to buff STA or a proc. Is our DPS buff from parses so much higher to warrant taking the hit buffing we do? I don't know. That's why I have started collecting data on my melee group - one encounter no dps/no act of conviction then adding them in and seeing how great it is. If we make one for DPS and utility then we would be set. Remember DPS isn't raw DPS and given the changes that have occured in the game, who can say how good that buff is now? That's why people have discussion based on facts and not what it was like in T6.Do you think other priests are not versatile? <p>Message Edited by Ssinurn on <span class=date_text>12-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:52 AM</span>