the EoF bettle priest damage type AA is way worse than you think ( Nov 4, 2006 )

[Demoniac]

<div></div><div></div>I've heard the EoF beta NDA is lifted so... if it is not.. please just delete my post thank you...------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------first of all damage output in generalI am not talking about healing abilities. i am talking about dps. I will have to compare to both damage lines melee or magic. so, for the magic line. I am pretty happy about it. my dps is 600 -1100 on solo target. 600 - 900 on heroic mobs.. i can solo the level 72 heroic gargoryal in LP. it's quite smooth. for the new AA damage, I can't even solo a level 69 heroic mob. I removed all my new stuff. I removed all the AAs. i can solo that heroic wolf with completely no EoF thing. not a problem at all...again by using those new dof spells or CAs, I can't solo it. that means it goes worse. let's take a look at the details...CA v.s Spells1. damage and modifierright now, in live server, all our spells are spells ( <span>:smileysad:</span> ). meaning exactly they are hostile spells. as a spell, your spell damage modifier will be intell. that means you got 8 more intells, your spell damage will be increased about 1% damage under 510. for the new dof CAs.. they are combat ability, which means your damage modifier will be strangth instead of your intell. are you ready for this? <span>:smileytongue:</span> so... after you get your new AAs, you will see these new AAs damage will be much worse than your old school spell damages. this is the reason......2. Crit chanceAs a CA, they are melee attack. which means you can crit on the mob 100% if you get the melee crits aa. the only difference is about the damage type. for example, the flame line, it will crit for sure, the damage type will be heat damage. they count as melee heat damage. the old school spells, they are 30% ( 28% from AA + 2% from MoA ).3. Resistabilitythe new EoF is a new world. the world brings new rules, new world order. let's talk about Resistability. from the pic that I listed you can see the CA resistability is 9% actually it is not. i've never seen any CA purried, or rippled or missed... I think it will 100% land on the mob. your spells might get resist a lot if the encounter is yellow con or orange con. <div></div>4. RangeAll the CAs, you have to cast it at melee range which is 5. all the spells range is 30 I think??5. Cast timeall the CAs cast time is about 0.5 seconds ( no spell haste AA ) they are super fast compare to the spells. all the spells are about 1.75 seconds. 6. Recast timeall the CAs has longer recast timer.7. Power costCA power cost > than spell power cost8. procsThis will come to the major point. why, how come the new AA is worse than the old school. all the new EoF abilities, they are CA which means combat ability. they are not hostile spells. your bone-clasp girdle, broodwater, any proc items will NOT proc at all. you have to reitemize all your gears. your damage and dps can be super low like 200 or 300...1 thing I think I should let your people know, don't except your melee damage will be that high in EoF ( even with 45 crushing from bettle priest ) 1/4 of your melee attack will " MISS " on a yellow con mob, I am saying miss not parry no ripple i am saying miss ( I hit the mob from the back ). the number is from 121 mb logs. you use it, you got [Removed for Content]... that's the reason I said the new eof damage AAs is way worse than you think...P.S: I am sure it won't last for long. Devs are work on it... enjoy your new AAs<p>Message Edited by Demoniac on <span class="date_text">11-04-2006</span> <span class="time_text">05:17 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Demoniac on <span class=date_text>11-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:25 AM</span>

[Demoniac]

oh.. I forgot this....<img src="http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/5217/inquisitorgb7.jpg"><div></div>

[Einsteinb]

You mentioned the importance of attributes in your OP. Could we recieve some clarification on how those are affecting the spell damage numbers vs the melee damage numbers? (I.E. Are you pushing int or str, or simply in 'balanced' gear?)

[Demoniac]

<P>no. sir.. my str is about 190.. my intell is about 360.. so it's no balanced...</P> <P> </P> <P>New patch new Screenshot :  ) this is the new one, the damage is imprved thanks for dev :smileywink:</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text><IMG src="http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/3641/inquisitor1pf6.jpg"></SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Demoniac on <span class=date_text>11-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:57 AM</span>

[dave143256384]

<DIV>am i the only one whose happy about this change? my str when soloing for example is 420 odd. and im always up close and personal, even in groups and sometimes raids. these skills looks awsome and combined with the current aa lines will increase my hitting power no end, i gave up on int long ago as too wussey for my character</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>im loving the looks of these.</DIV>

[ericshaitan]

<blockquote><hr>dave143256384 wrote:<div>am i the only one whose happy about this change? my str when soloing for example is 420 odd. and im always up close and personal, even in groups and sometimes raids. these skills looks awsome and combined with the current aa lines will increase my hitting power no end, i gave up on int long ago as too wussey for my character</div> <div> </div> <div>im loving the looks of these.</div><hr></blockquote>You are the type of person SOE is selling this to, nothing wrong with that its just that most of us that are "hard core" players couldn't give a rats furry rump about us DPSing.  Our role in a raid environment, and im not talking about killing trash mobs, is a healer/debuffer, plain and simple.  I want to see you go up and start busting Melee attacks on Chel'Drak..... That will be fun.<div></div>

[dave143256384]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ericshaitan wrote:You are the type of person SOE is selling this to, nothing wrong with that its just that most of us that are "hard core" players couldn't give a rats furry rump about us DPSing.  Our role in a raid environment, and im not talking about killing trash mobs, is a healer/debuffer, plain and simple.  I want to see you go up and start busting Melee attacks on Chel'Drak..... That will be fun.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>dont get me wrong when we raid i stay back, im not a casual player i log my fair share of unhealthy hours and raid as much as i can in my guild, how ever in groups and soloing, where the zones are handlable by a single healer in even average gear/skills, i find the dps side most suefull to add to my enjoyment. no i dont run up to tarinax and say hi, nor vymn nor any of the raid bosses.</P> <P>its not a matter of hard core or casual, i consider my hours fairly hardcore, its a play style choice. and to be honest any healers raw healing power will never be truely dependant on AAs, but a combo of gear and skills and the players skill as well as AAs.</P> <P> </P> <P>if what the OP said in another thread happened, and we got a taunt (lol) wed be perfect. a class in plate that can heal and put out some ok dps. itll never happen nor should it, but ill take all the damage we can take. and our healing kicks [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] already.<BR></P>

[quasigenx]

<div></div>My guild runs with a lot of healers, as many as 8-10 on raids. As such, I'm often just debuffing and then DPSing. I went full DPS with KoS, and I'll do it again with EoF. Right now, I'm pulling about 300 DPS zone average, but up to 700 DPS in particular encounters. We're not uber by an means, even our T1 DPS rarely tops 1000 DPS. Inquisitors are extremely versitile. Someone in another thread is complaining that we don't do anything better than another class. That may be true, but that could be said of many classes, if you're talking about strictly DPS, Healing or buffing potency. Our strength is the combination of the three.If you were to power-rank all the classes, by quantifying and adding up DPS, healing and buffing, I think we would come out close to the top.Having said all that, I think there should be one AA line that focuses on buffs or healing. Make us choose between playing a dps cleric or a healing cleric. Right now, we have no choice.<div></div><p>Message Edited by quasigenx on <span class=date_text>11-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:55 PM</span>

[Torbas]

I don't understand the point the original poster (Demoniac) is attempting to make.  Her argument seems to be that the new battle priest abilities are worse dps than spells.. And yet he/she readily acknowledges that melee crits for clerics can be maxed via AA's, where as the spells don't top 30% crit even with MoA.  The damage modifier argument is biased, as with my current battle-priest setup I easily top 500 str. while maintaining solid wisdom.  Also, she makes the argument that CA's are unresistable (Which they aren't) and then goes on to assert that this makes them -worse- than spells?  [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?  Recast time is less of an issue due to the ability to run Fana. while using the CA's (something you can't do with spells) which serves the dual purpose of decreasing reuse time and increasing melee dps in between swings.  The spell range argument is bankrupt, since the only time we need range is in PVP, which represents a very small (and very vocal) segment of the game population, or during a ranged DPS fight on a raid (where we shouldn't be DPSing anyway).  She also makes the idiotic argument that the loss of spell procs will be a huge blow against our dps., when in actuality I regularly parse far higher running fana/yaulp and meleeing with the vyemm hammer than i could ever dream of doing chaining flames/torment.  She also compares what looks like the 3rd rank combat arts with mostly adept 3 and M1 spells, and notes with all the incredulity of a blind penguin that the spells are far, far l33ter... Nevermind that she goes on to make another post comparing adept 1's to adept 1's and claiming that the devs changed the CA's to make them better..  Finally, she notes that the changes to Fana. are such that she "would never use it again" nevermind that you can still toggle it on and off till the cows come home.Ugh.<div></div>

[Demoniac]

well, you guys missed a very very important message.for myself i don't against dps healer at all... I've done 1395 dps on a single target ( eyeball in lyceum ) before.. my solo dps is about 550.. i almost got every single piece of plate fable gear that i can use ( cept hurricanus windforge bp and bracer that kinna stuff.. windforge boots? check.. windfroge legging? check.. ) i know how the dps things work. trust me...the message i was trying to deliver right here.. this is about to compare melee dps and range dps. there are a few issues you have to take a look. 1. melee damage.by melee damage, I am talking about autoattack. it's totally different situation in live server and beta server. in live server, I can do 650 dps just by auto attack. same weapon, same gear, no actually no.. in beta i switched a lot of melee proc gear, my str is 300 higher than live server, I can't even hit 325 which is 50% of live melee dps...what's the problem? you will miss A LOT even you hit the mob from the back, even you add 45 crushing from bettle priest. 25% of your auto attack will miss. I am not taling about parry and ripple.. i am talking about hit the mob from the back... 2. dps difference...it's not like what you think it's about 90 v.s 100... I can do 700 melee dps with all CA proc gear, with all str gear. that's highest number ( single raid target )... after i swiched to spell damage gear with proc.. I did 2399 on single target ( single target ). I don't wanna make you disappointed.. it's more like to compare a wizard and a templar who's doing better dps... even a monkey can tell what's the difference...what i am saying here is.. they didn't balance the melee and spell dps well... which side gets higher dps, i will go that side. for now, Nov. 7... spell dps is way greater than CA dps...don't believe it?? say invocation strike 389-486 damage spell dps is ( 389 + 486 )/ 2  / ( 0.5 + 10 ) = 41.67ruthless invocation 728 - 835 damagespell dps is ( 728 + 835 )/2 / ( 3 + 2 ) = 156.3Now ok.. my gear sucks.. say boost my str to 1000... and say double CA damage.  your CA damage 778 - 972....  dps double that's 82 v.s 156... ok.. not only my gear sucks.. but also my adornments sucks too... now tripple dps.. boost the CA to 1167 - 1458... that CA dps is 125.. which still lower than spell dps <span>:smileywink:</span>... it's no matter what you wear.. no matter what aa you got... spell dps will be always higher than CA dps. Dps = Damage per Second = ( max damage + min damage )/2/ ( spell cast timer + spell delay )I would so happy if someone can tell me I am wrong.<span>:smileyvery-happy:</span><div></div>

[Torbas]

I'm calling BS. Let's see some parses.<div></div>

[menelaus109]

Cant parse from Beta im afraid, the log files are different and ACT doesnt recognise them<div></div>

[Gobbwin]

<DIV>On the other AA thread, it was mentioned that w/ fanaticism running, these CAs would cost less power and be cast faster, is that true?  If so how much of a reduction are we talking about?  Perhaps it wasn't intended for us to be able to heal well while our haste buff was running, but we can still churn out some DPS (not that I agree w/ this line of thinking, but it seems to coencide w/ the direction the devs seem to be taking this class these days).</DIV>

[Demoniac]

<div><blockquote><hr>menelaus109 wrote:Cant parse from Beta im afraid, the log files are different and ACT doesnt recognise them<div></div><hr></blockquote>I think it works... at least for me.. this is a quick parser from lp that big [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] level 72 gargoyle.<img src="http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/8913/dpsoy5.jpg"></div>

[Torbas]

Umm... So is this a parse where you're chaining spells, or meleeing? Were you set up as a battle-priest, or as a nuker? What were your stats at the time of the parse? Were you running fana/yaulp, or neither? It doesn't reveal anything on its own, and either way your dps doesn't come close to the 2k+ you cited.  In order to have a valid argument, you need to compare parses with both of these setups (battle priest and nuker), on the same mob, averaged out over several fights.  Otherwise statistical variance will skew your results in such a way as to render them insignificant<div></div>

[Demoniac]

dude.. please "read" the post before you start another topic...it just a random parser that tells people the ACT works that's it in beta<div></div>

[Torbas]

/boggle<div></div>

[ericshaitan]

<blockquote><hr>Torbas wrote:/boggle<div></div><hr></blockquote>Man your [Removed for Content] WE TODD ED.  Not one of your posts has made any logical sense in this thread.  go back to WoW and play with your dollies.<div></div>

[menelaus109]

Thanks for the info Jina, i tried using ACT without joy at first, guess ill try again<div></div>

[Torbas]

<div></div>Nice personal assault.  My question is simple.  How can you assume that the dps you get from the battle line is valid when your character is specced for spell damage?  Inquisitors get more ways to increase their melee/CA crits and dps than they get enhancements to their spells.   I assumed I made this clear. Obviously, I was wrong.My roommate used to play WoW.  I always thought it was too cartoony.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Torbas on <span class=date_text>11-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:34 PM</span>

[Demoniac]

<div></div>I already explained it...and that will answer your question by details...but I think you didn't understand my post. you posted it. I am calling bs.You need to understand the concept of DPS. how does it work? it's not something new. DPS = ( max damage + min damage )  / 2      /   ( cast timer + recast timer )                    spell aveage damage                  /                       time                   = DPS that's the aveage dps you can hit. 0 lag, 0 lucky issue,<div></div><p>Message Edited by Demoniac on <span class=date_text>11-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:15 PM</span>

[Demoniac]

<div></div><div></div>and I don't think you get it... what's the difference between 1000 str and 200 str effect on the CA? say invocation let's compare the CA200   str = 125% base CA damage1000 str = 225% base CA damagewhat's base CA damage. that means how much damage you do at 0 str.  actually in this case I am wrong.. caz after your str hit 510, 8 str will NOT give you 1% CA base damage any more might 12 str or 16 str  = 1% or something like that.. it follows the same rules like between intell and spell damages.you actually need 2400 str to boost your ca damage to 1100+ CA damage ( if there is no cap ), and your invocation dps still lower than the 300 intell spell aveage dps..... and that will require every single slots add 100 str for you.this is the case I was trying to bring into the thread... see the point.... i don't against melee dps at all.. I never say I hate melee... i never say i won't go to melee lines... I pick up spell damages it becauses spells does more damages than CAs...Edit : I need to mention about melee damage as well.... see the parser i posted? 28 hits.. i missed 9 times.. even with 20% double attack, even with +45 more crushing ... what do you think about live server? <div></div><p>Message Edited by Demoniac on <span class=date_text>11-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:48 PM</span>

[Torbas]

<div></div>You're missing my point.  Your entire build is focused, apparently, on spell dps (you mentioned you had maxed spell crits).  Other aspects of one's build, totally apart from the new AA's, dramatically impact overall dps.  Do you realize that you can get nearly 100% melee crits from the stamina AA line?  And that these crits affect CA's? The reuse bonus of fanaticism, also, can trigger only when an ability is used while it is active.  Therefore, with m1 fana, you're going to see a 10% reuse speed bonus on all of your CAs. You don't factor this into any of your calculations.  The fact that, maxed, melee crits OVER 3 TIMES as much as maxed spells is reason enough to be skeptical about your points.I realize that melee attacks miss.  That's what they do.  However, CA's have an advantage over spells when it comes to swinging in melee.  Casting a spell resets the melee-swing timer.  It's a pain with a high-delay weapon.  Ask any good crusader.  CA's don't have this detriment, and their super-fast casting time means many more swings overall.Until I see a parse from a fully-melee specced inquisitor, or until I do my own parses when EoF goes live, I'm not going to throw out the possibility that the battle AA's are a valid alternative to spell-based dps.It's not a personal attack.  I'm just offering another side to the story.  I think the assertions you make don't take into account all available data.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Torbas on <span class=date_text>11-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:13 PM</span>

[Demoniac]

<div></div><div></div>well, what does it mean critical?? that means you do x 1.3 normal damage200 x 1.3 that's still < 700 damage right?? if you think 260 > 700.. man good luck..well quit post like this... I got both my melee 100% crits since kos release... that x 1.3 doesn't do anything... and you forgot spell crit chance is 30% as well..I am sorry, sir.. I am done with this.. good luck and enjoy your game<p>Message Edited by Demoniac on <span class=date_text>11-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:17 PM</span>

[Torbas]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>Okay, you got me.  Ruthless invocation is better than invocation strike.  I'm still never going to use either of them. They're crap.  Try comparing the worthwhile spells.  Recast on the DoT's makes the dps argument worthless, especially once you factor in Fana's effects..Once again, please look at all the evidence before making an assertion.  You're also forgetting casting times in your calculations.And I acknowledged the spell crit chance.English isn't your first language, is it?<div></div><p>Message Edited by Torbas on <span class="date_text">11-09-2006</span> <span class="time_text">05:17 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Torbas on <span class="date_text">11-09-2006</span> <span class="time_text">05:18 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Torbas on <span class=date_text>11-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:26 PM</span>

[Solar_Fla]

<P>I first want to state that although I love being able to tank/dps/heal better than most of the crappy players out there, i am slightly disappointed in our AA's. I really really think they look awesome as hell if I didn't raid like I do. Now had we recieved a line that would let us buff heals or something or our buffs or what not I would be really happy. I love the idea of being able to be super melee dps healer cause I do solo and help friends in groups quite often and I enjoy tanking T6 raids as well. These things will enhance that as a battle cleric. The thing I am concerned with is the other heals stealing our few claims to fame. Everyone can get an adornment now thats the same as chilling inquest and alot of healers get a heal component to cures and i think there is a adornment that lets ya heal with each heal spell. I could be wrong though but providing those are true that takes away 2 major class defining things for us cause we aren't super awesome healers from a design perspective ... (a good player makes the diffrence i know). </P> <P>I just think that even though we get some great group and solo abilities with the battle cleric line, it was a little too much specilization. I however do think your mad when you say that spell dps on an inquisitor is superoir to melee dps. I would challenge you any day of the week with my melee build and beat you on the parse every time. The fact these are getting turned into combat arts is amazing because you don't have to waste 2 seconds to land your dot you spend less than a second and with an inquisitor with 100% haste 90% dps 100% crit 40% proc for damage and interupt ... the less time spent casting spells the better. I don't want to say your wrong because I haven't fully tested things in beta yet. I have experimented a bit but I haven't seen my dps much lower. And with my melee dps setup I hit consistent 1k parses. I really doubt my dps is gonna go much lower now that i can cast my "spells"/ CA's in less than half the time. I think my dps will actually increase just going strictly by the numbers. If I end up missing 25% of all melee attacks then that will be something across the board. It won't just be inquisitors so parse averages are gonna go down anyway. The things ya mentioned don't just affect inquisitors. Dps might on a whole go down for everyone not just us awesome inquisitors. So i am not too worried about it. I will test it more thoroughly now but I think being able to keep fanaticism on ALL the time and being able to do .5 second casts of CA's through it to be absolutly godly. I think inquisitors will have more dps than any plate class there is..... and ya know what? thats an accomplishment in my book. Even if we are lowely healers.</P>

[Israphil]

<div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Solar_Flare wrote:<div></div> <p>I first want to state that although I love being able to tank/dps/heal better than most of the crappy players out there, i am slightly disappointed in our AA's. I really really think they look awesome as hell if I didn't raid like I do. Now had we recieved a line that would let us buff heals or something or our buffs or what not I would be really happy. I love the idea of being able to be super melee dps healer cause I do solo and help friends in groups quite often and I enjoy tanking T6 raids as well. These things will enhance that as a battle cleric. <font color="#ff0000">The thing I am concerned with is the other heals stealing our few claims to fame. Everyone can get an adornment now thats the same as chilling inquest and alot of healers get a heal component to cures and i think there is a adornment that lets ya heal with each heal spell. I could be wrong though but providing those are true that takes away 2 major class defining things for us cause we aren't super awesome healers from a design perspective</font> ... (a good player makes the diffrence i know). </p> <p>I just think that even though we get some great group and solo abilities with the battle cleric line, it was a little too much specilization. I however do think your mad when you say that spell dps on an inquisitor is superoir to melee dps. I would challenge you any day of the week with my melee build and beat you on the parse every time. The fact these are getting turned into combat arts is amazing because you don't have to waste 2 seconds to land your dot you spend less than a second and with an inquisitor with 100% haste 90% dps 100% crit 40% proc for damage and interupt ... the less time spent casting spells the better. I don't want to say your wrong because I haven't fully tested things in beta yet. I have experimented a bit but I haven't seen my dps much lower. And with my melee dps setup I hit consistent 1k parses. I really doubt my dps is gonna go much lower now that i can cast my "spells"/ CA's in less than half the time. I think my dps will actually increase just going strictly by the numbers. If I end up missing 25% of all melee attacks then that will be something across the board. It won't just be inquisitors so parse averages are gonna go down anyway. The things ya mentioned don't just affect inquisitors. Dps might on a whole go down for everyone not just us awesome inquisitors. So i am not too worried about it. I will test it more thoroughly now but I think being able to keep fanaticism on ALL the time and being able to do .5 second casts of CA's through it to be absolutly godly. I think inquisitors will have more dps than any plate class there is..... and ya know what? thats an accomplishment in my book. Even if we are lowely healers.</p><hr></blockquote>I couldn't agree with you more in your post. However, my feelings about the two highlighted sections are as follows:1. Other healers can get a weaker version of chilling inquest, which may appear to infringe on our class abilities, as does the new innoruk cloak. But not only can Chilling Inquest be cast on someone else, who will bring better proc rate than we would produce, but we get access to the same items, so this will give us Chilling Inquest, the augment that is a reduced chilling inquest, and the cloak which is yet another chilling inquest (should we use it over a tailored one with +20 to all healing spells, or something else). I still think we come out ahead. That's the best part about these augments; since everyone can get em, even if the abilities mimick class abilities of one class, that class simply has gained double that ability, which means we are still ahead of the pack. 2. The augment that heals on any cast is only 1.8ppm, which is assuming nonstop casting....so it sounds to me like it's basically an extra mystical healer orb proc, which is definately no threat to Convert.</div><p>Message Edited by rckmer on <span class=date_text>11-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:11 PM</span>

[Solar_Fla]

<DIV>I hear ya on the adornments, my concern is everyone can run around with full power instead of it being one of our neat abilities. I think other classes should all get unique things but to turn every ability into something ya can put on armor just i dunno seems to dilude the unique ability list. Don't get me wrong either, I don't mind sharing my abilities with other classes but soon enough there will be no classes. In a year or 2 everyone will have aa's that let them do everything they need and want to do. All classes will "look" diffrent but in the end they will all be the same. Soon enough I am guessing warriors will start to get heals, paladins will have evac, and wizards will get a buff that gives them the same mitigation as a tank. There will be no real class diffrence. Thats my concern. I like how they are taking it gradually but just curious where it will stop. All in all though I am gonna take what they gave us and exploit the hell out of being able to out dps people on raids. I just hope the new combat changes don't screw us over too badly. It could be quite disaterous. To be honest I think they should do the combat changes before EoF otherwise they gonna have a big big storm of people going crazy and instead of 1 thing they got 2 to worry about when it goes live. I am very curious to see how it all pans out. We might just become gods.... or we might become so diluded we are only second best to every other class (except paladins... they are inferior to inquisitors no matter what happens heh).</DIV>

[Spider]

<P>simple and plain i wanna see numbers i want someone to show me damage comparisons with = str and int </P> <P>and = spell lvls i.e. adept1 and adept 1  not ap 4 v master 1 with a 2-300 differance in int and str </P> <P>then well be able to see a REAL differance</P> <P>also for the point of disscussion to those that have mentioned crit % rember this with critical hits the MAX weapon damage is the MINIMUM you will hit for  and rolls under max amage are rounded up to max so if ur weapon is 50-100  with a crit of 100% u will always hit for  a min of 100 </P>

[Rvaryen]

<DIV>I AM NOT A R [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>South Park wow 4tw imo irl and ig.</DIV>

[Taziir]

<div>Umm, thanks for that?</div>