Reverse DS's And mit debuff

[pootski]

Couple questions..  Are our 2 reverse DS's, Compelled Repentance and Fanatical Vengence usefull in a raid?  On trash?  Named?Just want to know if they are worth casting during fights.Also, somewhat confused about the description for Convict.  Says lowers all mitigation.  Does that mean only melee attacks?I generally just cycle thru the 6 debuffs at the start of every fight, and am wondering if I am just wasting my time.  In regular groups, mobs die so fast I dont bother using them anymore, so don't have a lot of experience on how well they work.  I betrayed at 55 from a templar, so didn't grow up with them.<div></div>

[graxnip]

<div></div>honestly I believe that you just need to play it by ear.In the grps that kill incredibly fast and the avg mob level to the tank is white or lower then i dont bother with most debuffs.If i am in a high melee dps based group i usually always cast the mitigation debuff, then toggle zealorty and start whacking on the mob with yaulp on.If we are taking on a yellow or higher named i cast the forced debuff as well as the strength debuff then focus on healswhen I have been in raids against the harder opponents i heal and throw out all my debuffs since my dmg wont make any difference whatso ever - of course keeping zealorty up for the scouts when possible.- I cant speak much on the raiding topic as my guild just [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s around and only consists of 5 people )if I am in a duo or trio and fighting even con or higher heroic mobs especially named i throw out all my debuffs to make life easier on the sk that i group with. In that same duo fighting blue heroics or nonheroic stuff - i just go dps since the sk has a self ward.just gotta gauge your environment and go from there.as i group with a coercer i rarely cast repentance as he tries to keep the mob from casting CA's, however i throw out vengeance whenever it is down assuming im not urgently healing.<div></div><p>Message Edited by graxnip on <span class=date_text>09-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:43 PM</span>

[menelaus109]

Personally the only debuff i use is Forced Obeidience on raids, i rarely bother with Debase and Convict If ive just triggered Divine Recovery ill throw them out for the hell of it or if there isnt much healing to be done and im out of melee range Its the same with the DD and reverse damage shield spells, ill throw them out if ive got nothing better to do, however most of the time i can do more good by switching Zealotry on Some experienced raiding Inqs swear by Convict as it is easy to maintain and costs relatively little power, i personally dont think it makes a big difference (and its very difficult to parse the effects) In groups i wont bother with any of the debuffs and only rarely with the damage spells, i would rather be healing or thwacking things<div></div>

[jago quicksilver]

as far as the reverse DS, i dont find much use for em, if i have time to cast those, it could be much better spent running fanaticism.as far as all other debuffs, i maintain them 24/7 on named, and usually just throw up convict on trash mobs, not much time to do anything else really.

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jago quicksilver wrote:<BR>as far as the reverse DS, i dont find much use for em, if i have time to cast those, it could be much better spent running fanaticism.<BR><BR>as far as all other debuffs, i maintain them 24/7 on named, and usually just throw up convict on trash mobs, not much time to do anything else really.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>that might or might not be the case on a pve server but i can say for fact that they are GODLIKE on a pvp server </P> <P>especialy against scouts </P> <P>throw up reactive , toss both reverse ds  and hitthe atuo attack and occasional invoc /litany  and other debufs and watch the scout kill them selves FAST </P>

[jago quicksilver]

yeah, i was talking in strictly a raiding situation.in PvP, the reverse DS spells would be godly, especially heresy, totally own any healer <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kleitos]

In a raid I use as many debuffs/DoTs/DSs as I can, every little bit helps.Some examples:The Drakota in labs are excellent candidates for Compelled Repentance, make sure you raise your INT and it easily does 1k damage... and it does it while you are stifled from speeding up your scouts.Convict may only decrease all resists by ~600, but add Absolving Flames, 1k divine and Affliction for 1k mental comes to about 1.5k divine and mental.Since we are raiding here your Brigand uses dispatch, so add another 3k debuff...So just between us and Brigands dispatch we have debuffed Divine and Mental by 4.5k and all other by 3.5k.Since Compelled Repentance and Fanatical Vengence both do divine damage, debuffing divine is not a bad idea.Only reason that I would not debuff and DoT is when I run low on power and need to heal. Chilling Inquest + Brigand takes care of that problem though...But everyone plays their Inquisitor differently <span>:smileywink:</span>BTW, anyone have any solid numbers on how much Fanaticsm increase DPS?<div></div>

[jago quicksilver]

well, of course the amount of fanaticism can add to any class is restricted by your group make up, and what other temporary buffs or procs are currently running (agitate,berserk proc, haste from an illusionist), but it can easily up DPS of any particular person by 1-200 when timed right.

[Bayler_x]

<div><blockquote><hr>jago quicksilver wrote:yeah, i was talking in strictly a raiding situation.in PvP, the reverse DS spells would be godly, especially heresy, totally own any healer <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr></blockquote>Heresy is definitely a big advantage in PVP fights against healers, but it doesn't decide the fight by itself.  Keep in mind that healers can cure Heresy, like any other bad effect.  Also, on the PVP servers, falling victim to control effects (like stun) grants you an immunity for a short time after; so while the first activation of Heresy may knock them down and do damage, the second and third might not.  (I'm not sure if the damage is still applied even if the stun isn't.)  And don't forget that druids will be trying to heal with regens: they're probably healing from spells they already cast.So to make Heresy work in one-on-one PVP, you need to: 1) Make sure you keep it up all the time; 2) Make sure there are other spells on them that they'll have to dispell first; 3) Do enough damage fast enough that they're forced to heal/cure/buff themselves; 4) Deal with all the nasty tricks they're throwing your way (ring of fire HURTS); 5) ration your power usage against your oponent's; 6) Make sure that your allies arrive before his do; and 7) Change the channel on the TV every half hour.Healer versus healer solo fights are pretty rare on the pvp servers.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Israphil]

I run forced obedience, convict, scourge, absolving flames, and occasionally debase. They are all fantastic debuff spells. I use vengeance fairly often on trash, and repentance very rarely. Typically the vengeance and repentance are rarely used except when full on power and/or exceedingly bored. <div></div>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bayler_xev wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jago quicksilver wrote:<BR>yeah, i was talking in strictly a raiding situation.<BR><BR>in PvP, the reverse DS spells would be godly, especially heresy, totally own any healer <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Heresy is definitely a big advantage in PVP fights against healers, but it doesn't decide the fight by itself.  Keep in mind that healers can cure Heresy, like any other bad effect.  Also, on the PVP servers, falling victim to control effects (like stun) grants you an immunity for a short time after; so while the first activation of Heresy may knock them down and do damage, the second and third might not.  (I'm not sure if the damage is still applied even if the stun isn't.)  And don't forget that druids will be trying to heal with regens: they're probably healing from spells they already cast.<BR><BR>So to make Heresy work in one-on-one PVP, you need to: 1) Make sure you keep it up all the time; 2) Make sure there are other spells on them that they'll have to dispell first; 3) Do enough damage fast enough that they're forced to heal/cure/buff themselves; 4) Deal with all the nasty tricks they're throwing your way (ring of fire HURTS); 5) ration your power usage against your oponent's; 6) Make sure that your allies arrive before his do; and 7) Change the channel on the TV every half hour.<BR><BR>Healer versus healer solo fights are pretty rare on the pvp servers.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>most healers dont bother with curing in a pvp encounter unles sits like a brig debuff or a major dodt simply because there isnt time and it uses WAY to much power

[MokiCh]

On a raid I wouldn't bother with Fanatical Vengeance or Compelled Repentance. It's not your job to do damage on a raid. However, I did use Convict a lot in raids because I had a master 1 of it and it's a cheap spell to cast and sticks a long time. Since we dont really have as many power issues on a raid provided we have someone to put Chilling Inquest on, the little power it takes to cast is negligible, and 600ish debuff towards all resists (it's a magic resist debuff, dont think it does melee) is nothing to scoff at since you can stick it on and then forget about it for around 50-60 seconds. <div></div>

[Spider]

<P>hahah i got a chance to 1v1 with a yellow ranger the other day </P> <P>started the fight by putting up my group  reactive then hit him with the 2 reveres ds and watched him take him self down to orange in 3 -5 seconds  :smileyvery-happy:</P>

[Legend2u2]

Rading I usally only toss up compelled repentance and convict. Since I am usally in the dps group I will just trigger skull crack (maxed out it rocks as a debuff) and fanaticism (with yalup up of course). Since I maxed out the interrupt proccing aspect of the same line I am interrupting even epics about once every 4 secs. If you have not tried this on raids, ya should, it eats up mobs like Gnillaw and other epics that relie alot upon casting for their dps and healing.

[Legend2u2]

Bleh, typing on a mac at work, forgive all the spelling errors above.

[Shailen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bayler_xev wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jago quicksilver wrote:<BR>yeah, i was talking in strictly a raiding situation.<BR><BR>in PvP, the reverse DS spells would be godly, especially heresy, totally own any healer <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Heresy is definitely a big advantage in PVP fights against healers, but it doesn't decide the fight by itself.  Keep in mind that healers can cure Heresy, like any other bad effect.  Also, on the PVP servers, falling victim to control effects (like stun) grants you an immunity for a short time after; so while the first activation of Heresy may knock them down and do damage, the second and third might not.  (I'm not sure if the damage is still applied even if the stun isn't.)  And don't forget that druids will be trying to heal with regens: they're probably healing from spells they already cast.<BR><BR>So to make Heresy work in one-on-one PVP, you need to: 1) Make sure you keep it up all the time; 2) Make sure there are other spells on them that they'll have to dispell first; 3) Do enough damage fast enough that they're forced to heal/cure/buff themselves; 4) Deal with all the nasty tricks they're throwing your way (ring of fire HURTS); 5) ration your power usage against your oponent's; 6) Make sure that your allies arrive before his do; and 7) Change the channel on the TV every half hour.<BR><BR>Healer versus healer solo fights are pretty rare on the pvp servers.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>most healers dont bother with curing in a pvp encounter unles sits like a brig debuff or a major dodt simply because there isnt time and it uses WAY to much power<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Thats a good way to get killed.  I always cure if I can.  Most fights its not really needed, but remember you can cure off things like swarm pets.  Against a summoner, sorcerer, you negate HUGE amounts of their DPS, and those spells have very long cast timers.</P> <P>As for debuffs, Convict, Debase and Obedience are ALL huge, you should definately be keeping them up.  As for the DS's.  I usually only throw them when we're trying to all out DPS a mob.  They up my DPS a little, but thats not really my job on a raid.  I usually have to heal and debuff.</P> <P>On the heresy question.  The stun affect portion doesn't affect the damage and knockback.  If a person keeps casting beneficial spells they will keep getting knocked back and damaged.  At master 1 I find its nice just because it slows down an opposing healers heals, forcing them to burn more power and adding a little to my DPS.  By no means does it equate to an "I win" button against a healer that knows what they are doing.  simply because they heals they cast still land, they just take some damage as a result.  Their heals SHOULD be larger than the amount of damage heresy does.</P>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shailen wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bayler_xev wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jago quicksilver wrote:<BR>yeah, i was talking in strictly a raiding situation.<BR><BR>in PvP, the reverse DS spells would be godly, especially heresy, totally own any healer <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Heresy is definitely a big advantage in PVP fights against healers, but it doesn't decide the fight by itself.  Keep in mind that healers can cure Heresy, like any other bad effect.  Also, on the PVP servers, falling victim to control effects (like stun) grants you an immunity for a short time after; so while the first activation of Heresy may knock them down and do damage, the second and third might not.  (I'm not sure if the damage is still applied even if the stun isn't.)  And don't forget that druids will be trying to heal with regens: they're probably healing from spells they already cast.<BR><BR>So to make Heresy work in one-on-one PVP, you need to: 1) Make sure you keep it up all the time; 2) Make sure there are other spells on them that they'll have to dispell first; 3) Do enough damage fast enough that they're forced to heal/cure/buff themselves; 4) Deal with all the nasty tricks they're throwing your way (ring of fire HURTS); 5) ration your power usage against your oponent's; 6) Make sure that your allies arrive before his do; and 7) Change the channel on the TV every half hour.<BR><BR>Healer versus healer solo fights are pretty rare on the pvp servers.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>most healers dont bother with curing in a pvp encounter unles sits like a brig debuff or a major dodt simply because there isnt time and it uses WAY to much power<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Thats a good way to get killed.  I always cure if I can.  Most fights its not really needed, but remember you can cure off things like swarm pets.  Against a summoner, sorcerer, you negate HUGE amounts of their DPS, and those spells have very long cast timers.</P> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>swarm pets are a nusance but nothign more if i see someone cast them i hit my litany and they all die b4 they can accomplish anything  they have no hitpoints and ae instance one hit wonders with a single aoe  and since there damage is minimal per hit and they jsut add in a TON of small hits if u get your big reactive up first and they hti u a few times b4 litanty goes off u can accualy come out with full health lol</P><BR>