Verdict Rules

[Echar Elocin]

<DIV>got our first Tarinax kill with half dps dead mob ticks to 2% then falls over yeeee.   i <3 verdict</DIV>

[Demoniac]

<DIV>aye... a very good spell</DIV>

[Kadurm]

Aye, always a nice feeling when you see the mob get to 2% and you have verdict loaded and ready. Apparently verdict is now showing up on parcers as well. So maybe you can find out how much you hit for on those big epics.

[Metran]

<P>Hit Bonesnapper with it on Monday, our DPS was insanely low.  After 10 minutes of managing power, it felt great to hit him with the great hammer of doom.</P> <P>I don't believe it showed up on the parse.  I'll check to see if it did, or if my ACT needs to be udpated.</P> <P> </P>

[dave143256384]

<P>when exactly should you use it? how low are we talking? im gonna get it soon and it sounds awsome but i wanna make sure i get it right heh</P> <P> </P>

[ericshaitan]

Solo mob=right at 25% Heroic mob=right at 10% Epic mob=right at 2% Just like the spell says.  Just watch his HP and when he is at the target HP, burn his butt. <div></div>

[Adorya]

Also on heroic group if the mob difficulty is spread through several mobs, the % trigger can change (with a heroic group gathering several mobs -- and one ^^^ with his pet, hammer will hit at 25% for mobs --, 50% on pet if green and 10% on the ^^^ one).<div></div>

[pusj]

<DIV>Aye, great spell, although tried it monday and still didn't see it on the parser.</DIV>

[ericshaitan]

For all i have known it doesn't show up on the parser because it doesn't do damage.  It just makes the MOBs HP=1.  I doubt if it ever will show up on the parser. <div></div>

[Sphinx1975]

Tangential question. If you place your pointer over the enemies name it will show their health in percentage. Is there a way to always have a creatures health show up as a percentage point using the standard user-interface?  I think that would be much more useful than the standard health bar on the creatures when trying to use verdict.

[ericshaitan]

Using the standard innerface... Nope.  You can get just a another UI mod that will only effect your Target window so it will show the % of the mobs HP. <div></div>

[Kadurm]

<P>I'm using the standard default interface, and when the mobs health bar turns red, I just let my pointer rest on the target widow of the mob and watch the percentages drop to the required amount.</P> <P>WIll dbl check on that parser info I was talking about, I know someone was giving out numbers on one of our runs and was asking what the verdict was and who was casting it. Will find out which parcer they had and make sure I was hearing things correctly, </P>

[Gobbwin]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kadurm wrote:<BR> <P>...snip</P> <P>WIll dbl check on that parser info I was talking about, I know someone was giving out numbers on one of our runs and was asking what the verdict was and who was casting it. Will find out which parcer they had and make sure I was hearing things correctly, </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>That's awesome!  I'm curious as to how it affects both our DPS #s during a raid and also how it ranks in the highest hits.  Theoretically it would be the higest single hit for most raid mobs as there arent many, if any other spells that can knock out a mob's HP % like that in a single hit.<BR></DIV>

[ericshaitan]

Un fortuntaly it doesn't really do a lot of damage to the mob and normally wouldn't be the high hit.  Lets assume this.  An average raid mobs dies at about .5% per second.  This may be less, but lets run with it.  If this is true verdict takes 1.5seconds to "actually" go off.  that would leave the mob with 0.5% HP left when verdict actuall hits.  Now lets assume a 10K dps raid.  thats equivant to a 5000 point hit.  Not that much.  Even if we give the mob twice teh HP and say he dies at .25% a seconds that is still only a 10,000 poin hit. Only if the raid is dieing and you have no more DPS up and the mob just barely reached that 2% will you get the large hit for 40K+.  Which still isn't that much and most defintily not enough to log you high on the parser by itself alone.  Lets say it hits for 40,000 points of damage in a 4min fight, thats a 166dps........[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in a bucket. <div></div>

[Haldami]

You don't have to wait till the mob is at 2% to use verdict, it just has to be at 2% when the 1.5s pass.  I always hit verdict at 3% and when the 1.5s pass and the mob is at 3% it always goes off.<div></div>

[ericshaitan]

............. LOL your funny.  Get yourself a real UI.  For an Epic mob it must be at 2%.  The spell is cast instantly.  and upon the instant casting it checks "Is this mob at 2% or Less HP?"  If the answer is no, nothing happens and the spell is wasted, (no effect).  If yes, it waits 1.5seconds and sets the Mobs HP to 1HP.  This spell was designed so that you could not do what you say your magical computer from fairy land can do. <div></div>

[Shailen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ericshaitan wrote:<BR>Un fortuntaly it doesn't really do a lot of damage to the mob and normally wouldn't be the high hit.  Lets assume this.  An average raid mobs dies at about .5% per second.  This may be less, but lets run with it.  If this is true verdict takes 1.5seconds to "actually" go off.  that would leave the mob with 0.5% HP left when verdict actuall hits.  Now lets assume a 10K dps raid.  thats equivant to a 5000 point hit.  Not that much.  Even if we give the mob twice teh HP and say he dies at .25% a seconds that is still only a 10,000 poin hit. <BR><BR>Only if the raid is dieing and you have no more DPS up and the mob just barely reached that 2% will you get the large hit for 40K+.  Which still isn't that much and most defintily not enough to log you high on the parser by itself alone.  Lets say it hits for 40,000 points of damage in a 4min fight, thats a 166dps........[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in a bucket.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The other way to look at it is from parsed total HP.  The only mobs I've found this effective on are those raid mobs with REALLY high HP levels, like 3 million plus.  Assume a mob has 3 million HP, that makes 1% 30k HP.  These are the only fights where I see a raid going full out DPSing and the HP% still drops fairly slowly.</P> <P>Incidentally this is the only time I ever seem to actually have time for verdict to land before the mob is dead already.  I think our raid last night was doing about 12-13k DPS per fight, so on a mob with around 2 million HP, that plays out to about the same 0.5% health you mentioned after the 1.5 seconds (yes I'm rounding).</P> <P>The one place I really have found verdict useful is when my 70 guardian friend and I take a DPS with us to go grinding cash, names, etc.  It helps save time with the limited DPS.  Also helps me speed things up just a little bit while soloing writ mobs.</P>

[ericshaitan]

<blockquote><hr>Shailen wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> ericshaitan wrote:Un fortuntaly it doesn't really do a lot of damage to the mob and normally wouldn't be the high hit.  Lets assume this.  An average raid mobs dies at about .5% per second.  This may be less, but lets run with it.  If this is true verdict takes 1.5seconds to "actually" go off.  that would leave the mob with 0.5% HP left when verdict actuall hits.  Now lets assume a 10K dps raid.  thats equivant to a 5000 point hit.  Not that much.  Even if we give the mob twice teh HP and say he dies at .25% a seconds that is still only a 10,000 poin hit. Only if the raid is dieing and you have no more DPS up and the mob just barely reached that 2% will you get the large hit for 40K+.  Which still isn't that much and most defintily not enough to log you high on the parser by itself alone.  Lets say it hits for 40,000 points of damage in a 4min fight, thats a 166dps........[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in a bucket. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>The other way to look at it is from parsed total HP.  The only mobs I've found this effective on are those raid mobs with REALLY high HP levels, like 3 million plus.  Assume a mob has 3 million HP, that makes 1% 30k HP.  These are the only fights where I see a raid going full out DPSing and the HP% still drops fairly slowly.</p> <p>Incidentally this is the only time I ever seem to actually have time for verdict to land before the mob is dead already.  I think our raid last night was doing about 12-13k DPS per fight, so on a mob with around 2 million HP, that plays out to about the same 0.5% health you mentioned after the 1.5 seconds (yes I'm rounding).</p> <p>The one place I really have found verdict useful is when my 70 guardian friend and I take a DPS with us to go grinding cash, names, etc.  It helps save time with the limited DPS.  Also helps me speed things up just a little bit while soloing writ mobs.</p><hr></blockquote>Very good post, that is the time verdict is the best.  When you and your buddy go solo named in PoA, 10% then is about 30seconds of fighting.<div></div>

[ChaosUndivided]

<P>I love Verdict as witnessed by my Hotbars:</P> <P><IMG src="http://www.secondawn.com/images/upload/ui1.jpg"></P>

[Gobbwin]

<DIV>I used it for the first time on a raid mob the other night in a not so ideal situation, but it saved the raid.  Mob killed the MT at 35% health.  Then it killed a random DPS or two until the Secondary tank took over and held for about 25%, then he died.  Now the mob around 10% health (with adds), but it was chewing through our raid quickly.  Realizing that they were about to die, our DPS opened up with everything they had as they were picked off, it's health was going down but very slowly (took about 20 seconds to go 7%).  With more than half of the raid dead (some were rezed only to die almost immediately), the mob's health was hovering at 3% (I had fired off my de-aggro spell already, which was the only reason I was still alive).  We finally managed to get it another percent as it wiped out another group, I fired off Verdict and the named was dead a second or two later.  By this time the MT was back up on his feet, w/ a few buffs.  He grabbed the adds while another healer and I kept him up long enough for more to be rezed to finish the fight.  The irony is that no one noticed the mob suddenly losing 2% and dying, but I know what I did and that's enough for me.</DIV>

[Shailen]

<div><blockquote><hr>Gobbwin wrote:<div></div> <div>I used it for the first time on a raid mob the other night in a not so ideal situation, but it saved the raid.  Mob killed the MT at 35% health.  Then it killed a random DPS or two until the Secondary tank took over and held for about 25%, then he died.  Now the mob around 10% health (with adds), but it was chewing through our raid quickly.  Realizing that they were about to die, our DPS opened up with everything they had as they were picked off, it's health was going down but very slowly (took about 20 seconds to go 7%).  With more than half of the raid dead (some were rezed only to die almost immediately), the mob's health was hovering at 3% (I had fired off my de-aggro spell already, which was the only reason I was still alive).  We finally managed to get it another percent as it wiped out another group, I fired off Verdict and the named was dead a second or two later.  By this time the MT was back up on his feet, w/ a few buffs.  He grabbed the adds while another healer and I kept him up long enough for more to be rezed to finish the fight.  The irony is that no one noticed the mob suddenly losing 2% and dying, but I know what I did and that's enough for me.</div><hr></blockquote>I've said this many times before.  This is the perfect spot for verdict, but how often does this actually happen?I don't know about anyone else, but I hate having the only ancient teaching out of all the classes that I only get to use effectively when everything is going WRONG, instead of right.  I mean look at those spells other classes get, sure they all are situational just like verdict.  But if you're doing a "propper" kill, or "regular" fighting in a group, this spell has no place, while spells like rift and fusion do.I'd love to have a spell that I can use maybe 5% or 10% of fights, that are going awesome, but I can still contribute in some way.  As it stands I seldom use this spell in any crustructive way.  The mobs still just die way to fast.  Over time as your guild/group progresses it will become more useless.Our raids over the last 3-4 weeks have added 2-3kDPS  through loot and spell upgrades.  Each point of DPS we gain, makes it less and less likely a verdict will ever actually do anything in a raid.</div>

[dave143256384]

<P>it does indeed rock</P> <P> </P> <P>was responsible for most of the death of named last night in PoA and HoF, best was the one named in HoF befire the doom lord. k something got our tank and other healer and another member it went to beat on the wizzy who was gonna get smashed, untill it hit 10% and then bang down it went.</P> <P>the palace adjunct (the green one) loved it too.</P> <P>wish it showed up on parsers </P>

[Sphinx1975]

I am finding that Verdict is great for when soloing or in a small group of two or three and against huge targets (such as Sothis in HoF).  However, on most other occasions the timing's too tricky and the HPs are falling to quickly to justify even trying it. On Sothis though it was amazing.  Health of nine percent dropped right down nothing. I don't think the group saw it happen but it was pretty cool to me.   If you combine this with the heretic doom on a mob you knock something to 1HP and your heretic doom burning spell hits almost immediately, too.  Double whammy and you get listed for the kill <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Jordinn]

I used to use this on raids and never get credit cause it never showed up in parses.  Then once we were on Elemental Warder, and things got a bit dicey near the end, so as half raid was dying to CoI I call out VERDICT on our voice system and the mobs dies.  From that day forwad our raid leader actually calls for verdict on tough fights against high HP mobs <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Duave]

I've said the raid a few times with Verdict.And by the way, it must be Fetish Nightfall because Verdict does land at 3%.<div></div>

[dave143256384]

<P>used it in a dual with a guildy the other night, i rooted him, and backed off, circled and he asked why id stopped?</P> <P>then he saw the gavel was a quality moment heh</P>

[Sokolov]

BONEMIRE, KINGDOM OF SKY -The arena stage was littered with bodies and the sounds of battle.  A handful of combatants struggled valiantly against the black dragon, Lord Vyemm.  It had been a long battle, and Vyemm was visibly hurt, but no less fearsome than he had been at full health.  One might say he actually looked more dangerous, the areas where his scales had been damaged revealing the torrent of magical energy that he contained within his body.The Shadowknight braced himself for the blow as Vyemm raised his head.  At the last second, Vyemm turned and shot a blast of magical energy, flattening three more casters.  Scrambling, the remaining armored warriors attempted to draw the dragon back to them.As raid members fell, so did Lord Vyemm's life.  A countdown began, the words echoing off the walls of the arena.  "Ten... nine..." "Eight..." Each count seemed to come slower than the last."Seven...""Six..." It was getting close.  Glances were made at the Inquisitor, who knew her role."Five...""Four..." Lord Vyemm, angry now, struck haphazardly all around him in a whirl, delivering mortal blows to several more."Three..." The Inquisitor falls.  Lord Vyemm would not feel the burn of Verdict today."Two..." The voice of a dead wizard's spirit coursed through the air, "Rez me!  I can kill him!"  But the healers were scrambling to keep the remaining members alive."One..." An eternity passed.  It felt as though it would never end.  And then suddenly, with little fanfare, Lord Vyemm collapsed onto the stadium seating.  The terror had been abdated, till next week.<div></div>

[ericshaitan]

But, but, but................. What about the loot?  And the Children? <div></div>

[Sokolov]

That's coming.I have a contract for the trilogy of Lord Vyemm.  The above was an excerpt from "The Death of Lord Vyemm."I will consider the titles, "The Loot of Lord Vyemm" and the "The Children of Lord Vyemm" for future titles.  Good ideas!<div></div>

[Shailen]

<div><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:That's coming.I have a contract for the trilogy of Lord Vyemm.  The above was an excerpt from "The Death of Lord Vyemm."I will consider the titles, "The Loot of Lord Vyemm" and the "The Children of Lord Vyemm" for future titles.  Good ideas!<div></div><hr></blockquote>Wo, we have the new mod on our side.  [Removed for Content]Again though, the one thing I really dislike about this spell is that the better the group of people you run with, the less and less you get to use it.  You get penalized for being a quality group/raid, by losing the use of a signature spell.I mean Sothis dies in something like 18 seconds with my regular grind group these days.  We have an assassin, brig and wiz who roll with us.  The 3 of them can do something like 40% damage to sothis with just 2 attacks and thugs.  The 10% is gone well before the 1.5 seconds.  Similar situation on many raids now.  Each week our DPS climbs and it gets harder and harder to squeeze this in.  Great if you can do the bit on grinllaw and DT mobs for sure, but no way I get one in on any of the lower T7 stuff anymore.</div>

[rollandheat]

I dont know how verdict worked in old days, but after EoF with great increase in DPS it does nothing even after enhancing it through AA. We parse 20k-25k avg dps on raids, so spike dmg is a bit higher, if we safe huge DD maybe 30k. Verdict will be nice to use in MMIS when we must take last 10% of mobs very quickly. 2% 70000HP, with avg dps 30k the mob drops another 45k HP before actual verdict which burns 25k (one crit fusion). I say it needs upgrade, remove the 1,5s delay or increase trigr to 3-4%. On other mobs it might work, mob with 8M HP, but most of these mobs dont need to be taken down that quick.

[caalus]

<p>The other day we were in LoA on one of the named mobs there.  I forget which one.  But when the mob hit 2% i verdicted him.  He then proceeded to heal himself to around 20% of his max health.  Then verdict triggered and brought the mob back down to 1hp.  HE DIED!! </p><p>Wish i had the parser on that one.........<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Spider]

<p>was in lycium ? the other day and we were on that guy that refills to 25 % </p><p>we had him don  he hit 2 % and the raid leader was like get redy  for 25 % and i hti verdit and BOOM dead </p><p>lol</p><p>i laughed as everyone went [Removed for Content]jsut happened  </p>

[rollandheat]

Well, LoA isnt that hard and in EoF mob heals around 10% of life, so not much use to verdict either. BtW you just got lucky a think, I verdicted named in MMIS with 2%, then he unleashed area and healed itself with no verdict trigered ... wipe <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Chanah]

<cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>was in lycium ? the other day and we were on that guy that refills to 25 % </p><p>we had him don  he hit 2 % and the raid leader was like get redy  for 25 % and i hti verdit and BOOM dead </p><p>lol</p><p>i laughed as everyone went [Removed for Content]jsut happened  </p></blockquote>Had the same thing once, but you have to time it perfectly, somewhere at 1%, and verdict gotta go "real" active the moment he heals up, if you do verdict to fast, he will reflect it, tried it about 50 times on him, only got that 25% of it 1 time with verdict, but real fun to hear ppls comments on vent.

[Avirodar]

Others summed up Verdict nicely.The guild I am a part of, has registered over 75,000 raid wide DPS on an encounter in FTH. Encounter parses of over 40,000 DPS are commonplace. So what does this mean for my Verdict?It means that 2% of a mobs hp would have to be over 60,000, for Verdict to even have a chance of taking effect on an encounter with an average DPS of 40k. That makes it a 3,000,001+HP mob. Last I checked, not many mobs actually pack that kind of HP.It is backward ability, no argument there. The better your group / guild / raid force, the more useless verdict is.  It is quite obvious by the "glory story tributes" of Verdict, who it appeals to the most at the current time.Verdict had some fair use in KOS (the expansion it was made for). Yet with EoF, mobs HP did not go up much, if at all, but the DPS raid forces can do, has increased a lot. Due to this, the use of Verdict became much more limited. I'd rather see Verdict have a 1 second countdown period (not 1.5), and trigger on 3% for epics. The Enhanced Verdict should trigger at 5% for epics (4.5% would be better, if possible, but otherwise, 5%). Who knows, people might actually find punishments a more viable option if that happened...

[Chanah]

Aye avi, verdict is close to useless with good raidsetup,  I see it more as a "fun" spell at the moment and im never going into lyceum again (fokking hate that place) so Its useless to me, and i've said that before, 5% on epics would own and would maybe make it usefull and indeed maybe even (still doubt it) usefull to go punishment line.But still if it would be 5% it means the raid is good enough to get it down 95%, so if they would still wipe the last 5%, they really sux, so it would still be a "fun" spell imo.....And yes I also have saved wiping raids to still being able to kill a mob but that just happened once or twice, and im raiding since the first days of EQ2.

[Catseyes]

it's Gnillaw the Demented who heal himself when almost dead. And yes, if verdict trigger before he's healed, when hammer fall, even at 25% health he comes back to 1 hp.  Happened to me . It saved raids sometimes, when you re on the wipe edge,  finishing the mob with few raiders,  leader  shouting to BURRNNNN , eveybody praying to kill before wipe, you look at  % , cast verdict and when the life slowly pass the thresold of 2% ,boom !! Verdict FTW ! I have enhanced verdict, and  it works fine. I can cast way before the thresold now, and it triggers very fast . dunno if that's enhance or ninja fix, but the hammer fall faster than before for me,it's almost instant. Yes, if the raid bring easily the mob to 2% they doesnt need you to verdict, but sometimes, when raid is wiping and the last hps are hard to put down, that little 2% is the edge between win and loose ...

[Avirodar]

Catseyes... You're saying that Enhanced Verdict:1) No longer waits for you to complete casting a spell in progress, to initiate the E:Verdict countdown if the mob passes under the threshold? (group heals/reactives really suck for that)2) Moving during the E:Verdict countdown, no longer cancels the countdown? (that really frustrated me when it it was interrupted)3) That use of fanaticism does not double the duration of the E:Verdict countdown?4) That for some reason, E:Verdict has a shorter activation countdown than normal verdict?You probably think E:Verdict has a shorter activation countdown, because you don't immediately notice the sequence initiating. If a raid has a habit of wiping at under 5% of a mobs health, the raid needs self control, not verdict.  Obviously it will sometimes get use, but the rare occasions it gets a good shot in, does not really make up for the sheer volume of occasions it is about useless, in my opinion.  Verdict was reasonable for KOS, but out of date in EOF.

[MullenSkywatcher]

<p>I have verdict envy!  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Best spell ever in Mistmoore Inner Sanctum.</p>

[Chanah]

<cite>MullenSkywatcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have verdict envy!  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></p><p>Best spell ever in Mistmoore Inner Sanctum.</p></blockquote>once you have cleared EH third floor several times in mis you will never need verdict in mis or you have real [Removed for Content] dps inr aid

[MullenSkywatcher]

<cite>Chanah@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>MullenSkywatcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have verdict envy!  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />"></p><p>Best spell ever in Mistmoore Inner Sanctum.</p></blockquote>once you have cleared EH third floor several times in mis you will never need verdict in mis or you have real [I cannot control my vocabulary] dps inr aid</blockquote>We don't need Verdict to clear EH or MMIS, I was just waving the pom-poms.  After you're level 80 in the first week in RoK, you probably won't need verdict to clear them either...  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Catseyes]

Trinral :i m using verdict since longtime, and got enhanced as soon it was possible.   I used it  and removed the AA when it was worse than ever.And after they added the 1,5 sec delay activation i was finding it very nerfed. spell casting, moving, CAs, were interrupted it. Now, once the mob pass the thresold, the effect is "almosts" instant. It's never interrupted whatever i do.  Of course, i try to not cast when it's close to coz cannot cast two things at time but while moving ? dunno , as it's taking less than 1 sec to strike, i never see the problem.I watch closely how it works, was feeding back during the worst period. And now i can say, yes , it works as intended .Under enhanced fanaticism ? gonna try , i m rarely using fana in raid as i throw heals and debuffs  and dont want them hindered by this spell. Once again, should i be under fana,i would cut it 2 or 3 sec during the thresold . Fana is so fast to recast, dont worth to let it run during essential spells.The 5 sec added by enhanced didnt work during longtime, but it works too, and that adds a nice cumfort to the spell. Yes your raid can do the little 2% easily, but do u have a spell who does 40 K hp dmg ? no heh . Do u dps for that in the few sec it takes to put mob from 2% to 1 hp ? i doubt . Verdict can and will do. You re adding 2 % life dmg on millions hps mobs to your raid, it's not worthless for me.