Why a Templar?

[da5idblacksun]

My main is a 62 Templar which I created when the game first came out.  I took a year off in there but I've been back for a few months. My question is:   what is special about a Templar?  If you had to re-roll now why would you choose a Templar?  From what I see, healing ability is about the same for all priest classes but other classes seem to get other abilities that make them special, or put another way, give you a specific reason why you'd choose them.  For example, Druids get speed buff, group invis, good DPS and portaling.  Why would someone choose to be a Templar?What sets a Templar apart?  When I created my main I didn't know much about the game and of course a lot has changed since then.  The reason I chose a Templar was because he could wear plate armor.  That was the extent to which I had information at the time to make the decision on which healer I would choose.  Now that I've invested many hours into this character and he is how I am known in the game I am starting to question if I like the class.I've thought all along that because we don't get anything special outside healing that perhaps we were the best healer but from what I've been reading that doesn't seem to be the case.I'm especially looking to hear from level 70 Templars and their experience in raiding and the end game and if they are satisfied with the class.  <div></div>

[SenorPhrog]

<DIV>Specifically raiding?  There are a lot of things we can do that other priests can't (not to knock the importance of any of them).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For starters, burst damage.  Stack reactives with wards and that is how raids should work.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our lotto abilities are more useful now for raiding as well.  Involuntary healer now procs AE raid wide which means everyone around the mob gets it's benefit.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Throw in our physical mit debuff with a Brigands dispatch, and you have a ton of extra damage being done.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sanctuary which provides immunity to fear, stifle, stun ,etc...very useful.  Divine Arbitration is great to cast on a MT pulling.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Out buffs provide great HP/Mitigation buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You also mentioned plate armor which is frequently overlooked.  You'll survive a lot longer in that plate armor than a druid will in leather.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Alot of it is personal preference really.  All priests classes have their uses in raids, so it's really up to what you want to do.  I'd say Templars are as valuable as anyone.  If you are really that disatisfied though, you might want to consider betraying to an Inquisitor which provides less in the way of HP/mit buffs but more in the way of DPS buffs and debuffs.</DIV>

[da5idblacksun]

<div></div>Raiding is one aspect. I'm talking about all aspects.  What sets a Templar apart?  I can see from your answer that we do have unique abilities in raid healing so if that was your goal then it's a good class to choose.  I didn't realize that involuntary healer was AE - that rocks.  I'm very close to 63 so I'll be getting this soon. Anything else that sets us apart from the other healing classes?<div></div><p>Message Edited by da5idblacksun on <span class=date_text>01-23-2007</span> <span class=time_text>11:54 AM</span>

[Calare]

<P>I started playing a Templar shortly after release (about 2 years ago) at the advice of my EQ addicted boyfriend.  By the time I was lv 50 I was tired of leveling and just decided to stick with the Templar through the next 20 levels as they came out.  I had established myself into a raiding guild and didn't really feel like leveling a second character.  I can't really speak about if I was going to start over what I would play as I don't want to start over.</P> <P>I did start to level a defiler on PVP server and didn't find a whole lot of difference between the two except that defilers can do a bit more in a fight.</P> <P>I can speak however to the raiding aspect of a templar.  Much like said previously, we have excellent buffs for tanks (increasing mitigation and hitpoints).  I can survive a lot of aggro bouncing with quick dehate fingers because of the plate armor I wear.  Spurn (the physical mitigation debuff) at Master level and with AA points can debuff 1400 mitigation vs all physical damage.  That's quite a bit. </P> <P>The down side is that we don't have the greatest DPS if AA's are speced for healing.  I've heard you can get ok dps numbers if you spec for such but I never have so I'm not sure.  I don't think I've ever parsed over 300 and that was not healing at all.  A lot of our "utility" spells are only useful outside of raids or on heroic mobs (stun/pacify/soothe) so we are limited in what we can cast/debuff/do on raids.</P> <P>Overall, I'm not unhappy with my Templar as a raider.  I find myself useful for raiding, however most guilds don't want more than 2 or 3 in a guild because their uses are spacific.  Anyway, I like my templar, I would probably make one again if I was starting over because thats what I'm familiar with but it's not horrible.  The game has changed a lot since release.  If you are interested in raiding, check out the guilds on your server and see if they are looking for Templars.  Otherwise play something you'd be really happy playing.</P> <P> </P> <P>Calare Nebra</P> <P>70 Templar</P> <P>Paragon</P> <P>Everfrost</P>

[Gagla]

<DIV>When I first created my templar it was because I liked the idea of a plate healer and I thought the name 'Templar' sounded cool. Soloing was alright until the mid teens, then groups came... and I got the impression that most tanks on my server were terrible. When a tank would lose a mob and it started beating on me, I was always happy I wore plate. Since I've hit 70, I've been oneshotted once. Pumpkin Headed Horseman hit me for 13K piercing through my 55% mit, so I don't feel too bad being oneshotted by a mob that's trying to hit me for almost 30K. However, I can think of plenty of times in a raid setting where a mob hits me into deep red and I'm happy I wear plate, because I've seen it happen to druids and they die.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since we've discussed Plate, I think I'll move onto healing and buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Reactives make plateclasses happy, but they're not ideal for anything else. Since in a raid you'll probably have a Berserker or a Guardian MT, that's perfectly fine. Buffwise, Tanks love Health and Stoneskin.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When not in MT group, buff choices become a bit more difficult. If there's any tank in the group buff him just incase, but I've had times where it's myself, a troubador, 2 wizards and 2 warlocks and it's like... i guess sorcerors like health buffs incase they pull agro maybe they'll survive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've sometimes felt that Templar spells cast very slowly, but with 8 points in casting speed it hasn't been a problem. My one regret is that when playing on a pvp server, not all classes are created equal. As a test one day I ran solo into the Mutagenic outcast and lasted longer against him than I do against brigands in pvp.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What makes a Templar special? Odyssey is an amazing ability, which in exile I now miss.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the end I guess I'm happy I chose to be a Templar.</DIV>

[SenorPhrog]

<DIV>From other aspects, physical mitigation debuff.  Master 1'd with AP's to increase it, there is nothing to scoff at there.   Sanctuary as I mentioned is invaluable in many situations.  Our focused intercession is one of the most powerful heals I know of.  It does stun you, but the heals are incredible.  An emergency spell called Faithful Salvation that can actually bring your tank back to life when he dies.  A 7 second stun. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I got tons of utility but most of it is sheer healing power.</DIV>

[da5idblacksun]

<div><blockquote><hr>Radar-X wrote:<div></div> <div>From other aspects, physical mitigation debuff.  Master 1'd with AP's to increase it, there is nothing to scoff at there.   Sanctuary as I mentioned is invaluable in many situations.  Our focused intercession is one of the most powerful heals I know of.  It does stun you, but the heals are incredible.  An emergency spell called Faithful Salvation that can actually bring your tank back to life when he dies.  A 7 second stun. </div> <div> </div> <div>I got tons of utility but most of it is sheer healing power.</div><hr></blockquote>We know we we're good healers but so are the other healer classes.  I've read the sticky here that SOE balanced the Preists in terms of healing power.  I'm not sure our healing power really sets us apart.But I think I'm getting my answer which is we are differentiated in the specifics of our healing style and not really in any other way.  I'm a bit dissapointed that Templars don't have a more balanced utility.  When I look at Druids I honestly get a bit jealous and have regrets that I chose the wrong class. I know from playing alts that have invis and run buffs how valuable those tools are.  </div>

[StevusX]

<P>I still have fun playing my Templar main but have to agree we could still use a bit more useful ability imo.</P> <P>We have NO  invis / run buff / escape / feign death / CotH / portals / tracking / safe fall / etc etc</P> <P>most of which are very useful soloing / grouping which is probably how most people spend their time....</P> <P>We DO have some nice buffs, plate armour, revives, Sanctuary, Odessey etc etc</P> <P>but nothing that necessarily makes us "stand out" particularly in soloing/grouping.</P> <P><STRONG>As healers we are very good imo - as utility still poor imo.</STRONG></P> <P>I also think, given how "dps" centric the combat is in the game a little more in that area is still required.</P>

[SenorPhrog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> da5idblacksun wrote: <DIV>We know we we're good healers but so are the other healer classes.  I've read the sticky here that SOE balanced the Preists in terms of healing power.  I'm not sure our healing power really sets us apart.<BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Ok well not sure means you don't know.  I know where my healing stands.  I'm not going to get in a [Removed for Content] match with other clases, but let's just say I'm very satisfied with how much healing I can do.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR>But I think I'm getting my answer which is we are differentiated in the specifics of our healing style and not really in any other way. <BR><BR>I'm a bit dissapointed that Templars don't have a more balanced utility.  When I look at Druids I honestly get a bit jealous and have regrets that I chose the wrong class. I know from playing alts that have invis and run buffs how valuable those tools are. <BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>If you are looking for fluff with a little sacrificed healing?  Druid is the way to go.  I don't need SoW because I have a horse.  I'll admit ports are useful.  What else do they have?  Group invis?  It's called a Totem.  They are tempting, but I'm not going to cut my mitigation by 2/3 for that stuff.  I'm not giving up sanctuary, and something as powerful as focused intercession for fluff.  Just my opinion. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[da5idblacksun]

<div><blockquote><hr>Radar-X wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <p></p> <hr> da5idblacksun wrote: <div>We know we we're good healers but so are the other healer classes.  I've read the sticky here that SOE balanced the Preists in terms of healing power.  I'm not sure our healing power really sets us apart.</div> <div><font color="#ff0000">Ok well not sure means you don't know.  I know where my healing stands.  I'm not going to get in a [Removed for Content] match with other clases, but let's just say I'm very satisfied with how much healing I can do.  </font></div> <div>But I think I'm getting my answer which is we are differentiated in the specifics of our healing style and not really in any other way. I'm a bit dissapointed that Templars don't have a more balanced utility.  When I look at Druids I honestly get a bit jealous and have regrets that I chose the wrong class. I know from playing alts that have invis and run buffs how valuable those tools are. </div> <div><font color="#ff0000">If you are looking for fluff with a little sacrificed healing?  Druid is the way to go.  I don't need SoW because I have a horse.  I'll admit ports are useful.  What else do they have?  Group invis?  It's called a Totem.  They are tempting, but I'm not going to cut my mitigation by 2/3 for that stuff.  I'm not giving up sanctuary, and something as powerful as focused intercession for fluff.  Just my opinion. </font></div> <div><font color="#ff0000"></font> </div> <div> <hr> </div></blockquote><hr></blockquote>It's not a [Removed for Content] match, it's a geniune inquiry.  If you feel Templars are better healers than then other classes then say so and that would make sense why we are so gimped in the utility and DPS departments.  I don't consider those utilities as fluff, especially if the healing ability is equal.</div>

[SenorPhrog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> da5idblacksun wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>It's not a [Removed for Content] match, it's a geniune inquiry.  If you feel Templars are better healers than then other classes then say so and that would make sense why we are so gimped in the utility and DPS departments.  I don't consider those utilities as fluff, especially if the healing ability is equal.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Any time you discuss "what is better" it's going to end up in a [Removed for Content] match, whether it should or not.  </P> <P>My personal opinion is Templars can outheal any other class.  We are not "gimped" in the DPS department.  There are entire threads in here on how to improve your DPS.  Hell Kendricke does more DPS than my level 66 Brigand.  I will admit I'm not happy at how hard Templars have to work to obtain that DPS, but it's there.  </P> <P>SOE has stated it a number of times, our lotto heals are our utility.  That's the answer, whether anyone likes it or not.  No class has spells like Involuntary healer or Mark of the Celestial.  Granted I still think they are a little limited in a group setting, but in a raid there is no comparison.</P> <P>Likes I said all my personal preference.  If you really feel you got short strawed, check out the Inquisitor or perhaps try another class.  *shrug*</P>

[Caethre]

<DIV><FONT color=#ff9900>OOC.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900>It must be kept in mind, that different people have different perspectives on these issues.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900>I have *no* comments at all on raiding, which is why when your first post mentioned raiding, I didn't reply when I read this thread, and I didn't open the thread again until today. However, in your second post, you said you were looking at all aspects, and in regard specifically to solo and small group play, I would certainly make comment.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900>As far as the solo/small group player is concerned, as another poster has already said, the Templar class is not a strong choice compared to some other priests (namely: druids). I will explain why.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900>In the playstyle I play, many of the "strengths" of the Templar class quoted by others who play primarily as raiders and full-group instance crawlers, are of relatively little use. For example, I cannot recall the last time I cast Focused Intercession or Sanctuary, they are not spells that I even have on my main spellbars.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900>By contrast, the main spells in my arsenal are - my mitigation, my melee (AP-enhanced), my nukes (all master 1 and with some spell haste APs), my mitigation debuff, my single target reactive, the supplicating fate spell, sometimes the mark debuff against harder targets, and very occasionally the stun/daze abilities. These are the vital abilities to the soloer and small group player Templar.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900>Our other heals are not as good, due to having such long casting times, and particularly the group reactive is terrible for that, as one tends to get almost always interrupted during those five long seconds, if one is tanking (solo or for a small group, as I often am).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900>You ask for comparisons with other healers, well, in this playstyle, the Templar has always faired between pretty badly and very badly compared to druids. Druid healing is easily a match for templar healing in such settings (infact, due to faster casting times, can often be better). But the big difference is DPS, where the druid classes can easily outstrip a templar in these settings, and/or can avoid being hit at all in many cases via use of root (and for Furies, snare too).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900>As a result of this, as a player of both Templar and Fury in the "endgame" (I hate that term, but you used it) as a solo/small group player, I have to say that the Fury is simply a stronger class for that setting. The devs have said that that is not their intention, but it remains my observation even today that that is still the case. I can still do things solo with Annaelisa (with 55 APs and in her crafted armour) that I could never do with Felishanna (with 70 APs and in mostly legendary and some broker-bought fabled armour now!). For example, I wouldn't be trying to kill level 69^^^ Dire Worgs in Loping Plains (near the Lyrech) with my Templar, but my Fury can do it. Or if we want to talk easier mobs, my Fury can still work her way through writs considerably faster than my Templar can. These are the issues that matter to me, at least.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900>Things are not as bad as they were back in the bad old days after LU#13, there is still a DPS deficit compared to the druid classes, and the addition of "root" to the Fury class, combined with Energy Vortex, has only made that gap wider again since EOF release. Infact, Energy Vortex is the killer difference, since the negative effect it has is irrelevant when soloing rooted mobs, but it adds a compounded 50% to the DPS of the caster for its duration.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900>The only area in my playstyle that the templar beats the druid is in tanking. There have been occasions where Felishanna has tanked for a group of 3, 4 or even 6, where no fighters were present but where there was another healer, and the group has been successful against challenging heroic content (for that group). That is something my Fury would not have been able to do.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900>Overall though, I would advise a new player who wanted to play casually, as a solo or small-group player, to choose a Fury or a Warden over a Templar every single time. I think most experienced players know this already, however. The only exception would be for roleplaying reasons (since I believe, roleplaying is the only reason to play EQ in the first place, but as a roleplayer, I would say that wouldn't I? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900>As I said several times, I am referring to players who are interested in small group and solo play. What I have said above does not apply to those who want to play a raiding playstyle; I would advise those who do to look for advice from someone other than me. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff9900>Felishanna.</FONT></DIV>

[Boli32]

The long and short of it is:Shamans get fantastic debuffs, and pretty decent buffs and reasonable DPS.Clerics get fantastic buffs, reasonable debuffs and reasonable DPS.Druids get no useful debuffs, reasonable buffs and decent DPS.Furys, Defilers and Inquisitors tend to have more offensively based buffs allowing them and their group do do more damageTemplars, Mystics and Wardens tend to have more defensivly based buffs allowing their group to survive longer and take more punishment.Utility you can't really count - on the whole though druids get slightly more but as mentioned most utility can be duplicated with bought items; the exception of this is ports. So what does this mean in the endless Fury Vs Templar debate?Well... on the whole 90% of the time in grouping and soloing Fury are the better class - they heal just as well and help take down the mobs quickerBUT (this is the big one)You come across anything too big for your tank to handle you can't debuff its attacks, buff your tank any higher than about 300 health (by contrast a templar can buff a tanks by about 1.5k I believe), no stoneskin, no involentary healing... all furys are is heals... and damage little else.Most of the time, this drawback is never noticed and if your fury is good and fast enough it can be compensated somewhat, but templars have this built into the class, sure they have their drawbacks but their advantage is they are far better healers, as healing is more than just about how much damage you can heal - its about how much damage you can <u>prevent</u> as well.Going into the realm of theoretical numbers here nowLets say for instance a templar has a healing power of 120 - this includes all of his buffs, additional health, everything that stops the tank dieing.... and on the same scale a Fury has a healing power of 90.Now you would consider the templar is a better healer and I'd agree with you on that basis alone but now lets say that 90% of the encounters you come across only need a healer with a healing power of 60.That additional 60 possible healing is wasted heck even the fury has got it easy and both will heal that encounter with ease. - You'll even have time to do a bit of damage yourself.... that additional dps with the fury does seem pretty tempting now.Where Templars excel is just the ability to step up to the plate and put the rest of the healers to shame... its just the situations where you would come across that situation are rare (i.e. epic mobs and tough single instances), where quite often the group would play it safe and bring multiple healers.An example of this is on a particually hard pull of Vynenm in labs... we'd lost a couple of healers and we bascially were healing full out throughout the fight... the healing parse came and I'd found I've done the best healing parse I'd ever done. (AoE damage furys exceel at having 3 group heals)... but it wasn't top it was second... my 89K healed in that short fight was overshadowed by the MT Templar.... 120kI doubt I've explained myself very well and this post will be ripped to bits in say *checks watch* 5min time, but I'll leave you with one thing... I choose Fury just for the name as well... back before I started to get into the numbers game, it was just "right, I'll play a healer.. ooh fury sounds cool I'll play that" and since that day I have endevored to become the best healer I possibly can in my chosen class.In the end that is all you can do... <div></div>

[Espyderman]

<DIV>Templars are by far one of the best healing classes. We can solo heal any group against yellows easily. I mean to the point where the ADS wont matter, we are ubah heala's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ive yet to be in a group, that had a templar, and looked for a druid. Ive been in many groups that wont go anywhere without a templar.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Templar heals are the highest, other direct healers cast quicker and heal for less and recast quicker. IMO healing ability is almost even but the templar edges out ahead. Plate armor allows a templar to heal alot, and take hits without worrying over dying. Heck we could tank if we really wanted too, if we had some taunts we would be UBAH!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Buffs, well we boff health alot, and mitigation. Plus we have a variation of Stoneskin, which seems to proc a ton especially with the AA. Ive had tanks in a group wonder where they are getting stoneskin procs from when they had no druids, they forget templars have a buff that absorbs physical damage as well. Debuffs are very usefull too and add to our healing ability. Melee, well we do very well there too especially with some AA's to melee criticals.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Overall Templars are one of the most sturdiest classes you will find, able to withstand alot of damage, and dish out a ton of BIG heals. The ability to get a tank from orange to green is mere seconds, and we dont get scared, im sure a Druid sees orange and panicks just a wee bit.</DIV> <P>Just for the record, i have a 51 Fury, and a 70 Templar. The fury doesnt come close to the healing power of my templar. However the fury can solo much better, with some risk in groups we work fine as long as nothing serious is being taken on, when something super tough comes along its every trick in the book for the fury, with the templar a few spells prior to pull and i got nothing to worry over. Fury, if he heals too much and steals aggro, the leather armor serves to have me fall quickly, but templar takes aggro and i can stand there and laugh at the mob, literally. <P>Oh and templars seem to have super high resists, compare to most, i think that also has something to do with plate armor...not sure, but i resist alot more then most i find.</P><p>Message Edited by Espyderman on <span class=date_text>01-25-2007</span> <span class=time_text>11:46 AM</span>

[Boli32]

<blockquote><hr>Espyderman wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div>Templars are by far one of the best healing classes. We can solo heal any group against yellows easily. I mean to the point where the ADS wont matter, we are ubah heala's.</div> <div> </div> <div>Ive yet to be in a group, that had a templar, and looked for a druid. Ive been in many groups that wont go anywhere without a templar.</div> <div> </div> <div>Templar heals are the highest, other direct healers cast quicker and heal for less and recast quicker. IMO healing ability is almost even but the templar edges out ahead. Plate armor allows a templar to heal alot, and take hits without worrying over dying. Heck we could tank if we really wanted too, if we had some taunts we would be UBAH!</div> <div> </div> <div>Buffs, well we boff health alot, and mitigation. Plus we have a variation of Stoneskin, which seems to proc a ton especially with the AA. Ive had tanks in a group wonder where they are getting stoneskin procs from when they had no druids, they forget templars have a buff that absorbs physical damage as well. Debuffs are very usefull too and add to our healing ability. Melee, well we do very well there too especially with some AA's to melee criticals.</div> <div> </div> <div>Overall Templars are one of the most sturdiest classes you will find, able to withstand alot of damage, and dish out a ton of BIG heals. The ability to get a tank from orange to green is mere seconds, and we dont get scared, im sure a Druid sees orange and panicks just a wee bit.</div> <p>Just for the record, i have a 51 Fury, and a 70 Templar. The fury doesnt come close to the healing power of my templar. However the fury can solo much better, with some risk in groups we work fine as long as nothing serious is being taken on, when something super tough comes along its every trick in the book for the fury, with the templar a few spells prior to pull and i got nothing to worry over. Fury, if he heals too much and steals aggro, the leather armor serves to have me fall quickly, but templar takes aggro and i can stand there and laugh at the mob, literally. </p><p><font color="#ffff00">Oh and templars seem to have super high resists, compare to most, i think that also has something to do with plate armor...not sure, but i resist alot more then most i find.</font></p><p>Message Edited by Espyderman on <span class="date_text">01-25-2007</span> <span class="time_text">11:46 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Most healers (and Paladins) have extremly high resists good armour + jewelry + insane amount of wisdom = great resists.<div></div>

[Espyderman]

<DIV>Yep, i just love grouping with SK's by the way, its a marriage in hell, but [I cannot control my vocabulary] templar and SK, with some DPS and i think we could take on the world!</DIV>

[da5idblacksun]

Thanks for all the great answers.  I really appreciate you taking the time on this.Just wanted to add that I've read all the DPS threads and it seems clear that you can't really hit the big DPS until level 67 when you can get the right weapon and do the melee AA line.<div></div>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> da5idblacksun wrote:<BR>Just wanted to add that I've read all the DPS threads and it seems clear that you can't really hit the big DPS until level 67 when you can get the right weapon and do the melee AA line.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I am currently working with an 18 Templar, a 31 Templar, a 42 Templar and a 52 Templar who would likely disagree fairly strongly with that statement.  Each is using a similar achievement/gear build based heavily around melee criticals, DPS, haste, and spell haste.</P> <P> </P>

[SenorPhrog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> da5idblacksun wrote:<BR>Thanks for all the great answers.  I really appreciate you taking the time on this.<BR><BR>Just wanted to add that I've read all the DPS threads and it seems clear that you can't really hit the big DPS until level 67 when you can get the right weapon and do the melee AA line.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That was pre-EoF for the most part.  I still haven't seen solid evidence that the new AP's for Templars that reduce our smite/strike cast time/power cost will match the blackscale maul melee dmg but it's a definite improvement.  I've been requesting more high delay/high damage crushing weapons for awhile.

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Radar-X wrote:<BR> I still haven't seen solid evidence that the new AP's for Templars that reduce our smite/strike cast time/power cost will match the blackscale maul melee dmg but it's a definite improvement.  <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I've been running tests with both my Guk and Test Templars in the Loping Plains to see some numbers.  Against level 68 heroic groups last night, I was averaging around 500-700 DPS with Guk.Kendricke.  Against blue solo 68's, I was averaging around 600-800 DPS with Guk.Kendricke.  Going full out with most tactics I could think of, I occassionally spiked to just over 900 DPS against some of the heroics.    This is only with 82 Achievements set for a fairly balanced hybrid build and some basic raid level gear.</P> <P>My Test templar is doing far less, but still manages green heroics (in Kaladim, for example) with a bit more downtime.  I'm purposefully keeping his gear and spell quality relatively low, and he still only has 35 Achievements (full out melee build).  Against most targets (solo blues/whites), he's pulling down some decent numbers, but I want to get a few more acheivements on him to fill out the melee build to really see what I can do.  </P> <P>I'm still playing with a few builds, and there's definately a shift toward casting with the Templar specific Achievements, but I feel we might want to wait for the global resist rate changes with GU31 to get a better bearing on where we're at for the moment.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[da5idblacksun]

<div><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> da5idblacksun wrote:Just wanted to add that I've read all the DPS threads and it seems clear that you can't really hit the big DPS until level 67 when you can get the right weapon and do the melee AA line. <hr> </blockquote> <p>I am currently working with an 18 Templar, a 31 Templar, a 42 Templar and a 52 Templar who would likely disagree fairly strongly with that statement.  Each is using a similar achievement/gear build based heavily around melee criticals, DPS, haste, and spell haste.</p> <hr></blockquote>What weapon are you using? </div>

[Moonsoldier]

You've been given alot of raiding info - all true.  When [Removed for Content] match discussions started, I stopped reading.Yes, other helaer classes got heal "buffs" but as their purpose is not to heal raw damage, they still suffer there.  We still outheal them in a group situation.  A mystic solo healing for a group can do it, if the fights are fast and not tearing too quickly through their wards.  Their single shot heals are slow and expensive in the mana department, and then they are not debuffing as much as a mystic should be.We get 3 debuffs that I use consistently; spurn, mark, and invol. healer/curate/etc.  the Sign line is useful on names, but only really if you buff it up with the AA line.  I followed the Compliances tree and find myself happy with it.Would I play any other class?  No.  I love running into the thick of a fight, standing on the MT for a rez, and living through AE's.  True in the lower levels we pull a lot of agro, but as the damage #'s the fighter classes (and everyone else puts out) get higher, our hate gets lower - plus there is a hate reducing AA in the WIS line.  I played a mystic alt for a bit and died every other fight cause dangit, I wanted to be there swinging my weapon (rar take that 12 damage!!), not sitting back and falling asleep.  I love being in the melee.  I love being able to autoattack on Vyemm and Alzid Prime <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I love being able to run right up with my tank - IMO "where I should be" and beat the snot out of things.<div></div>

[Fenrock]

<P>I totally agree with Moonsoldier.  Whenever I am not tired or just being lazy I am always up at the front of the group with the MT ready to autoattack with my devastating 15-34 dmg. (plus weapon proc)  Not too mention the other day I was in a group with all healers (there were 5 of us) and sense I had the highest mitigation I got to tank in ROV, even against Varsoon himself.  That was really fun and something I think a leather wearing healer would be a little harder pressed to accomplish, although the Fury did take agro from me now and then with Her higher damage.</P> <P>Besides those advantages, I find I enjoy the Templar class more than the Warden I had before.  I know that the Shamman's shields work well with certain types of tanks but I just don't like them quiet as much.  Looking back now that I have my experience from being a Templar the shields just seem like a more iffy type of healing.  Sence I was never exactly sure when they would break, (from crits and such) the tank would start to take crazy damage real fast and without putting another shield up my healing spells just didn't seem effective enough to save anyone.  But with my templar the tank gets healed the same amount no matter what and I never get caught off guard by the heal ending.  Althoguh this is probably just a difference in my play style and I am not saying that a player who likes the shamman style couldn't play it very effectively.</P>

[Winter]

<FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ff0099 size=3>In my opinion, Templars are mostly about other players... I love helping others. I just love it. However, if I had to reroll, I would likely reroll a Warden again... Why? Templar appearance is just SO bloody masculine. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </FONT>

[kajirala]

i first picked templar as my alt was because saw a picture or a templar iin very shiny armor. I made a templar just for the armor lol now i like it a lot

[Mew]

I started with a templar and  I like the class for groups and raids.  I just love the big massive heals and the ability to save everyone's butt in a crunch.  Mine is 55 now.  I mostly play a necro now simply because I solo a lot.  Templars are a poor solo class.  But on raids is where Templars really shine.  They are very nice in groups, too.  Especially when your tank is going against a pretty tough mob.  Resists on templars are good because of the high wisdom and a few buff spells that protect the party against arcane damage.   The group "cure all" ability is nice when you have several folks in your group all suffering from different DOTs.  I do like templars.

[da5idblacksun]

Is the "cure all" an AA?  I haven't seen that I have a cure all. <cite>Mewse wrote:</cite><blockquote>I started with a templar and  I like the class for groups and raids.  I just love the big massive heals and the ability to save everyone's butt in a crunch.  Mine is 55 now.  I mostly play a necro now simply because I solo a lot.  Templars are a poor solo class.  But on raids is where Templars really shine.  They are very nice in groups, too.  Especially when your tank is going against a pretty tough mob.  Resists on templars are good because of the high wisdom and a few buff spells that protect the party against arcane damage.   The group "cure all" ability is nice when you have several folks in your group all suffering from different DOTs.  I do like templars. </blockquote>

[Fenrock]

<p>At lvl 42 Templars get Cure Resolve wich cures arcane and trauma debuffs from the whole party.</p>

[ParlMoebius]

And its got a rather quick reuse timer, I use the group cure as my primary cure for trauma and arcane, with the single target as a backup.  This is crucial if youre up against say a named that likes to drop ae magic dots on the group...

[Bhee]

Isn't the reuse timer 15 seconds? I have to check this tonight.

[BoughtOnEb]

<p>I think your feeling the same way I did when I came in from EQ1.  The cleric/templar in EQ1 really had little competition in their area of expertise.  Some really well geared druids that could heal with us but still our complete heal as well as other healing spells set us apart.  In EQ2 it seems the classes of healers are more alike in what they can do as healers, the end result that is as far as healing is concerned.  You no longer have to have a cleric/templar in the group to have a great group.</p><p>Overall my feelings are that the templar just isn't that much fun to play.  We heal and we also can heal and then did I mention our healing?  Our DPS is the bottom of the barrel in the game as it should be if we were really such great healers no one can live without us, but that's not the case.  Our other spells are ok and in some cases very nice abilities but still others out do us with the abilities they have.  As far as groups I can play the whole night with one spell and no one is the wiser.</p><p>In short I agree with you, I see us as nothing special, sorry.  If you want something firm get on and do a /who all templar and then compare it to /who all fury.  Apparently your not the only one that feels templars have little that one would say is special.</p><p>I'm glad some of the others here have found some fun with the class and I don't mean to be so down but I played my templar to 70 and these are just my opinions.  I'm very disappointed and have taken the suggestion mentioned above and moved on to other classes that offer more variety as well as abilities.  The Templar is what it is and I don't see SOE making the changes that would catch my interest again in it.</p>

[Kendricke]

<cite>BoughtOnEbay wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Our DPS is the bottom of the barrel in the game as it should be if we were really such great healers no one can live without us, but that's not the case.  Our other spells are ok and in some cases very nice abilities but still others out do us with the abilities they have.  As far as groups I can play the whole night with one spell and no one is the wiser.</p></blockquote><p>Couldn't disagree more.  Start up a Mystic or even a Troubadour if you want to know what truly abyssmal DPS feels like.  </p><p>With my Guk Templar (moderately raid geared, mostly mastered, level 70 with 83 achievements mostly raid specced), I'm kicking out 5-600 DPS in groups and soloing with DPS spiking to 900 or more.  On raids, I'm still hitting number 2 on the heal parse while kicking out 3-400 DPS.  My Test Templar (horribly geared, Adept I's, level 70 with 35 achievements specced for damage) is still putting out around 500-700 DPS on Test, and has little issue soloing heroics (obviously the downtime is a tad lower, but again, he's intentionally geared about as badly as I can get him).   </p><p>A few of those "Newbies" from the experiment I attempted for a few months are still around.  One's in his 50's now.  He's fully damage specced, has no problem solo healing groups, and spent last night soloing heroics and named in Living Tombs to sell on the broker.  At level 56, he's got 47 points built around solo DPS and he's putting out 400+ DPS already.  I know level 70's complaining they can't put out 400 DPS.  </p><p>It's not just the class or gear here.  Skill and knowledge matter:  what allows a moderately quest/crafter geared level 56 to outdamage lightly raid geared level 70's can only really be explained in that way.  The class has a great deal of power for those willing and able to explore it a bit.  </p>

[da5idblacksun]

<cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BoughtOnEbay wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Our DPS is the bottom of the barrel in the game as it should be if we were really such great healers no one can live without us, but that's not the case.  Our other spells are ok and in some cases very nice abilities but still others out do us with the abilities they have.  As far as groups I can play the whole night with one spell and no one is the wiser.</p></blockquote><p>Couldn't disagree more.  Start up a Mystic or even a Troubadour if you want to know what truly abyssmal DPS feels like.  </p><p>With my Guk Templar (moderately raid geared, mostly mastered, level 70 with 83 achievements mostly raid specced), I'm kicking out 5-600 DPS in groups and soloing with DPS spiking to 900 or more.  On raids, I'm still hitting number 2 on the heal parse while kicking out 3-400 DPS.  My Test Templar (horribly geared, Adept I's, level 70 with 35 achievements specced for damage) is still putting out around 500-700 DPS on Test, and has little issue soloing heroics (obviously the downtime is a tad lower, but again, he's intentionally geared about as badly as I can get him).   </p><p>A few of those "Newbies" from the experiment I attempted for a few months are still around.  One's in his 50's now.  He's fully damage specced, has no problem solo healing groups, and spent last night soloing heroics and named in Living Tombs to sell on the broker.  At level 56, he's got 47 points built around solo DPS and he's putting out 400+ DPS already.  I know level 70's complaining they can't put out 400 DPS.  </p><p>It's not just the class or gear here.  Skill and knowledge matter:  what allows a moderately quest/crafter geared level 56 to outdamage lightly raid geared level 70's can only really be explained in that way.  The class has a great deal of power for those willing and able to explore it a bit.  </p></blockquote>So you need to be level 70 with many AA's and good gear before the class is fun?  Because without all that you don't do jack DPS and still you don't have any utility even with all that.  No safefall, no evac, no ports, no run buff, no invis, no FD, etc. In my mind the extra utility spells and built in DPS (decent without an uber build) would just be more fun.  From here, a Fury just looks like its a lot more fun.  Had I known two years ago what I know today, my main would be a Fury.  Healing ability is the same but you get so much more.  Even just the ports is a huge thing. Yes I could re-roll, but my main has done over 20 HQs, has a house full of no-trade goodies, has titles, status and I'm known by this name in the game. Man I wish I could get a one time subclass and race respec as a vetern reward since so much has changed. In addition to picking a Templar, I chose to be a Dwarf.  I also have the worst visual combination in the game.  The armor art for a Dwarf is the worst and specifically the plate armor (chain looks okay) is just terrible.  The Hoolah hat and Vaults hat for Templar suck as well in appearance.  I should be looking good now and easily recognizable as a high level character but I don't. I know it looks like I'm complaining and I guess I am but I just feel kind of robbed with how much time I've put into this character. /end rant

[Kendricke]

<cite>da5idblacksun wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BoughtOnEbay wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Our DPS is the bottom of the barrel in the game as it should be if we were really such great healers no one can live without us, but that's not the case.  Our other spells are ok and in some cases very nice abilities but still others out do us with the abilities they have.  As far as groups I can play the whole night with one spell and no one is the wiser.</p></blockquote><p>Couldn't disagree more.  Start up a Mystic or even a Troubadour if you want to know what truly abyssmal DPS feels like.  </p><p>With my Guk Templar (moderately raid geared, mostly mastered, level 70 with 83 achievements mostly raid specced), I'm kicking out 5-600 DPS in groups and soloing with DPS spiking to 900 or more.  On raids, I'm still hitting number 2 on the heal parse while kicking out 3-400 DPS.  My Test Templar (horribly geared, Adept I's, level 70 with 35 achievements specced for damage) is still putting out around 500-700 DPS on Test, and has little issue soloing heroics (obviously the downtime is a tad lower, but again, he's intentionally geared about as badly as I can get him).   </p><p>A few of those "Newbies" from the experiment I attempted for a few months are still around.  One's in his 50's now.  He's fully damage specced, has no problem solo healing groups, and spent last night soloing heroics and named in Living Tombs to sell on the broker.  At level 56, he's got 47 points built around solo DPS and he's putting out 400+ DPS already.  I know level 70's complaining they can't put out 400 DPS.  </p><p>It's not just the class or gear here.  Skill and knowledge matter:  what allows a moderately quest/crafter geared level 56 to outdamage lightly raid geared level 70's can only really be explained in that way.  The class has a great deal of power for those willing and able to explore it a bit.  </p></blockquote>So you need to be level 70 with many AA's and good gear before the class is fun?  Because without all that you don't do jack DPS and still you don't have any utility even with all that.  No safefall, no evac, no ports, no run buff, no invis, no FD, etc. In my mind the extra utility spells and built in DPS (decent without an uber build) would just be more fun.  From here, a Fury just looks like its a lot more fun.  Had I known two years ago what I know today, my main would be a Fury.  Healing ability is the same but you get so much more.  Even just the ports is a huge thing. Yes I could re-roll, but my main has done over 20 HQs, has a house full of no-trade goodies, has titles, status and I'm known by this name in the game. Man I wish I could get a one time subclass and race respec as a vetern reward since so much has changed. In addition to picking a Templar, I chose to be a Dwarf.  I also have the worst visual combination in the game.  The armor art for a Dwarf is the worst and specifically the plate armor (chain looks okay) is just terrible.  The Hoolah hat and Vaults hat for Templar suck as well in appearance.  I should be looking good now and easily recognizable as a high level character but I don't. I know it looks like I'm complaining and I guess I am but I just feel kind of robbed with how much time I've put into this character. /end rant </blockquote><p>Where did I say that?  You don't have to be 70.  I guess you missed the level 56 in there, too, right?  Mosey on over to the "<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=178144" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">The Great Templar Newbie Experiment</a>" while you're at it.  You certainly do not need to be 70 with "many achievements" to have fun with the class.  </p><p>There's a level 56 I mentioned who is putting out 400+ DPS.  I got ahold of him after he came back to the game as a level 42 with 0 achievements.  I got him turned around on what to do and in what order, and now he's soloing named and heroics.  </p>

[da5idblacksun]

<cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>da5idblacksun wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BoughtOnEbay wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Our DPS is the bottom of the barrel in the game as it should be if we were really such great healers no one can live without us, but that's not the case.  Our other spells are ok and in some cases very nice abilities but still others out do us with the abilities they have.  As far as groups I can play the whole night with one spell and no one is the wiser.</p></blockquote><p>Couldn't disagree more.  Start up a Mystic or even a Troubadour if you want to know what truly abyssmal DPS feels like.  </p><p>With my Guk Templar (moderately raid geared, mostly mastered, level 70 with 83 achievements mostly raid specced), I'm kicking out 5-600 DPS in groups and soloing with DPS spiking to 900 or more.  On raids, I'm still hitting number 2 on the heal parse while kicking out 3-400 DPS.  My Test Templar (horribly geared, Adept I's, level 70 with 35 achievements specced for damage) is still putting out around 500-700 DPS on Test, and has little issue soloing heroics (obviously the downtime is a tad lower, but again, he's intentionally geared about as badly as I can get him).   </p><p>A few of those "Newbies" from the experiment I attempted for a few months are still around.  One's in his 50's now.  He's fully damage specced, has no problem solo healing groups, and spent last night soloing heroics and named in Living Tombs to sell on the broker.  At level 56, he's got 47 points built around solo DPS and he's putting out 400+ DPS already.  I know level 70's complaining they can't put out 400 DPS.  </p><p>It's not just the class or gear here.  Skill and knowledge matter:  what allows a moderately quest/crafter geared level 56 to outdamage lightly raid geared level 70's can only really be explained in that way.  The class has a great deal of power for those willing and able to explore it a bit.  </p></blockquote>So you need to be level 70 with many AA's and good gear before the class is fun?  Because without all that you don't do jack DPS and still you don't have any utility even with all that.  No safefall, no evac, no ports, no run buff, no invis, no FD, etc. In my mind the extra utility spells and built in DPS (decent without an uber build) would just be more fun.  From here, a Fury just looks like its a lot more fun.  Had I known two years ago what I know today, my main would be a Fury.  Healing ability is the same but you get so much more.  Even just the ports is a huge thing. Yes I could re-roll, but my main has done over 20 HQs, has a house full of no-trade goodies, has titles, status and I'm known by this name in the game. Man I wish I could get a one time subclass and race respec as a vetern reward since so much has changed. In addition to picking a Templar, I chose to be a Dwarf.  I also have the worst visual combination in the game.  The armor art for a Dwarf is the worst and specifically the plate armor (chain looks okay) is just terrible.  The Hoolah hat and Vaults hat for Templar suck as well in appearance.  I should be looking good now and easily recognizable as a high level character but I don't. I know it looks like I'm complaining and I guess I am but I just feel kind of robbed with how much time I've put into this character. /end rant </blockquote><p>Where did I say that?  You don't have to be 70.  I guess you missed the level 56 in there, too, right?  Mosey on over to the "<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=178144" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">The Great Templar Newbie Experiment</a>" while you're at it.  You certainly do not need to be 70 with "many achievements" to have fun with the class.  </p><p>There's a level 56 I mentioned who is putting out 400+ DPS.  I got ahold of him after he came back to the game as a level 42 with 0 achievements.  I got him turned around on what to do and in what order, and now he's soloing named and heroics.  </p></blockquote>It's not just about DPS, it's about all the other lack of utility.   Also, are you sacrificing healing ability in order to moderate DPS?  If you want to be a DPS class, why work so hard and still get mediocre DPS?  We should primarily be a healing class, but my dissapointment is that natively we don't really do anything else.  Look my main is a Templar and will always be and I've learned to live with it.  My point is that it feels like Templars are not balanced well with the other healer classes. I appreciate your work on the DPS stuff and your enthusiasm for the class.

[Kendricke]

<blockquote>da5idblacksun wrote: It's not just about DPS, it's about all the other lack of utility.   Also, are you sacrificing healing ability in order to moderate DPS?  If you want to be a DPS class, why work so hard and still get mediocre DPS?  We should primarily be a healing class, but my dissapointment is that natively we don't really do anything else.  Look my main is a Templar and will always be and I've learned to live with it.  My point is that it feels like Templars are not balanced well with the other healer classes. I appreciate your work on the DPS stuff and your enthusiasm for the class. </blockquote><p>You still haven't looked over at the Experiment, have you?  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I don't sacrifice healing for DPS.  I don't advocate sacrificing healing for DPS.  Templars already have so much healing prowess over and above what's needed without any achievements needed.  Templars at your level are putting out 200-300+ DPS in groups while assisting with locking down adds outright stopping incoming damage and keeping their groups alive all at the same time.  Unless you're raiding (and you certainly haven't indicated that you are), then your healing should be sufficient without the heal criticals we get from achievements.</p><p>Our utility is based heavily around additional healing and control spells.  We stun, we daze, and we can reduce aggression ranges on potential adds - thus keeping them from being adds in the first place.  </p><p>For example, the other night we're in Nizara.  It's myself and a Fury keeping the group standing.  We're fighting a named, and the Fury goes down to a back knockback/AE which brings in adds.  Ok, now I'm the only healer...but we've got an illusionist locking down the adds, at least.  The problem is we have a pather wandering toward us.  I fire off Divine Recovery, drop a Soothe on the pather, Prostrate the named, and Arbitrate the group before dropping a group heal, and then cast Resurrection on the Fury before things get out of hand again.</p><p>If you want to play a Fury, play a Fury - it's a great class.  However, don't believe that Templars are weaker by comparison just because it's not "clicking" for you personally, or because they get invisibility when we get more heal spells.  Different players have different playstyles which tend to suit different classes better.  </p><p>We're very, very good at what we do.  Furies are good at what they do.  We intersect in many ways, but overall, I'm happier with my Templar.</p>

[da5idblacksun]

I've specced my AAs similar to this: <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=178173" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=178173</a> I've also read the thread you mentioned a few times. With my build if I focus totally on just doing damage, sometimes I can get up to 200dps.  At the high level, 200 is not worth doing - they should use my spot in the group for something else. I choose the above build to maximize my healing. The only DPS move I've made is 100% crit melee and I'm using a Blackscale Maul.  Helps a bit. DPS is really last on my list of why I feel we are deficient.  I think we are great healers and I love my class for that.  Just wish we had a couple of the utility spells.  Everyone seems to agree that all the healer classes can heal equally enough.  Given that, we seem deficient in areas outside of healing. Question: with your build, do you still get a large amount of interrupts if you're soloing more than 2 mobs?

[Kendricke]

<blockquote>da5idblacksun wrote: I've specced my AAs similar to this: <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=178173" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=178173</a> </blockquote><p>Which explains a lot.  Before you even mentioned your numbers, I had an idea on what you'd say.  Unless you're raiding, the above spec isn't likely to help you out a great deal.  If you spend any serious amount of time raiding in a primary Templar position, the above build out is just fine.  If you're not in raiding in a primary Templar position, you're spending a lot of resources on abilities that are likely overkill to the solo/grouping playstyle.</p><p>Without a single Achievement point, Templars are already powerful healers while soloing or grouping.  Adding to that healing for situations where that much healing isn't necessary is just adding to the overage.  You've already mentioned in this discussion how you're frustrated by your lack of damage and how you feel healing isn't a challenge.  So why would you set your build toward increasing healing even more?</p><p>Frankly, I can't imagine a Templar (even one with the above build out) putting out only 200 DPS at level 62.  I'd be very curious to know what your general tactics are during a fight, and would like a glance at the gear you're using as well.  If you'd like to send a PM with a link to your EQ2 Players, I'll do my best to offer up some advice that will likely enhance your nightly enjoyment regarding your Templar.  </p><blockquote><b><i>da5idblacksun wrote: </i></b> Everyone seems to agree that all the healer classes can heal equally enough.<span style="color: #01336b"> </span> </blockquote><p>I don't.  Different healers have different strengths and weaknesses in different situations.  Every healer is able to cover a minimal standard equally well, but past that minimal standard, the numbers most definately skew situationally.</p><blockquote>da5idblacksun wrote: Question:  with your build do you still get a large amount of interrupts if you're soloing more than 2 mobs? </blockquote><p>Not generally...and I'm soloing heroic groups (level 68 groups of 2-3 in Loping Plains with Guk.Kendricke and level 60-61 groups in Kaladim with my Test Templar).  Of course, I sometimes switch up tactics slightly if I'm fighting something challenging (our control spells come in mighty handy about then).  </p>

[da5idblacksun]

Thanks kendrick.  I sent you a PM. I have to say that even with the spec I have there are times where being the only healer in a group is still difficult.  Certain named MOBs in instances. I do a lot of PUGs so the situations aren't always optimal but in the end I want to be the best healer I can be.

[DarrkElf]

<cite>Radar-X wrote:</cite><blockquote> <blockquote> <p>But I think I'm getting my answer which is we are differentiated in the specifics of our healing style and not really in any other way.  I'm a bit dissapointed that Templars don't have a more balanced utility.  When I look at Druids I honestly get a bit jealous and have regrets that I chose the wrong class. I know from playing alts that have invis and run buffs how valuable those tools are.  </p> <span style="color: #ff0000">If you are looking for fluff with a little sacrificed healing?  Druid is the way to go.  I don't need SoW because I have a horse.  I'll admit ports are useful.  What else do they have?  Group invis?  It's called a Totem.  They are tempting, but I'm not going to cut my mitigation by 2/3 for that stuff.  I'm not giving up sanctuary, and something as powerful as focused intercession for fluff.  Just my opinion. </span> </blockquote><p> </blockquote> </p><p>A lot depends on what you plan to do in game.  I play as a Fury (level 70) and find that while I started out with the intention of only grouping and solo, now that I'm in the end game I spend a lot of time raiding.</p><p>Soloing I think Furies are amazing, especially if you follow the damage dealing AA lines.  The utilities we get are SOW, Group Invis and Opening Portals.</p><p>SOW is useless after level 50, as once you get a carpet or a horse they're much faster to use than SOW.</p><p>Group Invis you don't get until level 45.  At 30 you can use invis totems already.  Solo casting group invis saves you gold because you don't need totems.  In a group using your group invis is extremely risky, because quite simply, about 90% of the time that you cast it some doofus in the group breaks it by casting, engaging in combat, lagging too far behind or one of any other million excuses.  You cast group invis, carefully walk over to the other end of the zone, and as you're walking past some heroic mobs some [Removed for Content] is guaranteed to break the invis, so you will get pummelled.</p><p>Opening Portals rocks.  It's a great time saver and handy to move yourself and other players around the place.  I love this druid ability, as it's useful from level 25 all the way through the game, and is still of use in the end game.</p><p>That said, in order to get better offense and utilities Fury's give up a lot of healing.  A Fury that's specced for high DPS will have good INT, but will sacrafice WIS to do it.  The AA lines that give stronger nuking ability mean missing out on the healing AA lines.  Fury's wear leather, and therefore get fairly low mitigation when compared with Templars.  If the Fury has high Int and can nuke and keep the fight short then they are great, if the fight drags on then that low mitigation sucks.  If you stay solo, or even grouped this is no big deal.. but if you raid.... oh man...</p><p>If you're building a raid healer, my advice is do not go for a Fury.  There are heaps of Furies in the game, and only limited spots available in Raids.  While raids are usually screaming for healers, Templars/Mystics are amazingly better at keeping themselves and the raid group alive.  The only advantage in a raid situation that Furies seem to have over other healer is the speed that they can cast.  That's it.  And provided you have healers that can cast reactives or wards, the Fury heals are just supporting them.  The AoE's that are used by the mobs in raids are a real problem for Furies.  Group cures have a fairly long reuse timer, and we don't get a group arcane cure.  That combined with our leather armor means we take alot of damage everytime an AoE gets used by the mob and have a real scramble to try to recover ourselves while also keeping our group and the tank up.</p><p>I love soloing with my Fury, but want to build up a Templar for raiding.</p>

[Noirceur]

DarrkElf wrote: <span style="color: #990000"> The AoE's that are used by the mobs in raids are a real problem for Furies.  Group cures have a fairly long reuse timer, and we don't get a group arcane cure.  That combined with our leather armor means we take alot of damage everytime an AoE gets used by the mob and have a real scramble to try to recover ourselves while also keeping our group and the tank up.</span> It's funny you mention aoe's as a fury weakness as I think aoe's are one of the few points where having a druid is far more important than having a  cleric. The whole aoe thing is probably the reason why having a druid in the dps groups is so popular. First off no aoe should kill you as a fury unless you really have some funny positioning. Mitigation doesn't mean a lot anymore since the last combat changes. Maybe it's not your mitigation you should have a look at but rather your resists. You then wrote you have to heal yourself while also trying to keep the group up. I'm afraid you're doing something wrong then cause getting the group (and yourself) up after an aoe is something no other class can do as fast as a fury. You don't use solo heals, you have a very very fast group heal and a pretty fast group regen. Hit them both and your whole group is at full health in a matter of seconds. That's something a cleric can't do. The cleric would have to cast her direct heal (longer casting time than fury heal?) and then? Well, the group reactive won't really help much as the dmg is already done. So by the time the cleric can cast her group heal again the mob might have aoe'd a 2nd time and wiped the group. Now don't get me wrong: For the MT group having a cleric is so much more important cause clerics provide great buffs and are great at healing a single target. Clerics rock. But there's 2 things a druid can just do better: healing the dps group up and doing that odd quick heal on a mage or on the tank after a dmg spike. Furies have 2 fast large heals (don't forget Back into the Fray ancient teaching) so these 2 things are what furies are good at in general. I think the balancing is pretty well done tbh. Both classes are just fine. Hugs, Noir

[da5idblacksun]

I decided to roll a Fury and try it out and answer this question for myself.  Obviously I still need time to see how it is at higher levels but so far I'm enjoying it much more than my main Templar. I love my Templar and I've been doing high end raids and instances and he's a great healer ... but that is all he is. With the Fury I'm simply having more fun because he is much more versatile.  The utility spells make a huge difference. I'm duoing with a Monk and can provide much more to that situation than a Templar ever could. I understand that raiding is a totally different thing but I've never noticed a Fury having any difficulty getting into a group or raid.  In fact the current criteria seems to be a balance of plate vs non-plate. I'm often saying "thats not fair" when playing my Fury (referring to Templars being gimped).  It actually hurts more now that I've tried it.

[Bhee]

<cite>da5idblacksun wrote:</cite><blockquote>I decided to roll a Fury and try it out ... I'm often saying "thats not fair" when playing my Fury (referring to Templars being gimped).  It actually hurts more now that I've tried it. </blockquote>Wow - never thought of rolling a Fury (although all my friends who play Fury swear by it). I am still trying to play my Templar better - trying some recommendations from these posts. I can kill 61^^^ heroics but I still have hard time killing 63^^^ heroics in New Tunaria (for that abominable grindfest of quest called An Old Memoir - well that is another gripe for another board lol). Whereas my friend's Fury can take them with no problems (Yes - I went with her to verify that myself). Maybe I am lacking uber gear/spells (I don't have all fabled or all master 1s) - just some fabled, some legendary and rest mastercrafted with Ad3 spells (few M1). Looks like no developer even plays Templar anymore, so nothing is happening in this area. Looks at the Templar's issues list - no updates for months. Does that mean we are the only perfectly balanced class? Maybe so, but I am not so sure. I hope that I am wrong about Templars being a boring class while soloing. Maybe you folks can help me do better in soloing. BTW, I have no issues in groups - I heal great and have no issues there. So, I take my poorly geared conjurer when I want to solo <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Maybe, some day, I need to try out a Fury for a change <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Templars do it slowly ....

[sstair]

I would like to disagree with the comment that healing is about the same with other classes. I've got a 47 mystic and a 31 fury, and their healing doesn't hold a candle to my templar's.  Its not just the reactives (which do suck for avoidance tanks) and straight heals (which are a lot better than druid's).   Templars have a lot of other ways to heal, some of which are huge amounts of healing, such as the Mark, Fate and Glory lines. Once you add all those other spells in, Templars are the best healers in the game.

[RipFlex]

<p>Maybe I'm old fashion, but Healers heal... So I picked the templar because it seemed an END GAME plated priest with lots of Healing/Cure and good assortment of last resorts; I care less if I did 0 DPS.  Now with that said my AA line to be a Raid healer as well, my DPS although I care less is still fine for solo mobs on LnL, book quests, Writs, I expect nothing else.  Being my Main character and anyone on Guk has grouped with RipEscence knows reguardless how badly the Sh...t hits the fan (We are all going to die!!!) - you won't ( <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).  Why, besides being a good player, my AA lines and gear are all for Mega Healing ONLY.</p><p>Same thing with my Dirge, AA Line all for what Bards are despite what others pretend them to be... BUFF BOTS, when a class hass 10 or so buffs and only 5 concentration slots for them it's not rocket science what they are to be in the game, why fight it.  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>My Guardian... +Hate +Mit anything to keep agro and take less damage... What a Guardian is for what I build it for... I see no other path. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I guess I am old fashion?</p><p>I just see how the toolset is laid out, what arch-type they are and where they fit and build accordingly as expected to be best at and be better at it?</p><p>No DPS build for my Templar for me thanks.</p>

[Tommara]

<p>Heh, this thread gave me flash backs to when I first started playing a cleric in the original EQ.</p><p>In the beginning, I struggled, trying to provide some value to the group over other healers who had useful utility skills, like SoW, invis, ports, that I lacked.  I was soooo convinced that a dedicated healer was important.</p><p>In the end, we ruled in the healing department.  It was complete domination, especially combined with our ability to eliminate the death penalty, which was harsh in the original EQ.</p><p>Looks like the EQII devs took some effort to avoid that here.  To the point that I doubt you'll ever achieve the kind of dominance we "enjoyed" in the original EQ.  "Enjoyed" in quotes, because clerics ultimately ended up in chain gangs (to ensure efficient timing of our complete heals).</p><p>I do think SoE has over-reacted to the problem in the original EQ of having a superior healing class.  I've played other games, like World of Warcraft and Anarchy Online, where there still is a class that is vastly superior in healing compared to other classes.  But yet they are still in high demand, because not enough people want to play them.</p><p>Go figure.</p>

[RipFlex]

<cite>Tommara wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Heh, this thread gave me flash backs to when I first started playing a cleric in the original EQ.</p><p>In the beginning, I struggled, trying to provide some value to the group over other healers who had useful utility skills, like SoW, invis, ports, that I lacked.  I was soooo convinced that a dedicated healer was important.</p><p>In the end, we ruled in the healing department.  It was complete domination, especially combined with our ability to eliminate the death penalty, which was harsh in the original EQ.</p><p>Looks like the EQII devs took some effort to avoid that here.  To the point that I doubt you'll ever achieve the kind of dominance we "enjoyed" in the original EQ.  "Enjoyed" in quotes, because clerics ultimately ended up in chain gangs (to ensure efficient timing of our complete heals).</p><p>I do think SoE has over-reacted to the problem in the original EQ of having a superior healing class.  I've played other games, like World of Warcraft and Anarchy Online, where there still is a class that is vastly superior in healing compared to other classes.  But yet they are still in high demand, because not enough people want to play them.</p><p>Go figure.</p></blockquote><p>I couldn't say it better.  Everyone in my guild mostly Defiler this defiler that furies are awesome DPSers/and heals blah blah blah... but once a raid is formed they cry not enough Templars and scratching their heads on where are they, even to the point they get angry why very few to no templars they recruited signed up for raids.  Maybe give a little love than talking about how good the others are.... soon as you need are Cure all arcane, you are tearing up the floor for the Templars.  Suffer... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  If I log on my Templar when guild in a Raid I get /tells to join... on a DKP system it's like i get no DKP for joining late.... they over look it.  If we are not that good and Defilers are god why the begging for us at the last minute?</p><p>People NEED us for a moment then toss us out when done...  I sometimes feel so used.</p>