Battle Priest is possible! Great DPS inside! [Archive]

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DarkFelcon

01-06-2007, 02:59 PM

Hey Everyone!I have been spending over 3 weeks creating a build that will give DPS to Templars and I have come up with more than an amazing build for Templars to dish out stupid amounts of damage. I mean stupid amounts of damage as I have beaten almost every class in a parse except Bruiser and Swashbuckler (against undead I have won every parse).I have DESTROYED most classes duel wise (Currently 20 wins 0 loses). Awaiting to duel many other classes so don't take my word for it for duel-spec.I can solo more effectively than most of the classes in the game.The only problem with this build is it requires some working for gear and money. This is currently my aa build:Cleric Tree:0 - 0 - 0 - 8 - 80 - 0 - 0 - 8 - 40 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 80 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 80 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 045/50. Suggest you put the rest into buffing stamina.Templar tree:Filled all of smites excluding symbol of corruption.Put 4 in Spurn and 5 in Sign of Fraility and 5 in Forced Humility.Put 1 in Smite WrathPut 5 in arcane and trauma cures. That is 50/50Am wearing the following gear with use of reforming stone to give anything in int:Customized Hooloh HelmMajestic Dragon Breath's Adventurer's CloakCuirass of TruebloodPauldrons of Nem AnhkBracers of Nem AnhkGauntlets of Chamberlain (can switch with hand relic armor resists wise)Sanguinary CinchBlood Pact Leggings (can switch with legs relic armor for resists)Sabatons of Nem Anhk Bummer Gang MedallionKaladim AmethystSoul Snatcher EarringFree Ring slot, I put Blessed ring of the favoredSignet of Light From DarknessVampire Slayers band (if u want more crit chance, get Hollowcell bracer)Circlet of Storms2 +14 int hex dollsPristine Imbued Xegonite ScepterOrb of Emnity (can place resists tablet here if u want more resists)Pristine Fashioned Dragonhide tome (or tunare orb)Now with adept 3-master 1 self buffs, all +14 int adornments, and a crap load of +100 health adornments, you will have around 580 wisdom and 450 int and over 5-6 k in all resists (7-8k in some).You will have around 7k in health and 6k in power. You will have around 3.5-3.8 k mit.Dueling: Now with Aegis of Faith, Sanctuary, self heals, hammer, all smites, sign of frailty, forced humility, thermal shocker, spurn, and etc you should be a fast-casting domino. You should be extremely great since your cures will have reactives appended to them and you should be able to resist most stuns for a great amount of time. If you are in a bad situation, you can always stun and daze. In essense, you will be able to keep yourself alive very effectively and in the same time dish out amazing dps. Unless a person has great divine resists, they are in extreme trouble when coming your way. Usually only Paladins have their divine resists very high.PvE: First of all, you WILL win every parse in undead battles if you explain to everyone that you can dps and show everyone your power. You will mostly crit your turn undead nuke along with all the smites. Normal battle wise, you will be up there in the parse. You will perhaps be beaten by a monk or some crazy dps class unless you have God's Gift to EQ2: enchanter aa fast casting buff (until cancelled, 50 percent faster casting ability appended to your 14 percent, wow). This will make you extremely fast casting and be able to win a lot of parses. If you want you can put 8 into your own fast casting ability and be able to do it on yourself for the cost of a 4.5k-5k crit nuke to undead encounter.This is what I have been working on and has been a more than great success. You can try it too if you want =DDisclaimer: You absolutely don't have to listen to this. You can go along your marry way thinking I'm a doofus, but please don't crap on my idea. I would love people to give their ideas on having this build improved!<div></div>

Kendricke

01-06-2007, 08:26 PM

<DIV>I'm just curious as to what numbers you're pulling out as far as DPS with this build? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Ziggurat2

01-07-2007, 07:08 AM

<DIV>Why not go with six pieces of the Nem Anhk set in order to get the 33% spell haste? This would probably be a substantial boost in dps for the build, or have you just not yet collected the other pieces? I can't say I'm familiar with all the armor, but I imagine 33% spell haste would out weigh nearly everything you could get on the other pieces. I'm also curious what numbers you can put out on living encounters, with my melee spec I can deal 800+ dps on most encounters unless I get awfully unlucky in double attacks, wondering how much more, if any more, a spell spec'd templar would beable to deal with decent intelligence.</DIV>

Valin

01-09-2007, 03:07 AM

That's great for end game - or near end game and for a Templar that raids and has raid level gear. Too bad there are 65 levels of hell first.Message Edited by Valin on 01-08-2007 02:08 PM

Whitemane

01-09-2007, 03:16 AM

I know I'll catch flack for this but also if you wanted to do DPS, My advice to you is to roll a dps class =D. As No matter what you do or how you spec you will never come remotely close to what a well played DPS class will do. Trying to DPS with a Templar is like Oh I dunno trying to look cool in your pinto. Sure it may have flames stensiled on it but it is still a Pinto. ( Or heck any other Priest class can out DPS us depending on AA or gear ;p If you really wanna be a Battle Priest betray to an Inquisitor and you can even get an AA called that I do believe) Yes Yes I know, We've hashed the arguments to death, Its just my personal opinion: Templars = Healers != DPS mutter /rant off ;p

Kendricke

01-09-2007, 06:02 AM

Whitemane, In Echoes Beta, I was putting out a little over 1000 DPS on heroics in Loping Plains with quested gear and a hybrid melee/spellcasting achievement build. In addition to that, I was able to pretty much stay standing against most anything I chose to fight, what with the heals and buffs. It wasn't exactly all that amazingly difficult, either. I'm pretty sure that with a bit more practice and experimentation I could probably have hit even higher numbers. Now, my point wasn't to turn Templars into a DPS class, or even a soloing class, really. It was basically an experiment to take a tradtional grouping/defensive class and find new tactics and builds to expand the class. Even with that gear and achievement build out, I was able to solo heal groups in virtually any dungeon in the game. I didn't exactly feel horribly weak on raids, either. Don't get me wrong. I'm still personally very much a group/raid oriented Templar. I just think it's great to see players coming up with other ways to play the class that doesn't involve accepted_group-raid_heal_build_001-003.

Ziggurat2

01-09-2007, 06:49 AM

<DIV>I play my templar to group and raid primarily, however I am spec'd for DPS. This might seem a bit contradictory but the answer is simple. The bonus to healing is marginal from achievements, however the bonus to damage is more than noticeable. The only things in our KOS trees that truly boost healing [all the time, going to exclude divine recovery - never been a fan of long cooldown abilities myself but I could see its uses] are 16% heal crit and 14.4% spell haste. Due to the way heal crit works, this latter provides a little bit more than a 5% boost to rate of healing and healing efficiency, not too bad - but not amazing either. Now the spell haste is a bit tricky - it should theoretically increase rate of healing by 14.4%, however because of the way reactives and cooldowns work, I wouldn't expect it to be more than 5% again, though not it wouldn't improve efficiency at all. So a healing spec'd templar can heal about 10% more than a completely non heal spec templar.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However spec'd into dps, I get a much larger improvement. With a Vrak'sakin claw club(1-404 damage base) I get a huge boost from the crit, in addition to this I get 40 extra DPS. So I walk around at 60 DPS/23 Haste/20 Double Attack/100 Critical. I'm spec'd Blessings/Compliances though in EOF - I usually heal between melee swings(or melee between heals, whichever wording you prefer)</DIV>

Kizee

01-09-2007, 06:11 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Whitemane wrote: I know I'll catch flack for this but also if you wanted to do DPS, My advice to you is to roll a dps class =D. As No matter what you do or how you spec you will never come remotely close to what a well played DPS class will do. Trying to DPS with a Templar is like Oh I dunno trying to look cool in your pinto. Sure it may have flames stensiled on it but it is still a Pinto. ( Or heck any other Priest class can out DPS us depending on AA or gear ;p If you really wanna be a Battle Priest betray to an Inquisitor and you can even get an AA called that I do believe) Yes Yes I know, We've hashed the arguments to death, Its just my personal opinion: Templars = Healers != DPS mutter /rant off ;p <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Yep. I totally agree You really don't need a dps build to solo tho..... I have a pure healing setup and my intel is 200 something and cleared the nest of the great egg minus the last guy which I got to 50% before running out of mana. :smileyhappy: (pretty good for a templar IMO) I will be trying that again since I only got a chance to try him 2x because a friend needed my help with something and I needed to call out.Message Edited by Kizee on 01-09-2007 05:11 AM

Caethre

01-09-2007, 06:43 PM

OOC. The problem with threads like this, is that so often people make statements without the context in which those statements are made, leading to at best confusion, and at worst, people either not believing the statements or even considering those making them to be liars. Let me illustrate. Whitemane, you cannot make a global statement "if you want to DPS, roll a DPS class". It is a trite statement, because for casual playstyle players who operate in small groups and in solo settings, all classes are DPS classes. Yes, you read that correctly, that includes Templars. I solo *a lot*. I duo and trio *a lot*. I rarely join full groups, and almost never do instances. I absolutely never raid. Yet Templar is my class, and I need to be able to do things. If the case were (and I don't believe this to be the case, but I am making a point here) that Templar DPS was insufficient, I would be calling for more DPS, right now, and so would hundreds of other casual players. Bottom line - to players like me (of all classes), decent DPS is absolutely vital. Kizee, you make the statement "you don't need a DPS build to solo" and use as your example how you can clear the nest and half-kill the last guy in there. What you don't mention is the gear you need to be able to do that. I happen to know from watching the boards for a long time, your Templar is *extremely* well-equipped. Could a casual player templar, with gear bought on the broker, do that? The answer is no (and this has nothing to do with player skill, it is just due to gear). For the more normal player, in normal (broker-level) gear, spec-in for DPS makes a truely massive difference to what a Templar can achieve solo or in small groups, and that is vitally important to players like myself. That context (in your case, assuming you are raid-equipped) needs to be stated, so that new players are not fooled into thinking their poorly-equipped Templar can do it. Ziggurat2, your last post I completely agree with, actually. The healing benefits from AP are quite small, other than healing crits, so I can see why some raiding Templars might choose your route. However, your previous post refers to equipment that your average casual player is not likely to be getting hold of (I can't see myself getting 6 pieces of that armour anytime soon!), so there is context there too. Rioisk, as for your opening post, all fine except - you quote no numbers for DPS measurements, and without numbers, we can't tell what you consider to be "great DPS". However, the gear you list is also not exactly common broker material, and one has to say, what could (for example), a Fury of equivalent quality of gear achieve, with their own DPS measurements. I would suspect, a hell of a lot more, and if so, since when it comes down to it class balance is one of the most vital factors for small group and solo casual-style players, I would not be defining the DPS as "great" if another class in the same archetype can leave us standing. Of course, this is all speculation, as you don't quote any solo parse numbers, with qualifying details like target type. Felishanna.

Wastura

01-10-2007, 05:52 AM

Perhaps I misunderstood, but I will say that player skill is greater than gear, spells, AA. My bruiser is comporably geared and can't take a single mob in MM. My templar can take one on and out in 60 seconds while suffering only 20% power lost (health losses hard to measure for healers) I'm not dps spec'ed, truth is you don't play a templar to be dps, or if you do you foollow the Kendricke school of reason. But I know my templar inside and out, the bruiser is a passing hobby. My raid leader makes the mobs in MM look like level 59 solo mobs, and she is a bruiser that knows that class well.

Whitemane

01-10-2007, 07:59 AM

/sigh I knew I'd take flack for my DPS comments. Well Im trapped at work so I can't get into it too much. However let me just say these points: i) Play you're Templar how you'd like. The absolute #1 Goal is to have Fun. I can't tell anyone how to do that. For me I like raiding, I like doing the harder stuff like Nizara or solo healer in a group of Monks at level 64 in HoF stuff like that others are questoholics etc. ( Dont worry I'll get to the point eventually) ii) I never said we could not do DPS. If I actually try I can do ~300DPS as solo healer in the group and still keep everyone alive. Its Incredibly easy to do in EoF due to the hordes of undead in MMC or MM at level 70. However I am fully fabled and mastered ( well nearly I still need Holy Redoubt). Around ~400 - 600 is about average when solo'ing depending. Caethre is completely correct in saying that in any group any one can be expected to DPS is a small group you all want to be doing some. Any little bit Helps. And 2 you do need to be able to at least kill solo content no matter what class you are. No disagreement there from me. However ( warning point alert ;p ): A Templar is NOT a DPS class. No matter how you stack it we will ALWAYS be outclassed DPSwise by pretty much ANY other of the 23 classes. Situations will vary of course but me personally Im ok with that. The reason being is that I see us a Healers first and DPS what have you second. I do enough DPS to kill mobs whilst solo'ing thats fine by me. I could care not a whit what I parse in Raids etc. I only care that I heal to the outmost ablitiy that my class is capable of. The problem I see, and why I /rant about people complaining about our DPS is that it tends to take the focus away from where I feel the focus for a Templar should rightly be: Healing. I do not want to be a "Battle Cleric" If I wanted that I'd betray to an Inquisitor and go down that AA line. ( ask most Inq's how they feel about that BTW ). If you are trying to do DPS as focus of the Templar class you are doing yourself and the class a diservice in my opinion. There are much better options out there ( though I doubt there is a safer solo'ing class we solo slow but its safe sorta like a Volvo ;p ). I'm not saying dont do all you could possibly do as a Templar and thats why I think the AA options Kendricke pointed out are good for those people who do want to do all the DPS they can do. Where it all goes to pot is when people focus on our DPS as a goal. Which to me goes against the whole design of the class. I think our DPS as class is pretty much where it should be at the moment. I'm at work otherwise I'd go into more detail but thats the short of it. Hopefully that clarifies my position on the whole Templar DPS thing a bit. <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caethre wrote: OOC. The problem with threads like this, is that so often people make statements without the context in which those statements are made, leading to at best confusion, and at worst, people either not believing the statements or even considering those making them to be liars. Let me illustrate. Whitemane, you cannot make a global statement "if you want to DPS, roll a DPS class". It is a trite statement, because for casual playstyle players who operate in small groups and in solo settings, all classes are DPS classes. Yes, you read that correctly, that includes Templars. I solo *a lot*. I duo and trio *a lot*. I rarely join full groups, and almost never do instances. I absolutely never raid. Yet Templar is my class, and I need to be able to do things. If the case were (and I don't believe this to be the case, but I am making a point here) that Templar DPS was insufficient, I would be calling for more DPS, right now, and so would hundreds of other casual players. Bottom line - to players like me (of all classes), decent DPS is absolutely vital. Kizee, you make the statement "you don't need a DPS build to solo" and use as your example how you can clear the nest and half-kill the last guy in there. What you don't mention is the gear you need to be able to do that. I happen to know from watching the boards for a long time, your Templar is *extremely* well-equipped. Could a casual player templar, with gear bought on the broker, do that? The answer is no (and this has nothing to do with player skill, it is just due to gear). For the more normal player, in normal (broker-level) gear, spec-in for DPS makes a truely massive difference to what a Templar can achieve solo or in small groups, and that is vitally important to players like myself. That context (in your case, assuming you are raid-equipped) needs to be stated, so that new players are not fooled into thinking their poorly-equipped Templar can do it. Ziggurat2, your last post I completely agree with, actually. The healing benefits from AP are quite small, other than healing crits, so I can see why some raiding Templars might choose your route. However, your previous post refers to equipment that your average casual player is not likely to be getting hold of (I can't see myself getting 6 pieces of that armour anytime soon!), so there is context there too. Rioisk, as for your opening post, all fine except - you quote no numbers for DPS measurements, and without numbers, we can't tell what you consider to be "great DPS". However, the gear you list is also not exactly common broker material, and one has to say, what could (for example), a Fury of equivalent quality of gear achieve, with their own DPS measurements. I would suspect, a hell of a lot more, and if so, since when it comes down to it class balance is one of the most vital factors for small group and solo casual-style players, I would not be defining the DPS as "great" if another class in the same archetype can leave us standing. Of course, this is all speculation, as you don't quote any solo parse numbers, with qualifying details like target type. Felishanna. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>

Caethre

01-10-2007, 02:08 PM

OOC. Absolutey no problem with your response until you said this :- <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Whitemane wrote: However ( warning point alert ;p ): A Templar is NOT a DPS class. No matter how you stack it we will ALWAYS be outclassed DPSwise by pretty much ANY other of the 23 classes. And it is this last sentence/statement, and indeed, this very point of view, that I take major issue with. It is factually incorrect and it is not the intended design as published and stated on these very boards by the developers of the game, and therefore needs to stop being posted by players as the "correct" way to view the Templar class. YES, we are meant to be lower DPS than the 18 classes of the other 3 archetypes. Absolutely. But NO, we are not intended to be lower DPS in solo settings than the other 5 classes of our own archetype, the other priest classes. I am not saying (here) whether we are or are not, I am making a clear statement, that there is absolutey no clear intention that the Templar class is intended to be less capable in small groups and solo settings, to be able to hold its own (which includes DPS) than characters of equivalent gear of the other five priest classes. If the situation were as it once was very clearly, back after LU13/15, when Templars were simply sub-par compared to the other healer classes in small groups, then rebalancing would again be needed. The problem I see, and why I /rant about people complaining about our DPS is that it tends to take the focus away from where I feel the focus for a Templar should rightly be: Healing. I do not want to be a "Battle Cleric" ... The problem I see, and the reason *I* reply to posts about this, is preceisely the inverse. My character *is* that Battle Cleric, and very much wants to be that. I see no major problem with our healing power in small group and solo settings compared to other priest classes. I do see potential for dropping behind in DPS once again, making us effectively weak and even pointless compared to those other priest classes. I'm pleased you are happy with balance in a raid setting, but that is not my concern as I have no interest in raiding, so forgive me if I concentrate on what matters to me (and to many other players). Our aims do not need to be at odds, since balance for one setting does not in principle preclude it for another. If you are trying to do DPS as focus of the Templar class you are doing yourself and the class a diservice in my opinion. Not "the" focus, just one focus, but a vital one, and the one we are generally struggling in. But as for "disservice", once again, I feel the precise opposite. I have long been one of the champions for the small group and solo Templar player, the casual-playstyle Templar player. I am that small-group Templar player to whom this is my game, every day that I play. Far from a disservice, I have always been about championing the case for balance for players of that playstyle, and I see it as vital to the good of our class as a whole. If any disservice is being done, it is by statements like "Templar is not a DPS class, and should have (significantly) lower DPS ... than other priests". It shouldn't. We should have there or thereabouts the same level of DPS in solo and small group settings as the other priest classes. OK, it is never going to be equal, of course. But similar, in the same ballpark. The mindset of some Templars needs to change. This is not the EQ1 Cleric class, where we were the healing class above all others. In EQII we are not. In small group settings, the six priest classes are all pretty much equivalent in what they bring to a group in terms of healing. For balance, they need to have the options there to bring pretty much the same as a total package, and a vital part of that is the damage they bring. Where it all goes to pot is when people focus on our DPS as a goal. Which to me goes against the whole design of the class. And again, we disagree. I see DPS as the main focus of my character at this time, and indeed, for all casual player Templars, because it is the area that we are weak in when compared to those other priest classes that might fill our place in a small group, or whom we could be soloing with instead of playing our Templar. The healing is vital yes, but I have not seen any evidence in my own play, or heard tales from others in theirs, that our healing is lacking compared to other priests, and so I do not have concerns there at this time, and neither do I have any issue in small groups against the content I fight regarding my healing, which is why my focus is not there. DPS will continue to be the main focus of many casual player Templars. I do realize this is not true for many raiders, and that's fine. Just remember, some of us play in very different ways. I think our DPS as class is pretty much where it should be at the moment. Well, your assessment is yours. I will refrain from giving my personal assessment at this time, other than to say that I have concerns once again (which I did not have prior to EOF release). <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Felishanna

DarkFelcon

01-11-2007, 10:55 PM

Okay, sorry for being a n00b and not posting any numbers =PThis is some more info on what I'm doing:The numbers I pull on damage depend on the amount of dmg overall the group is doing on a mob, so the number depends on how many true dps classes u got in the group in my opinion. To undead mobs, I can score up to 1000 if I am in super crit mode. That means I am lucky enough to crit every shot. If I am less fortunate, I go around 800.Now for normal mobs, you will see somewhere around 500-600 dps rating. These numbers are coming from me and with no screenshots or such, so I am not even for a second asking you all to believe me, just showing numbers to people who want them.Now the reason I actually strive for dps is for a number of reasons. First, I want to solo efficiently. Yes people are explaining before me that you can pretty well solo without the build, but I beg to differ. Another reason is to be able to duel and win quickly and not have an hour long duel of who loses all their mana first, this reason being that one day I would love the arena to come back =P. Another reason is to bring another function to templars other than healing, as all classes can now bring another function other than their primary function with all these new aa's. It's all about creativity and I'm just expressing my creativity with numbers to bring out something people wouldn't really see in a class such as a templar. And theirs always an offset of napoleans complex damage wise that we wanna-be dps people always have =P(too lazy to lvl another char >_< )<div></div>

Kendricke

01-12-2007, 05:36 AM

Download Advanced Combat Tracker and you can start pulling in actual numbers. Whenever I've tested the Wisdom builds in the past, I've never been able to outperform melee or spellcaster DPS builds for Templars - even against undead. So, I'd be quite curious to see what numbers you're pulling in now against undead with the build you've chosen.

R/T93

01-15-2007, 11:47 PM

I recently spent my AA's in a partially new way. Before EOF i think the AGI/STA line was best for templars, but since EOF, melee hits miss too often and with an 8 second delay weapon it really ruins your dps. I went from ~1000 dps all out to less than 700 due to missed swings on single target raid mobs. I respecced, 4/4/4/8 in the STA line, 4/4/8/8 in the INT line 4 to plain wisdom and 1 point in the undead encounter nuke. My Templar line is pretty much the full Blessing line, but with just 1 point in Glory of Combat. I also have 15 other points in the Smite line, maxxed out Judging Smite, Holy strike, and Warring Axiom. I still need 6 more points to be able to use the final smite ability, the 25% extra dmg. I did a Lyceum raid last night and i was VERY impressed. I was chain nuking the entire zone and my power stayed >80% the whole zone pretty much (did have a coercer and dirge in group) but the spells cast so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] fast and cost SO little power its pretty incredible. On the undead Droag's my Holy smite was critting 1/3 hits and even the non crit hits were 12-1400x2. I had around 430 INT (used a potion). After dispatch, my crit Turn Undead hit up to 3500, and thats with just 1 point in it. My crit holy Smite was critting for 16-1900x2. Thats 3500+ dmg for 55 power. Find me another class that can do that every 5.5 seconds. Judging smite was hitting for 900+ (crits 1300) Warring axiom crits were 1100+ with 350 DOTS. This is by far my new favorite line. I am an MT templar and i wasnt feeling the cure line working very well, so i switched, and im glad i did. I suggest all raiding templars try this out. On trash mobs why not help out and deal an extra 800 dps for the raid!. My high parse was 1055 on a single target. I didnt use my hammer pet on that fight. I parsed 420 dps through the zone, but of course the named i healed so my DPS went down (1/4 the entire fight time of the zone was named fights). I cant wait to get my 25% bigger nukes and start dealing 12-1500 dps and actually making the parse!!

DarkFelcon

01-17-2007, 09:24 PM

<DIV>Theres your numbers right above me. I parse the same pretty much. During groups get the illusionist casting speed buff along with a dirge.......even more dps. I hit up there with wizards...its kinda funny...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Had an extremely annoying voiced fury cursing me out on vent because I destroyed him in dps. hahahaha</DIV>

Caethre

01-18-2007, 05:09 AM

OOC. I am sorry, and I mean no disrespect at all, but once again I feel I must state, that parses made during raids mean just about nothing at all. There are too many variables. For accurate DPS comparisons between classes, or between members of the same class with different AP selections, you need detailed repeated parse data for the solo setting. The details would need to include number of targets, target types, AP selections, spell quality, character stats and gear. Without this sort of detailed data, no-one can tell if one persons "I can do 1000 DPS in situation X" is better or worse than another persons "I can do 500 DPS in situation Y", because the devil is in the details. The reason I stress all this so much is, I feel that this thread gives poor advice (again, not intentionally, and no disrespect to the OP at all). I assess, as a solo/small group player, that the best DPS that a casual playstyle templar is going to achieve against the full range of normal targets (not just against undead) once they have 50 KOS APs is going to be via taking STA 448 AGI 448 INT 4445 or STA 448 AGI 445 INT 4448 depending on exact playstyle, assuming the character can acquire a 1:5 min:max damage ratio (or better) weapon like a Blackscale Maul or (as I just bought on the broker the other day) a Cudgel of Pain. Add to this a need to get five ranks each in the smite, strike and dot EOF AP skills, and then spend more in the Holy Smites line to purchase Smite Wrath (although this will work a lot better when SOE actually get around to fixing the bug that causes hitting the HO button to activate Disable Smite Wrath, sigh). Note, I am not talking about the best setup for raiders here, just for DPS for solo/small group Templars. I still intend (some day!!) to actually produce a whole lot of data to back this up (I'm just too busy at work at the moment to spend the time on this project). Felishanna.

SenorPhrog

01-18-2007, 08:55 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caethre wrote: OOC. I am sorry, and I mean no disrespect at all, but once again I feel I must state, that parses made during raids mean just about nothing at all. There are too many variables. For accurate DPS comparisons between classes, or between members of the same class with different AP selections, you need detailed repeated parse data for the solo setting. The details would need to include number of targets, target types, AP selections, spell quality, character stats and gear. Without this sort of detailed data, no-one can tell if one persons "I can do 1000 DPS in situation X" is better or worse than another persons "I can do 500 DPS in situation Y", because the devil is in the details. The reason I stress all this so much is, I feel that this thread gives poor advice (again, not intentionally, and no disrespect to the OP at all). I assess, as a solo/small group player, that the best DPS that a casual playstyle templar is going to achieve against the full range of normal targets (not just against undead) once they have 50 KOS APs is going to be via taking <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Have to agree, raid parsing is worthless for an accurate DPS reading. Skills like dispatch skew data and a raid group is full of debuffs, hastes, etc... that you won't nomrally have available. A casual Templar with mediocre gear/skill/spells is probably going to achieve around 400 DPS. We won't be able to prove that, because most people who come here aren't casual and inexperienced. All the data I've seen are from veteran players. It makes a difference.

Kendricke

01-18-2007, 09:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Radar-X wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caethre wrote: OOC. I am sorry, and I mean no disrespect at all, but once again I feel I must state, that parses made during raids mean just about nothing at all. There are too many variables. For accurate DPS comparisons between classes, or between members of the same class with different AP selections, you need detailed repeated parse data for the solo setting. The details would need to include number of targets, target types, AP selections, spell quality, character stats and gear. Without this sort of detailed data, no-one can tell if one persons "I can do 1000 DPS in situation X" is better or worse than another persons "I can do 500 DPS in situation Y", because the devil is in the details. The reason I stress all this so much is, I feel that this thread gives poor advice (again, not intentionally, and no disrespect to the OP at all). I assess, as a solo/small group player, that the best DPS that a casual playstyle templar is going to achieve against the full range of normal targets (not just against undead) once they have 50 KOS APs is going to be via taking <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Have to agree, raid parsing is worthless for an accurate DPS reading. Skills like dispatch skew data and a raid group is full of debuffs, hastes, etc... that you won't nomrally have available. A casual Templar with mediocre gear/skill/spells is probably going to achieve around 400 DPS. We won't be able to prove that, because most people who come here aren't casual and inexperienced. All the data I've seen are from veteran players. It makes a difference. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Count the snowballs and watch for winged swine above your head, because I'm agreeing with both Caethre and Radar here. Raid parsing is great...within your specific raid set up. It's even good for determining numbers in a general raid setting. It's not going to help you solo, though. In my testing, as much as I've TRIED to get the Wisdom line up there, it's really only good for a relatively noveltry trick approach. Don't get me wrong. In Echoes Beta, with a 100 point undead slayer spellslinger build out, I was destroying groups of heroic undead in the Loping Plains for around 1100+ DPS. However, I'd shift over to Bummer Gang groups and find myself with issues just completing basic quests. Oh sure, it was still possible...but much harder than I was used to. With the wisdom/spellslinger build out, I found that when you were doing well you were doing very well, and when you weren't, you really weren't.

Mo-S

01-18-2007, 09:35 PM

Guys, every post in templar forum is about DPS. I'm playing templar for year and half. And as I see it, we do enought DPS. We are plate healers, not dps. We cannot solo everything like other classes. Try to remeber that, and don't start another flame war <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> We are templars, we should stick together.As for EOF. As a healer, I cried when I saw new AA tree. Other classes recieved boost to their heals, and templars got more DPS. Hello??? It's missundurstanding!!!Templar is a healer not DPS. Ofcourse I have so much fun trying to be DPS, and do over 500dps. But when I'm on raid my main priority is to heal! The only worth thing to spend points in new AA tree is to boost Spurn. Reactives on Cures doesn't work how they should be working and are pretty useless. Blessing are also crap - maybe only Involuntary is worth it. And maybe when SOE could put more than 1% to Glory of Battle proc per one point it could be great - but now it's useless. Glory of Batle has potential but in this form it useless.Anhk legendary set is cool. With that we could have around 49% casting speed constantly. This buff is not only to DPS but to healing too. Bah, only one positive thing from EOF <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> WIth that I can keep MT group alive when my mystic is stunned with Oberon <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />As I see that, in new AA line, beside DPS branch there should be healing one. WIth same method - lower power cost and reuse time, and for 20 points get 25% boost to all healing spells <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Well maybe 10%... 25% is too much <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> That way everyone could choose to be Battle Priest or Healing Priest.Now, we are stuck with dps choices. And we have to find others ways to enchance our healing powers (adorments, armour sets). <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

Kendricke

01-19-2007, 12:19 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mo-Shi wrote: Guys, every post in templar forum is about DPS. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> So...instead of starting a new post to discuss your concerns over healing, you interject those off-topic concerns into a discussion that's clearly labled as a thread regarding damage?

Eriol

01-19-2007, 12:58 AM

<blockquote><hr>Caethre wrote:Smite Wrath (although this will work a lot better when SOE actually get around to fixing the bug that causes hitting the HO button to activate Disable Smite Wrath, sigh).<hr></blockquote>I /bugged that as soon as I betabuffed my templar in EoF beta and tried that line out. Very disappointing that it STILL hasn't been fixed.

Tash 1

01-23-2007, 01:57 PM

<DIV></DIV> I have tried the Sta Wis line. I have no single fable piece! Sob! I’m just so unlucky on rolls <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> So legend is all I have. I pharse 300-400 against no undead and 700-750 against undead. (Solo naturally) I haven’t been able to solo nest first name yet but I have the feeling I will be able pretty soon. I doubt very much that I could go very much better in DPS without getting some uber equipment <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> /Tash

Banadux

01-27-2007, 01:49 AM

I was wondering where to go to solo some named at 70 so thanks for the the people talking about Nest I'll be giving that a shot.<div></div>

Tash 1

01-30-2007, 12:12 PM

<DIV> Some times I feel rather stupid!:smileysurprised: Never played a tank so my pulling technique isn’t very good. It turns out that first named in Nest isn’t linked with the 2 adds close to him. So if one bodypulls the two adds first one can fight the named solo after that. So with that clear soloing the first named wasn’t even hard. From this I learnt not to underestimate the tanks. They actually do have brains! Small but never the less brains. :smileywink: /Tash (Just kidding love good tanks)</DIV>

Vincenzo

01-30-2007, 10:12 PM

I just want to say thank you to all the posters in both this thread and Kendricke's "newbie experiment" thread.I've been lurking on your forums for some time now. I play a Dirge as my main but was missing playing a priest class recently, so I made a templar, a class I hadn't tried before.I'm loving it, and because most of my RL friends who were regular with me have quit and the pick up groups on my server can be horrendous (rude people who use "ffs" before every word and are loot greedy) I started to solo more and more.This made me look at Templar DPS options, as well as the Achievements and eventually these threads.It's been most enlightening and I want to congratulate you on spreading the information and highlighting what a good job Sony have done with the achievements to allow so much tweaking for the Templar. Dirges don't have it this good I can assure you.To the naysayers and those flaming the people talking about DPS on a templar (aka the "go heal and shut up" crowd) forum, I think you should open your eyes a little to the options and at the very least respect those out there that choose to play with them just as they respect your decision to be the "Ultimate Healer(tm)".A lot of people who play this game miss something important about the Achievement system imo: It's not always about improving on your strengths, but often about rounding out some weaknesses or providing rare utility. That's why you'll see the endless posts from Scout classes whining that the Priest/Warrior EoF achievement trees do so much for dps, while theirs doesn't.As a Dirge player, I'm jealous <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />peace,V<div></div>

Soepec

02-14-2007, 07:34 AM

please try to understand a templar's dps,55epicx2 with 20 adds: <img src="http://www.everquest2.com.cn/eq2/UploadFile/2007-1/200712410524073361.jpg" border="0">

Kendricke

02-15-2007, 11:08 AM

Flat out fantastic!