Mitgation = Avoidance numbers?

[Kyom]

the combat forum would probably be the better place to ask this but I feel more at home here <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />What I am trying to figure out:If you compare 10% Mitigation to 10% avoidance it will come down to the exact same number of damage not taken?10% avoidance = 9 hits * X damage + 1 miss * 0 damage = 9*X10% mitigation = 10 hits * X*0.9 damage = 9*XThat right?<div></div>

[SenorPhrog]

<DIV>You are excluding a number of variables but yes...if you just take nothing at all but avoidance and mitigation, it should wash.  </DIV>

[Antryg Mistrose]

Theoretically yes, but in practise (ask any brawler) the devil is in the details.Complicating factors:Avoidance is made up of components, some are contested against the mobs skill/levelSome mobs have had a "Plus to HIt"Mitigation is for physical attacks only. There is also the Resistance equivalent for non-physical attacks.There is plenty of speculation and some interesing formula's about, but as none of us work for SoEits just that.  Extrapolation from the data SoE does provide has been posted as fact, but take it with a grain of salt.<div></div>Some facts?  (Well from SoE anyway)Mitigation is now capped at 75% (down from 80%<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and is basically unreachable by mere mortals<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=339" target="_blank">Base avoidance depends on your class.</a>      * Guardians, Berserkers, Paladins, Shadowknights, Templars, Inquisitors: 5% Avoidance     * Assassin, Ranger, Brigand, Swashbuckler, Dirge, Troubador, Defiler, Mystic: 10% Avoidance     * Warden, Fury, Monk, Bruiser: 15% Avoidance     * Wizard, Warlock, Coercer, Illusionist, Necromancer, Conjurer: 24% AvoidanceThis was an update to:<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=330" target="_blank">Damage Mitigation and Resistance</a>- Maximum mitigation/resistance numbers for your current level have been increased from [ Level * 80 ] to [ Level * 150 ].- Damage mitigated now has diminishing returns, with the point at which the old system and new system meet set at 3675 armor/resist value or (52.5%<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> for level 70 players.- The new mitigation cap for any type of damage is 75% which is reached at [Level * 150] armor or resist value.- The mitigations / resistances for some item bonuses will appear to have dropped. This was due to a rounding error in their display. Their actual resistance / mitigation values have not changed in most cases.Stat Caps- All stat cap maximums have been increased from [ 7 * Level + 20 ] to [ 15 * level + 20 ]- Stat benefits are now on a diminishing returns curve- The maximum benefit that each stat provides, including power pool size, melee damage bonus, spell damage bonus, hit points, and defense has been increased- Classes that use multiple stats for power pools have had their maximum power possible increased by up to +25% if they are high enough in both stats. This is meant to offset the difficulty of having to increase multiple statsAvoidance Skill- Skill caps have increased from [ 6 * Level ] to [ 6.5 * Level ]- Base Parry chance has been lowered from 10% to 5%- Base Deflection chance has lowered from 30% to 25%- Increases to avoidance skills now have diminishing returns similar to the changes made for mitigation/resistance. Players experience more gains in avoidance when further away from the cap, and less gains as they reach closer to the capAvoidance in Combat- Display: The way avoidance is displayed has changed. A value similar to mitigation is now used to show your overall avoidance. A tool tip displays details for those who desire more information.- Parry Check: (Base 5%, Chance increases with additional parry skill.) The chance to parry an incoming attack is modified by level and offense skill of the mob you are fighting. Note: A base 20% of parries turn into ripostes. (Modified by certain achievements)- Block Check: (Shield Required). The quality of the shield determines the block chance. Block is only modified by mob level and is not a contested roll vs. mob skill.- Deflection Check: (Monk / Bruiser only) Base 25%, Chance increases with additional Deflection skill. The chance to deflect an incoming attack is modified by level offense skill of the mob you are fighting.- Dodge Check: (Everyone) Base chance is determined by type of armor worn. Chance increases with additional Defense Skill and Agility. The chance to dodge an incoming attack is modified by level and offense skill of the mob you are fighting.and there is also <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=118481#M118481" target="_blank">this:</a>"Only level affects mitigation, the arrows up or down have no impact. Though, of course mobs with up arrows do more damage. If you have to make a choice between two pieces of equipment which have the same mitigation value the higher level one will be better against higher level creatures"I'm sure there is more, but my summary would be that Mitigation is still number for number more use than Avoidance.

[StevusX]

<P>also bear in mind that for templars raising avoidance is harder than raising mitigation as a rule.</P> <P>as plate wearers we now have a fixed 5% base for avoidance (the lowest) <STRONG>regardless of what we wear.</STRONG></P> <P>so increasing agility by say 20 stat points will give you much less of a practical return than sticking them into pretty much any other stat, particularly wisdom.</P> <P>a shield is the best bet for increasing avoidance - this counts as blocking which i believe is uncontested avoidance unlike the rest.</P>

[sabrexlan]

The avoidance vrs mitigation issue is yet another kick in the guts for clerics. I watch druids now stand up easily take a beating that would either interupt me constantly or drop me like a stone. Im not whining about druids but devs who aint thinking. The whole idea of having multiple classes is to give us diversity and balance through strengths and weaknesses. Templars have no root, fear, snare, pets or deagro. All our fights MUST be toe to toe with the mob. The majority of non-plate wearers always had means to distance themselve and "avoid" a toe to toe fight. So what do the devs do, reduce the effect of mitigation through diminishing returns, increase the advantage of avoidance and then give clerics a penalty to their starting avoidance. Many lvl 70 classes routinely kill heroics above lvl 62. Templars just need to continually cast heals to stay alive against the same mobs and then hope to run. Guys its not working!!! If I have to kill a 62+ heroic I get any other class to tank it. I never thought I would be duoing with a rogue to take adavantage of his tanking!! ability. The combat mechanics is getting crazy. Why reduce the ability of plate wearing clerics to solo let alone survive solo mobs while enhancing across the board most non plate wearers who dont stand toe to toe. (Let me not start on the subject of equipment progression. Im in KOS raid gear. Whats the point  improving my mit now?)

[Ciarr]

<P>while you can say that character with 10% avoidance is as good as character with 10%mitigation it doesnt work the same way if you think about it as an extra mitigation on the top of what you have already</P> <P>here is what I mean:</P> <P>if you have 50% mitigation and 10% avoidance adding 10% to mitigation is a lot more valuble than adding 10% to avoidance</P> <P>why?</P> <P>50%->60% it mean that damage taken was reduced to 80% (1-0.60)/(1-0.50)</P> <P>10%->20% is reduction to 88% (1-0.20)/(1-0.10)</P> <P>additionally your mitigation works all the time while avoidance if front arc only (unless you are a brawler)</P> <P>even if your mitigation reach high levels the return on it is quite high (even if it doesn't look like that just looking on percentages (e.g. 55%->56% reduction of damage to 97.7%)</P> <P> </P>