Templar equals instant Aggro

[Remann]

<DIV>Since EoF has arrived, I constantly get the question why are the mobs going straight for your all the time?  This question comes from both in guild tanks and out of guild tanks.  I to, have noticed that there is an increase in instant aggro.  Not only with Templars but for Inquisitors as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As an example last night while in a guild group, we had myself 58 Templar and a 57 Warden grouped up.  Just about every other pull the mobs would come straight for my templar and not once did our warden get aggro from the pull.  Question is, what buff is already on the tank that would cause that.  I am not casting any reactives or heals until after the tank has pulled and taunted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any other Templars notice this?</DIV>

[Gokol]

What I noticed is that I end up getting instant agro if I leave a reactive on the tank from the battle taken before the the next and the tank body pulls before the reactive runs out and get agro that way. Otherwise I don't see any other problems with this but it could be just me as well.

[Shakaar]

i noticed when i have grp reactive up before pull i get instant aggro<div></div>

[Occam]

<DIV>I have noticed that it doesn't seem to matter much whether the tank is pre-reactived or not. Sometimes the mobs just come straight at me regardless of whether I've got a reactive up or not. I plan to do a little experimenting tonight with buffs to see if it might not be that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, we've got it easy in comparison to mystics. My usual group includes a mystic, and so long as she's in the group, the mobs basically ignore me and go straight for her. This happens to her regardless of whether she's got a ward up or not. I'll post here if I find anything conclusive tonight.</DIV>

[Dra]

<P>Its the reactive leftover from the previous fight. Have to cancel them at the end of the fight before the next pull.</P> <P>I use ProfitUI Reborn because it shows the time remaining on the reactive spells in the maintained window.</P>

[Occam]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Drats wrote:<BR> <P>Its the reactive leftover from the previous fight. Have to cancel them at the end of the fight before the next pull.</P> <P>I use ProfitUI Reborn because it shows the time remaining on the reactive spells in the maintained window.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No, it's not. I know when I've still got a reactive up from the previous fight or not, and (as I previously stated) from time to time I get a whack from the incoming mobs when I do NOT have a reactive up. It doesn't take a UI mod to know how to do your job.

[thesilverf]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Occam wrote:<BR> <BR>No, it's not. I know when I've still got a reactive up from the previous fight or not, and (as I previously stated) from time to time I get a whack from the incoming mobs when I do NOT have a reactive up. It doesn't take a UI mod to know how to do your job.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>One thing that caught me recently was a heal over time proc.  Mark was still proccing on the monk from some wurm in DT and he pulled another set of wurms.  Mob comes in, one resisted taunt, Dead Templar.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I spouted out in vent about it to just pause a sec and make sure nothing was still proccing, ie no green numbers over your head.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other than that I haven't seen much of an aggro issue</DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV>

[StevusX]

<P>well - i have been getting a reputation in my guild recently as an aggro magnet :smileysurprised:</P> <P>Mobs ARE definately heading straight for healers much more. Seems to be programmed into the mobs imo, particularly in EoF instances.</P> <P>I have seen mobs run straight PAST the tank and hit me. And no i have NOT prewarded.</P> <P>Glad i'm a templar and can take the hits - for some healer types its very very dicey !</P> <P>Got to say though that i find it makes the game more interesting :smileywink:</P> <P>and at least i have a use for my previously unused deaggro spell Complacency !</P>

[Remann]

I'm wondering if it is glory of combat, since it remains on the MT until cancelled.  It's the only buff / augmentation that I can think of at this time that may cause the instant aggro.  I know it <STRONG>is not</STRONG> any reactives still being up.  Especially since we are taking small breaks at times and there is no reactive up.

[Momolicio]

Having experienced this a few times I just figured it was the puller coming into buff range, and I was appearing to have just buffed the puller./shrug least thats what I thought at the time. Now I am not so certain. I have had to use Confusing Babble (Gnomish hate reduction) more then I have ever had to use it due to Comp being on recycle.I am willing to bet one of our buffs has a shorter range and it is effecting agro. With the recent revelation of Unyieldings displayed proc rate being tied to our *The caster not the target* current weapon, I would bet there is some other carryover to buffs relating to us.For example:It could be 'Blessings' lined Temps are haveing an associative carried to the buff/spell that links to them due to the upgrade. This could be a deeper problem as it was instilled with the addition of the KoS lines but as the upgrades there where on spells that would already garner agro it was overlooked. Now we have new lines that tether us to the buffs we cast, along with the heals/reactives.<div></div>

[SG_01]

I havn't had this happen to me unless I accedentally aggro'd the mobs first (I have quite a reputation there). Anyhow, when the tank taunts/attacks for the pull it rarely to never happens that the mob goes after one of the healers first. However when bodypulling, without taunting (the tanks I play with usually taunt directly after the mobs get out of range of the other mobs, and before they reach the group) I guess more can go wrong.At any rate, maybe they have made them more intelligent in that aspect. I mean when you attack a group of mobs, would you not try to kill the healer first?

[Tash 1]

<DIV><FONT color=#cccccc size=2></FONT></DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT color=#cccccc>Thats strange I feel the total opposite. Aggro towards me has been much better since EoF. When they introduced the social aggro thing precasting reactives was the last thing a templar usually did before getting killed. This made it really hard for Clerics to keep tanks alive and a tremendous amount of timing. <BR><BR></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT color=#cccccc>After EoF I started to notice I didn't have to be so careful and now I precast both my reactives rather regularly. Maybee the tanks Im with has getting better or something has changed. I tested in Hof as well as in Den, Crypt and Obelisk. <BR><BR></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT color=#cccccc>Only time I get aggro is when my stone skin and shield ally happens to trigger at the two first attacks or I manage to get a 2 x 2000 hit melee attack at pull.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#cccccc size=2></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT color=#cccccc>/Tash </FONT></FONT></SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Tash 123 on <span class=date_text>11-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:20 AM</span>

[Mabes]

I have noticed in groups I tend to get aggro, but it's usually only for a couple hits till the tank gets it, and hey, at least our plate armor goes to use some :smileyvery-happy:

[RingleToo]

<P>I've also seen mobs head straight for me and definitely did not have any reactives cast on the tank or group. It doesn't happen often so I can't get a feel for why - maybe it is one of the buffs. Or maybe it's something the tank is or is not doing. It would help if we could shed aggro better.</P> <P>I personally find that it's far too easy for me to get aggro when healing especially when fighting multi-mobs. Heals seem to act like an AOE and every mob not specifically targeted by the tank will jump on me :smileytongue: The lot of the healer, I know, but considering how easy it is to grab aggro, I wish the devs would either give us more de-aggro spells or decrease the casting time of our harmony line. (Soothe rarely seems to work for me). </P>

[graxnip]

I've done about 6 or 7 EoF instances, and as an Inquisitor I havent noticed this problem.For us we either get aggro from a reactive that was left over from the previous fight, or if we have our mana sieve proc on the puller and if it goes off on pull, we get hit.Not sure what you templars are experiencing here.<div></div>

[Nari]

I cast Unyielding Benediction on our tank and a bunch of vampires came out of nowhere and beat on me!<div></div>

[Antryg Mistrose]

I've seen this a bit from 2 perspectives - SK & Templar.  Can't really comment on KoS as I haven't been there much, but in EoF especially in Mistmoore Castle and Obelisk it seems mobs are very selectively targetting priests.Obelisk playing a SK it was an inqusitor they kept going to.  They MAY have been precasting (I had graphics turned down so I couldn't see), but it certainly looked like the mobs didn't even hit me, but ran straight passed to the cleric.  Kinda useful in a way - taunt as they go passed and they end up nicely positioned<span>:smileywink:</span>In Mistmoore - No.  I was playing Templar and was not casting ANYTHING and the mobs go straight for me, and of course any adds go straight for a priest - often a druid, as their heals are always ticking.btw: I can't recall the last time (playing as a tank) that body pulls weren't necessary, so pre-casting heals/wards is risky.<div></div>

[Jida]

if the tank has stoneskin from UB up, and the mob hits the stoneskin.... you get aggro.. the stoneskin counts as full damage absorb, before mit.. so its like you just healed 3k.  the tank is unharmed and you gotta worry about surviving.

[Sokolov]

EoF introduced additional taunt resists from what I've heard.  Thus, it is more likely that a tank's first taunt is resisted, meaning any healer castings pre-ward/regens/reactives will be much more likely to gain aggro than before.<div></div>

[mcavellero]

<DIV>I have not noticed any aggro differences since EoF.  However, if there is one..at least we have plate armor!  =D</DIV>

[Nari]

<div><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:EoF introduced additional taunt resists from what I've heard.  Thus, it is more likely that a tank's first taunt is resisted, meaning any healer castings pre-ward/regens/reactives will be much more likely to gain aggro than before.<div></div><hr></blockquote>We hadn't entered combat yet!</div>

[StevusX]

<DIV>No precasts unless the tank asks for it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The tank body pulls - and the mobs come straight for me !</DIV> <DIV>I have seen them run straight past most of the group just to say hello.......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sure, the tank then generally has no problem taunting them off (well usually)</DIV> <DIV>but i am sooo glad i wear plate - hurrah !</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also getting aggro a lot more <STRONG>during </STRONG>fights - generally have to use my M1 Complacency when ever its up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have seen this happen to other healer types as well so its not just us....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I personally think this is a great change by soe - more intellegent mobs acting as we do - Kill the healer !</DIV> <DIV>Makes it more interesting and exciting imo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would like to see this sort of mob behaviour programmed in more frequently by soe,  Much more fun.</DIV> <DIV>Lets see some mobs have a grudge against say Casters or Scouts - muahahaha</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Momolicio]

I too would like to see a bit more cleverness on the mobs part. Such as healers trying to cure debuffs, etc.I did run into an interesting one.Brawler tanking. Pulling to group. He stopped an FD'd, way too many. No proc of Unyielding, my prefered suspect in this issue, and the mobs stopped for a sec then some reset and some came for the group. The group was a decent range away, so it was not proxy agro. Guess who they went for first.What I found most strange was that only half the pull came. SO to me that shows that whatever, if anything, is causeing us agro happened before half of them where agressive. Moreso the 'trigger' had to happen before the social aspect of agro occurs.The Brawler had to FD again after standing up to come save me as he was within proxy agro of the group that reset. So I am baffled by this.(Oh an I have zero into blessings right now, so thats not it as I was thinking.)<div></div>

[Occam]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Elmomo wrote:<BR></P> <P>What I found most strange was that only half the pull came. SO to me that shows that whatever, if anything, is causeing us agro happened before half of them where agressive. Moreso the 'trigger' had to happen before the social aspect of agro occurs.<BR></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>It could have been that you were within one of the group of mobs reset limit and just outside the other.</P> <P>I had an interesting and somewhat frustrating time in PoA last night. Everything was coming for me. I don't mean just mobs that we'd pulled, I mean mobs were literally coming out of the walls and attacking me, even when I was nowhere near the wall. More then once we were in one of the largest rooms with the only other mobs WAY on the other side. I cast one heal and every mob in the room suddenly agroed on me. Then when we spawned Drakknair, we were standing right where we always do, on the far side of the room beyond his agro range. He popped and came straight for me. If nothing else it made for an interesting night.  :smileytongue:</P>

[SG_01]

Maybe more of this behavious: Last night in a labs raid the mobs would persistantly slap the druid in the MT group when they got pulled. He didn't die, but it definitly was peculiar.

[Adal]

I am a level 29 Templar, new to the class, and I have been having this happen a lot. No buffs up. Not close to the mob and no spells cast, and the stuff just come for me, sometimes out of nowhere. I thought it was just how it was with templars since I have never played one before. I thought maybe the mobs were just smart and go for the healer first.

[Uilamin]

to avoid agro at the begining of a fight, make sure you have no retroactives up until the tank starts fighting.  Not when the tank starts to pull, but when the tank starts using their autoattack and abilities.The reason why you are getting agro is that the heal is going on the agro stack before anything else and the mob darts right towards you.<div></div>

[Occam]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Uilamin wrote:<BR>to avoid agro at the begining of a fight, make sure you have no retroactives up until the tank starts fighting.  Not when the tank starts to pull, but when the tank starts using their autoattack and abilities.<BR><BR>The reason why you are getting agro is that the heal is going on the agro stack before anything else and the mob darts right towards you.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Uilamin, you really should read the whole thread first before posting. Several people have stated that they have gotten agro with NO reactive up and even no buffs up.

[Uilamin]

hehe sorry i only read the first few and the last few.I am surprised then.  I know shamen and druids get this because of their group regen/wards buffs, but as a Templar I have never had this problem.<div></div>

[Occam]

Ok, I've noticed that it's fairly inconsistant. I'll go for a week without pulling agro, then I'll get it all night regardless of which zone I'm in. I wonder if it has to do with another class, like if there is some bug when we have ______ buff on the tank at the same time that ______ class has their ______ buff up. I'm going to start paying special attention to who's in my groups when this happens and what they're casting.

[Tash 1]

<DIV><FONT color=#cccccc size=2></FONT></DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#cccccc><FONT size=2>I stated in a previous post that I feel that the aggro towards me have gotten very much better even if I precast both my reactives.<BR></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#cccccc><FONT size=2>I still think that it’s the case but I have to admit that it is truth in the OP state wrote.<BR><BR></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#cccccc><FONT size=2>Last night we where raiding Labs I wasn’t in the MT group and had no reactives no shield not even a buff on the MT. I was standing among the casters close to the middle of them. </FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#cccccc><FONT size=2>MT pulls (No need for bodypull even) and the named with his buddies totally ignore him run right over to me kills me within seconds and after that they run over to the MT. <BR></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#cccccc><FONT size=2>Whole raid was very confused and somewhat amused to the strange happenings. Guess they just hate Templars.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#cccccc size=2></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#cccccc><FONT size=2>/Tash</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>

[Omega]

<div></div>Tanks pull with their body not a taunt, so if you have a reactive up  and tank gets hit backing up to group, you get x agro, tank has 0, you get mob.  It has always been this way.  That being said I have never, ever, ever pulled agro off a tank after his first taunt  (threat reducing aa's are worthless).I've also never pulled agro without a reactive up.  I think is wearing off, through timer or through hits, before you notice.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Omega03 on <span class=date_text>12-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:04 PM</span>

[StevusX]

<P>I think most of the people playing here probably have enough experience to know when a Reactive is still up :smileytongue:</P> <P>While that IS a common reason for getting initial aggro as posters have stated there also appears to be a relatively new "random" or "scripted" element that ensures mobs go for the healer first regardless UNTIL the tank taunts em off.</P> <P>For example - in Obelisk of Blight</P> <P>Group had been standing around for a couple minutes outside a door waiting for an afk to come back - so no way were any reactives up. Tank opens door, edges in and pulls first mob. Mob runs straight past tank, past the scout and whams me. Tank taunts and gets aggro back.....</P> <P>Example 2 - same place</P> <P>Group is hitting a a multiple mob with tank taunting away etc (good tank i have grouped with often) Mob turns on me, not the caster, not the scout.  i Have to use area deaggro (Complacency) pretty quickly.....     This is also happening much more frequently, maybe 50% of larger/harder fights.    Before Eof when i hit KoS dungeons i rarely pulled aggro and virtually never used complacency - it was on my "not used" hotbar.  Since Eof i have moved it to my "Use a LOT"  hotbars with heals/debuffs/cures.</P> <P>I now have a guild reputation as an aggro magnet !</P> <P>I like these changes though so its not a complaint - just a warning to people starting a healer !   Beware Aggro !</P>