Flame Retardant Opinion - (fine print: Poster makes no claims about retardability)

[Jaycen]

<div><div>After reading several posts in these Templar forums, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who feels that the templar just wasn't the same after the CU (LU13?). I played my 27 templar till a little bit after that and I was apalled at how the clerics were changed. I had always played a healer in other mmo's and wanted to do it again in EQ2. Anyways, after I felt like I was basically a spam healer with shiny armor, I dropped my templar and made up a wiz thinking if all healers were how the templar were, I wanted no more part of it. Forty six levels later and I still love my wiz. Our guild needs healers so I rolled a fury and I'm now 22 and lovin it!</div><div>If any of you templars have played before LU13 then you know that the templar has changed. IMO for the worse. I would love to dust off my templar again if they ever improve the class. Spending all that time in leveling (even though only to 27) and all the cash spent on good spells tells me I should miss my cleric but regrettably, I don't at all.</div><div>I guess my whole point of this was to say that healers can be a fun class, not just a utility for others. Bring back the templar love get more people excited about being healers. My fury has inspired me and hopefully the cleric will do the same for others soon.</div><div>For those of you that think your templar is the shiznit - Rock on! If you're not happy with a class what's the point of playin, eh?</div></div>

[Supernova17]

If you love your Templar so much, you would help us improve the class rather than posting this.Also, you rolled your newer characters from scratch, most likely after Lu13. You ditched your Templar and came back weeks / months ? later and find yourself unable to play the class effectively. When the changes occured, many Templars who are active and skilled today struggled for days and even weeks to adapt at higher levels.I'd sit down with my spell book, read through all the new effects / changes and re-think how you run your Templar.<div></div>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Supernova17 wrote:Also, you rolled your newer characters from scratch, most likely after Lu13. You ditched your Templar and came back weeks / months ? later and find yourself unable to play the class effectively. When the changes occured, many Templars who are active and skilled today struggled for days and even weeks to adapt at higher levels.<hr></blockquote>That is incorrect. I adapted to the playstyle new templar very fast, after all, it wasn't that different from old one. The thing was that the game changed too much around the templar which meant that people could do most of the quests solo, I soloed 90% of the time when I got my monk from lvl 34 to 60. But it also meant that templars were not among the one who could do those quests solo.Many people claim that if you wanted to do DPS, you shouldnät have rolled a priest. This does not fit the current state of furies though. Also there is no official description to back up that claim. Priests could just as well be the highest DPS (yes, the DPS tree usually linked is really false since templars are the only class that actually are in the  spot where mentioned there).And btw. supernova, I haven't seen you suggesting any improvements to templar class lately. All I have seen you do is troll forums by telling people to go away. So I suggest you do what you tell others who dont help the issue. bye bye.</span><div></div>

[Supernova17]

<span><blockquote><hr>Timaarit wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Supernova17 wrote:Also, you rolled your newer characters from scratch, most likely after Lu13. You ditched your Templar and came back weeks / months ? later and find yourself unable to play the class effectively. When the changes occured, many Templars who are active and skilled today struggled for days and even weeks to adapt at higher levels.<hr></blockquote>That is incorrect. I adapted to the playstyle new templar very fast, after all, it wasn't that different from old one. The thing was that the game changed too much around the templar which meant that people could do most of the quests solo, I soloed 90% of the time when I got my monk from lvl 34 to 60. But it also meant that templars were not among the one who could do those quests solo.Many people claim that if you wanted to do DPS, you shouldnät have rolled a priest. This does not fit the current state of furies though. Also there is no official description to back up that claim. Priests could just as well be the highest DPS (yes, the DPS tree usually linked is really false since templars are the only class that actually are in the  spot where mentioned there).And btw. supernova, I haven't seen you suggesting any improvements to templar class lately. All I have seen you do is troll forums by telling people to go away. So I suggest you do what you tell others who dont help the issue. bye bye.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>You call me, an active 60 Templar in a high end raiding guild who plays usually every day a troll, when you have quit the game several times and have shelved your Templar.I said many Templars, not all btw. The biggest things I had to relearn was my reduced ability to pre-cast reactives, lower reactive heal ammount brought inline with other healer wards / hots, which made stacking a must and actually keeping on top of things, refreshed heals, heal procs etc.I don't post anything about improvement to the Templar class becuase I only raid, and 9 times out of 10 I am the top healer. I made a Templar to heal, he does just that, and is very useful on raids. I don't care about soloing or flashy special abilities that mean jack to the true nature of our class, so I feel it would be wrong of me to suggest room for improvement.</span><div></div>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Supernova17 wrote:<span>You call me, an active 60 Templar in a high end raiding guild who plays usually every day a troll, when you have quit the game several times and have shelved your Templar.I said many Templars, not all btw. The biggest things I had to relearn was my reduced ability to pre-cast reactives, lower reactive heal ammount brought inline with other healer wards / hots, which made stacking a must and actually keeping on top of things, refreshed heals, heal procs etc.I don't post anything about improvement to the Templar class becuase I only raid, and 9 times out of 10 I am the top healer. I made a Templar to heal, he does just that, and is very useful on raids. I don't care about soloing or flashy special abilities that mean jack to the true nature of our class, so I feel it would be wrong of me to suggest room for improvement.</span><hr></blockquote></span><span>I haven't quit the game once so far. I have ended the continuous payment of my account and am still playing till my account expires. And yes, I call you a troll since you are one of the people who are trying to deny others to post here.And I say that many templars quit because the class was simply not fun to play, not because they couldn't adapt. Then again, there are lvl 60 templars who can't play a templar but think templars are fine. But they usually have another high level alt they play most of the time.And I do agree, one templar is very useful in raids. Point is that another is partly waste while other priests (druids especially) are good even if there are several of them since their direct heals are so much better than clerics. But if there are no other alternatives, even excess clerics will do even though the difference in direct heals is 50% in favor of druids.And since you don't care about soloing, again you are totally the wrong person to say others anything about their motives. As it is, 90% of the content is soloable for most classes. I have even seen a wizard to solo lvl 67^^^ named. Took him 4 attempts, but still he did it. As for my templar, the time it took him to kill that named was less that what my templar can solo a yellow con ^ mob. As for others, I can't even dream of killing an orange con with a down arrow.As for regular gameplay (=XPing), no one wants a templar (exept out of pity) in their group if they have a choice or they need 2 healers.</span><div></div>

[AzraelAzgard]

<div></div><p>We raid with 2 Templars most encounters Im top with MT grp Warden 2nd and other groups Templar 3rd.</p><p>Sometimes the other Templar comes 2nd but Im always top in healing.</p><p> </p><p>Direct heals, yeah Furies have an advantage with 3 spell lines over all other healers but it doesnt make us [Removed for Content], many many times the large Templar directs have saved a tank with a big 1.7k boost when the small fast Druid heals were just delaying death by seconds.</p>

[Timaarit]

And how many times have you wiped because templar heal was not cast because tank was already dead...<div></div>

[SatinyCh]

<div>If the tank was dead before you (the Templar) cast your big heal...then you need to look into some raid healing pracice. =)=)=)=)=)=)=)=)=)=)=)=)=)</div>

[Timaarit]

You mean before the first or the 20th?<div></div>

[Nari]

Don't worry about those "uber" templars who "are level 60 and raid everyday" yadayadayada ad nauseum.  The best solution to your problem really is to level and upgrade for now.  The class is great in the low 20s.  Once you get near 30, it isn't so fun until you hit 40, it gets better after that.  It's kind of lame, but that is the way it is.  You do need to adjust the way you play to get the most out of it, good luck.<div></div>

[Supernova17]

<div></div>This attitude is why I detest these boards. I keep hoping things will change.Why do many have the perception, "Oh, you're a raid Templar, you don't know anything other than raid healing and you're always the bad guy"Please, I have been there, done that and moved up a notch to raid with my class. Don't think for a minute I don't know how to function in solo, small group and full group scenarios.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Supernova17 on <span class="date_text">01-31-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:16 AM</span></p>

[Timaarit]

Again, it is not about not being able to do something. It is the feeling of being totally useless in soloing and grouping.<div></div>

[Kendricke]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>3devious wrote:Don't worry about those "uber" templars who "are level 60 and raid everyday" yadayadayada ad nauseum. <hr></blockquote><p>Many comments are made within these forums by disgruntled or otherwise upset Templars who feel that anyone who is higher level, has fabled gear, or who might typically feel the class is overall balanced are somehow wrong or ill-informed.  I'm responded to the above by 3devious specifically, but my comments are really couched against the idea of the comments in general made by many within this forum.</p><p>That I said, I think comments like the above are inaccurate, to say the least.</p><p>Many of those "uber" Templars who are "level 60 and raid everyday" aren't and don't.  What about those of us Templars who only raid occasionally, but spend the bulk of our time assisting guildmates, friends, or even total strangers with quests or groups?  What about those of us Templars who only raid occasionally, but spend a great deal of time duoing or joining in with small 2-3 person groups?  What about those of us Templars who spend significant amounts of time soloing as well as the occasional raid?</p><p>Then again, what <em><strong>about</strong> </em>those Templars who raid all the time?  Is it somehow beyond their knowledge to understand soloing or grouping?  Are they somehow less informed about such issues just because of their gear?  They can't possibly comprehend differences between fable-equipped Templars and other fable-equipped priests when they're out soloing or grouping?  You think these Templars never grouped after Live Update 13?  You think they don't understand the issues just because they don't agree with your point of view?</p><p>Just because someone has a different playstyle than yours, or because they may have a less cynical outlook on the class than you might, doesn't make their opinion less valid.  It certainly doesn't make <em>THEM</em> less valid for sharing it, either. </p><p>I've got a Templar in my guild who logs in once in a while, who likely won't see level 60 till the level cap is 80 or higher, and who may never ever go on a raid with us.  At the same time, I've got one of the best known raiding Templars <em>in the game</em> within my guild. Who has the more valid opinion on the class?  Are either of them wrong just because they both happen maintain positive outlooks on the class, and both enjoy playing as a Templar.  Should I tell them how wrong they are to feel we're relatively balanced?  Should I verbally browbeat them into feeling they don't know what they are talking about?</p><p>We're all Templars here.  Frankly, we don't agree.  We all have ideas on what we want, and sometimes those ideas are diametrically opposed.  That's fine.  That's diversity at its finest.  That's an opportunity for discourse and debate, not to bring someone down a peg.  We're not running for office here, and who has more "supporters" isn't relevant.  Issues are issues, and facts are facts.  We should all be working on bringing both issues and facts to the table, not merely on whether or not someone we disagree with has a right to bring those issues and facts up at all. </p><p>I play my Templar at least 10-20 hours a week - every week.  I have other classes, a few in Tier 6 even.  However, my pride and joy is still Kendricke, my Templar.  He doesn't solo as well as any of my other characters.  He doesn't throw out the big hits or smash for the big numbers.  However, none of my other characters - including my other priests - can get a group out of a hairy situation better than my Templar.  That's my truth in the matter.  Your own truth may vary...and that's fine. </p><p>Sure, I get some priviledges afforded me for working at Caster's Realm, just as Radar-X does over at Ten Ton Hammer, and just as Tamat does over at Ogaming.  In fact, Templars are lucky to have so many of our number on the staff of so many different sites.  However, our voices aren't heard any more than anyone else here, and we all started as "just players".  Bringing up issues - even those we might disagree with - is an excellent way to get noticed, particularly if you word your issues in such a way as to rise above the muck and mire of the mudslinging which tends to take place here so often.  I'll admit that I've gotten my own hands dirty more often than I'd like, and I'm sure more than a few of the rest of you can remember times you also posted thinking "<em>man...this'll <strong>really </strong>get his/her blood boiling, I bet</em>".</p><p>That's not solving issues.  Comments like the one I quoted above aren't solving issues.  It's not even bringing attention to the issues we do have.  It's just going to get the comments ignored. </p><p>There's over 10,000 posts made on these forums on any typical day.  Who has the time for all of that?  The developers?  The developers have stated - clearly - that when they start to see too much hate and venom, they simply skip the post. </p><p>Now, regardless of whether you like me or not, I've got a post up top of this forum that you can post suggestions and issues within.  Alternatively, Caethre also has a post up top of this forum that you can use for the same purposes.  Feel free to add your voice to whichever you feel more comfortable with.  That's going to raise visibility for your concerns.  Bickering about "ubers" versus "casuals" will not. </p><p> </p>

[Supernova17]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>3devious wrote:Don't worry about those "uber" templars who "are level 60 and raid everyday" yadayadayada ad nauseum. <hr></blockquote><p>Many comments are made within these forums by disgruntled or otherwise upset Templars who feel that anyone who is higher level, has fabled gear, or who might typically feel the class is overall balanced are somehow wrong or ill-informed. </p><p><font color="#66ff00">I started on the Isle of Refugee when the game launched. I put alot of time into my Templar, not just with gear, spells and such, but his reputation and soul. I was once level 1, I worked my way to 60 slowly and steadily. I have the time, the desire, the knowledge and a great guild to improve my character and improve my enjoyment of the game. These things don't make me greater or lesser than any other Templar, just different.</font></p>Then again, what <em><strong>about</strong> </em>those Templars who raid all the time?  Is it somehow beyond their knowledge to understand soloing or grouping?  Are they somehow less informed about such issues just because of their gear?  They can't possibly comprehend differences between fable-equipped Templars and other fable-equipped priests when they're out soloing or grouping?  You think these Templars never grouped after Live Update 13?  You think they don't understand the issues just because they don't agree with your point of view?<font color="#66ff00">I'll admit, my Templar really only sees action when being rolled out for a raid, but he is also my main who is the most well known of all my characters. I've known what it's like to be on the outside looking in. Before I started my raid career, I was a newbie Templar in a family type guild. We did all our heritages together, explored and xp'd together. We learned from each other, we learned from others. We tought others new things, we helped others when possible. We raiding people are not ignorant of the problems, we are not malicious power hungry demons or any other image we are painted as. I treat everyone I come across with respect, untill they give me reason to otherwise.</font><p>Just because someone has a different playstyle than yours, or because they may have a less cynical outlook on the class than you might, doesn't make their opinion less valid.  It certainly doesn't make <em>THEM</em> less valid for sharing it, either.</p><p><font color="#66ff00">Not snubbing here, but often times your raiding Templar brethren find quirks or bugs with spells etc others may have missed and will openly share and test them with other forum members. We do care!</font></p><p>Are either of them wrong just because they both happen maintain positive outlooks on the class, and both enjoy playing as a Templar.  Should I tell them how wrong they are to feel we're relatively balanced?  Should I verbally browbeat them into feeling they don't know what they are talking about?</p><p><font color="#66ff00">Aye, let them play their class and have fun. If they have problems impacting their efficency or enjoyment, they will come to the right people and ask questions.</font></p><p>We're all Templars here.  Frankly, we don't agree.  We all have ideas on what we want, and sometimes those ideas are diametrically opposed.  That's fine.  That's diversity at its finest.  That's an opportunity for discourse and debate, not to bring someone down a peg.  We're not running for office here, and who has more "supporters" isn't relevant.  Issues are issues, and facts are facts.  We should all be working on bringing both issues and facts to the table, not merely on whether or not someone we disagree with has a right to bring those issues and facts up at all.</p><p><font color="#66ff00">We're more than that. We're all customers paying for a game. We're all real people.</font></p><p>That's my truth in the matter.  Your own truth may vary...and that's fine.</p><p><font color="#66ff00">Strongly Agree. </font></p>There's over 10,000 posts made on these forums on any typical day.  Who has the time for all of that?  The developers?  The developers have stated - clearly - that when they start to see too much hate and venom, they simply skip the post.<p> <font color="#66ff00">The Dev's are probably like,</font></p><p><font color="#66ff00">"Holy crap, look at all those new posts in the Templar boards...""More power Mr. Scott!""I don't know how much longer I can hold her together!!"</font></p><hr></blockquote>Oh:Twenty bucks says the servers will be in double overtime on Thursday. <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></span><div></div>

[Kendricke]

<div></div><p>Thanks for the comments, Supernova.  It's nice to point out every once and again how we're all more alike than we are different.  :smileyhappy:</p><p> </p>

[SnowKnight]

<div></div>Group wise we are powerful healers, solo wise we suck. Enough said. My advice : If you plan on soloing a lot, dont even bother with the templar as it is now. Roll a DPS class of some sort, youll have much more fun.

[Lydiae]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Supernova17 wrote:<div></div><p>Please, I have been there, done that and moved up a notch to raid with my class.</p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>Raiding isn't moving up a notch from soloing, small groups or full group, it's just another option.  It's a lateral move.  You don't need to be the better than any other Templar to raid, you just need to learn the mechanics.  Fabled gear doesn't make one better either, it's just required to raid well.  If you don't need it to play the way you want, it's irrelevant. </p><p>If this wasn't meant to be snobbery, forgive me.  It's just a little annoying to be relegate to second class because one doesn't raid.</p>

[kenji]

<div></div><p>well...the reason i hate some raiders because they say, "i have been at this stage, adopted to raid now, as the balance fine at the raid line, we are a fine class"</p><p> </p>

[SnowKnight]

<div><blockquote><hr>kenjiso wrote:<div></div><p>well...the reason i hate some raiders because they say, "i have been at this stage, adopted to raid now, as the balance fine at the raid line, we are a fine class"</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>Come now we all know raiders are uber leet players, from whose [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] the sun shines out of, and entire servers of players are there to do their bidding...</div><div> </div><div>/sarcasm off</div><div> </div><div>Not all raiders are like that, but the few that are give the rest of us a bad name.</div>

[Supernova17]

<span><blockquote><hr>kenjiso wrote:<div></div><p>well...the reason i hate some raiders because they say, "i have been at this stage, adopted to raid now, as the balance fine at the raid line, we are a fine class"</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>Take a look at Kendrike's post, he sums it up very nicely.About moving up a notch to raid, I should clarify my meaning behind that.EQ2 is a Tier based game, I look at Solo - Group - Raid in a Tier system personally.You start out in this game all by yourself, you are solo.You begin to expore the world, meet new friends, join a guild, whatever you choose to do, you are now grouping.You have crossed all of Norrath, know every nook and cranie and every trick of the trade, you enjoy taking down the toughest creatures in the game, you are now a raider.</span><div></div>

[kenji]

<div>let me clarify , i sure know all comes from 1-60 in normal grouping, assume no 1 start from raid, all should know Templar well.</div><div> </div><div>however, some pure raiders consider their classes balance based on raid only , and ignore/bash others' issues pointed out on 1-6 men grp. their prove(parse) all based on raid only to define Templar is fine.</div><div> </div><div>why not spread to 2 teams, 1 stay in raid researching, and 1 stay in normal style researching, and do not bother to reply on other's side? =)</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Supernova17]

<span><blockquote><hr>kenjiso wrote:<div>let me clarify , i sure know all comes from 1-60 in normal grouping, assume no 1 start from raid, all should know Templar well.</div><div> </div><div>however, some pure raiders consider their classes balance based on raid only , and ignore/bash others' issues pointed out on 1-6 men grp. their prove(parse) all based on raid only to define Templar is fine.</div><div> </div><div>why not spread to 2 teams, 1 stay in raid researching, and 1 stay in normal style researching, and do not bother to reply on other's side? =)</div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote>/tone Calm, Open MindedIt's a good idea on paper, except those same raid Templars group all the time to help guildmates do quests or join small groups to do some farming or kill a quest mob etc.Raid Templars are not ignorant of class balance, we are however very good players to survive the demands placed on us, augmented with good gear, spell quality, power regen etc and group with equally equipped people in our guilds. I guess you can say, we are aware of the balance issues, but we don't feel it as badly when grouping as others might.I am a raid Templar myself. I will freely admit we are poor at soloing - and in group situations, we only offer slow and steady healing and the most powerful defensive buffs (Holy Redoubt: HP, Valor: HP-Mitigation, Symbol of Naltron: HP-Arcane Resists, Unyielding Benediction: Stoneskin, Divine Praetorate: WIS for resists) and defensive utility (Sanctuary: Immune to all stun/stifle/root etc, Reverance: Spend Power-Recover HP, Glory of Combat: Group heal proc, Involuntary Curate: Single target heal proc + trauma cure, Mark of the Celestial: Single target heal over time proc, Amending Fate: Group heal on death) of any healer since we are a defensive class.Let's take what we have and build on it. It will take everyone to agree on improvements or changes to get the ball rolling.The main concern with most of the posts in the forum relate to this:Lack of offensive buffs (which we should not have as a defensive class)Lack of offensive power (alternatives to improved nuke power have been suggested as some form of melee augmentation)Slow casting heals (even though we are intented to be slow casting healers, it seems to be slow enough to the point where it negatively impacts us, rather than balancing us)Our heals vs other classes (situational yes, but it is becomming more common that Cleric reactives per charge are unable to cope with large hits, even using reactive stacking, and then our slow casting spot heals are too slow to land in time to save the tank etc)</span><div></div>

[kenji]

<div>The main concern with most of the posts in the forum relate to this:Lack of offensive buffs (which we should not have as a defensive class)<font color="#ffff00">Agreed the lack part, but even offensive class has the base defensive buffs (Mitigation, Resist) </font>Lack of offensive power (alternatives to improved nuke power have been suggested as some form of melee augmentation)</div><div><font color="#ffff00">Agreed, read Caethre's post clearly shows that Templar doing only half of Fury dps, which both priest class listed as last Tier. 10~20% weaker is more acceptable, but not 50% weaker.</font>Slow casting heals (even though we are intented to be slow casting healers, it seems to be slow enough to the point where it negatively impacts us, rather than balancing us)</div><div><font color="#ffff00">Agreed. with the same HPS, same Power ratio, i dont see the benefit that Slow cast (indeed, some class has even better HPS while faster cast , such as BiTF, such as Inquisitor direct heal)</font>Our heals vs other classes (situational yes, but it is becomming more common that Cleric reactives per charge are unable to cope with large hits, even using reactive stacking, and then our slow casting spot heals are too slow to land in time to save the tank etc)<font color="#ffff00">not 100% sure what this mean. but should be same as Slow casting heals?</font></div>

[Supernova17]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>kenjiso wrote:<div>The main concern with most of the posts in the forum relate to this:Lack of offensive buffs (which we should not have as a defensive class)<font color="#ffff00">Agreed the lack part, but even offensive class has the base defensive buffs (Mitigation, Resist) <font color="#66ff00"></font><font color="#66ff00">And that is cause for concern, so going by this example, all Priests should have the same base offensive buffing power</font></font>Lack of offensive power (alternatives to improved nuke power have been suggested as some form of melee augmentation)</div><div><font color="#ffff00">Agreed, read Caethre's post clearly shows that Templar doing only half of Fury dps, which both priest class listed as last Tier. 10~20% weaker is more acceptable, but not 50% weaker.</font>Slow casting heals (even though we are intented to be slow casting healers, it seems to be slow enough to the point where it negatively impacts us, rather than balancing us)</div><div><font color="#ffff00">Agreed. with the same HPS, same Power ratio, i dont see the benefit that Slow cast (indeed, some class has even better HPS while faster cast , such as BiTF, such as Inquisitor direct heal)<font color="#66ff00">Slow casting hurts us. Faster casting would not unbalance us, seeing as even casting faster, would not change the fact that other Priest heals can reach similar HPS, faster cast and less power used. Even a 1 second decrease of total casting time would be a step in the right direction.</font></font>Our heals vs other classes (situational yes, but it is becomming more common that Cleric reactives per charge are unable to cope with large hits, even using reactive stacking, and then our slow casting spot heals are too slow to land in time to save the tank etc)<font color="#ffff00">not 100% sure what this mean. but should be same as Slow casting heals?<font color="#66ff00"></font><font color="#66ff00">Apologies, this is one of my raid issues. It's nice to know stacked reactives will only recover 800'ish health from a 7k piercing hit (which will come again in 2 seconds, so now I have to patch heal...) which I guess would be ok, since we have Shamans to lessen the total damage with wards and Druids to lay down regens and patch heals in rapid time. </font></font></div><hr></blockquote>Add another concern:Lack of stacking reactives with an Inquisitor (is this working as intended? I believe regens and wards do stack Mystic vs Defiler and Fury vs Warden, and if they do this would be an imbalance with the Clerics, not just the Templar class)</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Supernova17 on <span class="date_text">02-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:53 AM</span></p>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Supernova17 wrote:<div></div><span>Add another concern:Lack of stacking reactives with an Inquisitor (is this working as intended? I believe regens and wards do stack Mystic vs Defiler and Fury vs Warden, and if they do this would be an imbalance with the Clerics, not just the Templar class)</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Supernova17 on <span class="date_text">02-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:53 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Nope, wards dont stack with reactives nor HoT's. HoT's do stack with reactives though. HoT's wont stack with each other nor do wards and reactives. A reactive will cancel a ward and vice versa. This is for the single target spells. I am not sure about the group ones.</span><div></div>

[Supernova17]

<span><blockquote><hr>Timaarit wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Supernova17 wrote:<div></div><span>Add another concern:Lack of stacking reactives with an Inquisitor (is this working as intended? I believe regens and wards do stack Mystic vs Defiler and Fury vs Warden, and if they do this would be an imbalance with the Clerics, not just the Templar class)</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Supernova17 on <span class="date_text">02-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:53 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Nope, wards dont stack with reactives nor HoT's. HoT's do stack with reactives though. HoT's wont stack with each other nor do wards and reactives. A reactive will cancel a ward and vice versa. This is for the single target spells. I am not sure about the group ones.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>I must test reactive canceling a ward and vice versa. I do not believe it to be true, but I do not know for certian.</span><div></div>

[Mor]

<span><blockquote><hr>Supernova17 wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Timaarit wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Supernova17 wrote:<div></div><span>Add another concern:Lack of stacking reactives with an Inquisitor (is this working as intended? I believe regens and wards do stack Mystic vs Defiler and Fury vs Warden, and if they do this would be an imbalance with the Clerics, not just the Templar class)</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Supernova17 on <span class="date_text">02-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:53 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Nope, wards dont stack with reactives nor HoT's. HoT's do stack with reactives though. HoT's wont stack with each other nor do wards and reactives. A reactive will cancel a ward and vice versa. This is for the single target spells. I am not sure about the group ones.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>I must test reactive canceling a ward and vice versa. I do not believe it to be true, but I do not know for certian.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>To the best of my knowledge, wards and HoTs do stack correctly.  I will retest this when I have the chance.  If wards and reactives are not stacking correctly, you should /bug it (and put something in the Spells forum as well.  </span><div></div>

[Kendricke]

<div></div><p>They certainly seem to stack for me correctly and consistently when I group with Sortilege, one of our Mystics.  At no time have I witnessed a single instance of my spell being cancelled because she's cast her wards.  In fact, we're often in our main tank group on raids together, and both cast pre-pull reactives and wards together.</p><p> </p>

[Andu]

<div></div>I am certain wards stack with reactives. When I group with a friend mystic there is like a delay before my reactive works - which is the period of time the ward is absorbing damage. Once it drops the reactive starts to work.

[Timaarit]

Well last time with our defiler, I precast my single target reactive and then group reactive. And then they both ended at the exact same moment long before expiring. That was also the time when the defiler cast his ward. Also another visible effect was that if tank was not taking any damage due to wards,  as soon as I cast my reactive, MT started to take damage. I doubt I had such a great timing for 20+ times during the raid.<div></div>

[Supernova17]

Shaman wards don't cancel reactives, another Templar or even an Inquisitor do.There is also a bug that if a Defiler has his group ward up, and recasts it before it expires, the ward fails to absorb damage.<div></div>