Templar Performance and Levels

[Zabumt]

<DIV>So, I was kicking back in an xp group tonight chain-pulling epicx2s in Clefts making a Warden resort to nukes and backup heals because I was keeping up with heals with little problem.  And I was thinking... "You know, back at level 53, I don't think I could solo heal a group in here."  Then I got to thinking that some of the critics of our class might experience groups that are a little out of whack for their level.  And that could be the reason why some people are unhappy with their class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And before that, our guild raided Lockjaw.  My third or fourth Lockjaw raid with this guild.  My first, I was level 53.  No matter what I tried to cast to keep the group up after LJ's big AE half the group might die including myself.  My last run at 56 and I was able to keep my group in mostly good health throughout the encounter (only had one death in my group because of my stupidity and the member's level hehe).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess what I'm getting at is that we get higher in level (56+) we really start to be able to fend off these high damage encounters.  And now that I see my two new single-target insants coming at 57+, I can add even more healing outside of a main tank group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, don't get me wrong.  I think we need some raid work.  Outside of a main tank group on a raid, I'm stuck with two instant heals (and my single-target reactive but I try not to overwrite the MT Templars single-target reactive if I can help it) and my debuffs.  Unless we're dealing with a manageable AE where I can heal the damage rather than watch my group die in one hit.  But, as I've progressed through my 50s I've watched myself go from sometimes struggling to keep my groups alive against challenging content to being able to kick back and casually heal like before the combat revamp.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any other Templars notice this change for themselves?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zabumtik wrote:<BR> <DIV>So, I was kicking back in an xp group tonight chain-pulling epicx2s in Clefts making a Warden resort to nukes and backup heals because I was keeping up with heals with little problem.  And I was thinking... "You know, back at level 53, I don't think I could solo heal a group in here."  Then I got to thinking that some of the critics of our class might experience groups that are a little out of whack for their level.  And that could be the reason why some people are unhappy with their class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And before that, our guild raided Lockjaw.  My third or fourth Lockjaw raid with this guild.  My first, I was level 53.  No matter what I tried to cast to keep the group up after LJ's big AE half the group might die including myself.  My last run at 56 and I was able to keep my group in mostly good health throughout the encounter (only had one death in my group because of my stupidity and the member's level hehe).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess what I'm getting at is that we get higher in level (56+) we really start to be able to fend off these high damage encounters.  And now that I see my two new single-target insants coming at 57+, I can add even more healing outside of a main tank group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, don't get me wrong.  I think we need some raid work.  Outside of a main tank group on a raid, I'm stuck with two instant heals (and my single-target reactive but I try not to overwrite the MT Templars single-target reactive if I can help it) and my debuffs.  Unless we're dealing with a manageable AE where I can heal the damage rather than watch my group die in one hit.  But, as I've progressed through my 50s I've watched myself go from sometimes struggling to keep my groups alive against challenging content to being able to kick back and casually heal like before the combat revamp.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any other Templars notice this change for themselves?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Templar problems do not lie in their ability to heal. They are decent (although not the best IMO) healers. The problem comes from other than healing what does a Templar bring. You have other healers with better buffs, other healers with better healing, other healers with better debuffs, and all healers have a better ability to deal damage. So what exactly does a Templar bring to the table other than average healing? </P> <P>The answer IMO is not much. </P>

[kenji]

actually Templar is 4th (or 5th...inquisitor better HPS) due to one group heal... Fury 3, Warden 3, Mystic 2...the reasons to put a templar on non-dps group is very limited...slow direct heal, really low offensive buffs, lack of grp heal... if there are other priests to choose, i wont put a templar in a raid <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[OlaeviaTraisharan]

<DIV>Yeah I am finally post-50 and worked my butt off to get there so I could do guild raids on weds and saturdays. Well unfortunately I get there, Saturday night rolls around, and an officer told me that the guild had too many healers and that I wouldn't be able to squeeze in on the raid until I was 55+ and even then, I'd have to fight against the other seasoned healers to get in on the raid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can only assume they didn't want me there because I honestly can't bring anything to the table other than a couple of big heals. I really felt crappy all night about it.</DIV>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OlaeviaTraisharan wrote:<BR> <DIV>I can only assume they didn't want me there because I honestly can't bring anything to the table other than a couple of big heals. I really felt crappy all night about it.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I've turned away Templars on raid night.  It's not because they don't bring anything to the table.  It's because once you get critical mass on healers showing up, that's that.  I generally don't need more than a handful of tanks.  I don't typically need more than 5-8 healers.  Honestly, once I get four Templars showing up, I don't require a fifth typically.  Even then, I'm going to give first crack to the higher level, more active raiders...especially if it's not a raid we've done more than a few times previously.  </P> <P>If you've got 30 people showing up for a 24 person raid force, then you're going to have a full group's worth of adventurers sitting it out.  Who do you choose?  The answer's simpler than you'd think...and often not nearly as easy as you'd hope.  </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P>

[Nari]

Exactly, Zabumtik! It does get much better as you level, but I still wonder why I have to grind through a bunch of levels that aren't much fun to play to get to the point where I am ready to put the game up? <div></div>

[Supernova17]

The best raid force is one of each sub-class to form up a team of 24 active raiders. This is rarely possible, so most guilds make do with what they have. All throughout DoF raiding, I have never seen the need for more than 1 of each healing class and all of them have a roll. Templars are powerful MT or 2nd Tank healers and our defensive buffs (which are far greater than your precious Fury's junk buffs with only the Mystic/Defiler on somewhat the same level of defensive) seriously augment the survivability of a tank. If you don't believe this, try a difficult, level appropriate raid without Clerics and see what happens. Seriosuly, I hate this Templar bashing. We are a powerful class, with a place in the MT and 2nd Tank groups at all times. I have respect for my fellow healer guildmates, but the Wardens and Fury typically end up in the dps groups and only ever see the tank groups for resist buffs because other healers are in fact stronger, contrarty to popular belief. I can't wait for all this flavor of the month crap to end and the bandwagon folks move on to something else. The only change I think a raid Templar needs is better cross raid healing. If you won't give us an unlinked heal Sony, then perhaps allow our Focused Benefaction and Reverance (seeing as Back into the Fray at the same level is cross raid) to go across raid, especially since you're upping the power of Reverance (after nerfing it thanks!). <div></div>

[SatinyCh]

<P>Yeah, you guys must have no idea what it's like to actually raid the high end if you're still spewing crap like this. Let's take a little look:</P> <P>Templar max single target raw HP (Valor, Naltron, Holy Redoubt at M1) - 1796hp</P> <P>Inquisitor max single target raw HP - 1250ish (master 1s)</P> <P>Mystic max raw hp/pow - 1059hp/738pow (master 1s)</P> <P>Defiler max raw hp/pow - 1867hp/492pow (master 1s)</P> <P>(Druids buff like 321 HP with their resist/hp buff at m1) - they give the largest boost in power + wis/int</P> <P> </P> <P>We typically have Templar + Warden + Mystic/Defiler for MT group.</P> <P> </P> <P>Clearly, your choices are somewhat limited if you want to have a good MT make up. My MT can get 12,000hp with our setup. Defilers and Templars give largest single raw HP buffs, while Mystics are on par because they can give an extra 130ish (or so?) stamina. That of course depends on how much self buffed stamina your MT has. And just so you're all clear: Templar + Inquisitor does NOT stack. Mystic + Defiler does NOT stack. Fury + Warden does NOT stack. Please stop saying that Templars don't have as much of a purpose, I can still heal for tons. You are probably just doing something wrong.</P>

[Xaax]

chain-pulling epicx2s in Clefts making a Warden resort to nukes and backup heals because I was keeping up with heals with little problem. <DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I wish there was more content at this level. content that is challenging really allows the templar to shine. I would love to see more zones that provide a challenge and get away from this solo everything path SoE is taking. Other then Clefts and Cazels I have yet to see much content that I and my wifes zerker can do alone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yeah, you guys must have no idea what it's like to actually raid the high end if you're still spewing crap like this. Let's take a little look</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think you just made a good point. While there is a strong plae for a single templar to play in all raids there is no seconday role at all. I can see a reason to have 5 furys in a the last group slot pushing DPS but I really doubt you will ever see a raid leader consider a group of 5 templars pushing out what 30 DPS in a 5 minute fight =/</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thus things happen like:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Yeah I am finally post-50 and worked my butt off to get there so I could do guild raids on weds and saturdays. Well unfortunately I get there, Saturday night rolls around, and an officer told me that the guild had too many healers and that I wouldn't be able to squeeze in on the raid until I was 55+ and even then, I'd have to fight against the other seasoned healers to get in on the raid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While I am sure no raid leader really wants a full group of healers for the 4th group, you make due with what you got or you call off the raid until latter.  Be nice to have more then one place for the Templar other then to buff the MT and cast Sanctuary =/</DIV></DIV>

[kenji]

<P>ya really depends, but i will choose Inquisitor, Defiler, Warden for MT group.<BR><BR>the reason to choose Inquisitor due to better offense (i mean pure DPS buffs,which dont affect haste to get riposted) and their Chilling Inquest / Convert - 200 more heal every cast. highest rate to have power regen.<BR><BR>Defiler, self power regen buffs (although hurt himself, but with a Warden it is not a issue <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)<BR><BR>Warden....better defensive buffs than fury (and fury way more uber in DPS grp buffing), thats it.</P> <DIV>Templar..unless u need that 500 HP for MT, or i wont waste a spot in 24 men raid grp. expecially those DPS needed raid. My skill maybe needed, but definitely not my templar <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>