Templar Strengths in a Post-Revamp Norrath

[Kendricke]

<DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Preface:<BR></STRONG><EM>This guide is neither meant as a definitive work on the subject, nor as a completed volume.  It's intended as a collaborative work in progress, a place to share tips and tactics on the subject.  </EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Introduction:</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>With the Combat Revamp of September 2005's Live Update 13, Templars came to realize that previous tactics did not always work, and certainly not with the same efficiency.  Without dwelling too much on the changes themselves (there are dozens of posts within this forum for that purpose), this discussion hopes to shed some light on ways to maximize Templar potential in the Post-Revamp environment.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The tips shared within this discussion will hopefully bring to light some tactics which can help current Templars to play toward our class's considerable strengths.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV>

[Kendricke]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div><font size="5" color="#ffffff"><strong>Grouping:</strong></font></div><div> </div><div> </div><div><strong><font size="4" color="#ffffff">Overview:</font></strong></div><div>As a support class, Templars simply work better in groups.  Though it's possible for Templars to solo effectively, it is within groups that we truly begin to shine in my experience.  As a primary healer, Templars seem to have more tools to assist a group during combat than any other priest class in my personal opinion.  We're geared heavily toward healing and supporting melee classes, which is where much of our true strength lies.</div><div> </div><div><strong><font size="4" color="#ffffff">Group Composition:</font></strong></div><div>In my experience, an ideal Templar group will consist of three or more melee based classes.  The larger the group, the more effective the Templar's abilities and spells. </div><div> </div><div><strong><font size="4" color="#ffffff">Specific Blessings, Augmentations, or "Buffs":</font></strong></div><blockquote dir="ltr"><div><strong>Redoubt - </strong><font size="1" color="#ff9900"><em>An augmentation that increases the health pool and melee offensive skills of the cleric's ally.</em></font>L16 RedoubtL30 Pious RedoubtL44 Sacred RedoubtL58 Holy Redoubt</div><div>With a solid "main tank" fighter ( or "MT&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, the Templar should place a Redoubt line enchantment upon this group member to better maximize that fighter's physical attacks and straight line mitigation. </div><div> </div><div><hr></div><div> </div><div><div><strong>Protectorate - </strong><font size="1" color="#ff9900"><em>An augmentation that increases the strength and wisdom of the templar's ally. This spell does not require any concentration, but can only be maintained on a single ally.</em></font></div><div>L26 ProtectorateL40 PraetorateL54 Divine Praetorate</div></div><div>The Templar may also choose to place a Protectorate line spell on the same fighter (rather than him or herself) to add additional STR to the fighter.  If the fighter happens to be a crusader or if the group expects to fight more spell casters, this spell becomes even more useful to the fighter as opposed to the Templar.</div><div> </div><div><hr></div><div> </div><div><strong>Glory of Combat</strong> - <font size="1" color="#ff9900"><em>Augmentation that grants the templar's ally a chance of healing the entire group on each successful attack.</em></font>L47 Glory of Combat</div><div> </div><div>Glory of Combat is spell which imparts a "proc" or procedure that lists as a "5% chance to trigger" a group-wide heal on a successful melee attack.  At Adept I level, this spell heals each group member for 327 health.  Without getting too deep into the mathematics behind proc rates, suffice it to say that slower weapons and faster weapons are normalized over 3 second bursts to have roughly equivilant proc rates per minute of use.  In other words, weapon speed should not overly factor into determining who receives this spell within a Templar's groups. </div><div> </div><div>A new discussion can be started to point out specifically which factors help determine the best trigger rates for this spell, but for now, I generally recommend higher level melee classes which will be using "autoattack" style attacks more frequently.  Typically, this can include the MT but also include higher level scouts and/or specifically rangers (for various reasons, bows have a relatively high proc rate). </div><div> </div><div>In heavy melee groups, using multiple copies of this spell can assist greatly.  In groups with multiple Templars, work to cover as many melee classes as possible for maximum coverage.  I've personally used this spell on many occasions in groups which consisted only of scouts and myself to assist in healing.  On several occasions, I've been able to cover all incoming damage by use of only this spell.</div><div> </div><div><hr></div></blockquote><div><strong><font size="4">Specific Curses, Impairments, or "Debuffs":</font></strong></div><div><strong><font size="4"></font></strong> </div><blockquote dir="ltr"><div><hr></div><div><strong>Amending Fate</strong> - <font size="1" color="#ff9900"><em>An impairment placed on an opponent that will grant Health to the Templar and allies when the opponent is slain.</em></font></div><div>L20 Amending FateL34 Redemptive FateL48 Atoning Fate</div><div> </div><div><hr>  </div><div><div><strong>Sign of Weakness</strong> - <em><font color="#ff9900"><font size="1">Places an impairment on the target that pacifies them, preventing them from making normal combat attacks. The pacify effect will break if the target receives any damage</font></font></em>L21 Sign of WeaknessL35 Sign of DebilityL49 Sign of Infirmity</div><div> </div><div><hr>   <div><div><strong>Disgrace</strong> - <font size="1"><em><font color="#ff9900">Impairment that reduces the physical damage resistance of the target.</font></em></font>L24 DisgraceL38 ReproachL52 Admonishment</div><div> </div><div><hr> <div><div><strong>Mark of Princes </strong>- <font size="1"><font color="#ff9900"><em><font color="#ff9900">Impairment that is cast on an opponent that decreases their divine resistance and has a chance to heal over time an ally that successfully attacks this opponent in melee</font>.</em></font></font>L32 Mark of Princes</div><div>L46 Mark of KingsL60 Mark of the Celestial</div><div> </div><div><hr> </div></div><div> </div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div><strong>[work in progress -  more to come]</strong></div><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Kendricke on <span class="date_text">02-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:32 AM</span></p>

[Xerxess]

if you find the tank dying...Just spam heals...thats a good tactic =P

[AzraelAzgard]

<DIV>Yeah spam your 2 heals then wait 6 and 12 sec <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Nari]

<div></div>*snicker* Xerxess You can't spam anything with those recast timers. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I hope you also decide to cover duoing and small groups as well.  I recognize that it isn't the best situation, but when you only hunt with your friends, that happens sometimes. I would also like to know what do you guys do? Do you give the Protectorate type spell to the tank or hoard it for yourself to have more power? I have a dysfunctional relationship with my husband's earth pet and often am loathe to sacrifice my precious wisdom so that it can hit a little harder. Edit: Looks like AA got in faster than I did. -_- <div></div><p>Message Edited by 3devious on <span class=date_text>12-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:06 PM</span>

[Andu]

<P>Kendricke, can I suggest you remove the words "Whilst it is possible for Templars to solo effectively" and replace them with something that at least acknowledges that we are pretty poor at it. </P> <P>You may think we can solo effectively but this thread (which I think is a great idea) will almost certainly degenerate into flames and bickering about it.</P> <DIV>Just my suggestion.</DIV>

[Rommie10-284]

<div></div>Duoing with my Guardian, she gets the STR buff, as she needs every point of power.  Duo Fights generally go - Cast Group reactive, tell bad guy they don't deserve to live while waiting for one tick of OOC power, cast the rebuke-line spell.  (Lately, I've been using the mez on annoying spellcasters as the opening spell, and it does help.  You can actually learn something from the forums <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> )If it's a tough fight, the sequence is single-reactive/mark, and keeping both the group and single reactives up together to increase health, instead of keeping level.  The direct heals are generally emergency use only - if I'm having to use them, the chances are good I'm going to lose the fight, so it's usually better to run away before it's too late.  Use cures and maintain debuffs as is possible.  I usually don't have time to zap anything with all that other activity. Use the panic reactive when in panic <span>:smileywink:Easier fights, it's just mark/fate, using the single reactive or a direct heal where needed.  Otherwise, it's zapzapzap and cure.   Of course, all the while I'm using my hammer into a baddie's backside who's in hate with the Guardian.  If people are pounding on me, it's usually the Guardian that gets them turned around, but once in a while my hate-reducer does the trick.  Since the LU18 change that made the Guardian Maddening Defense line a 75% slow instead of a root, it's a lot easier to leave it on, and that's solved most of the over-healing hate problems.  There's a bane to the Guardian-Templar combo, and that is any Cleric ^^^ or higher baddie.  I can't put out enough damage to overwhelm his reactives, and he has so much mana that my ladies are the ones to run out first.  Since it's a ^^^, it hits hard enough that it's a no-win scenario, even at the lowest green. Fighting groups generally runs the same as a single target, since the Guardian can keep all of them pointed at her.  It's just more opportunity for using Fate spells.</span><div></div>

[Whizbang]

<P>Um, two things i guess:</P> <P>1)  Haven't I seen something like this before?  The layout/format looks very familiar with another Kendricke post.  Or maybe it was someone else's.  They all start to look the same when you're reading a couple hundred posts in a 9-hour day.</P> <P>2)  Can we start with Solo and then move to Grouping?  I think we all know how we function/perform in large groups.  What I would like to see is something in regards to our Soloing abilities and how we can work towards being an effective Solo'er.</P> <P>And, as another poster stated, I would rephrase your statement that Templars solo effectively.  I don't know about you blokes up there in the 50+ Club, but down here in the lower echelons, speaking from my own experiences, i don't solo worth a smeg.  I've seen slugs that move faster than I kill.</P>

[Nari]

IAWTC ^ <div></div>

[Timaarit]

<P>**REMOVED DUE TO INAPPROPRIATE CONTENT**</FONT></P><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>12-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:19 PM</span>

[Cowdenic]

<P><SPAN class=time_text>Templars strengths are only in raiding. Templars are the Suck at soloing. Templars are outshined in any group setting save a tank and 4 melee DPS. Templars are completely defensive in nature and that mob is a semi. You can pick up your shell a quarter mile down the road.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Templars have zero strengths, they do nothing best. Others buff better, debuff better, heal better, and Damage better. Actually that is a misstatement. We get interrupted and fizzle better than anybody. But then what do I know. I am only a level 60 Templar with mostly master spells and Legendary/Fabled gear. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Cowdenicus on <span class=date_text>12-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:26 AM</span>

[Mew]

Templars can solo. I spend most of my time soloing. We are just slower about it, is all.  I don't use damage shield potions.  I don't use regen potions.  And I used my harvested rares to make player made vanguard armor.  Works fine for me.  Also, you have 3 heals you can spam - two direct heals and a group heal (even if you are only using it on one person).  In an emergency I do it.  And don't forget to refresh the reactive during each direct heal spam cycle.  I have kept more mages alive that way than I can count - a few tanks, too.<div></div>

[Kendricke]

<div></div><p>Updating an old guide.  Feel free to participate if you have something constructive to add or critique.</p><p> </p>

[Xaax]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Mewse wrote:Templars can solo. I spend most of my time soloing.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>I honestly feel sorry for you if this is true. While a Templar can solo it is easer to and probally faster to level another to 60 then to solo a level with a Templar. Tempalrs got the shaft with solo'n then again solo'n wouldnt mean so much if the group mobs in the game were not so easy to kill.</p><p>On the bright side, Templars do not need a full group, you can do just about anything with a tank. My wife plays a zerker and we have been taking out named ^^^ up to our level with little problem. We finish quests quickly, the amulet of the sword of ro took us only a couple to three hours from start to finish. While solo'n realllly sux with a Templar duo works well.</p>

[Tor]

Symbol of Corruption is a debuff I still use often.Bounty of the Virtuous is a heal that I use when patch healing or low on power.Sacred Shield is a DS that I use in Gates lol.Some spells not often thought of..Toral Khan60 Templar/AlchemistThe TribunalButcherblock<div></div>

[Andu]

I always enjoyed this thread and found it hugely ironic that King Ken started something entitled "Templar Strengths" and then was completely unable to finish it, or even point to one thing we excel at <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>It's going to ruin it now if you go ahead and point out that we are good at a few things (not many - but some).<div></div>

[Kendricke]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Anduri wrote:...and then was completely unable to finish it...<hr></blockquote><p>I know this gets overlooked quite often, but I'm actually a relatively casual player.  In the "real world", I'm a Project Manager for a technology firm.  Long work weeks are the norm, and I'm often putting in 10-12 hour shifts on a typical day.  In addition, I'm considered to be on-call at any time of day or night, and it's not uncommon for me to receive frantic calls on my cell at 5 in the morning, or at 11 at night.  In the past 2 weeks alone, I've been "on the clock" at midnight three separate times. </p><p>When I'm not working, I'm typically trying to spend time actually running my guild, as I've done for over seven years now.  I spend on average at least 10 hours each week just handling administrative or organizational issues regarding my guild's leadership.  On top of that, I'm the Senior Interviewer at EQ2 Caster's Realm.  You may think that may not take much time, but it's a rare day that I'm not spending at least an hour or so working on an article, trying to get some questions put through the process over at SOE, or attending some online function at the last minute when Arthais can't make it (as I did last night).  When I'm not doing all that...I try to actually play.</p><p>Now, I do like to work on guides like the one here regarding strengths of a Templar.  I wouldn't have started the guide if I didn't feel it had merit, and if I didn't feel the Templar class is strong.  We are.  Just because you think I can't think of strengths doesn't mean that's the case.  It could just be that creating guides like this takes time - inordinate amounts of it.  Sometimes, I simply don't have as much time as I'd like, and projects I truly want to spend time on get put by the wayside. </p><p>Then again, nothing's stopping you or anyone else from putting in similar efforts.  I highly encourage more members of the Templar community to put in the work to build something constructive from time to time, to try to help and assist other clerics.  You may not agree with posts like this or "The Controlling Templar", but I've gotten a lot of good feedback from both.  Obviously there exists a segment of Templars who don't want to log into these forums to see "Furys rock and Templars suck" posts all over the place.  Sometimes - just sometimes - players come to the class forums to find out helpful hints on how to play the class.  :smileywink:</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Andu]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Anduri wrote:...and then was completely unable to finish it...<hr></blockquote><p>I know this gets overlooked quite often, but I'm actually a relatively casual player.  In the "real world", I'm a Project Manager for a technology firm.  Long work weeks are the norm, and I'm often putting in 10-12 hour shifts on a typical day.  In addition, I'm considered to be on-call at any time of day or night, and it's not uncommon for me to receive frantic calls on my cell at 5 in the morning, or at 11 at night.  In the past 2 weeks alone, I've been "on the clock" at midnight three separate times. </p><p>When I'm not working, I'm typically trying to spend time actually running my guild, as I've done for over seven years now.  I spend on average at least 10 hours each week just handling administrative or organizational issues regarding my guild's leadership.  On top of that, I'm the Senior Interviewer at EQ2 Caster's Realm.  You may think that may not take much time, but it's a rare day that I'm not spending at least an hour or so working on an article, trying to get some questions put through the process over at SOE, or attending some online function at the last minute when Arthais can't make it (as I did last night).  When I'm not doing all that...I try to actually play.</p><p>Now, I do like to work on guides like the one here regarding strengths of a Templar.  I wouldn't have started the guide if I didn't feel it had merit, and if I didn't feel the Templar class is strong.  We are.  Just because you think I can't think of strengths doesn't mean that's the case.  It could just be that creating guides like this takes time - inordinate amounts of it.  Sometimes, I simply don't have as much time as I'd like, and projects I truly want to spend time on get put by the wayside. </p><p>Then again, nothing's stopping you or anyone else from putting in similar efforts.  I highly encourage more members of the Templar community to put in the work to build something constructive from time to time, to try to help and assist other clerics.  You may not agree with posts like this or "The Controlling Templar", but I've gotten a lot of good feedback from both.  Obviously there exists a segment of Templars who don't want to log into these forums to see "Furys rock and Templars suck" posts all over the place.  Sometimes - just sometimes - players come to the class forums to find out helpful hints on how to play the class.  :smileywink:</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>Way to completely miss the point. Do you understand the word "ironic". My post was not intended to be taken as a criticism of you - lord knows you're on these boards enough.I certainly didnt ask for an autobiography.</span><div></div>

[Giallolas]

<div></div><div>It may surprise you that I'm a business owner, specifically an insurance agency with several employees.  Working as a manager or owning your own business with all of the headaches involved are equally time consuming.  Where you pursue even more articles to write for various online gaming institutions, I'm a Boy Scoutmaster, a little league wrestling coach, and very active in my church.  I'm a husband and father of four and still the leader of my guild and a raiding templar.</div><div> </div><div>We all are busy people.  We all are trying to do what we can to pay and play.  You tire of the criticisms to your hard work and these excellent guides that you post.  But you have shown equal intolerance for the points of views of others.  I have never seen as many snide remarks and fault-finding as I have seen you, Kenny, offer on these forums.  You measure everyone to a level of sophistication and intelligence that even you do not display.</div><div> </div><div>I've been watching, reading, and posting on these forums for the last 4 weeks or so now, and I find the Templar forums to be exhausting.  Watching as I have for these weeks I've noticed a consistency.  At just about every major schism and every major debate on our forums, you're right in the middle.  I don't know if people hunt you down and despise you, but it's an interesting fact.  In insurance the numbers never lie.  If a client is always getting into accidents or turning in claims regardless of their fault, they are a bad risk.  There is something in their character and their habits which do not fit well into society.  You're always getting into "accidents" in these forums.  You appear a bad risk to me.  You do not appear to fit into the "society" here.</div><div> </div><div>I'm not opposed to various opinions, but the numbers are glaringly clear.  You come off so well to people too.  I started reading your posts and in your initial statements you do so well.  I used to think you actually knew what you were talking about.  But once you complete your well-thought out statements, if anyone questioned all of your hard work you come down inordinately on them.  If we're going to clean up this "viper's nest", it needs to start with those of you who post the most here...and that appears to be you Kenny.</div><div> </div><div>Didn't know where else to post this, but it does help to bump your post once more,</div><div> </div>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote:<p>I know this gets overlooked quite often, but I'm actually a relatively casual player.  In the "real world", I'm a Project Manager for a technology firm.  Long work weeks are the norm, and I'm often putting in 10-12 hour shifts on a typical day.  In addition, I'm considered to be on-call at any time of day or night, and it's not uncommon for me to receive frantic calls on my cell at 5 in the morning, or at 11 at night.  In the past 2 weeks alone, I've been "on the clock" at midnight three separate times.</p><hr></blockquote>Funny how you still have time to write your non-informative posts. The ones you use to critisize other peoples playstyles if they differ from yours.Well, maybe this is because you cant think of any templar strengths in post-revamp norrath. Like said, our only strength now lies in raids and you dont raid that much.</span><div></div>

[StrollingWolf]

<div></div><p>I would just like to remind everyone that eventhough you may feel very strongly on a topic, it will serve no purpose to discuss your feelings about eachother. Discussing your opinions on eachother is neither on topic or going to make the thread go in any direction but a flame war. So please in th future try to keep the posts dealing with the topics at hand and not poke at eachother, that not only applies to the actual wording of the post but also the tone you take with responses to other posters.</p><p> </p><p>Thank you.</p>

[Timaarit]

I sincerely hope that this applies to all posters equally.<div></div>

[ginfress]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Timaarit wrote:I sincerely hope that this applies to all posters equally.<div></div><hr></blockquote>When reading this: "<font color="#ff0000">that not only applies to the actual wording of the post but also the tone you take with responses to other posters</font>." i would say he means all posters.

[StrollingWolf]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Timaarit wrote:I sincerely hope that this applies to all posters equally.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Absolutely. We do not allow anyone to poke at eachother, and whether we say something publicly or privately, people will be warned if it continues.

[Whizbang]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>StrollingWolf wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Timaarit wrote:I sincerely hope that this applies to all posters equally.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Absolutely. We do not allow anyone to poke at eachother, and whether we say something publicly or privately, people will be warned if it continues.<hr></blockquote><p>*pokes at the wolf*</p><p>hmmmm.....soft....</p>

[Xerxess]

<div>necro!</div><div> </div><div>Anywho...don't we have something like this already on the stickies?</div>

[Kendricke]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Xerxess wrote:<div>necro!</div><div> </div><div>Anywho...don't we have something like this already on the stickies?</div><hr></blockquote><p>Thanks for the constructive addition. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Kendricke on <span class="date_text">02-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:41 PM</span></p>

[Xerxess]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Xerxess wrote:<div>necro!</div><div> </div><div>Anywho...don't we have something like this already on the stickies?</div><hr></blockquote><p>Thanks for the constructive addition. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Kendricke on <span class="date_text">02-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:41 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>I dunno if that was suppose to be sarcastic or what but...this post did die over a month and half ago.</p><p>Also we have we Templar Spell progession on the stickies that says the samething. I was just asking really no need to be rude over it?</p>

[Kendricke]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Xerxess wrote:<div></div><p>Also we have we Templar Spell progession on the stickies that says the samething. I was just asking really no need to be rude over it?</p><hr></blockquote><p>The point isn't for spell progression.  However, as I'm spending time on it, I'm posting the spells which are useful (similar to Controlling Templar format).  If you have something to add, that's great - it really is.  I'd love to get some meaningful dialogue going on ways to help those Templars who claim the class is broken, useless, or otherwise worthless. </p><p>I'm not saying that Templars who aren't enjoying the class must be doing something wrong.  However, it is my belief that concentrating on the positive aspects of our class, as opposed to constantly and consistently pointing out only the negatives can help many of those Templars having a hard time adjusting, even now months later.</p><p> </p>

[Timaarit]

You mean that someone should make 'Templar Weaknesses in a Post-Revamp Norrath' thread? I think there are plenty of those and it is your bad if you commented those in a fashion that failed to open a proper dialoque.<div></div>

[Archill]

Kendricke, could you add <b>Prostrate(39)</b> to the list?  I find this spell to be very helpful when I need to throw on the two heals. With a 6.7 stun, I can hold the mob from attacking and cast <b>Greater Amelioration </b>and <b>Greater Restoration</b> before the stun wears off. Finishing up with Greater Intercession if need be.On average pulls(for a 46 templar, mind you... I have no experience with the higher levels as of yet.) I start off by casting <i>Reproach, Redemptive Fate, Greater Intercession, and Involuntary Healer</i>. If the encounter is still alive I go about making sure Trauma/Arcane/Poison are all cured.. I don't like using my smite/strike line in full groups as it takes to long to cast. I've been in CT since 40 and have been able to debuff the 48 level mobs with the debuffs/stuns, so it has been working well so far.Thanks for the nice and well layed out information.<div></div>