Is what im hearing true?

[Banshee505]

<DIV>Hey,</DIV> <DIV>Basically i planned on making a Templar myself. Love the Clerics in D&D so natrually i thought they would be similar in EQ2. However the general impression i get is Templars are well to be blunt "pathetic" you have the worst damage in the game. I heard a Templar say a fury did 10 times as much damage. I have also heard that Templar is rubbish in pvp and gets no better heals than that of a Fury. So whats the advantage? Plate armor in exchange for ten times the damage? Thats a bad deal!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is there any advantages and postives to templars? If not are there any changes getting made?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mean no offense to anyone im a newbie deciding which healer to play...from the looks of things Templar isnt a good choice.</DIV>

[Redorio]

<P>Well D&D clerics (3rd edition) mlee and nuke pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good, very valid class, but all D&D classes are pretty blanced (depsite the whinny munchkins, hehe)</P> <P> </P> <P>EQ2 though is aMMORPG, there has to be balance to make groupign worthwhile, plus they cna't all use D&D's system!...healers sacrifice damage output, mages are really eaisly killed etc. The system is flawed because unlike pen and paper games you cannot be creative, there's limits ot the game engine, etc.</P> <P>Templars heal GREAT. They don't solo very well at all, they most certainly CAN solo but it's very slow compared to a mage or scout.</P> <P><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <p>Message Edited by Redorious on <span class=date_text>12-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:18 AM</span>

[Caethre]

OOC.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banshee505 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hey,</DIV> <DIV>Basically i planned on making a Templar myself. Love the Clerics in D&D so natrually i thought they would be similar in EQ2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Templars in EQII are nothing like clerics in D&D in any real way.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However the general impression i get is Templars are well to be blunt "pathetic" you have the worst damage in the game. I heard a Templar say a fury did 10 times as much damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Our damage is pathetic, that much is true. A Fury can typically solo at at least 2 or 3 times the rate of a Templar, sometimes more. Furies can also get to where they are going faster (SoW from low level, 20% run-speed boost, and Cheetah at higher level, 56% [at Adept3] run-speed boost for 30s every 4mins). Also, after level 45, Furies get group-invis, so they can get to places Templars cannot get to alone.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>I'd not say it was fair to call Templars "pathetic", other than damage, however. Templars can heal groups very well indeed. As long as you don't want to deal any damage at all, you are fine.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have also heard that Templar is rubbish in pvp ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Since I have no interest in PvP whatsoever, I have no idea on this one.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and gets no better heals than that of a Fury.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>At this time, the helaing power of Furies and Templars are approximately the same. There are some long threads on this forum where some feel one is better, others feel the other is better. However, of course, Furies do a LOT more damage, that is not a matter of discussion.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So whats the advantage? Plate armor in exchange for ten times the damage? Thats a bad deal! Is there any advantages and postives to templars?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>You didn't say how you intend to play. If you are going to go for a large guild, with fixed groups and regular raiding of instances and multi-groups encounters, you'll do ok as a Templar, as you will not need damage. The other end of the scale, if you intend to solo a lot, and join small groups where damage might be useful, I'd strongly advise against Templar. I have levelled up a Fury to play because of this.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> If not are there any changes getting made?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Who knows. Many of us hope so.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mean no offense to anyone im a newbie deciding which healer to play...from the looks of things Templar isnt a good choice.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Felishanna [53 Templar]<BR>Annaelisa [51 Fury]</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Takeo1]

<P>Roll one. Live the...fun. Love it, then join the fray aye? Always room on the boards for one more.</P> <P> </P> <P>Lates.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Jukk]

Basically, the healers balance made all healer classes heal the same amount.Unfortunatly, other things where not balanced (such as damage etc).Templars heal just as good as other healers, but the other healers can do much more.<div></div>

[rollando]

<P> If you are going to play with a regular group, then a templar is OK.</P> <P> If you do not want to miss 70 % of the content the game has to offer - very immersive solo quest lines, exploration, etc ... - by all means forget about a templar and roll a fury. </P>

[quetzaqotl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banshee505 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hey,</DIV> <DIV>Basically i planned on making a Templar myself. Love the Clerics in D&D so natrually i thought they would be similar in EQ2. However the general impression i get is Templars are well to be blunt "pathetic" you have the worst damage in the game. I heard a Templar say a fury did <STRONG>10 times as much damage</STRONG>. I have also heard that Templar is rubbish in pvp and gets no better heals than that of a Fury. So whats the advantage? Plate armor in exchange for ten times the damage? Thats a bad deal!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is there any advantages and postives to templars? If not are there any changes getting made?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mean no offense to anyone im a newbie deciding which healer to play...from the looks of things Templar isnt a good choice.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Hmm thats misinformation right there and Caeth you as a fury shouldve known better and Im surprised you didnt correct him on the dmg part? well am I surprised not really to be honest.</P> <P>A fury doesnt do 10 times more dmg than a templar thats VERY exaggerated a fury in solo mode does about 200-250 dps on avg while templars do around 110 dps and a fury after an encounter is around half down his/her mana not sure how mana intense templars fight to be honest.</P> <P>Invis totems can be bought for a little price so everyone can go wherever he/she wants furies get the invis at lvl 45 so the little fee for a totem can be easily paid at that lvl (also fury invis breaks when anyone in group uses a spell or manastone of sprints or uses the vessel of fyrun).</P> <P>Same goes for sow totems(24%)/horses sow totems are faster that sow 20% runspeed, templars get odyssey which is an extra call home and can be quite useful tho many people will tell you it isnt ah well.</P> <P>Templars are more set on defensive buffing add more hp and get some lotto proc heals.</P> <P>So dont go with the hype and make a balanced choice what do you want to do in this game and go with what suits you best, I chose my furies over a year ago while they werent "hot" furies were rockbottom in the healing tree together with some shamans, but I always liked playing one as it suited my playstyle: do dmg add dmg and heal.</P> <P>Healers were moved more in line with basic healing and they are still in the process to get everything more balanced out in the sec abilities so Id go with the class you think would suit your playstyle instead of going with the hype flow of the moment.<BR></P> <p>Message Edited by quetzaqotl on <span class=date_text>12-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:26 AM</span>

[Caethre]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> quetzaqotl wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Hmm thats misinformation right there and Caeth you as a fury shouldve known better and Im surprised you didnt correct him on the dmg part? well am I surprised not really to be honest.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Anna can regularly get up to 250dps solo, yes, thats about right, but Feli is more like 85dps at absolute max, more usually less (from the few parses friends have done).</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>But yes, I did correct him. I said two or three times as much, sometimes more. Ten is certainly completely wrong.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>As for how much mana is left after an encounter, that almost completely irrelevant for soloing, since out of combat power regen is MUCH MUCH faster with a good drink than in-combat regen. Burst damage and quick kills are FAR more efficient in terms of rate of XP gain for soloing than very slow killing.</FONT></P> <P>Invis totems can be bought for a little price so everyone can go wherever he/she wants furies get the invis at lvl 45 so the little fee for a totem can be easily paid at that lvl (also fury invis breaks when anyone in group uses a spell or manastone of sprints or uses the vessel of fyrun).</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Invis totems are a pain in the *^(^&. Sorry, I do things with Anna I would not dream of trying with Feli. Just a fact, simple-cast Invisibility is WONDERFUL. It has set me free!!!</FONT></P> <P>Same goes for sow totems(24%)/horses sow totems are faster that sow 20% runspeed, templars get odyssey which is an extra call home and can be quite useful tho many people will tell you it isnt ah well.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Same again. As for Odessy, lol, Ive cast it like twice in a year. I don't need it, you can have it lol. It has no impact on soloing at all, unless you are wanting to gate back to town more often than once an hour, and I never do. SoW and Invis "for the win", as they say.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>If you really think otherwise, why are you not playing a Templar? I think we both know the answer.</FONT></P> <P>Templars are more set on defensive buffing add more hp and get some lotto proc heals.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>That is correct, of course.</FONT></P> <P>So dont go with the hype and make a balanced choice what do you want to do in this game and go with what suits you best, </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Agreed. Choose as you think best. Always. But he asked for advice, and I gave mine. Right now, for soloing and small groups, the best choice is Fury. For hardcore groups and raids, its an even call.</FONT></P> <P>I chose my furies over a year ago while they werent "hot" furies were rockbottom in the healing tree together with some shamans, but I always liked playing one as it suited my playstyle: do dmg add dmg and heal.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Good for you. But that is history now, of course.</FONT></P> <P>Healers were moved more in line with basic healing and they are still in the process to get everything more balanced out in the sec abilities so Id go with the class you think would suit your playstyle instead of going with the hype flow of the moment.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>This is a good point. Things may change. On the other hand, they may not. We will see.</FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[SG_01]

Then I'll be the one to let you out of the dream that PvP templars are bad... In duels versus a fury, no-one won all night, so we decided to quit trying <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caethre wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Invis totems are a pain in the *^(^&. Sorry, I do things with Anna I would not dream of trying with Feli. Just a fact, simple-cast Invisibility is WONDERFUL. It has set me free!!!</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Since Live Update 16, I've had a Totem of the Chameleon on my utility hotbar at all times (right beside my rings, stones, and potions).  You can move it anywhere - ANYWHERE in your inventory and the hotkey remains the same.  If you use it up and buy a new one, the hotkey remains the same.  On Guk server, there are dozens for sale at less than 10 silver right now.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caethre wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Same again. As for Odessy, lol, Ive cast it like twice in a year. I don't need it, you can have it lol. It has no impact on soloing at all, unless you are wanting to gate back to town more often than once an hour, and I never do. SoW and Invis "for the win", as they say.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I've burned through two full stacks of Odyssey stones in the past few months.  Any group or guild which utilizes writs or runs multiple hunts or raids in any given night will soon find itself with members who require a port.  In addition, as a group leader, I've actually used Odyssey situationally to remove members from my party who had gone AFK for a bit too long or in bad spots (yes...we could have just dropped them, but I'm not quite <EM>that</EM> mean-hearted).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think it bears repeating regarding writs or other quests:  Especially when you're burning through some quests which require a bit of transportation, it's nice to be able to just port back to Qeynos Harbor more than just once an hour.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as spirit of the wolf, I can't recall ever requesting it.  Spirit of the Wolf totems go for 5 silver on my server when our guild artisans haven't packed the guildbank with another supply.  Of course, for me it's usually easier just to call a horse or put on Journeyman Boots.  That may not be possible for you, yet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My advice?  Listen to those Templars who actually still play their Templars as a primary...if you're looking for advice from those who actually play the class.  We've got some powerful tools and abilities to those who know how to utilize us.  Obviously Templars aren't built for every play style...and frankly, priests in general aren't.  If you're looking for a class full of damage and invisibility and speed utility...go with a scout.  If you're looking for a good all-around control healer, then Templar might work out great.  If you're not sure, play a few different classes till you find one you're happy with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The bottom line is you need to discover what you enjoy and go from there.  Since the revamp, I've had several members who switched classes and found themselves happier.  We've had a Troubadour change to Guardian (he'll hit 60 this week, we think); a Berserker change to Conjuror (he'll hit 50 this week...soloed about all of it, too); and a Monk switch to Templar (he just hit 51).  They weren't happy with what they had, but they changed up and now they're thrilled and logging in night after night.  Find out what you like and go from there.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[NosmokIng]

Well I play Templer primary.. in fact I dont even have a single other class on my account... I play 3  / 5 hours a time, 3 - 5 days a week. so I do have the right to say.. Level 32 guild...Oydessy - Once a month. Healing... we're slieghtly above in most situations but mostly about balanced.DPS.. we are the worst and slowest in the game.  Two equal stat healers in the same drifters instant.. Templer is way way behind.Other healers have a great advantage in useful -try running out of potions in Poets or something..Or as Jukken rightly said:-<font color="#ffff00">Basically, the healers balance made all healer classes heal the same amount.</font><font color="#ffff00"></font><font color="#ffff00">Unfortunatly, other things where not balanced (such as damage etc).</font><font color="#ffff00"></font><font color="#ffff00"></font><font color="#ffff00">Templars heal just as good as other healers, but the other healers can do much more.</font>Which I think is a fair enough assumption.<div></div>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caethre wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Invis totems are a pain in the *^(^&. Sorry, I do things with Anna I would not dream of trying with Feli. Just a fact, simple-cast Invisibility is WONDERFUL. It has set me free!!!</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Since Live Update 16, I've had a Totem of the Chameleon on my utility hotbar at all times (right beside my rings, stones, and potions).  You can move it anywhere - ANYWHERE in your inventory and the hotkey remains the same.  If you use it up and buy a new one, the hotkey remains the same.  On Guk server, there are dozens for sale at less than 10 silver right now.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caethre wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Same again. As for Odessy, lol, Ive cast it like twice in a year. I don't need it, you can have it lol. It has no impact on soloing at all, unless you are wanting to gate back to town more often than once an hour, and I never do. SoW and Invis "for the win", as they say.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I've burned through two full stacks of Odyssey stones in the past few months.  Any group or guild which utilizes writs or runs multiple hunts or raids in any given night will soon find itself with members who require a port.  In addition, as a group leader, I've actually used Odyssey situationally to remove members from my party who had gone AFK for a bit too long or in bad spots (yes...we could have just dropped them, but I'm not quite <EM>that</EM> mean-hearted).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think it bears repeating regarding writs or other quests:  Especially when you're burning through some quests which require a bit of transportation, it's nice to be able to just port back to Qeynos Harbor more than just once an hour.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as spirit of the wolf, I can't recall ever requesting it.  Spirit of the Wolf totems go for 5 silver on my server when our guild artisans haven't packed the guildbank with another supply.  Of course, for me it's usually easier just to call a horse or put on Journeyman Boots.  That may not be possible for you, yet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My advice?  Listen to those Templars who actually still play their Templars as a primary...if you're looking for advice from those who actually play the class.  We've got some powerful tools and abilities to those who know how to utilize us.  Obviously Templars aren't built for every play style...and frankly, priests in general aren't.  If you're looking for a class full of damage and invisibility and speed utility...go with a scout.  If you're looking for a good all-around control healer, then Templar might work out great.  If you're not sure, play a few different classes till you find one you're happy with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The bottom line is you need to discover what you enjoy and go from there.  Since the revamp, I've had several members who switched classes and found themselves happier.  We've had a Troubadour change to Guardian (he'll hit 60 this week, we think); a Berserker change to Conjuror (he'll hit 50 this week...soloed about all of it, too); and a Monk switch to Templar (he just hit 51).  They weren't happy with what they had, but they changed up and now they're thrilled and logging in night after night.  Find out what you like and go from there.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hey Kendricke, Holler at me when you who have not retired your Templar hits 60 ok.

[Kendricke]

<P>Someone came to the Templar forums asking how Templars are right now.  I noted that some of the advice offered to the requester is coming from players who've admitted on these forums to barely playing their Templar for quite some time.  I thought it might be better if the person seeking advice received some from those Templars who are actually playing the class.  </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote>Kendricke wrote:<p>Someone came to the Templar forums asking how Templars are right now.  I noted that some of the advice offered to the requester is coming from players who've admitted on these forums to barely playing their Templar for quite some time.  I thought it might be better if the person seeking advice received some from those Templars who are actually playing the class.  </p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>Right. And how much better is templar compared to situation 5 weeks ago? 4 fixes to our spells, one nerf (ok, now it is as intended, but still it was a nerf) and one improvement? Where are the improvements that would bring back all the templars that quit?</span><div></div>

[Sokolov]

<span><blockquote><hr>Caethre wrote: <blockquote><div></div><p><font color="#ffff00">Invis totems are a pain in the *^(^&. Sorry, I do things with Anna I would not dream of trying with Feli. Just a fact, simple-cast Invisibility is WONDERFUL. It has set me free!!!</font></p></blockquote> <div></div><hr></blockquote> You really should give totems another try.  They are no different than casting a spell except for having to carry a couple in your inventory.  Food/drink is far more troublesome in my opinion (if you don't want to waste money).</span><div></div>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE>Kendricke wrote:<BR> <P>Someone came to the Templar forums asking how Templars are right now.  I noted that some of the advice offered to the requester is coming from players who've admitted on these forums to barely playing their Templar for quite some time.  I thought it might be better if the person seeking advice received some from those Templars who are actually playing the class. </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Right. And how much better is templar compared to situation 5 weeks ago? 4 fixes to our spells, one nerf (ok, now it is as intended, but still it was a nerf) and one improvement? Where are the improvements that would bring back all the templars that quit?<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The combat changes have been live approximately 3 months.  Anyone who quit after only trying them out for <DIV>one third or even half of that time wouldn't be someone I'd say has the full and comprehensive view of the class as it currently stands.  There are Templar players who did not like the changes.  I fully accept and even respect that.  I can respect that some of you no longer like or play the class.  I think it's great that some of you have found a class that works better for your playstyles. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, I still feel that someone coming to the Templar forums looking for advice on the Templar class may want to actually hear from players who are currently playing as Templars. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please note that not once did I tell the person to avoid listening to anyone that doesn't play as a Templar.  Please note also that I only offered up my personal opinion in the form of advice.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Kendricke on <span class=date_text>12-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:42 AM</span>

[Viane]

<DIV>Personal opinion-healing, I still heal decently.  I really don't solo heal anymore, I can if i choose to except on some of the 63^^^ that hit ridiculously hard.  Healing is just that, decent, not great not bad.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Solo-dps is nil.  I took my 40 fury out yesterday (second time since revamp).  I was pulling yellows with 1/4-1/2 power and nuking them down (500-900) damage with strike in no time.  Much fewer interrupts and barely even had to heal myself.  No way I'd even consider pulling a yellow con mob on my temp without being full power. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Stuns, I like the addition.  Mezz is well not so great.  Fighting green^^^ in clefts the other day for an update of some sort, pretty easy in a group of full 60s, decided I'd mess around and play chanter.  The warlock finally sent me a tell that I was messing  up his dps and please stop mezzing  :smileywink:  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Basically, templars are now, in my opinion, a decent healer with little else to add to a group. A lot of the solo quests are not soloable for templars.  Soloing in itself is nightmarishly slow.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As Ive stated before, my templar is basically sidelined now for raid only situations, as she simply is not enjoyable to play anymore.  On the bright side, I started a swashy and she seems fun :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: btw chameleon totems go for 3-10g each on my server and I easilty went through 2 per night when my temp was more active...dont assume they are as cheap on one server as they are everywhere else</DIV><p>Message Edited by Viane on <span class=date_text>12-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:03 AM</span>

[Caethre]

OOC.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR> <P>Someone came to the Templar forums asking how Templars are right now.  I noted that some of the advice offered to the requester is coming from players who've admitted on these forums to barely playing their Templar for quite some time.  I thought it might be better if the person seeking advice received some from those Templars who are actually playing the class. <BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>And perhaps the reasons that they are not playing their class very much are highly relevant to the questions being asked?</P><p>Message Edited by Caethre on <span class=date_text>12-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:25 PM</span>

[Caethre]

OOC.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sokolov wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR>You really should give totems another try.  They are no different than casting a spell except for having to carry a couple in your inventory.  <BR><BR>Food/drink is far more troublesome in my opinion (if you don't want to waste money).<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You are right on both counts, and I should, I had ignored totems (due to their annoyance in general). </P> <P>When I do feel inclined to play Templar again (and I'm sure it will happen, I am still a cleric in my heart, not a druid, despite the Templar class feeling annoyingly weak to me at the moment due to the balance issues, and the Fury class by contrast being both relatively powerful <U>and</U> great fun), probably after SoE have at least improved things a little, it is something I must investigate further. It still won't even touch simple-cast group-invis, of course, but it must be better than nothing.</P>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caethre wrote:<BR>OOC.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sokolov wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR>You really should give totems another try.  They are no different than casting a spell except for having to carry a couple in your inventory.  <BR><BR>Food/drink is far more troublesome in my opinion (if you don't want to waste money).<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You are right on both counts, and I should, I had ignored totems (due to their annoyance in general). </P> <P>When I do feel inclined to play Templar again (and I'm sure it will happen, I am still a cleric in my heart, not a druid, despite the Templar class feeling annoyingly weak to me at the moment due to the balance issues, and the Fury class by contrast being both relatively powerful <U>and</U> great fun), probably after SoE have at least improved things a little, it is something I must investigate further. It still won't even touch simple-cast group-invis, of course, but it must be better than nothing.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>There are times I use totems even in groups with scouts or Furies casting group invisibility simply because I don't have to worry about staying near the scout or Fury - especially in situations where the group needs to split up.  Honestly, it's no more annoying than casting a spell that has a component cost - both the spell icon and totem icon sit neatly on your hotbar.  The only difference is one requires the foresight to purchase it or otherwise acquire it in advance.  At less than 10 silver, the cost is typically negligible...especially at higher ranks.  In addition, lower level Furies don't have access to group invisibility anyway - in which case, the totem comes in handy for both Furies and Templars.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Timaarit]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote:The combat changes have been live approximately 3 months.  Anyone who quit after only trying them out for <div>one third or even half of that time wouldn't be someone I'd say has the full and comprehensive view of the class as it currently stands.  There are Templar players who did not like the changes.  I fully accept and even respect that.  I can respect that some of you no longer like or play the class.  I think it's great that some of you have found a class that works better for your playstyles. </div> <div> </div> <div>However, I still feel that someone coming to the Templar forums looking for advice on the Templar class may want to actually hear from players who are currently playing as Templars. </div> <div> </div> <div>Please note that not once did I tell the person to avoid listening to anyone that doesn't play as a Templar.  Please note also that I only offered up my personal opinion in the form of advice.  </div> <p>Message Edited by Kendricke on <span class="date_text">12-12-2005</span> <span class="time_text">07:42 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Well, fact is that they did play templar after LU13. They still are not happy with any of the 'fixes'. So keep your opinion to yourself, they comments are just as valid as yours even though they are not currently playing the templar. My advice to anyone choosing a healer, choose anything else but a cleric. You'll be a lot happier. So to op, yes, what you are hearing is true.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Timaarit on <span class=date_text>12-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:29 PM</span>

[Banshee505]

<P>Wow it seems i stirred the hornet nest! Sorry about that!</P> <P>Well im still a newbie and to be honest the healer that appealed to me was a cleric , The others just dont seem very Dark elfish do they? Well not for me!. Its a real shame i was hoping for a more positive response...but most people seem very disheartened and fed up.</P> <P>Maybe just roll a Beserker untill they fix up Templar! Surely with such a disheartened group of players changes are coming.</P> <P>Thank you for your replies</P> <DIV>(yes i was going to go over to Qeynos for rp...plus the city is way nicer i hear)</DIV><p>Message Edited by Banshee505 on <span class=date_text>12-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:52 AM</span>

[Sokolov]

I play a Dark Elf Defiler and it fits quite well <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Grimhamm]

<DIV>When I'm asked about my templar these days, I tell people if I were to do a healer all over, the templar class would be the last one I would pick.  But that's based on what I find fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Templars are, according to the number crunchers on this forum, modestly better than other healing classes in group heals.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, if you plan to spend most of your time in groups/raids and are content to do little more than heal, by all means, join the templar class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By the way, what you get out of heavy plate armor and thundering hammer blows will fall - I'm guessing - far below your expectations.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are looking for an effective player in the "holy warrior" style, you may want to look at the paladin class.  My paladin guild mates are not starting new characters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll trust you will have the wisdom to listen to both those who love the challenge of today's templar, as well as those who have decided to move on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Grimhammer on <span class=date_text>12-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:54 PM</span>

[Cowdenic]

<P>Well let me tell you, I am 2 instances away from 60. I could be 60 now if I wanted but instead I have leveled up 34 levels on my warlock and 30 and change on my fury since this although I still use my Templar for raiding for now. </P> <P>If you want to be a hardcore raider, than a Templar may (note may) be the choice for you. That is assuming (and I have it on good notice) that Templars will be hmmm adjusted. That being said, if you are not planning on being a hardcore raider and wanted to be a solid healer for groups or solo play a Druid (FURY). Just my suggestion but go with what you know.</P> <P>Xlrate 59.8 Templar Everfrost</P> <P>Irau 34 Warlock Everfrost</P> <P>Xlrate 30 Fury Faydark</P>

[Zabumt]

<DIV>Well, here's a note from a die-hard Templar.  My Templar has been my main since release.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I loved what he could do back at release when other Templars were complaining that Inquisitors had a better single-target reactive.  I still love my Templar now.  Can we solo as FAST as a mage?  No way.  Absolutely not.  Note I didn't say as well.  Some of us Templars have figured out how to solo some challenging content.  It's just slower than all get out.  I'd rather start an alt than solo with my Templar.  But get me in a group?  And I'm very happy.  Get me in a raid?  And I'm very happy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After dof release, I'll freely admit I went to my Wizard alt for a bit.  Mostly because there just weren't that many 50+ groups looking for healers at the time.  And I wasn't about to solo out 10 levels of 50+ content.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Because the guild I decided to join recently needed more healers I started playing my Templar more.  And I can't explain to you how happy I am with him in groups.  Nothing like decreasing the dps of an encounter with a mez, soothing a possible add and continuing to keep the group healthy with our variety of heals.  Some groups I've been in have even asked me what spells I'm using since they've never seen other Templars use our mez and soothe.  Hell, I had an officer in my guild say to me the other night that he had no idea that we had a buff that would give a 6 percent (at adept 1) stoneskin chance when hit by melee attacks heh.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Much like our first days at release, some Templars are confused about what's useful and what's not in our spell lines.  On a raid, I can say I only use our debuffs, buffs and instant heals (unless I'm in the MT group).  But in an xp group I use all of my spells to get the job done VERY well.  Just wish that translated easily to a raid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Play what you want and have fun.  With the way the game changes from month to month, I'm sure we'll see a slightly different vision of the class in a bit hehe.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Zabumt]

<DIV>Oh and I wanted to add about healer dps in a group.  If you're in a group with great dps.  Say a brigand, assassin, MT and you... there's no need to nuke really.  The mobs drop so fast there really isn't time between debuffs and heals.  So, yeah, a fury might bring some dps to a group but how often is it really useful?  In my opinion... only when the group is lacking in REAL dps to begin with.  In the case of a group with great dps, I think they'd rather have the better healer and in most cases that's a Templar or any of the other defensive healing classes like Wardens or Mystics.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Zabumtik wrote:<div>Oh and I wanted to add about healer dps in a group.  If you're in a group with great dps.  Say a brigand, assassin, MT and you... there's no need to nuke really.  The mobs drop so fast there really isn't time between debuffs and heals.  So, yeah, a fury might bring some dps to a group but how often is it really useful?  In my opinion... only when the group is lacking in REAL dps to begin with.  In the case of a group with great dps, I think they'd rather have the better healer and in most cases that's a Templar or any of the other defensive healing classes like Wardens or Mystics.</div> <hr></blockquote>Well, what if you dont have? In any case, when you have enough DPS in group, even healing is pretty meaningless since most mobs die before they actually manage to do any damage. Also what I have seen is that clerics need to cast a lot more single target heals in group setting tahn others since our reactives are not heals in the true meaning and they are not wards either. They will heal a fixed amount when damage is taken, but any excess damage needs to be healed directly. Ward and HoT will either block the whole damage or heal even after the target is not taking hits. In general group and fight, a single target reactive is enough to keep mt close to full health. But a ward or HoT is enough to keep mt at full health. What I am asking is that which one would you pick to a group. Healer with 100 healing and 100 DPS or healer with 100 healing and 30DPS? Anyway, what I have experienced with my monk, I will choose a healer with HoTs or wards any time over a healer with reactives. Clerics have just in too much trouble healing me with spike damage. Their responce to several 1k hits is to recast a 400pts reactive. And my responce is to stun so that I wouldn't die with next hit. And to both this goes by instinct.</span><div></div>

[kenji]

<P>i would have some adjustment for choosing a priest.<BR><BR>Templar : 100 heal (Stable dmg/Spike Dmg/Group Healing), 100 defense (buff), 100 offense (buff / debuff), 100 DPS as standard<BR>Fury : 150 heal, 50 defense, 300 offense , 300 DPS.<BR>Inquisitor : 130 heal, 70 defense, 300 offense, 150-300 DPS (situation reactive dmg spell).<BR><BR>choose a Templar? u kidding me.</P>

[Zabumt]

<DIV>Tim, obviously your monk is going to do better with hots and wards rather than reactives.  He's avoiding most of the hits rather than mitigating them.  With a plate tank it's different.  I mostly play with Guardian and Berzerker tanks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, you didn't take into account that I said I could remove dps from the encounter by mezzing/stunning a mob in the encounter or soothing a possible add.  On top of that, we get our lotto heals that seem to hit quite often and of course our fate line.  Which is probably the most important line we have in a fast-paced xp group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In a onesy-twosy xp group where the tank is pulling rather than a scout, sure I can see how we all match up evenly.  In a group pulling two-three encounters at a time to maximize xp and out of encounter AE effects, I can see where the Templar is the winner.  And in a group like this, even I as a Templar am struggling to keep up with heals at times hehe.  I'm definitely not trying to dps.  I'd take the better healer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You'd be amazed at the number of xp groups I've found that are pulling multiple encounters at once.  The grind is more like a mad slaughter than the slower one encounter at a time groups of the past.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Zabumtik wrote:<div>Tim, obviously your monk is going to do better with hots and wards rather than reactives.  He's avoiding most of the hits rather than mitigating them.  With a plate tank it's different.  I mostly play with Guardian and Berzerker tanks.</div> <div> </div> <div>Also, you didn't take into account that I said I could remove dps from the encounter by mezzing/stunning a mob in the encounter or soothing a possible add.  On top of that, we get our lotto heals that seem to hit quite often and of course our fate line.  Which is probably the most important line we have in a fast-paced xp group.</div> <div> </div> <div>In a onesy-twosy xp group where the tank is pulling rather than a scout, sure I can see how we all match up evenly.  In a group pulling two-three encounters at a time to maximize xp and out of encounter AE effects, I can see where the Templar is the winner.  And in a group like this, even I as a Templar am struggling to keep up with heals at times hehe.  I'm definitely not trying to dps.  I'd take the better healer. <font color="#ffff00">Actually here is where you are wrong. Druids will outheal a templar even in these situations. Ok, they will not untill they are lvl 52, but after that they will. This is just a mathematical fact calculated from the average healing power of main heals, utility and direct heals.</font> </div> <div> </div> <div>You'd be amazed at the number of xp groups I've found that are pulling multiple encounters at once.  The grind is more like a mad slaughter than the slower one encounter at a time groups of the past.</div> <div> </div><font color="#ffff00">I haven't said we cant heal. What I am saying is that other classes heal just as well and mostly better. Templar healing has in fact improved a bit from LU13. But druid healing has improved far more.</font><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Kilaelya]

<DIV>Ok I tried to read the replies but they didn't look at all like what I wanted to say!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Templars do have crappy dps, worst I would say, class in the game. Or, maybe that just how I feel =p</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ANYWAY, you're missing the big picture. Templars are awesome at healing. Yes, they may have "equaled" healing between all classes (which is, for the lack of a better term BS). Actually, Templars can still heal like there's no tomorrow. Reactives rock hard, they still do. Plus you get alternative ways to heal, which is what makes our class especially interesting to me. We have involuntary healer, glory of combat, and our mark of nobility line. I *love* mark of nobility, there's nothing like spamming the heal channel in a raid with mark, involuntary, and reactives to make you feel like you're the primary healer <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you're looking for a healer with dps, make a Fury :smileyvery-happy: However, if you're looking for a good support role in a raid/group go with Templar. Or, better yet Inquisitors get a little more damage than we do with procs.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Kilaelya on <span class=date_text>12-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:21 AM</span>

[kenji]

my bigger pic is, Inquisitor has same Reactive as Templar, and has shorter recast heals, with the help of Convert , their direct heal HPS 30% better than Templar (RH total heal > Templar). with Chilling Inquest, which covered the power lost from Convert, to me, Inquisitor is a better choice for Healing.<BR><BR>i dont like to rely on % rate, and if Inquisitor was that setting pre-13, i Wont create a templar. 100% for sure.<BR><BR>any /re-class service?

[Sokolov]

Kenjiso failed to mention that while Templar heals are slower than an Inquisitor's, they are the largest in the game (Defiler heals are the same). <div></div>

[Timaarit]

Inquisitor and templar direct heals are equal when you measure the amount healed per time. Sure they heal for less but they have equally shorter cast+recast. <div></div>

[KingOfF00LS]

Kendricke wrote: <hr> <div>In addition, as a group leader, I've actually used Odyssey situationally to remove members from my party who had gone AFK for a bit too long or in bad spots</div> <hr> <div>Doesn't Odyssey require a confirmation dialog?  I thought it did.  If so, how are you forcing people to gate out when they're AFK?</div><div></div>

[KingOfF00LS]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote:<p>There are times I use totems even in groups with scouts or Furies casting group invisibility simply because I don't have to worry about staying near the scout or Fury - especially in situations where the group needs to split up.  Honestly, it's no more annoying than casting a spell that has a component cost - both the spell icon and totem icon sit neatly on your hotbar.  The only difference is one requires the foresight to purchase it or otherwise acquire it in advance. <u> At less than 10 silver</u>, the cost is typically negligible...especially at higher ranks.  In addition, lower level Furies don't have access to group invisibility anyway - in which case, the totem comes in handy for both Furies and Templars.</p> <hr></blockquote>Invis totems cost a hell of a lot more than less than 10 silver.  I know, I've bought many, many of them.</span><div></div>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN>Anyway, what I have experienced with my monk, I will choose a healer with HoTs or wards any time over a healer with reactives. Clerics have just in too much trouble healing me with spike damage. Their responce to several 1k hits is to recast a 400pts reactive. And my responce is to stun so that I wouldn't die with next hit. And to both this goes by instinct.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>What's hitting you for <EM>"several 1k hits"</EM> in the first place? I'd love to take a monk to the areas your healers are apparantly having issues and see how we fare.  Sounds to me like your clerics need to alter tactics.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote: <p>What's hitting you for <em>"several 1k hits"</em> in the first place? I'd love to take a monk to the areas your healers are apparantly having issues and see how we fare.  Sounds to me like your clerics need to alter tactics.</p><div></div><hr></blockquote>Try any named in PoF. Or some of the ones in Scorn. When I was hit, in >90% of the cases it was from 1,2k to 1,7k. And as for reference, try it with monk, wizard and a healer. That was our setting so that the healer was templar. Eventually we managed Scorn after almost losing armor due to deaths, but PoF nameds were totally undoable. Scorn with a fury is piece of cake in that setting, haven't had time to try PoF yet with him.</span><div></div>

[kenji]

<DIV>Inquisitor has shorter recast heals, with the help of Convert , their direct heal HPS 30% better than Templar <BR>HPS : Healing Per Second.<BR>lets see 2 big heals<BR>Templar , 1399-1709 , 14.5 sec total, avg. HPS 107<BR>Inquisitor, 1166-1425 , 11 sec total, with +199 from Convert, avg HPS 135.9<BR>lets see 2 small heals<BR>Templar , 757-926 , 8 sec total, avg. HPS 105.2</DIV> <DIV>Inquisitor, 657-803 , 6 sec total, with +199 from Convert, avg. HPS 154.8<BR>Templar both biggest shot with Defiler? u kidding me?</DIV>

[SG_01]

<DIV>Guardians are actually the best to go with Clerics I've experienced. They have the ability to reduce their damage to acceptable damage. Besides that, stacking reactives, I can nearly counter that at level 53, and that's not a great level for PoF. Also, didn't you know templars could stun also? It's a big mistake made by some that templars can't stun/mez/soothe.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Finally, as templar you're not supposed to get hit in the first place. Anything non-named yellow or higher will rip you to shreds easily. We perhaps have Heavy Armor, but it's just for looks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At level 50, perhaps 51, I was the only healer of a group into the living tombs, killing the first priestess withoutg much problem at all...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the other topic: On my server it's common for inviz totems to go for 5g... We've got a shortage on woodworkers obviously <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, Odessey doesn't require a confirmation at all, and I like it that way <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by SG_01 on <span class=date_text>12-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:35 PM</span>

[Nari]

<span><blockquote><hr> <div>Also, Odessey doesn't require a confirmation at all, and I like it that way <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><p>Message Edited by SG_01 on <span class="date_text">12-13-2005</span> <span class="time_text">04:35 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>When is the last time you cast it? I cast it 2 weeks ago and my husband did have to confirm to be sent home. There is no confirmation when you cast it on yourself...</span><div></div>

[SG_01]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> 3devious wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <BR> <DIV>Also, Odessey doesn't require a confirmation at all, and I like it that way <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <P>Message Edited by SG_01 on <SPAN class=date_text>12-13-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:35 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>When is the last time you cast it? I cast it 2 weeks ago and my husband did have to confirm to be sent home. There is no confirmation when you cast it on yourself...<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hrmm, guess I cast it on myself too much then <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Rarely port another player out though, and if I do, no-one tells me about the dialog... (And last time I forced someone home was a long time ago...)<p>Message Edited by SG_01 on <span class=date_text>12-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:54 PM</span>

[Copperha]

I like Odyssey, I use Odyssey, I just wish Odyssey was group instead of single target.

[BenEm]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Banshee505 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hey,</DIV> <DIV>Basically i planned on making a Templar myself. Love the Clerics in D&D so natrually i thought they would be similar in EQ2. However the general impression i get is Templars are well to be blunt "pathetic" you have the worst damage in the game. I heard a Templar say a fury did 10 times as much damage. I have also heard that Templar is rubbish in pvp and gets no better heals than that of a Fury. So whats the advantage? Plate armor in exchange for ten times the damage? Thats a bad deal!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is there any advantages and postives to templars? If not are there any changes getting made?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mean no offense to anyone im a newbie deciding which healer to play...from the looks of things Templar isnt a good choice.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Templars rubish in PvP is just that rubish ! The battle probably wont end but you wont lose either <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I am undefeated with my 48 Temp . Hence why your not going to see any major changes in DPS or other area's for Templars they must keep PvP balance at all costs . Which sucks for us that could care less about the no penalty psuedo PvP that EQ2 is .</P> <P>I would truley consider a Fury though # 1 for me they are a lot more fun # 2 they heal just as well or so close to a Temp you should grab all those great utility's and DPS that the Temps just dont get . The game over all has limmited healing needs do to the quick battles . Raids are different but not as much as some want to imply battles that last more than 30 to 45 seconds in this game are far and few between unless your soloing with your Templar <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .<BR></P>

[rtoub]

<P>Wow feel the love, I would choose not to be a templar just based on the community from reading here.  I am sure to get beaten down for saying something positive.</P> <P>Anyway, soloing for exp is not really an option.  You can kill pretty much anything other classes do, just very slowly.  You can solo but if you are grinding for exp solo only you might want to rethink.  Going through solo sections of quests is doable though.</P> <P>I like the reactive form of healing and it works for me.  I can remember thinking during my couple months of EQ1 I wished that healing worked this way.  The other two healing classes heal much differently.  With a mitagation tank I find healing to be a breeze.  With avoidence tanks I tend to spend too much time healing and run into trouble with timers.  Still I can keep groups alive with either type of tank.</P> <P>PvP don't really have any interest but I find the battles are long and pointless.  I can heal more than they can damage and I can't damage enough to kill.  The exception was a scout class that stun locked me and took me down in 10 seconds.</P> <P>For utility we get odessy, rarely use it but it comes in handy.  Our res is 100%hp which few classes get and no rez sickness.  I haven't found a class with 100%hp rez with no sickness but I haven't researched it.  30 sec imune to stun comes in handy in several battles.  Unfotunatly there isn't much utility at lower levels.</P> <P>If you have a group of friends playing or are part of an active guild, I would give Templar a shot if you like the reactive style of healing.  Otherwise you might want to look at another class.</P> <P> </P>

[Sokolov]

<span><blockquote><hr>rtoub wrote:<div></div> <p>Wow feel the love, I would choose not to be a templar just based on the community from reading here.  I am sure to get beaten down for saying something positive.</p><hr></blockquote> Pretty much.</span><div></div>