What's your plan?

[Kendricke]

<DIV>I've asked this in a different discussion, but realized that it wasn't the right area for such a different discussion.  Now, what I'm asking in all seriousness - not just to sate my own curiousity, but hopefully to get some perspective shared within this forum by many different Templars who are often on different sides of the fence regarding various changes.  We've got plenty of places to share our issues and suggestions.  Yet, rarely have I heard anyone state <EM>how</EM> they feel they'll get those issues addressed.  Hopefully this disucssion will get us all thinking on what we could do to actually work constructively toward acheiving goals.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With that in mind, I ask the following of every Templar here:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What's your plan?  What you feel you're doing to actually get the changes you want enacted?  How do you recommend getting those changes you'd like actually put into place?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[OlaeviaTraisharan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What's your plan?  What you feel you're doing to actually get the changes you want enacted?  How do you recommend getting those changes you'd like actually put into place?  </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I send in feedback and post on various boards other than this one to address issues. I don't think that it's anyone not trying to pursue getting changes done that's causing problems. I think it's people deciding to start petty arguments on every single thread started here. I mean we had some good threads going on soloing tips and it immediately spiraled down into a pit of flaming goo as soon as a few choice people decided to post just to provoke other players with differing opinions. This is why I send my feedback through other avenues. I don't think this board is mature enough to handle sending appropriate feedback. It's like watching a high school prom queen campaign on these boards sometimes. The entire thing is a self-propelled popularity contest to see who has the right to send feedback to developers and be the "spokesperson" for the class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a less serious note, I thought about sending cookies to Moorgard, but I don't know how well they'd come out after going through shipping <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Aleph]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OlaeviaTraisharan wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a less serious note, I thought about sending cookies to Moorgard, but I don't know how well they'd come out after going through shipping <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <P><BR></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Cookies tend to break and crumble through shipping.  Moist brownies, however, ship very well via UPS or FedEx.  It's best to choose 2 day at least.</P> <P>My plan?  Play my character.  Test it's limits and learn what I can do and what I can't do.  Feed back issues I have with an attempt to justify why I believe they are issues.  If I get bored, I'll just go play another game.  So far, I'm not bored.</P> <P>Alephin</P>

[ginfress]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What's your plan?  What you feel you're doing to actually get the changes you want enacted?  How do you recommend getting those changes you'd like actually put into place?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Using feedback since that is the most direct way to give your opinion and ideas to the SoE dev-team. </DIV>

[Caethre]

<DIV>OOC.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We cannot tell the developers what to decide, that is their job not ours, all we can do is make sure our observations and feelings are arriving at the destination. In the end, SoE will do what they feel is best. However, we have a common goal, the developers and the players, at least most of us do, and that is the maintainence of a fun game for everyone. Not every voice can be heard, there are too many, but a mass of voices in unison often is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So :-</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Maintain and support an active list of the major balance issues of our class. Now this is stickied, and being looked at by Raijinn and (he has reported) the devs, we know the message is starting to get through. I'd advise all those who have opinions, are unhappy, and want to see our class fixed, go post on that thread, saying what you feel is needed to make us fun to play once more. SoE do want feedback, and it is in our interest too to give it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Keep up reporting observations, data, opinions and feelings on these boards, and via /feedback, to support the process of getting our class fixed. Do not let up, or sit back and think it's all in the works. Until the live update comes through where once again Templar players can log in their characters and have as much fun in their chosen playstyle as once they did, we are not there. Do not give up!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3. Try to contribute to the agenda as much as possible, to ensure that the message of the players that the class needs fixing, gets through, and arrives in the correct form. The message is quite unmistakable - our class is badly damaged, to the point that many of us feel it is broken compared to other classes, and it seriously needs rebalancing. This is a MAJOR issue for solo/small group and so-called "casual" or "easier-content" players - that's probably the large majority of players. However, although perhaps not as acute or as heavily reported on these boards, there are issues even at the top end, for the hardcore raider Templars, where some urgent issues need addressing. This message needs to be gotten through in its entirity - a "fix" for one segment of the Templar community and not another will only cause continued quitting, re-rolling and continued (if more fracticious) unhappiness.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4. Show passion! If you care, show it! There is a difference between those who really care about seeing positive changes to the class and to the game, and those who want to chair meetings and control agenda but appear to have no real passion for the gameplay underneath, and it shines through. SoE developers love their game, I am certain of it, and if you show you love it too, but have some specific issues where mistakes have been made, putting it over in that light is likely to be more productive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>5. Unfortunately, this community has not helped itself, due to a few of our own number. Ensure that those amongst us who want changes and represent the "common view" of what appears to be most Templars have a substantial impact on what is being reported back. This means also needing to oppose mistruths and smokescreens where they are presented as evidence for leaving the Templar class in its current poor state. Most of all, I've read too often of people saying that such people make them not want to post on the forums, and this is not good.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>None of this definitely achieves anything, indeed, unless you ARE a senior developer at SoE, you can only make comments and suggestions. The final decisions lie with them. Judging by the nature of player boards like these, that's a good thing too!<BR></DIV><p>Message Edited by Caethre on <span class=date_text>12-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:20 PM</span>

[Childe]

<div align="center"></div><div></div>Well i have to say i have been silent since i began playing.I mean i left feedback and all but here is the reality.I called Eq tech support awhile back to chew some butt and ended up having a long conversation with the other man over the phone.He was a Templar aswell an employee of SOE trashed the class he was playing post revamp.Why you ask.... well he was unhappy cause he had a job.Having a job means your probably are a casual  player.Playing Casual will not get you the best gear or master1 spells wich means if your Templar is not in tip top shape kiss your solo career goodbye.The combat revamp just pretty much scaled us back to lvl 36 Templars and they havnt changed the dps i was capable of doing when i was that level to the dps that im doing now its the same.I raid and may i say i raid a ton am i worth that seat at the raid table?My answer is yes! For that i am happy but... where do we get to brag about what we bring to a group or where do we get to brag about the quest we just solod.We do not get to brag at all.Bragging is for druids only at this point wich i cant stand.Why do Druids get to brag (all of the above) you see they have that same seat at the raid table as i do.Can they quest? Why, yes they can quest  cause they have the dps of a wizard with heals [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]!SOE did not balance the priest class at all!I am posting here to let you guys know i back a fix on Templars and tho i dont like to post SOE you made me do this i have been quiet long enough.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Tifraudant of Guk                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           60 Templar                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ne Plus Ultra<div></div><p>Message Edited by Childers on <span class=date_text>12-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:32 AM</span>

[Nari]

Wow. Just... wow... I hope that CSR you talked with doesn't somehow get in trouble over that.  I don't think he is allowed to flame on his class like that as a CSR, as a player talking to other players... break out the butane, man. I am glad that you displayed passion about your class, but what if the guy who got your call was someone who didn't really play and was making minimum wage? Ouch.  I hope you were alright with him.  I guess you are one of those holy warriors. Uh, I just want to go on record as saying that calling and kicking CSR butt is not part of my plan (even though I could beat Raijin without Blackguard's help.) <div></div>

[bigmak20]

/forum_troll (well, that's what they tell me.../sigh) What can we actually /feedback and /bug?  Tell them what they already know? I only play my Templar once in a while now.  Too depressing and there's really nothing a solo Templar can do that is worth doing.  Even old quests against 30s greys take forever. I hold out hope Sony realizes this 3 or 4 class cookie cutter approach of theirs is bogus.  The kung-fu kiddie wannabe tanks that are genericizing every class there ever was all need to be fired, they are destroying MMORPGs. EQ2 has the engine and graphics to be a better game.  The implementers have royally screwed the pooch.  This game was better.. a LOT better.. before LU13.  It needed some classes FIXED.  FIXED.  Not changed.  And I'm not talking about just Templar's here.  The game balance is better because many classes were fixed at LU13.  The game overall is worse by a large margin. If the kung-fu kiddie wannabe tanks are still in charge of the asylum in a month or two then I'm out. That's the plan. <div></div>

[Kayle]

<DIV>Well, I got tired of waiting and the nonsense, so I cancelled my account.  It expires Dec. 30th.  I play WoW now.  At least I don't have to fight to be a unique class there.  Maybe that plan will wake SoE up, but it's not my problem anymore.  VG looks like it has years to go anyway.  HUGE disappointment there for everyone that had high hopes, but oh well.  Life goes on.   A game should be fun.  When it becomes annoying to come here, even to discuss a problem, I'm DONE!  I don't like it one bit.  Maybe Kendricke loves to argue but at least I'll live longer for this decision.  There was always Plan B anyway.  :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Take care all and GOOD LUCK!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS:  No, you can't have my stuff.  I gave it all away today, including plat and made some nice strangers totally shocked, but happy.  About 60 plat worth, all gone.  Sorry if you missed it.  Early Christmas presents were fun to give out -- especially to the game-poor.  Best fun I've had since LU#13.  :smileyvery-happy:</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kaylena on <span class=date_text>12-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:06 AM</span>

[bigmak20]

/cry Sorry to hear that K. I'm on Emerald Dream -- RPPVP.  Great fun. Rorq - 45 Warlock Zanbr - 25 Priest Maybe we can start our own EQ2 Templar refugee camp in WoW

[Grimhamm]

<P>I'm sorry Kendricke, but, in order to answer your question, I need to assume that Sony is willing to listen and make changes .</P> <P>In what? 3 months now?  Input has been given to Sony through these forums and likely /feedback.  In those 3 months, as I scan Sony's update notes, I see many other classes tweaked, but I see almost nothing for templars beyond bug fixes.</P> <P>Which is more reasonable assumption: Sony's ready to modify templars (as your question assumes) or templars are static for now, as Sony's behavior over the last 3 months suggests?</P> <P>I believe the objective was to tone down the templar class in order to create a dynamic to roughly equalize the population across all healing classes, and I would guess they are succeeding.  Purely my speculation, of course.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by Grimhammer on <span class=date_text>12-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:08 PM</span>

[Kendricke]

<P>I'm not assuming anything regarding SOE with this question.  My real curiousity is in what my fellow Templars feel is the best plan of attack to enact change.  I'm not assuming any tact is better than another, or even that any tact would work at all.  I'll admit that this started as a personal curiousity toward learning what those who constanted fought against one another here (specifically against me) thought was the best way to get changes enacted.  I wanted to see how many people thought I had it "wrong" actually had a plan - any plan to do <EM>something</EM>.</P> <P>Upon reflection, I realized that by simply leaving the conversation open ended, we might actually come up with some pretty good ideas as well.  </P>

[Grimhamm]

<P>Fair enough, Kendricke.</P> <P>You seem close to Sony - what motivates them?</P> <P>Some people speculate that Sony looks at what issues GM are responding to in the game, and acts to reduce them ("I cannot recover my shard!") so maybe if we all /petition and engage a GM on our templar views, that will get something started.</P> <P>I think they do look at why people quit, but I cannot both quit the game and then play my revised templar at some future point, right?</P> <P>I wish I knew how they decide what to work on.  I was absolutely floored yesterday to read in these forums a post by a <EM>Senior Programmer</EM> in which he stated he might work on letting a player select the color for the floating damage his pet does!  OMG, in that same day I once again lost a life to a dungeon mob that disappeared behind a wall, became un-selectable, and kept attacking me.  The lag in DFC has been miserable for over a year.  This is a team that has stated on these forums that they intentionally makes legendary, player-crafted robes as unattractive as reasonably possible, as a primary motivater to have players group and take on the most extreme game content.   And so on, and so on.</P> <P>My point is that we need to understand Sony's way of thinking much more to be able to answer your question, yes?</P> <P>Honestly, I think it is Game Over with regards to templar adjustments.</P> <P> </P> <P>References</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=71666#M71666" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=71666#M71666</A> - customize color for pet damage, oh boy!</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=grph&message.id=21046#M21046" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=grph&message.id=21046#M21046</A> - Ugly, legendary, player-crafted armor is great game design!</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Grimhammer on <span class=date_text>12-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:42 PM</span>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Grimhammer wrote:<BR> <P>Fair enough, Kendricke.</P> <P>You seem close to Sony - what motivates them?</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I can't speak for Sony.  I just want to make that clear, again.  Therefore, anything I say on this subject is my opinion on the subject, and mine alone. </P> <P>With that said, I can tell you that the most shocking thing about the developers is how...well, how normal they are.  They aren't pasty geeks with no social skills scheming on ways to nail us to the wall.  They like to have a good time just like the rest of us - and not some mutant version of "good time", but the same way I'd spend my Saturday night is the same way most of them would.</P> <P>They're also a lot better versed than I think most folks give them credit for.  A lot of them play multiple games - not just Everquest 2.  I think it's safe to say that if there's a class, race, or game...a SOE developer is probably got it covered.  I met several developers that play the game even now, yet anonymously.  The Guardian in your group last night may very well have been a developer just trying to get to level 54 - and you'll never know that.  I think that we like to imagine them in lofty ivory towers or fortressed dark rooms pouring over code, oblivious to what players like and don't like...when in fact, most of them are quite aware of "the average player".</P> <P>What motivates them?  What motivates you?  What motivates me?  I don't think it's a question of motivation personally, but I'd have to say that in general, they're probably motivated by a desire to produce quality work.  Keep in mind that this is a blue chip company we're talking about.  We may forget that from time to time, but I'm pretty sure it takes more than just showing up to get hired on.  You're free to disagree, but every developer I've met was a professional through and through...and seemed genuinely interested in hearing feedback on what they've done.  They were like little kids when they showed us what they were doing with Desert of Flames - they couldn't WAIT to show off this or that or this again. </P> <P>I will say they thrived on specifics.  I mean <EM>specifics</EM>.  If you brought up an issue with "spelling errors in the game", they'd ask if you had examples (I pointed out Luxery Apartment - heh).  If you brought up an issue with difficulty of encounters, they'd want to know class, level, and which encounter.  Numbers were important - very important.  Most of the development team is very well schooled in game design from a coding standpoint.  Even the designers were always asking about numbers whenever possible, or at least examples.  I had an issue with an emote not showing, so Joe Shoopak (Rystul) corralled a spare PC so I could log in, call in a few guildmates, and SHOW him the issue right on the screen. </P> <P>You want my opinion on the subject?  Deal in specifics.  Don't treat them as the enemy.  Don't bog down into attacking other players, either.  The developers are smart people.  The see what's going on.  They may not jump when we want them to, but they address every issue that they see - regardless or not if all players necessarily see eye to eye on that.  They've got ideas on where they want this game to go.  They're not stupid or malicious at all when it comes to this online world. </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Gcha]

<P>My plan is exactly what I've said it was every time I've been asked previously, so I incorporate those posts by reference.</P> <P>Seems to me Caethre's stickied thread covers things thoroughly.  Obviously there are some conflicting ideas, and people will never agree on some things.  The devs will have to sort that out.  The does seem to be broad agreement that improvement is needed and there is fairly broad agreement on some areas.</P> <P>I don't see why we need competing "master" threads.  It would be better if everyone supported one suggestion thread (and kept extraneous stuff out of it).</P>

[Sassyone]

<DIV> <DIV>"What's your plan?  What you feel you're doing to actually get the changes you want enacted?  How do you recommend getting those changes you'd like actually put into place? "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well considering SOE has had months to listen to the Templars concerns on the boards since LU 13 and ignores us, the fact that Kendricke and others shoot down all the suggestions or pretty much finds others concerns of no value, and the tweaking of the classes are going elsewhere down the line bypassing the Templars, well, my plan is to either continue playing my newb alt when I see fit to play this sickeningly buggy game that changes characters abilities at the drop of a hat or find me a poker site on the net.until Vanguard comes out then it's adios SOE for good  He!! at this point anything is better than this.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why even ask what our plans are? Just a waste of virtual ink. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Have a good one!</DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by Sassyone on <span class=date_text>12-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:05 PM</span>

[bigmak20]

<P>**REMOVED DUE TO INAPPROPRIATE CONTENT**</FONT></P><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>12-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:18 PM</span>

[Takeo1]

<P>**REMOVED DUE TO INAPPROPRIATE CONTENT**</FONT></P><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>12-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:19 PM</span>

[CasieStarfi]

<P>My plan!</P> <P>I'm going to let people post thier concerns on this board and not attack them like a rabid pound puppy, if they dont play thier characters the same way I do.</P> <P>I'm gonna listen more than I preach.</P> <P>I'm gonna give everyone the benfit of the doubt.</P> <P>And I'm gonna be supportive of good ideas no matter who comes up with them.</P> <P><EM>I may have said this before, but I really believe templars do a fine job letting soe know how they feel.  We don't always agree, but no class does all the time.  It would be a shame if people stopped posting here because they feared getting run over.  Contribute. Agree. Disagree. Rant. Comfort. Participate!  Its all good!</EM></P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Arielle Nightshade]

<DIV>Since there are devs that play this class who are ..just like you and me...and know the issues that face us all - I am not sure why I need to have 'a plan' at all.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> After three months of pretty much No Change to things that have been (reportedly) /feedback'd, /bugged, and discussed on these boards in great depth...I'm not sure what else you could say and/or do that would actually make any difference.   Not sure it is, at this point, worth the effort.</DIV> <DIV><BR>I'll either play or not.    Devs dont make me any promises that change or fix will happen - I don't make them any promises that I'll continue to be a loyal customer or player.   Pretty simple.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[kenji]

plan...my plan.<BR><BR>we have some posts have all the feedback / suggestions we could give, either underpower or broken or whatever, due to so lack of changes made in last 3 Months. i hardly see that we gonna get fixed in the next 3 months.<BR><BR> <DIV>my plan, delete all my friends account at christmas, and chop off like 30x monthly payment as new year gift to SoE <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Timaarit]

Well Kend, what is your plan? Do you have any? Other than to stall things by making strawmen about other peoples comments? My current plan to be heard includes ripping the kind of 'arguments' for example you present. That is easy since you provide no facts that can be proven. Plan B is also in motion. It includes cancelling and moving to DDO or VG. I have 3 months left on my account and that is the deadline for me. <div></div>

[rollando]

<P>At this point, I'd just be happy with a single chance to convert 20 levels of my templar for 10 on another toon.</P> <P> </P>

[kenji]

<DIV>if i can transfer all my 60 templar's lvl to my 50 necro becomes 60, i will do it too.</DIV>

[Andu]

<P>Well. I've been /feedbacking and posting. I don't know what more we can do.</P> <P>I have given up on the class for now and am enjoying myself levelling my alt.</P> <P>If the Templar class isn't sorted out by February, I'm off to DDO with my friends.</P> <P>Simple enough plan.</P>

[BozEuge]

<DIV>my plan remains the same :</DIV> <DIV>. play my templar in raid</DIV> <DIV>. play my warlock for solo/group since templar is too frustrating to play in the current state</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>will perhaps change my mind if our class become less boring to play outside raid</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Saphir, 60 Templar (retired outside raid)</DIV> <DIV>Splotch, 58 Warlock</DIV> <DIV>Bisoux, 42 Inquisitor/60 Alchemist (retired outside tradeskilling)</DIV> <DIV>Emeraude, 19 summoner</DIV>

[Nari]

Perhaps I should update my plan to find out how to contact some of you in DDO. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Wossname]

My plan is to continue using all the channels available to me, as I do now. If anyone can offer me a plan on how not to have my faith in getting us fixed ebbing away I'd love to hear it. Seeing nothing for Templars in each set of patch notes drains a little more faith. Seeing nothing from devs to acknowledge the double penalties we pay post LU13 drains some more. Seeing trivia like damage colours altered when there are core issues unaddressed drains more faith away. On the upside, my Wizard is coming along nicely. 40 so far and fantastic fun. Can solo, can group, always playable. <div></div>

[Tirador]

<DIV>My plan? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Play my Paladin until something changes, and it will change, it always does. If there is ever one constant in these games it is change.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Consider EQ1, how many of this list played EQ1 when it was originally released? Look at it now. I remember in EQ1, you had to originally wait until level 29 as a cleric to get res. Now I think it is at level 19? Or is it even lower, I have not played EQ1 in a couple of years now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So play some other character for a while and wait and see what happens. These developer types are not going to make any huge changes right now, nor will they likely change anything large for 4 - 6 months.  That seems to be the lifecycle of these types of changes. Yeah we will see updates, small updates from time to time. Maybe a slight change to a spell or three, perhaps a small change to some obscure formula that effects mitigation or healing power, but nothing large.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then in 6 months there will be a major change that effects the complete balance of the classes in this game. I would even go so far as to say in a year, the complete direction that was laid before us in recent months will be changed. This usually changes with each larger expansion that is released.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So be patient as this unfolds, if you are unhappy, go play something else. If in the next 6 months nothing has changed, I will likely start looking at the next game and start playing that.</DIV>