Divine Arbitration master 1 .... errr ... woot?

[MrDiz]

Got my first ever master 1 last night ... diving arbitration. Same power requirments, same effect, no differences. Why do they bother even putting masters in for spells like that?

[Sokolov]

To maintain their image to me of being "<b><i>Consistently Inconsistent</i></b>" <div></div>

[Brallin]

Read the description of the spell. It becomes more efficient as you upgrade it.:smileywink:

[Jukk]

For me, the spell does not work at all.Tank is at 50% hp. I use the spell.Noone's hp in the group even moves. Nothing happens.<div></div>

[Lintr]

Can somebody enlighten me on how exactly this spell works?  Most of the time when i cast it, the tank actually goes down in HP, even when he is in yellow/orange. So it takes everybody's HP added together and distributes them evenly? <div></div>

[AzraelAzgard]

<DIV>Umm Brallin have you actually tried testing this spell? No</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Upgrades to DA do nothing, each quality carries the same hp loss penalty.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And atm Divine Arbitration is completly messed up for me now, the last 5 times Ive used it to save different classes its taken hp from just the fighters and left everyone else 100%, which doesnt help because its not balancing the groups hp its sending my fighters into low hp and usually its a fighter you try and save with this so its not helping at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This spell needs some serious looking at, the fact that it doesnt upgrade.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ad1 10%, Ad3 5%, M1 0% penalty should be how it is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And the fact that it should send everyone in your group to the same hp %.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I.e.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>80%</DIV> <DIV>80%</DIV> <DIV>80%</DIV> <DIV>80%</DIV> <DIV>80%</DIV> <DIV>80%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>100%</DIV> <DIV>40%</DIV> <DIV>100%</DIV> <DIV>40%</DIV> <DIV>100%</DIV> <DIV>100%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as its doing atm it seems.</DIV>

[Lintr]

Would be nice to totally remove this useless spell which cannot be upgraded into an upgradable lvl 58 Ancient Teaching (like many other classes). <div></div>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Lintrix wrote:Would be nice to totally remove this useless spell which cannot be upgraded into an upgradable lvl 58 Ancient Teaching (like many other classes). <div></div><hr></blockquote>They can't. It would mess with PvP balance.</span><div></div>

[Jukk]

What am I then doing wrong?<b>1.</b> I wait until the tank is at 50% hp<b>2.</b> I press the hotkey for DA<b>Result: </b>Nothing happens. Noone in my group has any change in hp...nothing moves.<div></div>

[AzraelAzgard]

<DIV>You've simply had luck that it works right.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ive had the spell work perfectly twice, for some reason it BALANCED the group's hp ! the tank actually got an hp increase.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And then the 50 identical situations Ive used it in at other times it just makes things worse.</DIV>

[Kendricke]

Listed as bug in Holy Books of Templar.

[Supernova17]

Divine Arbitrition is one of our "OH SH**" spells, and really should only be used when the tank is in the red and you need to get them back up into high yellow. It's on a 15 minute timer, but the spell is instant cast, cannot be interrupted and can be casted while moving. It's not as useful as it sounds in the description. <span>:smileysurprised:</span> <div></div>

[Blast2hell]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lintrix wrote:<BR>Would be nice to totally remove this useless spell which cannot be upgraded into an upgradable lvl 58 Ancient Teaching (like many other classes).<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>They can't. It would mess with PvP balance.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Please explain what this has to do with PvP balance?    I assume you realize spells can work diffrently in PvP then they do in PvE, if not I can gladly point you to many many threads where the Devs explain this.

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote>Blast2hell wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Timaarit wrote:<span> <blockquote> <hr> Lintrix wrote:Would be nice to totally remove this useless spell which cannot be upgraded into an upgradable lvl 58 Ancient Teaching (like many other classes). <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>They can't. It would mess with PvP balance.</span> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>Please explain what this has to do with PvP balance?    I assume you realize spells can work diffrently in PvP then they do in PvE, if not I can gladly point you to many many threads where the Devs explain this. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Can they? Sure the devs claim that, but none of the abilities work differently in PvP than in PvE. Sure in PvE mobs have no resist values nor mitigation and in PvP opponent has. But other that that, there is no difference. Thus they cannot give us any more actually useful Ancient Teachings. Sanctuary is the most useful while fighting opponent with stuns, but it doesn't tip the balance. If Reverence was useful in groups, it might since we could then heal even more while nuking. In its current form in test, it is very nice in PvP but not in PvE. Heh, last time a guildie cast it on my monk, I couldn't sprint to heal myself, after it was over, I could again sprint.</span><div></div>

[OlaeviaTraisharan]

<DIV>The balancing spells around PVP is a moot point now. Moorgard posted last night that they have separated the roles of spells into PVE stats and PVP stats so they balance them separately. Meaning, your spells may not work the same in PVP as they do in PVE.</DIV>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OlaeviaTraisharan wrote:<BR> <DIV>The balancing spells around PVP is a moot point now. Moorgard posted last night that they have separated the roles of spells into PVE stats and PVP stats so they balance them separately. Meaning, your spells may not work the same in PVP as they do in PVE.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Moorgard's been stating that for over a year.  Timaarit still persists that this means nothing - that somehow he apparantly knows more about the design of the game than those who actually design the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Blast2hell]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OlaeviaTraisharan wrote:<BR> <DIV>The balancing spells around PVP is a moot point now. Moorgard posted last night that they have separated the roles of spells into PVE stats and PVP stats so they balance them separately. Meaning, your spells may not work the same in PVP as they do in PVE.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Moorgard's been stating that for over a year.  Timaarit still persists that this means nothing - that somehow he apparantly knows more about the design of the game than those who actually design the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That must be it, because I've seen spells that work in PvP that don't work in PvE, or at least not the same...just have to pay attention a little and you will see.   Off the top of my head... Devastating Fist ....you can use this in PvE, but it does a big fat 0 in PvP.    that would be evidence of seperate code.

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Blast2hell wrote:That must be it, because I've seen spells that work in PvP that don't work in PvE, or at least not the same...just have to pay attention a little and you will see.   Off the top of my head... Devastating Fist ....you can use this in PvE, but it does a big fat 0 in PvP.    that would be evidence of seperate code. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Devastation fist doesn't work agains heroics. What you are saying is that the spell has a line that prevents it from working in PvP. Fact is that the target has been made to correspond heroic encounter so that this skill doesn't work. So, come up with a better example, this one only proves my point, they are not making the changes to skills, they are working around them by using the restrictions within skills by applying restrictive elements to players, not skills. I will believe what you say when for example 4s stun against PvE is 2s in PvP. So can you give me a better example?</span><div></div>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blast2hell wrote:<BR>That must be it, because I've seen spells that work in PvP that don't work in PvE, or at least not the same...just have to pay attention a little and you will see.   Off the top of my head... Devastating Fist ....you can use this in PvE, but it does a big fat 0 in PvP.    that would be evidence of seperate code. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Devastation fist doesn't work agains heroics. What you are saying is that the spell has a line that prevents it from working in PvP. Fact is that the target has been made to correspond heroic encounter so that this skill doesn't work.<BR><BR>So, come up with a better example, this one only proves my point, they are not making the changes to skills, they are working around them by using the restrictions within skills by applying restrictive elements to players, not skills. I will believe what you say when for example 4s stun against PvE is 2s in PvP.<BR><BR>So can you give me a better example?<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ok, so you don't believe the developers stating flat out that the spells can be tagged differently.  You don't believe Blast2Hell when he finds an example of a spell that works differently in PVP than in PVE.  </P> <P>So what happens when such a spell is found, or when the developers reveal a more robust PVP system?  An apology?  A retraction?  A correction?  I can't understand why anyone would so stubbornly continue to claim more knowledge on game design than the persons who are actually designing the game.  Do you really expect us to take your word over the developers?  Do you really distrust the developers that much?  If you do, why are you here?</P> <P> </P>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote:<p>Ok, so you don't believe the developers stating flat out that the spells can be tagged differently.  You don't believe Blast2Hell when he finds an example of a spell that works differently in PVP than in PVE. </p> <p><font color="#ffff00">What is the difficuölt part for you in this sentence: Devastation fist does not work differently in PvP than in PvE?</font> </p> <p>So what happens when such a spell is found, or when the developers reveal a more robust PVP system?  An apology?  A retraction?  A correction?  I can't understand why anyone would so stubbornly continue to claim more knowledge on game design than the persons who are actually designing the game.  Do you really expect us to take your word over the developers?  Do you really distrust the developers that much?  If you do, why are you here?</p> <p> <font color="#ffff00">Well once you find it, then I will say, 'Ok, now they have changed it to what they said they had to begin with'. But your silence about actual skill that works differently tells me that they haven't. </font></p> <p><font color="#ffff00">And no, I dont expect you to take my word for it, just look at the facts. I know, you dont recognice one even <strike>if</strike> when you stumble over one, this you have proven again and again. In fact, you have been hit with facts and you haven't seen them still. </font></p> <div></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Blast2hell]

wow, you probably don't believe in the color of the sky or the air you breath.   I wouldn't even begin to debate with someone as hardheaded as you, like talking to a donkey about science....waste of time.

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Blast2hell wrote:wow, you probably don't believe in the color of the sky or the air you breath.   I wouldn't even begin to debate with someone as hardheaded as you, like talking to a donkey about science....waste of time. <div></div><hr></blockquote>If you told me something about the color of the sky, I wouldn't believe it if it wasn't the same as I saw. I bet you would believe if the devs claimed sky is green.</span><div></div>

[kenji]

from my experience, the Mitigation debuff works differently on PC and NPC.<BR>since PC has Mit, but NPC doesnt.<BR>the % debuffed make a huge difference.<BR> <DIV>e.g Mark - on PC, really dropped 800 resist (aka ~10%) our fixed AoE will hit ~10% more (or u can say 10% less mitigated)</DIV> <DIV>but on NPC, with 800 debuff drop, a 300 AoE will just make 310 dmg. not a ~10% increase.<BR><BR>just my experience <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV>

[Aleph]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> kenjiso wrote:<BR> from my experience, the Mitigation debuff works differently on PC and NPC.<BR>since PC has Mit, but NPC doesnt.<BR>the % debuffed make a huge difference.<BR> <DIV>e.g Mark - on PC, really dropped 800 resist (aka ~10%) our fixed AoE will hit ~10% more (or u can say 10% less mitigated)</DIV> <DIV>but on NPC, with 800 debuff drop, a 300 AoE will just make 310 dmg. not a ~10% increase.<BR><BR>just my experience <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes, ever since they "fixed" the mob mitigation so that your spell damage reads what you actually hit for, the Mark line has been mostly useless as a debuffer.  I think it's because if mobs don't mitigate anything to start with, making them mitigate even less is pointless.  The wierd thing is, I've seen a big difference with my autoattack damage on both green cons (10% increase) and white cons (14% difference) using the physical mit debuff, so I know that the autoattack damage actually gets a nice percentage increase, contrasting with the meager 10 pt increase (~3% increase) on our AoE line with Mark.  </P> <P>So our physical mitigation debuff has a nice effect on autoattack damage on mobs, just like it does on players.  I'm still wondering about physically damaging combat arts on mobs, though.  Are they more like the lousy spell damage increase or the much better autoattack damage?</P> <P>This is a good example of spells seeming to work differently on mobs and players, but I think the reason is because mobs have 0 mitigation to arts and spells, and players have a non-zero amount. </P> <P>Alephin </P> <p>Message Edited by Alephin on <span class=date_text>12-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:56 AM</span>

[Timaarit]

Blast, ok, you want some other proof that they in fact cannot alter the skills to work differently in different situations? Yes, they can disable the specials in certain cases. Like devastation fist in heroics and PvP. But they cannot change the durations. Take any stun. Now in epic encounters, if they were able to do what they say, they easily could have reduced the durations for stuns. Instead they made it so that stuns dont work at all. Reason given was 'overpowering'. With reduced times, it wouldn't have been. But they cannot do what they said (or at least it is difficult enough for the devs not to do it ever). Ok, I admit, they propably could do it, but like said, it would take so much time and effort that they wont. So they are propably not lying about the possibility. But that still doesn't change the fact that they have not altered a singe skill to work differently in PvP and in PvE. <div></div>

[Rocksurly]

<DIV>I think one of the best things about this spell is that it has no in zone range limit. I have used it to heal and save people that were running off mobs and about to die accross an entire zone.</DIV>