So few of us

[mortis19]

<DIV>I don't know how it is on your servers, but on Antonio Bale there is so few people that play Clerics,  I'm guessing becouse of fun wise of the class.  In my guild we have around 30-40 Active Players and I'm the only Cleric in the entire guild.  Would kind of explain when I get invited they bumped me to officer right away.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>25 Inquisiter</DIV>

[quetzaqotl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mortis1977 wrote:<BR> <DIV>I don't know how it is on your servers, but on Antonio Bale there is so few people that play Clerics,  I'm guessing becouse of fun wise of the class.  In my guild we have around 30-40 Active Players and I'm the only Cleric in the entire guild.  <STRONG>Would kind of explain when I get invited they bumped me to officer right away.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>25 Inquisiter</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>:smileysurprised: geez apart from it being really weird but I guess its a lowbie guild eh, that aside then they must really want you.</DIV><p>Message Edited by quetzaqotl on <span class=date_text>12-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:26 PM</span>

[SenorPhrog]

There are definetly a lot fewer clerics around these days.   A lot of retirees and people who just are tired of playing Cleric right now.   I'm not really sure where you were going with this but no, there aren't a ton of clerics anymore.

[Torninn]

<P>Heck, If I were you I'd demand that they remove the officer tag.  lol</P> <P> </P>

[Raistlan]

I'm actually a bit surprised at this, because in my guild Cleric's are the one subclass we have enough of.  3 active Templar's, 2 active Inquisitors, 2 semi-active Templars out of perhaps 60 active and semi-active players. I'll fix my sig one day <_< <div></div>

[Wildi]

Sure you will!

[Kendricke]

<P>By way of contrast, we have 8 Primary Templars (out of 12 total) in the Legion of the White Rose  Considering there's 75 active Primary memberships in the Legion, I'd say that's pretty significant.</P> <P> </P>

[Timaarit]

Well my guild used to have 8 primary clerics, now we have 2. 2 of those 8 still play cleric when needed, but that is rarely, 4 have quit playing cleric totally. <div></div>

[SenorPhrog]

My guild runs about 30-35ish active members (which comes out to 150 members when you consider alts) and I'm the only main Templar.    We have one other lower level Templar alt in the upper 20's and a low 20's Inquisitor.

[quetzaqotl]

My guild has 2 templars 4 inq 2 furies 2 wardens 1 mystic 0 defilers <p>Message Edited by quetzaqotl on <span class=date_text>12-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:36 AM</span>

[OlaeviaTraisharan]

<DIV>Hrm. My guild has 4 main templars that I know of. I only just hit 50 last night, and the others are 55, 56, and 60. We have a lot of Mystics, Wardens, and Furies too. There's one 49 Inquisitor.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The guild's pretty large, so apparently that's not a lot of healing by comparison.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think the thing is that healing just isn't really "cool" to play for most people. I personally can't stand not having a class that can't heal. I tried so desperately to play a Coercer and got fed up and quit her. Then I tried a Monk and didn't have much fun just killing things... then I tried to create a Druid and she's more fun <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My main role, my main PURPOSE in playing these MMO games is to heal. That's just what I do. I could see myself having one of every Qeynos-based healer eventually. Though I do really like to fill in needed roles in my guild for raiding.</DIV>

[Nari]

Hehe, there are only a few in my guild as well.  I like to think that what we lack in quantity, we make up for in quality. *hears the guild peanut gallery snickering* *barks 'Shut up you guys.'* <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Kendricke]

<P>Just had another application from a young Templar this morning.  According to the latest applications, it seems that we've gained a reputation as a haven for Templars (young and old alike).  </P> <P> </P>

[OlaeviaTraisharan]

<DIV>Guess y'all will be healing monsters to death by the time you're all raiding <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> lol</DIV>

[Copperha]

<P>My Guild,</P> <P>2 Active Templars remaining including me - I have several alts I now play when I can't find a hardcore fighting group and my guild does not need my help. The other templar has rolled an alt and is on the verge of shelving his Templar he is so frustrated with the class. </P> <P>1 Templar - 2box player (templar/guardian), sometimes played by his wife. Still going strong but very frustrated with the changes to both classes.</P> <P>1 Templar - only uses this character for trade-skills now. Plays a Ranger for adventuring.</P> <P>1 Templar - Character shelved, now has a swashbuckler as his main.</P> <P>2 Templars have quit completely.</P> <P>2 players had Priest alts they used to play fairly regularly (neither Templar) - both are shelved currently and both players have rolled new alts.</P> <P>1 Fury - quit</P> <P>1 Warden - quit</P> <P>1 Mystic - mostly happy - only groups with other guild members</P> <DIV>We now have alot of Rangers, Paladins, Wizards/Warlocks and Summoners. </DIV>

[RedFeather]

<P>Speaking from experience as well as from friend's accounts.</P> <P>Getting a cleric up to this point since the game's release is taxing on the patience bone. <EM><STRONG>Patience bone?!?</STRONG></EM><BR>What I mean is that cleric gameplay is quite lackluster compared to other classes. Soloing as a cleric is quite slow.<BR>Playing in groups can feel rather shallow, as our DPS potential and utilities aren't needed in a good group, therefore it's just power management and healing/curing.</P> <P>Myself, and others I've met who rolled a cleric since launch, have decided to play another class as a change of pace. <BR><EM><STRONG>I've found it's usually a scout based class!</STRONG></EM><BR>It didn't take long for most of us to fall in love with the drastic difference in gameplay and give our cleric main a rest.</P> <P>I wouldn't be surprised if this is a common path that many cleric players follow at some point in their toon's life. :smileyindifferent:</P> <P>No suggestions to change this. Just an observation. <BR>Time for sleeps. <FONT size=4>(-_-)</FONT><FONT size=2>zzz</FONT></P>

[Merrilee]

<P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">It is simple enough to test.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Do a /who all <subclass></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">On Antonia Bayle tonight, a weekday night, in order of numbers:</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">Templars – 92</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">Furies- 67</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">Wardens- 55</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">Inquisitors- 43</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">Mystics- 42</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">Defilers – 37</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>

[Kendricke]

<P>Guk server, 11:00 CST:</P> <P>61 Templars</P> <P>44 Furies</P> <P>31 Wardens</P> <P>28 Inquisitors</P> <P>22 Defilers</P> <P>19 Mystics</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[bigmak20]

<P>**REMOVED DUE TO INAPPROPRIATE COMMENTS**</P><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>12-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:38 AM</span>

[OlaeviaTraisharan]

<DIV>*SIGH* ANYWAY, back on topic...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I didn't do a run through on my server last night, because I didn't see this thread response until now, but I'll try to remember to do that tonight on Permafrost.</DIV>

[bigmak20]

I think the Tempalr population will be fairly high for some time.  Templar's are just a liked class.  We get neat armor and are perfectly adequate healers.  If you get a regular group we are even ok to play.  Especially if you don't like doing much.  And for a lot of people re-rolling is a really annoying thing to have to do.  Since Templar's were least broke for such a long time (sincere pity for all the other healers that were screwed so long) we are going to be a reasonably populated class.

[Kendricke]

<P>I'm actually seeing a great deal more "new" Templars than other priest classes...even now.  I'll repoll results tonight for Guk and break out the listings by Tier as well to see if it occurs again tonight.  I'll try several different times as well to give a better sampling.  I can keep this up for a few weeks if anyone sees merit to it.  </P> <P>So far though, even with limited samples, it does seem that the whole "Templars leaving in droves" theory isn't pulling as much weight as perhaps some may have thought.  It's apparant that the class is still quite popular.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Caethre]

OOC.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR> <P>So far though, even with limited samples, it does seem that the whole "Templars leaving in droves" theory isn't pulling as much weight as perhaps some may have thought.  It's apparant that the class is still quite popular.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Templar always was the most popular priest, indeed, second most popular class of all after Paladin, on my server, by a very large margin. I have not checked recently, but I completely believe Eillie's post above, that they will still be around in large numbers, since most people won't just swap classes for any reason. Some of these are casual and low-level, so even listing /who all XXXX 20 30 for all priest classes is still likely to result in more templars than any other one class. <STRONG>These sorts of spot checks do not indicate <EM>trends</EM> at all, and cannot be taken as an indication of anything when looked at in isolation.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, posts to this board make it pretty clear, the majority (not all) are posting about a reduction in the number of Templars, and it is what I see myself as I have levelled up Annaelisa in the last 6 weeks or so. How many Templars have posted they are retiring or re-rolling or playing only for guild in the last 2 months?  Now, go look on the Fury board, and make the same assessment.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, in-game, I see the actively levelling and questing players are jumping for all the obvious classes. Conjurors are on the up right now. So are Bruisers. And amongst healers, its Furies and Shamans. Everywhere I look, there are pesky lions and lionnesses running around it seems. Want one simple example? An open Torig raid I joined last week. Eight healers present - 4 Furies, 4 Shamans. No clerics. It is fairly typical of the trend I see across Antonia Bayle.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of course, 18+ hours a day I am logged in (and AFK) as my Templar, in my room selling as a Sage, and even when online, I'm often crafting too, so I'll count as a 'Templar' on such statistics.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But as you like to say, this is but one players opinion.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Caethre on <span class=date_text>12-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:47 PM</span>

[rollando]

<P> An interesting test would be to check the priests population in the 20th-40th level range.</P> <P>I do this alot on Runnyeye. While there are roughly the same amount of clerics and druids in the 20-60 range, I now count 3 druids for 2 clerics in the 20-40 one.</P>

[Kendricke]

<P>Templars were so incredibly popular prior to the combat revamp, that I can't help but presume that was due in at least part to how incredibly overpowered we were in regards to healing prowess.  It wasn't even <EM>close</EM>.  My group's were all but untouchable with myself as the healer and I wasn't even typically paying much attention - it simply wasn't necessary.</P> <P>This fits in neatly with certain theories of behavior, which basically states that people tend toward the path of least resistance.  It is very easy to argue Templars were the easiest healing class prior to the revamp.  Realistically speaking, we only competed for group spots against other Templars.  </P> <P>Honestly, is there anyone here who did NOT believe we'd see some Templars changing class after the revamp?  Anyone?  Who truly believe that the pre-revamp numbers would remain the same or even similar across the board?</P> <P>However, even with the reduction...there's far from "few of us".  We're STILL the most popular priest class that I'm seeing.  By far.  It's not even close and I believe that continuing to provide samples here for the next few weeks will most definately show this to be true.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by Kendricke on <span class=date_text>12-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:55 AM</span>

[Caethre]

OOC.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR> <P>Templars were so incredibly popular prior to the combat revamp, that I can't help but presume that was due in at least part to <STRONG>how incredibly overpowered we were</STRONG> in regards to healing prowess.  It wasn't even <EM>close</EM>.  My group's were all but untouchable with myself as the healer and I wasn't even typically paying much attention - it simply wasn't necessary.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You've said this before, but it is not manifest fact, far from it.</P> <P>Personally, I believe we were correctly powered. We were indeed the most powerful healers, but we were also the worst DPS, worst utility and worst soloers. This is what most players call "balance". The difference now is that we are equal healers and STILL the worst DPS, worst utility and worst soloers, and that certainly is NOT balanced.</P> <P>Now, as to popularity, that is another matter. At launch, ex-EQ1 players, with nothing else to go on, would have expected the Templar class to be the EQII version of the Cleric, and in EQ1, clerics were the undisputed best healers. Furthermore, the first months of play showed indeed that Templars were just that. Being the best healer was (and is) very popular, and it was clear as day that is precisely what we were. It is exactly why most of us here chose the class in the first place, regardless of all the weaknesses. This is why I have no sympathy for those few players who chose druid or shaman classes and then whined (and still whine) to be equal healers to clerics - if they wanted to be the best healer, it meant choosing the best healer (and we all knew which class that was). However, some players did not want to give up the much larger DPS, the lovely fun utilities and the great soloability of other priest classes, so made their choice. Most players actually were quite happy with it to.</P> <P>Yes, SoE muddied the water by putting out that comunique about equal healing, etc. However, it wasnt the reality, so most players (of all classes) ignored it. It was a PR disaster for them to then impose it 10 months into the game, and really that was a massive mistake. It should have been done before launch (in which case some of us would never have chosen Templar) or not at all. But that is history.</P> <P>Yes, SoE also didn't help the situation by putting out some of the non-cleric priest classes with broken spells. Shaman wards especially were a complete mess until LU13.</P> <P>There remains a "market" for a pure healing class, that is MUCH stronger than other healers, but weaker elsewhere. That, and only that, is why there were so many Templars at launch, and the numbers now are just a reflection of that.</P> <P> </P>

[Kendricke]

<P>Well, that's an interesting perspective on the subject.  Not one I personally subscribe to, but then I'm more of a <EM>caveat emptor</EM> type of person, typically.</P> <P> </P>

[OlaeviaTraisharan]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caethre wrote:<BR> OOC. <P>Now, as to popularity, that is another matter. At launch, ex-EQ1 players, with nothing else to go on, would have expected the Templar class to be the EQII version of the Cleric, and in EQ1, clerics were the undisputed best healers.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I'll be honest here and say that's why I initially chose Templar. My friends (who were crazy enough to buy me the game) told me this as well, so that's what I went with. I feel confident with my healing skills, but sometimes I feel like encounters were designed with two healers in the group in mind.<BR></DIV>

[Gcha]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OlaeviaTraisharan wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caethre wrote:<BR> OOC. <P>Now, as to popularity, that is another matter. At launch, ex-EQ1 players, with nothing else to go on, would have expected the Templar class to be the EQII version of the Cleric, and in EQ1, clerics were the undisputed best healers.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I'll be honest here and say that's why I initially chose Templar. My friends (who were crazy enough to buy me the game) told me this as well, so that's what I went with. I feel confident with my healing skills, but sometimes I feel like encounters were designed with two healers in the group in mind.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Absolutely.  Me too.  Even if there was conflicting information floating around out there somewhere, prospective players shouldn't have to undertake a research project to *try* to find out how things are going to be in a game ... something which would generally have been an exercise in futility anyway for most of us, having repeatedly seen how much things get changed after release of any game ... e.g., case in point.  It's an Everquest game ... it's a classic fantasy mmorpg ... there are clerics ... therefore people reasonably assumed that clerics will be roughly what they were in the prior Everquest game.   I don't recall anyone saying "if you liked things in EQ1 don't come here".</P> <P>People came to EQ2 because they anticipated it being the "next chapter", with advanced graphics and such, and because it was advertised as more geared to casual, solo, small group, and small raid play, something which was important to a lot of people, including me. </P>

[Andu]

<DIV>I became a Templar for that reason as well. I played a Druid in EQ1, hated being a gimped healer who couldn't get groups and made the concious decision to pick Cleric in this game to make sure that didn't happen again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>10 months later I wish I had let my heart rule my head and been a fury. Oh well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, as for data. On the Splitpaw forums Alluin has created a program that strips the EQ2players site of active account data and has shown how much of each class are in each level group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For Templars:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><U>Level</U>        <U>Percetage of Population</U></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>20 - 29     5.49%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>30 - 49     6.69%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>50 - 60     8.26%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For Furies:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>20 - 29     4.75%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>30 - 49     6.06%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>50 - 60     4.90%</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>For Conjurors:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>20 - 29     8.19%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>30 - 49     8.36%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>50 - 60     5.40%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now you can interpret all this how you like. The way I see it, the popularity of Templars is dropping like a stone. Conversely, Conjurors are the new flavour of the month, along with bruisers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Furies have to my mind a wave of ex-clerics levelling up alts in the same manner as Caethre. It looks like their population at lvl 60 in a few months time will be much higher. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the equal of Templars by then.</DIV></DIV></DIV>

[Aleph]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Anduri wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Furies have to my mind a wave of ex-clerics levelling up alts in the same manner as Caethre. It looks like their population at lvl 60 in a few months time will be much higher. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the equal of Templars by then.</DIV></DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Then furies will get nerfed and the templar forum will calm down again.:smileywink:<BR></DIV>

[Caethre]

OOC.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Alephin wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>Then furies will get nerfed and the templar forum will calm down again.:smileywink:<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>This possibility is certainly a concern. SoE do have a history of "nerfing" a popular class, especially if they are fun, and the Fury class is both right now. Nerfing the Fury class would be a terrible solution. It would not solve any of our problems (other than some jealousy related ones), but it would upset another class community, so I hope very much they do NOT do that. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a personal level, it would really annoy me as well, having just put the time into levelling up a Fury (and enjoying playing again into the bargain).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Templar issues (and to a lesser extent, Inquisitor too) could be addressed without hurting other classes, and I hope this is what happens. Infact, I hope, the only reason it is taking SoE so long to actually do anything ... is because they don't want to fix one class balance issue and create another. I really would love to be able to play Felishanna again and *not* feel like I'm leeching or playing at 1/3 speed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Felishanna [53 Templar]<BR>Annaelisa [50 Fury]</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[OlaeviaTraisharan]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caethre wrote:<BR>OOC.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Alephin wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>Then furies will get nerfed and the templar forum will calm down again.:smileywink:<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>This possibility is certainly a concern. SoE do have a history of "nerfing" a popular class, especially if they are fun, and the Fury class is both right now. Nerfing the Fury class would be a terrible solution. It would not solve any of our problems (other than some jealousy related ones), but it would upset another class community, so I hope very much they do NOT do that.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Well that's usually because if the class is considered "fun" and "popular" by the playerbase to the point that nearly everyone's rolling up a version of that class then something must be screwy with their balance. I'd take a guess that they at least crunch numbers and have design meetings on this kind of thing. It's not one guy sitting in the corner saying "OMG THERE ARE WAY TOO MANY FURIES! NERF NERF!" and then immediately throw in a negative 30% on their damage fields in the spells database <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope they don't go nerfing people either, but IMHO Furies shouldn't nuke for 2k+ damage and heal as well as us with MORE direct heals than us. However, keep in mind that I still and always will have the old EQ Cleric mentality.... soooooo I'm a little biased.<BR></DIV>

[KingOfF00LS]

<span><blockquote><hr>Caethre wrote:<div></div>Personally, I believe we were correctly powered. We were indeed the most powerful healers, but we were also the worst DPS, worst utility and worst soloers. This is what most players call "balance". The difference now is that we are equal healers and STILL the worst DPS, worst utility and worst soloers, and that certainly is NOT balanced. <p>Now, as to popularity, that is another matter. At launch, ex-EQ1 players, with nothing else to go on, would have expected the Templar class to be the EQII version of the Cleric, and in EQ1, clerics were the undisputed best healers. Furthermore, the first months of play showed indeed that Templars were just that. Being the best healer was (and is) very popular, and it was clear as day that is precisely what we were. It is exactly why most of us here chose the class in the first place, regardless of all the weaknesses. This is why I have no sympathy for those few players who chose druid or shaman classes and then whined (and still whine) to be equal healers to clerics - if they wanted to be the best healer, it meant choosing the best healer (and we all knew which class that was). However, some players did not want to give up the much larger DPS, the lovely fun utilities and the great soloability of other priest classes, so made their choice. Most players actually were quite happy with it to.</p><hr></blockquote>This is so obviously true and correct that I have to wonder how anyone could not possibly know this.  Once again, Caethre hits the nail squarely on the head. </span><div></div>

[Giallolas]

<P>I do not agree with the title "so few of us".  There is most certainly many of us.  The title should be "less of us".  I've been playing EQ2 since April 2005 and I too am an old EQ1 hand.  I was a cleric there and loved my class.  I came here with the same expectation that you guys did that the cleric would be a pure healing class.  Little utility, low dps, but powerful and dependable heals.  Everyone likes to be the best at something even if we have to sacrifice everything else to do it.  So myself and a great many others chose this class.</P> <P>Along comes LU13 and subsequently LU15 in which we lost ground each time.  Today, all healers are equal in healing power yet continued their utility and dps the same.  I've seen this displayed over and over on these forums.  But we love our class.  We love what it is "supposed" to be.  We are passionate and want to do our only job better than any others.  But now we do our only job equal to others and we do any other job worse than all others.  It hurts, and people have admittedly been shelving their templars over the last couple weeks.  Denying this trend and burying your head in the sand doesn't make it go away for the rest of the game.</P> <P>So what is the root of the problem and what are possible solutions?  The problem is in the class designs.  EQ1 was incredible in its diversity between the classes.  They did not even try to make each class equal.  Yeah, the necro was a mean soloer and so what?  You can make one if you like to solo.  Yeah the cleric was the top notch healer, no one stops you from making one.  But each class was different.  Do we have that now?  Can you say that you are that different from your fellow archetype next to you?  Nope, not anymore.  The 4 archetypes are priest, warrior, mage, and scout.  Now all priests heal equally with little variations in nuke power and utility.  We even get our spells with similar effects at exactly the same level.  Plate tanks are all the same.  Scouts are all dps with little variation.  Same with all the others.  The Shaman in EQ1 was vastly different from the Cleric, now they are the same.</P> <P>I digress and I apologize for that.  There are indeed less of us.  The only healers that have quit mains or quit the game in my guild are the templars.  The Warden, Fury, Mystic, and Defiler are actually excited.  My solution to this mess is to allow the classes to indeed be different.  Allow the Templar to once more be the most powerful healer and give the other priests the more powerful damage shields, buffs, dots, nukes, and other utilities.  Make me envy their versatility as they envy my heal power.  I know this means that some classes will be better than others...and that's ok.  I've found very few things fair in any game and trying to do that here is only breaking it.</P> <P>Thanks all,</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Giallolas on <span class=date_text>12-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:40 PM</span>

[Timaarit]

<div></div>32 templars 14 inquisitors 15 wardens 25 furies 15 mystics 16 defilers + 6 clerics + 11 druids + 6 shamans The last are under lvl 20. So seems to me that balance is changing to the direction that is not broken. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Timaarit on <span class=date_text>12-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:11 AM</span>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR> The last are under lvl 20. So seems to me that balance is changing to the direction that is not broken.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I'm confused by your statement.  Do you feel that all priests save Furies are are "broken"?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, you may be right there.  You may have hit the nail squarely on the head.  However, wouldn't you think it's also possible that it's simply a bit of perceptual "flavor of the month"?  That perhaps it's simply a matter of the path of least resistance?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Andu]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Timaarit wrote: <div></div>The last are under lvl 20. So seems to me that balance is changing to the direction that is not broken. <hr> </blockquote> <div>I'm confused by your statement.  Do you feel that all priests save Furies are are "broken"?  </div> <div> </div> <div>Now, you may be right there.  You may have hit the nail squarely on the head.  However, wouldn't you think it's also possible that it's simply a bit of perceptual "flavor of the month"?  That perhaps it's simply a matter of the path of least resistance?</div> <div> </div> <div>  </div><hr></blockquote> How on earth is levelling another character to level 60 "the path of least resistance"? The path of least resistance is to stick with the character you've got and pray for changes or quit the game and play something less borked.</span><div></div>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Anduri wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR> The last are under lvl 20. So seems to me that balance is changing to the direction that is not broken.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I'm confused by your statement.  Do you feel that all priests save Furies are are "broken"? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, you may be right there.  You may have hit the nail squarely on the head.  However, wouldn't you think it's also possible that it's simply a bit of perceptual "flavor of the month"?  That perhaps it's simply a matter of the path of least resistance?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>How on earth is levelling another character to level 60 "the path of least resistance"?<BR><BR>The path of least resistance is to stick with the character you've got and pray for changes or quit the game and play something less borked.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>That may very well not be your idea of a your path of least resistance.  However, I could name a good half-dozen names just within my guild that have already levelled up Tier VI Secondaries just since the Combat changes.  One player alone has managed to four-box a Guardian, Templar, Conjuror, and Troubador past level 55 in just the past 8 weeks.  Now, he hardly considers himself a "power" player, though others (including myself) would certain argue the point.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For him, if he's not enjoying a class, it's easier to start over.  Other Templars on this forum have found that to be a better choice as well apparantly, if the posts by Kaylena, Caethre, Gchang, and others are to be believed.  For them, it's a better fit to play as a Fury  than to play as a Templar.  To them, that may very well be the path of least resistance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We all have differing views on what is and is not easier or less frustrating.  For some, levelling is no issue at all, whereas for others, it's not even an option. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Andu]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Anduri wrote:<span> <blockquote> <hr> Kendricke wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Timaarit wrote: <div></div>The last are under lvl 20. So seems to me that balance is changing to the direction that is not broken. <hr> </blockquote> <div>I'm confused by your statement.  Do you feel that all priests save Furies are are "broken"? </div> <div> </div> <div>Now, you may be right there.  You may have hit the nail squarely on the head.  However, wouldn't you think it's also possible that it's simply a bit of perceptual "flavor of the month"?  That perhaps it's simply a matter of the path of least resistance?</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <hr> </blockquote>How on earth is levelling another character to level 60 "the path of least resistance"?The path of least resistance is to stick with the character you've got and pray for changes or quit the game and play something less borked.</span> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <div>That may very well not be your idea of a your path of least resistance.  However, I could name a good half-dozen names just within my guild that have already levelled up Tier VI Secondaries just since the Combat changes.  One player alone has managed to four-box a Guardian, Templar, Conjuror, and Troubador past level 55 in just the past 8 weeks.  Now, he hardly considers himself a "power" player, though others (including myself) would certain argue the point.</div> <div> </div> <div>For him, if he's not enjoying a class, it's easier to start over.  Other Templars on this forum have found that to be a better choice as well apparantly, if the posts by Kaylena, Caethre, Gchang, and others are to be believed.  For them, it's a better fit to play as a Fury  than to play as a Templar.  To them, that may very well be the path of least resistance.</div> <div> </div> <div>We all have differing views on what is and is not easier or less frustrating.  For some, levelling is no issue at all, whereas for others, it's not even an option. </div> <div> </div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>You missed the point entirely. The point is not what options people choose as their "path of least resistance". It's why any Templar should feel that it is easier and more fun for them to go through the process of relevelling another character instead of playing the one that they currently had and were enjoying up until that point. Especially at a time when new content had been released, content that would be denied to them for a long period if they had to start from scratch. All this in stark contrast to most other classes. I bet I will not find many posts on the Fury forum since September stating that they are quitting the class and rerolling Templars. Clearly the "path of least resistance" for 99.99% of them at the moment is to play Furies. </span><div></div>

[rollando]

<DIV>On Runnyeye at 9 PM GMT, /who all cleric 20 40 : 28<BR>                                              /who all druid 20 40 : 36</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would not say that clerics are the most popular healers now :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by rollando on <span class=date_text>12-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:05 PM</span>

[SatinyCh]

<DIV>It's actually rather nice, we're seeing a larger diversity of the healer classes, which I love. My Templar is great,  but there were always too many of them. Despite the fact that the priest class has become more androgynous, its still nice to see more people playing druids and shamans.</DIV>

[Kendricke]

<P>Templar 67</P> <P>Fury 49</P> <P>Warden 41</P> <P>Inquisitor 35</P> <P>Mystic 27</P> <P>Defiler 19</P> <P>9:40 Eastern - Guk server</P> <P> </P>

[Timaarit]

Hehe, once again Kend was hit with something he can't argue and once again he remains silent till he sees fit to bring up his original opinion about how people should pick another class to enjoy the game. Kend, you fill the description of a troll. I am suprcided. <div></div>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR>Hehe, once again Kend was hit with something he can't argue and once again he remains silent till he sees fit to bring up his original opinion about how people should pick another class to enjoy the game.<BR><BR>Kend, you fill the description of a troll. I am suprcided.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Baiting will do you no good here.  Truth be told, I had a post eaten by the forums, and frankly did not feel up to reposting it quite yet.  I've chosen instead to just go to data collection instead.</P> <P> </P>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote: <p>Baiting will do you no good here.  Truth be told, I had a post eaten by the forums, and frankly did not feel up to reposting it quite yet.  I've chosen instead to just go to data collection instead.</p><div></div><hr></blockquote>Yeah, each their own reality. At least you got that right.</span><div></div>

[kenji]

the number shows nothing to me.<BR> <DIV>is all the templar playing his class happy?</DIV> <DIV>for me, no, absolutely not.<BR>i think Kend has lots of logs, any log compare with Temp and Inquisitor on heal, any log compare with Temp and Druid on dps, any log with buffs? heh, if u read them all, i dont think u can still happy with Templar class atm.<BR><BR>[edit] forgot to mention that i maybe 1 of the Templar online, but i am just online selling, and craft. it doesnt matter of my class. pls do a -1 <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by kenjiso on <span class=date_text>12-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:20 PM</span>

[ginfress]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote: <P><BR>Baiting will do you no good here.  Truth be told, I had a post eaten by the forums, and frankly did not feel up to reposting it quite yet.  I've chosen instead to just go to data collection instead.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, each their own reality. At least you got that right.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[ginfress]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> kenjiso wrote:<BR> the number shows nothing to me.<BR> <DIV>is all the templar playing his class happy?</DIV> <DIV>for me, no, absolutely not.<BR>i think Kend has lots of logs, any log compare with Temp and Inquisitor on heal, any log compare with Temp and Druid on dps, any log with buffs? heh, if u read them all, i dont think u can still happy with Templar class atm.<BR><BR>[edit] forgot to mention that i maybe 1 of the Templar online, but i am just online selling, and craft. it doesnt matter of my class. pls do a -1 <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <P>Message Edited by kenjiso on <SPAN class=date_text>12-07-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:20 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>True and most likely my wife is one of the templars on AB too on that list. She is unhappy with her class and the only reason she keeps playing it because she can duo with me and do stuff with me while most other classes can do those quests on their own in a high speed templars drool over. Numbers mean nothing, people's feelings about the class do. But hell if you dont fit in with the positive templars you get shot down on the forums and in the game as she found out.<p>Message Edited by ginfress on <span class=date_text>12-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:45 AM</span>

[Andu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ginfress wrote:<BR> <BR>True and most likely my wife is one of the templars on AB too on that list. She is unhappy with her class and the only reason she keeps playing it because she can duo with me and do stuff with me while most other classes can do those quests on their own in a high speed templars drool over. Numbers mean nothing, people's feelings about the class do. But hell if you dont fit in with the positive templars you get shot down on the forums and in the game as she found out. <P>Message Edited by ginfress on <SPAN class=date_text>12-08-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:45 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I am the same. My Templar is logged on a fair bit to help out in guild raids and what-not. My alt is levelling fast though and soon my Templar will be sidelined.<BR>

[SenorPhrog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ginfress wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> kenjiso wrote:<BR> the number shows nothing to me.<BR> <DIV>is all the templar playing his class happy?</DIV> <DIV>for me, no, absolutely not.<BR>i think Kend has lots of logs, any log compare with Temp and Inquisitor on heal, any log compare with Temp and Druid on dps, any log with buffs? heh, if u read them all, i dont think u can still happy with Templar class atm.<BR><BR>[edit] forgot to mention that i maybe 1 of the Templar online, but i am just online selling, and craft. it doesnt matter of my class. pls do a -1 <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <P>Message Edited by kenjiso on <SPAN class=date_text>12-07-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:20 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>True and most likely my wife is one of the templars on AB too on that list. She is unhappy with her class and the only reason she keeps playing it because she can duo with me and do stuff with me while most other classes can do those quests on their own in a high speed templars drool over. Numbers mean nothing, people's feelings about the class do. But hell if you dont fit in with the positive templars you get shot down on the forums and in the game as she found out. <P>Message Edited by ginfress on <SPAN class=date_text>12-08-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:45 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Nobody should be "shooting anyone down" especially here.  The feelings about your class are an integral part of why you play it.  I'm kind of curious where the "positive templars" are though.   You make it sound like their is a society of them somewhere.   People are allowed to disagree with you here and in game but you should never feel like your opinion isn't valued.</P> <DIV>Parse data makes me want to put sharp objects in my eye but I've looked at it before.   Yes, it can be skewed and its hard to make class comparisons just based on it.   I'm no champion of solo abilities for Templars but I absolutely agree that Templars should be able to solo at least the solo quest content that has been put in the game.</DIV>

[Craig3]

<DIV> <P><SPAN>Ditto for me.   Shortly after revamp I was miserable so I rolled an "alt" which is now my main. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Since revamp my templar has gone from 45 to 48 and my Illusionist is now at 49. My templar is relegated to selling, gathering and provisioning and is still logged on quite a bit so might even be reflected in the numbers.</SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>I confirmed I had made the right decision a couple of weeks ago when I was helping some friends new to the game. They had shards scattered all over Antonica <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and I was escorting them around to do pick-up. As I cleared the way, it was very very disheartening to take multiple casts to kill a level 15 gnoll and at one point I got a couple of interrupts trying to cast.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>I’m sure over time I’ll manage to level the templar from helping guildies but I can’t imagine trying to roll a templar now. I'm only a casual player and wouldn't even attempt to calculate how long it would take to level a new templar.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P></DIV><p>Message Edited by Craig300 on <span class=date_text>12-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:06 AM</span>

[ginfress]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Radar-X wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ginfress wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> kenjiso wrote:<BR> the number shows nothing to me.<BR> <DIV>is all the templar playing his class happy?</DIV> <DIV>for me, no, absolutely not.<BR>i think Kend has lots of logs, any log compare with Temp and Inquisitor on heal, any log compare with Temp and Druid on dps, any log with buffs? heh, if u read them all, i dont think u can still happy with Templar class atm.<BR><BR>[edit] forgot to mention that i maybe 1 of the Templar online, but i am just online selling, and craft. it doesnt matter of my class. pls do a -1 <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <P>Message Edited by kenjiso on <SPAN class=date_text>12-07-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:20 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>True and most likely my wife is one of the templars on AB too on that list. She is unhappy with her class and the only reason she keeps playing it because she can duo with me and do stuff with me while most other classes can do those quests on their own in a high speed templars drool over. Numbers mean nothing, people's feelings about the class do. But hell if you dont fit in with the positive templars you get shot down on the forums and in the game as she found out. <P>Message Edited by ginfress on <SPAN class=date_text>12-08-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:45 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Nobody should be "shooting anyone down" especially here.  The feelings about your class are an integral part of why you play it.  I'm kind of curious where the "positive templars" are though.   You make it sound like their is a society of them somewhere.   People are allowed to disagree with you here and in game but you should never feel like your opinion isn't valued.</P> <DIV>Parse data makes me want to put sharp objects in my eye but I've looked at it before.   Yes, it can be skewed and its hard to make class comparisons just based on it.   I'm no champion of solo abilities for Templars but I absolutely agree that Templars should be able to solo at least the solo quest content that has been put in the game.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Edit: removed first bit. Using a PM to Raijn and hope these templar boards will improve<BR></P> <P>About data. I asked 10 templars after the resttart how they felt about their class and the way SoE develops the class:</P> <P>happy: 2</P> <P>unhappy: 4</P> <P>dont care: 4</P> <P>Now those 4 unhappy have the general feeling off: I still play the class to help friends afterall thats why i became a templar. But if i had to choose again it would have been another healing class.</P> <P> </P> <P>I know though that this is just a small example about trying to say that you shouldnt look at hard numbers, but at the toughts why people play.</P> <P>Message Edited by ginfress on <SPAN class=date_text>12-08-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:09 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by ginfress on <span class=date_text>12-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:44 PM</span>

[Viane]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Radar-X wrote <DIV>Parse data makes me want to put sharp objects in my eye but I've looked at it before.   Yes, it can be skewed and its hard to make class comparisons just based on it.   I'm no champion of solo abilities for Templars but I absolutely agree that Templars should be able to solo at least the solo quest content that has been put in the game.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Agree completely.  I decided to dig my temp out again after reaching 60 and try to work on a few "soloable" quests.  Killing anything on a timer for a quest with a templar is a joke.  I'm working on quests 5 levels below me, all of the mobs are green or gray, and I can barely complete them in time between the interrupts, the fizzles, and pathetic nukes.  And yes I am in almost all legendary/fabled gear, and almost all spells are at least adept 3.  I can't imagine trying to do these at the intended levels solo.  At this point, I'm simply trying to finish one of two of the DoF quests, other than that I dont play my templar at all except for raiding situations (we only have 2 active left in guild). </P> <P>Celestia-lvl 60 Templar</P>

[RedFeather]

<DIV>If SOE wants people who like to solo on and off to choose another class other than a cleric based, I understand.</DIV> <DIV>If the ability to solo is something that a cleric player should be able to enjoy as well I can only suggest that cleric fighters be given a concentration cost, self-cast only, spell that lowers healing prowess/mitigation but boosts offensive abilities.</DIV> <DIV>This will help speed up solo fights with a cleric character, without making them any different in difficultly. Just moves the fight along faster. That's what I feel we really need!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From my days long ago of playing World of Warcraft, I really did enjoy the ability of a priest to switch from shadow to holy. The shadow spec'd priest could boost their offensive abilities at the cost of their defensive ones.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the end, I find I function well enough within a group. That's not the problem at all! </DIV> <DIV>It's when I choose to solo that it really hurts to be a cleric. :smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[Kendricke]

<P>8:47 Central Time -Guk Server</P> <P>62 Templars<BR>43 Furies<BR>36 Mystics<BR>29 Warden<BR>23 Inquisitor<BR>19 Defilers<BR></P> <P> </P>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote:<div></div> <p>8:47 Central Time -Guk Server</p> <p>62 Templars43 Furies36 Mystics29 Warden23 Inquisitor19 Defilers</p> <hr></blockquote>= 85 clerics, 79 druids and 65 shamans. A clear proof that amount of clerics is dropping from what it used to be. Now next time, put the amount of lvl 10 to 19 following that list so we see the new players also.</span><div></div>

[Supernova17]

Fortitude on Kithicor Level 38 - Server's Raiding Guild Our Priest lineup: 1 Templar (me), 1 Inquisitor, 1 Fury, 2 Wardens, 1 Mystic, 2 Defilers Roughly 28 active raiders, we closed recruitment for Clerics because we're too [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good and active =D I think we still have a spot open for a Fury, but they'd only be recruited for patch healing. <span>:smileysurprised:</span> <div></div>

[kenji]

<P>patch healing sure go for Fury...fastest cast, fastest recast, aka fastest full heal duration and able to double direct heal value. with same power ratio.</P> <P>unless u are crazy, or u will find Templar or Defiler to be patch healing priest lol</P>

[ginfress]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR> <P>8:47 Central Time -Guk Server</P> <P>62 Templars<BR>43 Furies<BR>36 Mystics<BR>29 Warden<BR>23 Inquisitor<BR>19 Defilers<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>= 85 clerics, 79 druids and 65 shamans. A clear proof that amount of clerics is dropping from what it used to be. Now next time, put the amount of lvl 10 to 19 following that list so we see the new players also.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>And how many of those are playing the char or using it to tradeskill or using it for sale...and how many clerics of those 62 are still happy with the current changes. Numbers mean nothing Kendricke but you already knew that.

[BenEm]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ginfress wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR> <P>8:47 Central Time -Guk Server</P> <P>62 Templars<BR>43 Furies<BR>36 Mystics<BR>29 Warden<BR>23 Inquisitor<BR>19 Defilers<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>= 85 clerics, 79 druids and 65 shamans. A clear proof that amount of clerics is dropping from what it used to be. Now next time, put the amount of lvl 10 to 19 following that list so we see the new players also.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>And how many of those are playing the char or using it to tradeskill or using it for sale...and how many clerics of those 62 are still happy with the current changes. Numbers mean nothing Kendricke but you already knew that. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>That and gee how come their used to be 3 times the Templars as any of the Healing classes at least on Guk, Steamfont ,and Bayle I used to laugh at that all the time the gap is closing at a clip that hasent been seen before . Guess I was right so long ago when LU 13 hit . Oh well ;(<BR>

[rollando]

<DIV>Another gone templar on Runnyeye. Account cancelled today.</DIV>

[RipFlex]

<P>**REMOVED TROLL POST**</FONT></P><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>12-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:03 PM</span>

[Takeo1]

<P>**REMOVED TROLL POST**</FONT></P><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>12-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:47 PM</span>

[Timaarit]

Well, looks like Kend went silent. I guess he didn't like the results of his population comparisons. <div></div>

[kenji]

<DIV>he probably went to Test board <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[quetzaqotl]

<P>Lol well well why does every thread have to result in some kendricke bashing, thats really sad hehe.</P> <P>If one class has to be on the barricades about numbers per server it should be defilers dont you agree?</P> <P>And why's that why are defilers the least played healers?</P> <P> </P>

[Timaarit]

<P>**REMOVED TROLL POST**</P><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>12-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:46 PM</span>

[Viane]

<P>10:30 pm on Faydark</P> <P>Templar-37</P> <P>Inquisitor-11</P> <P>Warden-32</P> <P>Fury-43</P> <P>Mystic-30</P> <P>Defiler-9</P> <P>And I was even on my templar for a change.....</P>

[Andu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> quetzaqotl wrote:<BR> <P>Lol well well why does every thread have to result in some kendricke bashing, thats really sad hehe.</P> <P>If one class has to be on the barricades about numbers per server it should be defilers dont you agree?</P> <P>And why's that why are defilers the least played healers?</P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I'd swap to defiler at the drop of a hat if I could keep my level.</P> <P>My guild are desperate for more.</P>

[BenEm]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR> <P>I'm actually seeing a great deal more "new" Templars than other priest classes...even now.  I'll repoll results tonight for Guk and break out the listings by Tier as well to see if it occurs again tonight.  I'll try several different times as well to give a better sampling.  I can keep this up for a few weeks if anyone sees merit to it.  </P> <P>So far though, even with limited samples, it does seem that the whole "Templars leaving in droves" theory isn't pulling as much weight as perhaps some may have thought.  It's apparant that the class is still quite popular.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Holy smokes its like this guy just ignores the 50 to 1 posts that Temps are quiting or now use their Char only to help guildies or that they have been turned into harvest mules and the like . Kenny is seeing a great deal more "New Templars" Bwahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha . Hello ???? Funny as all get out ! Oh and Kenny yes you are gaining a reputation ....its just not the one you think you are <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV>

[BenEm]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> quetzaqotl wrote:<BR> <P>Lol well well why does every thread have to result in some kendricke bashing, thats really sad hehe.</P> <P>If one class has to be on the barricades about numbers per server it should be defilers dont you agree?</P> <P>And why's that why are defilers the least played healers?</P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Simple answer friend : In life, one reeps what they sow <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[Timaarit]

Latest at lvl 10 to 19: 5 clerics, 8 druids and 6 shamans. total lvl 10 to 60: 45 clerics, 45 druids and 37 shamans. I'd say Kend will not have a comment on this one. <div></div>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR>Latest at lvl 10 to 19: 5 clerics, 8 druids and 6 shamans. <BR><BR>total lvl 10 to 60: 45 clerics, 45 druids and 37 shamans.<BR><BR>I'd say Kend will not have a comment on this one.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well, Tima,</P> <P>I'd say that including wardens and inquisitors into the equation doesn't answer the question actually being raised.  ...unless we're now going to finally begin comparing more priests against one another than just Furies and Templars.</P> <P> </P>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote: <p>Well, Tima,</p> <p>I'd say that including wardens and inquisitors into the equation doesn't answer the question actually being raised.  ...unless we're now going to finally begin comparing more priests against one another than just Furies and Templars.</p><div></div><hr></blockquote>No need. Furies are the standard and the perfect example of a working healer. All healers should be compared to them and improved accordingly. Like I said, if you really want to see where the imbalance is, you need to step to the other side of the fence and either make a tank or a fury. Then you will see how things really are instead of guessing, hoping and thinking that 'we are best healers even though all facts say otherwise'.</span><div></div>

[Kendricke]

<DIV>Ok then, why include Inquisitors (one of the least popular priest classes historically) and wardens (one of the most popular priest classes historically)?  Break out the Templars and Furies...or else we're discussing skewed statistics.  After breaking out the numbers, if you want to point out that Furies+Wardens equal more than Templars+Inquisitors, then we can discuss this with more even footing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just note that even without the recent revamp, Wardens and Furies can come from either city, whereas Templars and Inquisitors are locked subclasses.  Druids are the "neutral" priests.  It's another factor to note in dealing with raw numbers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[quetzaqotl]

<P>**REMOVED TROLL POST**</P><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>12-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:24 PM</span>

[RedFeather]

<P>Is the reason for there being more templars than inquisitors because people like Qeynos more than Freeport?<BR>I wish there were more inquisitors, so that I could talk to more people about strategies and stuff. :smileysad:</P> <P>Freeport has lots of neat stuff! It has fire....and dust....and NPCs that say mean things all the time. :smileyindifferent:</P>

[Raijinn]

<DIV>Hey folks the flaming really needs to stop or I will have to shut this thread down. Thanks for understanding!</DIV>

[kenji]

but which priest here will reroll a templar over any other priest class atm?

[Timaarit]

<P>**REMOVED INAPPROPRIATE POST**</P><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>12-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:19 PM</span>

[Timaarit]

<P>**REMOVED FOR INAPPROPRIATE POST**</P><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>12-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:26 PM</span>

[quetzaqotl]

<P>I have yet to see  a standard Tim, youve been saying this over and over again but who ever said furies were the standard has anyone done a good class vs class comparison yet or do we have to take your twisted word on it?</P> <P> </P>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote>quetzaqotl wrote:<p>I have yet to see  a standard Tim, youve been saying this over and over again but who ever said furies were the standard has anyone done a good class vs class comparison yet or do we have to take your twisted word on it?</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>Nice avoidance you have. Wanna answer the question too? Here is the deal, if I am to compare templar to other healers, I am going to compare furies to them too. If I am to improve tempalr to that status, I am to nerf furies to that status too to get balance. Understood? Now, do you really call for nerfing furies? If not, then you might reconsider your standing on where to compare and upgrade templars.</span><div></div>

[quetzaqotl]

<P>**REMOVED TROLL POST**</P><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>12-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:24 PM</span>

[Nari]

Actually, maybe you should compare all priests and have us all nerfed down to where we are as appealing as defilers, then. <div></div>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>quetzaqotl wrote:<p>Lol grow up Tim youre the one avoiding with your silly comments and putting things in other peoples mouth grow up already?</p> <p>I made myself clear enough if you dont understand too bad but I can't say I didnt expect that anyways.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>So you want furies nerfed. Or do you actually have something to say yourself?</span><div></div>

[quetzaqotl]

<P>**REMOVED TROLL POST**</P><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>12-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:23 PM</span>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>quetzaqotl wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div>more noise tim more noise quite dumb noise too right there go read.</div> <div>Id like to see a valid comparison: archtype wide.</div> <div>Btw have you ever posted anything constructive on these boards ever? All I can see is you being hostile and posting silly [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] like this ah well.</div> <div>Go ahead and post more junk Tim amuse me.And why is it that every thread you post in is bound to get locked? hmmm</div><p>Message Edited by quetzaqotl on <span class="date_text">12-15-2005</span> <span class="time_text">06:04 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Well, I see you make a lot od noise but very little substance. If you so much like to see the compsrison you are talking about, do it yourself. As simple as that. What you are demanding is someone else to do thing you yourself dont want to. So since you are not willing to do the comparison yourself, I will presume you dont actually want to see one, you just like to keep on trolling.</span><div></div>

[SenorPhrog]

<P>Tim, Tim, Tim.....if it's one thing I can claim to know a lot about it's trolls (and yeah I know what you're thinking and it's not the worst I've been called) and what they do.</P> <P>Our friend Quetza...quetz....bah we'll just call him Stolen Final Fantasy name.  Now SFF here is apparently very protective of his class and just might be looking to pick a fight.   </P> <P>Now SFF is also avoiding the Templar issues right now and attacking you personally which means you guys apparently have some type of history (maybe you dated his sister or something and it didn't work out).</P> <P>Profanity, attacking weaknesses, and weak paragraph structure are tell tale signs of an attack on character.   The sheer fact that there aren't any points to really argue in his last 2 posts show us that the arguement is thin if exsistent.</P> <P>In short, you're wasting your time on him.   Yeah you're a little negative Tim but I think you're heart is in the right place and this really isn't worth your time.</P> <P> </P> <P>Now I'll charge my usual fee of 1 peso which I can take cash, check, credit, or just a laugh.  </P>

[Nari]

Radar, if my heart didn't belong to that two-timing elven conjuror, I would ask you to marry me. <div></div>

[Timaarit]

Radar I know, I'm just bored at work sometimes. <div></div>

[quetzaqotl]

You can think of me what you will but Im just a guy who took the bait.

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>quetzaqotl wrote:You can think of me what you will but Im just a guy who took the bait. <div></div><hr></blockquote>... and put it in a hook.</span><div></div>

[Xerxess]

<DIV>what does <SPAN><FONT size=2>Sanctioned</FONT> </SPAN>mean under their names?</DIV>

[Isim]

<P>Since this class requires more than a little tweaking to makeing it a fun class to play, Misi (lvl 50) is now the mule for my new main, Simi (lvl 45 ranger) on the AB server.</P> <P> I seriously doubt that the devs will make the changes requiered for templars to be an overall fun class to play in all areas of the game.</P> <P>So to all the people that say if you dont like your class, reroll. Remember that when you are looking for a healer</P> <DIV>take care all, see you in game <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Cowdenic]

Templar lvl 60 is for raids only.