Good grief...

[Melanctha]

<font color="#ffccff"><font size="2">Clerics kill sooo fregg'in slow! I've been murdering and pilaging all day and only made 15% xp, and about 8% debt.. I demand to be able to equip a war axe! It won't help.. but I will somehow feel better about this! Seriously though.. My main is a lv51 warden and this lv18 Cleric is my new alt.. I love her in groups, but how in the hell do you people stand soloing? It feels like trying to chop down a tree with a spoon... </font></font><div></div>

[Quijonsith]

<span><blockquote><hr>Melanctha wrote:<font color="#ffccff"><font size="2">how in the hell do you people stand soloing? It feels like trying to chop down a tree with a spoon... </font></font><div></div><hr></blockquote>Wow, now that statement summs up how I feel about soloing on my 52 templar quite well.  /applaud  you hit the nail on the head.</span><div></div>

[Zabumt]

<DIV>Welcome to being a Templar hehe.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Nindor2]

I mainly solo my templar and have managed to reach L56 so far. Leveling any alt later should be a breeze. <div></div>

[Taranwen]

/em agree with OP been saying this forever (ok since the big combat change) and we dont avoid anything, no parry skills. wouldnt you think that is we were trained as "battle priests" (hence the heavy armor) we would have some knowledge of BATTLE?!...like not getting hit everytime an enemy throws a punch. <div></div>

[Cowdenic]

<P>And the Templars said</P> <P> </P> <P>AMEN</P>

[Andu]

ROFL .. and you're only 18. Brace yourself, it gets much worse. <div></div>

[kenji]

<DIV>i hope the OP is kidding, the soloing speed at lvl 18 is SO much faster than 50+....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>[edit] unless the OP is using app1 spell to dps and heal <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by kenjiso on <span class=date_text>11-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:14 PM</span>

[bigmak20]

<DIV>lol.. L18.  Wow.  In 30 levels your solo rate will be .. um.. 30 times slower?  hehe.  Well; not quite that bad.  But 18 is FAST compared to mid 30s on up. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The MoBs start getting more relative hitpoints and our dps doesn't scale with them.</DIV>

[Wossname]

<span><blockquote><hr>Melanctha wrote:<font color="#ffccff"><font size="2">Clerics kill sooo fregg'in slow! I've been murdering and pilaging all day and only made 15% xp, and about 8% debt.. I demand to be able to equip a war axe! It won't help.. but I will somehow feel better about this! Seriously though.. My main is a lv51 warden and this lv18 Cleric is my new alt.. I love her in groups, but how in the hell do you people stand soloing? It feels like trying to chop down a tree with a spoon... </font></font><div></div><hr></blockquote></span>The simple answer to your question is: I don't. I gave up soloing my 45 Templar after LU13 because it's too painful, slow, boring and un-fun. I'm quite lucky in that I have a regular group of friends who need a healer so the Templar isn't retired. I have to say my Wizard alt is coming along nicely, played him all weekend and had a blast (no pun intended). Some soloing, some grouping. If you want to solo, choose another class because Templars currently stink at it. <div></div>

[Amey]

<P>never solo either. just too mindnumbingly slow and painful. Doesn't really bother me cos I prefer grouping, altho it does for the writs. Imagine how long it would take me to solo to a prefix for celestial watch. doesn't bear thinking about.</P>

[Jhaan-Kre]

<P>Its painful to solo as any healer im afraid <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>And before anyone says anything, furies solo too [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] slow too generally, and i got all the way to 60 grouped, or i would tradeskill...soloing sucks.</P>

[SenorPhrog]

<DIV>Mel is in my guild and we've managed to find her some regular groups and she seems a little happier now.   Trying to solo....silly silly Mel.  We'll make you a masochist yet.</DIV>

[Stjarna Kvar]

I never solo. I either group or dualbox. Wish i could solo... I'd feel more efficient.

[Kizee]

<DIV>Boggles me why people pick clerics to solo with.</DIV>

[Elya]

 Last night a guild mate kind of put things in perspective for me. He asked me which of my toons was the one I liked best. I answered without hesitation, my templar. Do I dislike how they have made my wonderful templar into a pansy? Hell no. However, she is still the toon I prefer to play. I solo still, abeit painfully. Duoing is still wonderful, and I now prefer to craft or duo or do green quests if I can't get a partner.  I must be crazy, but then again, I played a bard in EQ live through the up times and the down times, so I am kind of used to being less than optimized.

[Elya]

 double post grr lag!<p>Message Edited by Elyana on <span class=date_text>11-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:38 AM</span>

[Caethre]

<P>OOC.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <DIV>Boggles me why people pick clerics to solo with.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Why?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why should the cleric be viewed as a non-solo class in EQ2? <FONT color=#ff0000>This attitude of "why solo with a cleric?" has to go, forever.</FONT> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>I created a cleric at the start of EQ2 knowing full well I'd be soloing much of the time, and it didn't concern me that I was slower than some other priests because I was so much stronger as a healer than those other priests at that time, even in normal XP groups, even in duos and trios for that matter. But I created her expressly TO SOLO when I needed to, for quests, or when friends or suitable groupmates were not online. I solo with a cleric because I want to and I believe I should be able to.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But at launch, I might forgive you for saying what you said in this quote. However, now, I will not, it is simply an unacceptable and out of date attitude since LU13.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>As we are continually reminded, this is not EQ1. Clerics are not the above-all super-powerful healers. And the druid classes make EXCELLENT solo classes (as priests, as main group healers, etc). Heck, Annaelisa is a fantastically powerful soloer. And she can heal as well as any cleric of her level. Why should be Templar accept being "[Removed for Content]", "pathetically weak", etc, as a soloer (and in small groups)? Why is this out of date perception even existing at this point???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are a Templar, with this view, you need to take a step back and think this through. If you are not a Templar, you are merely being greedy if you expect to have equal healind AND an advantage elsewhere. I would only reply to your out-of-date statement</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>      "Why make a cleric to solo?"</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>with the equivalent one that goes with it :-</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>      "Why make a druid or shaman if you expect to be more than a weak back-up healer?"</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and see how you like that statement.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Alternatively, we can get up to date with the reality of EQ2 *now* .. and accept that all priests are now equal healers, so there is no *%^*$ reason why all priests should not be equally effective soloers. There is absolutely ZERO ZILCH NONE ZIP reasons why clerics should solo less well than, for example, druids. It is all out-of-date perception to think otherwise, and it needs to be updated.</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Felishanna [53 Templar] ... a healer and nothing else of value</DIV> <DIV>Annaelisa [42 Fury] ... equal to any Templar her level at healing, but far stronger in many other regards.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Elya]

Felishanna... BRAVO! Couldn't have said it better if I tried.

[Stjarna Kvar]

Bravo! Well said.

[Kizee]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caethre wrote:<BR> <P>OOC.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <DIV>Boggles me why people pick clerics to solo with.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>If you are a Templar, with this view, you need to take a step back and think this through. If you are not a Templar, you are merely being greedy if you expect to have equal healind AND an advantage elsewhere. I would only reply to your out-of-date statement</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>      "Why make a cleric to solo?"</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>with the equivalent one that goes with it :-</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>      "Why make a druid or shaman if you expect to be more than a weak back-up healer?"</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and see how you like that statement.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Alternatively, we can get up to date with the reality of EQ2 *now* .. and accept that all priests are now equal healers, so there is no *%^*$ reason why all priests should not be equally effective soloers. There is absolutely ZERO ZILCH NONE ZIP reasons why clerics should solo less well than, for example, druids. It is all out-of-date perception to think otherwise, and it needs to be updated.</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Felishanna [53 Templar] ... a healer and nothing else of value</DIV> <DIV>Annaelisa [42 Fury] ... equal to any Templar her level at healing, but far stronger in many other regards.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>So quick to go off the deep end :p</P> <P>I am a templar (level 60) and I still love my character but people that rolled a templar expecting to solo fast should have thought things out better. </P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Granted that we were alot better before the revamp but adding DPS to templars is a big mistake....we need a couple more good buffs or kick our healing alittle ahead of the other healers since we solo so poorly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why make a shaman or druid if you expect to be more than a weak back-up healer.....maybe because thats what they are.... jack of all trades and masters of none. (or they are suppost to be)</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kizee on <span class=date_text>11-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:12 AM</span>

[SenorPhrog]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kizee wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Caethre wrote: <p>OOC.</p> <blockquote> <hr> Kizee wrote: <div>Boggles me why people pick clerics to solo with.</div> <hr> </blockquote> <div> </div> <div> <div> <div> <div>If you are a Templar, with this view, you need to take a step back and think this through. If you are not a Templar, you are merely being greedy if you expect to have equal healind AND an advantage elsewhere. I would only reply to your out-of-date statement</div> <div> </div> <div><font color="#ffff00">      "Why make a cleric to solo?"</font></div> <div> </div> <div>with the equivalent one that goes with it :-</div> <div> </div> <div><font color="#ffff00">      "Why make a druid or shaman if you expect to be more than a weak back-up healer?"</font></div> <div> </div> <div>and see how you like that statement.</div> <div> </div> <div>Alternatively, we can get up to date with the reality of EQ2 *now* .. and accept that all priests are now equal healers, so there is no *%^*$ reason why all priests should not be equally effective soloers. There is absolutely ZERO ZILCH NONE ZIP reasons why clerics should solo less well than, for example, druids. It is all out-of-date perception to think otherwise, and it needs to be updated.</div></div></div></div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Felishanna [53 Templar] ... a healer and nothing else of value</div> <div>Annaelisa [42 Fury] ... equal to any Templar her level at healing, but far stronger in many other regards.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>So quick to go off the deep end :p</p> <p>I am a templar (level 60) and I still love my character but people that rolled a templar expecting to solo fast should have thought things out better. </p> <div> </div> <div>Granted that we were alot better before the revamp but adding DPS to templars is a big mistake....we need a couple more good buffs or kick our healing alittle ahead of the other healers since we solo so poorly.</div> <div> </div> <div>Why make a shaman or druid if you expect to be more than a weak back-up healer.....maybe because thats what they are.... jack of all trades and masters of none. (or they are suppost to be)</div><p>Message Edited by Kizee on <span class="date_text">11-21-2005</span> <span class="time_text">09:12 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>That was well put Kizee.  Part of the issue in here is people are expecting all classes to solo equally (or close to it) when that was never the case.  In my opinion you are absolutely correct and DPS is not the way to go.  Enhance our buffs and heals a little, make our stun work a little bit faster and have purpose, and increase the proc rates on our utility spells.  This is a huge point of contention right now as some people feel the Templars should be soloing.  While I can give a little credibility to that based on the fact SOE has tailored solo content to the game I think its been blown out of proportion at times.</span><div></div>

[Wossname]

<span><blockquote><hr>Radar-X wrote:<span> <font color="#ff0000">**snip**</font> That was well put Kizee.  Part of the issue in here is people are expecting all classes to solo equally (or close to it) when that was never the case.  In my opinion you are absolutely correct and DPS is not the way to go.  Enhance our buffs and heals a little, make our stun work a little bit faster and have purpose, and increase the proc rates on our utility spells.  This is a huge point of contention right now as some people feel the Templars should be soloing.  While I can give a little credibility to that based on the fact SOE has tailored solo content to the game I think its been blown out of proportion at times.</span><hr></blockquote> I'm with Caethre all the way on this one. Other priests complained that they couldn't heal in groups like Templars could, that healing needed to be equal. The dev's listened and duly healing became more balanced. Why is it now unreasonable for us Templars to look around us and ask "Others can heal like us now, why can't we solo like them?", answer me that. It never used to be the case all classes could solo equally. As payback there used to be benefits to tolerating poor soloing by being better in a group, this advantage has been nullified therefore so should the penalty. Enhancing our buffs and heals, speeding up stun and fixing proc rates are things we should get but they are completely different from the DPS/soloing question. If you don't want to solo then that's fine, just don't criticise those of us that want to enjoy the same freedom of play options that others get. </span><span>Why should we not want to solo? My desire to solo is less valid than a Fury player's desire to solo? </span><div></div>

[bigmak20]

Why, for the love of god, do some people keep asking for better healing???? IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. Sony has declared again and again and again we are all supposed to be equal healers. Stop dreaming.  Pinch yourself. Templars are not nor will ever again be the best healer. PEOPLE -NEVER- PICKED TEMPLAR TO SOLO -- THEY PICKED TEMPLAR TO BE THE DEDICATED HEALER (and if that meant they could also solo -- fine).  In retrospect everyone was a fool for believing the class descriptions and subclass quests.  Now... any priest can be the dedicated/best healer.  So what are we left?  Do we settle for [Removed for Content] DPS and utility or do we demand SOE gives us something in return for everything they took away?

[Melanctha]

<font color="#ffccff"><font size="2">I don't expect to solo like an SK can, or avoid DMG like a Monk. All I want is to be able to do my writs in under 2 hours. Other than that I am enjoying the cleric class, and my carbonite clad cans look better than Radar's. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </font></font><div></div>

[Kizee]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Melanctha wrote:<BR><FONT color=#ffccff><FONT size=2>I don't expect to solo like an SK can, or avoid DMG like a Monk. All I want is to be able to do my writs in under 2 hours. Other than that I am enjoying the cleric class, and my carbonite clad cans look better than Radar's. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></FONT></FONT> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Only takes 35-40 minutes to do a writ as a templar. :p believe me... I know... I did enough of them :smileyindifferent:

[Melanctha]

<font color="#ffccff"><font size="2">Bleh.. Maybe for you. Took me about 40 minutes for cadavers and a little over an hour for bears (+ treeant aggro). Then the running around in the first place to pick up the writs was about 2 hours. On my warden I was able to do two sets of writs by the time CoQ came back up. Big differance imo. </font></font><div></div>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caethre wrote:<BR> <P>OOC.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <DIV>Boggles me why people pick clerics to solo with.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>If you are a Templar, with this view, you need to take a step back and think this through. If you are not a Templar, you are merely being greedy if you expect to have equal healind AND an advantage elsewhere. I would only reply to your out-of-date statement</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>      "Why make a cleric to solo?"</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>with the equivalent one that goes with it :-</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>      "Why make a druid or shaman if you expect to be more than a weak back-up healer?"</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and see how you like that statement.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Alternatively, we can get up to date with the reality of EQ2 *now* .. and accept that all priests are now equal healers, so there is no *%^*$ reason why all priests should not be equally effective soloers. There is absolutely ZERO ZILCH NONE ZIP reasons why clerics should solo less well than, for example, druids. It is all out-of-date perception to think otherwise, and it needs to be updated.</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Felishanna [53 Templar] ... a healer and nothing else of value</DIV> <DIV>Annaelisa [42 Fury] ... equal to any Templar her level at healing, but far stronger in many other regards.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>So quick to go off the deep end :p</P> <P>I am a templar (level 60) and I still love my character but people that rolled a templar expecting to solo fast should have thought things out better. </P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Granted that we were alot better before the revamp but adding DPS to templars is a big mistake....we need a couple more good buffs or kick our healing alittle ahead of the other healers since we solo so poorly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why make a shaman or druid if you expect to be more than a weak back-up healer.....maybe because thats what they are.... jack of all trades and masters of none. (or they are suppost to be)</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Kizee on <SPAN class=date_text>11-21-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:12 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>What part of SoEs vision of equal healing do you not understand.</P> <P>You can ask for better healing and I will ask the Devs to put 1000 plat in my account, you know which will happen first? Neither. Get real.</P> <P>So anyways at a 4 way stop Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, The Tooth Fairy and a Soloing Templar post LU13 are sitting there. Which one gets to go first?</P> <P>None you [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], none of those exist.</P>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kizee wrote:<div>Boggles me why people pick clerics to solo with.</div><hr></blockquote>I didn't pick templar to solo, soloing picked me with DoF.</span><div></div>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Radar-X wrote:<span>That was well put Kizee.  Part of the issue in here is people are expecting all classes to solo equally (or close to it) when that was never the case.  In my opinion you are absolutely correct and DPS is not the way to go.  Enhance our buffs and heals a little, make our stun work a little bit faster and have purpose, and increase the proc rates on our utility spells.  This is a huge point of contention right now as some people feel the Templars should be soloing.  While I can give a little credibility to that based on the fact SOE has tailored solo content to the game I think its been blown out of proportion at times.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>How would statement 'people expected priest to heal the same (or close to it) when it was never the case' sound? It is just as valid as what you said.</span><div></div>

[SenorPhrog]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Radar-X wrote:<SPAN>That was well put Kizee.  Part of the issue in here is people are expecting all classes to solo equally (or close to it) when that was never the case.  In my opinion you are absolutely correct and DPS is not the way to go.  Enhance our buffs and heals a little, make our stun work a little bit faster and have purpose, and increase the proc rates on our utility spells.  <BR><BR>This is a huge point of contention right now as some people feel the Templars should be soloing.  While I can give a little credibility to that based on the fact SOE has tailored solo content to the game I think its been blown out of proportion at times.<BR></SPAN> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>How would statement 'people expected priest to heal the same (or close to it) when it was never the case' sound? It is just as valid as what you said.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <P>I'm not sure I understand your question completely Timaarit.   When I say it was "never the case" I'm saying that it was never stated or apparently the intended direction of game development.   Semi-Equivalence in healing is the direction they decided to go with priests and DPS isn't.  I don't design the game, I'm just stating what I've seen.</P> <P>I prefaced my statement as my opinion.  I don't see Templar as an offensive class and even pre LU#13 soloing was brutally painful. </P>

[Barodur_]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Taranwen wrote:<BR>/em agree with OP<BR><BR>been saying this forever (ok since the big combat change) and we dont avoid anything, no parry skills. wouldnt you think that is we were trained as "battle priests" (hence the heavy armor) we would have some knowledge of BATTLE?!...like not getting hit everytime an enemy throws a punch.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Nice to know I'm not the only one that feels this way. I said this too since combat change when we got nerfed and I was bombarded with comments like, "Maybe other Templars solo just fine - you just can't." And there's ALWAYS someone that says, "I've solo'd my Templar all the way to 55, 56, 57, etc." To that I say bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]! Chopping down a tree with a spoon is a [Removed for Content] understatement. I've seen slugs in the Peat Bog with more dps than we Templars have.</P> <P>Can we get a lil love back plsthx?</P>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Barodur_04 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> I've seen slugs in the Peat Bog with more dps than we Templars have.</BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>No exaggeration there, right?  :smileytongue:</P> <P><BR> </P>

[cadrach]

<DIV>The original post was great hehe.  There are definetly times where it seems like your chopping them with a spoon.  The only way to level, do writs, and or solo is to at least duo.  You can not solo as a Templar and hope to level in any time. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yeah it takes about 1 hour to 1 hour and 20 min for me to solo a writ. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit:  I know that it is possible to solo I am just saying to stay sane you can not hehe.</DIV><p>Message Edited by cadrach on <span class=date_text>11-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:57 AM</span>

[Barodur_]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Barodur_04 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> I've seen slugs in the Peat Bog with more dps than we Templars have.</BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>No exaggeration there, right?  :smileytongue:</P> <P><BR> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah you're right.....more like the fairies.<BR>

[BenEm]

<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caethre wrote:<BR> <P>OOC.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <DIV>Boggles me why people pick clerics to solo with.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>If you are a Templar, with this view, you need to take a step back and think this through. If you are not a Templar, you are merely being greedy if you expect to have equal healind AND an advantage elsewhere. I would only reply to your out-of-date statement</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>      "Why make a cleric to solo?"</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>with the equivalent one that goes with it :-</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>      "Why make a druid or shaman if you expect to be more than a weak back-up healer?"</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and see how you like that statement.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Alternatively, we can get up to date with the reality of EQ2 *now* .. and accept that all priests are now equal healers, so there is no *%^*$ reason why all priests should not be equally effective soloers. There is absolutely ZERO ZILCH NONE ZIP reasons why clerics should solo less well than, for example, druids. It is all out-of-date perception to think otherwise, and it needs to be updated.</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Felishanna [53 Templar] ... a healer and nothing else of value</DIV> <DIV>Annaelisa [42 Fury] ... equal to any Templar her level at healing, but far stronger in many other regards.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>So quick to go off the deep end :p</P> <P>I am a templar (level 60) and I still love my character but people that rolled a templar expecting to solo fast should have thought things out better. </P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Granted that we were alot better before the revamp but adding DPS to templars is a big mistake....we need a couple more good buffs or kick our healing alittle ahead of the other healers since we solo so poorly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why make a shaman or druid if you expect to be more than a weak back-up healer.....maybe because thats what they are.... jack of all trades and masters of none. (or they are suppost to be)</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Kizee on <SPAN class=date_text>11-21-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:12 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P> <P> </P> <P>Agreed Kizee I dont think anybody did  pick for solo as Templar based on what they advertised for the class. But ! and this is a big but !  The path of the Templar has been changed . They do not want us to  be a superior healer and they have stated exactly that . So now that we lost that edge we should get something in return . Had I known what was going to happen to Templars in LU 13 I would not have chosen #1 a Templar #2 the artisan class of Armorer . This will eventually cost them my 3 accounts I am only here now untill the big daddy and mother of all MMORPG's come out :smileywink: My original approch was going to be 1 account and try it , now I am going full bore all 3 on release and canceling the 3 EQ2 accounts . Way too big of a change after all that time was invested . I stand 1 year into a game wishing I was a Fury/Tailor  not a Temp /Armorer . If one was to look at my posts from around release I was considered a Fanboy and called such many a time now I have done an about face and am done with this garbage . 1st they Jag all my time invested in bringing up harvesting ...Strike 1  Than they pull a LU13 .... Strike 2 ....... Than they trivialize crafting and I watch people 15 levs below me blow by me so fast my head was spinning .... That was Strike 3   .  Aviodance vrs Mitigation  ...Strike 4 : )  /sarcasm on / Yes you too can have a Char you were told could stand in the thick of battle wearing heavy plate and smack away at a MoB and be the healer !!! woot woot ! ermmmm oops sorry I  forgot the best Armor for My Templar is not Heavy Armor and my melee is an absolute joke not worth even spending the time to go into attack mode. </P> <P>This game had great possibilities and It was a fun ride ! In all fairness once I realized their competitor was comming out with a game much like this but higher degree of difficulty  landing it somewhere between EQ1 and EQ2 but with land ownership in the wilds it was probably over anyhow :smileywink:</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by BenEmma on <span class=date_text>11-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:19 PM</span>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Radar-X wrote: <p>I'm not sure I understand your question completely Timaarit.   When I say it was "never the case" I'm saying that it was never stated or apparently the intended direction of game development.   Semi-Equivalence in healing is the direction they decided to go with priests and DPS isn't.  I don't design the game, I'm just stating what I've seen.</p> <p>I prefaced my statement as my opinion.  I don't see Templar as an offensive class and even pre LU#13 soloing was brutally painful. </p><hr></blockquote>So in fact templar has no role in this game. Since templars are not an offensive class and we definately are not any better defensive class than any other healer. We do have our moments, but then so do every other healing class. So best thing devs could do now, is to let us do a /respec class and then /delete templars. Since they are clearly not going to get us out of the mud.</span><div></div>

[kenji]

<P>heh Tim, u respec your class but plate armor wont fit your new class <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>but yes, i rather naked 60 than lvl up a new druid.... but then, SoE just want us to re-role so they can earn more money</P>

[Timaarit]

<div></div><span><blockquote>kenjiso wrote:<p>heh Tim, u respec your class but plate armor wont fit your new class <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> <p>but yes, i rather naked 60 than lvl up a new druid.... but then, SoE just want us to re-role so they can earn more money</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>Doesn't matter, I spent about 30 plat after DoF to get my class enjoyable and failed. I am willing to spend another if it gives me a fun or useful healer class to play. As it is, I am playing my monk and waiting for better times. Not holding my breath though.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Timaarit on <span class=date_text>11-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:04 AM</span>

[kenji]

well...luckily i still healing my friend group...but fun ... not. got a 43 warlock and 18 summoner...same bad feeling too... maybe i dont like alts much

[Cowdenic]

<P>The Hilarious thing here is I would be willing to give up my 57 Templar for a 57 Fury. I would be happy to have said 57 Fury naked and with all app 1 spells. Take my fabled gear, my master spells and adept 3's, Take it all. Just let me have a /reclass because Templars are broke so bad at end game. </P> <P>It isnt like it is that hard to find Druid Fabled gear in Tier 6. I mean 1/3 of the fabled loot i have seen so far is Druid only.</P>

[SenorPhrog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Radar-X wrote: <P>I'm not sure I understand your question completely Timaarit.   When I say it was "never the case" I'm saying that it was never stated or apparently the intended direction of game development.   Semi-Equivalence in healing is the direction they decided to go with priests and DPS isn't.  I don't design the game, I'm just stating what I've seen.</P> <P>I prefaced my statement as my opinion.  I don't see Templar as an offensive class and even pre LU#13 soloing was brutally painful.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>So in fact templar has no role in this game. Since templars are not an offensive class and we definately are not any better defensive class than any other healer. We do have our moments, but then so do every other healing class.<BR><BR>So best thing devs could do now, is to let us do a /respec class and then /delete templars. Since they are clearly not going to get us out of the mud.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>A lot of bitterness in you my friend.  I hope your Fury has you having at least a little fun because if not I can recommend some other games you might like.   Your statement that Templar "has no role in this game" is pretty much unfounded and almost ridiculous.   You could debate with the other number crunchers about specifics and I won't even bother with that because parsing makes me want to hurt myself and others. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes them posting here and making changes is so "clearly not going to get us out of the mud."   So why keep coming back to the forums to remind everyone that is still trying to play how bad they suck?  Are you so angry about how your class has been changed that you want to make everyone else as miserable?   I'm not saying its roses and fireworks here because I'm not stupid.  I realize there are issues but how about giving them a chance to do some work on it instead of just giving up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your posts are good Timaarit and you argue your points well but this one.....its just sarcastic negativity which I'm ok with but its not going to get anything fixed around here.</DIV>

[Timaarit]

No, I don't have a fury. I have a monk who is now doing all the (solo) quests in DoF. As it is, all the clerics in my guild (we have a lot and only one actually has a healer alt) who made/have an alt, are having fun. And the ones who didn't, well, actually there are none of those. And as for our role, all I can think of is a backup healer for a group or one of the assistant healers in raids. There is no point in picking more that one cleric per raid unless there is a shortage of other healers. We might even be main healers when grouping if the fury feels like nuking. True we can be the only healers in a group just like any other priests. Thus I dont consider that as anyones role as it can be done by anyone. <div></div>

[VikodiN]

<P><FONT color=#ccffff>I've readjusted my playing style ... soloing is very slow compared to grouping these days, whether you're out for experience or trying to kill some epic greys for quest updates.  I've adjusted to what SoE claims, is the way they originally meant Templars to be.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ccffff>I'm not being bitter in the above statement, just pointing out if you do not accept your role as it currently is in-game, you will not enjoy playing a Templar.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ccffff>As time has passed, I am beginning to enjoy using my Templar once again.  I'm not saying I wouldn't mind a boost here or there (*cough* DPS *cough*) but I have adjusted.</FONT></P>

[Teil]

<DIV>I do love my Templar lvl 49 when it comes to grouping but thats it and even that is hard sometimes.  I've gone upto a group before sitting around and asked as you guys looking for a healer and recieved the response "thanks but we are looking for a fury" To me this was almost a stab to the heart. So sent me on the Solo path with my LFG tag up.  After a hour I was so frustrated and it could have been do to nuke to pull, debuff, debuff, HO starter, interupt, interupt, Nuke, fizzle. interupt, dang need to heal, interupt, interupt, heal, dang ho timer gone, fizzle, fizzle, argh time to heal again, interupt, heal, HO.......etc. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Soloing is pretty much worthless and I would love to see an idea that has been mentioned of a selfbuff damage shield so that way at least the mobs will take a little damage while templars are trying to get a spell off.  I dont think we will see an increase to our healing though it would be nice.  Even a nice root like we did have in EQ1 would be a nice add to our utility.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other than that if a group isnt avail then its either crafting time or go play my alt bard cause i cant take the abuse to my brain of trying to solo my templar any more.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Teilan on <span class=date_text>12-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:02 PM</span>

[RedFeather]

<P>Melanctha, I've shelved my cleric character so many times because of the painful pace we solo.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff99>I've suggested in other topics that clerics be given a <STRONG>'self-cast only concentration spell'</STRONG> that lowers our healing prowess and boosts our DPS potential. It would speed up soloing (Which I can't stress enough, is way to slow!) without making battles any easier. It does not interfere with balancing in any way. It's a sacrifice for some speed. Some speed that is very much needed.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>eg. 'Discipline Shift' - 2 Concentration; 5 second Cast; Self-Cast Only; 10 minute Recast; Duration(until canceled)<BR>       Increases spell damage by X% and lowers amount of health received from healing spells by X%.</FONT></P> <P>I don't see how this can be a problem. I can't imagine anyone complaining about letting clerics solo at a faster speed than we currently do. Everyone knows we lie at the bottom of the DPS chart.<BR><BR>Please, anyone who agrees with this suggestion, post your approval.</P><p>Message Edited by RedFeather1975 on <span class=date_text>12-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:56 PM</span>

[bigmak20]

The conc buff to solo DPS is an OK idea but I'll keep reminding folks we shouldn't settle for 'solo only' DPS when other priests that heal as good as we do have no such limitation. Don't settle for anything less then balance.

[Curati]

<P>my solution is that I do not solo. Thats right. If i get attacked, I run or die. I can solo I know how...I hate it and dont do it on purpose. I group only. Simply doing this has made me a happy templar. When I cannot find a group i jump on my monk and beat stuff up and try my templar after an hour. USUALLY though I go int a zone and say lvl 32 templar lfg...1...2....3.."Soandso has invited you to a group"... Mostly when I solo though I go play a fps..it gets any soloing tendancy I have out of the way.</P> <P> </P> <P><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Curative wrote:<p>my solution is that I do not solo. Thats right. If i get attacked, I run or die. I can solo I know how...I hate it and dont do it on purpose. I group only. Simply doing this has made me a happy templar. When I cannot find a group i jump on my monk and beat stuff up and try my templar after an hour. USUALLY though I go int a zone and say lvl 32 templar lfg...1...2....3.."Soandso has invited you to a group"... Mostly when I solo though I go play a fps..it gets any soloing tendancy I have out of the way.</p> <p><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>I tried putting LFG on my 56 monk last night just to see if anyone wanted to group with me. Took me about 20 mins and I got an invite. By a LFG templar. Anyway I did have fun there while killing some harpies in PoF. Well actually it was fun when we got a conjurer to join and got add. Trying to prevent the add aggroing the conjurer made it fun nad interesting. Don't know how fun that templar had, at least he didn't complain. Exept for the fact that I didn't use my offensive stance on the first pull...</span><div></div>

[Andu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Curative wrote:<BR> <P>my solution is that I do not solo. Thats right. If i get attacked, I run or die. I can solo I know how...I hate it and dont do it on purpose. I group only. Simply doing this has made me a happy templar. When I cannot find a group i jump on my monk and beat stuff up and try my templar after an hour. USUALLY though I go int a zone and say lvl 32 templar lfg...1...2....3.."Soandso has invited you to a group"... Mostly when I solo though I go play a fps..it gets any soloing tendancy I have out of the way.</P> <P><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This is fine until you reach the DoF stuff. Then solo becomes mandatory, you have to solo to advance in all the main quest lines there.</P> <P>I think that is a big reason for Templars being so grumpy about DPS and soloing. If we could get everything done in a group then ok but that is not an option now. Unless you are lucky enough to play with RL friends or have friends who dont mind grouping with you so you can leach off their DPS (because your healing sure isn't needed generally). </P> <P>Personally, I feel guilty asking friends to help me do solo quests when they get nothing out of it.</P>

[OlaeviaTraisharan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Anduri wrote:<BR> <P>This is fine until you reach the DoF stuff. Then solo becomes mandatory, you have to solo to advance in all the main quest lines there.</P> <P>I think that is a big reason for Templars being so grumpy about DPS and soloing. If we could get everything done in a group then ok but that is not an option now. Unless you are lucky enough to play with RL friends or have friends who dont mind grouping with you so you can leach off their DPS (because your healing sure isn't needed generally). </P> <P>Personally, I feel guilty asking friends to help me do solo quests when they get nothing out of it.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>/agree</P> <P>I just started doing the DoF quest lines and I can't do most of it alone. I just don't put out enough damage to do it without blowing an entire bar of mana on a monster even-con to me.</P> <P>I had to have my necromancer husband come help me out.<BR></P>

[Andu]

<div></div>I've just been chipping away at the desert lunatics in PoF. They are healers and as such our DPS cannot overcome their ability to heal. As a result, the fights genuinly take 5 mins to complete (I used a clock to be sure). You have to wear down their power to zero, then you have to kill them quickly before they regen enough to drop another reactive on themselves. It is incredibly boring and you have to kill 20 of them. All the while you have to avoid a lot of wandering adds and stuff, if you get an add you pretty much have to run and restart which is totally frustrating. All in all, it's simply not fun and yet I have no choice if I want to complete the quest line. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Anduri on <span class=date_text>12-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:29 AM</span>