Too Many Suggestion posts

[BenEm]

<DIV>We need to put all our suggestions in one post not 3 . For some reason we have had 2 additional Suggestion posts besides Caethre's on the same page :smileysurprised:   I nominate Caethre's post as the official suggestion post if you agree please post as such and lets get them all in one thread . Caethre has a great feel for all Templars  and has demonstraited 0 bias toward raiding ...to casual .....small grouping..... to Solo  Templars  she by far and away has the best feel for what the majority of Templars feel and want .  Caethre For Temp Queen and spokes woman !!! Let get our act together ! We spend our time arguing with the Minority .......Band together and ignore the minority dont even reply to their posts you will just be baited into getting your post deleted  ! Lets do it fellow Temps !</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>LETS GET HER POST STICKIED ENOUGH MESSING AROUND :smileyvery-happy:</DIV><p>Message Edited by BenEmma on <span class=date_text>11-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:58 AM</span>

[Gcha]

So, to recap, you're suggesting we have less suggestion posts?

[SenorPhrog]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gchang wrote:<BR>So, to recap, you're suggesting we have less suggestion posts? <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[BenEm]

Yes one post stickied so we dont have our suggestions in 3 to 5 different places make sense ?

[KingOfF00LS]

<span><blockquote><hr>BenEmma wrote:Yes one post stickied so we dont have our suggestions in 3 to 5 different places make sense ? <div></div><hr></blockquote>I think that suggestion was already suggested, however you have conveyed the problem with your suggestive words. </span><div></div>

[AzraelAzgard]

<DIV>Caethre does not have a great feel for all Templars, she doesnt raid, she doesnt understand our issues at lvl 60 raiding T6.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Shes lvl 53, sorry but someone who doesnt even know about 70% of our T6 spells cant be a class representive no matter how much they type OOC.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Barely begun the transition into the way we end up in T6....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And well if we were to get class representitives we would need 2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A casual Templar who tends to single group on quests more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A raiding Templar who raids T6 and is in a top guild worldwide.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This way all aspects of the class would be covered from different perspectives. Reznor would be a good option as the Raiding Templar representive should we ever be offered the oppotunity.</DIV>

[BenEm]

<P>Sounds reasonable .. I do think Caethre could handle all but possibly Raid and I agree on Reznor he seems very level headed and seems like he has the knowledge . Not that my opinion matters much . I really just want to see Templars move foward together in the same direction . There is no denying that we are not working together or in the right direction for probably a month or more now . Its a shame that this seems to be a longshot due to a few  ego's on this board  that would have to be put aside and for some that  suggested  they let their own group members even guildies  die on purpose to supposedly teach someone a lesson in a freaking game we can see it will be a huge task .  Lets face it some feel there so high and mighty they actually feel the need to teach lessons reguardless of personal feelings like their bringing up a child or something . Good greif some just need to get a gripe on themselves and possibly get some psycological help  :smileywink:</P> <P>Unfortunately the cards are stacked against this community :smileysad:</P>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AzraelAzgard wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A raiding Templar who raids T6 and is in a top guild worldwide. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Though I'm against class representatives or correspondants, I'd put my weight behind Skyrocket from Fires of Heaven, Ethec from Ten Ton Hammer, or even Tamat from Drow.  Not only are these incredibly knowledgable raiding Templars, they are also all used to working with the developers already through their websites or by way of Summits/FanFaires.</P> <P>From a casual perspective, I'd want someone who belongs to a solid guild already.  Color me biased, but I've always been suspicious of those players who are higher level or well known and yet who do not belong to a guild which is at least stable or large enough to support a full group or two consistently.  The ability to work within such a network is a first step toward communicating with a larger community.  </P> <P>I know there's some excellent Templars in this forum who come from  smaller, less active guilds...or who might even be "flying solo" for now.  However, if someone's going to "speak" for all of us (again, something I'm against), I would prefer it to be someone used to speaking for someone already.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P> <p>Message Edited by Kendricke on <span class=date_text>11-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:03 AM</span>

[Mayl]

<span>Replies are in <font color="#ff0000">red</font><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> AzraelAzgard wrote: <div> </div> <div>A raiding Templar who raids T6 and is in a top guild worldwide. <hr> </div></blockquote> <p><b>Though I'm against class representatives or correspondants</b>, I'd put my weight behind Skyrocket from Fires of Heaven, Ethec from Ten Ton Hammer, or even Tamat from Drow.  Not only are these incredibly knowledgable raiding Templars, they are also all used to working with the developers already through their websites or by way of Summits/FanFaires. </p> <p><font color="#ff0000">I would listen to what Skyrocket has to say. I don't know them personally. But, Fires of Heaven have a good rep. </font></p> <p><font color="#ff0000">As a side note, Caethre, Kendricke and Radar-X all have valueable input. Its when they condradict themselves I have a problem with thier credability. Case in point. The bold text at the top. Now, if you look <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=13&message.id=15176" target=_blank>here</a>, you will see a different statement. Down at the bottom of your OP in that thread. </font></p> <p><font color="#ff0000">Will cut it and paste it here for refference. </font></p> <p><font size="1"><strong>Reasoning:</strong>Our class has issues an will always have issues.  More to the point, <u>I've been accused by so many recently of attempting to be a class spokesperson that I've finally decided to put on the mantle</u>.  If I'm going to earn the title, I may as well put in the work. </font></p> <p><span><font color="#ff0000">That makes no sense. Either you are for it, or against it. Now, before anyone gets in an uproar, I am pointing this out for a reason. If you would make a stand and stick to it, and not swing back and forth, you would be taken more seriously. Not to mention earning respect. I respect those who do stick to thier stand on an issue. Its not an attack, just a way to improve. </font></span></p> <p>From a casual perspective, I'd want someone who belongs to a solid guild already.  Color me biased, but <b>I've always been</b> <b>suspicious of those players who are higher level or well known</b> <b>and yet who do not belong to a guild</b> <b>which is at least stable or large enough to support a full group or two consistently</b>.  The ability to work within such a network is a first step toward communicating with a larger community. </p> <p><font color="#ff0000">I have to disagree. Casual players are just that. Casual. Does it mean they know thier class any less than the rest of the templars who are from guilds that can hold two groups on a consistent basis? I doubt it. Also, I think your final statement after the bold holds no logic if your refering to players in thier current status in EQ2. Do not dismiss thier possable past MMO experience. It would be wrong to do so.</font> </p> <p>I know there's some excellent Templars in this forum who come from  smaller, less active guilds...or who might even be "flying solo" for now.  However, if someone's going to "speak" for all of us <b>(again, something I'm against)</b>, <font color="#ff0000">(read my first reply)</font> I would prefer it to be someone used to speaking for someone already. <font color="#ff0000">We can all prefer, wish, want and even dream.  But, the reality is whoever is choosen (IF it even happens) will be well versed in Templars. Not who has the most post counts on the subject, not who has the most /feedbacks sent. The most knowledgeable Templar(s) (i think two would be the prefered route. One for raiding/high end content. One for the casual/small/non-guilded Templar.) should be the one(s) choosen. And this is still an even IF.</font> </p> <div></div><p>Message Edited by Kendricke on <span class="date_text">11-18-2005</span> <span class="time_text">08:03 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><font color="#ff0000">I know I am a Templar coming out of left field. I am not knowen on the boards, ect. But, I have been reading the boards daily. You all need to remember, there should be no "fanboy, we are fine, camp" (I can't agree with this title 100%, I think everyone knows we have issues. Even non-Templars see it.) and the "We are broke, fix us" camp (there is the third "we should be uber healers camp", so there is three). There should only be the "We are Templars" camp. Us, as a community, banded together. Once we know where everyone stands for 100% certainty, then we can move forward (not swaying back and forth). If Caethre and Radar-X would band together (because they will both hold thier ground), we would see progression. I know there is some other posters I am leaveing out. But, they are trying to progress, though in different directions. The major problem is the DPS/Healing Debate. My stand, I did not pick a Templar to be a tank or a utuility char. I picked a Templar for healing. We are the pure healers and I know there is Templars that feel we should not be that way. But, we are. I knew that going into EQ2 and I choose it. My solution? Fix the reactives (I thought they were fixed and I was wrong. I have seen on a few occasions where a group member was attacked and the reactive failed to go off. I am hopeing this is a bug.), shave a little time off of our recast times on our direct heals and fix mit. I think if these three things were done, 90% of the community would be happy.</font></span><div></div>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <HR> Maylar wrote:<BR><SPAN>Replies are in <FONT color=#ff0000>red</FONT><BR> <P><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=1><STRONG>Reasoning:<BR></STRONG>Our class has issues an will always have issues.  More to the point, <U>I've been accused by so many recently of attempting to be a class spokesperson that I've finally decided to put on the mantle</U>.  If I'm going to earn the title, I may as well put in the work.<BR></FONT></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ff0000>That makes no sense. Either you are for it, or against it. Now, before anyone gets in an uproar, I am pointing this out for a reason. If you would make a stand and stick to it, and not swing back and forth, you would be taken more seriously. Not to mention earning respect. I respect those who do stick to thier stand on an issue. Its not an attack, just a way to improve.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>My wording is at fault.  Basically, the catalyst for reviving the "Holy Books" threads started by Xrande was that I'd just read several posts in a row where I was accused of trying to be the "Templar representative".  I spent several more posts trying to point out that I'm against the concept; that I'm not trying to be any such representative; that I represent only myself and my guild.  However, after so many posts on the subject, I finally chose to step up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If one is going to be accused of a thing over and over, regardless of the facts, then one is eventually going to step up to fill a bit of the accusation.  That was my honest point.  I could have worded it differently, and certainly I've thought of going back and doing just that.  However, the fact remains that I would not have bothered with the post had I not been hammered on consistently throughout several threads on different forums where I was effectively made into some manner of de facto representative.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I still do not claim to speak for the Templar Community in any official capacity.  Only in the barest sense of the word do I represent Templars - just as every other Templar on the forums represents us.  The real difference, in my eyes at least, is that I'm at least attempting to do something constructive about it - whereas many other Templars seem more interested in complaining and attacking each other than sticking to the issues.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, again, for the record, I don't represent anyone save myself and my guild.  I am a Templar - and a vocal one at that - and only in that way could I even be considered to be representative of Templars...or at least as one individual Templars.  I do not speak for the Templar community, nor do I wish to.  I have no desire to be in such a role, and even if I were offered such a position, I would defer to any number of other, more capable individuals.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Mayl]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <blockquote dir="ltr"> <hr> Maylar wrote:<span>Replies are in <font color="#ff0000">red</font> <p><font color="#ff0000"></font></p> <p><font size="1"><strong>Reasoning:</strong>Our class has issues an will always have issues.  More to the point, <u>I've been accused by so many recently of attempting to be a class spokesperson that I've finally decided to put on the mantle</u>.  If I'm going to earn the title, I may as well put in the work.</font></p> <p><span><font color="#ff0000">That makes no sense. Either you are for it, or against it. Now, before anyone gets in an uproar, I am pointing this out for a reason. If you would make a stand and stick to it, and not swing back and forth, you would be taken more seriously. Not to mention earning respect. I respect those who do stick to thier stand on an issue. Its not an attack, just a way to improve.</font></span></p></span><p></p> <hr> </blockquote></blockquote> <div>My wording is at fault.  Basically, the catalyst for reviving the "Holy Books" threads started by Xrande was that I'd just read several posts in a row where I was accused of trying to be the "Templar representative".  I spent several more posts trying to point out that I'm against the concept; that I'm not trying to be any such representative; that I represent only myself and my guild.  However, after so many posts on the subject, I finally chose to step up.</div> <div> </div> <div>If one is going to be accused of a thing over and over, regardless of the facts, then one is eventually going to step up to fill a bit of the accusation.  That was my honest point.  I could have worded it differently, and certainly I've thought of going back and doing just that.  However, the fact remains that I would not have bothered with the post had I not been hammered on consistently throughout several threads on different forums where I was effectively made into some manner of de facto representative.</div> <div> </div> <div>I still do not claim to speak for the Templar Community in any official capacity.  Only in the barest sense of the word do I represent Templars - just as every other Templar on the forums represents us.  The real difference, in my eyes at least, is that I'm at least attempting to do something constructive about it - whereas many other Templars seem more interested in complaining and attacking each other than sticking to the issues.</div> <div> </div> <div>So, again, for the record, I don't represent anyone save myself and my guild.  I am a Templar - and a vocal one at that - and only in that way could I even be considered to be representative of Templars...or at least as one individual Templars.  I do not speak for the Templar community, nor do I wish to.  I have no desire to be in such a role, and even if I were offered such a position, I would defer to any number of other, more capable individuals.</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>Thank you Kendricke for clearing that up. You very vocal Templars that do make a stand on your ideas do have my respect. I may not agree with everything each of you say. But, I do agree with most of what each of you say. Now if we could tie them all together, it would be smooth sailing on the templar's forum (as far as getting ideas together in a constructive manner).  I know, I know. That is easier said than done. But, it is a goal none the less.  If we could have a thread where we compare what each feels is wrong and suggest trade-offs (we cant just take. we have to be willing to give up something to recieve something else, if it came to that.) in a civil manner, it would most certainly be progress. We need to start setting goals for us Templars on the forums, then reaching those goals. We can do it one at a time, which would probably be the easiest route. First, lay all of our cards on the table. What do YOU feel is wrong with the class? Why? How do you think it could be fixed? (i know, so far i have described 2 or 3 threads. but the last missing part is...) What are you willing to give up for it to get the fix? (Again, if it came to that.) Just a thought. I know there is those who would disagree with me. That is your right. All I am trying to do is give us a direction. Right now, we have none other than fighting with each other. We can take that energy and use it to move forward. That is why we are all here, right? To get Templars fixed? Well, it is why I am finally posting. I would like to have my Templar fixed. </span><div></div>

[Kayle]

<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR> <BR> <DIV>I do not speak for the Templar community, nor do I wish to.  I have no desire to be in such a role, and even if I were offered such a position, I would defer to any number of other, more capable individuals.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Good, then stop trying to.  Just post your view, ONCE, along with everyone else and be done with it.  If something else comes to mind in a week or two, feel free to add to it.</P> <P>This is getting completely redundant and immature.  Not to mention silly by trying to nominate people who don't or hardly even post here to speak for an entire Templar community, who also, mostly doesn't post here.</P> <P>Maybe if you just followed a simple rule of post your view, don't attack other views and move along, you wouldn't see half of the problems here that you do.  It's really that simple, Kendricke.  You talk too much and it drowns out everyone else to the point that if I were a dev, I wouldn't read it either.  I think there's your definition of "noise" -- repetitive, argumentative, circle-talk.  It only invites more responses, like this one.  You come across as attacking a view and then you report the retaliation that follows, building bad blood around here.  Could you possibly not talk so much about the same thing over and over and over and question every comment that is written here?</P> <P>Live and let live.  You don't NEED to scrutinize every comment and that's why you get into the arguments you do.</P> <P>There's no Templar spokesperson unless I see Moorgard post something to that effect.</P><p>Message Edited by Kaylena on <span class=date_text>11-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:59 PM</span>

[rtoub]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BenEmma wrote:<BR> <DIV>We need to put all our suggestions in one post not 3 . For some reason we have had 2 additional Suggestion posts besides Caethre's on the same page :smileysurprised:   I nominate Caethre's post as the official suggestion post if you agree please post as such and lets get them all in one thread . Caethre has a great feel for all Templars  and has demonstraited 0 bias toward raiding ...to casual .....small grouping..... to Solo  Templars  she by far and away has the best feel for what the majority of Templars feel and want .  Caethre For Temp Queen and spokes woman !!! Let get our act together ! We spend our time arguing with the Minority .......Band together and ignore the minority dont even reply to their posts you will just be baited into getting your post deleted  ! Lets do it fellow Temps !</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>LETS GET HER POST STICKIED ENOUGH MESSING AROUND :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <P>Message Edited by BenEmma on <SPAN class=date_text>11-16-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:58 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I don't care who does it but personally I like the "Holy Books" format better.  It is very organized and easy to read and summarize.  Also now both threads have too much argument and flaming about stuff not related to Templar issues.  We need to post and keep the thread on topic.  There are some excellent discussion in both but when I get to the personal attacks and pointless bickering I tend to skip over stuff and the Dev's have better things to do that read that stuff.