Holy Books of Templar: "Compiled List of Bugs and Suggestions" (updated July 9)

[Kendricke]

<DIV align=center><FONT face=Century color=#ffffff size=5><IMG src="http://www.legion-whiterose.com/holybooks.jpg"></FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV align=center><FONT size=1>Compiled issues/bugs/feedback about Templar class</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR><BR></DIV> <P align=left><BR> </P> <DIV align=left><FONT color=#ff0000 size=5><STRONG>I. The Wrath of Templars</STRONG></FONT><BR> <DIV align=left><STRONG><FONT size=4><FONT color=#ffff00 size=5>Bugs: Templar</FONT><BR></FONT><FONT size=2>(BUGS - Issues and obvious problems with current Templar class abilities or spells which prevent them from working as apparantly intended).</FONT></STRONG></DIV><STRONG><FONT size=2></FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV align=left> </DIV><STRONG><FONT size=2></FONT></STRONG> <OL> <LI> <DIV align=left><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>Mitigation does not appear to be working correctly.<BR></STRONG></FONT>Due to this, many Templars complain that they are interrupted far more than leather or even chain wearing priestly counterparts, leading to a further degradation of our already low damage output.  If mitigation is working correctly, please clarify this misperception.  If it is not working correctly, please fix.<BR><BR><BR></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>Divine Arbitration does not seem to be working as stated<BR></FONT></STRONG>Reports have surfaced that at times, Divine Arbitration distributes life contrary to stated expectations.<BR><BR></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>Harmony generates hate<BR></FONT></STRONG>Reports are being heard that Harmony seems to be generating hate in some cases.<BR><BR></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>Involuntary line is not curing trauma correctly</STRONG></FONT><BR>Reports are in that the Involuntary line of spells is not curing the proper amount of trauma when triggered.<BR><BR></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>Cure Arcane breaks Charm </STRONG></FONT><BR>Per <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=13&message.id=22000" target=_blank>this discussion</A>, it seems that Cure Arcane is also "curing" coercer charm.<BR><BR></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>Templar Grand Restoration healing for less than minimum noted</FONT></STRONG>    <FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>UPDATE!!!!<BR></STRONG></FONT><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=13&message.id=23776" target=_blank>At least two reports now in</A> (one of which in screenshot form) that Grand Restoration Master II is healing for well below minimum value from time to time.  Was the minimum value on the heal lowered by 1000 by accident?<BR><BR></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>Buffs Not Stacking Correctly</FONT> </STRONG>  <STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>UPDATE!!!!</FONT></STRONG><BR>Per <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=13&message.id=25234&jump=true#M25234" target=_blank>this thread</A>, higher quality mitigation group buffs are being overwritten by lower quality versions of the same spell.<BR><BR></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><STRIKE><STRONG><FONT color=#cccccc>Soothe Triggers Hostile PROCs</FONT> </STRONG><BR>Soothe seems to count as a hostile spell which is causing it to trigger damage based procs which immediately break the Soothe.<BR></STRIKE><FONT color=#ff6600><STRONG>Fixed as of March 23 Patch</STRONG></FONT></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><STRONG><STRIKE><FONT color=#ffff00><FONT color=#cccccc>Sanctuary fears pets</FONT><BR></FONT></STRIKE></STRONG><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=20" target=_blank><STRIKE>Reports are in</STRIKE></A><STRIKE> regarding Sanctuary causing summoner pets to flee and refuse commands.</STRIKE> <BR><FONT color=#ff6600><STRONG>Fixed as of Live Update 20</STRONG></FONT></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><STRIKE><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00><FONT color=#cccccc>Weakness</FONT><BR></FONT></STRONG>Even though the effect is no longer the same, the recast timer remains linked between Weakness and "Sign" line. <BR></STRIKE><FONT color=#ff3300><FONT color=#ff9900><STRONG>Weakness removed from game in Live Update 19</STRONG></FONT></FONT></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><FONT color=#cccccc><STRIKE><STRONG>There does not appear to be a point for upgrading skill level on Sign of Weakness line<BR></STRONG>Sign of Weakness duration seems to be based entirely on character level.  For example, there appears to be no variation between an Adept I and and Adept III version of the spells.<BR></STRIKE></FONT><STRONG><FONT color=#ff9900>Visible Fix in Live Update 18</FONT></STRONG></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><SPAN><STRIKE><FONT color=#cccccc><STRONG>Atoning Fate does not always work</STRONG><BR>Does not proc the group heal upon mobs death if the mob is killed by a proc of any kind, on a weapon from the weapon or a buff etc.<BR></FONT></STRIKE><STRONG><FONT color=#ff9900>Fixed in Live Update 17</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><SPAN></SPAN><STRONG><STRIKE><FONT color=#cccccc>Sanctuary is not upgrading properly<BR></FONT></STRIKE></STRONG><SPAN><STRIKE><FONT color=#cccccc>Adept I and Adept III are identical spells.  Suggestion would be to make the Adept III better by giving it a longer duration or quicker recast time.</FONT></STRIKE><BR><FONT color=#ff9900><STRONG>Per Developers, this is working as intended.</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN><STRIKE><FONT color=#cccccc><STRONG>Unyielding Benediction does not upgrade properly to Vigilant Benediction</STRONG><BR>Lower tier spell Identical to upper tier version.</FONT></STRIKE><BR><FONT color=#ff9900><STRONG>Fixed in Live Update 18</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><SPAN></SPAN><STRIKE><FONT color=#cccccc><STRONG>Combat resurrections require additional attention</STRONG><BR>A Templar can cast a combat resurrection on a target, but has to stay in range (1 meter) till the target actually clicks yes.  During a group or raiding situation, this can be incredibly frustrating when the Templar's also trying to assist with healing.</FONT><BR></STRIKE><STRONG><FONT color=#ff9900>Fixed in Live Update 17</FONT></STRONG></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><STRIKE><FONT color=#cccccc><STRONG>Stuns don't upgrade</STRONG><BR>No apparant increase in power or effect when upgrading Prostrate or Forced Submission from Apprentice to Adept versions.</FONT><BR></STRIKE><FONT color=#ff9900>Visible Fix in Live Update 18</FONT></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><STRIKE><FONT color=#cccccc><STRONG>Mark Line has Inconsistent Hate Generation</STRONG><BR>Reports exists indicating that Mark of Pawns does not draw hate, but Mark of Princes does.</FONT></STRIKE> <BR><STRONG><FONT color=#ff9900>Explained by</FONT> <FONT color=#ff0000><FONT color=#ff3300>Silverfrost</FONT> </FONT><FONT color=#ff9900>that neither spell draws hate specifically, but that the debuff itself or the associated heals will draw hate indirectly.</FONT></STRONG></DIV></LI></OL><BR> <DIV><FONT size=2><BR></FONT><FONT size=2><BR> </FONT></DIV> <DIV align=left><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ff0000 size=5><STRONG>II. The Journey of Templars<BR></STRONG></FONT></FONT><FONT size=2><STRONG><FONT size=4><FONT size=5><FONT color=#99ff00>Class Issues: Templar</FONT><BR></FONT><STRONG><FONT size=2>(ISSUES - Items that Templar community thinks SOE should looked.  These are not bugs, but rather issues more related to game balance.&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></STRONG></FONT></STRONG></FONT><BR></DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> <DIV> </DIV> <OL> <LI><FONT color=#ccff00><STRONG>Templar (and really all other priests') DPS is significantly lower than that of Furies.  <FONT color=#ff0000>UPDATE!!</FONT></STRONG></FONT><FONT size=3><FONT size=4><FONT color=#ccff00><BR></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ccff00><FONT size=4></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT>Though Furies are now much more powerful than previously in handling healing in most situations, Templars are not more powerful relatively speaking in regards to damage output.  Though normally this would not be as great an issue due to our typically greater defense, the fact remains that due to changes to experience debt and now even shard collections, death is no longer as great a detriment as it once was...leaving Furies able to gain significantly more experience than Templars in soloing situations.  In addition, this leads to a perception that Furies are more desirable in grouping situations.<BR><STRONG><FONT color=#ff9900>Beam of Faith now have shorter casting times per Live Update 18<BR>Beam of Faith line now has a shorter recast time per Live Update 21 (16.65% increase)<BR>Smite line damage increased (16.7% increase)<BR>Strike line damage increased (24.9% increase)<BR>Combative Faith line damage increased (20.03% increase)<BR></FONT></STRONG><BR></LI> <LI><FONT color=#ccff00><STRONG>Soothe line needs work  <FONT color=#ff0000><BR></FONT></STRONG></FONT>Many Templars feel Soothe is not very useful in its current form.  At the very least, it needs a decrease in casting time, an increase in range, or both.  Oftentimes it's used to pacify a wandering add.  By the time the target is in range of Soothe, it's often too late to cast the spell before the target is engaged in battle.  Additionally, effectiveness could be increased by allowing it to be used in an AE or Group form, soothing multiple targets at once. <BR><BR></LI> <LI><STRONG><FONT color=#ccff00>Combat is too quick and DPS intensive post-revamp</FONT></STRONG><BR>The perception seems to be that prior to the revamp, "pure" healers (as most Templars felt we our role was) held a more solid role in Norrath.  This seems to be based on the fact that post-revamp, combat goes so quickly that healing is almost trivial in most group situations.  This is related to the issue that Templars have far too little DPS in comparison to some priests (notably Furies), and thus our significant healing abilities are largely wasted in most typical situations, whereas our DPS contributions feel insignificant compared to other priest classes who can both heal and supply damage.  Perhaps having longer or more dangerous combat would assist in bringing Templars back in-line.<BR><BR></LI> <LI><FONT color=#ccff00><STRONG>Group instant heal range is too short</STRONG></FONT><BR>Group reactive is normally 25m.  Our group instant heals only range for 10m. <BR><BR></LI> <LI><SPAN><FONT color=#ccff00><STRONG>Divine Arbitration</STRONG></FONT> <BR>The spell doesnt work well for saving classes other than Mages, it plunges many people into orange when you use it to save a fighter, it should evenly balance out the % hp of the group so after casting you would all end up at equal health, even if its all orange, make it so everyone would be an even % afterwards rather than random bars all over. The spell needs a quicker recast, its not the most insane spell ever that it needs a 15 minute recast!  In addition, there's no change in penalty from Adept I to Adept III.<BR><BR></SPAN></LI> <LI><STRONG><FONT color=#ccff00>More "effects"</FONT></STRONG><BR>A general recurring theme among Templar requests is to return some flavor to individual spells.  Whether this includes a small mitigation boost with Amelioration line or other bonus effects, these extra effects were widely enjoyed and appreciated. <BR><BR></LI> <LI><FONT color=#ccff00><STRONG>Resolve Issues</STRONG></FONT><BR>Resolve and Ardent Resolve seem to take too long to cast, too long for recast, and too much power. <BR><BR></LI> <LI><FONT color=#ccff00><STRONG>Reactives Should Be More Efficient</STRONG></FONT><BR>When a ward's duration expires, any unused amount of the ward is applied as a heal.  Reactives should work similarly, in that they should also heal any unused amount at the end of duration.  This will assist with healing avoidance based fighters, such as monks.<BR><BR></LI> <LI><STRONG><FONT color=#ccff00>Sign Line does not have a unique nor lasting spell effect</FONT></STRONG><BR>Many Templars complain that Sign of Weakness et al are difficult to utilize because members within the group often cannot tell the difference on which targets have this effect currently.  A "Soothe" or "Mezmerization" style multi-color effect with a unique sound telll would assist greatly in determining whether or not a creature is under the effects of this spell. <BR><BR></LI> <LI><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG><FONT color=#ccff00>Peacock Quests seem a bit difficult for some Templars</FONT><BR></STRONG></FONT>Some of the solo quests in the Peacock quests seem particularly difficult according to reports from a segment of the Templar community.<BR><BR></LI> <LI><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00><FONT color=#ccff00>Wisdom does not seem to be affecting heals.</FONT><BR></FONT></STRONG>It was widely believed prior to the revamp that wisdom would be affecting heals.  Though it's apparantly that Intelligence affects spell damage, there is no apparant effect for having more wisdom.  Wisdom has long been a primary attribute of all healing classes - including even Paladins.<BR><BR></LI> <LI><FONT color=#cccccc><STRIKE><STRONG>Reverence is not considered useful by many Templars<BR></STRONG>Many Templars do not use Reverence for various reasons cited, including:  not effective enough even at higher quality (Adept III only gives back 140%); duration is not long enough (15 seconds isn't even long enough for most pulls); or just confusion over what the point/purpose of the spell is supposed to be.  Perhaps an explanation from Lockeye or another developer letting us know what the envisioned point of the spell is could help Templars figure out how the spell is supposed to be used, and we can work to come up with better solution toward its effectiveness.<BR></STRIKE></FONT><STRONG><FONT color=#ff9900>Reverence effectiveness increased dramatically in Live Update 18<BR>Reverence now able to be cast on raid friends (not just group) with Live Update 21<BR>Reverence now has shorter cast time and decreased power use per Live Update 23<BR><BR></FONT></STRONG></LI> <LI><STRIKE><FONT color=#cccccc><STRONG>Undead Situational Damage <BR></STRONG>More undead quests would help clerics to take advantage of our Strike line more.  In addition, having more access to ways to damage undead ...or even increasing the undead damage we already produce seems to be a willing compromise many Templars would be willing to accept in place of an outright overall DPS boost.</FONT></STRIKE><BR><FONT color=#ff6600><STRONG>Undead related Achievements available with Kingdom of Sky with Live Update 20<BR>Strike Line increased in damage (24.9% increase)</STRONG></FONT></LI></OL> <P><BR><BR><BR></P> <P><FONT size=2><FONT size=2><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ff0000 size=4><STRONG><FONT size=5>III. The Prayers of Templars<BR></FONT></STRONG></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT size=2><FONT size=2><STRONG><FONT color=#99ffff size=5>Feedback/Wishlists: Templar<BR></FONT></STRONG></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=2><FONT size=2><FONT size=2><FONT size=2>(<STRONG>SUGGESTIONS</STRONG> - What Templars would like to see)</FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT><BR></P> <OL> <LI> <DIV align=left><STRONG><FONT color=#ccffff>More shield types</FONT> </STRONG><BR>Templars could be able to use round or kite shields instead of just bucklers.  As it currently stands, all priests may use bucklers, though priests may use heavier armors.  Shields assist with avoidance which would give more defensive Templars a better chance in toe-to-toe melee combat (which we're in more frequently than other Templars since we don't have roots or snares to rely upon).<BR><BR></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><STRONG><FONT color=#ccffff>Any ideas that we allowed to melee a little better?  <FONT color=#ff0000>UPDATE!!</FONT><BR></FONT></STRONG>Perhaps a Yaulp or other effect to increase our melee DPS.  This effect could be added to the Rebuke spell line.  In addition to the mitigation debuff which is already there, this could also increase the weapon speed and STR of the casting Templar.  In group situations, this might result in a small DPS boost for the Templar which likely won't matter all that much, in and of itself.  However, in a soloing situation, this boost could make a world of difference.<BR><STRONG><FONT color=#ff6600>Melee related Achievements available with Kingdom of Sky, including Yaulp<BR>Autoattack damage increased with Live Update 21</FONT></STRONG><BR><BR></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><STRONG><FONT color=#ccffff>Holy Acolyte to do something?</FONT></STRONG><BR>When soloing, perhaps the Holy Acolyte could assist the Templar in some fashion...assisting with damage spells or by increasing the ability of the Templar to melee.  When grouping, perhaps the Templar could assist with random group cures or small buffs.<BR><BR></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><STRONG><FONT color=#ccffff>Shorter Cast Time</FONT></STRONG><BR>Most spells generally have long casting or recast times.  Perhaps allowing Templars to use their damage spells more quickly would be a consideration...or simply decreasing cast times for healing lines.<BR><FONT color=#ff9900><STRONG>Beam of Faith now have shorter casting times per Live Update 18<BR><FONT color=#ff9900>Facile Grace and other Achievements now available with Kingdom of Sky</FONT></STRONG></FONT><BR><BR></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><FONT color=#ccffff><STRONG>Possible Change to Mark of Kings</STRONG><BR></FONT>Add a reverse damage shield effect to Mark of Kings in addition to the divine debuff and chance at proc heal (or alter the heal to be constant).  Every time a creature attacks while "Marked", it would take a small amount of divine damage.  Every time a player attacks a marked target, that player would take a small heal (or take a mark effect upon themselves which acts as a small regen).  In groups, this would assist in a support role for Templars.  Soloing, it would allow Templars to attack more without having to stop to heal quite as often.  By adjusting the Mark damage effect to work only on successful attacks, it would also be more effective with mitigation based players rather than avoidance based (again, assisting Templars in full plate more).  Alternatively, simply increasing the amount of healing performed by Mark of Kings (or Princes or Celestial) would be seen favorably by some.<BR><BR></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><STRONG><FONT color=#ccffff>Increase Debuffing Abilities</FONT></STRONG><BR>Previous to the update, Templars could debuff more than Divine resistance.  Some Templars are requesting that we be able to debuff Magical, Mental, Strength, or other resistances or abilities.<BR><BR></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><STRONG><FONT color=#ccffff>Self-only damage shield<BR></FONT></STRONG>A self-only damage-dealing shield spell (like Nettleshield).  To keep inline with the Templar flavor it would be a 'holy' aura that deals Divine damage.  It would deal damage to your opponent when they successfully attack you in melee.  This would allow a boost to dps in Solo play but not in groups.  I think it would make sense (for the Templar flavor) for it to do extra damage to undead. <BR><BR></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><FONT color=#ccffff><STRONG>Reverence needs more "oomph" <BR></STRONG></FONT>Though fixed in a recent update to include much more power to health ratio, Reverence still seems to lack any real power.  Many Templars would like to see this spell powered up a bit, with either more healing, longer duration, or both.<BR><BR></DIV></LI> <LI> <DIV align=left><STRONG><FONT color=#ccffff>Better Logging/Parsing Ability to Track Heals <FONT color=#ff0000> </FONT><BR></FONT></STRONG>Currently, logs aren't showing all heals.  Reverence and our spell wards are not parsing.<BR><FONT color=#ff9900><STRONG>As of Live Update 19, it seems that all Templar spells except Reverence and wards are now parsing.  </STRONG></FONT><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV></LI></OL><FONT size=2><FONT size=2><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></FONT> <DIV><BR><FONT size=2><FONT size=2><FONT size=2><BR></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <P align=left><FONT size=1><STRONG>Credits:<BR></STRONG></FONT><FONT size=1>Everyone on the Templar boards. Please continue posting bugs, issues, feedback and wishlists.  Regardless of personal issues or politics, I'll attempt to faithfully gather the information as best I can.  </FONT></P> <P align=left><FONT size=1><STRONG>Reasoning:<BR></STRONG>Our class has issues and will always have issues.  This is an attempt to put together those issues which seem to have the most widespread support in order to raise visibility.  </FONT></P> <P align=left><FONT size=1><STRONG>Version Updates:<BR></STRONG></FONT><FONT size=1>[11.15.05]  Created New Volume in same format Xrande used for the original.  Original Volume can be found </FONT><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=13&message.id=4618&view=by_date_ascending&page=1" target=_blank><FONT size=1>HERE</FONT></A><FONT size=1>.<BR>[11.16.05]  Clarified some language.  Added Sign of Weakness bug.  Added Reverence and Soothe issues.  Added Quick Combat issue.  Added Wisdom Heal bug.<BR>[11.16.05]  Added several suggestions from AzraelAzgard<BR>[11.17.05]  Added several suggestions from Meribor, Adaman, and one more from AzraelAzgard.<BR>[11.20.05]  Added bug on upgrading stuns.  Corrected typo.<BR>[11.21.05]  Added items to wishlist.  Clarified some listings. <BR>[11.22.05]  Moved Undead Damage listing from Bugs to Issues<BR>[11.23.05]  Added Wishlist item for log tracking of heals<BR>[11.28.05]  Added suggestion for more debuffing ability<BR>[11.29.05]  Added Issue regarding Reactive effeciency<BR>[11.30.05]  Added bug regarding Mark line hate generation<BR>[11.30.04]  Added fixes to bugs brought about by Live Update 17<BR>[12.02.05]  Expanded on Shorter Cast Time Suggestion<BR>[12.05.05]  Added Spell Effect request for Sign line under Issues section<BR>[12.08.05]  Addressed format and presentation a bit.<BR>[12.13.05]  Added bug for Divine Arbitration.  Updated bug listing for Mark line. <BR>[12.16.05]  Fixed typo in suggestions - added suggestion<BR>[12.21.05]  Updated many entries per Live Update 18<BR>[12.29.05]  Updated format - moved fixes to ends of lists to keep open issues at the top.  Added Peacock Quest difficulty to Issues section.<BR>[01.04.06]  Listed Sanctuary and Pets issue to bug list.<BR>[01.05.06]  Updated entire list to clarify wording and verbiage.  Moved Wisdom affecting Heals from Bugs to Issues.<BR>[01.15.06]  Updated Mark of Kings description in Suggestions.<BR>[01.26.06]  Updated bugs to include Involuntary trauma cure issue<BR>[01.31.06]  Clarified several typos.<BR>[02.16.06]  Added new Reverence listing to wishlist<BR>[02.27.06]  Added new Bug, as well as updated several items for Live Update 19 and 20.<BR>[03.23.06]  Added new Soothe bug.  Updated several damage related issues which were improved upon with Live Update 21.<BR>[03.24.06]  Removed Soothe bug.  Re-added parsing suggestion to include Reverence.  New bug for Grand Restoration.<BR>[05.22.06]  Added Buff stacking bug.<BR>[07.09.06]  Removed Undead Situational Damage Issue.  Streamlined a few entries.  </FONT></P> <P align=left><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Kendricke on <span class=date_text>07-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:36 AM</span>

[zorbdan]

<P>Ohh look at all the pretty colors ! hehe nice post.</P> <P>I want Complete Heal, I will not rest until I get it !</P>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> zorbdan wrote:<BR> <P>Ohh look at all the pretty colors !<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm simply using the same general format and colors that Xrande used in the original "Holy Books" post.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Nari]

How does everyone feel about modifying the acolyte?  It is actually a fun spell, it would be kind of silly to expect a fun spell to be functional. (Yeah, I know you can't have functional without fun, but you saw what happened to the paladins.) Do you think it would be more balanced for us to replace something with some sort of pet? FYI: I personally believe that furies should be able to whoopsomeass because they turn into tough looking creatures.  I don't think that the rest of us should not be able to lay a divine smackdown in some cases.  I do like the fact that we are great against undead and such.  I would be happier with shorter cast time for some healing spells than more DPS, but that is because I have that two-timing conjuror to kill things for me. <div></div>

[OlaeviaTraisharan]

<DIV>Some sort of divine damage-dealing shield would probably be a good choice, but it doesn't really fit with the whole image of a Templar. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Templars not being able to solo effectively is an age old argument that dates waaaaay back to the original EverQuest. Clerics were upset they couldn't invis, SOW, or deal wizard-like damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bumping up the smite line a teensy bit would also go a long way... though the self-only damage shield would be a good thing... not too powerful, but can't cast on anyone else.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You don't want to make us in-line with Fury damage. That would make us identical to them in every way except for utility.</DIV>

[SnowKnight]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OlaeviaTraisharan wrote: <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You don't want to make us in-line with Fury damage. That would make us identical to them in every way except for utility.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Why not? They made fury healing in line with templars. </DIV>

[Tesh]

<P>A very good post K </P> <P>Short, precise and totally achievable.</P> <P>Maybe wish 3 is a little excessive, but all the other points are easily addressable without causing </P> <P>uproar or inbalance.</P> <P>Good points to take fwd to the Devs</P> <P>Gwin</P> <P>Templar 52 Splitpaw</P> <P>Cleric 65 Morule Thule</P>

[Dalchar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SnowKnight wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OlaeviaTraisharan wrote: <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You don't want to make us in-line with Fury damage. That would make us identical to them in every way except for utility.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Why not? They made fury healing in line with templars. </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Actually, they brought everyone up to being relatively on par with templars.  But they do have a valid point... if you nuke like a fury, deal damage like a fury... then... wouldn't you be a fury... just with oddessy, more debuffs, buffs, better rez, pacify, stun, lotto heals, wearing plate, etc... </P> <P>Things may not be equally powerful, useful, parseable, or neat, but still a valid point... and one that this thread tries to address <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><p>Message Edited by Dalcharis on <span class=date_text>11-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:13 PM</span>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Dalcharis wrote: <p>Actually, they brought everyone up to being relatively on par with templars.  But they do have a valid point... if you nuke like a fury, deal damage like a fury... then... wouldn't you be a fury... just with oddessy, more debuffs, buffs, better rez, pacify, stun, lotto heals, wearing plate, etc... </p> <p>Things may not be equally powerful, useful, parseable, or neat, but still a valid point... and one that this thread tries to address <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Message Edited by Dalcharis on <span class="date_text">11-15-2005</span> <span class="time_text">07:13 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>So why would anyone make a templar? All priest classes heal like templars but contribute more dps to groups and can solo faster. Even if templars soloing DPS was brought to fury level, we would still have heals that work differently. Like Kend has said, our problems dont lie in healing. It lies in every other stuff that defines a healer. We are defined to be equal healers as every one else and that is it. Other healers retained their defining skills after they were brought in line with templars with healing. So what we need is DPS that is not dependant on the members of the group. Like a conjurer in another thread said, he prefers a fury over a templar when duoing since healing does not mean everything. I myself dont need any new nor improved heals since I can heal as well all others can (I do want Reverence and Sanctuary fixed), instead I want ability to solo effectively and ability to bring any group enough dps to validate me. Even doubling my healing capability would not justify my presence in most groups since any healer can already keep that group alive in normal situations. So increased healing would be overkill and thus wouldn't make us any better in groups nor soloing. The fact is that what SoE did was a very bad thing when it comes to class variety. As it is, variety is achieved by secondary skills which means that those with best DPS are the ones that will be chosen over the others when there is a choice. And that again is a fact.</span><div></div>

[Fildren_the_Templ]

<P>I want :</P> <P>- More dps ( but less than fury). Or give us offensive stance which require 3 concentration slot..</P> <P>- Reverance upgraded ( 500% or direct heal to make it usefull on mt)</P> <P>- Divine arbitration upgraded ( Change it to % instead of total group hp.. And lower recast time !!&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>- Recast time of sanctuary lowered.</P> <P>- Sign of .... more than 16sec.</P> <P>- Casting time of soothe lowered.</P> <P>- Less fizzles & interrupt.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>(Sorry for my english)</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Fildren_the_Templar on <span class=date_text>11-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:13 AM</span>

[cadrach]

<DIV>I posted in the other posts but a possible bug is the fact that buying an upgrade to sign of infirmity seems to do nothing.  Only going up in level helps duration of spell.<BR><BR>At least that is what it seems.<BR><BR>By the way, otherwise I love the way it is now working,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(I have posted this in other messages but realize I had the wrong post last night.  I really wanted it in this post.  Man I was tired.)</DIV><p>Message Edited by cadrach on <span class=date_text>11-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:28 AM</span>

[Kendricke]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> cadrach wrote:<BR> <DIV>I posted in the other posts but a possible bug is the fact that buying an upgrade to sign of infirmity seems to do nothing.  Only going up in level helps duration of spell.<BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Added to bugs section.<BR></DIV>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dalcharis wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Actually, they brought everyone up to being relatively on par with templars.  But they do have a valid point... if you nuke like a fury, deal damage like a fury... then... wouldn't you be a fury... just with oddessy, more debuffs, buffs, better rez, pacify, stun, lotto heals, wearing plate, etc... </P> <P>Things may not be equally powerful, useful, parseable, or neat, but still a valid point... and one that this thread tries to address <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Agreed.  The point of this thread is to ride the middle.  I'm not looking to become all powerful once more.  I'm just looking for facts and more methods by which to equalize out Templars in relations to other priests. </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P>

[Kayle]

<P>Caethre ALREADY started a thread on 9-27 requesting consolidated feedback for the devs to read.  So why do you feel the need to trump her post and put your own in place of it, Kendricke?</P> <P>This is just BAD manners on your part.</P> <P>This thread should be locked!</P>

[Orid]

<DIV>Good post Kendrick.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think our DPS should be upgraded or we should be given something else which makes up for it. When grouping with a fury and parsing every battle (full, balanced group, taking on cyclops in PoF), we would take turns healing and doing DPS. As a level 55 templar with nearly every peice fabled and all spells master or adept 3, my average dps was 70 - 180. The fury, being the same level as me, but with less fabled, was dealing 400 - 500 dps average.. the person playing the fury doesn't play fury as a main but wanted to help the fury level up, so I'm guessing the dps would be greater then that. I did the same thing with an Inquisitor and yet again my dps was 70 - 180, the Inquisitor was 220 - 300 so it really wasn't a divine resist problem. The majority of the battles were single group mobs (which would account for the lower range on dps) and some were groups of 3 or more (accounting for higher dps, esp for the fury with that neat aoe fire spell).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The problem is for me to do that amount of DPS in normal group situations, I would have to chain cast my nukes which leaves little to no room for healing. Because keeping the tank alive is our primary job, there is little window for casting damage spells, and because they do so little damage, our contribution to the overall dps of the group is so small that we are better off turning sprint on to use that extra mana =p. With a fury, they can heal and when they get an opportunity to nuke, their nukes deal such a large amount of damage that they aren't required to chain cast nukes to contribute to the DPS of the group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The funny thing is that a year ago, I never thought I would ever be making a post asking for more DPS. I made my character to heal and keep people alive and figured that because my other abilities were nothign to write home about, that I would be one of the primary healers in the game, which was true up until LU13. The game has changed and now the classes you would need to have a kick [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] group are now having to explain how they contribute to groups. I feel the guardians pain... I would rather have a beserker or a monk tanking because they tank just as well but do a crap load more DPS. On the flip side (when playing my level 55 troubador), I would rather have a fury or inquisitor in my group because they can heal just as good as any and do a crap load of DPS and Inquisitor's add +dps to melee. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sure, in a pinch I would take a Guardian to tank and a Templar to heal... but given the choice, I would take a zerker first, monk second, SK third, guardian 4th and pally last. In the healer court, I would take a Fury first, Shaman / Defiler second (melee buffs), Inquisitor third and Templar last. Pre LU13, I would choose a templar first and guardian first because they were the best at the reason why they were in the group. Now that the tables have turned and everyone in the same archtypes can do just as well as the other, it's their secondary traits which make them desireable to a group. If your secondary traits are not DPS related then move aside because there is someone else in your arch type who can add DPS, be it from buffs or direct damage. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I always thought that the more desired members of a group pay a penalty with secondary abilities and solo-ability. Which was true pre lu13.. Post LU13 we are still paying that penalty but are not more desired in groups above others in the same archtype.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>more sustainable DPS = mobs die faster = faster EXP gain = Level faster and get to 60 faster. In pretty much every MMORPG I've played (and I've played pretty much all of them which have hit the US shelves) that is the only truth they share.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Death = No Exp = Reason for Templar / Guardian (they ensure the best survivability of a group pre LU13)... You take away the risk of Death = No reason for Templar / Guardian over the others in their archtype. Anyhow, that's how I see the problem with Guardian's and Templars. In raid situations, it's different, but 90% of the game's populace doesn't raid. As a raid leader of a high end guild, I can say that templar's and guardian's have their place in Raids because of the defensive / keep alive-ness (if that's a word) they add with buffs). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyhow, I'm not sure how SoE should fix this problem.. more DPS seems like the answer because that's what we lack that other classes have, but I hope the game hasn't grown that shallow. Personally, I'm teetering on the edge of cancelling my two accounts, I have high hopes for the game and still believe it has the best potential to be the best MMO out there, but I'm dissapointed with the cookie cutter, 2 + 2 = 4 path the game has gone, I'm not sure of a better way to express my feelings about it I guess.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ballinor Irrybis          / Oridio Barsimmon</DIV> <DIV>55 Halfling Templar / 55 Froglok Troubador</DIV> <DIV>Aei'Desis                 / Guk Server</DIV>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fildren_the_Templar wrote:<BR> <P>I want :</P> <P>- Reverance upgraded ( 500% or direct heal to make it usefull on mt)</P> <P>- Casting time of soothe lowered.</P> <P> </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Already addressed Fury and Interrupt issues.  Added the above issues as well.  If other Templars start pointing out the other issues you raised, I'll add those as well.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[OlaeviaTraisharan]

<DIV>Did anyone ever stop to think that the reason we have less DPS than a Fury is because we wear plate armor?</DIV>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kaylena wrote:<BR> <P>Caethre ALREADY started a thread on 9-27 requesting consolidated feedback for the devs to read.  So why do you feel the need to trump her post and put your own in place of it, Kendricke?</P> <P>This is just BAD manners on your part.</P> <P>This thread should be locked!</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>If you're going to stick with that argument, I could point out that her own post was a "trump" of my "<A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=13&message.id=11100" target=_blank>Attempt at Constructive Feedback</A>" post made the day before (September 26).  She even refers to that thread in an off-handed manner within the first two paragraphs citing:</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV><EM>"Unlike some other threads, this thread will not begin from the assumption that the Templar class is essentially fine, and that anyone who disagrees is a 'whiner' who doesn't know how to play their class, but rather, that we Templars have a set of valid concerns, and we do not want to see our community split apart and many leave the game. This thread is not going to play the fanboy tune, but it is not going to assume the sky has fallen either, it will just list suggestions for making us feel we have a role to fulfil</EM>. <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width=16 border=0>"  -Caethre</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>If you're truly going to make the argument that this thread should be locked based on the fact that it's somehow "competitive", should I then make the argument that her post was designed to compete against mine in the first place? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Honestly, why is this suddenly a competition?  What's the award?  A sticky?  Recognition?  I don't need more recognition.  I'll even vote that Caethre's thread gets stickied if that helps.  Personally, I'm not in this for the glory or the recognition.  I never have been.  If you feel I'm stealing Caethre's thunder, then I apologize.  It doesn't mean I'm going to back off and stop trying to help.  I just have my own way of going about things.  If you don't approve, that's your right.  Just let me be and I'll not bother you.  Indeed, I'd appreciate the same consideration. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OlaeviaTraisharan wrote:<BR> <DIV>Did anyone ever stop to think that the reason we have less DPS than a Fury is because we wear plate armor?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Oh, I agree.  Frankly, it's not my personal issue...but it's enough of an issue for other Templars that I've placed it up top for consideration from developers.  I've also pointed out that mitigation doesn't <EM>seem</EM> to be working as intended, leading at least to the perception that for casters, plate is inferior to lighter armors.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Kendricke on <span class=date_text>11-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:52 AM</span>

[Kayle]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kaylena wrote:<BR> <P>Caethre ALREADY started a thread on 9-27 requesting consolidated feedback for the devs to read.  So why do you feel the need to trump her post and put your own in place of it, Kendricke?</P> <P>This is just BAD manners on your part.</P> <P>This thread should be locked!</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>If you're going to stick with that argument, I could point out that her own post was a "trump" of my "<A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=13&message.id=11100" target=_blank>Attempt at Constructive Feedback</A>" post made the day before (September 26).  She even refers to that thread in an off-handed manner within the first two paragraphs citing:</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV><EM>"Unlike some other threads, this thread will not begin from the assumption that the Templar class is essentially fine, and that anyone who disagrees is a 'whiner' who doesn't know how to play their class, but rather, that we Templars have a set of valid concerns, and we do not want to see our community split apart and many leave the game. This thread is not going to play the fanboy tune, but it is not going to assume the sky has fallen either, it will just list suggestions for making us feel we have a role to fulfil</EM>. <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width=16 border=0>"  -Caethre</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>If you're truly going to make the argument that this thread should be locked based on the fact that it's somehow "competitive", should I then make the argument that her post was designed to compete against mine in the first place? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Honestly, why is this suddenly a competition?  What's the award?  A sticky?  Recognition?  I don't need more recognition.  I'll even vote that Caethre's thread gets stickied if that helps.  Personally, I'm not in this for the glory or the recognition.  I never have been.  If you feel I'm stealing Caethre's thunder, then I apologize.  It doesn't mean I'm going to back off and stop trying to help.  I just have my own way of going about things.  If you don't approve, that's your right.  Just let me be and I'll not bother you.  Indeed, I'd appreciate the same consideration. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You haven't helped.  You have only hindered the progress that Templars should be getting.  Caethre posted that thread on 9-27 after you consistently argued there was nothing wrong with Templars, so tell the truth.  Even the title of your thread before hers, "Attempt at constructive feedback" was a condescending post geared to shame everyone into providing feedback YOUR WAY.  It's no wonder that thread died in the dust pages.  Since you're such a man of facts, let's look at the facts.  Caethre has PROVEN to care about Templars and illustrates in far more posts then you ever provided, what is needed to make them a class in their own right.  You have done nothing but argue 'we are fine'.  You are therefore no candidate to be posting for the masses here.  In fact, if you see nothing wrong, then I fail to understand what you are doing here anyway.  If you do see something wrong, have the decency to consolidate the issues under her thread and knock it off with the "I just have my way of going about things", when what you really mean is, "I can't stand Caethre and this is my way of getting even" like you have done with so many people on these forums.</P> <P>Funny, but why is it almost everyone seems to think you ARE posting this now for some type of twisted recognition?  I don't know what you're up to Kendricke, but knock it off already.  I'm requesting this thread be locked for the sole reason there is NO NEED for TWO of them.</P>

[OlaeviaTraisharan]

<DIV>Umm... why are you attacking him?</DIV>

[Kayle]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OlaeviaTraisharan wrote:<BR> <DIV>Umm... why are you attacking him?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It's a long story Olaevia and goes back to posts made even prior to the revamp going live.  You weren't here for it so unless you went back and read thousands of posts, you wouldn't get it.  But I assure you, Kendricke does get it.

[cadrach]

Personally attacking him is not the answer

[Meribor]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <p align="left"><font size="1"><strong>Reasoning:</strong>Our class has issues an will always have issues.  More to the point, I've been accused by so many recently of attempting to be a class spokesperson that I've finally decided to put on the mantle.  If I'm going to earn the title, I may as well put in the work.</font></p> <hr></blockquote></span> While I appreciate your attempts to 'help' the templar class, I have to ask where on earth you got the idea that so many of us want you to be our class spokesperson?  In my opinion, you're too focused on one aspect of the templar problems by insisting on parses to prove everything including the unproveable (the fun factor).  I think that Caethre is doing a much better job in that aspect though I don't agree with everything she posts, but I do think she's got a better handle on the overall issues that the templar community is complaining about ... or is at least willing to listen to other suggestions beyond the 'facts'. I don't know why I keep coming back to the templar forums, since I have switched to playing another class.  Guess I just keep hoping that something will be done to make my templar fun to play again as I loved playing her prior to the revamp ... slow xping and all. Just my 2 coppers.

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>OlaeviaTraisharan wrote:<div>Did anyone ever stop to think that the reason we have less DPS than a Fury is because we wear plate armor?</div><hr></blockquote>Wearing plate itself reduces our DPS due interruptions. Thus we should have higher DPS than furies to cover the loss.</span><div></div>

[Kendricke]

<P>EDIT:   I appreciate that some feel a need to knock on me here...and really anywhere I bother to post.  However, I'd appreciate it if we could at least pretend to contribute to the conversation rather than attempting to put me on the defensive within this post.  Therefore, I'll no longer be responding to personal attacks in this post...but will simply report them.  </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Kendricke on <span class=date_text>11-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:06 AM</span>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote>cadrach wrote:<div></div>Personally attacking him is not the answer<hr></blockquote>True, he doesn't seem to understand the hint.</span><div></div>

[Gcha]

<P>The focus on Furies here (and in other threads) is a problem for me.  This is starting to look too much like a templar vs. fury issue, with people throwing in the perfunctory "and all other priests" to make it look balanced.</P> <P>My issues with the templar class didn't arise from anything furies have or don't have, and I think that's true for the rest of you.  Fury simply looks like a well-balanced enjoyable class now.  Good for them.  We sure don't want a good class nerfed.  Templars need to also be a better balanced more enjoyable class, but we don't need the constant focus on furies to do it.<BR></P>

[Kayle]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE>cadrach wrote:<BR> Personally attacking him is not the answer<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>True, he doesn't seem to understand the hint.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>It's not an attack.  It's primarily asking why this is being posted when we only NEED one consolidated thread for the devs to look at!  I don't need a thread asking for solutions in ADDITION to a player illustrating what feels wrong for him and that's what Kendricke originally posted.  Caethre posted with the intention to list what the players felt was wrong and did not demand solutions be attached, nor did she respond by telling players to go re-learn their class.</P> <P>I fail to see how Kendricke has accomplished what Caethre has when all I have read for months is that we don't know how to play our class from him.  If anything was a personal smite, telling these players to re-roll because they don't know how to play a Templar, that was it.  We're all going to just forget he said that though?</P> <P>The point remains, if you want a post stickied for the devs to review, ONE thread is sufficient!  The other should be locked so the devs have less posts to muddle through.</P>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gchang wrote:<BR> <P>The focus on Furies here (and in other threads) is a problem for me.  This is starting to look too much like a templar vs. fury issue, with people throwing in the perfunctory "and all other priests" to make it look balanced.</P> <P>My issues with the templar class didn't arise from anything furies have or don't have, and I think that's true for the rest of you.  Fury simply looks like a well-balanced enjoyable class now.  Good for them.  We sure don't want a good class nerfed.  Templars need to also be a better balanced more enjoyable class, but we don't need the constant focus on furies to do it.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Since I personally have no real issue with Fury DPS being higher than other priests, I'm only able to compile suggestions I see.  For what it's worth, I do agree with you though that we, as a whole, tend to concentrate far too much on Furies as the focal point.  At this point, the only comparisons I'm seeing on DPS are "Templars vs. Furies".  I never hear of a Templar against Defiler or Mystic debate.  I almost never hear Inquisitors used as a comparison.</P> <P> </P>

[Caethre]

OOC.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gchang wrote:<BR> <P>The focus on Furies here (and in other threads) is a problem for me.  This is starting to look too much like a templar vs. fury issue, with people throwing in the perfunctory "and all other priests" to make it look balanced.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I just wanted to point out, at least for me, Fury is taken as my example only because I only had time to level ONE other priest class, and so I now comment mostly only comparing what I know with what I know. I believe, however, that Fury and Templar are just the two ends of a trend along the six priest classes,  where the most "defensive" priests suffered more and the more offensive ones suffer less as a result of LU13, and then both druid classes got a further boost in LU15. This resulted in Fury being top of the pile, Warden somewhat lower, and Templar bottom (and Inquisitor not much better off than Templar). The reason for this is apparent from looking at a range of threads and the issues presented on them, with evidence and opinions from (by this point) hundreds of posters.</P> <P>So yes, you are correct, there is a danger of the perception being that this is a Templar vs Fury issue, but really, it is not. It is a priest balancing issue across all six classes, and a number have already commented, there is an issue with there even being so many priest classes if they are all going to heal equally. Personally, I will be quite angry if SoE nerf the Fury class in any way (I am loving playing it, something I cannot say for my Templar since LU13) - what is needed, is a re-alignment of the other classes, especially the Cleric classes, based on where the Fury is now.</P> <P>Felishanna [53 Templar]<BR>Annaelisa [39 Fury]</P> <P> </P>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caethre wrote:<BR><BR>I believe, however, that Fury and Templar are just the two ends of a trend along the six priest classes,  where the most "defensive" priests suffered more and the more offensive ones suffer less as a result of LU13, and then both druid classes got a further boost in LU15. This resulted in Fury being top of the pile, Warden somewhat lower, and Templar bottom (and Inquisitor not much better off than Templar). The reason for this is apparent from looking at a range of threads and the issues presented on them, with evidence and opinions from (by this point) hundreds of posters. <P>So yes, you are correct, there is a danger of the perception being that this is a Templar vs Fury issue, but really, it is not. It is a priest balancing issue across all six classes, and a number have already commented, there is an issue with there even being so many priest classes if they are all going to heal equally. Personally, I will be quite angry if SoE nerf the Fury class in any way (I am loving playing it, something I cannot say for my Templar since LU13) - what is needed, is a re-alignment of the other classes, especially the Cleric classes, based on where the Fury is now.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I completely agree.  I think this is one of the best descriptions of the perception issue that exists.  Adding a new issue based loosely on this addressing combat speed and difficulty being more DPS intensive post-update.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[OlaeviaTraisharan]

<DIV>I think a coworker and fellow guildmate put it to me best...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With the recent beefing up of the HoTs, it was done basically across the Druid classes and not specifically to Wardens. This means that though Fury heals were subpar before with a counterbalance of nice nukes, now they have had their healing bumped up along with Wardens without anyone considering their nukes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They are the flavour of the month class right now. They can heal as well as a Templar. They can nuke nearly as well as a mage class. Something is going to have to give. I'm pretty sure the devs know about it and that the Fury class isn't *supposed* to be this effective at either task.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Note that I'm not calling for a nerf by any means. I really just wish players could step back a moment, and stop being players and think about overall game balance rather than just their own class.</DIV>

[Gcha]

When somebody starts sending me a paycheck, I’ll start spending my time anaylzing and pondering game balance. In the meantime, while I don’t disregard game balance entirely, I am the one sending checks and my primary concern is whether the toons I pay for and spend a lot of time working on are reasonably functional and enjoyable. <P>SOE created the problem here by making too many classes with too little to do. As a result, they basically have to make classes which are functionally almost identical, while they try to make it sound different or feel different somehow. So you have six priest classes all of whom, with minor variations, want to do the same thing. Well maybe shammies are a bit off to the side. I don’t see that much dissatisfaction from shammies. Maybe their classes are pretty much what the expected and they’re reasonably happy with them. So, let’s say you have four priest classes who want to be adequate healers for all situations AND want to be able to solo reasonably well, WHILE being different [or, as an aside, how much do we really care about being different if we’re happy with our toons]. In this context "adequate healers for all situations" functionally means "equally" because less is not adequate and more is either pointless or unbalancing. Never gonna happen.</P> <P>As I have said many times there is only one way to fix this. As unappealing as it might be, they might as well go ahead and get it done before this goes any further. Simply combine priest classes down to three (cleric, druid, shammy) and give people some training choices to flavor their toons more offensive or more defensive as they prefer (and then give them a way to buy or quest for a respec at 55 or whatever in case they decide they need to be set up a different way when/if raiding becomes the mainstay of their game.</P> <P>And when you reduce priest classes to three, you then have the option with the variety of meaningful activities, strategies, and approches which are available to create some real diversity, AND, they could get rid of some of the contrived trick spells and concentrate on real, sensible, meaningful spells.</P> <P>Unless and until this is done, everyone is kidding themselves if they believe for one moment that this is ever going to be "balanced" to the point that at any given time X class is not very happy and Z class is not very unhappy. Or, we can keep going on with the back and forth nerf/buff cycle.</P> <p>Message Edited by Gchang on <span class=date_text>11-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:29 AM</span>

[icecreamso]

<DIV>I make these suggestions based on Templars needing more DPS, but not wanting to make Templars into plate wearing Furies.  Furies fight from a distance and so only need light armor.  Templars have heavy armor because they are supposed to be in the middle of the melee.  This fits in with the historic definition of a Templar, a temple knight.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Templars should have respectable melee ability.  They should have a line of Combat Arts that increases damage, and one that stuns, but not HOs that use Combat Arts.  They should have a self buff spell that increases melee DPS, like an attack rate or a damage boost, with short duration and refresh times.  I wouldn't say Templars need more damage from their direct damage spells.  They shouldn't have to rely on DD spells for such a high percentage of their DPS.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I see Templars as being like cousins to Paladins, with less health and weaker melee ability, but great healing and buffs.  If two sub-classes are going to be comparable, it's best that they are from different primary classes.  Let Furies be like Mages.  I want my Templar more like a Fighter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ulrych</DIV> <DIV>40 Templar</DIV>

[OlaeviaTraisharan]

<DIV>Heh. It sounds like you want to be a god, not a Templar.</DIV>

[CasieStarfi]

<DIV>Like I posted in Felishanna's thread, I'd be a completely happy templar with the following changes.  =)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>1. </EM></DIV> <DIV>Unlink BoV.  All healers would benefit and it would give us a little something to throw while we are standing around waiting for recast timers.  Almost all of us like this idea!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>2.</EM></DIV> <DIV>Divine Arbitration (adept 1 and 3) is losing what percent of hit points?  Both looks like 10%?  It says it becomes more efficient with upgrades but we need some clarification here.  Is it upgrading?  If it is, it needs to be more efficient.   Also its 15 min reuse timer is toooo long.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> <DIV>3.</DIV></DIV> <DIV><EM>Power and Health</EM></DIV> <DIV>Before LU13 we had the lowest  power pool because our heals themselves were more powerful.  We had the lowest health pools because we wore heavy armor.  However since so much care has been given to balancing all of our heal amounts, and our heavy armor is no longer such an asset...perhaps we could get our power and health boosted a bit in return.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>edit: BoV meaning Bounty of Virtuos of course!  Not Vitae.  =p</DIV><p>Message Edited by CasieStarfish on <span class=date_text>11-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:31 AM</span>

[icecreamso]

It's not like I'm asking for invisibility and evac.  And I said no melee HOs and no increase to spell damage.  I just want a little bump in melee damage so that soloing a green takes 8 minutes instead of 10.

[AzraelAzgard]

<P><SPAN><FONT color=#66ffff>First list Urgent/Important: these are things that you feel need immediate attention and are very important to you.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Templar spell fixes:</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Atoning Fate - Does not proc the group heal upon mobs death if the mob is killed by a proc of any kind, on a weapon from the weapon or a buff etc.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Sanctuary - Ad1 / Ad3 identical spells, make the Ad3 better, give it a longer duration or quicker recast time.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Divine Arbitration - Ad1 / Ad3 no change in penalty, conversion penalty should go down a lot or be removed with Ad3, the spell doesnt work well for saving classes other than Mages, it plunges many people into orange when you use it to save a fighter, it should evenly balance out the % hp of the group so after casting you would all end up at equal hp, even if its all orange, make it so everyone would be an even % afterwards rather than random bars all over. The spell needs a quicker recast, its not the most insane spell ever that it needs a 15minute recast ! There are far better lvl 58 Spells for others without such extreme recasts, this spell is currently underused by most Templars because of the random hp balance and insane recast timer.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Reverance - Was allready underused and underpowered at ad3, 196% of targets mana used would be made into a self heal too, it doesnt last long and has limited use, but now the ad3 has been nerfed to 140% I dont see myself casting it again.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Unyielding Benediction - Identical to Vigilant Benediction the T5 version, currently useless because everyone just keeps using VB, give UB a point.</SPAN></P> <P>For all Priests:</P> <P>Bounty of the Virtuous - Splitpaw single target heal, completly different spell line, no upgrades, so move it to its own recast timer again rather than linking it with a different spell line.</P> <P>Group instant heal range - 10m is not far enough, we are lucky to hit more than 2 people in the group with a range if 10m on a raid and often in xp groups too, unless your group is all casters and bunched together.... change it to a range of 25m like Group Reactive and probably all priest group speciality heals, then it could hit everyone more easily in diverse groups and not be a waste of mana.</P> <P> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#66ffff>Second Not Urgent/Important:  these are things which you feel are important but not urgent and you can live with.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P>Divine Intervention (save death spells) - Need a bigger heal on them or atleast the T6 ad3+ it should be a % heal of targets max hp, 1k heal at T6 ad3 is too small.</P> <P>Combat Rezz spells - 1m is a very very small range and while in a raid or group its a faff too be looking round on the floor for a corpse to stand on while trying to heal, give it a 5m range atleast.</P> <P>Divine Praetorate - Needs a manapool buff component to bring it in line with Druid and Shammy mana + stat buffs (single target) Atm its 88 str and wis at ad3, yet Druids get a 60 int or wis and over 600 mana buff. Ive sat next to Druids in far worse gear than me that had 500 more mana self buffed than me because of this spell. All priests have very very close efficency now in their spells infact Druids are probably the most efficent now, so allow us to have balanced manapools when self buffed. Divine Praetorate needs 500 mana added to the buff at ad3, and scaling down to original version having some manapool too especially after we lost a group buff that contained a self manapool buff in the CU.</P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#66ffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#66ffff>Third Not Urgent/Not Important: these are things that you feel are being worked on but don’t really matter to you.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Templar DPS, your probably looking at changing it because lots of whiners on the forums say its low, its not low if you fight the right things i.e. undead, but the whiners want dps like Furies, sigh who chooses a priest for dps, we can solo it takes longer but what do you expect imo. This is the least serious issue for Templars.</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by AzraelAzgard on <span class=date_text>11-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:22 PM</span>

[ADW123]

<DIV>It was mentioned a while back that the ability to wear plate should balance our lower dps. Prior to LU13 I'd agree, but armor type no longer matters. Avoidance is balanced with mitigation so no matter what armor you are wearing you tank the same, be it a templar, fury or wizard for that matter. Plate in some aspects is worse than lower types of armor due to the increased interupts, as the damage of hits taken is currentlly not applied when calculating chance to interupt. The only benefit given by this is the ability to wear any armor be it cloth, leather, chain or plate. There is plenty of gear out there for all tiers so generally this is not such a big deal.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I fully believe that templars should be the absolutely worst dps in the game, considerably below a druid and shaman. They need to give us back the advantage of having plate armor though to balance this fact. The same should be present with chain, it should provide bonuses over leather. I did not make my class to do damage, and it is rare that I use my dps spells at all. I made the class to be a powerful healer that could take hits better than other priests (minus inq). If I want to do damage I will make a damage dealing class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Curaga</DIV> <DIV>55 Templar</DIV> <DIV>Unrest</DIV>

[Kendricke]

<DIV>AzraelAzgard,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I added several of your observations and suggestions.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Neherenia]

<DIV>Some Suggestions, both for the Templar class and in general I suppose, not mentioned so far in this thread (probably mentioned elsewhere but I'd be the first to admit that I have not read every single thread lol)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For Templars</DIV> <DIV>1) Restore the Mark line to how it was on Beta for a short while.  Reduced chance to proc but a far greater heal from the proc.  Believe it was 10% chance to proc instead of 20, with a heal somewhere around 60 hp per tic.  More useful and more noticeable.</DIV> <DIV>2) Upgrades to Weakness.  Still single target but increased Strength reduction.  Don't care so much about group based debuffing as the mobs fall so much faster and do less damage (working towards our reactive's strengths) then the single ^^^ do.</DIV> <DIV>3) Group power buff.  We had one that was changed to a ward.  Ward has been useful but the original was far more.  The Praetorate line is nice but self only (who'd use it on someone else heh).  A replacement line that gives raw power would be very nice, especially as other priest seem to have more useful power-affecting abilities.</DIV> <DIV>4) Mentioned many many times but the Benediction line does not upgrade well.  Suggestion is to restore the mitigation values to it.  Doesn't have to be a big value but its an easy fix to the issue (its something at least).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In General</DIV> <DIV>1) Restore gaining apprentice 1s upon leveling.  Its nice to get a taste of the new spell before you burn some hard earned coins on it.</DIV> <DIV>2) Restore gaining new spells at intervals during the grind.  I for one greatly liked gaining new spells at 40.6 or so.  Felt like a bathroom break during an 8 hour drive heh.</DIV> <DIV>3) Add new traits for 50+.  I for one would like to see +4 Wisdom and whatnot.  I would REALLY like to see Cyclops, Djinn, and Naga Mastery Abilities (ok debuffs, but how likely are Templars gonna see 8-900 damage nukes).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just my 2cp.</DIV>

[AzraelAzgard]

Please include the info on Divine Arbitration, this is supposed to be our top special spell yet not many Templars use it because it often sends people to random hp's rather than balancing the %'s, it doesnt get better and have a reduced penalty with improved quality. And its revcast time is insane, 15 minutes !

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote>Kendricke wrote: <p>Since I personally have no real issue with Fury DPS being higher than other priests, I'm only able to compile suggestions I see.  For what it's worth, I do agree with you though that we, as a whole, tend to concentrate far too much on Furies as the focal point.  At this point, the only comparisons I'm seeing on DPS are "Templars vs. Furies".  I never hear of a Templar against Defiler or Mystic debate.  I almost never hear Inquisitors used as a comparison.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>So since developing countries are equally poor, they should not be compared to industrial countries and everything is perfect in those countries since there are others who are equally poor? You really are a funny person.</span><div></div>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>AzraelAzgard wrote:<p><span><font color="#66ffff">Third Not Urgent/Not Important: these are things that you feel are being worked on but don’t really matter to you.</font></span></p> <p><span>Templar DPS, your probably looking at changing it because lots of whiners on the forums say its low, its not low if you fight the right things i.e. undead, but the whiners want dps like Furies, sigh who chooses a priest for dps, we can solo it takes longer but what do you expect imo. This is the least serious issue for Templars.</span></p><hr></blockquote>This is actually the most important since it is the thing that has made templars quit playing. Yes, that is right. Everything else is minor adjustment and we can heal groups well enough even if they were never fixed. But more templars will quit if something is not done to templars soloability.</span><div></div>

[adaman]

<P><FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>BUG:</STRONG></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Weakness (L9 spell)</FONT> - This power has the same reuse time than Sign of weakness/Infirmity spell. No sense.</P> <P>Also, we get no upgrade for this STR debuff. (-15 STR as adept III...)</P> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#33cc00><STRONG>Suggestions/ wishes:</STRONG></FONT></P> <P>- <FONT color=#ffff00>Vigilant Benediction</FONT> Line need to have a small + mitigation bonus, as before LU15. This will improve both our group effectivity than our solo. IMHO, Idem for Intercession line spells, mark of king line. I prefer to return to a lesser % of activation but some more effects.</P> <P>- <FONT color=#ffff00>Resolve/Ardent Resolve</FONT>: Really too power cost much and too long recast. It's not usefull... It need to be on a shorter recast time and much less power cost.</P> <P>- <FONT color=#ffff00>A +WIS <STRONG>group</STRONG> buff</FONT>? We are battle priest and we get only a single target buff (praetorate/protectorate) that can only be maintened 1 at time. It seem a little strange for me...</P> <P>- More Shields choice - already told and /agree, It can be useful to have also round/kite shield to increase our solo capability.</P> <P> </P> <P>In true, I dont like to have more dps power. Yes, I dont care. I have choice to be an healer, not a fighter. I Like to heal, not to nuke mobs. I prefer more debuffs / utility that can make me precious in a group than a good parser position <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[AzraelAzgard]

<DIV>If having low DPS is making the idiot Templars quit playing then good, who chooses the least offensive Priest expecting to have decent dps?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The less there are of people like this the better, we are defensive healers, we are not meant to be soloing anything at a fast rate with high dps. Allthough if you pick your targets properly you can be nuking for 1k+ when consecrated strike hits for 500+ double.</DIV>

[Timaarit]

<P>**REMOVED INAPPROPRIATE COMMENTS**</P><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>11-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:48 AM</span>

[Meribor]

<div></div><span><span><blockquote><hr>AzraelAzgard wrote:<div>If having low DPS is making the idiot Templars quit playing then good, who chooses the least offensive Priest expecting to have decent dps?</div><div> </div><div>The less there are of people like this the better, we are defensive healers, we are not meant to be soloing anything at a fast rate with high dps. Allthough if you pick your targets properly you can be nuking for 1k+ when consecrated strike hits for 500+ double.</div><hr></blockquote></span></span><p>When I first started playing EQ2 last July, I decided I wanted to try a healing class first instead of going with my usual choice of caster class.<span>  </span>I had a cleric alt in EQ1 and enjoyed her, so I decided to try templar.<span>  </span>Guess what?<span>  </span>I loved playing her.</p><p>While I did not expect to be able to solo as well as other classes, I was delighted to find that I could solo with my templar and had a wonderful time doing it while I had a LFG tag up or didn’t have time to commit to a group.<span>  </span>I never expected to be able to solo with my templar especially once I got closer to level 50, but I expected to be able to group with my guildmates at that point and play my alts when I wanted to solo.<span>  </span>So, she became my main. Then along comes LU #13 … after that, I finished up some quests that I was close to completing and dinged 31 doing it. <span> </span>The ridiculous number of interrupts I experienced followed closely by having way too many fizzles are the main reasons LU #13 took all the fun out of playing my templar for me.<span>  </span><span></span>Other factors played a part, of course … like having to rely on pickup groups more because I’m in a small guild with mostly higher level players since I came to the game later.<span>  </span>I hated to bother them by asking them to help me with my quests most of the time now instead of just some of the time.<span>  </span>So I quit playing her.<span>  </span>Does that make me an idiot?</p><p>If I had started playing after the revamp, then I probably would have either gone with a fury as my healer or just stuck to my usual choice of playing a caster.  I went to the dark side and I'm playing a necromancer now and having fun again.</p><p>For me, it’s not the low dps that bothers me as much as the inability to cast somewhat consistently plus the time it took me to kill a mob (if I didn’t have to run or get killed because of all the interrupts) seemed to noticeably increase .  Though I wouldn't object to something that would increase templar dps in a minor way, the interrupts need to be calmed down considerably and become a minor irritant not the major irritant that they are now.</p><p>As for choosing the 'proper' things to fight, how many of the supposedly solo quests involve undead?<span></span></p><span></span><div></div>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AzraelAzgard wrote:<BR>Please include the info on Divine Arbitration, this is supposed to be our top special spell yet not many Templars use it because it often sends people to random hp's rather than balancing the %'s, it doesnt get better and have a reduced penalty with improved quality. And its revcast time is insane, 15 minutes ! <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Added

[Kendricke]

<P>Adaman,</P> <P> Added several of your suggestions in various forms.</P> <P> </P> <P>Meribor,</P> <P> I've tried to cover these general concerns in Bug 1 (Mitigation) and Issue 1 (Priest DPS).  I'm adding an issue specifically for undead.</P> <P> </P>

[zorbdan]

<P>Keep up the good work kendricke, I want to add something about buffs .... Our buffs being a utility and us lacking in utility, could we get some improvments to our buffs ? I guess this would be a wish list item I don't know ... re-word it if you want, change it if you want but what I am saying is we would like better buffs one way or another. I hear our buffs are not as desirable as other priests buffs is why I say this. </P> <P> </P> <P>Also we have many buffs that take concentration, so we are forced to drop certain buffs in place of other buffs, a for instance would be the redoubt line and glory of combat  we have to choose between hps buffs or heal proc or drop valor line or symbol line. Basically I don't have enough concentration to use all my buffs. </P> <p>Message Edited by zorbdan on <span class=date_text>11-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:28 AM</span>

[Viane]

I would like to see something done with the harmony line.  I seem to be generating a great deal of aggro now, as every add instantly aggros me and if the tank loses aggro, about half of the time it is to me.  However, I dare not cast my aggro reducer in fear of bringing the entire zone down on my group.  It would be nice to generate a bit less aggro or have a better way of reducing it.  Also, it would be nice if soothe was unresistable.  I use it when i harvest and I cant tell you how many times I cast, have it take, only to have the mob walk 3 steps then turn around and attack me. 

[Xerxess]

<P>lets sticky this thead.</P> <P> </P> <P>Can we get a Dev to sticky this...or yall busy in SWG? :smileyhappy:</P>

[adaman]

<P>Other 2 idea:</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Harmony spells line</FONT> - before Lu15 we was able to cast both Placate and Harmony (similar spell but not on same reuse timer), and we had our great Resolve (decrease hate every time we get hitted, for 3 times).</P> <P>Now we have only 1 Harmony spell line, I see that his power has been increased, but often this is not enought to remove aggro from us when fighting group mobs or when our tank die and we need to be not interrupted to res him. And we have only this power to decrease aggro. I dunno if all the priest class now have only 1 power as us, but... I miss so much our old resolve...</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Stun spells line</FONT> (Prostate / Force Submission) - Uhm... no one talk about this? Is this spell useful? or I'm the only who has not it on the hotbars? 150 power cost for only 7 seconds stun...  Am I missing something or this spell need some changes?</P> <P><FONT size=1>(btw, Force Submission (L53 templar power) has similar name of a L20 inquis spell (Forced Submission) - maybe this can generate little confusion sometimes)</FONT></P><p>Message Edited by adaman on <span class=date_text>11-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:11 PM</span>

[KingOfF00LS]

<span><blockquote><hr>adaman wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p><font color="#ffff00">Stun spells line</font> (Prostate / Force Submission) - Uhm... no one talk about this? Is this spell useful? or I'm the only who has not it on the hotbars? 150 power cost for only 7 seconds stun...  Am I missing something or this spell need some changes?</p> <p><font size="1">(btw, Force Submission (L53 templar power) has similar name of a L20 inquis spell (Forced Submission) - maybe this can generate little confusion sometimes)</font></p><p>Message Edited by adaman on <span class="date_text">11-18-2005</span> <span class="time_text">05:11 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I asked about this a couple days ago and got no response so I assumed I must've been dreaming it, but.....I could've sworn that when I upgraded my Prostrate from App I to Adept 1 nothing on the spell actually changed.  Anyone? </span><div></div>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KingOfF00LS wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> adaman wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Stun spells line</FONT> (Prostate / Force Submission) - Uhm... no one talk about this? Is this spell useful? or I'm the only who has not it on the hotbars? 150 power cost for only 7 seconds stun...  Am I missing something or this spell need some changes?</P> <P><FONT size=1>(btw, Force Submission (L53 templar power) has similar name of a L20 inquis spell (Forced Submission) - maybe this can generate little confusion sometimes)</FONT></P> <P>Message Edited by adaman on <SPAN class=date_text>11-18-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>05:11 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I asked about this a couple days ago and got no response so I assumed I must've been dreaming it, but.....I could've sworn that when I upgraded my Prostrate from App I to Adept 1 nothing on the spell actually changed.  Anyone?<BR><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Trying to confirm within my guild.  I have a link to Adept I...but can't find anyone with just Apprentice I, II, III, or even IV. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[icecreamso]

<P>Some opinions here just reminded me why I quit my cleric after level 50 in EQI.  I, and a lot of other people, are not big fans of raids.  For some reason that I don't recall, I was lead to believe that all classes in EQII would be viable for the casual player.  Had I known that the end game for Templars would be limited to either raids, or adventuring at 5-10 levels below my current, I would have picked a different class.  Soloing with a Templar is viable, but it is torturously slow just to kill low level solo mobs.  If you only play to raid, then Templars seem to work pretty well.  If Templars are supposed to be enjoyable for casual players, then I feel they seriously are lacking, and need more than just a few tweeks to the level 50+ spell as is typically discussed in these threads.  DPS may not be an issue to the hardcore raiders, but it is for the other half of the Templar population.</P>

[zorbdan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KingOfF00LS wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> adaman wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Stun spells line</FONT> (Prostate / Force Submission) - Uhm... no one talk about this? Is this spell useful? or I'm the only who has not it on the hotbars? 150 power cost for only 7 seconds stun...  Am I missing something or this spell need some changes?</P> <P><FONT size=1>(btw, Force Submission (L53 templar power) has similar name of a L20 inquis spell (Forced Submission) - maybe this can generate little confusion sometimes)</FONT></P> <P>Message Edited by adaman on <SPAN class=date_text>11-18-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>05:11 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I asked about this a couple days ago and got no response so I assumed I must've been dreaming it, but.....I could've sworn that when I upgraded my Prostrate from App I to Adept 1 nothing on the spell actually changed.  Anyone?<BR><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Trying to confirm within my guild.  I have a link to Adept I...but can't find anyone with just Apprentice I, II, III, or even IV. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The spell descriptions are the same. Whether the spells function differently is up for debate I guess. I have an app IV version.

[Wossname]

I think my main issues are (and I know most are listed in the OP but I'm adding my 'vote' on them as it were): 1. Penalties paid that are no longer relevant but are still applied. Heavy armour (means nothing anyway), low power pool, low HP and pathetic DPS used to be our trade off for better healing. We no longer have the advantage so let's lose the penalties. Taking into account the damage taken in the interruption probability would help a tiny bit. 2. Wooden dinner plate on my arm, huge set of plate armour on the rest of me.... 3. Praetorate is single target, the wizard equivalent (Seal) is group-wide, as is the Shaman one (forget the name). Group-wide buff please. 4. 3s cast on a 4s stun? Prostrate seems whacked to me. All stun spells irrespective of class should cast in 1s. 5. Wisdom should affect heals. Intelligence (primary for mage) affects spell damage, Strength (primary for fighter) affects melee damage. Let's have some parity here, make our primary stat affect our primary function. I disagree with Kendricke plenty but this is a good thread, let's keep it to the issue of Templar problems and leave personality clashes to other threads <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[OlaeviaTraisharan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wossname wrote:<BR>I think my main issues are (and I know most are listed in the OP but I'm adding my 'vote' on them as it were):<BR><BR>4. 3s cast on a 4s stun? Prostrate seems whacked to me. All stun spells irrespective of class should cast in 1s.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>4s stun? I looked at mine and it was 6.7 second duration at App 1... <BR>

[zorbdan]

This may be one of those spells that scales with level now but it still has different spell strengths, I think they really screwed up a bunch of spells like this. You would think they would know which spells they changed to scale by level and remove the app1-master2 progression.   

[maxxxt]

<DIV> <P>Thank you for the well written post, you bring up most issues that I am concerned with.</P> <P> </P> <P>Suggestion:  Offensive and defensive buffs using concentration slot ..adding focus, parry , avoidance, dps...something. </P> <P>Currently we have no parry, frequent  interrupts, I still fizzle very often in combat on all my heals and cures(post LU16), all my skills are maxed (I'm lvl 60).  We need further attention from the Dev's.  Fizzles were not reduced very much at all, and why would we fizzle on all beneficial spells anyway, we are expert healers by lvl 60, heals casted 1000's of times..lol.  </P> <P>Interrupts all the time on our heals when fighting more than 1 mob ( Dev's remember Templar heals take up to 5 seconds to cast) and I typically get interrupted at the 4.9 sec mark. </P> <P>Dps is notably low, lowest dps of all classes, absolutely painful and slow soloing, multiple green mobs kill me..lol. </P> <P>The dev's fixed some classes and I know player classes that are happy, but we need a very careful boost in these areas.</P></DIV>

[Jida]

<DIV>Forced submission does not upgrade with adept III.. NOTHING is differnt betweeen adept I and adept III.</DIV> <DIV><BR>Elder</DIV>

[Wossname]

<span><blockquote><hr>OlaeviaTraisharan wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Wossname wrote:I think my main issues are (and I know most are listed in the OP but I'm adding my 'vote' on them as it were):4. 3s cast on a 4s stun? Prostrate seems whacked to me. All stun spells irrespective of class should cast in 1s. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>4s stun? I looked at mine and it was 6.7 second duration at App 1... <hr></blockquote> You are correct with 6.7s. I didn't have EQ2 running at the time and I remembered the duration incorrectly. My point about the cast time remains valid.</span><div></div>

[AzraelAzgard]

<DIV>Small typo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sanctuary not Salvation in the Wrath section.</DIV>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OlaeviaTraisharan wrote:<BR> <DIV>Did anyone ever stop to think that the reason we have less DPS than a Fury is because we wear plate armor?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I thought they got swords/spears because of our armor.

[Xerxess]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OlaeviaTraisharan wrote:<BR> <DIV>Did anyone ever stop to think that the reason we have less DPS than a Fury is because we wear plate armor?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I thought they got swords/spears because of our armor. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>lol We still die as fast as a fury. Just because Templars wear plate doesn't mean we can tank like guardians =P

[quetzaqotl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OlaeviaTraisharan wrote:<BR> <DIV>Did anyone ever stop to think that the reason we have less DPS than a Fury is because we wear plate armor?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I thought they got swords/spears because of our armor. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>When will you get it in your thick skull cow druids can only use 1h swords and theres only 1 fabled sowrd Id take over my prismatic in game so that balances nothing, the plus clerics have over other classes is that they can wear everything they want.</P> <P>Also I think its strange that on the templar issues thread you refer all the time to furies, we are completely different class our focus is on dmg and your focus should be on def. warden and fury dps is almost equal so i dont think its that fair to always aim at us also the person who said furies do 500 dps in your typical griup is lying yes I might squeeze that out when a group is taking out a big group green/light blue mobs but my dps solo is around 240-50 dps and in group its situational some fights in poetrs my dps is lik 80 or so or 260 or whatever its really situational.</P> <P>Also the statement heal like templars nuke like wizards is very false wizard outdmg us by faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar we dont heal as well as templars (wardens heal a ton better than furies too in pure heal nrs).</P> <P>And for every offensive buff furies have you get a def one.</P> <P>Again reacting to some pointless thread its cool that you guys are busy collecting data on what is not working that great atm, maybe some time in the future you can do it w/o pulling another class in (again all threads in the templar boards have the word fury in them so you might understand why some furies are getting a bit sick of this all) and base your broken spell info on a little more than just second hand info.</P> <P>Gl on making a list tho as that is nice.</P>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> quetzaqotl wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OlaeviaTraisharan wrote:<BR> <DIV>Did anyone ever stop to think that the reason we have less DPS than a Fury is because we wear plate armor?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I thought they got swords/spears because of our armor. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>When will you get it in your thick skull cow druids can only use 1h swords and theres only 1 fabled sowrd Id take over my prismatic in game so that balances nothing, the plus clerics have over other classes is that they can wear everything they want.</P> <P>Also I think its strange that on the templar issues thread you refer all the time to furies, we are completely different class our focus is on dmg and your focus should be on def. warden and fury dps is almost equal so i dont think its that fair to always aim at us also the person who said furies do 500 dps in your typical griup is lying yes I might squeeze that out when a group is taking out a big group green/light blue mobs but my dps solo is around 240-50 dps and in group its situational some fights in poetrs my dps is lik 80 or so or 260 or whatever its really situational.</P> <P>Also the statement heal like templars nuke like wizards is very false wizard outdmg us by faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar we dont heal as well as templars (wardens heal a ton better than furies too in pure heal nrs).</P> <P>And for every offensive buff furies have you get a def one.</P> <P>Again reacting to some pointless thread its cool that you guys are busy collecting data on what is not working that great atm, maybe some time in the future you can do it w/o pulling another class in (again all threads in the templar boards have the word fury in them so you might understand why some furies are getting a bit sick of this all) and base your broken spell info on a little more than just second hand info.</P> <P>Gl on making a list tho as that is nice.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The reason everybody compares to Furies is because they heal better on raids (end game) they solo better, and my now level 27 fury out damages my level 56 Templar. You see 6 months ago, when you all were comparing yourselves to Templars and saying, I wish I could heal as well as them, it was acceptable, why because Templars were the standard, (where everybody should have been at more or less) but now that Templars went from First to worst in playability and Furies went from Worst to First, you dont want anybody mentioning your class. You cant have it both ways and you wont as long as I am here.

[Shennr]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>quetzaqotl wrote:</DIV> <DIV> <P>Also I think its strange that on the templar issues thread you refer all the time to furies, we are completely different class our focus is on dmg and your focus should be on def. warden and fury dps is almost equal so i dont think its that fair to always aim at us also the person who said furies do 500 dps in your typical griup is lying yes I might squeeze that out when a group is taking out a big group green/light blue mobs but my dps solo is around 240-50 dps and in group its situational some fights in poetrs my dps is lik 80 or so or 260 or whatever its really situational.</P> <P>Also the statement heal like templars nuke like wizards is very false wizard outdmg us by faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar we dont heal as well as templars (wardens heal a ton better than furies too in pure heal nrs).</P> <P></P> <HR> <P>So now your trying to get the focus onto the Wardens, eh?  A correct assumption would be that out of the healer Archtype the Wardens dps is almost equal to the fury dps in regards to the other priest classes. I would say that I know how to play my class with maximum effeciency for dps and a fury can out dps me on a ratio of 3:2.  Whether that encounter be an AE fast pace encounter or a single target ^^^ encounter.</P> <P>Also for healing, If you only count the heals pre lvl 52 then you are correct that a Warden can heal more with Arch Heal, Heal, and HoT. After that it is a whole new ball park for the fury's.  But I guess one may say that we trade that for our power effeciency on the Warden Heals that totally gets zapped with many in encounter power consuming spells.</P> <P>What the Templars are doing and that I agree with is showing a void that they have in their class.  The only reason they are comparing to the Fury class is because by comparison it is factual that a Fury's total line up of spells is more beneficial to a group/raid then a Templars. Minus a few templars who just want to either nerf the fury's, become god healers again, or become fury's. There is a need for comparison and something does need to be done with it.  I would not agree that they should get the same dps as furys or become godlike healers again but rather add additional utility to their spells that would make them well desired for raids and groups. Make their debuff very much needed for raids and helpful for groups. Increase their dps some. Give them that niche in this game that will fill up their roll.</P> <P> </P></DIV>

[quetzaqotl]

<P>Just saying there are more than 2 healer classes so yes templars should also compare themselves to wardens or mystics or defilers or inquisitors.</P> <P>Also on wardens doing less dmg to a single target than furies I dont believe that I think wardens are at least equal against single target but that a different story.</P> <P>Also a templar has more beneficial spells for a group than a fury weve got some beneficial spells for a group but if you want your group to have more defensive power a templar can bring that much more a fury could we got porcupine yes thats nice one of our only def spells btw.</P> <P>But I guess it must be nice when one class takes all the heat while others stand back in the shade, btw I never said i wanted to heal like a templar or anything when furies were (semi) broken and wouldve liked it even more if we wouldve gotten better group dps buffing but that wasnt delivered.</P> <P>Furies have 1 single target incr dps buff and 1 group buff which procs like 140 dmg x3 for all melee with a high powercost and 1 singlew target dmg shield which is really nice and thats as far as our offensive group buffing goes (so for soloing we can stack all those single target buffs on ourselves but in a group setting it isnt that hot) and of course we buff int whereas others buff much more wis or hp.</P> <P>It would be refreshing to see templars comparing themselves with other classes for a change, if any change to the templars I would think upping their def buffing/heals would be the answer as most templars (at least the ones I know) chose a templar to be a pure healer (heard that loads of times) somethings gott give right? so you wont be  such great soloers templars still heal better than furies then why dont you concetrate on getting your heals or some buffs upped if you think thats wrong?</P> <P>But no concentrate on dps.</P>

[AzraelAzgard]

<DIV>They heal better end game on raids?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well maybe they heal better than you "end game" on raids Cow.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But Ive never been outhealed by a druid on a raid so far.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Out of interest, what raids do you do that are end game for you?</DIV>

[Cowdenic]

<P>Darathar, VOV, Tier 6 contested, tier 6 spawnable in MajDul. Lock jaw, etc. etc. etc.</P> <P>Point is, when you fight any mob, with any type of AE Damage, or any type of raid wide damage, If your druids are not out healing you, especially Furies, then they dont know what they are doing. </P> <P>I guess my whole point is this, They DPS better, they heal alot better (sometimes) they solo better, and their wanted for small groups over Templars. What do Templars have? Thats right, a slightly bigger Direct heal on a longer cast timer. WOOT.</P>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jida wrote:<BR> <DIV>Forced submission does not upgrade with adept III.. NOTHING is differnt betweeen adept I and adept III.</DIV> <DIV><BR>Elder</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Added as bug.  Also, fixed typo in Bugs section where I listed Salvation instead of Sanctuary.</P>

[Silverfrost]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote: <P align=left><SPAN></SPAN><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>Combat resurrections require additional attention</FONT></STRONG><BR>A Templar can cast a combat resurrection on a target, but has to stay in range (1 meter) till the target actually clicks yes.  During a group or raiding situation, this can be incredibly frustrating when the Templar's also trying to assist with healing.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Fixed in LU 17.  Range check when the target confirms has been adjusted to 15 meters or double the spell range, whichever is greater.<BR>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Silverfrost wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote: <P align=left><SPAN></SPAN><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>Combat resurrections require additional attention</FONT></STRONG><BR>A Templar can cast a combat resurrection on a target, but has to stay in range (1 meter) till the target actually clicks yes.  During a group or raiding situation, this can be incredibly frustrating when the Templar's also trying to assist with healing.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Fixed in LU 17.  Range check when the target confirms has been adjusted to 15 meters or double the spell range, whichever is greater.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Silver Frost, </P> <P>I would like to personally welcome you to what us Templars lovingly refer to as The Vipers Nest. Thank you for your response. Curious if you had any comment on any of the other issues. Thank you for your time, and Welcome to the Templar forums.</P>

[Silverfrost]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote: <P>Silver Frost, </P> <P>I would like to personally welcome you to what us Templars lovingly refer to as The Vipers Nest. Thank you for your response. Curious if you had any comment on any of the other issues. Thank you for your time, and Welcome to the Templar forums.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I did take a look at this issue as well, since it appears to be a bug:</P> <P><SPAN><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>Atoning Fate does not always work</FONT></STRONG><BR>Does not proc the group heal upon mobs death if the mob is killed by a proc of any kind, on a weapon from the weapon or a buff etc.</SPAN><BR></P> <P>I can see why this may be happening, but haven't been able to get to the bottom of it yet.  I'm hoping to resolve it tomorrow.</P>

[Kayle]

<P>Well I guess the rumors were false, because he proved brave enough to come into the 'Viper's Nest'.  :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>Thanks Silverfox!  Keep the changes coming, please!</P>

[Wossname]

Thanks for dropping in Silverfrost, it means a lot to know that you guys are looking at our issues <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[OlaeviaTraisharan]

By nature, programmers are anti-social, so it doesn't surprise me that he doesn't peek out of his cave often if at all <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Nindor2]

The Atoning fate is probably closely liked to the issue that mobs don't fall to the ground when dieing to the same things like weapon proc, damage shield, Dot proc etc. The same thing works for players btw, you get standing corpses at times. <div></div>

[AzraelAzgard]

<DIV>Aggro loss spells cast on a mob you havent aggro'd will aggro it still, it was an issue before when our aggro loss was a self heal and an AE aggro loss but now its an aggro loss and it stuns the mobs around its not so much of an issue as the stun will aggro them ofc anyway but aslong as someone else has 1 aggro the minus 2k hate effect should put you bottom <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Could still be an issue for any classes with pure AE aggro loss spells though and them hitting and aggroing things that weren't attacking you before.</DIV>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AzraelAzgard wrote:<BR> <DIV>Aggro loss spells cast on a mob you havent aggro'd will aggro it still, it was an issue before when our aggro loss was a self heal and an AE aggro loss but now its an aggro loss and it stuns the mobs around its not so much of an issue as the stun will aggro them ofc anyway but aslong as someone else has 1 aggro the minus 2k hate effect should put you bottom <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Could still be an issue for any classes with pure AE aggro loss spells though and them hitting and aggroing things that weren't attacking you before.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I thought I had this listed.  Do I need to reword?</P> <P> </P>

[Stjarna Kvar]

One of the things missing from the Cleric Archetype in EQ2 is the Turn/Dominate Undead ability of D&D. I know EQ2 is not D&D, but the ability is based historically in fantasy novels, games, and movies. Templar Turn UndeadAdding the ability for a Templar to cast an AE Fear undead spell that effectively sent them into the corner for a long duration and whiped the undead's memories would be an effective tool that would make Templars desirable when trying to move through an undead dungeon.Inquisitor Dominate UndeadAdding the ability for an Inquisitor to cast an AE Fear undead spell that effectively root the mobs in fear would be an effective tool to make Inquisitors desireable when trying to move through an undead dungeon.Or something of the sort. Make the duration useful, so that the Cleric could cast it and the group move through. Heck, even make it a self buff that allows the cleric's group to walk unhindered through all mobs that didn't resist, reducing aggro. Could be really fun for the devs to play with the possiblities.

[KingOfF00LS]

<span><blockquote><hr>Silverfrost wrote<p><span><strong><font color="#ffff00">Atoning Fate does not always work</font></strong>Does not proc the group heal upon mobs death if the mob is killed by a proc of any kind, on a weapon from the weapon or a buff etc.</span></p> <p>I can see why this may be happening, but haven't been able to get to the bottom of it yet.  I'm hoping to resolve it tomorrow.</p><hr></blockquote>Awesome.  I get that one a lot so finding a fix to it would be great for me!</span><div></div>

[zorbdan]

<DIV>Any improvements to buffs would be great. I like the previously posted ideas for improving buffs. A damage proc added to one of our buffs would be great.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Currently there is a situation with Glory of Combat competing with Redoubt. Both these buffs take 1 conc slot  and can be cast on as many people as you have concentration for. We basically have 3 slots for these 2 buffs to be cast on 6 people. It would take 12 concentration slots to cast these 2 spells on everyone in your group in addition to that we have 2 group buffs that take 1 slot, so the 2 group buffs leave us with 3 slots.Only 3 group members can recieve one of these buffs ?! I would like to be able to put redoubt on everyone and GoC on the melee classes but what ends up happening is no one gets redoubt it usually goes totally unused in place of GoC depending on how many melee classes you have in your group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe adding a damage shield/damage proc to the Redoubt line would give us something for solo/situational use and make it a worthwhile spell again to compete with the mighty GoC. </DIV> <p>Message Edited by zorbdan on <span class=date_text>11-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:28 AM</span>

[LostAgain]

Concerning the Unyielding/Vigilant Benediction line, I seem to remember some discussion of these spells a while back, but is there currently any way to tell when this spell is absorbing an attack?  I've even checked my logs and I can't find anything indicating thats its firing off.  I'm just not sure if I'm missing something or the spell just isn't giving any feedback when it fires off or if its just not working. <div></div>

[Simon Snowlock]

I have a Templar as an alt. She was level 20  before the DoF update. She was the first one I played after the update. It took me a little bit to get the knack of the new style and I had to use spells that I never had touched before, but I gained nearly 3 levels without too much effort solo. I almost always solo and don't understand what all the complaining is about. I also have a Fury, a Wizard, an Enchanter, a Dirge, a Swashbuckler, a Monk, a Paladin, and a Beserker. I play them all solo so I know what it's like being by myself with all these different classes and I don't have anything to complain about with my Templar. I don't group a lot, but if my guild needs a healer then I'd pick my Templar. I think reactive heals are the best kind. A reactive heal has x number of heals it does. On a group RH it keeps the same number of heals overall and puts them where needed. That means that as long as the MT is the only one being hit then he's the only one being healed but it also can heal the others if they happen to get hit. With HoTs it's wasting healing energy on the people in the group who aren't being hit. Also, if the MT is being attacked by six mobs and the HoT is only going to heal him x amount every 4 seconds while the RH heals him the same x amount everytime he gets hit, the RH is more likely to keep him alive. You can get hit a lot in 4 seconds.

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LostAgain wrote:<BR>Concerning the Unyielding/Vigilant Benediction line, I seem to remember some discussion of these spells a while back, but is there currently any way to tell when this spell is absorbing an attack?  I've even checked my logs and I can't find anything indicating thats its firing off.  I'm just not sure if I'm missing something or the spell just isn't giving any feedback when it fires off or if its just not working.<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm going to add this to wishlist as a desire for better log/parse tools.  I want to KNOW when one of my buffs fires off; and who the buff was on.  Currently, logs aren't showing this accurately enough...or it's too situational based on range or need (i.e. some spells won't show in log if no healing was performed...yet I'll see the spell effect fire off).

[Silverfrost]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Silverfrost wrote:<BR><BR> <P>I did take a look at this issue as well, since it appears to be a bug:</P> <P><SPAN><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>Atoning Fate does not always work</FONT></STRONG><BR>Does not proc the group heal upon mobs death if the mob is killed by a proc of any kind, on a weapon from the weapon or a buff etc.</SPAN><BR></P> <P>I can see why this may be happening, but haven't been able to get to the bottom of it yet.  I'm hoping to resolve it tomorrow.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Got this fixed in time for Live Update 17.  There was a general problem with spells that triggered on death and cast an effect back on the player who was responsible for the kill, if the death was by proc this tripped some code that was watching for proc recursion.  All instances of that across all spells should now be fixed.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Silverfrost on <span class=date_text>11-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:07 PM</span>

[Kayle]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LostAgain wrote:<BR>Concerning the Unyielding/Vigilant Benediction line, I seem to remember some discussion of these spells a while back, but is there currently any way to tell when this spell is absorbing an attack?  I've even checked my logs and I can't find anything indicating thats its firing off.  I'm just not sure if I'm missing something or the spell just isn't giving any feedback when it fires off or if its just not working.<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm going to add this to wishlist as a desire for better log/parse tools.  I want to KNOW when one of my buffs fires off; and who the buff was on.  Currently, logs aren't showing this accurately enough...or it's too situational based on range or need (i.e. some spells won't show in log if no healing was performed...yet I'll see the spell effect fire off).<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Combatstats log parser shows the reactive heals coming from the person, not you.  Therefore, you need to configure the parser to include your targeted ally in the line up of people you are parsing.  Total hit points healed and all the people in your group or people you are casting on in a raid, should do it.</DIV>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kaylena wrote:<BR> <DIV>Combatstats log parser shows the reactive heals coming from the person, not you.  Therefore, you need to configure the parser to include your targeted ally in the line up of people you are parsing.  Total hit points healed and all the people in your group or people you are casting on in a raid, should do it.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>That I do know.  I'm able to pull my heals and reactives without a problem.<BR><BR>The issue comes up with Involuntary Healer or Glory of Combat or similar spells?  How does it work when your target rushes out of range of your log messages?  This is what I'm currently trying to push as a suggestion.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Notrevice]

<DIV>I have no idea where to post this little thought so I thought I would try here.</DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://www.wargrendel.net/~mdicicco/skills/Convert.jpg"> <<this little spell here makes the Inquistors heals much more potent then ours. Changing this heal(arch heal) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://www.wargrendel.net/~mdicicco/skills/FanaticalHealing.jpg"> to about 1365-1624 for 310power.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Which is compared too our Grand Restoration-308 power heals for 1399-1709 recast 11.5 casting 3.0(adept 3). So really they can heal with a faster recast for about the same heal potency and the same power cost as our Grand Restoration(and all other heals).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Also the spell convert will go off with reactives and the such as well, which may lead to very high power cost, but with this spell</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <IMG src="http://www.wargrendel.net/~mdicicco/skills/ChillingInquest.jpg"> which on the right person can make the power cost seem minimal.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess my wish/want is Reverence or Divine Arbitration to have a much better scale process and use, or the spells to be revamped all together. A certain flavor or increase in potency to our heals could also be used in the place of the DA or Reverence change I wished for. A increase to the Max range for Glory of Combat would also be within reason(Seems to me the Grp AE heal is only 10m /shrug).</DIV> <DIV>Last the Sign of... line could be more useful by being a AOE pacify and maybe hit epics</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry if this was confusing and Thanks for you're time!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Notrevice on <span class=date_text>11-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:36 AM</span>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Notrevice wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>I guess my wish/want is Reverence or Divine Arbitration to have a much better scale process and use, or the spells to be revamped all together. A certain flavor or increase in potency to our heals could also be used in the place of the DA or Reverence change I wished for. A increase to the Max range for Glory of Combat would also be within reason(Seems to me the Grp AE heal is only 10m /shrug).</DIV> <DIV>Last the Sign of... line could be more useful by being a AOE pacify and maybe hit epics</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry if this was confusing and Thanks for you're time!</DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I read through this a few times now and I'm still trying to figure out what you'd like added to the list.  Is there something that I'm not listing yet?</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Chog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Notrevice wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>I guess my wish/want is Reverence or Divine Arbitration to have a much better scale process and use, or the spells to be revamped all together. A certain flavor or increase in potency to our heals could also be used in the place of the DA or Reverence change I wished for. A increase to the Max range for Glory of Combat would also be within reason(Seems to me the Grp AE heal is only 10m /shrug).</DIV> <DIV>Last the Sign of... line could be more useful by being a AOE pacify and maybe hit epics</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry if this was confusing and Thanks for you're time!</DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I read through this a few times now and I'm still trying to figure out what you'd like added to the list.  Is there something that I'm not listing yet?</P> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>From the pictures, it sounds like he wants to be an Inquisitor :smileyvery-happy:<BR>

[Quijonsith]

<div></div>First of all, great job on this list.  Very well presented.  Second, I have an idea/suggestion/comment.  Why was our ability to debuff magic, mental, and divine mitigation changed to debuffing only divine?  We cast that debuff and we're only increasing the damage of priests (who aren't normally doing that much damage in groups) and crusaders.  I'd like to see the debuffing of magic, mental, and divine mitigation returned. Edit: changed "all magical" to "magic, mental, and divine" as the prior was misleading and inaccurate. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Quijonsith on <span class=date_text>11-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:37 PM</span>

[Quijonsith]

Suggestion #2: I'd like to see this thread get a sticky <div></div>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Quijonsith wrote:<BR> First of all, great job on this list.  Very well presented.  Second, I have an idea/suggestion/comment.  Why was our ability to debuff magic, mental, and divine mitigation changed to debuffing only divine?  We cast that debuff and we're only increasing the damage of priests (who aren't normally doing that much damage in groups) and crusaders.  I'd like to see the debuffing of magic, mental, and divine mitigation returned.<BR><BR>Edit: changed "all magical" to "magic, mental, and divine" as the prior was misleading and inaccurate.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Added this as a suggestion.  Keep them coming. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>NOTE:  I'll be updating the format of this list, as well as adding a few graphical elements that will hopefully increase viewability and usability.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[KingOfF00LS]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kaylena wrote: <div>Combatstats log parser shows the reactive heals coming from the person, not you.  Therefore, you need to configure the parser to include your targeted ally in the line up of people you are parsing.  Total hit points healed and all the people in your group or people you are casting on in a raid, should do it.</div><hr></blockquote>Combatstats doesn't even exist anymore from what I can tell.  A couple people were all gung-ho about parsing so I asked for the parser and it's not even available anymore.  Kinda hard to parse without a parser lol. </span><div></div>

[Kendricke]

<DIV>Updated issues section with an indirect suggestion from Anduri.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Melfius]

<P>First, a bug:</P> <P>Mark of Pawns does not draw aggro.  Mark of Princes does.  Which should it be?  I was kinda happy being able to cast Mark of Pawns, then get my Disgrace off to initiate the combat.  I though Mark of Princes would be the same.  One death later and I know different! :smileysad:</P> <P> </P> <P>Next, a suggestion:</P> <P>Repeating the Hammer Pet argument, wouldn't it be possible to make this spell unusable in a group situation?  Spell ends if grouped?  It would make our lives that much easier...</P>

[Quijonsith]

Heck Wardens get to summon a pack of wolf to take hits and deal damage for them while they sit back interrupt free, not to mention they have roots and as far as I know their pet can be used in battle. <div></div>

[Unmask]

Warden dogs are nice but limited.  They die quite easily and stop after their target is dead.  We have roots but no real debuffs or stuns/stifles (sandstorm can proc stuns but won't work on epics), etc. <div></div>

[Kendricke]

Update bugs section.

[Kendricke]

<P>Fixes from Live Update 17 noted.  Thanks for the attention, SOE.</P> <P> </P>

[Silverfrost]

<P>I've been doing some more investigating and here's what I've found out about issues on the bug list:</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>Stuns don't upgrade<BR></FONT></STRONG>No apparant increase in power or effect when upgrading Prostrate or Forced Submission from Apprentice to Adept versions.</P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>There does not appear to be a point for upgrading skill level on Sign of Weakness line<BR></FONT></STRONG>Sign of Weakness duration seems to be based entirely on character level.  For example, there appears to be no variation between an Adept I and and Adept III version of the spells.<BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>These are the same issue and it's a display problem only.  There is an implied reduction in the target's ability to resist the spell if it's cast as a higher tier spell.  Right now this implied effect is not being displayed anywhere but I'll see about getting it displayed so this doesn't look like a bug.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>Sanctuary is not upgrading properly<BR></FONT></STRONG><SPAN>Adept I and Adept III are identical spells.  Suggestion would be to make the Adept III better by giving it a longer duration or quicker recast time.<BR></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><SPAN>It is intended that the effect of these spells be the same.  The fact that two versions (Adept I and Adept III ) exist is solely to allow the player to get the spell through different gameplay paths (dropped for Adept I vs crafted for Adept III).</SPAN></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>Unyielding Benediction does not upgrade properly to Vigilant Benediction</STRONG></FONT><BR>Lower tier spell Identical to upper tier version.</SPAN></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><SPAN><SPAN>This is actually a display problem only but it's really ugly to describe how it works so we're going to change it.  Basically, right now having the higher level spell means that the stoneskin effect has a higher % chance of absorbing the incoming blow because the chance to absorb the blow is based on a ratio between the attacker's level and the spell's level.  I spoke with Archonix (who explained to me how it works <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ), and he's going to change this so that when the stoneskin procs it will always absorb the blow and that Unyielding Benediction will have a higher chance to proc the stoneskin effect in the first place, making it a clear upgrade to Vigilant Benediction.</SPAN></SPAN></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><SPAN><SPAN><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>Mark Line has Inconsistent Hate Generation<BR></FONT></STRONG>Reports exists indicating that Mark of Pawns does not draw hate, but Mark of Princes does.  </SPAN></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><SPAN><SPAN>I reviewed these spells and they are identical except for their level, <U>neither</U> of them is tagged as no hate.  Mark of Pawns will of course generate less hate because it's a lower level spell.</SPAN></SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Silverfrost on <span class=date_text>12-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:58 PM</span>

[Chog]

<DIV>Thanks Silverfrost for sheding some light onto the Templar issues (At least some of them).</DIV>

[Sute]

thanks for looking into these issues. Means alot to us templars who thought hope was lost.

[Arielle Nightshade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Silverfrost wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>Sanctuary is not upgrading properly<BR></FONT></STRONG><SPAN>Adept I and Adept III are identical spells.  Suggestion would be to make the Adept III better by giving it a longer duration or quicker recast time.<BR></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><SPAN>It is intended that the effect of these spells be the same.  The fact that two versions (Adept I and Adept III ) exist is solely to allow the player to get the spell through different gameplay paths (dropped for Adept I vs crafted for Adept III).</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Silverfrost..thank you SO much for looking into these, and for this feedback...this is awesome.   </P> <P> I'd like to comment on this remark though....seems to me that the gameplay path of the 2 - Adept I (if gotten in a drop) is more closely related to Apprentice IV (player made) than Adept 3 - which takes a rare to make.</P> <P>It's very disappointing to spend a lot of money or time getting a rare to upgrade a spell you like to Adept 3 only to find out that it ISN'T an upgrade, but is viewed as the player made version of Adept I.   It's apples and oranges, IMO...</P> <P>Thoughts?</P>

[Nari]

I have to agree.  The adept I version is a lot more common (even a player as lazy as myself has one) than the rare for the adept III version.  One of the main justifications for liveupdate 13 was that upgrading our spells would be more meaningful.  I appreciate the response regardless. <div></div>

[Mastera]

Wow...I don't know how common "Coder" post are around here (coming from swg), but thats [Removed for Content] awesome. I'm not even a templar, and I'm thrilled to see you've helped us out <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Thanks. <div></div>

[Andu]

<P>Can we have added that our group reactive cast time should be lowered to enable us to cast it <STRONG>before</STRONG> the members of our groups take significant damage. In this way, our reactive can actually react to the damage being dished out. </P> <P>As opposed to what we have at present where either the mage dies or the tank taunts the mob back off leaving the mage with next to no hit points but not being hit so the reactive doesn't heal them!</P> <DIV>Or something like that <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Anduri wrote:<BR> <P>Can we have added that our group reactive cast time should be lowered to enable us to cast it <STRONG>before</STRONG> the members of our groups take significant damage. In this way, our reactive can actually react to the damage being dished out. </P> <P>As opposed to what we have at present where either the mage dies or the tank taunts the mob back off leaving the mage with next to no hit points but not being hit so the reactive doesn't heal them!</P> <DIV>Or something like that <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You just want a shorter cast time then, or am I missing something?</P> <P> </P>

[Brutus2]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Anduri wrote:<BR> <P>As opposed to what we have at present where either the mage dies or the tank taunts the mob back off leaving the mage with next to no hit points but not being hit so the reactive doesn't heal them!</P> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>In this situation I use my Adept III Reverence to heal the mage not a reactive.  Reverence converts every point of power used into health at a 140% ratio.  So, yes it would be unwise to try to use a reactive to heal a mage after the fighter gets aggro back.  Instead, as soon as a mage gains aggro I throw Reverence on them and then switch right back to the MT.  This allows the mage to keep right on blasting away and heal themself in the process so I can go right back to healing the MT.<BR>

[Dallun]

<blockquote dir="ltr"> <p><span><span><font color="#ffff00"><strong>Unyielding Benediction does not upgrade properly to Vigilant Benediction</strong></font>Lower tier spell Identical to upper tier version.</span></span></p></blockquote> <p><span><span>This is actually a display problem only but it's really ugly to describe how it works so we're going to change it.  <font color="#ffff33">Basically, right now having the higher level spell means that the stoneskin effect has a higher % chance of absorbing the incoming blow because the chance to absorb the blow is based on a ratio between the attacker's level and the spell's level. </font> I spoke with Archonix (who explained to me how it works <img src="../../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" border="0" height="16" width="16"> ), and he's going to change this so that when the stoneskin procs it will always absorb the blow and that Unyielding Benediction will have a higher chance to proc the stoneskin effect in the first place, making it a clear upgrade to Vigilant Benediction. </span></span></p> <p><span><span>I was wondering if this change will also affect the Proc on the "Rubicite Studded Vale Gloves".  As this is not a spell I'm not sure that it will however the Proc has the name "stoneskin" and leads me to believe that has the same effect. </span></span></p> <p><span><span>Any input would be appriciated. </span></span></p> <p><span><span>Dallun (58 Warden - Antonia Bayle) </span></span></p> <div></div>

[KingOfF00LS]

Awesome work, Silverfrost.  We really appreciate having someone look into stuff we think might be bugs and giving us explanations on how this stuff is supposed to upgrade.  Thanks again! <div></div>

[Nari]

<span><blockquote>Kendricke wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Anduri wrote: <p>Can we have added that our group reactive cast time should be lowered to enable us to cast it <strong>before</strong> the members of our groups take significant damage. In this way, our reactive can actually react to the damage being dished out. </p> <p>As opposed to what we have at present where either the mage dies or the tank taunts the mob back off leaving the mage with next to no hit points but not being hit so the reactive doesn't heal them!</p> <div>Or something like that <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>You just want a shorter cast time then, or am I missing something?</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote></span>Well, if we're asking for stuff... yeah.  I would like to see a shorter cast time for that spell line. <div></div>

[Kendricke]

<P>Expanded Suggestion #4 to include healing lines for shorter cast times.</P> <P> </P>

[Andu]

<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Anduri wrote:<BR> <P>Can we have added that our group reactive cast time should be lowered to enable us to cast it <STRONG>before</STRONG> the members of our groups take significant damage. In this way, our reactive can actually react to the damage being dished out. </P> <P>As opposed to what we have at present where either the mage dies or the tank taunts the mob back off leaving the mage with next to no hit points but not being hit so the reactive doesn't heal them!</P> <DIV>Or something like that <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You just want a shorter cast time then, or am I missing something?</P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Sorry, I knew I wasn't being clear but my boss looked over my shoulder and I just hit send <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>The reason our group reactive is so weak compared to the furies HoT is because we need to have it in place while our group are taking damage, not after the event. Reactives cast after someone is hit do nothing.</P> <P>In order to make it more effective, why cannot it have a shorter cast time. The present one is so long it makes it worthless unless you cast it before the fight starts. If you do that, it just gets eaten up healing the MT.</P> <P>I can see no game breaking reason why it needs to have such a long cast time. If they want to limit the amount of times its cast per minute then just increase the recast time. At least it would be more useful that way.</P> <P>Note this has nothing to do with the overall suggestion to reduce the downtime on heals to stop us having nothing to cast. It's just another (and in my opinion more persuasive) reason to ask for the change.</P>

[Andu]

<P>Kendricke, I just noticed in the latest change you say "or simply increasing cast times for healing lines."</P> <P><BR>Im sure you didnt mean this wording <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <p>Message Edited by Anduri on <span class=date_text>12-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:57 AM</span>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Anduri wrote:<BR> <P>I can see no game breaking reason why it needs to have such a long cast time. If they want to limit the amount of times its cast per minute then just increase the recast time. At least it would be more useful that way.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Instead of an X cast time and a Y recast, you'd want a X-2 and Y+2?  I could certainly agree with that.  I'm always for faster casts.</P> <P> </P>

[Andu]

<P>Well, Im after X-2 because if you ask me Y is plenty. However, if X-2 Y+2 is all were gonna get then yes I would accept that - but probably not after some grumbling first.</P>

[Melfius]

Yes but if X-2 = Y+2, solve for b

[Quijonsith]

I think I just fell in love with silverfrost ^_^.  Ok, maybe not, but I can't say how much I am pleased to see such a wonderful post with such great information when we've gone so long with no word at all.  The sanctuary issue is definetly one to look at.  Adept 3's are supposed to be upgrades to Adept 1's, period.  NTM the use of rares to make adept 3's when adept 1's are much more common.  Keep up the great work silverfrost.  It is MUCH appreciated. <div></div>

[Melfius]

If I didn't say it (and I know I didn't), I also appreciate Silverfrost's attentions.  Thank you!

[Quijonsith]

    I'd also like to through in a couple more cents on priest heals in general.  Every class has the ability to scale what they do with they're lvls.  Fighters and scouts can increase their strength to get more DPS with all their combat arts as they level, helping scouts kill and fighters hold aggro (guardians still need some work in that area, but that's another topic for another board).  Mages increase their intellegence as they level with new gear and get more spell damage.  As tanks grow in level they fight tougher mobs that hit harder.  Their HP goes up (and I believe their mitigation scales aswell), but that doesn't change the fact that they are being attacked by more damage.  Priests heals don't scale with our levels the same way.  We increase our wisdom and our heals stay the same amount, we just get more power.  With the huge gap between replacement heals (T5 single target reactive at 42, T6 at 54) the closer we get to the replacement spell the harder it is to heal until we actually get the replacement.  Please make our spells scale with us until we get replacements our make them scale with our wisdom. <div></div>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Quijonsith wrote:<BR>    I'd also like to through in a couple more cents on priest heals in general.  Every class has the ability to scale what they do with they're lvls.  Fighters and scouts can increase their strength to get more DPS with all their combat arts as they level, helping scouts kill and fighters hold aggro (guardians still need some work in that area, but that's another topic for another board).  Mages increase their intellegence as they level with new gear and get more spell damage.  As tanks grow in level they fight tougher mobs that hit harder.  Their HP goes up (and I believe their mitigation scales aswell), but that doesn't change the fact that they are being attacked by more damage.  Priests heals don't scale with our levels the same way.  We increase our wisdom and our heals stay the same amount, we just get more power.  With the huge gap between replacement heals (T5 single target reactive at 42, T6 at 54) the closer we get to the replacement spell the harder it is to heal until we actually get the replacement.  Please make our spells scale with us until we get replacements our make them scale with our wisdom.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I believe this is already listed - regarding wisdom affecting healing.</P> <P> </P>

[Quijonsith]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote: <p>I believe this is already listed - regarding wisdom affecting healing.</p> <p>  </p><hr></blockquote>You're right, it is.  I was also throwing in that they used to increase with our levels and if they don't want to make our wisdom affect it then the spells should increase.  I just hit level 54 and my new single target reactive at apprentice 1 was better than my t5 reactive at adept 3.  </span><div></div>

[Quijonsith]

Reitteration here:  Can we get this thread stickied please? <div></div>

[Kendricke]

Updated for December 5th. 

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR>Updated for December 5th.  <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>...and for December 8th.

[Melfius]

Getting better.

[Kendricke]

<P>Live Update 18 seems to be addressing Bug Listing #6, Issue #2, and Suggestion #4.  </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[CasieStarfi]

<DIV>I believe Divine Arbitration is broken.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On casting it, I have some group members health stay in the green while others drop to yellow.  It seems completely random.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not talking about 2k hit points looking different in the health bar of a tank than it does in the health bar of a mage either.  I'm seeing mages drop to yellow while tanks stay green.  And it's not a spell range issue.   Anyone else having the same results?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I had hopes for this spell when we first got it.  I believed it had a place in our emegency healing line-up. But the more I use it the more sure I am that its unreliable and almost certainly just plain broken. =p</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Kendricke]

Updated for December 13

[Wildbulldog]

<div></div><font size="5"><strong><font color="#ccffff">Wish:</font></strong></font><strong><font color="#ccffff">Solo dps boost</font></strong>A self-only damage-dealing shield spell (like Nettleshield).  To keep inline with the Templar flavor it would be a 'holy' aura that deals Divine damage.  It would deal damage to your opponent when they successfully attack you in melee.  This would allow a boost to dps in Solo play but not in groups.  I think it would make sense (for the Templar flavor) for it to do extra damage to undead.  To further the Solo 'theme' of the spell it could have a buff to the Focus skill since we are more likely to be interrupted while soloing.  It should be a long term buff spell that uses a concentration point.<font color="#ff3300" size="4">Main Post Typo:<font size="3"><font color="#ffffff">Under Wishlist on number 4 you state:</font></font></font>    "...or simply increasing cast times for healing lines."I beleive you meant    "...or simply <font color="#ff3300" size="4">de</font>creasing cast times for healing lines."<div></div>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Wildbulldog wrote:<div></div><font size="5"><strong><font color="#ccffff">Wish:</font></strong></font><strong><font color="#ccffff">Solo dps boost</font></strong>A self-only damage-dealing shield spell (like Nettleshield).  To keep inline with the Templar flavor it would be a 'holy' aura that deals Divine damage.  It would deal damage to your opponent when they successfully attack you in melee.  This would allow a boost to dps in Solo play but not in groups.  I think it would make sense (for the Templar flavor) for it to do extra damage to undead.  To further the Solo 'theme' of the spell it could have a buff to the Focus skill since we are more likely to be interrupted while soloing.  It should be a long term buff spell that uses a concentration point.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Nah, templars need fulltime DPS boost of at least 75% to be used in both groups and in soloing, this is because all healers have close to equal healing power. Of course there are still imbalances like furies being able to heal any fighters while templars are in serious trouble with avoidance tanks. So yes, _all_healers_ should be equally boosted so that all (lvl 55+ and adept III spells) are able to make 250DPS in group situations. This is the par where furies are now and since furies are close to being best healers in all situations, no healer should have to settle for less DPS.</span><div></div>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wildbulldog wrote:<BR> <FONT size=5><STRONG><FONT color=#ccffff>Wish:</FONT></STRONG></FONT><BR><BR><STRONG><FONT color=#ccffff>Solo dps boost</FONT></STRONG><BR>A self-only damage-dealing shield spell (like Nettleshield).  To keep inline with the Templar flavor it would be a 'holy' aura that deals Divine damage.  It would deal damage to your opponent when they successfully attack you in melee.  This would allow a boost to dps in Solo play but not in groups.  I think it would make sense (for the Templar flavor) for it to do extra damage to undead.  To further the Solo 'theme' of the spell it could have a buff to the Focus skill since we are more likely to be interrupted while soloing.  It should be a long term buff spell that uses a concentration point.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Nah, templars need fulltime DPS boost of at least 75% to be used in both groups and in soloing, this is because all healers have close to equal healing power. Of course there are still imbalances like furies being able to heal any fighters while templars are in serious trouble with avoidance tanks. So yes, _all_healers_ should be equally boosted so that all (lvl 55+ and adept III spells) are able to make 250DPS in group situations. This is the par where furies are now and since furies are close to being best healers in all situations, no healer should have to settle for less DPS.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Amen Brother.

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wildbulldog wrote:<BR> <FONT size=5><STRONG><FONT color=#ccffff>Wish:</FONT></STRONG></FONT><BR><BR><STRONG><FONT color=#ccffff>Solo dps boost</FONT></STRONG><BR>A self-only damage-dealing shield spell (like Nettleshield).  To keep inline with the Templar flavor it would be a 'holy' aura that deals Divine damage.  It would deal damage to your opponent when they successfully attack you in melee.  This would allow a boost to dps in Solo play but not in groups.  I think it would make sense (for the Templar flavor) for it to do extra damage to undead.  To further the Solo 'theme' of the spell it could have a buff to the Focus skill since we are more likely to be interrupted while soloing.  It should be a long term buff spell that uses a concentration point.<BR><BR><BR><BR><FONT color=#ff3300 size=4>Main Post Typo:<BR><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff>Under Wishlist on number 4 you state:<BR><BR></FONT></FONT></FONT>    "...or simply increasing cast times for healing lines."<BR><BR>I beleive you meant<BR><BR>    "...or simply <FONT color=#ff3300 size=4>de</FONT>creasing cast times for healing lines."<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Updated both.</P> <P> </P>

[Hast]

<DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>I hope some developers read this and take note.</FONT> There are a lot of unhappy Templars out here. One of the BIGGEST problems I have with the way Templars work is that we should be the absolute KINGS of killing undead and we are not. I mean every cleric, priest, and healer from pretty much every other game system on the planet are the bane of undead. But in this game, my damage output versus undead can only be described as slightly above average at best. Some characters almost half my level can kill them faster than I can, and I am level 51. Why don't Templars get some sort of all-encompassing undead strike? Where is our turn undead ability? As I reach higher levels, undead should at the very least fear me. :smileyhappy: If Templars were the true slayers of undead (all types) then I think we would have more of a purpose than we do now. After all, its been said many many times, and it is true, that the other healing classes can heal as well as we can while being able to dish out punishment far beyond our capablilty.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our ability to inflict damage is another problem. Before LU13 (which I like to call 'THE GREAT NERFING'), we were really pretty good at soloing mobs, and I had a lot more fun playing this class. We also had more special abilities - like the stoneskin-like spell that would absorb the first three attacks from a mob - and all of that was taken from us after LU13. Now we're just average healers, below average combatants, and not much fun to play anymore. Before THE GREAT NERFING Templars had heals and buffs which could be cast across a whole raid, and now that is all gone. :smileysad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am really disappointed in this game, and play it a lot less than I used to. <FONT color=#ff0000>For one thing, stop changing the color of my user interface, SoE!!!! I can assure you that some umpteen updates ago when my inteface was blue, or black, or whatever, that it worked just as well as it does now that it is brown or purple or whatever the hell.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>If you're going to waste time and our money playing around with colors, then how about doing something useful and making armor look more unique? This game is borderline boring visually. If I wear crude cobalt plate or pristine imbued cobalt plate of the Gods, it all looks the same. That is just crap to me and I think you developers are LAZY.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry for the tangent. Um.... let's continue with Templar issues, shall we? :manvery-happy: I understand that the Holy Acolyte and the Summon Holy Symbol are just fun spells, but I really think it would boost this class if they were turned into actual combat spells. The acolyte could be a pet for this class, why not? It certainly makes sense that a high level Templar would have an acolyte just as a high level knight would have a squire. And the Holy Symbol could be made into something that would banish or damage undead. We could summon the holy symbol, equip it in inventory and then have it proc a ward against undead for its duration or until cancelled. Hey I think its a good idea! :smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, I really do hope developers will read this. I doubt they do though, because if they did they would take note of the unhappy people in this game and make changes. I've reduced my playing time so much so that I am considering switching to another game. This one isn't worth the time to play anymore.</DIV>

[Andu]

<span><blockquote><hr>Hastor wrote:<div></div><div>I understand that the Holy Acolyte and the Summon Holy Symbol are just fun spells, but I really think it would boost this class if they were turned into actual combat spells. The acolyte could be a pet for this class, why not?</div><hr></blockquote>This is not going to happen - just look at the uproar over the crusaders horse a while back.  In fact, I wish it wasn't in the original list at all because it just waters down the other more important points.</span><div></div>

[Zcore24]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Meribor wrote: <P>When I first started playing EQ2 last July, I decided I wanted to try a healing class first instead of going with my usual choice of caster class.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I had a cleric alt in EQ1 and enjoyed her, so I decided to try templar.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Guess what?<SPAN>  </SPAN>I loved playing her.</P> <P>While I did not expect to be able to solo as well as other classes, I was delighted to find that I could solo with my templar and had a wonderful time doing it while I had a LFG tag up or didn’t have time to commit to a group.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I never expected to be able to solo with my templar especially once I got closer to level 50, but I expected to be able to group with my guildmates at that point and play my alts when I wanted to solo.<SPAN>  </SPAN>So, she became my main.<BR> <BR>Then along comes LU #13 … after that, I finished up some quests that I was close to completing and dinged 31 doing it. <SPAN> </SPAN><STRONG>The ridiculous number of interrupts I experienced followed closely by having way too many fizzles are the main reasons</STRONG> <STRONG>LU #13 took all the fun out of playing my templar for me</STRONG>.<SPAN>  </SPAN><SPAN></SPAN>Other factors played a part, of course … like having to rely on pickup groups more because I’m in a small guild with mostly higher level players since I came to the game later.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I hated to bother them by asking them to help me with my quests most of the time now instead of just some of the time.<SPAN>  </SPAN>So I quit playing her.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Does that make me an idiot?<BR></P> <P>If I had started playing after the revamp, then I probably would have either gone with a fury as my healer or just stuck to my usual choice of playing a caster.  I went to the dark side and I'm playing a necromancer now and having fun again.<BR></P> <P>For me, it’s not the low dps that bothers me as much as the inability to cast somewhat consistently plus the time it took me to kill a mob (if I didn’t have to run or get killed because of all the interrupts) seemed to noticeably increase .  Though I wouldn't object to something that would increase templar dps in a minor way, the interrupts need to be calmed down considerably and become a minor irritant not the major irritant that they are now.<BR></P> <P>As for choosing the 'proper' things to fight, how many of the supposedly solo quests involve undead?<SPAN></SPAN></P><SPAN></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The same goes for me...<!-- StartFragment --></P> <P>36 Zek, the Orcish Wastes  June 16, 2005<BR>37 The Feerrott  June 25, 2005<BR>38 The Feerrott  June 29, 2005<BR>39 The Enchanted Lands  July 2, 2005<BR>40 Sundered Splitpaw: Upper Tunnels  July 5, 2005<BR>41 Zek, the Orcish Wastes  July 13, 2005<BR>42 The Feerrott  August 17, 2005<BR>43 Sundered Splitpaw: Upper Tunnels  August 26, 2005<BR>44 The Sinking SandsSeptember 16, 2005<BR>45 The Feerrott December 10, 2005</P> <P>It is not fun playing my Templar anymore</P> <p>Message Edited by Zcoretri on <span class=date_text>12-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:43 PM</span>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zcoretri wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>The same goes for me...<!-- StartFragment --></P> <P><snip></P> <P>It is not fun playing my Templar anymore</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>...and your bug, suggestion, or issue is?</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zcoretri wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>The same goes for me...<!-- StartFragment --></P> <P></P> <P>It is not fun playing my Templar anymore</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>...and your bug, suggestion, or issue is?</P> <P><BR> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>maybe a fix to make soloing decent for Templars. GASP

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR> <BR>maybe a fix to make soloing decent for Templars. GASP <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Bug Listing 1;  Issue Listings 1, 2, 4, 9, 10, 11; and Suggestion Listings 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, and 8 all address Templar soloing in some way.  </DIV>

[Zcore24]

Just making a statement Kendricke....I applaud in what you are doing and hopefully the Issue and Suggestion listings will be heard/seen by the devs and implemented in some way into bringing me back to playing my Templar. <div></div>

[Timaarit]

<P>**REMOVED DUE TO INAPPROPRIATE CONTENT**</FONT></P><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>12-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:22 AM</span>

[Kendricke]

Many listings addressed by Live Update 18

[MadisonPark]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>**REMOVE DUE TO INAPPROPRIATE CONTENT**</FONT></P><BR></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Kindly keep on topic. Thank you. You have many other threads to complain about pretty anything and everything you can think of (and Im fairly certain you will) Do so there. If youre not going to post constructively in this thread, please don't post at all.</P> <P> </P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ccff99>I have a wish, if we could have Reverence emit some type of logable message that allows us to see the actual amount it is causing the target to regen. </FONT></P> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ccff99>Also, you updated that the cast timer for our Rays of Faith line was shortened, when it was actually the recast timer.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ccff99></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ccff99>edited for grammar.</FONT></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by MadisonPark on <SPAN class=date_text>12-21-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:28 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>12-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:46 PM</span>

[Xerxess]

<P>**REMOVED DUE TO INAPPROPRIATE COMMENTS**</FONT></P><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>12-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:52 PM</span>

[Xerxess]

Add this to the your list...Can the Sign line please please get a new graphic...so People in your group know when you pacify a target. Its really annoying sometimes when you pacify a critter and then someone doesn't see it and hits it. Also AE Arrow attacks break out pacfies...anyway to stop that?<div></div>

[AzraelAzgard]

<P>Why are you whining about solo dps?</P> <P>I mean really, yes we can solo, no we cant solo some heroic stuff mages can, guess what? Mages are usually the top soloers in all MMORPG's because they have abilities to keep mobs away from them and nuke them into the floor, but if anything goes wrong they die in 1 hit.</P> <P>You can solo, you want dps and to heal? Play a druid thats what they do. You want to solo the best? Play a mage, thats what they can do if they choose.</P> <P> </P> <P>Who chooses a Templar to be the best soloer? I mean really.</P> <P> </P> <P>Hell in EQ1 a Cleric was my Main, if I wanted xp I basically had to group, did I sit on the forums whining I wanted to solo? Nope I took the class i chose to heal and grouped to 65 and 500 AA and it was fine.</P> <P>Wizards could quad kite, did I whine that Clerics should be able to quad kite?</P> <P> </P> <P>Nope I rolled a Wizard alt got him to lvl 65 200A, quad kited for mega solo xp when I wanted. And kitted him out in Time / Ele gear.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>These Templar issue threads need real issues about the class that are appropriate.</P> <P>Spell bugs with dps = fine, we are not a dps class, we will never be a dps class. We are the lowest dps class of the archtype, thats the idea, we arent going to get a boost over anyone, if you want to be a dps priest its druid - fury for you.</P> <P>If you want to complain about Templar vs Druid dps is not the place, healing is not allowed as we all have to be boringly balanced. So that leaves you with legitimate class balance complaints of Buffs, Debuffs and Utility if you want to go down that route but beward Druids have decided Odyssey = SoW Invis/Evac <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>The real Templar issues are broken spells and spells that have no quality upgrades.</P> <P>Rather than bickering amongst each other about Furies, dps and other rubbish, work together to get some real class issues fixed. We are a group orientated class.</P> <P>What? you want to argue that because everyone is supposed to be able to solo that makes it not a group orientated class? Common sense! what else is a healer designed to be as its base principle? group support perhaps?</P>

[kenji]

<P>if 100 dps is the 2nd lowest, u can fight for either 50 or 80 dps, why not get the 80 dps? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>i dont mind to be lowest dps, but 3x difference between lowest in T5 dps rank, and highest in T5 dps rank isnt fun.</P> <P>and the curse of DoF solo quests (god-king when can i see u) is another reason.</P>

[AzraelAzgard]

<DIV>Get a partner?</DIV>

[kenji]

why not just make it group quest then?

[Xaax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AzraelAzgard wrote:<BR> <P>Why are you whining about solo dps?</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#66ff99>People whine about DPS because EQ2 is very heavily geared toward the solo player currently. Hard content is rare while 95% of the content is soloable by all classes, including templar if you want to take hours to kill a few mobs. When you see two tanks and a mage kill off 2 ^^^ and 3 ^^ at once with no healer (I know they agroed on me and I took a dirt nap watching then do it) you really start wondering if healing on a Templar level is really needed =/ Well to be honest its not. Unless you are in killing epic mobs (Cazels, Poets, what not) you really dont need the healing power of a Templar (solo healing considered). </FONT></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#66ff99 size=3>These problems are not that Templars are broken and its not that we are too low DPS to work, its the content that SoE is putting out is too easy. Tempalrs would shine brightly if all of PoF were x2 mobs, Could you imagine Shimmering with all x2 mobs with x2 the agro range they have now.<SPAN>   </SPAN>Currently using a Templar to heal normal group encounters is like pulling out a 50 Cal to shoot flies.</FONT></P></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Xaax on <span class=date_text>12-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:07 PM</span>

[Kendricke]

<P>This is a list of bugs, issues, and suggestions.  Please remain on topic if possible.  I realize that not everyone's going to agree with the lists I have here, nor will they necessarily agree with the reasonings I often list for believing as I do.  However, there are dozens of discussions for such things.  This is not the place.</P> <P> </P>

[Quijonsith]

/agree    Please don't take this post off topic.

[kenji]

<DIV>bugs : solo quest can use a partner</DIV> <DIV>issue : templar solo the "solo quest" will need a partner to grind thru it</DIV> <DIV>suggestion : make it a group quest.</DIV> <P>/grin</P> <DIV><BR></DIV>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote:<p>This is a list of bugs, issues, and suggestions.  Please remain on topic if possible.  I realize that not everyone's going to agree with the lists I have here, nor will they necessarily agree with the reasonings I often list for believing as I do.  However, there are dozens of discussions for such things.  This is not the place.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>Here are few suggestions: 1. Make our group reactive to have 3s cast time and 17s recast for it to be more inline with druid group HoT. OR Make it 3s cast time, 10s recast, gives 5 procs to each group member. In AoE's this would still be inferior to HoT, but still an improvement. 2. Make Fate line to have 1s cast time and increase recast accordingly. This way it could actually be cast before target dies in a group encounter. 3. Double our basic DPS just by doubling the damage our spells do. This will still leave us at lower DPS than furies. 4. Get rid of those lotto heals, make our heals independent from other people and random chance. 5. Give us a new single target heal to compensate our lack of healing power and make us slightly better healers than furies are, with 3., this would closely balance these two classes.</span><div></div>

[Timaarit]

6. Get rid of our stun, soothe and mez lines and improve our basic healing accordingly by 25%. <div></div>

[Gobbwin]

<DIV>I'd like to see our wis buff be a gru buff.  Many of the other healing classes have a gru int and/or wis buff, why can't we?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since GoC and MoK lines are practically the same thing, can GoC be changed into something else, perhaps a DPS increaser?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Additionally, the defensive version of GoC (the name illudes me atm), can it proc more often or add a short duration mit buff after it procs?</DIV>

[Xerxess]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AzraelAzgard wrote:<BR> <P>Why are you whining about solo dps?</P> <P>I mean really, yes we can solo, no we cant solo some heroic stuff mages can, guess what? Mages are usually the top soloers in all MMORPG's because they have abilities to keep mobs away from them and nuke them into the floor, but if anything goes wrong they die in 1 hit.</P> <P>You can solo, you want dps and to heal? Play a druid thats what they do. You want to solo the best? Play a mage, thats what they can do if they choose.</P> <P> </P> <P>Who chooses a Templar to be the best soloer? I mean really.</P> <P> </P> <P>Hell in EQ1 a Cleric was my Main, if I wanted xp I basically had to group, did I sit on the forums whining I wanted to solo? Nope I took the class i chose to heal and grouped to 65 and 500 AA and it was fine.</P> <P>Wizards could quad kite, did I whine that Clerics should be able to quad kite?</P> <P> </P> <P>Nope I rolled a Wizard alt got him to lvl 65 200A, quad kited for mega solo xp when I wanted. And kitted him out in Time / Ele gear.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>These Templar issue threads need real issues about the class that are appropriate.</P> <P>Spell bugs with dps = fine, we are not a dps class, we will never be a dps class. We are the lowest dps class of the archtype, thats the idea, we arent going to get a boost over anyone, if you want to be a dps priest its druid - fury for you.</P> <P>If you want to complain about Templar vs Druid dps is not the place, healing is not allowed as we all have to be boringly balanced. So that leaves you with legitimate class balance complaints of Buffs, Debuffs and Utility if you want to go down that route but beward Druids have decided Odyssey = SoW Invis/Evac <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>The real Templar issues are broken spells and spells that have no quality upgrades.</P> <P>Rather than bickering amongst each other about Furies, dps and other rubbish, work together to get some real class issues fixed. We are a group orientated class.</P> <P>What? you want to argue that because everyone is supposed to be able to solo that makes it not a group orientated class? Common sense! what else is a healer designed to be as its base principle? group support perhaps?</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>But its ok for druids to whine for a year about being able to heal like Templars and finally getting boosted in the healing department. Now that you have good DPS and healing we can't whine about having a boost in DPS? doesn't that seem a bit selfish???

[MadisonPark]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR>4. Get rid of those lotto heals, make our heals independent from other people and random chance.<BR><BR></SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>Can you clarify what you mean by this? Lotto is random chance.<BR>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote>MadisonPark wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Timaarit wrote: <span><blockquote>4. Get rid of those lotto heals, make our heals independent from other people and random chance. <hr> </blockquote></span></blockquote>Can you clarify what you mean by this? Lotto is random chance. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Glory of Combat, Involuntary and Mark lines for starters, they work on random chance. If you can say that the RNG in this game truly is random...</span><div></div>

[MadisonPark]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE>MadisonPark wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE>4. Get rid of those lotto heals, make our heals independent from other people and random chance.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>Can you clarify what you mean by this? Lotto is random chance.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Glory of Combat, Involuntary and Mark lines for starters, they work on random chance. If you can say that the RNG in this game truly is random...<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I apologise, I misread your sentence. I thought you were asking for independent heals that used random chance, as opposed to be independant from them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unfortunately though, giving us multiple heals that have seperate cast timers that all other priests do not have can never be done, as this would make us unbalancingly superior healers. I don't know if you recall a thread posted 6 or so months back where we were actually accused of just that- having several unlinked heals that other classes didn't have.</DIV>

[Xerxess]

<DIV>So why can't we have better heals? We have low DPS so that makes us more group more to get real XP. Since we group more why can't we have better heals?</DIV>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> kenjiso wrote:<BR> <DIV>bugs : solo quest can use a partner</DIV> <DIV>issue : templar solo the "solo quest" will need a partner to grind thru it</DIV> <DIV>suggestion : make it a group quest.</DIV> <P>/grin</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Regardless of how wide you "grin", I've yet to find a solo quest I can't personally handle.  Are there specific steps of specific quests you feel are too difficult for Templars to complete?</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xerxess wrote:<BR> <DIV>So why can't we have better heals? We have low DPS so that makes us more group more to get real XP. Since we group more why can't we have better heals?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Are you finding it difficult to keep groups alive right now?  In what situations is your healing not enough?  Can you be specific as to which heals or situations you find Templars aren't up to task?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Xerxess]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xerxess wrote:<BR> <DIV>So why can't we have better heals? We have low DPS so that makes us more group more to get real XP. Since we group more why can't we have better heals?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Are you finding it difficult to keep groups alive right now?  In what situations is your healing not enough?  Can you be specific as to which heals or situations you find Templars aren't up to task?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>ok Maybe hasty about better heals...but yes I do find times where my healing is just not enough. Its not enough in the heal power but how fast I can get my heals off. I burn Grand Restoration and Grand Amerilation and have to wait 11 secs and in those 11 secs the tanks health drops pretty fast.  Maybe they can shorten the recast timers and that would boost our healing without boosting the heal points.

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xerxess wrote:<BR><BR> Maybe they can shorten the recast timers and that would boost our healing without boosting the heal points. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Shortening recast timers is listed already.  If you come up with something different you'd like listed, I'd be happy to do so.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Andu]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Xerxess wrote: <div>So why can't we have better heals? We have low DPS so that makes us more group more to get real XP. Since we group more why can't we have better heals?</div> <hr> </blockquote> <div>Are you finding it difficult to keep groups alive right now?  In what situations is your healing not enough?  Can you be specific as to which heals or situations you find Templars aren't up to task?</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote> I'm feeling a little queesy even as I type this but .... I agree with Kendricke <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <b>We don't need more healing.</b> Any more is just a waste. I have tried really hard in the past few weeks to go out there and push the boundaries as Kendricke puts it. The fact is, I have found very little content that has challenged my ability to heal. The only areas where I struggle are in places so extreme that frankly I should fail. Multiple encounters of orange con mobs for example, which one group should simply not be able to beat. Other than that, so much of the content is trivial from a healing point of view that I find we're still in the position we were before LU13, i.e we dump a few reactives on and can go and make a cup of coffee. Which is a major failing of LU 13 in my opinion. We can easily keep a group alive fighting 3 yellow heroic groups of mobs at once, by ourselves. Your mileage may vary depending on the ability and equipment of your tank and the support classes you have. However, bottom line is it is very hard to stretch us. Having said that, I think ALL healing classes are in pretty much the same boat. Which is why our toys (DPS and utility) become so important. Now, I'm off for a wash and some counselling. I feel dirty <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[Vidr]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Kendricke wrote: <P> </P> <DIV>Are you finding it difficult to keep groups alive right now?  In what situations is your healing not enough?  Can you be specific as to which heals or situations you find Templars aren't up to task?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I am a 55 templar and I have troubles healing a group by myself say in Poets or other zones where mobs have a few lvls on everyone (63+ mobs mainly). I mean when all of our good heals take 1/4 of a minute or more to refresh, it makes it hard to heal someone when they are getting whacked for 1-2k per hit. Even with both reactives up, you are not even covering half the dmg they sustain, so it is pretty difficult I would say. But for most sitiuations, it seems healing is barely needed, and in epic or 60+ encounters you need it a lot. Which is why we should get some other DPS spells possibly to help us contribute when healing isn't needed as much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But basically I think Templars suck the worst of any class at healing people when the mobs hit HARD. Shamans just put their ward up and it blocks it all, and it heals if it expires, just seems too amazing. I have not grouped with many druids, but I would say thier healing is along par with Templars (but with 2 or 3x the DPS) making it difficult to keep a tank alive on hard hitting mobs. The threshold between weak hits and hard hits needs to be taken care of with our healing. Get hit too weakly, our heals are basically wasted (heals 60dmg, and other 400 just poofs) or getting hit for 1500, heals for 460, and its hard to make up difference with direct heals that have 15s refreshes. I will have to think more about what would help, but I did enjoy my class a lot more a few months ago, when I could heal well and solo/dps alright when I am looking for a group, or just soloing on my own for fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Vidrak 55 Templar of Oggok<BR></DIV><p>Message Edited by Vidrak on <span class=date_text>12-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:39 PM</span>

[Andu]

<span><blockquote><hr>Vidrak wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <p></p> <hr> Kendricke wrote: <div>Are you finding it difficult to keep groups alive right now?  In what situations is your healing not enough?  Can you be specific as to which heals or situations you find Templars aren't up to task?</div> <div> </div> <hr> </blockquote> <div>I am a 55 templar and I have troubles healing a group by myself say in Poets or other zones where mobs have a few lvls on everyone (63+ mobs mainly). I mean when all of our good heals take 1/4 of a minute or more to refresh, it makes it hard to heal someone when they are getting whacked for 1-2k per hit. Even with both reactives up, you are not even covering half the dmg they sustain, so it is pretty difficult I would say. But for most sitiuations, it seems healing is barely needed, and in epic or 60+ encounters you need it a lot. Which is why we should get some other DPS spells possibly to help us contribute when healing isn't needed as much.</div> <div> </div> <div>But basically I think Templars suck the worst of any class at healing people when the mobs hit HARD. Shamans just put their ward up and it blocks it all, and it heals if it expires, just seems too amazing. I have not grouped with many druids, but I would say thier healing is along par with Templars (but with 2 or 3x the DPS) making it difficult to keep a tank alive on hard hitting mobs. The threshold between weak hits and hard hits needs to be taken care of with our healing. Get hit too weakly, our heals are basically wasted (heals 60dmg, and other 400 just poofs) or getting hit for 1500, heals for 460, and its hard to make up difference with direct heals that have 15s refreshes. I will have to think more about what would help, but I did enjoy my class a lot more a few months ago, when I could heal well and solo/dps alright when I am looking for a group, or just soloing on my own for fun.</div> <div> </div> <div>-Vidrak 55 Templar of Oggok</div><p>Message Edited by Vidrak on <span class="date_text">12-22-2005</span> <span class="time_text">12:39 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote> You are a 55 Templar and are looking to solo heal one of the hardest zones in the game. Of course you are going to find it difficult. Wait till you are 60, have your improved direct heals (none of which you have at the moment) and then let us know how you are getting on. If you are casting your reactives and the heals are being wasted, you are casting them to early. Wait for your tank to get to 75% hp's or something. If your reactives cannot cope, then trust me, a ward or HoT would also fail. Wards are great when they are up but they go down fast and the interval between them failing and you recasting them leads to some insane damage on the tank, which you have to catch up with once you have reestablished the ward. It's swings and roundabouts. </span><div></div>

[Timaarit]

**REMOVED DUE TO INAPPROPRIATE CONTENT**<p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>01-03-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:50 PM</span>

[Viane]

<DIV> <HR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote: <P>Regardless of how wide you "grin", I've yet to find a solo quest I can't personally handle.  Are there specific steps of specific quests you feel are too difficult for Templars to complete?</P> <P> </P> <P>Kendricke-Out of curiosity have you started the peacock quest line...specifically the A thief in the house of quests?  These are solo instanced quests and are on a timer (as in you CANNOT have a partner to complete them and you have 3 mins to kill A or B mob).  I personally had to wait until I was level 60 and the mobs were gray which I find rather unacceptable.<BR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV>

[Quijonsith]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Viane wrote:<BR> <DIV> <HR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote: <P>Regardless of how wide you "grin", I've yet to find a solo quest I can't personally handle.  Are there specific steps of specific quests you feel are too difficult for Templars to complete?</P> <P> </P> <P>Kendricke-Out of curiosity have you started the peacock quest line...specifically the A thief in the house of quests?  These are solo instanced quests and are on a timer (as in you CANNOT have a partner to complete them and you have 3 mins to kill A or B mob).  I personally had to wait until I was level 60 and the mobs were gray which I find rather unacceptable.<BR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I've not run into this quest line myself, but it definitely sounds like something that needs addressing if what you say is accurate.</DIV>

[SG_01]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Quijonsith wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Viane wrote:<BR> <DIV> <HR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote: <P>Regardless of how wide you "grin", I've yet to find a solo quest I can't personally handle.  Are there specific steps of specific quests you feel are too difficult for Templars to complete?</P> <P> </P> <P>Kendricke-Out of curiosity have you started the peacock quest line...specifically the A thief in the house of quests?  These are solo instanced quests and are on a timer (as in you CANNOT have a partner to complete them and you have 3 mins to kill A or B mob).  I personally had to wait until I was level 60 and the mobs were gray which I find rather unacceptable.<BR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I've not run into this quest line myself, but it definitely sounds like something that needs addressing if what you say is accurate.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I managed to do them all at level 52, no problem <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Ofcource I had my Camo racial ability, but totems will get you through it also.</DIV>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Viane wrote:<BR>Out of curiosity have you started the peacock quest line...specifically the A thief in the house of quests?  These are solo instanced quests and are on a timer (as in you CANNOT have a partner to complete them and you have 3 mins to kill A or B mob).  I personally had to wait until I was level 60 and the mobs were gray which I find rather unacceptable.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I could list Peacock Quests under issues then as a balance concern...but some Templars are able to still get through the quests.  Are you certain that it's a class issue, or a Viane issue?</P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by Kendricke on <span class=date_text>12-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:48 AM</span>

[Viane]

<DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Who knows...could be a Cel issue.  I tried at less than 60 and got so frustrated with the thing I quit until I knew it would be gray.  Every other templar friend I have on the server did the same.  I'm sure everything is possible to someone, but the above listed person is the first templar I personally have heard say it was not an issue. </DIV>

[faldorian viva]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Viane wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Who knows...could be a Cel issue.  I tried at less than 60 and got so frustrated with the thing I quit until I knew it would be gray.  Every other templar friend I have on the server did the same.  I'm sure everything is possible to someone, but the above listed person is the first templar I personally have heard say it was not an issue. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well he used racial camo, and other suggest invis potions.. all good tactics perhaps, but the idea behind me doing the quest is to do it with the skill i get as a class not the skills i can buy beside that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is it so hard to have them add some dps to the templars for soloing.</DIV> <DIV>There have been so much good idea's thought up on this board on how to realize it. </DIV> <DIV>And no i don't play this game to solo, and yes i do have a conjuror already.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The moments i do solo i just want to be able to do it a little quicker then we can now. Ranger from my guild was amazed at the speed i solo at, and it is not because i can't pack a punch or i have lousy spells. It is because i have no means to solo. Does that mean i can't kill it? No, not at all, it does mean however that i need to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] long per mob to kill it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please, add this to the list of things they need to look into.</DIV>

[adaman]

<P><STRONG>Templar = melee healer?</STRONG></P> <P>Many times we have said that templar wear heavy armor, others healers no, and so maybe this is why others get more utility, or dps, than us.<BR>So, if we wear heavy armors, lets take advantage of that: IMHO, we should be able to be a true melee healer - not a far distance healer, as others healers are.</P> <P>To be this, here my consideration/suggestion:<BR>- <FONT color=#ffff00>Heavy armors should means less, less interruptions</FONT>: Heavy Armor should protect better that chain/light armor from interruptions. This because is a no-sense to give us the possibility to wear any type of armor and then let us only heal from a far distance.<BR>- <FONT color=#ffff00>An Heal spell line that "cannot" be interrupted</FONT>. From same reason, it will be nice to have at least 1 spell line that cannot be interrupted by enemy aoe. Ok if we are target directly, but not from an aoe. To be balanced, this spell line should have a short range.<BR>- <FONT color=#ffff00>More mitigation/focus on self</FONT>. Taking damage in melee, we should have some 'personal' mitigation bonus. For example, since Praetorate/Protectorate is the only spell we usually cast on self, it should have a +mitigation bonus and/or a Focus bonus.</P> <P><BR>for WISHLIST:<BR>- <FONT color=#ffff00>Turn Undead</FONT>: I agree with some other people who already post this, we are templar, we MUST have a turn undead (fear effect to undead) ability or something like that.<BR>- <FONT color=#ffff00>More melee damage?</FONT>. I dont want big nuke as fury. But since we are able to heal in melee range, it should be nice to help group with some little more melee damage. A buff or effect such as "domination" could be very appreciated.<BR><FONT size=1>(domination is an human trait: 5% prob. every hit to do few points of divine damage - at Level 60 is 40 points of damage. just a little melee help)</FONT></P> <P>I hope that others templars agree with my consideration <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P><BR>Last, english is not my first language, so please forgive me if my expression aren't good at all <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[faldorian viva]

<DIV>i know this isn't eq1, and maybe this has been adressed before, but why not add a Yaulp line for those little templar melee moments?</DIV>

[Quijonsith]

<DIV>What's a yaulp, other than what my dog does if I accidentally step on his paw.</DIV>

[Lydiae]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xerxess wrote:<BR> <DIV>So why can't we have better heals? We have low DPS so that makes us more group more to get real XP. Since we group more why can't we have better heals?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Are you finding it difficult to keep groups alive right now?  In what situations is your healing not enough?  Can you be specific as to which heals or situations you find Templars aren't up to task?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I was in a group last night fighting the Spectres near the beach in Sinking Sands.  They were all either blue or white ^^^ to me.  The others in the group were one or two levels below me.  In addition to myself, we had a Berserker tank, a necromancer and an assasin.  If you count the Necro's pets, we were basically a full group.   <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I cast master II group reactive on the pull as he ran back, Usually cast my big direct ASAP as he would usually come back to the camp harmed touched.  I had redoubt and Glory of Combat up on him.</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Spectres hit hard and slow with a harm touch that was hitting the 'zerker for 1500 - 1800 of his 3600 hit points.  I if one landed two of them in a row, he went deep into orange, and I would be sitting there with both reactives up waiting for my direct heals to come back up off recast to try to save him.  I was basically helpless to do anything, and I watched him die twice and nearly die 4 or 5 times.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've never been in a situation like that before, I always get complimented on my healing when I group, and my tanks rarely die.  This time the necromancer kept a Templar adept 1 that dropped. :smileysad:</DIV>

[faldorian viva]

<BR> <P>hope this works... copied some info from allakhazam,</P><BR> <P></P><A href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=210" target=_blank>Yaulp</A>CLR/1 PAL/9<B>3:</B> Increase STR by 10<BR><B>5:</B> Increase AC by 6<BR>None0Self<IMG src="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/spellicons/gem_6b.png"><A href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=43" target=_blank>Yaulp II</A>CLR/16 PAL/38<B>3:</B> Increase STR by 20<BR><B>5:</B> Increase AC by 9<BR>None0Self<IMG src="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/spellicons/gem_6b.png"><A href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=44" target=_blank>Yaulp III</A>CLR/41 PAL/56<B>3:</B> Increase STR by 30<BR><B>5:</B> Increase AC by 12<BR>None0Self<IMG src="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/spellicons/gem_6b.png"><A href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=1534" target=_blank>Yaulp IV</A>CLR/53 PAL/60<B>1:</B> Increase ATK by 17<BR><B>3:</B> Increase STR by 40<BR><B>5:</B> Increase AC by 15<BR>None0Self<IMG src="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/spellicons/gem_6b.png"><A href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=2326" target=_blank>Yaulp V</A>CLR/56<B>1:</B> Increase ATK by 50<BR><B>6:</B> Increase Mana by 10 per tick<BR><B>8:</B> Increase DEX by 75<BR><B>9:</B> Increase Attack Speed by 25%<BR>None0Self<IMG src="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/spellicons/gem_6b.png"><A href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=3186" target=_blank>Yaulp VI</A>CLR/65<B>1:</B> Increase ATK by 60<BR><B>6:</B> Increase Mana by 12 per tick<BR><B>8:</B> Increase DEX by 90<BR><B>9:</B> Increase Attack Speed by 30%<BR>None0Self<IMG src="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/spellicons/gem_6b.png"><A href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=5273" target=_blank>Yaulp VII</A>CLR/69<B>1:</B> Increase ATK by 80<BR><B>6:</B> Increase Mana by 14 per tick<BR><B>8:</B> Increase DEX by 100<BR><B>9:</B> Increase Attack Speed by 30%<BR>None0Self <BR> <P> </P><BR> <P>Anyways can't apply it like this to eq2... but the idea behind this whole spell line was to improve the ability of the Cleric to solo, even if it was for a short period cause this was a very short duration buff.</P><BR> <P>Quick to cast in combat and very situational since you only use it when you fight. Not saying they need to use the stats like mentioned here, cause only showed them to give an idea what Yaulp was. Just hoping they will add something to improve our soloability.</P><BR> <P> </P>ps. sorry cant get the image to work well.... looked good when writing the post.. :smileysad:<BR> <P>Message Edited by faldorian vivace on <SPAN class=date_text>12-29-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:43 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by faldorian vivace on <span class=date_text>12-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:45 AM</span>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> faldorian vivace wrote:<BR> <DIV>i know this isn't eq1, and maybe this has been adressed before, but why not add a Yaulp line for those little templar melee moments?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>This is already listed under Wishlists (currently 2nd item).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>P.S. - List updated for December 29.  </DIV><p>Message Edited by Kendricke on <span class=date_text>12-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:52 AM</span>

[faldorian viva]

<DIV><BR> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> faldorian vivace wrote:<BR> <DIV>i know this isn't eq1, and maybe this has been adressed before, but why not add a Yaulp line for those little templar melee moments?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>This is already listed under Wishlists (currently 2nd item).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>P.S. - List updated for December 29.  </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Kendricke on <SPAN class=date_text>12-29-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:52 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>God, i need glasses</DIV> <DIV>Good that it is in there :smileytongue:</DIV>

[adaman]

<P>Bounty of Virtuous / Amelioration spell line: <FONT size=1>(Bounty of Virtuous is a bonus spell sold in splitpaw expansion)</FONT></P> <P>After a live update those two spell share the same recast time, but the symbol for trigger HO has been changed. Is this a bug that need to be fixed?</P> <P> </P>

[CasieStarfi]

<P>Sanctuary bugs necro, chanter and conj pets?</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=20" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=20</A></P>

[Kendricke]

Updated

[Kendricke]

<P>Updated again, January 5.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by Kendricke on <span class=date_text>01-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:19 AM</span>

[Wossname]

Personally I would like to see Mark of Kings heal for more. 30HP/tick (Ad3) when the tank has 4500 HP is laughable. It heals less per tick than a lambent imbued robe (70HP/tick) and the robe effect is on permanently. I am well aware that the damage is going in different directions for the two types but I think the comparison remains valid. The divine mitigation debuff means little unless you are grouped with a paladin as our DPS is a joke.<div></div>

[Kendricke]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Wossname wrote:Personally I would like to see Mark of Kings heal for more. 30HP/tick (Ad3) when the tank has 4500 HP is laughable. It heals less per tick than a lambent imbued robe (70HP/tick) and the robe effect is on permanently. I am well aware that the damage is going in different directions for the two types but I think the comparison remains valid. The divine mitigation debuff means little unless you are grouped with a paladin as our DPS is a joke.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Updated list to include.

[MadisonPark]

<div>I have noticed involuntary curate failing to cure trauma effects.</div>

[kenji]

<div></div>due to the lvl of the spell is too low, and it doesnt grow with us. so basically its just an anti hit proc which doesnt cure. (expecially when fighting mobs higher lvl than templar

[MadisonPark]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>kenjiso wrote:<div></div>due to the lvl of the spell is too low, and it doesnt grow with us. so basically its just an anti hit proc which doesnt cure. (expecially when fighting mobs higher lvl than templar<hr></blockquote>It removes up to 72 levels, how is that too low?

[Kendricke]

<div></div>Updated

[Legend2u2]

Perhaps this is the wrong place to put ths as it is not something that effects only Templars but all healers I think. Also it is not a huge deal but an annoyance none the less. I decided to put it here because it is not specifically a bug either.Am I the only one who gets annoyed when you trigger the heroic opportunity that has a grail above it and no casters who can trigger the nuke symbol in the middle? This happens quite often in groups and usually just sits there until it expires. Is there an easy way to get rid of it doing this without dramatically effecting the game? I know you can restart the HO's trigger etc. but I was hoping something could be done on the designers end so that it does not happen at all.Like I said a minor little thing, but if it is a wish list, might as well make a wish.

[Andu]

Just as a note, although Reverence was looked at in LU18, it is still woefully poor and I think you should reinstate it on your list.For one of our ancient spells it is a huge disappointment. It needs a serious revamp, longer duration, more higher health/power ratio etc.<div></div>

[kenji]

<div>....Reverence 210% is considered a real fix? OP crossed it out like its no longer bad spell, but i still havent changed my mind and use it since updated....</div>

[Jewels]

<div>I have enjoyed playing my Templar since the day I first created her 60 levels back until LU18.  I was happy to know we can now solo writs. So my first goals where to increase my factions with all the cities and do that solo. I've done well so far and am top guild contributed on my server, woot, woot! Yet, let me tell you the interruptions are a bit over the top. I'm just trying to understand why but to give me some serious finger cramps and test my patience because I don't see how it's making the game more challenging.  Between the way my Templar has been lowered to less than most enjoyable healer class to play and LU19 where mobs now have the same spells player classes have I've got to say this is getting worst and not better to solo. Group heals take way to long...etc.  Please SOE show us Templar classes some love. I'm hopeful.</div>

[Kendricke]

<div></div><p>Updated to include requests regarding Reverence as a new listing in Wishlist.  Also, removed request for additional log parsing as it seems all Templar spells are now showing up in logs. </p><p> </p>

[Andu]

<div></div><p><font color="#ffffff">Hope you don't mind, I was reading the list today and thought a few things could be brought up to date. Just my thoughts:</font></p><p><span>Weakness</span></p><p><span>Even though the effect is no longer the same, the recast timer remains linked between Weakness and "Sign" line. </span></p><p><span><strong>You can remove this now. Weakness has gone in LU19.</strong></span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>Divine Arbitration does not seem to be working as stated</span></p><p><span>Reports have surfaced that at times, Divine Arbitration distributes life contrary to stated expectations.</span></p><p><span><strong>This is because the hp’s should be balanced in %age terms not numeric terms and makes people think there is something wrong with the spell. I have checked to see if there is an error in the maths and it does seem to be consistent so I don’t think there is a bug.</strong></span></p><p><span><strong>What is a bug is the fact there is no improvement from Adept I to III. See below.</strong></span></p><p><span></span><span></span> </p><p><span>Harmony generates hate</span></p><p><span>Reports are being heard that Harmony seems to be generating hate in some cases.</span></p><p><span><strong>I suspect this is because people don’t realise this is a true AOE spell (blue background not green) and will agro mobs outside of the current encounter. In addition, it can be resisted and it will then increase hate. A simple way to demonstrate this is to cast it in one of the towers in Maj’Dul and watch a ton of guards descend on the party from above. I have never seen it cause what I would consider a bug.</strong></span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>Templar (and really all other priests') DPS is significantly lower than that of Furies. </span></p><p><span>Though Furies are now much more powerful than previously in handling healing in most situations, Templars are not more powerful relatively speaking in regards to damage output.<span>  </span>Though normally this would not be as great an issue due to our typically greater defense, the fact remains that due to changes to experience debt and now even shard collections, death is no longer as great a detriment as it once was...leaving Furies able to gain significantly more experience than Templars in soloing situations.<span>  </span>In addition, this leads to a perception that Furies are more desirable in grouping situations.</span></p><p><span><strong>It has been noted that Wardens do considerable damage also, if restricted to single targets. Parses on raids I have been on have also demonstrated Wardens consistently outdamaging furies. I think it would be fairer to change the wording from Furies to Druids.</strong></span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>Group instant heal range is too short</span></p><p><span>Group reactive is normally 25m.<span>  </span>Our group instant heals only range for 10m. </span></p><p><span><strong>I can’t help but think this is a bug.</strong></span></p><p><span><strong></strong></span> </p><p><span>Divine Arbitration </span></p><p><span>~~<span>  </span>In addition, there's no change in penalty from Adept I to Adept III.</span></p><p><span><strong>I think this is a bug as it actually states in the spell description there should be an improvement for upgrading the spell.</strong></span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>Undead Situational Damage</span></p><p><span>More undead quests would help clerics to take advantage of our Strike line more.<span>  </span>In addition, having more access to ways to damage undead ...or even increasing the undead damage we already produce seems to be a willing compromise many Templars would be willing to accept in place of an outright overall DPS boost.</span></p><p><span><strong>Perhaps this needs to be altered in line with the new AA’s. What is clear is that more mobs/quests are needed to take advantage of the AA’s. I think it’s also worth noting that the recast time on Turn Undead is far too long given the situational nature of the spell.</strong></span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>Reactives Should Be More Efficient</span></p><p><span>When a ward's duration expires, any unused amount of the ward is applied as a heal.<span>  </span>Reactives should work similarly, in that they should also heal any unused amount at the end of duration.<span>  </span>This will assist with healing avoidance based fighters, such as monks.</span></p><p><span><strong>This is a bug again if you ask me, it’s so obvious that it should work this way.</strong></span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>Peacock Quests seem a bit difficult for some Templars</span></p><p><span>Some of the solo quests in the Peacock quests seem particularly difficult according to reports from a segment of the Templar community.</span></p><p><span><strong>Just more evidence that our DPS is too low.</strong></span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>Wisdom does not seem to be affecting heals.</span></p><p><span>It was widely believed prior to the revamp that wisdom would be affecting heals.<span>  </span>Though it's apparantly that Intelligence affects spell damage, there is no apparant effect for having more wisdom.<span>  </span>Wisdom has long been a primary attribute of all healing classes - including even Paladins.</span></p><p><span><strong>Haven’t we had a response by the Dev’s saying this will never happen due to the complexity of rewriting the healing system? I do agree it should happen though.</strong></span></p><p><span></span><span></span> </p><p><span>Any ideas that we allowed to melee a little better?</span></p><p><span>Perhaps a Yaulp or other effect to increase our melee DPS.<span>  </span>This effect could be added to the Rebuke spell line.<span>  </span>In addition to the mitigation debuff which is already there, this could also increase the weapon speed and STR of the casting Templar.<span>  </span>In group situations, this might result in a small DPS boost for the Templar which likely won't matter all that much, in and of itself.<span>  </span>However, in a soloing situation, this boost could make a world of difference.</span></p><p><span><strong>Should this be rewritten in line with AA’s?</strong></span></p><p><span><strong></strong></span> </p><p><span>Holy Acolyte to do something?</span></p><p><span>When soloing, perhaps the Holy Acolyte could assist the Templar in some fashion...assisting with damage spells or by increasing the ability of the Templar to melee.<span>  </span>When grouping, perhaps the Templar could assist with random group cures or small buffs.</span></p><p><span><strong>This was never going to happen as it was a fluff spell. With the addition of the hammer I think this item is now a bit unnecessary. What is necessary is the fact the hammer is only available at lvl 65 when there are a lot of Templars at lower level who could really use it to help their DPS.</strong></span></p><p><span><strong>The hammer should be an AA spell the more I think about it. There are lots of other more appropriate abilities to make a lvl 65 spell such as Divine Aura.</strong></span></p><p><span></span><span></span> </p><p><span>Possible Change to Mark of Kings</span></p><p><span>Add a reverse damage shield effect to Mark of Kings in addition to the divine debuff and chance at proc heal (or alter the heal to be constant).<span>  </span>Every time a creature attacks while "Marked", it would take a small amount of divine damage.<span>  </span>Every time a player attacks a marked target, that player would take a small heal (or take a mark effect upon themselves which acts as a small regen).<span>  </span>In groups, this would assist in a support role for Templars.<span>  </span>Soloing, it would allow Templars to attack more without having to stop to heal quite as often.<span>  </span>By adjusting the Mark damage effect to work only on successful attacks, it would also be more effective with mitigation based players rather than avoidance based (again, assisting Templars in full plate more).<span>  </span>Alternatively, simply increasing the amount of healing performed by Mark of Kings (or Princes or Celestial) would be seen favorably by some.</span></p><p><span><strong>The reverse damage shield is similar to a Coercer spell (and one of their best ones). Given the fact we are now ghetto-Enchanters anyway it seems a reasonable request.</strong></span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>Reverence needs more "oomph"<span>  </span>NEW!!</span></p><p><span>Though fixed in a recent update to include much more power to health ratio, Reverence still seems to lack any real power.<span>  </span>Many Templars would like to see this spell powered up a bit, with either more healing, longer duration, or both.</span></p><p><span><strong>This is a class issue not a wish list item. The spell is woeful compared to other priests lvl 52 ancient spells in its current form.</strong></span></p>

[MadisonPark]

Not to nitpick, but our group direct heal's range is 20 m.

[Kendricke]

<div></div><p>Nitpicking can be good.  I'll update the list this weekend and bring a few of the more outdated listings more inline with current reality.</p><p> </p>

[Eriol]

<blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote:<p><span>Templar (and really all other priests') DPS is significantly lower than that of Furies. </span></p><p><span>Though Furies are now much more powerful than previously in handling healing in most situations, Templars are not more powerful relatively speaking in regards to damage output.<span> </span><b>Though normally this would not be as great an issue due to our typically greater defense</b>, the fact remains that due to changes to experience debt and now even shard collections, death is no longer as great a detriment as it once was...leaving Furies able to gain significantly more experience than Templars in soloing situations.<span> </span>In addition, this leads to a perception that Furies are more desirable in grouping situations.</span></p><hr></blockquote>In addition to Anduri's comments about changing this to "druids" rather than just "furies", I would also suggest that the wording of a section of the second sentence (which I bolded) be axed entirely. Now I know we have drastically different opinions on this, but it also comes across (to me at least) as apologizing before-the-fact, and marginalizing the opinion right out-of-the-gate. If I were to re-edit this paragraph, my suggestion would be (including the "druid" changes suggested by Anduri):<blockquote><hr><p><b>Templar (and really all other priests') DPS is significantly lower than that of Druids.</b></p><p>Though Druids are now much more powerful than previously in handling healing (equal to templars and everyone else in almost all situations), Templars are not more powerful relatively speaking in regards to damage output. This leaves Druids able to gain significantly more experience than Templars in soloing situations. In addition, this DPS gap also makes Druids more able in grouping situations, mostly evident in small groups where every last piece of DPS is valued.</p><hr></blockquote>That's my idea for that section at least. Short, and to the point IMO.

[Kendricke]

<div></div><p>Eriol, I'll discuss facts within this post.  However, if you have issues with my choice of wording, style, or tone, you can simply take your ideas to the other issues discussion, maintained by Caethre.</p><p> </p>

[Eriol]

<blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote:<p>Eriol, I'll discuss facts within this post. However, if you have issues with my choice of wording, style, or tone, you can simply take your ideas to the other issues discussion, maintained by Caethre.</p><hr></blockquote>If you don't like the suggestion, fine, don't use it, but don't start sniping right away. I'm trying to make everything around here the best it can be, not "divided by thread".This was an honest suggestion, and you just lashed out with an "us vs them" thing.

[Andu]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote:<div></div><p>Eriol, I'll discuss facts within this post.  However, if you have issues with my choice of wording, style, or tone, you can simply take your ideas to the other issues discussion, maintained by Caethre.</p><hr></blockquote>There was no need to be so defensive - after all this thread is now stickied at the top so in this thread you need to encompass all Templars opinions and not just your own. That's the price for having a stickied thread.Eriol was very polite in his suggestion, your response was uncalled for.</span><div></div>

[AzraelAzgard]

<div>Divine Arbitration Ad1 - Ad3 - M1 upgrades work and theres a difference in penalty, allthough a little less than what would be liked (Master 1 should be zero penalty imo) so thats ok.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>The real thing here is now the way DivArb works, the way it balances the actualy hp number is bad imo, this means everyone goes to 4k hp or something, which basically puts your tank in the group into deep orange hp, limiting its use to saving casters but at the expense of putting the tank close to death, imagine the tank being 100% mage takes a huge hit u cast DA and all of u are now 90% except the tank whos now 35% and got aggro back off the mage and starts getting hits, in a flash hes red health...</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>If DivArb balanced the % hp amount of the group instead it would put everyone the same, more evenly balancing out the hp, tanks wouldnt be thrown into low hp and now suddenly instead of having a skill to save low hp classes by plunging your tank into low hp you now have a skill that can be used to save any class of any hp amount with control over the rest of the groups hp, no worry of differing hp max amounts, no worry of people being sent into random hp levels, even if the group is collectively lower hp and you use it atleast they all come out the same rather than the tank being thrown increasingly closer to death depending on what the groups hp is at the time.</div><div> </div><div>If DivArb equalized the % of the group it would be better not just for Templars, but other priests with us, of course the tanks no longer thrown close to death by the mad Templar <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>Basically it would be a far better way to have the spell work in all ways over the current one, and as a lvl 58 Ancient spell it would justify its 15min reuse timer.</div>

[MadisonPark]

If our acolyte gets AEd, or knocked into combat in some other manner, he stops responding to commands- pretty much stops following.

[AgingGamer]

<div><span><blockquote><span></span><span><blockquote><hr>Anduri wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#ffffff">Hope you don't mind, I was reading the list today and thought a few things could be brought up to date. Just my thoughts:</font></p><p><span>Weakness</span></p><p><span>Even though the effect is no longer the same, the recast timer remains linked between Weakness and "Sign" line. </span></p><p><span><strong>You can remove this now. Weakness has gone in LU19.</strong></span></p><p><span></span> </p><hr></blockquote></span> Dumb question: does anyone know why Weakness was removed entirely from clerics?  Debuffing was my life, and the last few updates have taken all of that away and tried to turn my templar into a low-budget enchanter or something- I'm trying to figure out what the heck the developers are thinking here.</blockquote></span></div>

[Kendricke]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>AgingGamer wrote:<span>Dumb question: does anyone know why Weakness was removed entirely from clerics?  Debuffing was my life, and the last few updates have taken all of that away and tried to turn my templar into a low-budget enchanter or something- I'm trying to figure out what the heck the developers are thinking here.</span><hr></blockquote><p>You may want to ask that in another discussion, as this particular discussion is for listing out bugs, issues, or suggestions.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Kendricke]

<div></div>Updated

[Blast2hell]

<div></div><p>Our Odyssey, requires a group member to agree to it....I personally haven't seen the box...but I know a confrmation box shows up now to other people you cast it on.   I was hoping they could change this spell.   Leave it at group/raid only....but the confirmation box should be a decline only box....where after 30 or 60 seconds...if you don't decline..it ports you back home.   This would give it back it's orginal function which was to send group members home that fell asleep at the keys or something.</p>

[Blast2hell]

<div></div><p>also, section III, Item 9.....templar spell logging.   It goes along with the problem of wards...but our Wards don't log.   We receive no credit or knowledge of Aegis of FAith...and if it warded anything.....also...Unyielding Benidiction...this spell blocks a lot of damage...and procs quite a bit...at least for me it does...I have a master 1 version, and it's been a great help for soloing.  But also, when it's on the MT, we receive no credit for the amount of damage prevented.</p><p>Of course if they did credit us for the Unyielding Benediction line, they would want the spell to take mitigation into account...as right now the spell does not take any mitigation into account.   You can easily test this by having it on yourself....fight some groups of grey mobs..and you will see when the spell absorbs damage...it absorbs a lot more then the greys could possibly hit your for.</p><p> </p><p>SO, in summary...our wards aren't logged.  And this is a big oversight on SoE part, not just for us...but our Shaman Brethren. </p>

[SG_01]

<div>I would like to add that our reverence is not logged at all atm...</div>

[Blast2hell]

<div></div>yeah good point, that spell doesn't show up anywhere at all that I can see...it just does it's thing.  I'm thinking it also causes no hate gain by caster or target.

[jt1369w]

<div></div><div>Tghe only suggestion i have is get rid of all these pacify crap. Add more heals preferably a HOT or maybe add HOT to the end of direct heals circa wardens. Also decrease recast timers of heals. DPS doesnt matter, neither does utility, im a healer not a soloer. Also a group cure for all ailments would be outstanding, thats healer utility. More buffs would be great too. A new heal line. Anythign that would help me heal better unlike a pacify spell which frankly no one cares about, proof is the amount of master 1's on the quenos broker that are templar pacifies. Please fix the class soon, or I'm gone. </div>

[Kendricke]

<div></div><p>Per Live Update 21:</p><blockquote dir="ltr"><p>Templar changes:- The damage and power cost has increased for the Smite spell line.- The damage and power cost has increased for the Light Strike spell line.- Combative Faith's damage has increased.- The reuse timer for Beams of Faith has been reduced.- Reverence can now be cast on raid members.- Sanctuary's duration is now determined by the quality tier of the spell. The Master I version is required to achieve the full duration.</p></blockquote><p>I'll be updating at once.</p><p> </p>

[Kendricke]

<div></div>Updated

[rtoub]

<div></div>Last time I checked Reverence and Wards are not parsing.  I would really like to see how much Reverence is healing for.  For wards the amount isn't as critical as seeing it actually work.  It would help to see the ward blocking damage so we know it is worth casting.  I do see it regenerating if I get hit but no message for wards on other people.

[Jida]

Soothe is fixed (doesnt proc on hostle spells).. someone have a chance to test it yet?<div></div>

[Kendricke]

<div>Updated again this morning. </div>

[AzraelAzgard]

<div></div><p>Emergency spells not scaling sufficently.</p><p>Salvation scales nicely because it gets upgraded versions.</p><p>But Radiance and Benefaction are very underpowered. At lvl 70 their heal values are basically half of Ad3 reactives...</p><p>Basically means they dont do much at all to help unless your tank is against a solo mob =/</p>

[Kendricke]

<P>Changes in Test Update 23 as of now:</P> <P> </P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** Combat ***<BR></FONT>Templar:<BR></STRONG>- Reverence's casting time has been reduced to 1 second and its power cost has been lowered.<BR>- Detect Evil will now work properly.</P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** Achievements ***<BR></FONT></STRONG>- Cleric: Divine Recovery's casting speed benefit has been changed to 50% instead of 100%.</P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** User Interface ***<BR></FONT></STRONG>- Ward text will now be sent to everyone nearby and can now be logged similar to other heals.<BR>- Damage remaining on a ward will now display in the effects and maintained window giving you an idea of when they will expire.<BR>- Reactives, poisons and other limited proc number spells will display the amount remaining in the maintained window.<BR></P>

[Reav]

<DIV>I was informed by a fellow Templar last night that Cure: Resolve does not upgrade, it shows it being an app I but is not in any of the crafting books. I checked mine at level 60 and it has not updated either. The single target cures have, just not that group one.</DIV>

[SG_01]

It does have upgrades in the next tiers, but the fact that it's not in the crafting books seems odd. I know I've seen Adept Is of it at the very least...

[quasigenx]

<div><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote:<div></div><p><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** User Interface ***</font></strong>- Reactives, poisons and other limited proc number spells will display the amount remaining in the maintained window.</p><hr></blockquote>That is unbelievably cool. I can't wait. Anyone know if it's a tooltip or an always up?</div>

[Timaarit]

<blockquote><hr>quasigenx wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote:<div></div><p><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** User Interface ***</font></strong>- Reactives, poisons and other limited proc number spells will display the amount remaining in the maintained window.</p><hr></blockquote>That is unbelievably cool. I can't wait. Anyone know if it's a tooltip or an always up?</div><hr></blockquote>Both reactives show time remaining as always up. Single target reactive shows amount of procs left as tooltip, group reactive does not show them at all.<div></div>

[Kendricke]

Updated to include bug regarding mitigation buffs not stacking correct, per <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=13&message.id=25234&jump=true#M25234" target=_blank>this thread</A>.

[Lord of Endor]

<P>Wisdom Achievement Line:</P> <P>Protection from Undead</P> <P>Does not work as the spell description explains. All attacks absorbed 1000 times. I have tested this over and over and over and....</P> <P>Anyhow...  </P> <P>It does absorb some but not 1000 and surely not as the spell description suggests... It appears that melee damage from undead is not being absorbed. I believe "ALL" should mean "ALL".</P> <P>I have tested this on raids and on solo mobs and on heroic mobs. Raids it was only absorbing mybe 30-40% of the attacks... and not for the entire duration of 16 seconds.</P> <P>On solo mobs absorbing 50% all melee was getting thru. Same for Heroics.</P> <P> </P> <P>Please SOE fix this... If I am gonna blow 8 Ach pts on a spell that gives immunity for 16 seconds from a specific mob type I expect it to work.</P> <P> </P>

[Lord of Endor]

<P>For example:</P> <P>If I cast Protection from Undead in Lyceumm of Abhorrence on the pull of Gnillaw the Demented his four adds(the DRoags) all are undead and should cause no damage to MT less the damage would be in excess of 50% of his health total....</P> <P> </P> <P>However, they were knocking him round 800-1200 each melee strike, through out the entire buff. The MT was definitely in range because he was getting the message that he was being protected from undead but it was not absorbing the melee damage from the Droags.</P>

[MadisonPark]

Sanctuary doesn't protect the group from charm effects, as it should.

[Kendricke]

Updated

[Formangenavn]

<P>I do not have a cleric but I hope everyone can make suggestions for improvements. This is regarding avoidance tanks and aoe. Grp and single target reactive heals for much the same every tick. There is no reason why they should though. Average numbers on grp reactive is around 450 per tick I think (not that important) and 430 for single target reactive at add3. 450 x 9 = 4050 hp healed. Why not just have 6 ticks? This would be positive in many ways. Every tick would be for 675, but the spell would heal for the same overall, so no balancing in regard to other healers would be needed. It would make this spell better at keeping an avoidance tank up, since he is hit less often but for more (less ticks, but heals for more) and it would be a better protection vs big aoe (one aoe, everyone healed for 675 instead of 450). Not better in MT grp on raid (since MT will use ticks), but probably better in the 3 other grps. 6 ticks was obviously used since one grp can contain 6 people, but could be made even less if the need for bigger ticks where needed.</P> <P>This might have been suggested a thousand times already, and if it has I appologize for invading this post. </P>

[Timaarit]

<div></div>Well, we now have a nearly useless skill called Soothe. Just try using that on an incoming roamer when there are adds nearby. It is not a pretty sight with new social aggro. Ok, it will only go bad if it gets resisted... <div></div><p>Message Edited by Timaarit on <span class=date_text>07-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:06 PM</span>

[DmZB]

<P></P> <HR> Kendricke wrote: <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ccffff>More shield types</FONT><BR></STRONG>Templars could be able to use round or kite shields instead of just bucklers.  As it currently stands, all priests may use bucklers, though priests may use heavier armors.  Shields assist with avoidance which would give more defensive Templars a better chance in toe-to-toe melee combat (which we're in more frequently than other <FONT color=#ff0000><EM>Templars</EM></FONT> since we don't have roots or snares to rely upon).</P> <HR> Was this supposed to be Priests?

[quetzaqotl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DmZBaT wrote:<BR> <P></P> <HR> Kendricke wrote: <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ccffff>More shield types</FONT><BR></STRONG>Templars could be able to use round or kite shields instead of just bucklers.  As it currently stands, all priests may use bucklers, though priests may use heavier armors.  Shields assist with avoidance which would give more defensive Templars a better chance in toe-to-toe melee combat (which we're in more frequently than other <FONT color=#ff0000><EM>Templars</EM></FONT> since we don't have roots or snares to rely upon).</P> <HR> Was this supposed to be Priests?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>last part is kinda bogus too as snare isnt very useful for us druids to prevend going toe to toe wardens have roots furies go toe to toe just as much as templars, if our snare was better and our dmg spells faster then yes Id agree.</P> <P> </P>

[AngusMcLachlan]

<cite>Timaarit wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, we now have a nearly useless skill called Soothe. Just try using that on an incoming roamer when there are adds nearby. It is not apretty sight with new social aggro.Ok, it will only go bad if it gets resisted...</blockquote>But if it dosen't get resisted, it's probably one of the best spells.  Presuming no resists (plus i upgraded mine by 5 points for the in group deaggro), you're guaranteed single pulls, you can soothe a mob and walk right up (within a few inches) and harvest that shiny at his feet, and you can go around harvesting nodes next to mobs with no aggro.  PUll up your pet if you get hit, and throw your awestruck or use your shield bash to mez them while you finish harvesting before getting out of there (or just drop your tinker fein death and keep going).