Reverence vs. Back Into the Fray

[bigmak20]

There's another thread with a general discussion on this that is getting too cluttered with other stuff so putting this in it's own thread -- Someone has drawn the comparison that Templar's get the spell "Reverence" and Furies get the spell "Back into the Fray". Reverence = Health returned for Power Burned. Back into the Fray = Very short cast Big Heal when target is less then 50%. Let's discuss what these spells DO ----- <span>Reverence gives health pts for power used -- so casting it on a Melee class MT is going to heal them?  About the only thing a good MT is "casting" is a taunt.  Are you unaware taunts don't consume much power?  How in HELL is a hp for power spell supposed to help heal an MT? It'll be miniscule I promise you no one will notice you wasted time and power casting it -- and good thing to or they'd be cussing you out for not doing something better with your mana. When to use reverence?  1) mana burning class (caster).  Now; caster gets aggro -- apparently you weren't aware those robe wearers die in two hits?  LOL.  Hey Caster!!!!  I put reverence on you!!!! Cast some spells really quick to heal yourself!!!!  HEY GET UP!!!! DON'T LIE THERE!!!! HEAL YOURSELF!!! That is wrong on so many many levels and here is the most obvious 1) you have to cast it (1.5sec) and 2) the target has to cast a really big mana burning spell for it to matter... HEY THEY'RE DEAD BY THEN.... do I have to spell this out is this really that difficult for ppl to get???? don't be dense. ROFL And let's talk numbers just a little but... how much mana does the target have to burn to get .. what... 1400pts of healing?  Let me see... how many spells are there that burn 1000 mana (140% hp return for a 1400pt heal) and if there are (I doubt it) how long do they take to cast ON TOP OF casting Reverence AND having the target notice you've cast it. Wrong on so many levels -- ... good god this is sad... when the caster gets aggro are they thinking "lay off the casting to drop aggro" or are they thinking "cast the biggest baddest nuke I have to save my butt with a little tiny power to health heal"... !!! [Removed for Content] ARE YOU THINKING SOE? <b> Reverence = Delete from Hotbar</b> Compare that to a huge heal when someone drops under 50%.  No comparison. </span> Reverence is another slap in the face of templar "utility".  Just a name other priests can say we acutally have "utility" and ignore how screwed up SOE is making this class.

[SenorPhrog]

Wow.   One thread is getting into a little flamefest so you create a whole other thread with intelligent statements as: "Reverence is another slap in the face of templar "utility".  Just a name other priests can say we acutally have "utility" and ignore how screwed up SOE is making this class." I can't imagine why your posts get edited so often. Maybe next we can compare Warring Conviction to Bolt of Storms. <div></div>

[bigmak20]

<P>**REMOVED INAPPROPRIATE COMMENTS**</FONT></P><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>11-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:33 PM</span>

[Spite]

<P>WOW. Another flame with no content from RadarX.</P> <P> </P> <P>The two spells are significantly different and any person that tries to use them in the same context is not playing their characters well. No i do not use Reverence, and yes Return is an awsome spell.</P>

[SenorPhrog]

<span><blockquote><hr>bigmak2010 wrote:I did not draw the initial comparison Radar.  I'm merely pointing out how ludicrous it is.  Thanks for agreeing our high level special utility "heal" is worthless too.  There's not much you agree with Templars about. <hr></blockquote>You'd be suprised what I agree about with the Templars that can rationally state their positions.   We aren't even disagreeing that its ridiculous to compare the two spells because it is.  I'm just pointing out why your posts are edited.</span><div></div>

[bdlarmor]

The only time i've been tempted to use Reverence is to cast it on myself while I'm spamming heals on the MT. Then it helps offset raid ae damage, barrage, etc. Still makes it a very niche spell, but thats about the only use i could come up with for it.

[SenorPhrog]

<span><blockquote><hr>FiftyK wrote:<div></div> <p>WOW. Another flame with no content from RadarX.</p> <p>The two spells are significantly different and any person that tries to use them in the same context is not playing their characters well. No i do not use Reverence, and yes Return is an awsome spell.</p><hr></blockquote>There was enough content in my post to get my point across, not that I should be taking lessons from you Mr. One Statement.  Nice comparison.   The first step in a brilliant arguement is to tell people they aren't playing their classes right.   The sad part is I don't even disagree with you but since you asked me to expound, I will. Do I think that Reverencel is "broken" or "useless?"  No, not at all.   Do I think its very situational?  Yes I do.  I haven't found a ton of use for it outside of when I've got a Monk tanking for me.  Their power usage is high, so their heals are high.   Useless means it has no utility in any situation at all.  I think thats false.   Is there something they could do to make this useful in other situations?  Honestly?  I don't really know.   Either way, thank you for your response but please actually provide content next time yourself if you are going to insult mine. </span><div></div>

[Salastine]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> bigmak2010 wrote:<BR><BR><SPAN>Reverence gives health pts for power used -- so casting it on a Melee class MT is going to heal them?  About the only thing a good MT is "casting" is a taunt.  <BR><BR>Are you unaware taunts don't consume much power?  How in HELL is a hp for power spell supposed to help heal an MT?<BR><BR></SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Are you, sir, aware than a good MT is casting a HECK of a lot more than a taunt?  In a raid, a "good" MT balances their power bar with the health of the mob, and essentially uses every agro generating device at their disposal to kill an encounter just before running out of power.  In a group, the MT is almost always the one with the lowest power bar from trying to keep agro from DPS classes.  I would argue that tanks use more power than anybody in holding consistant agro, and Reverance would be more effective on them than anyone else.</DIV>

[bigmak20]

lol Reverence vs. Back Into the Fray. Back Into the Fray = Big Heal Short Cast Time vs Reverence = Short Cast Time Health Returned for Power Burned. The context of the comparison was saving someone from burst dmg.

[kcirrot]

So what do you want? 

[bigmak20]

Was just pointing out the comparison was not a good one.  Compared to Back Into the Fray --  Reverence is a bad joke.  There's limited applicabilty of Reverence if any.  It's another lame "utility" spell for which we give up a lot for nothing.

[Mor]

As I said in the other thread on the exact same subject, I think the problem here is that you're comparing the wrong spells.  I would put Fray in comparison to Sanctuary.  Yes, they do different things.  However each is unique to the class and very powerful.  I think the idea was to have one unique, powerful spell for each priest class, although some don't quite measure up (and in some cases, they fall down miserably). <div></div>

[kcirrot]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> bigmak2010 wrote:<BR>Was just pointing out the comparison was not a good one.  Compared to Back Into the Fray --  Reverence is a bad joke.  There's limited applicabilty of Reverence if any.  It's another lame "utility" spell for which we give up a lot for nothing.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>So this is just complaining then?   I mean, OK, let's say I agree with you.  What do we do about it.  There seems to be several options:</P> <P> </P> <P>1.  Buff Reverence</P> <P>2. Nerf Back Into the Fray</P> <P>3. Buff both but buff Reverance more</P> <P>4. Nerf both but nerf Back Into the Fray more</P> <P>5. Do nothing</P> <P>6. Provide Bigmak2010 (and any other willing Templar) with a Fury equal in level to their Templar. [This is serious BTW]</P> <P> </P> <P>So what do you want?  You've been posting about Templars v. Furies since LU13.  Let's just get it out on the table, what do you want to have happen?  I fully support giving Templars more fun and utility.  I don't have any ideas about how to do that because Templars are a pretty general concept unlike Furies which have a lot of conceptual ideas that could be added.</P> <P>One big utility that I think would be great for Templars would be if they continued the Create food/drink line.  Perhaps give their food some drawbacks (Say like a 15 min. duration, basically, half of store bought) with the tiers being better quality.  That seems very cleric like and would be a big benefit on a long grind and save everyone money.</P> <P>This is one Fury that will agree that you have a point about utility.  Templars are boring.  They need more spice, more spells that make people say, "Let's get a Templar" or at least say, "Cool. A templar. Now we have X ability" when they invite one.  I remember what it was like when people took me on as their last chance healer and I don't wish that on any other class.  I really think you would get more traction with coming up with ideas for your class instead of continually ragging on Furies.</P>

[Spag]

<P>I have to agree with you guys here Reverence is in no way a good comparison to BitF.  Reverence does not seem to be intended to be a spell to deal with burst damage, but as a spell to further increase HP/s.  Though from the look of it, it does need some adjusting, such as longer duration, less power to cast, or larger multiplier on the heal, or a combination there of</P> <P>Something like this might be good.</P> <P>Power:100<BR>Duration: 20s<BR>Heals for 200% of power used</P> <P>Or better yet, and I think you would like this one.  Have it stay the same setup as is now (maybe 20 sec duration), except convert the power used by the <STRONG>entire group</STRONG> to a 140% power to heal for the target.  This I think would make it a nice spell.</P> <P>What do you guys think?</P>

[quetzaqotl]

<P>What is it with you guys to keep comparing templars with furies getting sick and tired of it geez guys pick on another class please.</P> <P>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] compare your reverance with some other ancient spell and tell everyone how much it sucks compared to that ohh wait COH is so much cooler than reverance [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]!!!</P> <P>Geezus you guys need to back off If you want to compare lets compare full scale here post every spell you have and lets compare which spell beats the other spell but I guess all fury spells are [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing great and all templar spells are borked n broken.</P> <P>This is all flamebait and is going to be locked in some days max, another thread full of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</P> <DIV>threads like these make me think that maybe they need to rename the templar boards to: "tha crapper" </DIV> <DIV>(Im sorry if I offended anyone trying to post anything worthwile but theres an abundance of crap around and well I get frustrated)</DIV><p>Message Edited by quetzaqotl on <span class=date_text>11-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:54 PM</span>

[Skydude]

<DIV>LOL what your going through is exactly what everyone put us through when we were Gods. I don't have the answer and I'm thinking the DEVs obviously don't either, but your simply overpowered as of right now as a priest class that can deal sufficient damage and can heal almost as well and in some cases better than most priest classes. A Fury in no way should be better than a Warden healing when you have the DPS edge, but you like that edge and understandably don't want to give it up and noone here I'm sure blames you for it. Its going to come with other priest classes getting a boost to either DPS or utility or the Fury class will get a nerf. Either way a balance will be in order and you feel those impending footsteps of doom. </DIV> <DIV>If you get so worked up about this forum, then why even come here and add your drama?</DIV>

[Skydude]

<DIV>OMG I just looked at how many posts Radar has. LOL now that is funny! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[quetzaqotl]

<P>"cause Im a troll dont you know the big ol flamin people stalkin troll who so often derails the oh so important threads on these boards cause well I just like to."</P> <P>Guess thats what some of you would like to hear or expect but I dont care lol maybe you should investigate more before you claim that furies are overpowered were in no way as overpowered as templars were compared to how you are now as we were pre cu haha yeah I mean you can 't compare your supposed broken ness with our broken ness pre cu oh wait Im sorry did I just say I want the templars to go thru the pain furies did? I should really go back to my boards I guess Im sorry.</P> <P>Furies arent overpowered imo (but yeah Im a fury [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] do I know eh i dont have an alt lvl 50+ of all classes so I cant really say anything about another class other than my own) some of you guys' spells need a little love but why do you have to drag furies in every time? we never dragged templars in by the horns on EVERY thread like you guys do.</P> <P>youre creating your own mass hysteria here with the big bad furies being the devil incarnated lol ah well go ahead Ill just stand back and enjoy the show (cause im a troll remember I like to do that it was said on that one page with all the interesting thingies and stuff).</P> <P> </P> <DIV>ps. did you hear the new a fury destroyed Tokyo</DIV><p>Message Edited by quetzaqotl on <span class=date_text>11-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:25 PM</span>

[SenorPhrog]

<span><blockquote><hr>Skydude wrote:<div>OMG I just looked at how many posts Radar has. LOL now that is funny! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote>Its right under my name....not that hard to see.  Posting in Non Gameplay enough gets your post count high.  I've never really been watching or cared too much about it.  </span><div></div>

[SenorPhrog]

<span><blockquote><hr>quetzaqotl wrote:<div></div> <p> </p> <p>Furies arent overpowered imo (but yeah Im a fury [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] do I know eh i dont have an alt lvl 50+ of all classes so I cant really say anything about another class other than my own) some of you guys' spells need a little love but why do you have to drag furies in every time? we never dragged templars in by the horns on EVERY thread like you guys do.</p>Message Edited by quetzaqotl on <span class="date_text">11-14-2005</span> <span class="time_text">04:25 PM</span> <hr></blockquote>You know its statements like this that are drumming up so much drama around here.   I'm sorry your class is getting complained about but you can really deal with it two ways.   First you can ignore it which since I'm not much on ignoring isn't really my top choice.  Second,  you can come over bashing everyone and create more tensions.   Now I've chosen number one basically in reference to Furies. Even though I've got one I've yet to post over on your forums there despite how temping its been.  What is the big deal if people are complaining about your class?  Who cares?  Are the devs really going to listen to a few posters who don't even play Furies?   </span><div></div>

[Dalchar]

<DIV>/scratches head</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is rather apples to oranges to try and compare the two spells themselves as they're really drastically different.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>About the only comparison that could be made is that one's rather fabulous and the other needs something altered to make it fabulous, Spagma's suggestion of it drawing on the entire group's power used rather than just the target to heal the target would seem far more appropriate, or even based on your own power use... use your nukes/debuffs/heals to heal <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> or every spell you cast causes a set heal... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A lot of the ancient spells from several classes look like they could use some attention, I'll give you that though.  But pointing at a class who's ancient spell they seem to have gotten correct and ranting about it, probably isn't the best route.  "BITF is a wonderful spell, I'd like to see Reverence match it's usefulness and creativity.  I think it'd be a good idea to alter it like this..." has a much better constructive, and all around nice ring to it than "THOSE FURIES OMGNOWAYWTF I CAN'T BELIEVE WE GOT HOSED AGAIN!!!!111!onehundredeleven!!1" </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another idea is that they might have given certain abilities based on what the classes needed.  I can soundly say that without BITF, as a sole healer in a group, there's many 1-group encounters (noteably, most named encounters) that I'd not be able to heal a group at all, Poet's Palace is a good example of this.  Without BITF, I couldn't get the group past the second floor, as heals are too small no matter how fast the recast is, and with no way to reduce incoming damage, the tank gets soundly walloped on while I spam every heal in the arsenal.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At the same time I can understand them trying to be creative, which Reverence kinda is, but lacks the punch to make it a great spell versus a semi-lame more situational spell.  The same can be said for Tunare's Watch that the Wardens obtained at 52.... good, neat, different unique idea, but needs a leg up to be effective and shine.</DIV>

[Shennr]

<P>I am sorry but I usually try not to post in other classes boards.</P> <P>I will have to say that I agree with the Templars that there needs to be improvement with their spells. I think that they are just trying to find some spells to compare to in setting a standard for what priest spells should be like.  </P> <P>What if Reverance had an additional ability instead of just healing when power is used. Such as additional Mitigation for the duration of the spell.  Or change the spell completely and oh say take out the healing effect and just have the spell prevent power consumptions on any detrimental spells casted by the target for the duration of the spell. This would add lots of utility and flavorability in any group of a raid or experience group.</P>

[Xerxess]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Morie wrote:<BR>As I said in the other thread on the exact same subject, I think the problem here is that you're comparing the wrong spells.  I would put Fray in comparison to Sanctuary.  Yes, they do different things.  However each is unique to the class and very powerful.  I think the idea was to have one unique, powerful spell for each priest class, although some don't quite measure up (and in some cases, they fall down miserably).<BR><BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>BitF and Reverence are both lvl 52 ancient spells...you can't compare BitF with a lvl 55 templar spell say its underpowered. Cause it should be, BitF is 3 lvls lower then Sanctuary.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The point is you guys get a much better spell that is useful at 52 then what we get. Yours does a short burst of healing ours does basically nothing. It only lasts 30 secs on a target so that tank better burn some serious mana in 30 secs for him to be healed with the sell. I don't see to many guardians and Zerker or any tanks burning lots of mana in 30 secs to feel the effects of this spell. Now a caster would feel it but if a critter slaps a caster they usaully die in 2 or 3 hits not enough time to get off another spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also Radar...you can't compare Warring Conviction with Bolt of storms...those 2 spells do totally different things. One is a dot and the other is a DD atleast these 2 spells do the same thing and thats heal or lack there of. =P</DIV>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>quetzaqotl wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>What is it with you guys to keep comparing templars with furies getting sick and tired of it geez guys pick on another class please.</p><hr></blockquote>Because furies are how healer should work. And templars in particular have been getting the low end for far too many things.</span><div></div>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>quetzaqotl wrote:<div></div> <p>"cause Im a troll dont you know the big ol flamin people stalkin troll who so often derails the oh so important threads on these boards cause well I just like to."</p><hr></blockquote>How nice for you to finally admit that.</span><div></div>

[Dalchar]

<span><blockquote><hr>Xerxess wrote: <div> </div> <div>Also Radar...you can't compare Warring Conviction with Bolt of storms...those 2 spells do totally different things. One is a dot and the other is a DD atleast these 2 spells do the same thing and thats heal or lack there of. =P</div><hr></blockquote> That's the point.  You can't really compare BITF and Reverence anymore than WC and BOS.  They both heal and they both do damage, why not compare?  Because the way they function is very different.  Arguably you could compare most every spell/art in the game... Everything either 1. prevents damage (stun, stifle, mez, pacify), 2. Heals, 3. does damage 4. buffs 5. debuffs and 6. deals with hate gain/loss.  Where the ancient spells are concerned, I'm guessing comparing L52 to L52 across the board isn't the way to do it, as there's only 3 ancient spells per class, and they're all meant to add something relatively different to each.  I would say it's more appropriate to compare all ancient spells's quality/usefullness to one another rather than just zero in on a specific one, as one person's 58 or 55 may be lame as what someone else got at 52.</span><div></div>

[quetzaqotl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> quetzaqotl wrote:<BR> <P>"cause Im a troll dont you know the big ol flamin people stalkin troll who so often derails the oh so important threads on these boards cause well I just like to."</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>How nice for you to finally admit that.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ohhh i really didnt see that one comming haha Im glad I enabled you to make a (easy) joke Tim /claps hands hurray to you finally made a jokeroo!</P> <P>Woohoo next time ill increase the difficulty lvl and then maybe other people will think how clever you are lol but you got a long way to go... </P> <P>+ /agree to the poster above me as I said before taking one spell out of context and compare it with any spell is kinda icky.</P><p>Message Edited by quetzaqotl on <span class=date_text>11-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:43 AM</span>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>quetzaqotl wrote:<div></div> Ohhh i really didnt see that one comming haha Im glad I enabled you to make a (easy) joke Tim /claps hands hurray to you finally made a jokeroo! <p>Woohoo next time ill increase the difficulty lvl and then maybe other people will think how clever you are lol but you got a long way to go... </p><hr></blockquote>Hahaa like you'd know even what a jokeroo is. And go ahead and 'increase the difficulty', I am sure your superior intelligence will overcome mine.</span><div></div>

[Suite]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Radar-X wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> bigmak2010 wrote:<BR>I did not draw the initial comparison Radar.  I'm merely pointing out how ludicrous it is.  Thanks for agreeing our high level special utility "heal" is worthless too.  There's not much you agree with Templars about.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You'd be suprised what I agree about with the Templars that can rationally state their positions.   We aren't even disagreeing that its ridiculous to compare the two spells because it is.  I'm just pointing out why your posts are edited.<BR></SPAN> <P><BR></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ccffcc>I think a lot of us who are normally pretty rational people are so fed up with the templar class and our attempts to have a constructive dialogue on these forums that we are behaving in a "cranky" manner (to use someone else's word). The OP's point is EXCELLENT, so let's stick with it. I've had some of my posts edited, too, and I write for a living now. Go figure. :smileytongue:</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ccffcc>One person on these forums consistently derails nearly every good thread by driving the train on a track that ends with himself. This is endlessly annoying and so far there's not a darn thing anyone can do about it. That's enough reason for the occasional vent, as is the case here.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ccffcc>I think a rant thread would be great, except it, too, would be locked.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ccffcc>Sigh.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ccffcc>Suite</FONT></P> <P><IMG src="http://img284.imageshack.us/img284/6175/eliana054qz.jpg"></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"><BR></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Xerxess]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dalcharis wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xerxess wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also Radar...you can't compare Warring Conviction with Bolt of storms...those 2 spells do totally different things. One is a dot and the other is a DD atleast these 2 spells do the same thing and thats heal or lack there of. =P</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That's the point.  You can't really compare BITF and Reverence anymore than WC and BOS.  They both heal and they both do damage, why not compare?  Because the way they function is very different.  Arguably you could compare most every spell/art in the game... Everything either 1. prevents damage (stun, stifle, mez, pacify), 2. Heals, 3. does damage 4. buffs 5. debuffs and 6. deals with hate gain/loss.  Where the ancient spells are concerned, I'm guessing comparing L52 to L52 across the board isn't the way to do it, as there's only 3 ancient spells per class, and they're all meant to add something relatively different to each.  I would say it's more appropriate to compare all ancient spells's quality/usefullness to one another rather than just zero in on a specific one, as one person's 58 or 55 may be lame as what someone else got at 52.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yes you can...if you want we can compare all priests Ancient spells for lvl to lvl. But comparing DoT to a DD...but ok...our DoT does low dmg and only lasts 4 secs...you can do high dmg in 1 burst. Once our dot is done the dmg will be around 600-700 dmg but your DD will prolly be around 900-1000?(just guessing) </P> <P>Reverence and BiTF are suppose to be heal spells to keep groups alive. HEAL SPELLS!! not DoTs and DDs...if you wanna compare DDs lets our 52 DD to your 51 DD...Yours does more dmg...go figure</P> <P>Anyways Your heal is a way better tool not only for the Templar class but most likely for other Priest classes as well. Its just its kinda shocking that we get a weak heal spell with all of other supposed God Like healing spells. Reverence doesn't need to do the same thing BiTF does but it does need to be tuned to better our class.<BR></P>

[Timaarit]

I removed Reverence from my templars hotbar, that is its usefulness. Not worth casting it. Sad this is that if I want to heal someone that grabbed aggro from mt, I need to stun the attacker and then heal. My heals are that 'fast', even my stun is faster to cast. <div></div>

[Zapo]

<P>We should stop those comparisons to Furies, they don't bring us (templars) any further and those threads just become flame bait (and yes, I think templars need more dps <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).</P> <P>On Reverence:</P> <P>- Usefull on MT ? Hmm, not really, MT needs our full attention. If he gets significant damage this spell won't help. If the MT is fine anyway why cast it ? You can cast it on him in uncriticall situation but just if you have nothing left to cast.</P> <P>- Usefull on casters ? Ok, I think we all agree here. If a caster gets hit you better hurry to cast direct heals/stuns fast or you have a dead caster. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>- Usefull on Off Tanks, Scouts etc. ?  If such a person gets one hit and MT gets back aggro after that you can cast reverance on him and it might help to bring him up again. But who cares ? MT has aggro again and the healing it does is not siginicant. You might be better of using a direct heal or some of our other spells than reverance. If the off tank/scout gets multiple hits you need bigger heals/regens to help him out.</P> <P>So, all in all, I have to aggree, Reverance has no real use. You can use it as a minor utility in rare situations, but if you don't no one will recognize and it won't hurt. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <p>Message Edited by Anthur on <span class=date_text>11-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:16 AM</span>

[KingOfF00LS]

<span><blockquote><hr>quetzaqotl wrote:<div></div> Furies arent overpowered imo<hr></blockquote>Then you shouldn't have a problem with Templars wanting to be balanced against them.  So where's the beef? </span><div></div>

[Bhee]

Templars will be fixed as soon as some developer starts playing one <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - at present I feel like garbage dump <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>