Frustration!!!

[sabrexlan]

<DIV>Come on guys this getting crazy. Im a level 55 templar. I spend 3 hours LFG in PoF killing lvl 51 solo mobs painfully slowly. In 3 hours I cant remove the vitality from the previous night! Grouping is dying. I then go to move to the next spot of the quest and I walk into the Sunstrider lvl 55 heroic named mob. Hits me for 1500, 800, 1500 instantly, so I sprint and run back to the guards like a lvl 1 only to turn around to watch a lvl 55 wizard root the mob and then solo it down to zero. Where is this game heading when healers cant get groups and a handful of dps class solo they way to 60? The maths of the solo and group game is dominated by output dps and very little else. Raiding is a little better with a real need for healing but how do you get healers up to lvls for raiding these days? What was the point of the CU? You had 6 or so years to learn for EQ1 and implement the best. What I see isnt the best. You have consistently opted for the easy road to minimise CS support and dumbed down the content. Where are all the checks and balances to avoid class dominance? Summoning mobs, gating mobs, dungeons needing CC? Most classes in EQ1 at least had some defensive tatics ie root, gate, snare, mem blur, mez, stun, fear. Templars have the lvl 1 defensive buff .... sprint. For my class at least the CU isnt working. Templars are great healers when we get groups but pressing 3 icons repeatively when the recycle lets you isnt fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What you should have done in the CU was this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1/ Bring back class interdependence. Dps classes should need healers and tanks for heroic content and above.</DIV> <DIV>2/ Give mobs more behaviour like gating, summoning, banishing whatever. Make the fights different not carbon copies. Make stuning, stiffling, bashing etc meaningful and required at the right moment so as to be useful in combat rather than just a smallish dps reduction.</DIV> <DIV>3/ Chuck out most of the linked encounters and bring back pulling of solos and group agro especially in dungeons. I cant really think of a instance which feels any different from any other in terms of pulling difficulty</DIV> <DIV>4/ Chuck out most of the recycle times on spells. Let people cast WHEN they want to. If you need to limit dps or hps do it via cast time. Have a recycle on HOs but not on the standard spells of mages and healers. Let mana be the limit rather than the recycle acting as the developers dead hand slowing the fight or stopping the heals.</DIV> <DIV>5/ Fix the risk versus reward, fun versus frustration of some classes. Why did the CU deliver uber classes and classes like the templar which are 1 trick ponies. This is not necessarily problem of utility but each class if you are going to force us to solo needs offensive and defensive skills not this arbitrary dps tiers stuff. If templars must solo to quest then give us similar solo dps of most other classes. </DIV><p>Message Edited by sabrexlanys on <span class=date_text>11-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:43 AM</span>

[rollando]

<P>I've just posted that on my guild forums ...<BR></P> <P> It's a bit complicated to explain the templar issue. It has to do with the fun playing the game, and fun is not something mathematics can parse.<BR><BR> I'll try to explain what disappoints me alot at the moment, and why I am among the ones who are not interested in the quest content of the game anymore.<BR><BR> Let's start with the role we still shine in challenging content : healing a group.<BR>  We still have very powerful tools ( many unique ones ) to keep a group alive.<BR>  In a group with a fast meleer, I'll place Glory of Combat on him, and it's often enough to keep the group alive, without extra healing. ( when buffed with this, you have a chance to proc a 327 ( adept1 ) group heal every time you heal the mob.<BR> After an evening in a group where I have to heal alot and if nobody has died ( I am allowed to 40 % casualties on wizards / warlocks / rangers  <IMG src="http://ascendedheroes.guildportal.com/Faces/face_grin.gif"><IMG src="http://ascendedheroes.guildportal.com/Faces/face_grin.gif"> ), I do feel I have achieved something.<BR><BR> The ugly part of the class is in all other situations. Let's see why.<BR><BR> Many quest paths are designed to be soloed, eg the quests from the entrance NPC's in the Sinking Sands.<BR>A templar CAN kill the required mobs solo, even if he is not very well equipped.<BR> But, what is the scenario of such a fight ? Pull with Mark of kings ( divine debuff - marked mob procs a small group heal over time on the group ), trigger HO, DoT - sorry ... interrupt, reDoT, nuke - ah no, interrupt, ah crap, HO is finished - retrigger HO - ah, I'm yellow now,  cast reactive - DoT finished, recasting - oops, interrupt ...<BR>Oh, the mob will die eventually ... after 75 seconds if he is a non undead arrow down blue.<BR> Of course, if I get an add,  it's time to run ... that is if I am not stunned !<BR> After 3-4 fights, I am so bored that I just log in anger. of course, grouped blue solo mobs are undoable because of the non-stop interrupts.<BR><BR>So, you'll tell me : ask somebody else to help on these quests ? XXX has offered me her help countless times, so has YYY, so has ZZZ...<BR>But, in such a situation, I just have to watch the person helping me kill the mobs ( and actually play the game !! ) while I have nothing at all to do : usually, it'll take less time for the mob to die than the cast time of my fastest spell ... <BR>I've even put autofollow on once, and started working for my students - it hasn't changed at all how well my partner was performing - the only ones who were surprised were the students when I brought them some extra work <IMG src="http://ascendedheroes.guildportal.com/Faces/face_grin.gif"><BR>Questing groups killing easy mobs are just as boring : no healing to do, no contribution to DPS - well, I'm advancing FAST in the 'sword of truth' books ( in English, since the tome I am at isn't translated yet ), but  I do not pay an EQ2 suscribtion to read books !<BR><BR> So, the only situation I really play the game is when I heal in a challenging situation ( powerful mobs - raids ). This is why I now stick to these situations...  </P>

[ADW123]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>rollando wrote:<BR><BR>A templar CAN kill the required mobs solo, even if he is not very well equipped.<BR> But, what is the scenario of such a fight ? Pull with Mark of kings ( divine debuff - marked mob procs a small group heal over time on the group ), trigger HO, DoT - sorry ... interrupt, reDoT, nuke - ah no, interrupt, ah crap, HO is finished - retrigger HO - ah, I'm yellow now,  cast reactive - DoT finished, recasting - oops, interrupt ...<BR>Oh, the mob will die eventually ... after 75 seconds if he is a non undead arrow down blue.<BR> Of course, if I get an add,  it's time to run ... that is if I am not stunned !<BR> After 3-4 fights, I am so bored that I just log in anger. of course, grouped blue solo mobs are undoable because of the non-stop interrupts.</P> <P></P> <HR> <P>This is exactly how I feel about soloing with a templar. It is the most incredibly painful thing to do in this game. The sheer amount interupts, fizzles, stuns, stifles etc I have to deal with to kill a single mob that provides me with 1/10 of a blue (with vitality) is just such a huge waste of time and effort. I play my ranger and blue down arrow mobs die in 2 ca's. With my templar, it requires me casting (attempting to cast) dozens of spells to finally take a mob down.</P> <P>Frankly I don't think Templars should be a great soloing class... we should be able to do it, but should not pale in comparison to a sorc/summoner/ranger etc. I don't solo much at all though because of how tedious and aggrivating it is to do. If it wasn't so horrible though, I may consider doing it to finish some quests or what not while I look for a group, and feel after 30-40 minutes atleast I've accomplished a little something. As you said though, after a few fights, dealing with all the crap, your just spent...and its easier to just sit afk, while lfg or go play an alt.</P> <P>Curaga<BR>53 Templar<BR>Unrest </P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[AzraelAzgard]

<DIV>You should try and solo undead tbh, there a load along the North Coast in SS or you can go to LT, or if you have Silent access the stuff at the backdoor there is great, triple and double down mobs in an encounter with encounter xp bonus, I made 5%+ an hr there, nothing special but its better than nothing <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[bigmak20]

Agree completely.  Deleted all my quests a couple weeks ago.  Not worth the frustration.  I kept Access, HQs, and those my friends are on since they are nice enough to let me tag along (they sure as hell don't need me).  Was LFG for 3 hrs last night while I harvested.... after 3 hrs the group I was trying to get started took the Fury that logged in.  Found a vanadium I can trade for a pearl.  Woot! If my friends in guild aren't on then I'm outta luck. Started an alt on another server. I've always had a reputation for being one of the best healers in tight situations so that isn't it.  The problem is.... there simply aren't many tight siutations outside raid instances.  If your group is good enough to drop those heroics you are supposed to be fighting (appropriate level content) they fall fast and they don't need healing.  Seems like there's no middle ground.  That's making this game boring for EVERYBODY btw.  Look all around. When a group wants to grind exp or zing thru heroic quests they take a Fury.... that and the Fury can invis them to the instance entrance.  /frustrated LFG:  What's up with this hilarious "medium" or "heavy" load of SOE servers bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?  They appear to have programmed server load to read Load+Two Levels.  Light Load = Heavy Vacated = Medium

[Gcha]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> bigmak2010 wrote:<BR><BR>LFG:  What's up with this hilarious "medium" or "heavy" load of SOE servers bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?  They appear to have programmed server load to read Load+Two Levels.  <BR><BR>Light Load = Heavy<BR>Vacated = Medium<BR><BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>That's interesting you say that.  A while back I got into a discussion with several people who contended they had done that.  I totally insisted (without any backup) that SOE would never do that.  I really felt they wouldn't.  But people kept arguing that they did.  So I figured, fine, I am going to go do some server counts to prove them wrong.  Well .......... bottom line, the counts I got for alleged "medium" servers turned out to be 300-400 below what I was getting for "light" servers a couple months earlier.  Honestly, I was shocked ... and very disappointed.<BR>

[Blast2hell]

I'm frustrated with some things in the templar class.  Mainly DPS.   I will say some of you are going over the deep-end about a few points, I won't highlight which ones....because I'm sure you guys are confident you can't possibly be wrong.     I have no doubt  that eventually templars will be heard.   Of course, the way our forum is carrying on, maybe they put the templar class on "time-out".

[KingOfF00LS]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rollando wrote:<BR> <P> It's a bit complicated to explain the templar issue. It has to do with the fun playing the game, and fun is not something mathematics can parse.<BR> <BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Indeed, but sadly there will always be those with extremely narrow tunnel vision, unable to see the big picture or anything beyond "omg I can heal 7.298% better than a Fury against this mob!".  The worst part is as long as those people continue to spew silliness it gives justification to SOE to not fix the glaringly obvious problems.</DIV>

[Blast2hell]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KingOfF00LS wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rollando wrote:<BR> <P> It's a bit complicated to explain the templar issue. It has to do with the fun playing the game, and fun is not something mathematics can parse.<BR> <BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Indeed, but sadly there will always be those with extremely narrow tunnel vision, unable to see the big picture or anything beyond "omg I can heal 7.298% better than a Fury against this mob!".  The worst part is as long as those people continue to spew silliness it gives justification to SOE to not fix the glaringly obvious problems.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>this use to be true, but I don't think templars are the best healer hands down anymore.  We are better in certain situations only.  In other situations, other priest can dominate.  Which is the way it should be in regards to healing.  So now they need to balance the other stuff.</P> <P>I'm one of those people that parse heals.  And lately I've seen how the numbers have changed.  And I feel priest healing is well balanced. IMO</P>

[KingOfF00LS]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blast2hell wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KingOfF00LS wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>this use to be true, but I don't think templars are the best healer hands down anymore.  We are better in certain situations only.  In other situations, other priest can dominate.  <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I agree, which is why I worded it the way I did:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"omg I can heal 7.298% better than a Fury against this mob!"</DIV>

[Xaax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> sabrexlanys wrote:<BR> <DIV>Come on guys this getting crazy. Im a level 55 templar. I spend 3 hours LFG in PoF killing lvl 51 solo mobs painfully slowly. In 3 hours I cant remove the vitality from the previous night! Grouping is dying. I then go to move to the next spot of the quest and I walk into the Sunstrider lvl 55 heroic named mob. Hits me for 1500, 800, 1500 instantly, so I sprint and run back to the guards like a lvl 1 only to turn around to watch a lvl 55 wizard root the mob and then solo it down to zero. Where is this game heading when healers cant get groups and a handful of dps class solo they way to 60? The maths of the solo and group game is dominated by output dps and very little else. Raiding is a little better with a real need for healing but how do you get healers up to lvls for raiding these days? What was the point of the CU? You had 6 or so years to learn for EQ1 and implement the best. What I see isnt the best. You have consistently opted for the easy road to minimise CS support and dumbed down the content. Where are all the checks and balances to avoid class dominance? Summoning mobs, gating mobs, dungeons needing CC? Most classes in EQ1 at least had some defensive tatics ie root, gate, snare, mem blur, mez, stun, fear. Templars have the lvl 1 defensive buff .... sprint. For my class at least the CU isnt working. Templars are great healers when we get groups but pressing 3 icons repeatively when the recycle lets you isnt fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#66ff66 size=3>I agree with the grouping part. Content is too easy. I play EQ to group not to solo, I can play a ton of other games if I wanted to play solo. I most of all miss the challenge of dungeon crawling. There is very little need for CC, adds what little there are can just be tanked. I really do think SoE made a mistake in lowering the mobs HPs. Agro range in just about all zones I have been in are too small. Mobs in dungeons should not loose agro by running farther into the zone, give evac a reason. Getting to camp should not be running to the first climbing wall and jump on then to the next =/.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#66ff66 size=3>I have not been through all the single group content dungeons yet but in shimmering, LT, CoF(not really a dungeon but similar) and the instances I have been in it just seems too easy. Death already has little meaning now that you do not loose gear, do not loose a level/xp and the likes there is no reason to make dungeons as easy as they are.</FONT></P><BR>

[SenorPhrog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xaax wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> sabrexlanys wrote:<BR> <DIV>Come on guys this getting crazy. Im a level 55 templar. I spend 3 hours LFG in PoF killing lvl 51 solo mobs painfully slowly. In 3 hours I cant remove the vitality from the previous night! Grouping is dying. I then go to move to the next spot of the quest and I walk into the Sunstrider lvl 55 heroic named mob. Hits me for 1500, 800, 1500 instantly, so I sprint and run back to the guards like a lvl 1 only to turn around to watch a lvl 55 wizard root the mob and then solo it down to zero. Where is this game heading when healers cant get groups and a handful of dps class solo they way to 60? The maths of the solo and group game is dominated by output dps and very little else. Raiding is a little better with a real need for healing but how do you get healers up to lvls for raiding these days? What was the point of the CU? You had 6 or so years to learn for EQ1 and implement the best. What I see isnt the best. You have consistently opted for the easy road to minimise CS support and dumbed down the content. Where are all the checks and balances to avoid class dominance? Summoning mobs, gating mobs, dungeons needing CC? Most classes in EQ1 at least had some defensive tatics ie root, gate, snare, mem blur, mez, stun, fear. Templars have the lvl 1 defensive buff .... sprint. For my class at least the CU isnt working. Templars are great healers when we get groups but pressing 3 icons repeatively when the recycle lets you isnt fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#66ff66 size=3>I agree with the grouping part. Content is too easy. I play EQ to group not to solo, I can play a ton of other games if I wanted to play solo. I most of all miss the challenge of dungeon crawling. There is very little need for CC, adds what little there are can just be tanked. I really do think SoE made a mistake in lowering the mobs HPs. Agro range in just about all zones I have been in are too small. Mobs in dungeons should not loose agro by running farther into the zone, give evac a reason. Getting to camp should not be running to the first climbing wall and jump on then to the next =/.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#66ff66 size=3>I have not been through all the single group content dungeons yet but in shimmering, LT, CoF(not really a dungeon but similar) and the instances I have been in it just seems too easy. Death already has little meaning now that you do not loose gear, do not loose a level/xp and the likes there is no reason to make dungeons as easy as they are.</FONT></P><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Content is palatable but I think far from "too easy."  I would say it WAS too easy before the revamp.   Just because you play to group doesn't mean everyone else does though and you can't really expect SOE to say to X% of their playerbase "You know what?  Screw you guys.  Find a group."    That kind of thinking is just tossing more people at the competition.    Aggro range to small?  Whats fun about being chased 16 miles?

[kelesia]

I have been told that I'm a  better healer than some other people on my server.  However, because these people are 2 levels above, or are a different class, they will be taken over me.  Always. I expressed my frustration to a friend today, who told me that this person can DO some DPS.  Why bring along another templar....they already have 1, 2 levels higher.Aaaaarrggggghhhh.so i went out with this friend to the pillars to do some of the monk quests there.  Gee, a pally + a templar does not equal uber DPS.  Not even on solos that con even to us. almost a minute  a fight, sometimes more.bleh.  And people wonder why I'm rolling a warden....<div></div>

[rtoub]

<P>Hopefully this will be read by some of the developers.  I think the descriptions are over the top and exagerated but get directly to the fun factor and why the game isn't as fun post CU.  I had many battles that went like this but as I adjusted my stratagies and leveled it gets a lot better but the issues still exist and if addressed would go a long ways to improving things.  There are some really important points in here about grouping and the desire for Templars in a group.</P> <P>I think the CU was needed and has improved the game overall.  The problem is some classes aren't fun to play anymore unless you have a good guild or list of friends.  I find myself being the third wheel in groups against simple encounters because I am not needed to heal or debuff and I can't do much damage.  I am sucking exp for being a buff bot.  Now this isn't the case for tougher content, it is a challenge to heal and I am skillfully mashing buttons each fight.</P> <DIV>I think the mechanics are working pretty well so if Devs test the class they are going to see things working.  Only as long term players can we report the "fun" faction and situations that make the game less fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW: The load on servers has nothing to do with the amount of players, but with the actual load on the servers.  You can't really base the load to tell you how many active players there are.  If server a has a cluster of 10 computers and 100 players it could have a load of light.  Server b has 1 computer and 50 players and has a load of heavy.</DIV>