Templar Futures [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

bigmak20

11-01-2005, 08:46 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>MadisonPark wrote: <blockquote> <hr> bigmak2010 wrote:Is the current state of Templar the intended result of SOE's balancing?I know SOE has stated in the past we're working as intended. Is this still the official point of view?My summation of Templar: We are balanced healers and counting our special heal spells as utility you could also argue we have good utility. As most readers of this board know; I believe we need more DPS (a lot more) if all other factors remain as they are. This isn't EQ1, clerics are not and should not be the most powerful healers. Offensive aspects of the priest classes need to be balanced the same as healing has.Wondering if it's time to re-roll, quit, or wait for the correction. <hr> </blockquote>No offense, but haven't you been threatening to reroll for like 6 months now? <div></div><hr></blockquote>Yep! I keep making new chars... seeing all that low level stuff again... then going back to my Templar and harvesting. lol Tough to suck it up and start from scratch again. Go Caethre! Bottom line... If SOE had the balls to say "you are working as intended and you won't ever get balanced DPS and healing" I would know there is no hope and move on. For now.. I'm still holding out hope. </span><div></div>

Sokolov

11-01-2005, 08:52 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>kenjiso wrote:<div>my personal view is : if Int affecting my spell DPS, Wis should affect my Heal HPS. period</div><hr></blockquote> This would be cool. But might I suggest a reverse from how INT affects damage and have WIS decrease power costs instead?</span><div></div>

Caethre

11-01-2005, 09:00 PM

OOC.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SatinyChef wrote:<BR> <DIV>I think we're mainly working as intended.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ancient spell fixes, mitigation issue, Splitpaw line heal not stacking.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other then that my own view is that we are pretty well off.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>For a hardcore raiding templar like you, I'm sure you are right.</P> <P>For the rest of us, those who made a Templar and intended to operate in tiny guilds with friends, playing casually (which does not necessarily mean playing few hours btw), who solo and small group more than anything, we are a long way from balanced, and the future looks bleak to me.</P> <P>Ahh, now, is that "working as intended"? Only SoE can answer that. But if it is, Templar will slowly fade as a non-raiding class. Sounds dramatic huh? Well, as more people in the domain I play in, see that any Templar in a group can be replaced by another priest with no observable loss of healing power but with a very noticeable increase in DPS (amongst other things), the Templar's days are numbered. When even Templar players are saying they'd take a Fury over a Templar in a normal grind group every time (as the majority on these boards are), this will become de facto in time.</P> <P>I love my templar character, she was always intended for RP and tradeskilling and harvesting as well as for adventuring, and she can still do those other things (as can any character of any class). Friends will still invite her to groups, of course. But *I* will feel like an XP leech, and that, my friend, is not a fun feeling, knowing as I do, that my friends would get more XP and faster, with any other priest class as their healer, if in equivalent gear/spells.</P> <P>The faster I can get Anna to tiers 4, 5 and 6, as things stand now, the better. I just wish I didn't feel I had no other choice.</P> <P>Felishanna [53 Templar]<BR>Annaelisa [27 Fury]</P> <P> </P>

Grimhamm

11-01-2005, 11:11 PM

<DIV>LU #16 will be published soon, and like all those Live Updates that have come after the Combat Change, there's little or nothing for Templars. Given that, I think it's an somewhat reasonable assumption that we are now cemented in what I see as a mediocre state.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Plus, some Templars voice contentment with the change, and thus validate the Dev's decision to do nothing. Some find fun in a "challenged" class and I respect their opinion; I just do not share it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm dismayed there was seemingly no consideration given to those of us who would end up not liking the changes. What arrogance to assume everyone would end up happy, skipping, and singing. I invested almost a year in my templar, and it unbelieveable that no alternative would be offered other than - doh! I guess you should start all over. What a reckless, limited, and short-sighted production. The EQ2 design and management teams should be ashamed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For the moment, EQ2 is still a good game, and after really, really, really trying to like my new Templar, I have given up, and have put together a L35 conjuror pretty quickly (I play about 2.5 hours / night.) It's not too bad - high-level collection quests can propel a new, low-level character, and it seems to me that adventure quests give out more XP than I remember. I still check back on the Templar forums, just in case...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Grimhammer on <span class=date_text>11-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:14 PM</span>

SatinyCh

11-01-2005, 11:38 PM

<DIV>I don't know.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I disagree that just because I am a hardcore raider doesn't mean my views on the templar as a casual players are any different. Here's the thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I recognize that Templar spell DPS is low.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But the fact is you're still a great healer in group situations. It has been my experience (I played alts a lot while not raiding) that a lot of tanks really are not that good. I was lucky enough to meet my guild MT while I was adventuring in RoV in my low 20's, but that's another story. I still believe that templars are one of the best (if not the best) healer in a group situation. Back before DoF, my opinion was templar/mystic/warden were the best in a group healer situation (Furys, Inquisitors, Defilers were mainly DPS and debuff line). I did not trust one single non-guildie defiler, fury, or inquisitor to heal me while I was tanking (I had levelled a zerker to 50 pre DOF and he's now 50+). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Templars are the best in group situations because of our quick reaction times, and our healing prowess. If your tank is pretty bad, and you know it, you can stay one step ahead by monitoring things constantly and throwing reactives on mages or scout who may peel. Even though our heals give us aggro now, it's still a lower amount of aggro then a shaman class can get. Sure, regens from wardens and furies is good, and furies can DPS. I admit I got jealous at certain times while exping to 50, that I didn't get SoW or some neat spell along that line (of course this was balanced by the fact that I healed a metric ton more then those classes).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let's also not forget how hard non-templar classes had it. Everywhere I went from 20-50, groups were always shouting "Looking for healer for group, Templar only". When we decided to take the step to become a raiding guild, I recruited a number of healing classes because I knew we'd need them. Even the defilers, furies, and inquisitors. I became friends with all of them, and eventually it would break my heart to find that they wouldn't previously get groups based on their class (mind you, these players had great skill). These were great and talented healers, and just because they selected a class that "Johnny_Uber01" says can't heal well, they would be left warming the healer bench.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So you'll have to forgive me if you think my views are a bit skewed, because of all the atrocities I witnessed in my newbie days and pre-DoF. I will never agree that the Templar was designed as a solo class, meant to solo, or should solo. I do not believe that SoE intended to make the Templar class in that manner. I think the Templar's realm lies in small groups, groups, and raiding. Even if you do roleplay a Templar, based on history in and out, Templars were there in the battlefield, supporting their teammates, not off wandering around battering down snakes and bears. I think that was SoE's intention. So you'll have to excuse me if I feel that the Templar class is "working as intended".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Supernova17

11-01-2005, 11:47 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>SatinyChef wrote:<div></div> <div>I don't know.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>I disagree that just because I am a hardcore raider doesn't mean my views on the templar as a casual players are any different. Here's the thing.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>I recognize that Templar spell DPS is low.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>But the fact is you're still a great healer in group situations. It has been my experience (I played alts a lot while not raiding) that a lot of tanks really are not that good. I was lucky enough to meet my guild MT while I was adventuring in RoV in my low 20's, but that's another story. I still believe that templars are one of the best (if not the best) healer in a group situation. Back before DoF, my opinion was templar/mystic/warden were the best in a group healer situation (Furys, Inquisitors, Defilers were mainly DPS and debuff line). I did not trust one single non-guildie defiler, fury, or inquisitor to heal me while I was tanking (I had levelled a zerker to 50 pre DOF and he's now 50+). </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Templars are the best in group situations because of our quick reaction times, and our healing prowess. If your tank is pretty bad, and you know it, you can stay one step ahead by monitoring things constantly and throwing reactives on mages or scout who may peel. Even though our heals give us aggro now, it's still a lower amount of aggro then a shaman class can get. Sure, regens from wardens and furies is good, and furies can DPS. I admit I got jealous at certain times while exping to 50, that I didn't get SoW or some neat spell along that line (of course this was balanced by the fact that I healed a metric ton more then those classes).</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Let's also not forget how hard non-templar classes had it. Everywhere I went from 20-50, groups were always shouting "Looking for healer for group, Templar only". When we decided to take the step to become a raiding guild, I recruited a number of healing classes because I knew we'd need them. Even the defilers, furies, and inquisitors. I became friends with all of them, and eventually it would break my heart to find that they wouldn't previously get groups based on their class (mind you, these players had great skill). These were great and talented healers, and just because they selected a class that "Johnny_Uber01" says can't heal well, they would be left warming the healer bench.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>So you'll have to forgive me if you think my views are a bit skewed, because of all the atrocities I witnessed in my newbie days and pre-DoF. I will never agree that the Templar was designed as a solo class, meant to solo, or should solo. I do not believe that SoE intended to make the Templar class in that manner. I think the Templar's realm lies in small groups, groups, and raiding. Even if you do roleplay a Templar, based on history in and out, Templars were there in the battlefield, supporting their teammates, not off wandering around battering down snakes and bears. I think that was SoE's intention. So you'll have to excuse me if I feel that the Templar class is "working as intended".</div> <div> </div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>Agreed. Wonderful insight Reznor. Descartin, 60 Templar of Fortitude on Kithicor ** Brakes for contested mobs! ** </span><div></div>

bigmak20

11-01-2005, 11:50 PM

Thanks for the feedback! As you all know I think Templar needs more DPS to be truly viable if all other factors remain as they are now. I can't think of a case where it isn't better to be putting out good dmg while waiting for heal timers to come back up... well maybe one... if many chained MoBs and worried about power consumption. Very few encounters do my tanks screw up the pull that bad though.

Gcha

11-02-2005, 12:14 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SatinyChef wrote:<BR> <DIV>I don't know.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I disagree that just because I am a hardcore raider doesn't mean my views on the templar as a casual players are any different. Here's the thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I recognize that Templar spell DPS is low.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But the fact is you're still a great healer in group situations. It has been my experience (I played alts a lot while not raiding) that a lot of tanks really are not that good. I was lucky enough to meet my guild MT while I was adventuring in RoV in my low 20's, but that's another story. I still believe that templars are one of the best (if not the best) healer in a group situation. Back before DoF, my opinion was templar/mystic/warden were the best in a group healer situation (Furys, Inquisitors, Defilers were mainly DPS and debuff line). I did not trust one single non-guildie defiler, fury, or inquisitor to heal me while I was tanking (I had levelled a zerker to 50 pre DOF and he's now 50+). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Templars are the best in group situations because of our quick reaction times, and our healing prowess. If your tank is pretty bad, and you know it, you can stay one step ahead by monitoring things constantly and throwing reactives on mages or scout who may peel. Even though our heals give us aggro now, it's still a lower amount of aggro then a shaman class can get. Sure, regens from wardens and furies is good, and furies can DPS. I admit I got jealous at certain times while exping to 50, that I didn't get SoW or some neat spell along that line (of course this was balanced by the fact that I healed a metric ton more then those classes).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let's also not forget how hard non-templar classes had it. Everywhere I went from 20-50, groups were always shouting "Looking for healer for group, Templar only". When we decided to take the step to become a raiding guild, I recruited a number of healing classes because I knew we'd need them. Even the defilers, furies, and inquisitors. I became friends with all of them, and eventually it would break my heart to find that they wouldn't previously get groups based on their class (mind you, these players had great skill). These were great and talented healers, and just because they selected a class that "Johnny_Uber01" says can't heal well, they would be left warming the healer bench.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So you'll have to forgive me if you think my views are a bit skewed, because of all the atrocities I witnessed in my newbie days and pre-DoF. I will never agree that the Templar was designed as a solo class, meant to solo, or should solo. I do not believe that SoE intended to make the Templar class in that manner. I think the Templar's realm lies in small groups, groups, and raiding. Even if you do roleplay a Templar, based on history in and out, Templars were there in the battlefield, supporting their teammates, not off wandering around battering down snakes and bears. I think that was SoE's intention. So you'll have to excuse me if I feel that the Templar class is "working as intended".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I certainly respect your opinion, and it is one view. However, it is a raider’s view. I am not into raiding in EQ2, but I certainly was in EQ1, and my experience was that the ballgame changed entirely once raiding became the norm. Prior to that, I was focused primarily on small grouping, with a small amount of soloing thrown in. After we became focused on raiding, all I really cared about was getting the job done at raids. The focus of the game was using the available tools to complete a given raid. The raiding game is entirely different from the non-raiding game. <P>Another distinction is that it appears you were a high level raider prior to a number of changes, so you have no first hand experience in the current status of the game as it applies to lower level people. </P> <P>Additionally, people have different perspectives. For some, the only question is whether the class is capable of doing what it needed in the situations which are most common for that individual. For others, that’s not good enough. Hence you see people changes classes routinely in all games because they "don’t enjoy" a class. A particular problem arises when people expect a class to be one thing and it turns out to be another.</P> <P>As a raider, you may disregard soloing, and you basically state that templars aren’t meant to solo. That’s your view, not SOE’s. Unlike EQ1, this game was marketed as a game in which everyone could solo productively. Thus, soloing is important to many people and cannot be disregarded simply because some raiders don’t care about it.</P> <P>As far as history, I don’t recall any spell-casting templars <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Templars were (allegedly) holy warriors. The use of the title "templar" for spell-oriented fantasy clerics was a mistake.</P>

Sassyone

11-02-2005, 02:13 AM

<P>Gave it time to see if there were any adjustments made. There hasn't been, so my templar is shelved/retired and I spend my days now on a conjuror if/when I play from time to time. </P> <P>It still amazes me to see the skewed views of some. Balance healing is not the issue. Balance the heals if that is what you want to do but dont take everything away from one class to fix what you screwed up in the beginning and should have had corrected prior to launching of this game. </P> <P>Give the templar something other than their so called 'utility' healing to work with. The bones you tossed (mez and sooth) suck beans for a templar and we can all see those groups out there breaking their necks and screaming out to have a templar in their group for those reasons /sarcasm off. The heals arent there for the constant waiting on recasting times. The heals aren't there for the high mana cost. He!! I don't know about anyone else but I would have been satisfied if they just fixed the recast times.</P> <P>Havent read the boards in probably hmmm 2 weeks I guess. Nothing has changed. Nothing is going to change. Have a good one all. I'm out.</P> <P> </P> <P>Retired 60 Templar now harvest ho</P> <P>newb conjuror growing up while waiting on Vanguard </P> <P> </P>

Timaarit

11-02-2005, 02:22 AM

<span><blockquote><hr>SatinyChef wrote:<div></div> <>So you'll have to forgive me if you think my views are a bit skewed, because of all the atrocities I witnessed in my newbie days and pre-DoF. I will never agree that the Templar was designed as a solo class, meant to solo, or should solo. I do not believe that SoE intended to make the Templar class in that manner. I think the Templar's realm lies in small groups, groups, and raiding. Even if you do roleplay a Templar, based on history in and out, Templars were there in the battlefield, supporting their teammates, not off wandering around battering down snakes and bears. I think that was SoE's intention. So you'll have to excuse me if I feel that the Templar class is "working as intended". <> <hr></blockquote>That is your opinion. Fact is that if templars are to be made as a valid choise to play, we need a lot more soloing capability. A group only mediocre healer (yes, that is what we are in all) is not a luring choice to start playing with. As a secondary toon with lots of guildies to group with, a templar might be playable. But as a first or second character - eh, not. Unless you make an alt that is fun to play. And you are excused. Just dont spread you opinion as truth.</span><div></div>

Timaarit

11-02-2005, 02:26 AM

<P>**REMOVED FLAME BAIT**</P><p>Message Edited by Raijinnstein's Monster on <span class=date_text>11-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:03 PM</span>

Vylo

11-02-2005, 02:30 AM

but why would we need more DPS??? we arent mages! we arent scouts... etc... we are HEALERS... we are made to heal... not damage... if you want to do damage pick a toon that is made for doing damage... plan and simple!

Timaarit

11-02-2005, 02:34 AM

<span><blockquote><hr>Vylora wrote:but why would we need more DPS??? we arent mages! we arent scouts... etc... we are HEALERS... we are made to heal... not damage... if you want to do damage pick a toon that is made for doing damage... plan and simple! <div></div><hr></blockquote>Because of balance. Are you claiming that furies are mages or scouts? Then why do they have equal healing and triple dps? If I want dps, I would pick a fury. Like said, I would gladly /reclass my templar to one if that was ever allowed. Untill that, I will be demanding more dps for us.</span><div></div>

Tuttiax

11-02-2005, 02:39 AM

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>ummm I'm not a raiding Templar. I have a 41 lvl Temp in a very small guild. I've been playing for awhile. I think I've been in a raiding situation a whopping 3 times. 90% of my playtime revolves around small group settings, running duo with an equal lvl paly, or in a trio with a paly and a scout.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm a fence sitter. I'm not passionate either way on whether they are borked or working as intended. I do know that our dps is nearly non-existant, and in regards to the solo side of EQ2, that makes playing a Templar quite a painful and dogged process at times. Our non-existant dps has a large impact on solo style of play. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I agree with aspects of what Rez (tha raidah (sorry every time I read the word raider I hear chris burman)) is saying, but I do agree with some aspects of Gchang. Both have merits.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>For groups designated only to gaining the most xp in the absolute least amount of time, yeah, Gchang has a point. If other healers heal as well as I can yet speed up the process through the use of their dps, then Templars are less attractive. I have yet to be turned down from xp groups though, and being from a small guild, I'm in pugs more often than not. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, it's just an admission that I haven't seen it happen.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I don't want to end up hobble though so I try to spot check the forums from time to time to see what the word on the street is. I don't like some of the bleakness I'm reading, but I'll be the first to admit I am no expert in this matter and will let those of you who are, debate it out.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Here's why I'm no good in this discussion:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I've seen some impressive threads with alot of numbers, parses, and all sorts of tools helping to illustrate the posters cases within differing threads. I read them and they all make sense. However in the practical application of a group setting I believe there is one principle that trumps the code and sidesteps the math: Those who can, do. Those who can't, do not. In other words, a megahealer or superarchtype at the hands of an inattentive or uneducated player leaves people just as dead as a [Removed for Content]. An underpowered healer who barely has the tools to keep people standing will keep their group alive when at the hands of an attentive and educated player in regards to that class. I've seen outstanding group healers from all archetypes. I've seen [Removed for Content] poor healers from all archetypes.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I dunno, if anything at least this debate (in the forum as a whole, not just this thread) is a good illustration on just how varied players truely are.</FONT></DIV>

SatinyCh

11-02-2005, 02:44 AM

<DIV>"<FONT size=2>I have a 41 lvl Temp in a very small guild. I've been playing for awhile."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Tuttiax, that's exactly why your opinion matters.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>"However in the practical application of a group setting I believe there is one principle that trumps the code and sidesteps the math: Those who can, do. Those who can't, do not. In other words, a megahealer or superarchtype at the hands of an inattentive or uneducated player leaves people just as dead as a [Removed for Content]. An underpowered healer who barely has the tools to keep people standing will keep their group alive when at the hands of an attentive and educated player in regards to that class. I've seen outstanding group healers from all archetypes. I've seen [Removed for Content] poor healers from all archetypes."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>God [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] right on.</FONT></DIV>

Kendricke

11-02-2005, 02:57 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gchang wrote:<BR><BR> <P>As a raider, you may disregard soloing, and you basically state that templars aren’t meant to solo. That’s your view, not SOE’s. Unlike EQ1, this game was marketed as a game in which everyone could solo productively. Thus, soloing is important to many people and cannot be disregarded simply because some raiders don’t care about it.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>That said, soloing isn't meant to necessarily be equally efficient for everyone. Just as some classes have a lot of benefits they bring to a group, some classes have ablilites that work exceptionally well for soloing. But we've worked hard to ensure that everyone can solo if they chose to do so. </EM> -<A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=Newbie&message.id=134146&query.id=0#M134146" target=_blank><FONT color=#c8c1b5>Moorgard, September 13, 2005</FONT></A></P> <P><BR> </P>

SatinyCh

11-02-2005, 03:03 AM

<DIV>[Removed for Content] you Cid TG, you removed my other posts.</DIV>

SatinyCh

11-02-2005, 03:27 AM

<DIV>Timarrit gets to keep his posts, but they get censored. Why are mine straight up removed?</DIV>

thesilverf

11-02-2005, 03:43 AM

<P>Well now you've done it. SatinyChef was being all rational and stuff and you went and ticked him off, now we'll get another poor quality cartoon, with terrible, choppy dialog.</P> <P>Anyways, to the future! I don't think things are that bad really. Personally, I find all this class balance stuff to be none of my concern, I do realize that it is important, but to me... Fury having fun... cool. Mystic can heal a group... cool. Good for them. We do vary in what we can bring to the table. As far as Templar Utility and DPS, sure I would love to have something other than healing as a utility, maybe a summon shard ability? (I just left mine last night up by the malevolent wishes in SC) <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Sure I would like a tad more DPS. But I knew what I was getting into with Templar. A strong healer. I don't think that in itself has changed. We were never a flashy player pre LU13, and stuff took forever to kill then as well. </P> <P>I think it would be fair for us to be able to solo a slight bit faster than it is now though, I have no problems taking down really tough solo-targets, I just have to keep my schedule clear. Finished the solo Blades Arena at 51, with no Cobalt, sure it took some time, but was really fun too. Maybe that isn't terribly tough for a tricked out Temp, but hey, I wasn't tricked out. </P> <P>I think we are near the bottom of the list to have our DPS and Utility looked at, Preists in general, and I think they are right to put us there. In fairness, there are classes out there who have issues with their primary role, Assasins, Guardians, Coercers... We don't have those issues, as far as healing goes, we are able to do our job. Then the other stuff like duration on Tier 6 Food and drink.... I wish the devs didn't seem so short staffed, but they are making improvements, and adjustments. I'll wait my turn and try to put together a reasonable set of ideas for adjustments. </P> <P>Like the Mark line, couldn't the cast timer be shortened from 2 to 1 sec, would give us more of a chance to get it off before interuption happens. Rays of Faith line, increase the damage or reduce the cast and recast timers. 15 second recast for very little damage to an encounter. Parry! Couldn't we all have just a little parry? like 90? Would be a simple solution to the excessive interupptions. Would that throw anything off balance? (Just ideas off the top of my head)</P> <P>One last thing, it's been said before but level 54 was like the skies clearing. Things changed so drastically, and I'm glad I stuck with it. I did get disgusted at times, and just log off altogether some nights. Now it kinda makes sense, the lower 50's, I mean they were old spells i was using against even con mobs. </P> <P>Oh well, just thought I'd chime in. </P>

SatinyCh

11-02-2005, 03:52 AM

<DIV>"Well now you've done it. SatinyChef was being all rational and stuff and you went and ticked him off, now we'll get another poor quality cartoon, with terrible, choppy dialog." </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>LOL!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, you're right about level 54. It felt like quitting smoking!</DIV>

Curati

11-02-2005, 04:01 AM

<P>take away my ability to do damage</P> <P>increase the plate armor to deflect ALOT because we will get tons of agro</P> <P>give us heals on par with the wiz nukes</P> <P> </P> <P>like a wiz healer...so if someone wants to be a pure healer they can</P> <P>this is a class I would gladly play. I play my templar to heal people damage is very very secondary for me I hate soloing and only hunt greens while im waiting for groups or i just sit and wait in a safe spot. My group members do the damage....I heal and debuff so my groupies can kill stuff faster.</P>

Vylo

11-02-2005, 04:03 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE>Because of balance. Are you claiming that furies are mages or scouts? Then why do they have equal healing and triple dps?<BR><BR>If I want dps, I would pick a fury. Like said, I would gladly /reclass my templar to one if that was ever allowed. Untill that, I will be demanding more dps for us.<BR></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>i can guarantee no non-cleric priest can keep up with cleric on healing in a pinch... Kendricke has shown that... i have experienced that... in a normal easy play situation, yes, non-clerics keep up ok... but they do NOT heal as well as we do... period.

Vylo

11-02-2005, 04:04 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Curative wrote:<BR> <P>take away my ability to do damage</P> <P>increase the plate armor to deflect ALOT because we will get tons of agro</P> <P>give us heals on par with the wiz nukes</P> <P> </P> <P>like a wiz healer...so if someone wants to be a pure healer they can</P> <P>this is a class I would gladly play. I play my templar to heal people damage is very very secondary for me I hate soloing and only hunt greens while im waiting for groups or i just sit and wait in a safe spot. My group members do the damage....I heal and debuff so my groupies can kill stuff faster.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>AGREED!!!!!!! well put <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

TunaBoo

11-02-2005, 04:38 AM

<P>**REMOVED INAPPROPRIATE POST**</P><p>Message Edited by Raijinnstein's Monster on <span class=date_text>11-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:45 AM</span>

sorinev

11-02-2005, 05:09 AM

<span><blockquote><hr>SatinyChef wrote:<div></div> <div>Let's also not forget how hard non-templar classes had it. Everywhere I went from 20-50, groups were always shouting "Looking for healer for group, Templar only". When we decided to take the step to become a raiding guild, I recruited a number of healing classes because I knew we'd need them. Even the defilers, furies, and inquisitors. I became friends with all of them, and eventually it would break my heart to find that they wouldn't previously get groups based on their class (mind you, these players had great skill).</div><hr></blockquote>/teardrop <3 rez!</span><div></div>

bigmak20

11-02-2005, 06:47 AM

<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vylora wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE>Because of balance. Are you claiming that furies are mages or scouts? Then why do they have equal healing and triple dps?<BR><BR>If I want dps, I would pick a fury. Like said, I would gladly /reclass my templar to one if that was ever allowed. Untill that, I will be demanding more dps for us.<BR></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>i can guarantee no non-cleric priest can keep up with cleric on healing in a pinch... Kendricke has shown that... i have experienced that... in a normal easy play situation, yes, non-clerics keep up ok... but they do NOT heal as well as we do... period. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>No Kendricke has not shown that. There are some situatons reactives are better and other situations Wards or HoTs are better.</P> <P> </P>

Kendricke

11-02-2005, 08:08 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> bigmak2010 wrote:<BR> <P><BR> No Kendricke has not shown that. There are some situatons reactives are better and other situations Wards or HoTs are better.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>If you wish to get technical, I have stated that there are situations where Druids or Shamans are better than Templars. :smileywink:<BR>

sabrexlan

11-02-2005, 10:19 AM

<P>My biggest issues with Templars.</P> <P>1/ Spell stacking. We got a heal from splitpaw it needs to stack with the other 2 lines.</P> <P>2/ I have never found the group cure to work. Not sure if its bugged, cures for next to nothing or has the wrong icon on it.</P> <P>3/ Another of the single cures seems to do a lot more than it should (please dont fix!).</P> <P>4/ Solo I can get 4-5 blue bubbles per evening, grouped I can get 3-4 yellow xp bubbles at 55. Problem is most nights im LFG for 1-2 hours. People know that any single healer works in Eq2 xp groups, that healers make up a third of the population, and that templars are the least desired for utility. Net result im LFG for ages.</P>

Gcha

11-02-2005, 11:18 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gchang wrote:<BR><BR> <P>As a raider, you may disregard soloing, and you basically state that templars aren’t meant to solo. That’s your view, not SOE’s. Unlike EQ1, this game was marketed as a game in which everyone could solo productively. Thus, soloing is important to many people and cannot be disregarded simply because some raiders don’t care about it.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><EM>That said, soloing isn't meant to necessarily be equally efficient for everyone. Just as some classes have a lot of benefits they bring to a group, some classes have ablilites that work exceptionally well for soloing. But we've worked hard to ensure that everyone can solo if they chose to do so. </EM> -<A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=Newbie&message.id=134146&query.id=0#M134146" target=_blank><FONT color=#c8c1b5>Moorgard, September 13, 2005</FONT></A></P> <P><BR> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Absolutely correct, Kendricke, which is why I didn't say "equally"</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P><BR><FONT color=#cc0000><EM>I move like a Ninja</EM> - Moorguard, March 4, 2003</FONT><BR></P>

Timaarit

11-02-2005, 11:24 AM

<span><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote: <p><em>That said, soloing isn't meant to necessarily be equally efficient for everyone. Just as some classes have a lot of benefits they bring to a group, some classes have ablilites that work exceptionally well for soloing. But we've worked hard to ensure that everyone can solo if they chose to do so. </em> -<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=Newbie&message.id=134146&query.id=0#M134146" target="_blank"><font color="#c8c1b5">Moorgard, September 13, 2005</font></a></p><p> </p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>Too bad their hard work doesn't show.</span><div></div>

Arjala1

11-02-2005, 02:03 PM

<DIV>I am sad to say that my lvl 41 Templar has no future atm :smileysad:, i have put her on hold perhaps indefinitly for my lack of over all enjoyability playing due to the CU that took place while i was gone from the game. I have been back to EQ2 for 3 weeks now to a character i loved to play only to put her into early retirement. I mainly group/partner with my husband a Paladin so he does the DPS but certain quests i have encountered since coming back like the ones in Splitpaw (ie; the solo arena) i dont have a hope in he!! of finishing it, i die EVERY TIME. So how am i supposed to do any sort of soloing at my level when grey doesnt give me XP and white kicks my tail every time. As for the healing unless you have recently won the gambling goblin lotto to buy the adept 3 or master spells or even some adept 1 spells you are stuck with a low line of healing. Even the spell we get as a choice of abilities even at Master 1 still barely makes a dent in an average "tank" type. In EQ1 i had a Complete Heal, Remedies, and even Reactives. I was able in that game to stay very much on top of my heals with mana to spare after an encounter. Even during the high end game raids. Here after every major pull im drained and as my Templar stands right now major raiding is definitly no where near on the horizon if it ever will be. I know there are some Templars who say they can solo effectively but they seem to me to be the ones who have 100's of platinum in there banks and that can afford to buy the very costly imbued armor, weapons, etc. I for one am not one of those people I have to scrimp and save every silver to buy my over priced spells and items. Anyways thats just my opinion on all of this hopefully there will be some change made to the Templar line or they will be a class that is rarely seen which is a shame. :smileysad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Arjala Soulfire</DIV> <DIV>Retired 41 Templar :womansad:</DIV> <DIV>Nektulous Server</DIV>

Sokolov

11-02-2005, 07:48 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>bigmak2010 wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Vylora wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Timaarit wrote:<span> <blockquote>Because of balance. Are you claiming that furies are mages or scouts? Then why do they have equal healing and triple dps?If I want dps, I would pick a fury. Like said, I would gladly /reclass my templar to one if that was ever allowed. Untill that, I will be demanding more dps for us.</blockquote> <div></div> <hr> </span></blockquote>i can guarantee no non-cleric priest can keep up with cleric on healing in a pinch... Kendricke has shown that... i have experienced that... in a normal easy play situation, yes, non-clerics keep up ok... but they do NOT heal as well as we do... period. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>No Kendricke has not shown that. There are some situatons reactives are better and other situations Wards or HoTs are better.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>Of course there are. However, generally speaking, at least in my experience, a Templar has the greatest ability to deal with unexpected damage spikes. But, shhhh, gotta keep that a secret, cause they all heal "equally."</span><div></div>

Ansar7

11-02-2005, 08:26 PM

/agree Curative. That is exactly the way I feel. <div></div>

Wossname

11-03-2005, 01:57 AM

I'm a fairly casual player but I've been here since not long after release. I have a 44 Templar in a tiny guild made up of a circle of friends. My gameplay experience is almost exclusively small group with an occasional raid as needed by a (usually heritage) quest. Before the combat update I soloed quite a bit when my friends weren't on or were busy doing tradeskills. I was a decent healer but I could see that the other healers were severely under par in comparison. Group cures should be part of every priest's staple spell line but that is a different discussion. After the combat update I have lost any interest in soloing. It takes me excessively long and a vast amount power to kill <i>anything</i> now. Simply stated, I refuse to solo now as it is so much pain for pitiful gain. My damage monster Wizard alt can do Harclave's in about 70-90 mins and have fun and get decent loot. My Templar hasn't completed it, it would take too darn long. Guildmates can do Harclave's and other quests to get decent xp solo. I cannot. I am slipping behind my regular group because soloing is so painful and slow. They solo when I am not around (I'm the only healer in the guild at that level) but I can't solo effectively when they are not around. Why? Simple DPS. On the few occasions I have raided, and every time I group, my responsibility is healing. Debuffing helps me in that but DPS doesn't really figure. I joke with my group that I have the DPS of all of them put together as without a decent healer everybody's DPS tends to zero. Our healing capability probably is close to "working as intended" (though only a designer could ever make that claim) but we lag significantly behind others in DPS terms. My complaint about our healing is that I seem to spend a lot of time waiting on spell recycle... Our utility is limited, Soothe and mez are cute but I'd give them up in an instant for invis... Odyssey is neat for the occasions where I or a friend hasn't got Call available but I haven't used all of the 50 stones I bought at level 20 yet. Summon Food is just an insult of a spell. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I like my Templar when I'm in a group but that is now the only situation I will play him. I refuse to solo anymore, it simply isn't worth it. I'm slipping behind my friends as I only play when I group with them but they all solo sometimes. I know little of, and care little for, the raiding aspect of the game; I'm never likely to be involved in that, I just want to have fun with friends. Give me enough DPS to solo effectively and I can keep up with them and continue to enjoy my Templar. <div></div>

Vylo

11-03-2005, 02:42 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wossname wrote:<BR> My Templar hasn't completed it, it would take too darn long. Guildmates can do Harclave's and other quests to get decent xp solo. I <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Actually... i can do harclaves better/faster/easier on my Templar than i can on my monk (who solo's VERY well elsewhere)... that damage shield rocks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> just gotta invis in to get the buff and then its smooth sailing from there <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

Kendricke

11-03-2005, 03:32 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vylora wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wossname wrote:<BR> My Templar hasn't completed it, it would take too darn long. Guildmates can do Harclave's and other quests to get decent xp solo. I <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Actually... i can do harclaves better/faster/easier on my Templar than i can on my monk (who solo's VERY well elsewhere)... that damage shield rocks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> just gotta invis in to get the buff and then its smooth sailing from there <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You shouldn't even need invisibility. Try to use a combination of soothe and harmony up front to get the torches lit and see how that works.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

Takeo1

11-03-2005, 03:51 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vylora wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wossname wrote:<BR> My Templar hasn't completed it, it would take too darn long. Guildmates can do Harclave's and other quests to get decent xp solo. I <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Actually... i can do harclaves better/faster/easier on my Templar than i can on my monk (who solo's VERY well elsewhere)... that damage shield rocks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> just gotta invis in to get the buff and then its smooth sailing from there <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You shouldn't even need invisibility. Try to use a combination of soothe and harmony up front to get the torches lit and see how that works.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Excellent - Harmony (41) besides the mez/stun has a mem-blur effect and not a hate-reducer? Didnt know that...in a solo zone I never used it because there were few others for the mobs to be peeling on to...and it was just a hate-reducer...</P> <P> </P> <P>I have found that watching pathing and timing, Soothe alone can make the trip, though the wanderer in the last room tends to be a pain in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</P> <P> </P> <P>Lates.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

Wossname

11-03-2005, 04:38 AM

While I appreciate your tips on how to handle Harclave's, thank you, I think it is missing the intent of my post. I was hoping to give a perspective on an average player's view. The very low DPS of the Templar impacts on my ability to solo and keep up with my friends. Am I so far removed from run of the mill players that my experiences are irrelevant to the class in general? I don't know, I hoped I had given enough context in my first couple of sentences. I will say that I came within a hair's breadth of cancelling the account while I waited for the combat update. I didn't in the end as Templar remained fun in a group setting. If I didn't have the advantage of a regular group I would have quit, no hesitation. I still haven't bothered with DoF because of lingering doubts about my Templar's long term viability and fun factor. <div></div>

Sokolov

11-03-2005, 08:49 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>Wossname wrote:While I appreciate your tips on how to handle Harclave's, thank you, I think it is missing the intent of my post. I was hoping to give a perspective on an average player's view. The very low DPS of the Templar impacts on my ability to solo and keep up with my friends. Am I so far removed from run of the mill players that my experiences are irrelevant to the class in general? I don't know, I hoped I had given enough context in my first couple of sentences. I will say that I came within a hair's breadth of cancelling the account while I waited for the combat update. I didn't in the end as Templar remained fun in a group setting. If I didn't have the advantage of a regular group I would have quit, no hesitation. I still haven't bothered with DoF because of lingering doubts about my Templar's long term viability and fun factor. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Not sure what level you are, but in my guild we have a twinked out level 38 zerker who cannot even reach the torch - dps notwithstanding. Harclave is just odd, imo.</span><div></div>

Vylo

11-03-2005, 10:29 PM

<DIV>i will agree with you wholeheartedly that soloing as a Templar in normal situations is tedious at best... but im not much for soloing anyway so i guess that is why it isnt really an issue for me... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i do feel your pain though. after LU13 i switched to my Monk alt for a month or so... but then in the end realized that my Templar was more valuable to my guild/main group so i decided to bite the bullet and read up on her (again) and i respec'd her (mostly to take the single target reactive M2 spell over the group that i had taken the first time), bought her a few Adept 3s and now she holds her own as well as or better than the inquisitor i play with... (he is lvl 51 i am 47) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>in the end its all about what you want out of the game i guess... for me, its just being with my friends and killin stuff... andwhile i never actually kill anything... i make it so that others can <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Vylora on <span class=date_text>11-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:32 AM</span>

Timaarit

11-04-2005, 01:24 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>Vylora wrote:<div></div> <div>i will agree with you wholeheartedly that soloing as a Templar in normal situations is tedious at best... but im not much for soloing anyway so i guess that is why it isnt really an issue for me... </div> <div> </div> <div>i do feel your pain though. after LU13 i switched to my Monk alt for a month or so... but then in the end realized that my Templar was more valuable to my guild/main group so i decided to bite the bullet and read up on her (again) and i respec'd her (mostly to take the single target reactive M2 spell over the group that i had taken the first time), bought her a few Adept 3s and now she holds her own as well as or better than the inquisitor i play with... (he is lvl 51 i am 47) </div> <div> </div> <div>in the end its all about what you want out of the game i guess... for me, its just being with my friends and killin stuff... andwhile i never actually kill anything... i make it so that others can <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </div><p>Message Edited by Vylora on <span class="date_text">11-03-2005</span> <span class="time_text">10:32 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Sad as it is, this is how I now play: when I need to solo, I play with my monk. When my healing is actually wanted, I play my templar. Result is that I play my templar a lot less than pre lu13. But... I did have fun experience last night. We went to Pirates Cache and Scornfeather with guild. We had a fury with us and I was basically there to give her more selftrust and I did no healing untill she had to leave in the middle of PC. Most enjoyable moment was when we pulled a named with 4 linked mobs and another encounter with 4 no arrow mobs simultaneously and I was the only healer. Like I have said, that is where templars shine <span>:smileyvery-happy: After that, we wiped with the last named, but we all knew it was a gamble anyway with just one healer. Scornfeather was PoC. After that I tried soloing a bit since I felt good. Well, stopped that after first group since it nearly killed me by chainstunning. </span></span><div></div>

Sokolov

11-04-2005, 07:42 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>Timaarit wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Vylora wrote:<div></div> <div>i will agree with you wholeheartedly that soloing as a Templar in normal situations is tedious at best... but im not much for soloing anyway so i guess that is why it isnt really an issue for me... </div> <div> </div> <div>i do feel your pain though. after LU13 i switched to my Monk alt for a month or so... but then in the end realized that my Templar was more valuable to my guild/main group so i decided to bite the bullet and read up on her (again) and i respec'd her (mostly to take the single target reactive M2 spell over the group that i had taken the first time), bought her a few Adept 3s and now she holds her own as well as or better than the inquisitor i play with... (he is lvl 51 i am 47) </div> <div> </div> <div>in the end its all about what you want out of the game i guess... for me, its just being with my friends and killin stuff... andwhile i never actually kill anything... i make it so that others can <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </div><p>Message Edited by Vylora on <span class="date_text">11-03-2005</span> <span class="time_text">10:32 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Sad as it is, this is how I now play: when I need to solo, I play with my monk. When my healing is actually wanted, I play my templar. Result is that I play my templar a lot less than pre lu13. But... I did have fun experience last night. We went to Pirates Cache and Scornfeather with guild. We had a fury with us and I was basically there to give her more selftrust and I did no healing untill she had to leave in the middle of PC. Most enjoyable moment was when we pulled a named with 4 linked mobs and another encounter with 4 no arrow mobs simultaneously and I was the only healer. Like I have said, that is where templars shine <span>:smileyvery-happy: After that, we wiped with the last named, but we all knew it was a gamble anyway with just one healer. Scornfeather was PoC. After that I tried soloing a bit since I felt good. Well, stopped that after first group since it nearly killed me by chainstunning. </span></span><div></div><hr></blockquote>I do it differently. When I play my Defiler, I solo while LFG. Sometimes it takes 5minutes, sometimes an hour, sometimes I never get a group. But I never LFG with my zerker OR warlock and only play them when someone asks for them. I have never soloed with either toon to any noticeable extent. The stunning thing really was terrible when DoF first launched, I remember taking my zerker to PoF and getting stunned/interrupted a lot even against 1 mob. But it's gotten better since.</span><div></div>

Timaarit

11-04-2005, 08:16 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:<span><blockquote><hr></blockquote>I do it differently. When I play my Defiler, I solo while LFG. Sometimes it takes 5minutes, sometimes an hour, sometimes I never get a group. But I never LFG with my zerker OR warlock and only play them when someone asks for them. I have never soloed with either toon to any noticeable extent. The stunning thing really was terrible when DoF first launched, I remember taking my zerker to PoF and getting stunned/interrupted a lot even against 1 mob. But it's gotten better since.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>I see you haven't read the posts here. The thing is that templars are nearly unsoloable if you have ever soloed with any other class. It is like giving up a new Ferrari in favor of a 70's Skoda. At first I didn't realize templars unplayability untill I logged to my monk 3 weeks after LU13. I just thought it was as painful for everyone since most classes were complaining. But after playing one fight with my monk, I was 'OMG, is this real???'. And since that, I have been here complaining about templars. After all, I have put lot of effort to my ex main. I really wish to see them being as fun to solo as nearly any other class. If the process leads to more balance between all priests, even better.</span><div></div>