test server update 18. Oct

[Timaarit]

<div></div>Now that wardens and furies are far superior than templars when healing group and a very close match while healing single targets, I want to see templars having far superior AoE dps and debuffs than wardens and furies and a very close match to single target dps and debuff. After all, fair is fair. Untill that time, my lvl 53 templar is retired. Edit: Sigh, it has started. My guild has now 2 retired t6 templars and one retired t6 inquisitor. Inquisitor has t4 fury which does double the damage his lvl 54 inquisitor does and the inqusitor already does 1,5x the damage my templar does. <insert bad word here> <div></div><p>Message Edited by Timaarit on <span class=date_text>10-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:23 PM</span>

[NosmokIng]

What are they doing... furies / wardens were like the jack of all trades whilst we were supposed to be masters of one thign heals.. Now we've even lost that. When can I have sow, invis, evac etc? <div></div>

[Timber13]

<DIV>After reading your post Timaarit I'm convinced that you know nothing about the class "Warden"</DIV> <DIV><EM> "Now that wardens and furies are far superior than templars when healing group and a very close match while healing single targets"</EM></DIV> <DIV>Our heals are still not as good as your heals, our biggest heal is a 900hp (700hp HoT not included) heal at adept3, while your (Grand Restoration) is a 1400-1600 heal at adept3... wow balanced. Our group heals should be better aswell you said? Our biggest group heal is 600-700 adept3 ( 400-450 HoT not included ) while yours (Word of Atonement) is a 800-900 heal adept3. Conclusion: Your heal are over the whole line ALOT better than ours atm.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's very funny aswell that you don't mention the templar uber buffs, something that we are still missing since the uber nerf for the warden after DoF got released, anyway I'm not complaining about that since we're in the first place supposed to be healers. I hope the coming changes will allow us to call ourself a healer again.</DIV> <DIV>But I have to agree on one point from your post, templars need alot more dps, but I'd rather have big heals than big nukes. Depend what your priority is I guess.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS: I'm only talking as a warden since the fury heals are ALOT bigger than the warden ones, so you might have a point when you ment fury, but exclude warden in your post please since we are atm no healers. Just avoidance and wisdom buffers.</DIV>

[Timaarit]

<div></div>Right (right not included). You excluded the portion of the spells that make you superior. And claim that you are not (not not included). Your direct heals will be equal to templars alone with the HoT part, and your group healing will be far superior due to the mechanism of your HoT's. Edit: misunderstood something which originally made your post actually sound reasonable... <div></div><p>Message Edited by Timaarit on <span class=date_text>10-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:52 PM</span>

[SenorPhrog]

It hasn't even been 24 hours and the uprising is starting already? <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My guild actually has yet to lose a single Templar although all the negativity has kept a few people from making new ones.</DIV>

[Timber13]

<DIV>Timaarit get your facts straight, go to this link <A href="http://users.pandora.be/damme/sc/Warden.jpg" target=_blank>http://users.pandora.be/damme/sc/Warden.jpg</A> and compare with your heals and face that the priest class lost a healer class, that lost healer class is the warden.</DIV>

[Timaarit]

Timber13; Are those from latest patch on test? Since the HoT seems to be 1/2 to 2/3 of what was said in the update notes. Propably not working as intended. <div></div>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Radar-X wrote:It hasn't even been 24 hours and the uprising is starting already? <div> </div> <div>My guild actually has yet to lose a single Templar although all the negativity has kept a few people from making new ones.</div><hr></blockquote>Answer to me honestly; is there any reason to make a templar over to other priests?</span><div></div>

[Urth]

<DIV>I was just reading the update note, and if I understood, the regen heal of druids a better than RH of clerics ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the question isn't on direct heal where we are still the best.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm a poor little frenchy player and english isn't my best <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Timber13]

<DIV>Timaarit, I just made a screenshot from my heals, so this are our heals as for 19/Okt/2005</DIV> <DIV>If they get upgraded with 50% as you mention, that's gonna be nice, but they'll increase our tick rate aswell, it tick 8 times now and should tick 6 times on test server. So an average increase from 30% which is still not good enough to actually heal people in raids. But it's strange that you don't react on our buffs, I know our buffs are [Removed for Content] compared with yours, so SOE should work on that part aswell for the warden.</DIV>

[Timber13]

<DIV>Zutzut, our heals are overtime, which means that they'll tick when the target is on 100% power aswell, while a reactive tick as soon the target get hit. So depends from what side you looking at this, healing for 400hp and lose 200 from HoT or heal for 800 and a reactive that goes of for 350 each time target get hit... I'd rather have the reactive.</DIV>

[SenorPhrog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Radar-X wrote:<BR>It hasn't even been 24 hours and the uprising is starting already? <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My guild actually has yet to lose a single Templar although all the negativity has kept a few people from making new ones.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Answer to me honestly; is there any reason to make a templar over to other priests?<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No there isn't and thats how it should be.   My wife has a 25 Mystic and I can sit down and play her character just as easily as my 48 Templar once I figured out what everything did.     Ok she's got SOW (which at my level is slower than a horse) and a few fluff illusions so what?   She can do the same thing I do just a different way.

[cadrach]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Radar-X wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>No there isn't and thats how it should be.   My wife has a 25 Mystic and I can sit down and play her character just as easily as my 48 Templar once I figured out what everything did.     Ok she's got SOW (which at my level is slower than a horse) and a few fluff illusions so what?   She can do the same thing I do just a different way. </BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>But there <U>is</U> reason to roll anything other than a Templar.  Better DPS and utility with the same healing power if not greater after the update.  I dont own a horse (and never will) so I would love to not have to buy the SOW totems.   Again all thing are equal as long as they are not equal...  We  are not asking for a miracal just balance.  Can you honestly say we are balanced?  That we take down mobs as fast?  Now they do it faster and can stayed healed as good if not better.  I would say they have a distinct advantage over Templars.  So No, there is no reason to roll a Templar.</DIV><p>Message Edited by cadrach on <span class=date_text>10-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:50 AM</span>

[OlaeviaTraisharan]

<DIV>I was under the impression that Templars and Inquisitors were the best healers to get for groups/raids and that the other priest classes could heal fairly well but not as well as the first two classes in exchange for more utility and dps?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe I missed something somewhere... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm still wanted in groups as a Templar, so I haven't noticed any huge disparity at my current level. I think it doesn't really matter in the long run unless you want to solo. It's extremely difficult for me to run around the world and solo anything as a Templar. I mean I can't even get down through the upper tunnels to the Splitpaw Den... and I die constantly trying to do Harclaves.</DIV>

[Supernova17]

If you truly believe there is no reason to play a Templar, please leave and spare us the drivel you spout. Now then, Templars remain powerful. Sorry to break it to you guys, but if you haven't noticed we have far more healing lines than all the other Priests and the ability to dump our entire healing load in an instant to handle spam damage. Seriously, we have excellent buffs and alot of healing utility, what do we have to complain about? And to the lvl 53 retired Templar, please try to make it to 54 and get your Master 2 Grand Intercession. Trust me this will make you re-think your decision. You are using Tier4 reactives against Tier6 mobs most likely, you will have some minor trouble till you get your Tier6 upgrades. <div></div>

[SenorPhrog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> cadrach wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Radar-X wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>No there isn't and thats how it should be.   My wife has a 25 Mystic and I can sit down and play her character just as easily as my 48 Templar once I figured out what everything did.     Ok she's got SOW (which at my level is slower than a horse) and a few fluff illusions so what?   She can do the same thing I do just a different way. </BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>But there <U>is</U> reason to roll anything other than a Templar.  Better DPS and utility with the same healing power if not greater after the update.  I dont own a horse (and never will) so I would love to not have to buy the SOW totems.   Again all thing are equal as long as they are not equal...  We  are not asking for a miracal just balance.  Can you honestly say we are balanced?  That we take down mobs as fast?  Now they do it faster and can stayed healed as good if not better.  I would say they have a distinct advantage over Templars.  So No, there is no reason to roll a Templar.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by cadrach on <SPAN class=date_text>10-19-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:50 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>DPS isn't an "ability" its a number.   Its a figure derived using variables too numerous to mention between the classes.  You are asking them to give you something intangible or some type of equation change.   You can't measure balance in "time."  My wife's Mystic can't kill anything harder than a Templar can she can just do it a little faster.   We're also only talking about ONE aspect of the class which is soloing.  Would I like to be able to solo faster?  WIthout any doubt in my mind but how do you ask for something that will accomplish that without tipping the balance?</DIV>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Radar-X wrote: <div>DPS isn't an "ability" its a number.   Its a figure derived using variables too numerous to mention between the classes.  You are asking them to give you something intangible or some type of equation change.   You can't measure balance in "time."  My wife's Mystic can't kill anything harder than a Templar can she can just do it a little faster.   We're also only talking about ONE aspect of the class which is soloing.  Would I like to be able to solo faster?  WIthout any doubt in my mind but how do you ask for something that will accomplish that without tipping the balance?</div><hr></blockquote>In that case healing isn't an ability either, it is just a number. And equation change has been given to other healing classes, so why not to templars. And balance has just been - well tipped is a mild word to what happened.</span><div></div>

[Dekedar]

<DIV>Radar, what is the point of making seperate classes if you can sit down and play each seperate class exactly the same. Classes shouldn't be equal IMO, it doesn't make sense to even have them then. Pls ask SoE to take away wardens, templars, druids, etc... make us all priests and I can just say 58 priest lfg. I mean, why would I want my  class to be special, I don't like being an individual. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh yeah, but if we're all going to just be priests and never advance, why don't we TRULY make things equal? It's nice to see that other healers heals are as good as ours now, next their buffs will probably become equal with ours. And then eventually some day they MAY get to raising our dps and giving us worthwhile utility, it'll be months or longer I'm sure. Then we can all become equal priests. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Throw the unique feeling out the window, make us all the same, call us equal, then work from there. This way is not working IMO. They taking our advantage away and letting others keep theirs. I'm not complaining that others can heal as well as I can but that they get to keep their advantages over us while ours are taken away making us inferior.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh, and as if anyone cares, dps is the last thing in the world I want added to our class. Bottom of the totem pole. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT:</DIV> <DIV>Forgot to mention. Does SoE see us right where they want us, are they adjusting our position on the ladder of healers by adjusting them and leaving us right where we are. It's frustrating to see another patch with changes to the majority of classes and see us with nothing again, when I don't feel we are 100% right. Hopefully time will heal this wound, that I cannot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Dekedar on <span class=date_text>10-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:03 PM</span>

[SenorPhrog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Radar-X wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV>DPS isn't an "ability" its a number.   Its a figure derived using variables too numerous to mention between the classes.  You are asking them to give you something intangible or some type of equation change.   You can't measure balance in "time."  My wife's Mystic can't kill anything harder than a Templar can she can just do it a little faster.   We're also only talking about ONE aspect of the class which is soloing.  Would I like to be able to solo faster?  WIthout any doubt in my mind but how do you ask for something that will accomplish that without tipping the balance?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>In that case healing isn't an ability either, it is just a number. And equation change has been given to other healing classes, so why not to templars.<BR><BR>And balance has just been - well tipped is a mild word to what happened.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Point taken.  That was a stupid statement and not thought out enough (see?  I can admit when I make them).   The larger issue I see with "DPS" is how do you measure that?  How do I weigh the effect my Rebuke line has?  Would you not agree that adds to our DPS?  I still don't see anything as necessarily "tipped."   Same results different method.

[SenorPhrog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dekedar wrote:<BR> <DIV>Radar, what is the point of making seperate classes if you can sit down and play each seperate class exactly the same. Classes shouldn't be equal IMO, it doesn't make sense to even have them then. Pls ask SoE to take away wardens, templars, druids, etc... make us all priests and I can just say 58 priest lfg. I mean, why would I want my  class to be special, I don't like being an individual. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh yeah, but if we're all going to just be priests and never advance, why don't we TRULY make things equal? It's nice to see that other healers heals are as good as ours now, next their buffs will probably become equal with ours. And then eventually some day they MAY get to raising our dps and giving us worthwhile utility, it'll be months or longer I'm sure. Then we can all become equal priests. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Throw the unique feeling out the window, make us all the same, call us equal, then work from there. This way is not working IMO. They taking our advantage away and letting others keep theirs. I'm not complaining that others can heal as well as I can but that they get to keep their advantages over us while ours are taken away making us inferior.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh, and as if anyone cares, dps is the last thing in the world I want added to our class. Bottom of the totem pole. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT:</DIV> <DIV>Forgot to mention. Does SoE see us right where they want us, are they adjusting our position on the ladder of healers by adjusting them and leaving us right where we are. It's frustrating to see another patch with changes to the majority of classes and see us with nothing again, when I don't feel we are 100% right. Hopefully time will heal this wound, that I cannot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Dekedar on <SPAN class=date_text>10-19-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:03 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>The classes aren't the same or you are missing my point.   The abilities and mechanics work similar enough to where its very easy.   What is the difference really between a ward/reactive/HOT?  They all shore up damage being taken.  Obviouslly its not identical to play a Mystic and I had to spend a few minutes learning which spells were nukes, which were debuffs etc....  It didn't take me long however to jump right in because it was the same principle.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nobody wants to be identical and SOE knows that.   Being able to add "flavor" and "uniqueness" was discussed at length at the Community Summit and they completely agreed it was vital.   Why would they head in the opposite direction from that?  It doesn't take someone with a Game Developer mindset to realize people want to be different.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the patch would it have really mattered to you if they had tweaked the resistance rate of the Mark of Kings line or adjusted the proc rate of Vigilant Benediction?  They aren't ignoring you there are classes that have bigger issues right now (and yes thats just my opinion).   If you don't believe me stop by the Guardian boards.</DIV>