Just one Templar's opinion

[Kendricke]

<DIV><BR> <DIV>What follows is merely one Templar's views...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was in the original beta for several months, through various phases.  I remember the original uproar regarding the loss of low level wards and regenerations for clerics.  I remember seeing the arguments filled with rhetoric and hyperbole claiming that no one would ever want to play a priest now because it's impossible to keep a group healed without all three forms of specialized healing.  I remember seeing the outrage by some clerics that no one would ever be able to keep a group standing now.  I remember the attempts at petitions to force SOE's hand.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Like a few others here, I remember seeing some posts made regarding the fact that new clerics would never be aware of what was lost and would simply be content with what they had.  They wouldn't argue about "the good ole days" and they'd simply be content with what they have to offer as they see it.  As I recall, this was what I actually argued myself...and I was fairly reviled for it.  Hateful PM's were sent to me during the Beta calling me all manner of names and telling me that I had no idea what I was talking about.  Yet, here we are, over a year later, and I haven't seen a single post decrying our lack of wards and regenerations in months.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, this brings us to today.  The revamp was completed in September, nearly seven months since SOE first announced it was working on any revamp at all (shortly after Live Update 5?  6?  ...I'll have to look that up at some point, I'm sure).  SOE's been working on the revamp since February, at least, when they first mentioned that they were working on the priest class revamp.  That's right, the revamp started with us.  Shaman wards weren't mitigating correctly, neither wards nor reactives were producing the correct amount of hate, and Templars were able to heal groups for FAR more than other classes could.  It was a broken situation, and SOE said as much...in February.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Shortly thereafter, they began working on the full revamp when they announced that they realized the problems they were seeing were far more reaching.  Certain classes were all but invincible in certain situations.  Some classes were soloing Red Epic x2's.  Epic x4 raids were being consumed by single groups.  So they began working on the revamp.  Even at the first Community Summit in June, we discussed the progress they'd made so far and were able to report on what we'd been made aware up to that point.  Not too long after, the new system was in place on the Desert of Flames beta server...and very soon thereafter it also appeared on the Test server.  For months, the system was tested, tweaked, and tested some more.  Changes were brought over in phases.  I know this because I was on both servers and gave feedback from various levels as a Templar and Paladin.  I think I was the first player to post a "Templars post here for feedback" thread in the beta.    </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We knew the changes were going to be dramatically received by many within the playerbase.  We especially knew that classes which were traditionally "Kings of the Hill" would be the one's which likely gave the largest uproar.  Sure enough, prior to the revamp, Guardians, Templars, and Warlocks were THE best fighters, priests, and mages.  After the revamp, the distinction seemed much, much less pronounced.  Long held monopolies had been broken.  Skill meant more than class.  Encounters were a challenge.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No, clerics can't stack 3-4 reactives atop one another anymore, and toss in one of 3-4 direct heals to fill the gaps, should they desire.  Yes, wards are more powerful.  Yes, druids can now keep up with some spikes in damage.  We're not the kings of the hill anymore.  We're not the gods of healing.  We're still able to heal more effectively than other classes, and I'm still seeing Templars in high demand for grouping, for we aren't the only healers being sought anymore.  That paradigm has shifted.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of course the grass is going to appear greener on the other side to many who chose the class based only on the old system.  In that system we were the <EM><STRONG>only</STRONG> </EM>"real" healer worth choosing in most situations.  You didn't even need to be skilled to keep a group alive - that was merely a bonus.  An average or mediocre player in an old Templar in mediocre gear was still typically better than a good player as a Fury or Mystic in good gear.  It didn't matter about ability, DPS, or anything else then...because Templars were SO much better that defenciencies in player skill were easily covered up by the overwhelming strengths of our class pre-revamp.  An average grouping could easily consist of a good movie and autofollow since Guardians and even Paladins were likewise overpowered in many respects, and often able to tank so well with the correct mixture of stats and buffs that healing was all but an afterthought in many situations.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is most obviously not the case today, wherein a Templar which doesn't pay attention now, soon finds him or herself reviving at the nearest camp.  We have to <EM>think now.  </EM>We can't just "phone it in" anymore.  Switching targets and utilizing spells is essential now.  Before the revamp, we basically only needed two or three tools.  Now, we require much more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Will new Templars be aware of the differences?  Of course not.  Just as most Templars today will never know what it was like to cast wards and regenerations prior to every pull...Templars just starting out won't know what it was like to just sit back and rock between 5-6 heal buttons over and over.  They'll learn to keep groups alive in ways we never had to know.  I daresay they'll be better players because of it.  For us, the challenge has increased but for this new generation of Templars, they'll simply find it par for the course.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's with this in mind that I smile when I see someone threatening to play as a druid or shaman now.  Because, of course, they're starting anew and will not know the complaints that many druids and shaman are currently in an uproar about on their own forums.  Because these old Templars are the new generation of druids and shaman, and for them, the current system is simply par for the course.  I daresay they'll even be better druids and shaman because of this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's also possible that many of these players truly would have chosen a different healing class in the first place had this been the original system.  However, because of the WIDE descrepencies between the incredible ease by which Templars could keep groups standing and the challenge which faced all other priests previously, I would daresay many avoided any healing class except the one perceived to be "THE best".  Even though playstyle and preference would likely have chosen elsewhere had the choice been less obvious and one-sided, the very nature of the beast brought in many players who were never truly looking to be Templars...but who came here anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of course, this is all just one Templar's opinion.  What does one opinion matter these days?  :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV>

[Gcha]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of course, this is all just one Templar's opinion.  What does one opinion matter these days?  :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Precisely the same as each other person's opinion.</P> <P>But it is good that we've finally cleared up all the confusion as to what your opinion is <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P>

[SatinyCh]

<P>well you know what they say about opinions....</P> <P> </P> <P>One of the problems I have had, and now is an obvious trend following the re-vamp, is the amount of people choosing Templar in eq2, because of how essential Clerics were in eq1. Now, it's your own perogative to choose what class you play; some of us will choose our class because we like the "concept" of it, some choose based on prior knowledge (eq1), and some choose because they don't know any better. I was a mix of the first two. I played a Cleric in eq1 up until Luclin was released, at which point I started to dislike eq1 (that's off the point though).</P> <P> </P> <P>I think you are very accurate in your view that newbies to playing the healing classes will simply have no idea what they missed, or didn't experience. It's much the same with newbies playing other previously over-powered classes (Guardians were, but I loved the fact that they were overpowered.). One of the things that plagues a lot of people in this re-vamp is that the class they played was de-throned as the "God" class. I miss the feeds wizards that wizards had. The quick rezzes of Paladins and Dirges, among many other things.</P> <P> </P> <P>We have to re-learn our class, and learn a different set of survival skills. I don't necessarily think that every new Templar will be supremely skilled in comparison to us, the ones who were there from the beginning and who kept at it. We are the survivors, we are the ones who weathered the storm. We're swimming in the endless sea, hoping we will reach dry land.</P> <P> </P> <P>On a lighter note, read my comic!</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=13&message.id=12280" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=13&message.id=12280</A></P> <P> </P>

[Dreit]

<P><FONT color=#66ff00>Notes from Test:</FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></P> <P>All Druid, Warden, and Fury specialty regeneration spell lines now regenerate as much health per tick as a Cleric reactive heal. The number of ticks granted by the spell was reduced by 1, but the overall amount healed is much greater:<BR>   - Druid: Regrowth<BR>   - Warden: Blessing of the Grove<BR>   - Fury: Fleshweave<BR>- All Druid group specialty regeneration spell lines now regenerate as much health per tick as a Cleric group reactive heal. The total amount of ticks granted by the spell was reduced by 1, but the overall amount healed is much greater. The range of the spell effect was increased to 25 meters to match that of other group specialty heals.<BR>   - Druid: Winds of Renewal<BR>   - Warden: Blessing of the Earth<BR>   - Fury: Ram's Growth<BR>- Druid and Warden Arch Healing spell lines tick 2 less times, but the amount healed per tick was increased. The initial amount of the heal was also increased.<BR>   - Druid: Effloresce<BR>   - Warden: Nature's Embrace<BR>- Druid and Warden Group Heal spell lines have an increased tick amount:<BR>   - Druid: Sylvan Wind<BR>   - Warden: Healing Breeze<BR></P> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>With these changes I do not really see where cleric's fit into anything now. What are we for?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>-DH - matched by all other healing classes</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>-Single Target Specialty Heals - matched by all other healing classes</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>-Group Target Specialty Heals - matched by all other healing classes</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>-Buffs - The worst</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>-Debuffs - The worst</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>-Utility - The worst</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>-DPS- The worst</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Unless they give templars and inquis some <STRONG>MAJOR</STRONG> upgrades, we are a dim shadow to other healing classes now.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>-</FONT></DIV>

[Mor]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Dreiton wrote:<div> </div> <div><font color="#66ff00">With these changes I do not really see where cleric's fit into anything now. What are we for?</font></div> <div><font color="#66ff00"></font> </div> <div><font color="#66ff00">-DH - matched by all other healing classes <font color="#ffccff">This remains to be seen.  Note that only the warden arch healing line is listed.  And even then, we don't know if it's really fixed.   Wardens may still have no ability to deal with spike damage.  We'll have to see the numbers before we know for sure.  And group direct heals may have actually been nerfed.   Again, we'll have to wait and see.</font><font color="#ffccff"> </font> </font></div> <div><font color="#66ff00">-Single Target Specialty Heals - matched by all other healing classes</font></div> <div><font color="#66ff00">-Group Target Specialty Heals - matched by all other healing classes <font color="#ffccff">Your group specialty heals will still have a distinct advantage -- you can pool your heal on the main tank.  This is still a problem with warden group regens. </font><font color="#ffccff"> </font> </font></div> <div><font color="#66ff00">-Buffs - The worst <font color="#ffccff">Wardens primarily buff mitigation and wisdom, both of which can be better buffed by other classes.  At 50 we get duststorm which <i>was</i> our only great buff.  With the recent changes to stuns, it's not useful on raids any more (other classes buff defense much better).    Additionally, don't all priests get a 36 buff?  I'm pretty sure it's across the board.  In short, other than duststorm, we don't get anything that any other priest doesn't get. </font></font></div> <div><font color="#66ff00"> -Debuffs - The worst</font></div> <div><font color="#66ff00"> <font color="#ffccff">Wardens get none. </font><font color="#ffccff"> </font> -Utility - The worst <font color="#ffccff">Sanctuary is priceless.   100% combat rez is incredible.  I'd trade my out of combat evac (which, with a 5sec cast time is what it is) for either of those.   Gladly.  SoW is nice, but lets face it:  by 50 everyone pretty much has a horse or carpet.  Below that, SoW totems run 1g for 7 charges.  The only really useful in combat utility we get is root.   Personally, I don't solo much but I know people who do are very happy about it.</font><font color="#ffccff"> </font> </font></div> <div><font color="#66ff00">-DPS- The worst</font></div> <div><font color="#66ff00"></font> </div> <div><font color="#66ff00"><font color="#ffccff">Agreed.  I completely agree that templars need love in this department.  You have the support of many behind you.  </font></font></div> <div><font color="#66ff00">-</font></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Morie on <span class=date_text>10-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:58 AM</span>

[Curati]

<P>"<FONT color=#66ff00>What are we for?"</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00><FONT color=#ffffff>Healing folks....... that is....</FONT>What are we for.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Could we be given the ability to do it better?...Absolutly</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>i say LFG and a few seconds later im in a group healing folks this is all that maters to me. They can take my damage spells away as long as i can still heal my group</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>do you all expect to be healing gods? No we are healers ...we heal...group members still die...sometimes we are the heroes of the day sometimes we hate our class. I thought i hated being a healer and started a fighter. I got my fighter to 36 and i am sure glad that I didnt delete my healer ....i have concidered deleteing my fighter lol</FONT></P> <P>MY opinion is that you shouldnt play something that you are unhappy with. What is fun about being unhappy?<BR>Adapt and overcome this is the key to having fun in games like these.</P>

[Dreit]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Curative wrote:<BR> <P>"<FONT color=#66ff00>What are we for?"</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00><FONT color=#ffffff>Healing folks....... that is....</FONT>What are we for.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Could we be given the ability to do it better?...Absolutly</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>i say LFG and a few seconds later im in a group healing folks this is all that maters to me. They can take my damage spells away as long as i can still heal my group</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>do you all expect to be healing gods? No we are healers ...we heal...group members still die...sometimes we are the heroes of the day sometimes we hate our class. I thought i hated being a healer and started a fighter. I got my fighter to 36 and i am sure glad that I didnt delete my healer ....i have concidered deleteing my fighter lol</FONT></P> <P>MY opinion is that you shouldnt play something that you are unhappy with. What is fun about being unhappy?<BR>Adapt and overcome this is the key to having fun in games like these.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>Never said I wasn't having fun, but that doesn't mean I won't state my opinion when I think they are making the druid classes severly overpowered with this change. Are we being reduced in healing power? No. Are we capable of keeping our grp alive? Yes. Do I enjoy my char? Yes. Do I think they are overreactiving with the druid classes and now making them overpowered? Yes. Do I think templars need a boost? Yes. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But then again, I think all the healers need a boost...in buff/debuffs/utility/and dps. I do not think any class should be able to compete with healer buffs, but they do. I think all healers debuffs also need to be increased. I also think healers across the board need a dps increase, for grping and soloing. A huge boost in all of these areas? No, but I do think they need some type of a boost in all of them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Curati]

<DIV>I have never once been told that I cannot join a group because the group already had a druid</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I say LFG i get a group, I heal people....its that simple.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Never once have I been descriminated against for being a templar.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are always gonna be "the grass is greener" class arguments. I bet the creaters of the game know way more about how to ballance the priests then any of us do because we are biased to the class we play. You know what I have observed? I have obsereved that as long as you play your class good and you make friends and you take out the badguys (encounters).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>im not worried about who is the better healer. If a druid is overpowered but the guy behind the toon is an idiot then it wont matter. Who would you rather have healing your group? A templar who knows how to play his class or a druid that has an idiot controlling it?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] im hungry!</DIV>

[Supernova17]

Excellent post Kend! Nice defense Curative, you are truly becomming a great Templar and I enjoy your posting style. The grass will always be greener on the other side as said before, but green isn't my favorite color. That is why I'm still here <span>:smileywink:</span> <div></div>

[ChitzDaTroll]

<P>Very good post Kendricke. I dont think it could have been stated any clearer, or in better terms.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Morgandothian Gollandal</P> <P>40 Templar, Permafrost</P> <P>Card Carrying Member of the 10% Templar's Club</P>

[VikodiN]

<DIV><FONT color=#ccffff>This is a very nice thought-out post, it is somewhat how I felt and I am sure how many feel within the healing community in general, not just Clerics.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccffff>My views on us "sucking" isn't as bad as it was.  Instead of telling myself, I need to relearn a class that I enjoyed before the combat revamp or use another character (like I had been mentioning both in-game and here at the forums), I experimented.  I didn't do the "clear all hotbars and start over fresh" approach.  I looked at spells that I thought were worthless and used them.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccffff>I now cast Reverence on the MT (not the mage as alot of posts I have read) and I have found if your tank taunts and knows what he is doing, this spell will help a bit.  I enjoy this spell better than my reactives (which I think are still useless until 54+).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccffff>I still find myself chain casting instant heals and rarely use by debuffs unless we are taking on ^^^'s.  My suggestion would be to decrease the cast time (dunno if debuffs are really needed if you have tons of DPS in a group) on buffs to make them more useful in a grouping atmosphere.  Also, a "slight" increase in reactive heals I think would be inline and not offset or imbalance our class.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccffff>As far as solo play goes, I find some fights rather quick and others rather slow.  Adds are a little more hairy ... I don't see the mez line being too useful with its short duration but then again, I haven't solo'd much as of late.  I'l play aroud with it some more and am open to any suggestions on solo play with this spell.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccffff>Well, that's my take.  Not really disgruntled as I use to be.  We'll see what changes in the future, if any.  If not, I have decided to stick with my class and to make it work.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccffff>(( Edit: Basstone is a 52 Templar with mostly Adept I spells ... I plan to upgrade soon.  Winning the lotto on AB would have been so sweet! /cry ... But my gambling streak will continue, 2 gold a day! ))</FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by VikodiN on <span class=date_text>10-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:38 PM</span>

[Takeo1]

<DIV><SPAN><IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif" width=16 border=0></SPAN><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Kiara-]

<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#cc99ff>Kendricke m'dear, I remember those beta days.  All too well.  And I remember the flames you took for it and the lesser flames I took for agreeing with you <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#cc99ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#cc99ff>And you know what?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#cc99ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#cc99ff>I still agree with you.  And I couldn't have said it better myself.  * hug *  Good job honey.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#cc99ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#cc99ff>Now get off yer butt and go kill me a frelling badger!</FONT></DIV>

[Naithik]

<DIV>/sob Kendricke, thank you, that was so nice to hear.</DIV> <DIV>I can only wish all healers could think like you do.</DIV>

[Velir]

<DIV>This is not beta, even though it feels like it is most of the time.  The game has been out for 11 months now and there are many people that have invested a lot of time leveling and learning their classes.  What happens next year?  Will we all be back here commenting on another grass is greener post by you?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What concerns me is that it has not even been a year and they needed to push a revamp to live?  Most people say it has nothing to do with the expansion, so what does it have to do with?  Who is actually testing this game during betas?  Tradeskills, I will just leave it at that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like the optimisim in the post and your right, most people will not remember the changes made because those players would have moved on to other classes or games.  Is this what you and other members of this community want?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, I logged into EQ1 to check out my Wizard, and for the most part everything seems to be the same after 6 years.  I went out to solo some mobs I took on 3 or 4 years ago and guess what, still the same.  I always wondered why people were still playing that game after 6 years and I am finally starting to see why.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[cadrach]

<P><SPAN>Kendrick</SPAN><SPAN> I agree with you!<SPAN>  </SPAN>Anyone from this point forward will be fine with the changes.<SPAN>  </SPAN>You are right I never misses any of the spells you talked about from Beta. <SPAN> </SPAN>But.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>I think the point everyone missing is that if we are supposed to all be equal then why are we sucking it up so bad in some areas.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I have no problems that someone can heal as well as me in fact I think that they should heal as good…their healers for cripes sakes.<SPAN>  </SPAN>But to “balance” the heals and forget everything else is pure stupidity.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Can anyone dispute that we are the worst DPS class?<SPAN>  </SPAN>I don’t think you can.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Personally I don’t have much of a problem soloing but it is discouraging to be fighting a mob that is a challenge and to see a Fury run up and take him down in half the time but at the same time now the Fury is so much better at healing etc and still retained their utility (don’t give me the whole “we have a utility” line)<SPAN>  </SPAN></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Now let me get this straight.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Do I like my class?<SPAN>  </SPAN>Sure though it is not what I rolled a year ago.<SPAN>  </SPAN>All I am saying is my complaint is not so much “Hey they are as good a us!”<SPAN>  </SPAN>for me it is “If all is supposed to be equal then make it equal!” “Don’t just make X and Y equal make X, Y, and Z equal!”<SPAN>  </SPAN>Obviously everyone else is fine with the imbalance well it is shame but not everyone bought the same rose colored glasses.</SPAN></P>

[Supernova17]

<span><blockquote><hr>VikodiN wrote:<div></div> <div><font color="#ccffff"></font> </div> <div><font color="#ccffff">(( Edit: Basstone is a 52 Templar with mostly Adept I spells ... I plan to upgrade soon.  </font></div><hr></blockquote>Level 54 Grand Intercession (Master 2) and Level 56 Fateful Intercession (Adept1+) will make you powerful again. Just hold on a little longer.  </span><div></div>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dreiton wrote:<BR> <DIV>Never said I wasn't having fun, but that doesn't mean I won't state my opinion when I think they are making the druid classes severly overpowered with this change. Are we being reduced in healing power? No. Are we capable of keeping our grp alive? Yes. Do I enjoy my char? Yes. Do I think they are overreactiving with the druid classes and now making them overpowered? Yes. Do I think templars need a boost? Yes.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Quite frankly, any perceived issues that Templars had it rough after the update were dwarfed by the very real issues which faced Furies and Wardens who could not keep groups standing in even modestly difficult situations.  At least I could pull group members' bacon out of the fire in those situations, but Wardens and Furies simply could not in any way do so most of the time. </P> <P>Again, I daresay had this been the way of the classes since the first day, there'd be no complaints.  We'd all have earned our first Sign of Weakness spell and just accepted that "oh, this is a Templar spell".  Instead, because it's a perception of loss - because we can actually remember having something different that we were used to, we're suddenly feeling as if we've been penalized.  It's a relative observation, and one which I believe will fade over time...just as the outcries over our loss of wards and regenerations died down shortly after release.</P> <P>As I've stated and alluded to, I've seen this all before.  I'm certain I'll see this all again.  Perhaps it's that experience which gives me a bit more perspective than many in these forums.  Who can say for certain?</P> <P> </P>

[zorbdan]

NIce post . I don't really have any problems playing my templar but he is weaker no doubt . I have adjusted, no biggie. I do like the color green and I tell you what, playing my ranger has been alot more fun recently. I do get tired of the see-saw ride that is EQ2. One day to the next the game just fluctuates to much, it needs consistency. Fix the problems, do it quickly cause I am paying for it and do it right the first time. I just want things to work, I don't care if class x is overpowered or not, everything being equal is boring. If you have class envy go play that class but you better recognize that they might just change your ''god'' class in tomorrows patch. 

[Suite]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dreiton wrote:<BR> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Notes from Test:</FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></P> <P>All Druid, Warden, and Fury specialty regeneration spell lines now regenerate as much health per tick as a Cleric reactive heal. The number of ticks granted by the spell was reduced by 1, but the overall amount healed is much greater:<BR>   - Druid: Regrowth<BR>   - Warden: Blessing of the Grove<BR>   - Fury: Fleshweave<BR>- All Druid group specialty regeneration spell lines now regenerate as much health per tick as a Cleric group reactive heal. The total amount of ticks granted by the spell was reduced by 1, but the overall amount healed is much greater. The range of the spell effect was increased to 25 meters to match that of other group specialty heals.<BR>   - Druid: Winds of Renewal<BR>   - Warden: Blessing of the Earth<BR>   - Fury: Ram's Growth<BR>- Druid and Warden Arch Healing spell lines tick 2 less times, but the amount healed per tick was increased. The initial amount of the heal was also increased.<BR>   - Druid: Effloresce<BR>   - Warden: Nature's Embrace<BR>- Druid and Warden Group Heal spell lines have an increased tick amount:<BR>   - Druid: Sylvan Wind<BR>   - Warden: Healing Breeze<BR></P> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>With these changes I do not really see where cleric's fit into anything now. What are we for?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>-DH - matched by all other healing classes</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>-Single Target Specialty Heals - matched by all other healing classes</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>-Group Target Specialty Heals - matched by all other healing classes</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>-Buffs - The worst</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>-Debuffs - The worst</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>-Utility - The worst</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>-DPS- The worst</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Unless they give templars and inquis some <STRONG>MAJOR</STRONG> upgrades, we are a dim shadow to other healing classes now.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>-</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffcc66 size=2><STRONG>BRAVO! Well put.</STRONG></FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffcc66 size=2>Which is why I've all but given up my templar. She's a lot less fun to play than she was before, and every other healing class has something more interesting to do other than cast two heals.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffcc66 size=2>We went from being special because we were better to simply being lame. I don't care that we're all equal... we should be equal! But I do care that I've now got less than all the other healers.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffcc66 size=2>So now I'm back to playing a troubador and a guardian.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffcc66 size=2>Suite / Eliana</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffcc66 size=2></FONT> </P>

[Dillin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Morie wrote:<BR> <SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dreiton wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>With these changes I do not really see where cleric's fit into anything now. What are we for?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>-DH - matched by all other healing classes<BR><BR><FONT color=#ffccff>This remains to be seen.  Note that only the warden arch healing line is listed.  And even then, we don't know if it's really fixed.   Wardens may still have no ability to deal with spike damage.  We'll have to see the numbers before we know for sure.  And group direct heals may have actually been nerfed.   Again, we'll have to wait and see.</FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT color=#66ff00><FONT color=#ffccff></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#66ff00><FONT color=#ff0000>I'd like to see some data to compare this.  Seems a Wardens group heal at Adept 1 heals the same amount across a group as my direct heal does to 1 person at Adept 3 with only a 20 difference in power cost.  Doesn't even seem right does it?</FONT><FONT color=#ffccff></FONT></FONT> <DIV><BR><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>-Single Target Specialty Heals - matched by all other healing classes</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>-Group Target Specialty Heals - matched by all other healing classes<BR><BR><FONT color=#ffccff>Your group specialty heals will still have a distinct advantage -- you can pool your heal on the main tank.  This is still a problem with warden group regens. </FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT color=#66ff00><FONT color=#ffccff></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#66ff00><FONT color=#ff0000>Group specialty heal?  I'd like to get the name of that spell/line.  Group reactives heal for less then a single reactive with a huge power cost.  It's more effective to do a reactive, major direct heal, then back to the reactive if the MT is taking a lot of hits and damage.  </FONT><FONT color=#ffccff></FONT></FONT> <DIV><BR><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>-Buffs - The worst<BR><BR><FONT color=#ffccff>Wardens primarily buff mitigation and wisdom, both of which can be better buffed by other classes.  </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Which classes?  Comparing a Warden to Templar... I would prefer the Warden's Wis buff over mine and his is a group buff.  Assuming the mirror class are fairly similiar (Templar/Inquisitor, Warden/Fury), that leaves only 2 other healer classes.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00><FONT color=#ffccff>At 50 we get duststorm which <I>was</I> our only great buff.  With the recent changes to stuns, it's not useful on raids any more (other classes buff defense much better).    Additionally, don't all priests get a 36 buff?  I'm pretty sure it's across the board. <BR><FONT color=#ff0000>Again, which classes.</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT color=#66ff00><FONT color=#ffccff><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT></FONT></FONT> <DIV><BR>In short, other than duststorm, we don't get anything that any other priest doesn't get.<BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00><BR>-Debuffs - The worst</FONT></DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> <DIV><BR><FONT color=#ffccff>Wardens get none. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Can't comment on this, I know very little about other class' "other" features but I am learning more everyday.  </FONT><FONT color=#ffccff><BR></FONT><BR>-Utility - The worst<BR><BR><FONT color=#ffccff>Sanctuary is priceless.   </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>It's a lvl 55 spell so I can't comment much on it but the times I have been effected by those spells is rare when grouped.  In solo situations, it's just annoying.  In the first few seconds of a fight, I know if I'm going to be effected by these spells or not so I gauge my self healing by that.  If it's cast on me... it's to late to cast this spell anyway.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffccff>100% combat rez is incredible.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>I just got this and yes, it rocks.  Although as a healer, it's embarressing to have to rez someone at all becuase I feel like I failed my group somehow.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffccff>I'd trade my out of combat evac (which, with a 5sec cast time is what it is) for either of those.   Gladly.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Be careful what you wish for...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffccff>SoW is nice, but lets face it:  by 50 everyone pretty much has a horse or carpet.  Below that, SoW totems run 1g for 7 charges.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Please try not to make generalizations.  Only time I've had enough money to get a 1.5p horse is when I bought money on the SE and SoWTs are a rare breed on the brokers for my server, but that's OK since rumor has it they are 10g a piece.  Yes, sometimes it sucks being a RM (Real Money) server but it got me off that Godforsaken EU server.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffccff>The only really useful in combat utility we get is root.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>We get a 5.5s stun.  I still haven't been able to incorporate it into my combat routine because of the cast time.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffccff>Personally, I don't solo much but I know people who do are very happy about it.</FONT><FONT color=#ffccff><BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>-DPS- The worst</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00><FONT color=#ffccff>Agreed.  I completely agree that templars need love in this department.  You have the support of many behind you.<BR></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>-</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN> <P>Message Edited by Morie on <SPAN class=date_text>10-18-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>10:58 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Takeo1]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dreiton wrote:<BR> <DIV>Never said I wasn't having fun, but that doesn't mean I won't state my opinion when I think they are making the druid classes severly overpowered with this change. Are we being reduced in healing power? No. Are we capable of keeping our grp alive? Yes. Do I enjoy my char? Yes. Do I think they are overreactiving with the druid classes and now making them overpowered? Yes. Do I think templars need a boost? Yes.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Quite frankly, any perceived issues that Templars had it rough after the update were dwarfed by the very real issues which faced Furies and Wardens who could not keep groups standing in even modestly difficult situations.  At least I could pull group members' bacon out of the fire in those situations, but Wardens and Furies simply could not in any way do so most of the time. <FONT color=#ff0033> Seems like a little break in content for you Kend - now dont get me wrong but are you not the same type as me? Was there any hard evidence to support these claims, hell even any common sense? I saw many a druid doing well and thriving post LU13, it must have been just me. I think that it was more about the players, just like it is about us 9/10 times. I am surprised you bought into it.</FONT></P> <P>Again, I daresay had this been the way of the classes since the first day, there'd be no complaints.  We'd all have earned our first Sign of Weakness spell and just accepted that "oh, this is a Templar spell".  Instead, because it's a perception of loss - because we can actually remember having something different that we were used to, we're suddenly feeling as if we've been penalized.  It's a relative observation, and one which I believe will fade over time...just as the outcries over our loss of wards and regenerations died down shortly after release. <FONT color=#ff0033>And I daresay that ANYbody that has gotten used to a mode of play will need some adjustment too. Maybe that is what was wrong with the Druids eh? Their "relative observation" or perception that they had been hit with the bat and couldnt heal worth a [expletive haxx0red by Raiscript] would have faded in time, to be replaced by a new found confidence in their healing ability. Right? Nevermind - they fixxed it. :smileyvery-happy:</FONT></P> <P>As I've stated and alluded to, I've seen this all before.  I'm certain I'll see this all again.  Perhaps it's that experience which gives me a bit more perspective than many in these forums.  Who can say for certain? <FONT color=#ff0033>Your experience is obvious, but I was taught long ago - that those who truly know dont let all about them know what they know. I wonder why that is....and yes you may or may not see this again. That is a definite possibility.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>Lates.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <p>Message Edited by Takeo101 on <span class=date_text>10-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:00 AM</span>