Wake up, all you we like the changes, Oh we so skilled! Templer love two is on the way! [Archive]

Maddog51

10-01-2005, 04:14 AM

<DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>I get a kick out of those who are so quick jump on anyone who voices their dislike and opinions with the new changes.<BR>Keep it up; maybe you should try reading other forums. Everyone is upset and very few players are happy be it for the same few who parse these boards. You who and are so quick to defend a broken mistake of an end of content dumb down fix. I wonder sometimes if you’re playing the same game or if you play at all. </FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Go read the other Priests forums calling for yet more dumbing down of the Templer class. Go read the posts about Guardians who can no longer tank and Guilds that can no longer raid. Monks of all classes are now the best tank class! I wonder if you have played since the 21st when yellow ^ and up mobs have been made harder to hit and kill. Oh did I say kill how about unkillable and all Heroic's are now way stronger than before. I too play a Templer and cannot keep up with my healing. Please don’t Blah blah me about my level, the armour im wearing and what mobs. You need to go read the screaming {"wheres the balence"} Druid and Shaman forums complaining that Templers are the only class that can solo heal a group. Heck you may as well go to thier forums and agree with them.<BR><BR>Dof loot is pure crap, and if we shouldn’t be killing Heroic mobs why are there so many, and no I shouldn’t have to kill green mobs 11 or 12 levels below with 3 to 4 people to have a chance to see a chest. List all the new and past Non Heroic Instances in DoF. Last time I posted it was suggested that I go to Hardclve for loot. I'm sick of Hardclave and why did I pay 29.99 per account? To go back to Hardclave to finally see a few chest, please!!<BR><BR>This game has been so dumbed down to the same solo no loot mobs with classes being made to all do the same things. Why Sony do you boast having so many classes and races to choose from when you only have 5 or 6 being molded to be the same. I have a great idea maybe alll classes should be able to Heal, Rez, SoW and Tank the same. Then you can give them T-shirts with big S on them and the ability to fly around Tall Buildings.<BR><BR>Wake up Sony and stop ignoring your fan base you are driving this game into the ground like SWG, Ac2 and DoC.<BR><BR>What do I do now? I have done all the faction quests and so far all you could come up for me in new content is one long post level 50 Heritage Quests for a crap level 40 item that 90% of us cant weild?</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff> Defend that all mighty we love the changes Templer's and you are soon to get us nerfed again. </FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>Maddog5150</SPAN></P></DIV>

Cowdenic

10-01-2005, 04:20 AM

Ahm no full group should go out without 1 tank, 2 different types of healers, and 3 dps.

SenorPhrog

10-01-2005, 04:36 AM

Maddog51

10-01-2005, 05:26 AM

<DIV>In reply to:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Radar-X<BR><SPAN>Posts Way Too Much<BR>Posts: 6458<BR>Registered: 11-08-2004 </SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN> <HR> </SPAN></DIV> <P>Wow 6458 posts kinda says it all do you get a reward for you blanket defense of these boards.</P> <P> </P> <P>Ok ill dumb it down and make it simple how about a pop up poll like the one's Sony is famous.</P> <P></P> <HR> <P>Check the answer that best describes your veiw.</P> <P> You are happy with DoF and the new combat changes and the direction of EQ2 ?</P> <P>or</P> <P>You are Un-happy with DoF the new combat changes and you do not like the direction of EQ2</P> <P></P> <HR> <P>Come on dude take the blinders off with over 6000 posts go find a new hobby !</P> <P>Oh about the poll ill bet 2 to 1 that more people are not happy and if your right you can have all of my accounts.</P> <P> </P> <P>Maddog5150</P>

Salastine

10-01-2005, 07:30 AM

<DIV>Maddog, you're a troll who is launching personal attacks against the first person to respond to your thread in a civil manner.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IBTL</DIV>

SenorPhrog

10-01-2005, 10:57 AM

<span><blockquote><hr>Maddog5150 wrote:<div></div> <div>In reply to:</div> <div> </div> <div> <hr> </div> <div>Radar-X<span>Posts Way Too MuchPosts: 6458Registered: 11-08-2004 </span></div> <div><span></span> </div> <div><span> <hr> </span></div> <p>Wow 6458 posts kinda says it all do you get a reward for you blanket defense of these boards.</p> <p>Ok ill dumb it down and make it simple how about a pop up poll like the one's Sony is famous.</p> <p></p> <hr> <p>Check the answer that best describes your veiw.</p> <p> You are happy with DoF and the new combat changes and the direction of EQ2 ?</p> <p>or</p> <p>You are Un-happy with DoF the new combat changes and you do not like the direction of EQ2</p> <p></p> <hr> <p>Come on dude take the blinders off with over 6000 posts go find a new hobby !</p> <p>Oh about the poll ill bet 2 to 1 that more people are not happy and if your right you can have all of my accounts. </p> <p>Maddog5150</p><hr></blockquote>No 6458 posts just means I've seen tired whiny drivel like this 100's of times. I'm not sure what "blinders" you are talking about "dude" but I think I've got time in hobby schedule to point out a pointless rant but thank you so much for keeping my mental health in mind. Its very kind of you. What are we betting 2 to 1 on....if I lose are you going to rant twice as much? How about I bet you twice as many people won't take your post seriously as will take it seriously?</span><div></div>

ChitzDaTroll

10-02-2005, 02:28 AM

<P>The 2nd poster is correct imho.</P> <P>Yes,.. it is more challenging to keep a group alive, WHEN you are fighting difficult encounters. But thats the way it should be I believe. You state very angrily that there are 6 zillion posts from people who are mad about the nerfing of templars, that all pretty much state that they cant solo heal a group, that they are worthless, that they cant do anything to keep people alive anymore. All of the posts are the same thing,.. over and over and over.</P> <P>I felt the same exact way when I was hearing about the LU13 patch, and for the first group AFTER the LU13 patch that I was in. But,.. then I had to stop, calm myself down, and try to figure out what I was doing before the lu13, that wasnt working post lu13, and how I could compensate. Primarily, I couldnt cast a few reactives and go afk while I cook dinner and go for a run, come back and have my group still alive. I had to actually try to adapt to the new system and heal differently then I was before.</P> <P>I disagree that it is much more difficult now to keep a group alive. I agree that it is much more challenging. Difficult, is something that you can barely do by the skin of your teeth, if at all. Challenging, is something that you CAN do, but you have to adapt and try to think one step ahead of your actions. Its more challenging, not more difficult. I have much more personal satisfaction with keeping a group alive now, then I did pre patch. Because you have to work for it now. Its not impossable, but i t can be challenging,.. and that has made the game much more fun for me, because I like a challenge. </P> <P>Its also more rewarding now, because you get compliments now of "your a good healer" or "we have to group again" comments. More so then before the patch, because with all classes,.. there have been those that have been able to adapt, and those that havent. And there is a big difference between the two in groups.</P> <P>Stop gnashing your teeth, and go figure out how to adapt.</P> <P> </P> <P>Morgandothian Gollandal</P> <P>Card carrying member of the 10% Templars club</P>

Dekedar

10-02-2005, 01:25 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>No 6458 posts just means I've seen tired whiny drivel like this 100's of times. </P> <P> </P> <P>actually it means you've seen it 1000's of times, and responded each time, most likely the majority if the time in favor of SoE. 6k posts... that must have taken literally months logged into reading these forums, not a burn, more power to you.</P> <P> </P> <P>Eh, I can't completely agree with this maddog dude, but I can't compeltely disagree. He complained too much and a little too far on things, but he's right, the majority is not happy with the expansion, we just "deal with it" and that is a fact.</P> <P> </P> <P>Ppl always complain about flamers, every board I've ever been to, but its kinda like an [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], they're everwhere and everyone is going to be one sometime.<BR></P> <P>edit: Ahm no full group should go out without 1 tank, 2 different types of healers, and 3 dps. </P> <P> </P> <P>any full group can do anything they want, thanks for telling me how I need to have my groups btw, anways, if you have a good tank then 1 healer and 4 dps is better, faster xp, faster kills means easier for 1 healer to manage. And 1 healer can manage some high dps output heroic mobs. And I know its not only templars that can do it, most the healers in my guild can do it cause we 90% of the time only take 1 healer in xp groups. <BR></P></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><p>Message Edited by Dekedar on <span class=date_text>10-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:27 AM</span>

SenorPhrog

10-02-2005, 06:45 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>Dekedar wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <blockquote><span> <blockquote> </blockquote> <p>No 6458 posts just means I've seen tired whiny drivel like this 100's of times. </p> <p>actually it means you've seen it 1000's of times, and responded each time, most likely the majority if the time in favor of SoE. 6k posts... that must have taken literally months logged into reading these forums, not a burn, more power to you.</p> <p>Eh, I can't completely agree with this maddog dude, but I can't compeltely disagree. He complained too much and a little too far on things, but he's right, the majority is not happy with the expansion, we just "deal with it" and that is a fact.</p> <p>Ppl always complain about flamers, every board I've ever been to, but its kinda like an [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], they're everwherei and everyone is going to be one sometime.</p></span></blockquote></blockquote> <hr></blockquote>I'm not really sure to take this as you insulting me or just stating your opinion but I can stay civil either way. For starters please don't have the pretense of thinking you know what I post. If you have really gone back through 6k posts I'd be every impressed. I don't "respond in the favor of SOE" I respond in the favor of logic and reasonable expectations which this thread has none of so far. Starting a thread saying "Everybody is unhappy" is not only foolish is far from true. For every complainer I've seen up here I've seen 2 or 3 people that like the changes (which I do for the most part). The game actually has challenge now and this is where the Devs wanted Templars (along with all the other changed classes) to be at. Its almost a cliche to say it but if Maddog is really that angry and upset about where the game has gone maybe its time to head in a different direction.</span><div></div>

Supernova17

10-03-2005, 12:55 AM

<span><blockquote><hr>Maddog5150 wrote:<div></div> <div> <p><span><font color="#ffffff"></font></span> </p> <p><span><font color="#ffffff">I get a kick out of those who are so quick jump on anyone who voices their dislike and opinions with the new changes.Keep it up; maybe you should try reading other forums.<font color="#ff0000"> I do, maybe you should try playing other classes and make your own opinions like I do (high level Templar, Warlock and Paladin)</font> Everyone is upset and very few players are happy be it for the same few who parse these boards. You who and are so quick to defend a broken mistake of an end of content dumb down fix. I wonder sometimes if you’re playing the same game or if you play at all. <font color="#ff0000">There was alot of things wrong with the game. Mages who sacrifice everything should be able to do more damage than a plate wearing tank. Plate wearing tanks should not be able to avoid attacks 100% or more by mobs of the same level. Scouts should have been doing more damage since they attacked at the rear and flanks of an enemy where it's defenses would be minimal to match up with a Mage's ability to nuke from any direction. Classes should not have been able to solo Epics of equal con and should find it next to impossible to solo ^^^ mobs of the same or higher con. Just giving examples. There was alot wrong, and even so not all of it has been fixed yet.</font> </font></span></p> <p><span><font color="#ffffff">Go read the other Priests forums calling for yet more dumbing down of the Templer class. <font color="#ff0000">The other Priest classes calling for a dumb down of the Templar are one in the same. They are the whiners unwilling to adapt to the changes and make the best of their class. It is impossible that dozens of healers I know and respect say they can play their class just fine and all of the whiners cannot.</font> Go read the posts about Guardians who can no longer tank <font color="#ff0000">(strange, I've had Guardians chain pulling to maintain exp. Maybe there is a problem with those whiney healers not supporting their tank)</font> and Guilds that can no longer raid. <font color="#ff0000">(these were the guilds that had the toughest time learning how to raid, copied others and just had the determination to keep dying untill they pulled it off. These guilds didn't study the damge types done by mobs and do everything in their power to place the appropriate classes in the proper groups)</font> Monks of all classes are now the best tank class! <font color="#ff0000">(Monks are a class, not classes and while they can tank, I rather enjoy expierenced Paladins and Berserkers tanking, it's a Templar thing =/ )</font> I wonder if you have played since the 21st when yellow ^ and up mobs have been made harder to hit and kill. <font color="#ff0000">(yes, this is a common problem with tanks, see putting themselves in Defense stance massively lowers their Crushing / Slashing / Piercing stats to allow them to take less damage during the fight but also puts them to where it is extremly hard to hit higher con mobs. In offensive stance, the opposite is true and their weapon stats are raised to where they CAN hit the mob and do damage. I talk with many expierenced tanks and play a 45 Paladin myself, so I can form my own opinions)</font> Oh did I say kill how about unkillable and all Heroic's are now way stronger than before. <font color="#ff0000">(I haven't seen any of these mythical Heroics, where might they be hiding?)</font> I too play a Templer and cannot keep up with my healing. Please don’t Blah blah me about my level, the armour im wearing and what mobs. You need to go read the screaming {"wheres the balence"} Druid and Shaman forums complaining that Templers are the only class that can solo heal a group. Heck you may as well go to thier forums and agree with them.<font color="#ff0000"> (this is a matter of opinion and in-expierence, not facts. I regularly run a group solo/duo heal while Furies or Defilers etc solo heal their own exp groups)</font>Dof loot is pure crap, and if we shouldn’t be killing Heroic mobs why are there so many, and no I shouldn’t have to kill green mobs 11 or 12 levels below with 3 to 4 people to have a chance to see a chest. <font color="#ff0000">(bug in the game with chests not dropping at a proper rate in some zones, Sony is working on fixes. May I direct your attention to Silent City? You want loot, that is the place to be)</font> List all the new and past Non Heroic Instances in DoF. Last time I posted it was suggested that I go to Hardclve for loot. I'm sick of Hardclave and why did I pay 29.99 per account? To go back to Hardclave to finally see a few chest, please!!This game has been so dumbed down to the same solo no loot mobs with classes being made to all do the same things. Why Sony do you boast having so many classes and races to choose from when you only have 5 or 6 being molded to be the same. I have a great idea maybe alll classes should be able to Heal, Rez, SoW and Tank the same. Then you can give them T-shirts with big S on them and the ability to fly around Tall Buildings.Wake up Sony and stop ignoring your fan base you are driving this game into the ground like SWG, Ac2 and DoC. <font color="#ff0000">(the fan base is in three parts, the 80% of us who adapt and move on to continue playing in game, the 5% of us doing that and comming here to defend our classes and flame people like you, and the 15% who don't bother playing more than 30 minutes before comming here and whining about everything)</font>What do I do now? I have done all the faction quests and so far all you could come up for me in new content is one long post level 50 Heritage Quests for a crap level 40 item that 90% of us cant weild? <font color="#ff0000">(the one point we agree on, the lackluster HQ)</font> </font></span></p> <p><span><font color="#ffffff"> Defend that all mighty we love the changes Templer's and you are soon to get us nerfed again. <font color="#ff0000">(yes, please cry for nerf's instead of fixes, it amazes me how dumb you can be. So you think one class is good while the other2 or 3 totally suck? Fine, lets nerf the good class and now all the classes suck, good going re-[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]!! Fix things that are broken instead of breaking things that are fixed! And to quote Star Wars, "what happens to one of you (class) will directly affect the other, you must understand this...")</font> </font></span></p> <p><span></span> </p> <p><span>Maddog5150</span></p></div><hr></blockquote><b><font color="#ff0000">FLAMED! </font></b><font color="#ffffff">Just stop playing now, you obviously don't enjoy the game. Stop trying to ruin the EQ expierence for the rest of us. </font><b><font color="#ff0000"> </font></b></span><div></div>

Elya

10-03-2005, 06:32 PM

Supernova.. we are not worthy =P Good post =) I am a templar. I solo. I duo, I can kill just fine thanks, as long as I am not UNREALISTIC about what I attack. Good god, I actually have to THINK now =P Nothing was dumbed down. it was smartened up!

dwor

10-03-2005, 07:35 PM

<SPAN class=time_text><FONT size=2> <P>I kinda have to agree with the original poster some what. At first I had an open mind to the new changes and thought well I can make this work. After grouping several times and getting squat for exp, and my reactives stealing agro from the tank on the fist hit and tanks not being able to hold agro. I found my exhausted after only about an hour of play. Then came the times I would solo stuff, I can solo ok but interrupt’s and fizzes are so annoying along with the fact that it takes for ever to kill a mob then you see some ranger or wiz take the same mob in 10 seconds that it took me almost 2 mins. <BR>Ya kinda lose faith. </P> <P>Not that I have raided since but LU 13 has made almost all the old world content undoable at level 50. This is fine for all the guilds that had pretty much farmed out these and already have their fabled gear. But for the rest of us it means we wont be doing these mobs till we hit 60 and all the stuff they drop is grey.</P> <P>I not having fun anymore, and I find it a chore to even log on now. btw I think DoF is a fantastic expansion just to bad they ruined it with LU13 . I'm not gonna say fix this or that but if this is what SoE wants to do I think its time for change. So sad to since I have been here since beta and really had fun but seems like it its not the same game any more and probably wont be the same game in 6 more months when they will change everything again</P></FONT></SPAN> <P>Message Edited by dworkk on <SPAN class=date_text>10-03-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:40 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by dworkk on <span class=date_text>10-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:41 PM</span>

Reav

10-03-2005, 09:35 PM

<P>Thats funny, just by reading your posts here Radar, Maddog thinks he know everything about you. Ive read a few of your replies to different subjects, while I don't always agree with them, they are usually rather good replies...and not always on the side of SOE.</P> <P>You said not to bring up armor and such, Maddog, but that can be a major part of your problem. Are you trying to solo anything while wearing a robe? Are you trying to solo ^^^ mobs or groups of mobs that are not atleast v each? Do you actually play a Templar? Im a lvl 52 Templar, Ive gotten from 50 to 52 by doing mostly quests and soloing. I have soloed about 7 or 8 of the solo named mobs around which have been anywhere from white ^ to yellow ^. Ive died a few times, yes, but I just had to figure out a tactic to beat them. We are not broken, we heal just fine, unless your on the same mentality of the person I was arguing in channel with the other day....he was stating that all his heals refreshed at the same time...While I will agree we are a little low on the group utility mode, and I think we should be given single and group invis vs undead atleast, I do not in any way believe we are broken. Gods forbid we would have to do a little thinking to actually play a game, that would just be uncalled for...thinking in a game...who came up with that idea? Do you know what the definition of a game is? Its not just some mindless thing for enjoyment. Games were made to test ones abilities and to expand said abilities. Are you going to go play chess and complain about losing cause your Rook can't move diagonally?</P> <P>You say that its always the same people here trying to argue that the changes are good, well its always the same people that come here flaming the changes to. Get over yourself and either go play the game and adapt, or go somewhere else. </P>

Ixtl

10-03-2005, 09:45 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Maddog5150 wrote:<BR> <P>Come on dude take the blinders off with over 6000 posts go find a new hobby !</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Hey, person with no posts, I have two recommendations for you: Number one, learn how to write a complete sentence. Number two, try not being a complete jerkface to others.</DIV>

BenEm

10-03-2005, 10:46 PM

<DIV>Game is a lot better now post LU13 ! I nearly have to pay attention to what I am doing ....and thats cool ! They just need to replace our Mezz line and I would be thrilled . Personally it stilll seems I can solo exp faster than group exp .</DIV>

Celestian_

10-04-2005, 04:07 AM

<div></div>What is it with this "dumbed down" stuff? Does he mean nerf the templar by that statement? I don't get it... he seems to use it with multiple meanings. Having a game thats easy to play is not dumbed down. By easy to play I don't mean you just get 10 levels for walking into a new zone either. I mean the UI and gameplay leans towards intuitive not abstract and/or tedious for no reason. Anyway, not sure what he is really b itching about asside from the fact we're not like we used to be. I'm not 100% on board with all the changes myself but I'm not sure any other healer is as good as we are... though I really think our utility blows... mez? I mean come on why do they want us to monitor mobs and players... players health is more than enough to keep someone busy. Drop the mez junk or at least make it a fire and forget... i.e. something that lasts a decent period of time. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Celestian_GC on <span class=date_text>10-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:08 PM</span>

Lumens

10-04-2005, 05:59 AM

At level 47 the game has became worthless to me. Nothing to solo, or almost close to zero XP if I did. Nowhere to group at my level. Yes, I do know how to play my class. Already made one (Templar) to 50, but did not have the group cures.. how cool now that I rolled a second to 47, to get it right, & now all I have done is taken away. Rode down to CT (now very dangerous journey for me now) at peak time, did a /who... I was the only one there. The only people happy now are the long time level 50's with Adept III's & Master spells, fabled kit etc. Supernova comes to mind, kinda irritating example, but always has the same point to make<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Those who still enjoy, fair play. I have my apartment in QH, Eldarrian Charger & enough coin to manage, but no enthusiasm anymore. Playing another game, you know which one, is so very much better (no 100 hour camps, I think 4 mins so far is max) & due to my error (did not scroll to the very bottom of the screen) I am still subscribed here till the 16th. Oct. And, yes... I will close the door behind me & no, you cannot have my stuff<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Have.. ummm fun? I don't think so

Supernova17

10-04-2005, 10:55 AM

Yeah, go have fun in WoW, once you reach level 60 there, you'll realize there's nothing to do beyond lame pvp at the best. And just remember one thing about what you said in regards to me: I started as a Level 2 Commoner on the Island of Refugee just like everyone else. Descartin is my first main character and was never twinked by a higer level player. I worked hard for everything I have, surrounded myself with friends / allies and joined a great end-game guild. There is nothing preventing anyone else from doing this except those who procrastinate about doing anything and just sit there expecting the world to be handed to them. My Fabled gear comes from raiding, even if only for a few hours a night, but I had to sit there working my way up untill I was allowed to bid on and afford (dkp) gear. All of my spells were made from raid dropped rares, rares that dropped when I killed named mobs, harvested or bought with my *then* limited money. If being a high level player with good gear and spells means soo much to you that you think it affects your base skill, then prove your worth to the server's top guild(s). You must always strive to improve your character if you want to continue enjoying the game. <div></div>

Tanit

10-04-2005, 03:05 PM

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Maddog5150 wrote:<div></div> <div> <p><span></span> <span><font color="#ffffff">I get a kick out of those who are so quick jump on anyone who voices their dislike and opinions with the new changes.Keep it up; maybe you should try reading other forums. Everyone is upset and very few players are happy be it for the same few who parse these boards. </font></span></p> <p><span><font color="#ffffff"><font color="#ffff99">hahahaha</font> </font></span></p> <p><span><font color="#ffffff">You who and are so quick to defend a broken mistake of an end of content dumb down fix. I wonder sometimes if you’re playing the same game or if you play at all. <font color="#ffff99">I'm wondering the same. Perhaps you spent too much time crying on the forums, instead of actually playing.</font> </font></span></p> <p><span><font color="#ffffff">Go read the other Priests forums calling for yet more dumbing down of the Templer class. Go read the posts about Guardians who can no longer tank and Guilds that can no longer raid. Monks of all classes are now the best tank class! </font></span></p> <p><font color="#ffff99">Of all classes? It's a tank, so they're supposed to tank well. Plate tanks, however, are still better. Guardians can tank fine, but now other classes are viable as well, as it should be.</font> <span></span></p> <p><span><font color="#ffffff">I wonder if you have played since the 21st when yellow ^ and up mobs have been made harder to hit and kill. </font></span></p> <p><font color="#ffff99"><span>Yellows are still a walk-over. Orange and red are hard to hit though, as they should be.</span></font></p> <p><span><font color="#ffffff">Oh did I say kill how about unkillable and all Heroic's are now way stronger than before. </font></span></p> <p><span><font color="#ffffff"><font color="#ffff99">All heroics are unkillabale?? If i would take you seriously, which i dont, that would stop after reading this</font><font color="#ffff99"> line.</font> </font></span></p> <p><span><font color="#ffffff">I too play a Templer and cannot keep up with my healing. Please don’t Blah blah me about my level, the armour im wearing and what mobs. </font></span></p> <p><span><font color="#ffffff"><font color="#ffff99">I suggest you stop sucking at this game.</font> </font></span></p> <p><span><font color="#ffffff">You need to go read the screaming {"wheres the balence"} Druid and Shaman forums complaining that Templers are the only class that can solo heal a group. Heck you may as well go to thier forums and agree with them.</font></span></p> <p><font color="#ffff99"><span>Shamans and clerics can keep tanks up alone fine. I'm only in groups with 1 healer, so i know. The weakest healer is clearly the warden (no im not one).</span></font></p> <p><span><font color="#ffffff">Dof loot is pure crap </font></span></p> <p><span><span><font color="#ffffff"><font color="#ffff99">I'm actually surprised how good a lot of the treasured loot is. Some of it is close to my T5 fabled gear. </font> </font></span></span><span><font color="#ffffff">and if we shouldn’t be killing Heroic mobs why are there so many, </font></span></p> <p><font color="#ffff99"><span>Some like grouping with other players (wow!)</span></font></p> <p><span><font color="#ffffff">and no I shouldn’t have to kill green mobs 11 or 12 levels below with 3 to 4 people to have a chance to see a chest. </font></span></p> <p><span><font color="#ffffff"><font color="#ffff99">There are TONS of solo mobs (+ nameds). If you can't find them you must be blind or clueless. My guess is it's the latter.</font> </font></span></p> <p><span><font color="#ffffff">What do I do now? I have done all the faction quests and so far all you could come up for me in new content is one long post level 50 Heritage Quests for a crap level 40 item that 90% of us cant weild?</font></span></p> </div><font color="#ffff99">Wow i agree! Hope there are quite a few hq's not discovered yet...</font><hr></blockquote></span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Tanith_ on <span class=date_text>10-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:06 PM</span>

Bjerde

10-04-2005, 06:44 PM

<P>Templars are good healers. Everyone still need to realize that you cannot fight oranges very easily. Fight blue/white/yellows. They frop faster, you kill more, and get more xp as a result. If you do this, one healer is all you need. If your group is 51 and fighting 57-59 heroic cyclops or giants, you will not do so well.</P> <P>I have fought with a high level Guardian and a high level Monk. The monk could tank ok, but when he did get hit....it was for a lot. Also, I noticed since he avoids more than the plate tank, my reactives are not as effective.....he doesn't get hit as much, so they dont fire as much. Not a huge problem, but I did notice it as I was healing. I had to throw in more spot heals for the big damage, since he would get hit once, drop to yellow, but then would avoid the next few hits....making the reactives stacked on him useless.</P> <P>Not hard, just different.</P> <P>I am lvl 58 now, it gets eaiser....you need your T6 heals to fight these guys. The Master II of Greater Intercession rocks.....get your "secret spell" Reverence, use Glory of Combat on two party members with your extra conc slot now, use Atoning Fate during every group mob battle. You have lots of little tools to help you heal better, use them.</P> <P>Lastly, make sure you all upgrade your spells and take the Master II HEALS</P> <P> </P>

dwor

10-04-2005, 09:04 PM

<P>FYI Templars should not be just good healers they should be the best! We give up utility to be a specialized healer. I know the druids and shamans were screaming that they couldlnt heal as well as clerics but yanno what ? Templars dont have group invis, evac, slows, and speed buffs. All I had was cures and heals and know my heals barely bettr then druids or shamans who by thay now have some of the cures I used to have and still have group invis or evac ect...</P> <P>So After thinking it over and as this second time that SoE has screwed my class once in EQ1 and now here I will not be playing any more SoE games. Not gonna play that other game either :smileytongue:</P> <P>its was a fun few years but its time to play game thats fun </P><p>Message Edited by dworkk on <span class=date_text>10-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:05 AM</span>

Eileithia

10-04-2005, 10:44 PM

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dworkk wrote:<BR> <P>FYI Templars should not be just good healers they should be the best! We give up utility to be a specialized healer. I know the druids and shamans were screaming that they couldlnt heal as well as clerics but yanno what ? Templars dont have group invis, evac, slows, and speed buffs. All I had was cures and heals and know my heals barely bettr then druids or shamans who by thay now have some of the cures I used to have and still have group invis or evac ect... <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>These are my favorite posts.. You have Mit Buffs AND debuffs (Increase DPS)... you have the ability to short term mez, as well you have a DD that mezzez (Lower DPS / aka slow) you have Odessy (We get SoW) You have Reactive / Direct / Proc Heals .. ie.. more ways to actually HEAL a target.. you have the largest direct heals in the game, and can handle spike damage better than any other priest class.. Parse a fight using ALL of your spells / abilities (Not just the one or 2 you used before), and you will see that you are in fact still the top of the healing food chain for HP healed.</P> <P>Yes.. I have wards.. are they as efficient as a reactive? that's up for debate.. you heal on every hit it's up for a set amount.. and I take the full damage even if it will drop my ward in one hit.. then I have to wait for the recast timer.. I'd assume it would be very close in the end if you take everything into account.. how I deal with the ward issue.. I slow the mob so they hit less frequently, so when they pound my ward in one shot that next hit isn't so fast that I'm helpless.. It does all work out in the end.. I would think that a Cleric would not want to Slow a mob because it would slow down your reactive healing, and proc healing.. but again that's something to debate in another thread..</P> <P>I'm not usually one for flaming a poster, but I find that it's the un-educated players that don't realize what they're capable of, or are not using their "Utility" to their full ability and in the end [Removed for Content] that they can't stack 3 reactive and go for a coffee. It is definitely more challenging.. but that was the whole point of this revamp.. it was WAY too easy before..<BR></P> <P>Oh.. and on the I don't haves that you do... I don't have reactives, I don't have proc heals, I don't have odessy, I don't have Mit Debuffs, I can't mez a target, and I don't have as many ways to "Heal" a target as you do.. We're all in the same boat.. we just brought different luggage =P</P> <P>Oh.. and PS.. on the Cures.. Templars AND Wardens has all group cures.. you weren't alone on that before the revamp.. and we ALL only group cure 2 effects.. (Crushing / Slashing / Piercing, and either Magic/devine, Elemental, or Poison/Disease)</P>

Celestian_

10-04-2005, 11:26 PM

<span><blockquote><hr>Duntzzzz wrote:<div> </div><p>These are my favorite posts.. You have Mit Buffs AND debuffs (Increase DPS)... you have the ability to short term mez, as well you have a DD that mezzez (Lower DPS / aka slow) you have Odessy (We get SoW) You have Reactive / Direct / Proc Heals .. ie.. more ways to actually HEAL a target.. you have the largest direct heals in the game, and can handle spike damage better than any other priest class.. Parse a fight using ALL of your spells / abilities (Not just the one or 2 you used before), and you will see that you are in fact still the top of the healing food chain for HP healed.</p><hr></blockquote> Wow, that phsical mit debuff really does a lot. I use it and notice exactly nothing. Short term mez? It's half-mez and only 12 seconds... and guess what? I rather pay attention to health than try and maintain a single half-mez spell, please that spell is so situational it's not even funny. DD that mezzes? what planet are you on???? </span><span> I thought perhaps we had them beat (inqs) with our single stun but friend tells me he has 2 and one is aoe w/detaunt. Involutary/Mark line is a joke. I don't even bother less the mob is triple up or epic. </span><span>I'm not saying Mystic's dont have problems... I don't play one but I can assure you compared to inqs utility spells our's suck anus. Root, fear, stuns, stiffles and this cool spell that will nuke & knockback when a beneficial spell is cast. The best thing we have as templars is benefaction... I try not to get into the grass greener on the other field sorta thing but after playing and chatting with my INQ friend I'n beginning to think that is the case. </span><div></div>

Eileithia

10-04-2005, 11:57 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Celestian_GC wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR>Wow, that phsical mit debuff really does a lot. I use it and notice exactly nothing.<BR><FONT color=#cc0000>What you notice, and what actually happens are 2 different things.. Tested this with a Templar in my guild, and there is a noticable increase in DPS from the melee classes in the group, so I would say that it is beneficial</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Short term mez? It's half-mez and only 12 seconds... and guess what? I rather pay attention to health than try and maintain a single half-mez spell, please that spell is so situational it's not even funny.<BR></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#cc0000>Our debuffs, that you are so fond of have about the same durration, and must be chain cast to be maintained. Again.. not using all of the utillities available to you and saying that you are sub-par does not hold much weight</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>DD that mezzes? what planet are you on????<BR><FONT color=#cc0000>Must be a stun then, I can't remember the name of the spell, but there is a short durration stun / stifle / mez or something like it on one of your DD's .. as I have a Nox Mit Debuff with mine.. (I'd take the stun)</FONT></SPAN></P><SPAN> <P><BR>I thought perhaps we had them beat (inqs) with our single stun but friend tells me he has 2 and one is aoe w/detaunt.<BR><FONT color=#cc0000>All priest have some form of an AOE Detaunt.. yours is a short mez.. I have a 3 second fear (Yes.. only 3 second) but if that's all you need to get the mobs back on the tank, than you use it when necessary.. (15 minute recast to boot)</FONT></P> <P>Involutary/Mark line is a joke. I don't even bother less the mob is triple up or epic.<BR><FONT color=#cc0000>Again, we're back to the using the tools provided to you.. I have a spell line (Bane of shielding) that procs a ward.. not much different.. can only be used on one mob, but when it procs you will be thankful you cast it.</FONT></P> <P><BR></SPAN><SPAN>I'm not saying Mystic's dont have problems... I don't play one but I can assure you compared to inqs utility spells our's suck anus. Root, fear, stuns, stiffles and this cool spell that will nuke & knockback when a beneficial spell is cast. The best thing we have as templars is benefaction...<BR><FONT color=#cc0000>For all posters out there.. Not all shamen are "Mystics" Mystics are a subclass of Shamen, as is Defiler.. I'm just pointing this out because I see this everywhere.. priests being referred to as Druid / Shamen / Cleric.. or more frequently as Templars / Mystics / Wardens.. Us evil players never seem to get noticed :smileywink:</FONT></SPAN></P> <P> </P> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>What I'm trying to point out here is that you can no-longer cast your 1-3 spells and hope things to be OK.. There is never a point in a fight where I am not casting a spell.. if my heal timers are down.. I debuff, or DD, or something to effect the fight.. Make sure you use ALL of your abilities to their fullest, they are there for a reason.. there are very few spells that are a "Waste of time".. yes they are there, but if you time them right, and use them when you can, you will see a noticeable difference in the outcome of your battles.. The healers that get the most praise (Especially after the revamp) are the ones that use every tool in their belt to do the job.. I'm not trying to say that you "Don't know how to play your class" I don't know how you play, but I'm making a suggestion that you look at spells you never thought of using before and see where it can benefit you now.. Every spell has a reason for being there.. use them to their full potential, and you will be astonished with the results!</P> <P>This revamp definatly rewards the Skilled players, and the ones who have taken the time to adjust to the change.. the ones I find that are the most frustrated, are the ones who are sticking to the "Old ways" and cannot re-form their thinking and don't understand why they can't do what they used to.. You can no-longer "Watch the Tanks HP and heal accordingly" those days are gone, and not comming back.. you need to not only watch the tanks HP, but do some CC, and Debuffing, and Damage to be the most efficient "Healer" you can be.</P> <P>Yes there are still a lot of bugs, and I pray to the SOE gods that they get fixed, and fixed quickly.. Priest stacking issues are on the top of my list, and Plate tank mitigation numbers being a very close second. <BR></P> <P>Message Edited by Duntzzzz on <SPAN class=date_text>10-04-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:01 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Duntzzzz on <span class=date_text>10-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:14 PM</span>

Supernova17

10-05-2005, 12:06 AM

<span><blockquote><hr>Celestian_GC wrote:<span> DD that mezzes? what planet are you on???? <font color="#6633ff">Turn melee off for a second before you use Condeming Smite and don't have the Faith line (dot) going when you use the Smite. It will pacify the target for about 2-3 seconds so you can HO nuke Condeming Smite and not be interrupted while casting our Strike line to finish the HO etc.</font> </span><span> I thought perhaps we had them beat (inqs) with our single stun but friend tells me he has 2 and one is aoe w/detaunt. <font color="#6633ff">Harmony and Greater Harmony. It AOE pacifies targets and prevents them from making any attacks for a short duration and lowers our hate in the thousands. 5 minute recast timer, the Inquisitor has a similar spell with the same reuse. Heck, all priests have a variation of that, it's not unique.</font> Involutary/Mark line is a joke. I don't even bother less the mob is triple up or epic. <font color="#6633ff"> </font><font color="#6633ff">Curate line proc's not only a heal, but also cures trauma impairments when it does fire. Helps remove those pesky Wound / Vanquish / Numbing Strike / etc that stack up on the tank. The Mark line proc's far more often and has been toned down in total HP accordingly. It does suck I guess, but it also lowers a targets divine resistance which lets a Templar and / or Paladin hit the mob better and harder.</font> </span><span>I try not to get into the grass greener on the other field sorta thing but after playing and chatting with my INQ friend I'n beginning to think that is the case. <font color="#6633ff"> </font></span><font color="#6633ff">Inquisitor's sacrifice things like heal proc's, certian Templar buffs and larger direct healing to have their utility. The grass is not greener for sure.</font> <hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

dwor

10-05-2005, 12:11 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Duntzzzz wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dworkk wrote:<BR> <P>FYI Templars should not be just good healers they should be the best! We give up utility to be a specialized healer. I know the druids and shamans were screaming that they couldlnt heal as well as clerics but yanno what ? Templars dont have group invis, evac, slows, and speed buffs. All I had was cures and heals and know my heals barely bettr then druids or shamans who by thay now have some of the cures I used to have and still have group invis or evac ect...</P> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>These are my favorite posts.. You have Mit Buffs AND debuffs (Increase DPS)... you have the ability to short term mez, as well you have a DD that mezzez (Lower DPS / aka slow) you have Odessy (We get SoW) You have Reactive / Direct / Proc Heals .. ie.. more ways to actually HEAL a target.. you have the largest direct heals in the game, and can handle spike damage better than any other priest class.. Parse a fight using ALL of your spells / abilities (Not just the one or 2 you used before), and you will see that you are in fact still the top of the healing food chain for HP healed.</P> <P> </P> <P>I'm not usually one for flaming a poster, but I find that it's the un-educated players that don't realize what they're capable of, or are not using their "Utility" to their full ability and in the end [Removed for Content] that they can't stack 3 reactive and go for a coffee. It is definitely more challenging.. but that was the whole point of this revamp.. it was WAY too easy before..<BR></P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><BR> </P> <P> </P> <P><BR></P> <P></P> <HR> <P>You better look at your self when you talk about uneductated, Ive played EQ1 for over 3 years in a high end raiding guild, played EQ2 since Beta and I know my Class and i know how to play this game I consired to be a very good player on my server . As for content stuff being way to easy before i agree but the way the did the combat revamp was all wrong . 99% of the players found most content a challenge before except for the high end raid mobs which imo were to easy what need to be done was retune those encounters not change the whole game.</P> <P>Read the above post about our great mez ! like I have time to ever cast it. and ill take poison elemental and disease cures any day since that is what raid mobs usally cast</P> <P>And dont make me laugh this game or any mmo isnt about any skills All it takes is a PC and isp</P> <P>oh and if i was a warden i wouldnt be complaining either since you defenitly got the better end of LU13 then clerics, oh ill trade evac for our mez any day<BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blast2hell

10-05-2005, 12:15 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dworkk wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> And dont make me laugh this game or any mmo isnt about any skills All it takes is a PC and isp</P></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Are you serious? Hehe. I have another PC and ISP...I guess I can get my 2 year old to play.</DIV>

dwor

10-05-2005, 12:24 AM

<DIV>guy in our guild had his 4 year old playing and he was in PUG and everyone thought he did great, just quiet since his typing skills were a bit lacking. None of the other members in the group had a clue he even got few complements</DIV>

Eileithia

10-05-2005, 12:24 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dworkk wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>You better look at your self when you talk about uneductated, Ive played EQ1 for over 3 years in a high end raiding guild, played EQ2 since Beta and I know my Class and i know how to play this game I consired to be a very good player on my server<BR><FONT color=#cc0000>Your first mistake.. This is NOT EQ1.. Clerics are no-longer the be-all and end-all of the healing classes. I'm not saying you are a bad player, or that you are not skilled. I'm saying you need to use all of your abilities to be the "Best" of your class.</FONT></P> <P> As for content stuff being way to easy before i agree but the way the did the combat revamp was all wrong . 99% of the players found most content a challenge before except for the high end raid mobs which imo were to easy what need to be done was retune those encounters not change the whole game.</P> <P>Read the above post about our great mez ! like I have time to ever cast it. <BR><FONT color=#cc0000>Casting it gives you time.. that's kind of the point.</FONT></P> <P>and ill take poison elemental and disease cures any day since that is what raid mobs usally cast<BR><FONT color=#cc0000>Poison.. that's all I have.. and that's not all the mobs.. there are situations where I'd want each of the cures, but I don't have them.. none of us do.. none of us will.</FONT></P> <P>And dont make me laugh this game or any mmo isnt about any skills All it takes is a PC and isp<BR><FONT color=#cc0000>And it's that thinking that is causing you the problems.. There are DEFINATLEY good and bad players.. Tanks that don't know how to controll aggro, Healers who don't know how to keep a group alive, Scouts that don't know how to scout, or even get behind mobs for that matter.. and Mages that think the best way to nuke is early and often</FONT></P> <P>oh and if i was a warden i wouldnt be complaining either since you defenitly got the better end of LU13 then clerics, oh ill trade evac for our mez any day<BR><FONT color=#cc0000>IF I was a Warden, I'd be [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing like crazy.. they definately got the short end of the stick on this revamp.. they cannot effectively handle ANY spike damage, and I hope for thier sake that this get's fixed pronto.. good thing they have evac.. at the moment THEY NEED IT!</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Anyhow. this is starting to get far from civil, so I'll end my rant there.</DIV>

dwor

10-05-2005, 12:35 AM

the 12 sec mez is worthless and i dont have time to cast it between all the agro my reactives create now, and chain healing to keep the tank alive. Maybe you should roll a templar and see how much fun its. The point im making is Not that i Cant keep my group healed anymore, cause i can and do it well. My point is its not fun. It is plain annoying now.

Kendricke

10-05-2005, 12:40 AM

<P>Duntzzz,</P> <P>That was a great analysis. Keep it up.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

Kendricke

10-05-2005, 12:45 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dworkk wrote:<BR> the 12 sec mez is worthless and i dont have time to cast it between all the agro my reactives create now, and chain healing to keep the tank alive. Maybe you should roll a templar and see how much fun its. The point im making is Not that i Cant keep my group healed anymore, cause i can and do it well. My point is its not fun. It is plain annoying now.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>How horrific is your tank...and what are you fighting that makes it so difficult to keep your tank alive? </P> <P>Yes, prior to the revamp, my groups would routinely take on yellow or even orange (or red) content without much fear. Now, we think at least twice before hitting your average orange heroic. However, when we stick to white or yellow, it's fairly consistent and hitting blues are just plain easy. You can't ignore the con right now. You HAVE to keep those colors and arrows in mind.</P> <P>Now, I'll grant you that I'm not using Sign of Infirmity in full groups all that much, but I'm certainly using it in smaller groups or when soloing. It's simply too good not to use it. When I'm having trouble casting that Crucial Intercession, I quickly throw out a Sign and then follow up with the reactive now that I have the time to actually use it. </P> <P>It's situational. Not every spell will be great in every situation...but it's good to have available for that time when it works.</P> <P>If you can't find a use for it, then that's certainly for you to determine on your own as a Templar. As far as I'm concerned, it's earned a permanent place in slot ALT+3.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

SenorPhrog

10-05-2005, 12:54 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dworkk wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You better look at your self when you talk about uneductated, Ive played EQ1 for over 3 years in a high end raiding guild, played EQ2 since Beta and I know my Class and i know how to play this game I consired to be a very good player on my server . As for content stuff being way to easy before i agree but the way the did the combat revamp was all wrong . 99% of the players found most content a challenge before except for the high end raid mobs which imo were to easy what need to be done was retune those encounters not change the whole game.</P> <P>Read the above post about our great mez ! like I have time to ever cast it. and ill take poison elemental and disease cures any day since that is what raid mobs usally cast</P> <P>And dont make me laugh this game or any mmo isnt about any skills All it takes is a PC and isp</P> <P>oh and if i was a warden i wouldnt be complaining either since you defenitly got the better end of LU13 then clerics, oh ill trade evac for our mez any day<BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Everybody already took all the good stuff to say so I'm just going to laugh. If you are sooooo good why are you having so many problems? I know at least half a dozen Templars who have managed to adjust and they don't have even a quarter of the experience you claim to have (or even 10% of your ego). The stuff before LU13f was so not challenging at all but then again if you actually kept up with what the Devs said you might understand that. 99%? It drives me nuts when people just start making crap up. You know what I heard? I heard that 99% of the Templars like the changes. See? I can make up crap too.</P> <P>I wasn't challenged in a group pre LU 13 and I guarantee I'm not alone so please just stop before you make yourself look even more foolish. I use my mez all the time soloing and have no issue with it now granted I don't have your high and mighty "skillz" but somehow I manage to switch targets, mez, and get back to my original target. I guess I got "skillz" too.</P>

Eileithia

10-05-2005, 01:13 AM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dworkk wrote:<BR> the 12 sec mez is worthless and i dont have time to cast it between all the agro my reactives create now, and chain healing to keep the tank alive. Maybe you should roll a templar and see how much fun its. The point im making is Not that i Cant keep my group healed anymore, cause i can and do it well. My point is its not fun. It is plain annoying now.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Please don't talk to a Defiler about annoyance when healing. We spent 12 months with broken wards (Did not take mitigation into account) we had to resort to Spamming spells (Heals and Debuffs alike) where as the clerics could cast a couple reactives and go for tea and crumpets while the rest of the group killed the mob.</P> <P>You should never be in a situation after this revamp where you are not casting some form of spell at any given time. If you are finding that you are able to cast one or two reactives and keep things going smoothly, then you need to start hitting harder targets. Healing should be a Challenge.. it should NOT be a walk in the park.. and if you are going back to "Spamming heals" or are having aggro issues, than you are obviously doing something wrong or you need to hunt somewhere else.. You should ONLY need to spam direct heals if the group gets in troubble (Some adds, or aggro going to a mage).. and when the group gets in trouble, that's what your AE mez is for.. it gives your group a much needed 3sec to get back on track, get the aggro back on the tank, and get the mobs dead. (Same as my AE Fear.. same as Inqisitors AE Stun.. etc..) I can't believe how many people don't realize how similar our classes actually are.. we all have the same basic 15 lines of spells (Or thereabouts) and it is the effects, potency, timers, and skill that makes us different. We are all Priests.. the end-result is to keep the group alive, but in very different ways.. some are definatley better in situations than others, and there are definately numbers that need to be tweaked here and there, but you are far from sub-par, and have as much utility as any of the other healing classes.</P>

Celestian_

10-05-2005, 03:19 AM

<span><blockquote><hr>Duntzzzz wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div><blockquote><p><span><font color="#cc0000"> What you notice, and what actually happens are 2 different things.. Tested this with a Templar in my guild, and there is a noticable increase in DPS from the melee classes in the group, so I would say that it is beneficial</font></span></p> <p><span></span><span><font color="#cc0000"></font></span></p> <p><span><font color="#cc0000">I've tested with my dps classed friends and the result is nothing of notice.</font></span></p> <p><span><font color="#cc0000"> Our debuffs, that you are so fond of have about the same durration, and must be chain cast to be maintained. Again.. not using all of the utillities available to you and saying that you are sub-par does not hold much weight</font> </span></p> <p><span> Excuse me, I never said we were sub-par. Now, compare having root+fear and stiffle and stun to... our half-azz mes and single stun. </span></p> <p><span> </span></p> <p><span><font color="#cc0000">Must be a stun then, I can't remember the name of the spell, but there is a short durration stun / stifle / mez or something like it on one of your DD's .. as I have a Nox Mit Debuff with mine.. (I'd take the stun)</font></span> We do not have a DD that stuns or mez's or slows. We have 2 DDs and a dot and none of them do that. </p> <span> <p><font color="#cc0000"> All priest have some form of an AOE Detaunt.. yours is a short mez.. I have a 3 second fear (Yes.. only 3 second) but if that's all you need to get the mobs back on the tank, than you use it when necessary.. (15 minute recast to boot) </font></p> <p><font color="#cc0000">I am not talking about harmony. He said he had a AOE stun that detaunted. I specifically asked if he meant harmony and he said no. </font></p> <p><font color="#cc0000"> Again, we're back to the using the tools provided to you.. I have a spell line (Bane of shielding) that procs a ward.. not much different.. can only be used on one mob, but when it procs you will be thankful you cast it. </font></p> <p><font color="#cc0000">Laugh, try using that line of someone with a tin knife in a dragon fight. The procs from these two lines of ours are not even worth the mana unless it's a extended fight. "Our" tools are not nearly as useful as others and the fact we heal the same as others makes the fact worse. </font></p> </span><span><font color="#cc0000"></font></span></blockquote></blockquote> </span><div></div>

Celestian_

10-05-2005, 03:26 AM

<span><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote:<p>Duntzzz,</p> <p>That was a great analysis. Keep it up.</p> <p> </p> <div></div><hr></blockquote> You sir are clueless. </span><div></div>

ChitzDaTroll

10-05-2005, 04:47 AM

<DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Celest, no offense,.. but your an insult to high elves. Stop flaming duntzzz for her very well thought out posts that are right on the money.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>We DO have a [Removed for Content] nuke that pacifies the target after it lands you dolt, read your spell descriptions for tunare's sake.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Condemning Smite. It was REPLIED to you a few posts up by poor ol Supernova I believe it was.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>We DO have an AE "stun" that detaunts. /sigh.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Once again,.. read your spell descpritions.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Yes, it is the Placate line. that before LU13, used to just be an AE hate reducer. Now, its an AE Hate reducer, that stops all mobs in the radius from taking any action for about an 8-12 second length of time,.. reusable every 5 minutes. Whenever there are alot of adds, or we pull a HUGE group of mobs, I always use it a few seconds after engage. It stops the panicking of other groupmates, and lets the tank get a good AE taunt off on the group, plus lets me toss a heal on if needed, before it breaks. A great tool to have available every 5 minutes.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV> <DIV>I swear to Tunare, its starting to turn to where the only templars that post on these boards that Im respecting the opinions of are Supernova, Bjerde, Tanith, Radar, and Kendricke. Hell, I respect Duntzzz for her well thought out posts more then Half of the templars that keep spewing in here,.. and she is a DEFILER!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/Bah</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Morgandothian Gollandal</DIV> <DIV>High Elven Templar, Permafrost</DIV> <DIV>Card carrying member of the 10% Templar Club</DIV></SPAN>

Eileithia

10-05-2005, 05:17 AM

<span><blockquote><hr>ChitzDaTroll wrote:<div></div> <div><span><font color="#ffffff">Celest, no offense,.. but your an insult to high elves. Stop flaming duntzzz for her very well thought out posts that are right on the money.</font></span></div> <div><span><font color="#ffffff"></font></span> </div> <div><span><font color="#ffffff">We DO have a [Removed for Content] nuke that pacifies the target after it lands you dolt, read your spell descriptions for tunare's sake.</font></span></div> <div><span><font color="#ffffff">Condemning Smite. It was REPLIED to you a few posts up by poor ol Supernova I believe it was.</font></span></div> <div><span><font color="#ffffff"></font></span> </div> <div><span><font color="#ffffff">We DO have an AE "stun" that detaunts. /sigh.</font></span></div> <div><span><font color="#ffffff">Once again,.. read your spell descpritions.</font></span></div> <div><span><font color="#ffffff"></font></span> </div> <div><span><font color="#ffffff">Yes, it is the Placate line. that before LU13, used to just be an AE hate reducer. Now, its an AE Hate reducer, that stops all mobs in the radius from taking any action for about an 8-12 second length of time,.. reusable every 5 minutes. Whenever there are alot of adds, or we pull a HUGE group of mobs, I always use it a few seconds after engage. It stops the panicking of other groupmates, and lets the tank get a good AE taunt off on the group, plus lets me toss a heal on if needed, before it breaks. A great tool to have available every 5 minutes.</font></span></div> <div> </div> <div>I swear to Tunare, its starting to turn to where the only templars that post on these boards that Im respecting the opinions of are Supernova, Bjerde, Tanith, Radar, and Kendricke. Hell, I respect Duntzzz for her well thought out posts more then Half of the templars that keep spewing in here,.. and she is a DEFILER!!!</div> <div> </div> <div>/Bah</div> <div> </div> <div>Morgandothian Gollandal</div> <div>High Elven Templar, Permafrost</div> <div>Card carrying member of the 10% Templar Club</div><hr></blockquote>Thank you Morgan.. I'm glad to see there are more than just a few handfull (The ones you listed above) that know what a spell description is, and how to read. I appreciate the templar mindset that you should be the best raw healers.. and as far as HP heald goes.. you ARE.. I have respect for people that do the legwork, and actually look into what they are capable of instead of spewing 3rd hand information all the time with no reguard for what the true information is. Hats off to you and your Templar bretheren that know what's going on /salute</span><div></div>

Eileithia

10-05-2005, 09:06 AM

<span><blockquote><hr>Celestian_GC wrote:<span><blockquote><hr> <blockquote><span><p><font color="#cc0000">Laugh, try using that line of someone with a tin knife in a dragon fight. The procs from these two lines of ours are not even worth the mana unless it's a extended fight. "Our" tools are not nearly as useful as others and the fact we heal the same as others makes the fact worse. </font></p> </span><span><font color="#cc0000"></font></span></blockquote></blockquote></span><div></div><hr></blockquote>OK.. this is my last post in this thread.. I wanted to reply to this last statement.. First off, your first scentence has absolutely no relevence to what i'm talking about, you're just trying to throw in an analogy to make your self sound smarter... Yes.. the procs on these are maybe not noticeable on short fights.. but that's not when you need them.. it's the long, mana-draining fights that make spells like this shine.. you will notice in a longer fight (1-5 minute fight) that this will in-fact proc between 1 and 10 times.. that's a lot of near free healing considering the power cost, and will help if you are stuck between timers on the rest of your spells (Well the 3 you seem to know about anyways) On the last scentence in this post.. Your tools are VERY useful, if you took the time to research how and when to use them.. I'd suggest clearing all of your spell bars, sorting your book by spell line, and picking the last spell in each line and find a place for it in your bars.. then, read over the descriptions and USE ALL OF THEM at least 10 times before you decide it's useless... An NO you don't heal the same as others.. If you took the time to actually read my posts you would see that in fact you heal more overall HP than any other healing class, and have the BEST ability to handle spike damage efficiently (Take a tank from 0 to full in the least amount of time) out of all the healing classes... Yes.. My direct heals are the same overall HP healed as yours, but they cost me Health as well as power to maintain them, and If I was relying on direct heals as my main line of healing, I'd be kicked from every group I've been in since this revamp.. Please.. to avoid making your self look worse than you already do.. Do yourself, and your groupmates, a favour... Read the description for every spell in your book before complaining that you have 0 utility, and your heals suck... They all changed... (incase you missed that)</span><div></div>

Naithik

10-05-2005, 11:04 AM

<DIV>Hi, my name is Naithik, lvl 53 warden.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was reading the other healer's boards for fun, and saw my class was mentioned here, might as well add my grain of salt.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/hop on soapbox</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any healer (templar in this case) saying he should be the best healer, needs to seriously reconsider how this game works. IT was said, over and over again, that all healers should heal equally. If you think you don't have enough utility, ask for utility, not more healing. Don't you think wardens would throw away their evac and sow to be the best healers? of course they would, because all healers want to be, well healers! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By the way, a little note on our utility.</DIV> <DIV>SOW is useless post 50, since everyone has a horse, or a flying carpet.</DIV> <DIV>evac is not as good as a scout's evac. casting is 5 seconds (instead of 3) has a smaller radius of effect, and can't be cast while moving. Try casting a 5 sec spell while being in an emergency situation... you get interrupted, and die, unless you are very lucky. a scout on the other end can run while he casts. (not saying to nerf scouts here, just saying our evac is really not as good as a scout's evac)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With the revamp, we got a root. wootadidoo. not really useful. When soloing, i can root a mob, cast one nuke on it, and then melee it, instead of, well casting a spell on it, then melee it. Gotta admit it's good for adds, but in a group situation, you can't really root and start shouting EVERYONE MOVE AWAY I ROOTED THE MOBS every 10 seconds... I would take your mez instead of my root anytime!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So that's about it. Oh and as someone said, warden got the worst nerf with LU13. we can't deal with spike damage, which means, pretty much anything. Hope this gets fixed, but for now, trust me, the grass isn't greener over here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Reav

10-05-2005, 12:18 PM

<P>Last time I checked, this was a game..</P> <P>Game: 1. any specific contest, engagement, amusement, computer simulation, or sport involving physical or mental competition under </P> <P> specific rules.</P> <P> 2. any test of skill, courage, or endurance.</P> <P>These are probably the best definitions for game. A game should be challenging. A game should make you have to think and use your knowlegdge and not just have you sit there chatting in 8 different channels while you fire off a heal every minute or so. I wish all you people that complain would wake up. The fun of playing a healer is to be presented with a challenge to keep your group or self alive. Not just sit there and help damage the mob. Even if you win by the skin of your teeth, which is always the most thrilling thing to do, you are still winning. Do any of you whiners even remember what you play this game for? Or has it gotten to the point where whining is the only thing fun to you anymore.</P> <P>Our involuntary/Mark line is not at all useless. It makes the total amount of healing less than what it would be without it. I don't use the mez much, but it can be very useful in giving you a few extra seconds to get another spell off and regen some mana. Yes, that 12 seconds can matter alot towards the end of a fight when you only have enough mana to fire either a heal or a nuke to kill the mob or be killed by the mob. We have plenty of utility if you just know how to use it, one of the best things we have over the other healers is the ability to be able to wear any type of armor which means we can take more damage cause of vanguard. I know, alot of you are going to tell me I'm an idiot and that has nothing to do with group utility. Yeah, go into a group and wear a robe or leather and get aggro...you'll die fast, then go wearing full plate and see how much that helps you. Our stun is great when a mob aggros someone other than the MT, stun it giving the the tank enough time to aggro it back while the other person isn't getting hit. Stun it if you need to get a good heal off on the tank...or stun it just to be a jerk to the mob. Atoning Fate is an excellent spell to use when fighting groups of mobs. </P> <P>Think I'll stop there and see if I get flamed...I do so enjoy a good flaming....</P>

Timaarit

10-05-2005, 12:43 PM

<span>Naithik, Odyssey is also useless post lvl 50. Every one has Call of Ro as backup. Btw, SoW can be used in instances while horses cannot.</span><div></div>

Supernova17

10-05-2005, 03:13 PM

I thank you for your votes of confidence! I also thank those who have come to valiantly defend our working class against the heathen orcs who are too confounded to figure out how a Templar works! =P Really, I must post a video sometime of what I do in exp grinds. It's not everyday your group's Templar is helping the tank chain pull mobs and healing the 6 different people who start out with aggro untill the tank locks down the incomming chain pulled mobs with ease. And I like some of the previous posts! This isn't EQ1, so your expierence there means squat except for backgroud info and lore etc. If you claim to be so elite, why are you having trouble understanding the basic workings of a Templar? <div></div>

Blast2hell

10-05-2005, 06:38 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN>Naithik,<BR><BR>Odyssey is also useless post lvl 50. Every one has Call of Ro as backup. <BR><BR>Btw, SoW can be used in instances while horses cannot.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Actually Odyssey requests are very common in my guild still, when we raid people need to get to the raid target, and if there call isn't up, they need an odyssey...and everyone by far doesn't have the call of ro yet. Even so, Maj'dul may not be the closest point to your next target....so if you have someone going there instead of maybe there home city...they could possibly take a bit longer and hold the entire raid up. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will say, it would be nice to have a group version of odyssey, in addition to the single target version....I wouldn't want it to be group only though, sometimes your whole group doesn't want to go to town...just one person.</DIV>

Timaarit

10-05-2005, 06:47 PM

Huh? Odyssey takes you to home city, not close to raid target. Call of Ro takes you to Maj'Dul, which is two zonings away from your home citys bell to TS and Nek. To me, these two are practically identical when I need to go anywhere. Also not all my lvl 50+ guildies have a horse yet... <div></div>

Blast2hell

10-05-2005, 08:01 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR>Huh? Odyssey takes you to home city, not close to raid target. Call of Ro takes you to Maj'Dul, which is two zonings away from your home citys bell to TS and Nek. To me, these two are practically identical when I need to go anywhere.<BR><BR>Also not all my lvl 50+ guildies have a horse yet...<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Horse? huh? </P> <P> </P> <P>Anyways....my comment is about saving time, yes you can go to Maj'dul and then a couple zones away to where you want...but if less zoning is involved by going to your home city..then your home city is optimal. And thereby I get requests everytime we raid for odyssey, thank goodness it's 3 minutes now. I go through mounds of odyssey stones just porting people around in an effort to keep the raid going.</P> <P> </P> <P>Two raid zones that are close to city instead of Maj'dul.... Firemyst gully and Zalak....</P>

Celestian_

10-05-2005, 08:05 PM

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>ChitzDaTroll wrote:<div></div> <div><span><font color="#ffffff">Celest, no offense,.. but your an insult to high elves. Stop flaming duntzzz for her very well thought out posts that are right on the money.</font></span></div> <div><span><font color="#ffffff"></font></span> </div> <div><span><font color="#ffffff">We DO have a [Removed for Content] nuke that pacifies the target after it lands you dolt, read your spell descriptions for tunare's sake.</font></span></div> <div><span><font color="#ffffff">Condemning Smite. It was REPLIED to you a few posts up by poor ol Supernova I believe it was.</font></span></div> <div><span></span> </div> <div><span><font color="#ffffff">We DO have an AE "stun" that detaunts. /sigh.</font></span></div> <div><span><font color="#ffffff">Once again,.. read your spell descpritions.</font></span></div><hr></blockquote> Listen, you need to read completely. First, I am human not a high elf. This is RL, not in game. Second I never flamed the SHAMAN that is trying to describe the skills I USE daily. Next, smite does not have any mez effect, it has a 1 second (totally useless) effect. Again, I am not talking about our Harmony, I was talking about the abilities the INQ was telling me HE had and HE said it was NOT Harmony. I do not play a inq so I take his word for it. He said his aoe stun/detaunt was NOT harmony line. Besides... Root+fear+stiffle+stun (and that cool spell they get that knocks back and does damage when you cast beneficial spells) 10 times more useful than half-mez+stun. Get real if you think otherwise. I want utility and we don't have it. </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Celestian_GC on <span class=date_text>10-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:14 AM</span>

Celestian_

10-05-2005, 08:10 PM

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr><div>Any healer (templar in this case) saying he should be the best healer, needs to seriously reconsider how this game works. IT was said, over and over again, that all healers should heal equally. If you think you don't have enough utility, ask for utility, not more healing. Don't you think wardens would throw away their evac and sow to be the best healers? of course they would, because all healers want to be, well healers! </div> <div> </div> <hr></blockquote> We have pretty much no utility and heal just as well as everyone else... Sound about right eh? Well not to me. Our healing is ok, but compared to every other healer I'd take ANY of their utility spells over the crap the templar has. It's funny how the same guys (not this fellow far as I know but some others in this thread) that used to preach the templar was fine when the game first released are the same people preaching it's fine now ... so how could it be fine then and now too. Logic escapes the fanatics I guess. </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Celestian_GC on <span class=date_text>10-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:11 AM</span>

Blast2hell

10-05-2005, 09:04 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Celestian_GC wrote:<BR> <SPAN><BR><BR>Next, smite does not have any mez effect, it has a 1 second (totally useless) effect.<BR><BR><BR><BR></SPAN> <P>Message Edited by Celestian_GC on <SPAN class=date_text>10-05-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:14 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Not to join the debate, but the comment above shows you don't understand the effect because you got the duration wrong and your belief that's it's useless shows you don't know how to apply it in a useful manner.<BR>

Kendricke

10-05-2005, 09:05 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Celestian_GC wrote:<BR> <SPAN><BR><BR>Next, smite does not have any mez effect, it has a 1 second (totally useless) effect.</SPAN> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>What are you talking about? It lasts more than 1 second, and it's only "useless" if you can't find a use. A hammer's a GREAT tool...until you want to cut a piece of wood in half. Then that hammer's just about "useless".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as your comments regarding the usefullness of a root against our "half mez": In a group situation where I have four targets beating on the fighter (who is using AE taunt, mind you), I'd MUCH rather have be able to knock out a target's ability to attack (Sign of Infirmity) than to knock out it's ability to move (root). Perhaps in YOUR groups, you find it much more useful to have the fighter's attackers unable to move...yet still attack. However, I personally find it much better to just drop an attacker for a dozen seconds or so while the rest of the group concentrates on a different target. No one's attacking the extra target I just cast on...no one's breaking the "half mez". </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The fighter's still dropping group taunts, and I'm still fine...but I just stopped that wizard from dropping ice comets on my group's tank for a little bit while he and the rest of the group works over the warlock. Will root do that? Will root stop that priest from healing the target my group's fighting? My Sign of Infirmity sure will...even if it's just for 12 seconds. Just for fun, I'll tag him with Prostrate then to keep him further locked down. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We've got a rather large toolbox to play with now. No, not every tool is great for every situation. That's not the point. The point is that I have tools which I can use...and I'm finding uses for them. Maybe you should stop trying to pound nails with a lathe, and realize that those Templars telling you the spells have use aren't all mindless lemmings just making up stories to spite you. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Kendricke

10-05-2005, 09:09 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Celestian_GC wrote:<BR> <SPAN><BR>It's funny how the same guys (not this fellow far as I know but some others in this thread) that used to preach the templar was fine when the game first released are the same people preaching it's fine now ... so how could it be fine then and now too. Logic escapes the fanatics I guess.</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Go find a post of mine from release stating that Templars were just "fine". Go on. Find one from Blast2Hell. Go find one from ANY Templar in this discussion from release.</P> <P>What's strange is how many Beta testers this time last year were OUTRAGED that Templars had our pre-level 10 wards and regenerations removed. Level 40+ Templars in Beta were absolutely LIVID that they'd lost a level 7 spell. Things change. Paradigm's shift. In another year, hardly anyone's going to remember how upset you are now that you have a "half mez", just like most Templars now don't even remember a time when we considered our level 7 priest ward a valid pre-pull required cast. </P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P>

Blast2hell

10-05-2005, 09:12 PM

actually kendricke, our mez only stops auto attack, combat arts and spell arts can still be cast by encounters if they choose. but encounters are set to low power consumption, so your likely to reap the full reward of having no action come from them with our mez.

Kendricke

10-05-2005, 09:22 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blast2hell wrote:<BR>actually kendricke, our mez only stops auto attack, combat arts and spell arts can still be cast by encounters if they choose. but encounters are set to low power consumption, so your likely to reap the full reward of having no action come from them with our mez. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>That hasn't been my experience. I'll confirm tonight what I've been seeing.</P> <P> </P>

Blast2hell

10-05-2005, 09:25 PM

I tested in Dueling, so the rules may be diffrent for PvE as they said before spells can do diffrent things in PvE then they do in PvP. Most encounters these days are very sparing with any power based abilites, and it seems most encounters die with about 50-80% power left, hence our mez is great since even if they can cast thru, there not likely to....or I should say, not smart enough to.

Eileithia

10-05-2005, 10:37 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Celestian_GC wrote:<BR> <SPAN><BR><STRONG><FONT color=#ccffff>We have pretty much no utility and heal just as well as everyone else</FONT></STRONG>... Sound about right eh? Well not to me. Our healing is ok, but compared to every other healer I'd take ANY of their utility spells over the crap the templar has.<BR><BR>It's funny how the same guys (not this fellow far as I know but some others in this thread) that used to preach the templar was fine when the game first released are the same people preaching it's fine now ... <STRONG><FONT color=#ccffff>so how could it be fine then and now too</FONT></STRONG>. Logic escapes the fanatics I guess.<BR></SPAN> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I know I said I wasn't going to post in this thread again, but you obviously are missing every point people are trying to tell you about. I'll say it again, in a lot of cases, you heal BETTER than everyone else.. you have MORE HEALS than any other priest class.. That's part of your "Utility", not all of it, but a part of it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How could it be fine then, and now too?.. Simple.. everything changed! It was not a "Let's leave the mobs as they are and nerf the crap out of all the players because it's too easy"... It was a "There are way too many bugs, and if we keep going the way we're currently going, there will be absolutely no longevety in the game" so they revamped the entire system to provide the longevety they wanted to have, and let the game grow in the right direction... The mobs, Tank HP, Heal amounts, every piece of combat was changed. It was fine before, and it is fine now. Yes, the style may not be to your liking, but if you can't study the changes and learn, then of course you will have a hard time adjusting to them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like the Hammer comment Kendrike made.. You ONLY had a hammer before, and it was your one tool that did everything, you could call it a SUPER HAMMER (You can even give it a batman cape if that makes you feel better).. everything was dependant on your reactive stacking and buff stacking.. Now you have a regular hammer, a knife, a staple gun, some glue, nails, a saw, a drill, and a handy little tool belt to carry all that around in... You need to figure out what each tool is good for, and use them in the appropriate situation, because your SUPER HAMMER will no longer do everything for you..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So.. yes.. it was fine then.. it was broken to crap, but it was fine.. AND it is fine now.. if you look at the OVERALL change, you will see you are no better or worse off than you were before the revamp, unless you simply just can't adjust..(Which I really think is your problem)</DIV><p>Message Edited by Duntzzzz on <span class=date_text>10-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:22 PM</span>

Rothgard-san

10-05-2005, 10:51 PM

<DIV>I went from 53 - 60 in a little over a week without grouping with a single fighter class. Just saying there's a lot more ways to play the game now, thanks to the combat changes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>edit</EM>: I wanted to add - how many templars, who feel that their class has become overly unbalanced used the new 50+ spells? Sanctuary, Divine Arbitration, and even Reverence have been very handy for me. Heck Divine Arbitration is probably one of the better priest spells in the game.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Rothgard-san on <span class=date_text>10-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:55 AM</span>

ChitzDaTroll

10-06-2005, 02:22 AM

<DIV><EM></EM> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#ffffcc>You ONLY had a hammer before, and it was your one tool that did everything, you could call it a SUPER HAMMER .. everything was dependant on your reactive stacking and buff stacking.. Now you have a regular hammer, a knife, a staple gun, some glue, nails, a saw, a drill, and a handy little tool belt to carry all that around in... You need to figure out what each tool is good for, and use them in the appropriate situation</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P> </P> <P>Oh,.. now THAT was nicely put.</P> <P> </P> <P>Morgandothian Gollandal</P> <P> High Elven Templar, Permafrost </P> <P>Card carrying member of the 10% Templar's Club</P> <P> </P>

Supernova17

10-06-2005, 03:03 AM

<span><blockquote><hr>Blast2hell wrote:I tested in Dueling, so the rules may be diffrent for PvE as they said before spells can do diffrent things in PvE then they do in PvP. Most encounters these days are very sparing with any power based abilites, and it seems most encounters die with about 50-80% power left, hence our mez is great since even if they can cast thru, there not likely to....or I should say, not smart enough to. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Aye the rules are different in PvE vs PvP. Sign of Infirmity really doesn't do much in PvP, but when I solo in Silent City (when I have nothing better to do) I fight the mummy and ghostly lion combos. The mummy's are sometimes Mages (chancellor) or Priests (tjat's aka clerics) and I can use Sign to prevent them from nuking or healing while I kill the lions etc. </span><div></div>

Blast2hell

10-08-2005, 06:26 PM

actually sign line is helpful in a duel because it stops the auto attack of a melee...though there combat arts stillwork. Especially against conjurors pets, as they mostly auto attack.

RipFlex

10-08-2005, 06:27 PM

<P>Here's facts Templar's 4 Group Buffs are now down to 2, any other group buffs are temporary like Shielding Faith. - FACT (It's a nerf)</P> <P>All of our Debuffs have been chopped at the knees, still useful, but not as good they use to be - FACT debuff line NERFED</P> <P>DPS, what DPS ? Took awhile to kill anything with our smites... now it take a little while longer (Cheaper on power to heal oneself than to Smite) - NERFED</P> <P>Yes, yes, we Have Plate Armour... wooopie No parrying - Why we have bucklers I don't know our avoidance is pointless I doubt we BLOCK effectively or at all, I describe my Armoured Templar as a "Plated Pinata" - Hit, hit, hit, fizzle, hit, interuppted, hit, hit, fizzle (missing be nice to see).</P> <P>So what we have left? We HEAL better now at a lower power cost but slightly longer casting times and Superior Revive lines. It's alot of Nerfs for that benefit.</P> <P>Don't forget Templars have no Speed Buffs, no Invisibility, no Evacs native to their Class.</P> <P>I still play my Templar mainly because of the superior heals and life saving Revives so it still suites me, but, Please STOP saying Healing across all Healers are still inadequate... Sony is to Stupid to know better and may kill the last thing we are better at - Healing --> THAT'S the ONLY thing we are better at, now.</P> <P>And if Sony makes the other Healers pretty much heal too closly as we Cleric types, then a Druid type be a better choice over all.</P><p>Message Edited by RipFlex on <span class=date_text>10-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:30 AM</span>

Blast2hell

10-08-2005, 07:12 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RipFlex wrote:<BR> <P>Here's facts Templar's 4 Group Buffs are now down to 2, any other group buffs are temporary like Shielding Faith. - FACT (It's a nerf)</P> <P>All of our Debuffs have been chopped at the knees, still useful, but not as good they use to be - FACT debuff line NERFED</P> <P>DPS, what DPS ? Took awhile to kill anything with our smites... now it take a little while longer (Cheaper on power to heal oneself than to Smite) - NERFED</P> <P> </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Lot of Nerf highlighting here, but highlighting our nerfs, and not acknowledging that every single class in the game took some nerfs is pretty one sided.</P> <P>I only remeber 3 group buffs....Shielding Faith, Symbol of Pinzarn, and Valor...what was the 4th? Also, Symbol of Pinzarn gained some of what Shielding Faith had.</P> <P> </P> <P>You also failed to highlight any of our gains...the areas were our spells were increased...the direct opposite of nerf....</P> <P>And our dps has gone up from before live update 13, granted only about 20-30 dps for me...before revamp I did about 65dps and now I do 85-95dps. While I think we should do 110-130.</P> <P> </P> <P>In the end, your post is basically a rant that only highlights what you think is bad and doesn't give any value to offsets. Whille I'm an advocate of increased DPS, and I feel some of our debuffs and spells definately need some work, there is a constructive way to post about it.<BR></P>

Kendricke

10-08-2005, 11:15 PM

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RipFlex wrote:<BR> <P>So what we have left? We HEAL better now at a lower power cost but slightly longer casting times and Superior Revive lines. It's alot of Nerfs for that benefit.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>What are you basing this statement on? We actually have shorter cast times with slightly more power cost. What you may be seeing is higher quality versions of our spells no longer increase in power. Power cost is constant now from Apprentice I on. </P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RipFlex wrote:<BR> <P>DPS, what DPS ? Took awhile to kill anything with our smites... now it take a little while longer (Cheaper on power to heal oneself than to Smite) - NERFED</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Again, I'm curious as to what you're basing this on? My DPS increased after the revamp as several of our damage spells received a boost in effectiveness. In addition, NPC's do not mitigate damage, and all creatures in the game had total health decreased (10-20% are the numbers I've heard).<BR></P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RipFlex wrote:<BR> <P>Don't forget Templars have no Speed Buffs, no Invisibility, no Evacs native to their Class.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'll grant you the above, but then again totems were fixed and cover all of the above, and frankly, all a Templar needs is a scout in the group to give all of these abilities (typically better than any priest could cast anyway). Our utility lies in our ability to "top off" or gap heal with our Mark, Fate, and Involuntary lines. We're the ultimate healer, and our utility reflects that.</P> <P> </P> <P><BR><BR> </P>

RipFlex

10-09-2005, 06:28 AM

<P>True, I like to rant and go over the top on specific areas to bring attention to (and I did point them out) where the Templar was changed... but like it was repeated the changes are a little bit here and there, but still.</P> <P>The group buffs have been reduced in number and yes one the buffs has another buff shared, but the values are still lowered or best described "scaled down".</P> <P>The other buffs that take up conc slots are single target, specifically the ones you cast on the main tank but not always.</P> <P>Well the DPS is debateable, yes the DPS numbers a a bit better but not scaling up as expected. Someone noted the numbers are still low. I accept that we are suppose to be in a group healing someone else, but I liked soloing WRITS and completeing quick and east KILL quests, sorry not easy... Long (hint) Not DPS comp to a fighter but maybe just short of the "weakest" fighter type?</P> <P>I guess I just FEEL that my Templar been grinded down in many many areas just to have better heals and revives thanthe other priests. And I'm getting seethed to hear the complaints from other healers they want the same healing levels ingame/ingroup, even had a couple inqus and Druid types leave a group after because they felt I was doing the healing sufficient for everyone and Sony lied, blah blah. I realize all priests gotten the Combat nerf with no parrying and such, I was just compiling how many areas the Templar was snipped - including the arch-type area. Maybe I'm one-sided I do not have a priest of each sub-class, but I do notice more Wardens a Furies like mad on my server Guk and alot less Templars probably the Templar players switched Mains or taking a seething break for a few weeks, I dunno. Or I can be completely Paranoid? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P> </P>