Calm Vs Center Question

[Foible]

<DIV>Believe Center is supposed to increase the power pool, Calm is supposed to increase the regen rate.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This post is to ask whether anyone has information about the effects of either of these.  How much Center raised their power pool, and what the effect of Calm felt like.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks, </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Arngeir, Templar on Guk</DIV>

[Ember]

<DIV>Relaeh posted this in another tread..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I selected Calm and got power regen increase and it does both in and out of combat, but not much:<BR>Combat: 9/tick without 10/tick with.<BR>Non-combat: 60/tick without (with PC crafted drink about lvl 16) 63/tick with (including same drink)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Releah - if you read this, how did you get these numbers?  How many ticks are in minute?  I would love to know these numbers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If there is something like 10 ticks in a minute, then this could give you an extra 30 power in a 3 minute fight.  How much direct power do you get added to your pool when you select Center?</DIV>

[Xran]

But the recast timer for Calm is pretty insane anyway....so I don't think it is worth choosing that?

[Foible]

<DIV>Thanks Ember, I saw Relaeh's post in the other thread, but it's good to bring it over here, too.  I usually drink an Antonican Coffee before going onto battle and wondered, for instance, how the effect of Calm compared to that.  </DIV>

[Ember]

<DIV>Xrande -  I think there are different traits for both class and race and this leads to some confusion.  For example, as a high elf I get a choice of something called harmonious mind.  This is an actual spell that has a very long recast time and only works when your not in combat. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From what others are saying, I think this particular effect is always on.  Can anyone confirm this?</DIV>

[Xran]

<DIV>Ah, yes, Ember, I was actually referring to High Elf's Harmonious Mind. That has a ridiculous 30min timer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So Calm is always on eh? Might be worth getting then.</DIV> <DIV>Now which Trait is this one? Class trait?</DIV>

[Ember]

<DIV>Well, I picked Center.  This added 34 power to me at level 32.  My guess is that they would probably even out in a fight that lasts a few minutes, but I wasn't ready to take that gamble.  I gained 91 power with all the choices I made.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Momolicio]

One important issue to consider regarding this:All power regen is % based. All Spells are flat spell cost based. For example.1000 powerstock summoned food regen is 6%?So 60/tick regen.1000 Power + 3% power Trait = 1030Stock food, still is 60 per tick, maybe 61 if the game rounds.IMO always go for increasing power over increasing Regen if the 2 are an option. (Considering some foods can get you to 9% regen pertick if not more, plus spells.)The simple fact is OOP is OOP. One choice makes OOP longer to get to, the other makes it easier to recoup from.

[Ond]

<blockquote><hr>Elmomo wrote:The simple fact is OOP is OOP. One choice makes OOP longer to get to, the other makes it easier to recoup from.<hr></blockquote>No, you can't put it like that, with regen it'd also take you longer time to go OOP in the first place.

[Momolicio]

I doubt the amount of regen that occurs incombat will outweigh the Power increase overall.% based regen is overall. If you make the pool bigger the Regen is bigger.If you make the regen bigger an leave the pool the same then you are only increasing 1 portion of the pool that feeds the same amount of power needs.Regen over Pool simply means you will refill faster and go oop soon then a power person as the spell costs are static. The secondary effect is that the larger power pool itself increases the number amount of power regenerated each tick. So in a sence with Power as your option you get more power and more power per tick. Granted the power per tick wont be on the same scale as a person who picked Regen over power, yet a OOP healer is just a weak melee.OOP is the enemy. Most of our heals come before OOP, we strive to keep from being OOP, not recovering from it.

[Auria]

<DIV>The power regen occurs during combat though, Elmomo. It's not like you have to wait for OOP before regen'ing. The constant regen effect is close to power gained, I'm sure.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With 2 of these power regen traits, I healed Solusek's Eye with no downtime, <EM>without</EM> any drink. As most Templars (most claim 50-80% power at the end of a 'good' fight) rarely approach OOP, the increased power pool does no good, to most people. It's like being capable to run 2.5 miles, in a 2 mile race.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Things to think about: The +100ish (someone said 91 earlier, who knows) you get from 2 traits wont get you an extra heal at tier4/5. Even if you do find yourself OOP a lot, that means more downtime after combat, so the increased power will reduce the downtime, increasing XP gain and overall effectiveness. I'm sure there are reasons to take the +PowerPool. But there are buffs and items to increase my power pool. Personally, I want a trait that I can't get anywhere else. Find me an item that gives +PowerRegen, and then, and only then, are the 2 equal in my eye.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just my 2 copper.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Xran]

Which trait is this again?

[Foible]

<DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>I conclude that going with Regen is the best choice for me.  Reasonin:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>Concerning the OOP situation:   </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>  Increased Power Pool:  Might give one more heal.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>  Increased Regen:  Might give one more heal in a long fight.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>Concerning all other situations:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>  Increased Power Pool:  No additional benefit.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>  Increased Regan:  Faster recovery and up time.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>   </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33></FONT> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Foible on <SPAN class=date_text>01-07-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:33 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Foible on <SPAN class=date_text>01-07-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:34 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Foible on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:37 AM</span>

[Foible]

<DIV>One other thing.   When I think about the experiences I've had, it seems like surprise encounters happen fairly often.  E.g. you finish a fight, have a short break, and then get into the next fight before everyone has recovered.  In this situation enhanced Regen is better.  </DIV>

[Rela]

-- Quote --Releah - if you read this, how did you get these numbers? How many ticks are in minute? I would love to know these numbers.If there is something like 10 ticks in a minute, then this could give you an extra 30 power in a 3 minute fight. How much direct power do you get added to your pool when you select Center?-- End Quote --Ember,These numbers were taken at lvl 27 with a lvl 20 high satiation drink going (vanilla fizzlepop to be exact). I cast myself down to OOP and watched the regen. A "tick" in EQ2 is 6 secs, so for every minute you go you get 10 ticks. Also, this is suppose to be a percentaged base upgrade, so it should get better as your level increases. Last I saw it was suppose to be about 3% of your base or so, that's what I am getting.As Auria said, if you are properly upgraded and are in a good group, you shouldn't go OOP unless you are doing a very hard situation that's meant for higher or more people than you currently have. This lowers down time a lot when running this and a proper drink.If ya have any other questions, feel free ta post 'em. I'm in and out of these boards a lot so may not respond all that fast.

[Momolicio]

<blockquote><hr> Find me an item that gives +PowerRegen, and then, and only then, are the 2 equal in my eye.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Just my 2 copper.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>Good point.Yes I understand power regen occurs in combat. We should all hopefully know that.To me it seems obvious that more power is better then faster power. For 1 simple fact.Power regen is % based. More power = More regen.This is just my opinion. While you are correct that there are no + power regen items (yet) the value of the +power traits is diminished due to the prevelance of the +Power spells and items. Whereas the +Regen food and spells are just as common. The +100 or so power from the traits in question vs the Small (+5%?) regen gains is probaly more of a personal preference then a Min/Max approach.So... after looking at it in an argumenative manner, ie looking at hard numbers...I am forced to agree with you. http://eq2.primagames.com/pdfs/traits.pdflvl 22 trait, Calm +5% powerLvl 42 trait, Lucid +5% power (even if its not stacked with the previous 5%)Is better then the 2 trait choices of 2.5% each for a whoppin 5% gain in overall power.I stand corrected and admit my errors.Incidently. Incombat Regen is 1% without food, with food, with tier 4 food (drink)<p>Message Edited by Elmomo on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:18 AM</span>

[Xran]

so the conclusion:calm - cos 5% power regen is better right?

[Momolicio]

Yep it looks that way, even if they do not stack for a 10% bonus. Its still better then a 5% overall boost in Power, if if that boost is applied after all buffs etc. Seems like a no brainer... Even a mistake perhaps. /blush<p>Message Edited by Elmomo on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:58 AM</span>

[Ember]

<DIV>Yup Xrande, </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I concur, the calm effect does look like it will be better choice.  I am glad I get another chance at level 42 to pick this.  Thanks to everyone for their input and results.  The last couple of days I have found some very useful information on these boards.</DIV>

[Malifest]

<DIV>I also think calm is better,.. but was under the influence of others at the time who said 'Do you want your healer going OOM in a end game battle/raid'.  So I was like... no, need more power!  And I was thinking, you can get good food, bard, chanter in a group and keep the mana flowing .. who needs regen.  The next one I am going to do regen as well... that is what I picked last time before the reset, should have done it this time... ah well. =(  I haven't had a chance to play my Templar since I repicked that regen/calm option, I will post again if there was a noticeable difference.</DIV>

[Foible]

<DIV>Aye, thanks to all who responded to this thread.  The good lesson I learned here was that it feels better to have taken a day out from playing to get some information than to make a decision in haste that I would have regretted.</DIV>

[Raea]

<DIV>I debated a long time about which to pick and finally picked 5% power boost overall.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My reasoning?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regen will eventually be capped.  Both in and out of combat.  We haven't seen any +PowerRegen items yet, but I'm sure we will.  It's a great effect to put onto a item from a good quest or boss fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>5% power will always scale with your char, and gets more effective as your powerpool increases.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's the longterm investment I think, but overall the better choice imho.</DIV>

[Xran]

does 5% Calm power regen stack with the one at L42?

[Auria]

<DIV>Yes. It's very nice ^^</DIV>

[lazlo1]

<DIV>Looks like there is gona be another trait reset in the not to distant future.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=chars&message.id=1048#M1048" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=chars&message.id=1048#M1048</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope they reset all of them.  I would like to repick calm over centered. I to was focused on the oop issue and picked centered. Calm seems the better choice after giving the issue more thought. I spend lots more time grinding than doing that "one big fight".</DIV>

[Xran]

<blockquote><hr>Auria wrote:<DIV>Yes. It's very nice ^^</DIV><hr></blockquote>Great!! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> According to a templar friend, he took the 2 power regen trait - and the boost is amazing!

[Celestian_]

<DIV>I would definately tell any high elf to avoid harmonious mind. Its a 30 minute recast and 3 minute buff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Take Gift of Tunare and Strength of the Koada'dal first... after that I'd take anything but Harmonious Mind and Firiona's Zeal (which is also on same timer and is complete and utter crap).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>GoT is +wis</DIV> <DIV>SoK is +power</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Momolicio]

Have any Gnomes taken the Racial Trait of the power boost? Not the lvl train with Calm an Center.I took the power regen and.. its worthless. (Racial Activateable 3 minute out of combat only power regen with agility bonus.)It would be better for a Melee class IMO.<p>Message Edited by Elmomo on <span class=date_text>01-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:50 PM</span>

[SatinyCh]

<DIV>I had to add to this thred because this issue is so important. I think it's great to choose all the regen you can. Like Auria mentioned about staying near full mana at the end of a 'good' fight, I definately can attest to this. Even though I am not level 50, while I fight in Cazic Thule, I can easily end fights with 80-90m, sometimes being full. Of course, this isn't just because Templars rock. If you have crummy tanks or dps or people who don't know what they're doing, it's easy to slip down to 50m because of bad tanking.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again, had to post to this thread, the regen issue is a very important one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-rez</DIV>

[Xran]

I can really see the Calm regen effect in play today. Fighting yellow and orange ^^ centaurs.Warden was healing at the same time too. For similar timed healing, I always end up havingway more power than him in-combat. Out of combat, I am probably the only one reaching 100%power the fastest. Yes, this is without drinks. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Danm]

Just to clarify, Calm is always on mana regen, correct?

[Auria]

Double post, sorry :smileysad:<p>Message Edited by Auria on <span class=date_text>01-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:10 PM</span>

[Auria]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Danmir wrote:<BR>Just to clarify, Calm is always on mana regen, correct?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Yes, in/out of combat power regen.

[ThunderRa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Auria wrote:<BR> <DIV>The power regen occurs during combat though, Elmomo. It's not like you have to wait for OOP before regen'ing. The constant regen effect is close to power gained, I'm sure.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With 2 of these power regen traits, I healed Solusek's Eye with no downtime, <EM>without</EM> any drink. As most Templars (most claim 50-80% power at the end of a 'good' fight) rarely approach OOP, the increased power pool does no good, to most people. It's like being capable to run 2.5 miles, in a 2 mile race.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Things to think about: The +100ish (someone said 91 earlier, who knows) you get from 2 traits wont get you an extra heal at tier4/5. Even if you do find yourself OOP a lot, that means more downtime after combat, so the increased power will reduce the downtime, increasing XP gain and overall effectiveness. I'm sure there are reasons to take the +PowerPool. But there are buffs and items to increase my power pool. Personally, I want a trait that I can't get anywhere else. Find me an item that gives +PowerRegen, and then, and only then, are the 2 equal in my eye.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just my 2 copper.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I solo most of the time and against high level mobs, and I always run OOP. I believe that for me choosing Centered was the right choice.<BR>

[ThunderRa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Auria wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally, I want a trait that I can't get anywhere else. Find me an item that gives +PowerRegen, and then, and only then, are the 2 equal in my eye.<BR> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What about drinks? Isn't that an item giving +PowerRegen when consumed?</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <p>Message Edited by ThunderRage on <span class=date_text>03-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:55 AM</span>