Anyone using Soothing Sermon?

[Ansar7]

<DIV>Does anyone use Soothing Sermon or later group reactive heals?  I have been reading how people are stacking 3 reactive heals now, but I don't see anyone commenting on Soothing Sermon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Currently, I am a 22 Templar and I use Soothing Sermon and BoV alot since they stack.  When waiting for repops or just moving around a dungeon, I keep Soothing Sermon up just in case something pops and doesnt hit tank first.  This is easy if you are not in combat since I get my power back from the cast almost immediately.  Also, I cast Soothing Sermon and BoV on main tank right before he pulls.  This gives me plenty of time to debuff the mobs and then recast Soothing Sermon or BoV as needed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Am I doing something wrong?  I just don't see many folks talking about casting their group reactive heals.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ansar</DIV> <DIV>22 Templar / 25 Tailor</DIV> <DIV>Unrest</DIV>

[HerrD]

<DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>I use intercession (soothing sermon upgrade) almost exclusively.  At 294+ a tick, for 8 ticks, it's insanely effecient, even if just the tank is getting hit.  BoV stopped being useful sometime around 35, and Supp I will use on the mt if needed while waiting for Inter's recast.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Near the end of fights I just use amelioration (or group insta), sometimes I'll just let amending fates to the capping.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Didn't come to the realization that group reactive was good for all occasions until after I got Soothing Sermon upgrade, but you might do some comparisons of your own based on amount healed per tick and number of ticks.  Don't just look at cast time and power usage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Auria]

<DIV>Yes! Always keep your group reactive up as much as possible. It generally heals 1.5x times or so what a target reactive does, and has more charges. I advise using it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[FoxeyeVaeltaja]

I fell in love with intercession the first time I used it. I'm glad I'm not th eonly one who uses it whenever possible.Question, though...since I haven't crunched numbers. The mana cost of Intercession is roughly 3 times that of BoV (I'm 30 atm). Does the duration and the extra heal/tic compensate for this? Folks love to put down healers who use sermon too much, I notice, so I'm sensitive to whether this is a bad tactic.At th emoment I tend to use intercession until my husband's Troubadour has drained the target's power, and then I switch to BoV with occasional direct heals. I assume that this is more efficient. But if it is NOT..heck, intercession and I will have a very long and loving relationship. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Mooz]

I use it all the time. Stacked with BoV (well CBoV now I guess).If the tank is being hit fast (eg 4+ mobs hiting at once) I'll guess when its going to drop and start casting it early.TuluLv28 TemplarQeynos, Najena

[Auria]

<DIV>The only problem I have with "efficiency" numbers is they are skewed a bit.</DIV> <DIV>     A.) They never take into account your power pool doesn't go up proportionally/linear.</DIV> <DIV>     B.) They generally don't take into account secondary effects of the spell (Such as SP/Intercession AC proc)</DIV> <DIV>     C.) Sometimes you just plain need a higher heal. I understand BoV is the most power efficient, but even at adept3 and 134 a tick, it just_plain_isn't_enough.</DIV> <DIV>           I'll use more power to keep my group alive, personally.</DIV> <DIV>     D.) A lot of spells stack (or are supposed to stack <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) with higher level ones, such as BoV with SP or GI, meaning the 2x heal evens out the power use.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/shrug. I love group reactives too. My app2 tier5 one does 343 a tick(!). I can't wait for adept3 /drool.</DIV>

[Ember]

<DIV>Some numbers taken at level 32...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BoV (Adept 3) 62 power - 134 x 4 = 536 / round</DIV> <DIV>SP (Adept 3) 92 power - 154 x 4 = 616</DIV> <DIV>Intercession (Adept 1) - 185 power - 258 x 8 = 2064</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now to compare similar power costs:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BoV cast 3 x 62 = 186 power with total healing of 1608.</DIV> <DIV>SP cast 2 x 92 = 184 power with total healing of 1232 + additional AC 101.</DIV> <DIV>Intercession cast 1 x 185 power with total healing of 2064 + 98 additional AC.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are drawbacks to using this spell and timing is going to be very important.  Overall though, Intercession is by far the best spell to use for raw healing power.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Ember on <span class=date_text>01-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:04 PM</span>

[Ansar7]

<DIV>Appreaciate the replies.  I am glad others are using group reactive heals as well.  Of course I am going to use what works for me, but I thought I might missing something.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[kelly]

<DIV><FONT color=#cc00ff>i never realized using group reactive heals were any good. i was told that soothing sermon and other group reactives was a waste of power and i never have been casting it. is it worth it to cast cause it is twice as much power as single reactive. i have just never used it. is it more effective to use both in battle but if i use both i dont want tanks yelling at me cause i am wasting power cause they are very sensitive about dying and they dont like to see healers wasting mana. so the tanks are wrong about this and should be using both?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc00ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc00ff>as it is now i only use both on pull incase the pull goes bad but i do notice it is better. guess i will be using both from now on.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc00ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc00ff>kelly</FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by lilkelly on <span class=date_text>01-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:24 PM</span>

[Xran]

<DIV>It uses way more power...but overall it is more efficient.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Use that...and time it when your tank is running low on HP. 8 hits should bring the tank back to pretty much full. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[kelly]

<DIV><FONT color=#ff00ff>so use both when tank is orange health?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff00ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff00ff>kelly</FONT></DIV>

[Xran]

<blockquote><hr>lilkelly wrote:<DIV><FONT color=#ff00ff>so use both when tank is orange health?</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT color=#ff00ff></FONT> </DIV><DIV><FONT color=#ff00ff>kelly</FONT></DIV><hr></blockquote>It is good to use before a fight if you have good drink up. You should regen full and SS should still be in effect.Intercession is way more powerful than SS so that's a good use.Basically when fighting really though mobs, stacking BoV and Intercession/SS is really great...you heal like nuts.

[Zapdafi]

<DIV>aye, I am a provisioner and a templar so my power regen is very quick, i try and cast it before each pull, it gives me time to debuff before i have to throw the next reactive up. </DIV>

[FoxeyeVaeltaja]

Ohhh this makes me so happy! Timing intercession hasn't been a big deal for me so far, and like Auria says, sometimes BoV is just not enough. Incidentally, I haven't noticed that group heals give a "bonus" heal at the end. Am I just not paying close enough attention, or are they without them?

[rtoub]

<DIV>At 29 my general strategy is to use Intersession out of combat and try to get it in before or during the pull.  I use SS sometimes during the battle, more and more recently but Intersession uses too much power at this point to cast in battle very often.  I expect in a few levels I will be able to handle the power consumption of the Intersession.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think the key to being a good Templar you need to use as many spells as possible and keep trying different combination as you level.  Different mobs take different stategies.  Just because when you first get SS it is a power hog and not worth casting much doesn't mean it will be the same 3-4 levels later.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Too many people make judgements based on there current level and never go back.  For a long time SS was a waste of Power for me but now it is pretty effiecient and really cool to have the group reactive up.</DIV>

[Foible]

<DIV>I also have not been using the group reactive, and am curious about the 8x heals of intercession.  I take it that the heals are good for any member of the group, and if the tank is the one who takes 8 hits, all the heals will go to him/her?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Supernova17]

A group reactive will only give one of those 4 or 8 (depending on spell) heals to the player who takes enough damage to trigger the reactive heal. I've had SS casted after the group's mage takes a hit and it never heals them, it only heals the person taking signifigant damage.

[MrDiz]

Sermon is probably my basic heal. I keep that up in most groups permanantly. With mana regen being so good I can cast it when the tanks says "Pulling" and it will hit before he aggroes. By the time he is back a few secs later im full again cos im still in non-combat regen. Ill stack with BoV at the beginning for the fight until mob is debuffed or multiples mezzed, but then drop back to just sermon. When I start using combat healing and Arch healing it means we bit off more than we could chew. Reactives are just way more power efficient and if done well a better way to avoid aggro.The reasons for using Sermon rather than BoV as your base reactive are as follows:1) You can cast even when the tank in far away and out of sight. This means if he takes 30 secs to find a mob you can still have the reactive on him before you join the fight and become open to aggro.2) If a mob breaks off tank you are a little less stressed about keeping the mage alive. It heals where it is needed.3) You can keep this spell up permanantly during non-combat as you will hit full power before it runs out. This means if you get an unexpected spawn or roamer your heals hit instantly. Gives you a good rep for being ready at all times. I cant count the number of mages and druids that Ive saved cos I had Sermon up whilst we were running to a new spawn site and got a pickup aggro from a passing giant <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />It does have a down side tho:1) Cast time, you need to know when to cast it to keep it on at all times efficiently.So far I have never had a group tell me not to use them. But then I usually end fights with a lot more power than the rest of the group so I challenge them to accuse me of inefficiency <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Zabumt]

<DIV>I've just recently started using SP and Intercession regularly as my main healing tools.  I'll tell you this it turns just about anyone into a tank.  Tonight, two guildmates (ranger and mystic) and I (templar) were finishing up writs in Zek.  We were fighting those crabs on the shore (orange group encounters)  Generally 3 no-arrow crabs or 2 one-arrow crabs.  When using SP and Intercession in well-timed succession, we never came close to death.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was in a bigger guild group earlier doing writs on the orcs in Zek and we fought the named groupx2 encounters when they would pop.  I had a hard time keeping up with SP and instant heals but once I started using SP and Intercession I used less power and kept everyone healed much better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, to sum it up, yes stacking your single-target reactive and group reactive on tough fights makes things go much smoother.</DIV>

[Ond]

Some great and insightfull replies <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I can speak from a run-of-the-mill level 30 templar's point of view. Ever since I read SS and BoV stacked, I've been using SS regoriously, later interssion which I'm lucky enough to have in adebt 1 form. There's two situations which defined the difference and thereby bennefit:1) Puller waits until you say ready, as in having cast SS/Intersession.2) Puller rushes to pull or sudden pops initiates a fight.For the first situation having SS/Intersession up gives you a good time to cast debuffs, this is in my opinion our second most important task after keeping people alive. When prepared with SS/Intersession the often seen situation, where the puller gets a few hits on the way back, becomes neglectable, they're nearly at full health when the real fight starts. This mean a simple backup BoV or Supplicant’s Prayer (SP) will keep them at full health for a good duration, meanwhile also AC buffing them for even less hits. About 45 seconds (rough duration of SP) for debuffing. If there's a trigger happy wizzy who incidentally gets agro, not too large of a problem, either ignore it or give them just a BoV (not SP, the AC won't help those paper people), again, time for the tank the grab agro.The second situation is always dangerous, I usually don't keep the group reactives up during running, if you can find the time to do so, I'd of course recommend it. So out pops something nasty and attacks a random target. I often find this again ends up with being the paper people, say a rogue gets the pop agro, some wizzy will assist with a nuke, unfortunately taking agro which the tank may or may not be able to remove. These randoms makes me cast [Removed for Content]/Intersession, simply because I know initially agro will jump around. Eventually things will come under control, but until then I like to backup everyone currently with agro with either BoV or SP, depending on how I think their AC is, SP for higher AC folks.A situation where I'll not cast the group reactives (while fighting) is when against a large group. For instance in the Ruins of Varsoon there's goblins, these comes in packs of 4+ and each will (hopefully) hit the tank, this means those 8 charges will quickly be gone. Since they don't hit hard, I find it more power efficient to use single target reactives, after the tank has had a round of SP, I feel they hit him/her quite a bit less. Anyway, this is a situation where reactives generally have a downside, fighting big groups which hit a lot for low damage, but still take a complate charge from the heal.

[MrDiz]

which is where sign of weakness and mark of pawns comes in <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> On large groups of no up arrow stuff Mark of Pawns can keep the tank from dropping so fast and you throw a BoV on him when he hits 50% and you will see him heal to 100% almost immediately <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by MrDizzi on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:51 AM</span>

[da5idblacksun]

I like Soothing Sermon because I can cast it while they tank is running to get a pull and is out of range. This helps me time it well.

[Kanos_]

<DIV>Yes, i use this a lot, my group is always asking me to use it and i always make their will.</DIV> <DIV>For me this is one of the best Cleric-Templar spells because it protects a lot your group damage, so use it and abuse it. </DIV>

[Fusty]

<DIV>another thing that most people don't take into account is food/water consumption! I recently converted to purchasing higher quality foods and drinks instead of summoning them.  Let me just tell you that there is a HUGE difference.  Power regeneration increases at a very noticeable pace.  With this in mind, it gives leniency to use the higher level spells that use more power.</DIV>

[Sundance_Guk]

<DIV>SS is a great spell when grouping with new adventurers.  I have found many times that someone in the group will get accidentally aggroed, and the SS will cover it, where as BoV, I would have to cast on each individual as they get aggroed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm getting pretty good now at spotting overzealous scouts and wizs that draw agro, and I keep us all protected. :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The group reactive is just a great way to keep things from going wrong, at any level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Steelgrace</DIV> <DIV>20 Templar</DIV> <DIV>Guk</DIV>