Latest Patch

[Zabumt]

<DIV>This patch, according to the notes, "group" mob damage has been adjusted upward.  Just my experiences today while in a couple of groups.  I haven't noticed much of a change on double arrow or 2 single up arrow encounters.  But, on group encounters of 4 or more (yellow/orange) no arrow mobs, the difference is pretty signifigant.  In the past, on such encounters, I was able to use my reactive heal as a sort of instant heal.  Let the tank get down 30 percent or so, throw on a reactive and all the hits basically healed the tank up to full or close to it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Today, in Zek fighting groups of orcs, I found this to not be the case anymore.  With the supposed damage increase, the reactive just barely keeps the tank's health the same.  I now have to touch up heal on every one of these group encounters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not complaining.  Just trying to figure out if anyone else has experienced the same thing.  Now I'm treating my reactive as more of a "ward" type spell on these encounters.  Just something to spam to keep the tanks health at the same level while I touch-up with amelioration or arch healing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thoughts?</DIV>

[Xran]

hmm, if reactive are having hard time, I think the shaman community will go crazier.The L20+ group mobs are already hard enough, and now they are still increasing the dmg?!I guess that's the way they are slowing down the levelling speed by making game harder.I believe our healing should be scaled up too. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Ember]

<DIV>I was nervous when I read that patch, but I didn't notice much of a difference at all.  I always fight with the same Paladin tank.  We fought single douple up arrows, two single up arrows and groups of up to 6 at a time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Zabumt]

<DIV>Hmm could've been my tank at the time then.  I never checked his equipment.  But I'm pretty darned sure, before this patch I could basically use my reactive as an instant heal on big group encounters.  For more info my tank at the time was a shadowknight at level 32 fighting the grouped mobs in Zek around the lumbermill.  (I'm NOT including the groupx2 encounters around there)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Zabumtik on <span class=date_text>01-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:07 AM</span>

[Supernova17]

I didn't notice increased damage from mobs in TS, but I did however notice that my reactive heals we're acting a bit more quirky. I normally have 2 of them at the start, but one only one was active in combat, it seemed to keep the tank at the same hp. It would normally give him a signfigant heal...

[Xconqui]

<DIV>This lastest patch is the most dissapointing, SOE increased the damage on group encounters, which is very noticable at my lvl, 44. Before I was able to stack 2 single reactives and spot heal the tank, while refreshing reactives and be gtg for the encounter. Now I have to stack 2 single reactives, 2 group reactives, spot heal and at the end of encounter the tank would be in the orange, just could not heal fast enough, power was never a problem nor the tank (lvl 49 6khp+ and 3k AC+), specailly against lvl 48 and under lvl 48 mobs. And in group encounters with 3 or more mobs, you can pretty much kiss the lowest hp group member goodbye, because the barrages have also increased from before from 500-700 damage to 900-1.3k damage and in an encounter with 3 or more mobs each with an intial barrage hit, the lowest hp group member will end up in the red or dead. Even Monks can single heal more than templars, the monk that was in my group could heal for 1.4khp with a 7 minute refresh and can target any group member, which I have to say, had saved the tank in some close calls during some encounters. Btw, my max heal is 625 hp App3 restoration, I am very disappointed with this, which leads me to the question, if we can't really heal, nor DPS, nor tank since we have decent AC but lacking Hp what is our role? One group member responded we got you because of your HP buffs.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing I have been noticing, their are less templars at the 40+ lvl than they were when I was at 20's lvl, many had quit playing templars and decided to play another class. I am going to suffer it out to lvl 50 to see if the high end game for templars improves.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In Eq1 I can heal for 30khp group heal and 19.2khp single heal, and in Eq2 I cannot even heal for 12% of the tanks hp (625hp)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Xconquist</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EQ1</DIV> <DIV>44 Templar</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EQ1</DIV> <DIV> <DIV>70 Cleric 399 AA's</DIV> <DIV>65 Rogue 45 AA's</DIV> <DIV>63 Beastlord 0AA's</DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by Xconquist on <span class=date_text>01-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:36 AM</span>

[Mooz]

I think they did it to make green group mobs harder to solo.Especially because of the group loot drops (adept spells).Before the patch I could solo the lowest of green group encounters reasonably safely.ie level - 4 encounters of almost all types (one green ^^, two green ^, three or four green)The end of these fights always end up a slow slog-a-thon because both me and the mobs power hits zero and its their damage vs my power regen rate (to heal and sometimes combative faith).Some mobs (ie casters) this works out good, Others (ie dps melee) it doesntAfter the patch I can still win these... but nowa) I have to be much more choosy in the mob types I take on andb) It take much longer. /yawnThe xp rate is much lower than doing solo mobs because of the length of the fights.The only reasons I have to do this are1) A friend recently started EQ2 and he has to catch up to me. I need something to do...2) Group loot to upgrade gear... but that said I sell most of the loot/adepts etc I get to npc merchants.3) Kill X # of mob quests. Sorry killing 60 owlbears in Nek forest isnt viable solo without doing group encounters. (note to sony.. please add more solo multi mob encounters to all zones!. Some people like taking on multiple mobs. I have only seen them in TS)4) max out combat skills

[Auria]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xconquist wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>...my max heal is 625 hp App3 restoration, I am very disappointed with this...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>         Lets wait until we aren't using app3 versions of tier4 spells at mid/high-tier5 to judge how ridiculous healing is. Adept3 Greater Restoration heals nearly 1200hp, I have heard. app3 Greater Intercession ticks at 198, app2 Crucial Intercession ticks at 343, hope is not lost.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>..which leads me to the question, if we can't really heal, nor DPS, nor tank since we have decent AC but lacking Hp what is our role? One group member responded we got you because of your HP buffs...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>        <FONT color=#ffff00>To say we can't heal is proposterous. If you've gotten 44 levels as a Templar, you should know you can heal, and heal quite well. I am doing quite fine, even with mediocre spell upgrades due to lack of sages/drops.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>..In Eq1 I can heal for 30khp group heal and 19.2khp single heal, and in Eq2 I cannot even heal for 12% of the tanks hp (625hp)..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>          In City of Heroes I could heal for 2.2k!</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>         Eq2 is a completely different game from Eq1, you can not compare them, you're also comparing a game with 6 years and 8 expansions to one out 2 months, without a major balancing. While I agree, at times, I wish for a higher heal, or better numbers, I know that in the interest of balance, it can't be done. You said app3 heal, lets pretend they bumped it to be a 25% heal(!). What happens when someone gets a Master3 of the spell? It becomes ridiculous. They have said time and time again, a CH destroys the game, and I agree.</FONT></P> <P>...One thing I have been noticing, their are less templars at the 40+ lvl than they were when I was at 20's lvl, many had quit playing templars and decided to play another class...</P> <P>       <FONT color=#ffff00>You'll also notice there are less of every class at level 44+... this is an issue of being high-level, not that there are less templars playing the game.</FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Bottom line, A.) we can heal </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>                    B.) don't compare your templar numbers to an Eq1 cleric, or you deserve the disappointment.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>                    C.) give the game some time to adjust loot tables, or let a sage level up enough to make spell upgrades for tier5, then look at your numbers.<BR></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>This wasn't a flame at all, but use a bit of common sense when using a tier4 app3 spell near the end-game, and not performing as you'd like.</FONT></P> <P><BR> </P> </FONT>

[MilkToa]

<DIV>Mob group damage has definitely changed. I'm level 31 and have been hunting around the mill in Zek for the last several days and haven't had to use anything but reactive heals until last night. I was able to make the adjustment after an initial unexpected death but I'm now using occasional instant heals during fights that required none before. This isn't a tank issue - I always check defense, HP and level and there were no major differences.  Up until last night I've felt comfortable being the only healer in a group without an enchanter but I don't anymore.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Xconqui]

<DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>         Lets wait until we aren't using app3 versions of tier4 spells at mid/high-tier5 to judge how ridiculous healing is. Adept3 Greater Restoration heals nearly 1200hp, I have heard. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Use facts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Eq2 is a completely different game from Eq1, you can not compare them, you're also comparing a game with 6 years and 8 expansions to one out 2 months, without a major balancing.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>If you have not noticed, it's called EQ2, based on EQ1 storyline, an extension of EQ1. By now, with the lessons learned and EQ1 experience you would think SOE would had release a near flawless game. And yes I am a SOE customer and have my right to gripe about it.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>While I agree, at times, I wish for a higher heal, or better numbers, </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Self Explanatory</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>What happens when someone gets a Master3 of the spell?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>No such thing in the game. If you have not noticed by now, the steps in spell upgrades are based on % of improvement of App1 spell.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>It becomes ridiculous. They have said time and time again, a CH destroys the game, and I agree.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>If you have not noticed, it's a little too late to gripe about not raiding because there are raid mobs in the game already, and sooner or later you are going to need to fight them for high end quests/epic battles, may be then, you wished you had CH.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00> B.) don't compare your templar numbers to an Eq1 cleric, or you deserve the disappointment.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Deserve the disapointment under who's standards? Yours? Well, I am not even going to go there...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>This wasn't a flame at all, but use a bit of common sense when using a tier4 app3 spell near the end-game, and not performing as you'd like</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>You had me fooled there for a second, then again your refering to common sense and under who's standard we are weighing the common sense. You did not read the topic, the topic was the latest patch and it caused a major disbalance. The game was performing as I liked, keyword was. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If cannot say nothing nice, maybe you should say nothing at all.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Xconquist</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV>

[Auria]

<DIV> <DIV>Xconquist,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>           I am sorry for any perceived condescension on my part, it was not intended at all. The last thing I would want to do is make some one feel I was degrading their opinion, as I am often defending the fact everyone is entitled to a unique one.</DIV> <DIV>           In response to the "use facts" comment, after thinking about it, I realize the 1200 was too high a number (although it is true I have <EM>heard</EM> that). Adept1 Restoration does 694, and I'll post numbers for Greater Restoration app3 as soon as possible. The point is, we don't have facts on our tier5 spells, or high-end upgrades, because they haven't been crafted/found yet. Which was my main point - we don't know exactly how high our heals get. Sorry again for the over-guesstimation.</DIV> <DIV>           I still can not agree that Eq2 is an extension of Eq1, although bearing the same brand name and storyline, there are too many mechanics of the game that are different, and we could not just patch our Eq1 files at launch and be good-to-go. Also, Eq1 still exists for those that prefer that style. I do agree SoE should've pushed a more-complete / less-flawed game, and I never questioned your right to "gripe about it", although I didn't see anything that was a mere gripe, you support your ideas to make them much more substantial than that.</DIV> <DIV>           Not sure what you meant by "self explanatory" in reference to my desires for higher heal numbers. I recognize there are still upgrades to get for my spells. If this was a rebutt, I missed it.</DIV> <DIV>           I have done raid mobs, ranging from that blasted demon in Nek Castle to Vision of Vox. Nothing I have found yet requires a complete heal, merely more strategy than a cleric rotation of CHs. As a matter of fact, most raid mobs I have encountered thus far can be done with a single balanced group using HOs. Vision of Vox is the only one that after the 3rd try or so, has not fallen, and I find that a simple matter of lack of players to raid it with, not mob difficulty.</DIV> <DIV>           Again, because I feel Eq1 and Eq2 are different, I am sorry for coming across as blunt. I did not mean to impose my standards on anyone, but honestly (and in my opinion), comparing a potentially 6-year old cleric that can heal in the many thousands of points to a two month old templar without upgrades to it's best spells is unfair to our class.</DIV> <DIV>          Lastly, and finally, I am sorry for bringing up "common sense", it was a bit too harsh and uncalled for. Though, in all fairness, the reason it is called "common" sense is because the standard is not that of one person, but rather something a majority of people can conclude. (i.e. an app3 tier4 spell isn't as good as we get.)</DIV></DIV>

[Dragonreal]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xconquist wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>         </FONT><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT></DIV> <DIV>If you have not noticed, it's a little too late to gripe about not raiding because there are raid mobs in the game already, and sooner or later you are going to need to fight them for high end quests/epic battles, may be then, you wished you had CH.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I never played eq1 but I did have some coworkers that were well into it and I have about 2 yrs' experience with eqoa (60 drd 55 pld 55 brd); I was in the only real raiding guild left on my server when I came to eq2. Based on my talking with my coworkers about the differences between those two games, I have to admit I'm incredibly glad they're saying there won't be a CH; the whole concept of it just sounded boring to me and I also didn't like the fact that it made clrs the only viable choice for raid hlrs. I went through a lot of hard times getting my drd her rightful place on raids because of the advantage clrs had, and then at the end of it all, my guild really only wanted necs for healing because the devs gave them faster casting heals with lower recast times that were just as strong as a clr's heals. Imo, giving out CH would have been just as bad or worse than the screwed up situation with the necs' heals and I long since would have given up playing.</DIV>

[Dalari]

<DIV>I noticed it, although it seemed to just bring the difficulty level of groups of 4+ closer to that of ^ + ^ and ^^. Level 39 with a 38 paladin tanking the nightbloods in RV, app3 BoV, app 2 SP, adept 1 Intercession.</DIV>

[Xconqui]

<DIV>It only gets better now, Vision of Vox was attempted twice in a row by 2 guilds with the full 4 groups lvl ranges 46-50. Vox smacked the tank for 5234 and barraged for those that could not avoided between 5890 and 6856. Keep in mind this is not a Tier2 raid mob.  So I guess we can win this encounter with our current heals? However, for those that dinged 50, did so under the old game rules and the new patches would not as much as impact as to those trying to acheive 50. And yes Permafrost Castle is still owned by Vox in our server.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Xconquist</DIV>

[Zabumt]

<DIV>I'm not sure what melee dps and tank health numbers look like at 50 with buffs.  Those are some huge hits no doubt, but on a raid you'll technically have quite a few more healers supporting the tanks and anyone within melee range.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another thing to think about is that maybe there's a way to essentially shut down that encounter with stuns/stifles and the like so that big barrages like that happen very infrequently.  Or some other strategy to keep alot of people from taking a load of damage like that.  I'm thinking a tank with a group ward, single-target ward, group regen, single-target regen, group reactive and single-target reactive all stacked might stand a pretty good chance of taking at least partial damage from such an attack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm thinking 2 groups of tank/melee dps groups of shaman, druid, cleric, tank, and 2 melee dps.  And 2 groups of casters concentrating on big damage and stuns/stifles from range.  Might be an answer for hard-hitting end game mobs like that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But we're getting off topic with raid strategy discussion.  hehe...</DIV>