When it hits the fan....

[LSUwe]

<DIV>OK, new Templar here.  Just hit 21 last night, after the following fight.   I've been in a few fights before were I lost a member and also a few where the entire party got wiped.  Last night was the first one that I thought I should have been able to handle, but lost half the group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We were in SH working on AQ3.  We had cleared the Defiled Cavaliers and went to the easier Crusaders.   We were handling them pretty well.  Suddenly 3 popped, plus a chest.   They started pounding on everyone it seemed.   I was casting BoV plus Soothing Sermon with Combat heals thrown in.   We also had a druid as a secondary healer.   He was the first to go.  He died while I still had power, so I blame that one on myself.   Kept the rest alive for a bit as the fight got under control.  Finally lost one more right as my power ran out.   By this time, there was only the chest left, but its target, one of our tanks, was almost gone.  We killed it, but not before he took out that tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In summary, we lost 3 members out of our full group. I cast Radiance on the last target, but too little too late.   My question is, when something like this happens, what is the best strategedy to get everything back under control?    Other than this fight, we worked really well as a group.  We took down 3 Cavaliers (a harder critter) without loss, but not the 4 from this fight. </DIV>

[Ephigy]

<DIV>There's quite a few things that could have contributed to things hitting the fan.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess the thing I noted most glaringly is that the secondary healer went down first.  Did you have a tank that was taunting?  Also, were you forced to heal multiple targets?  Perhaps the tank was unable to taunt the adds?  That will burn through our power quite quickly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In an ideal situation only one person is getting hit.  I'm sure if that was the case, you would have done just fine.  It sounds that you got caught in a bad situation, these things happen, all we can do is learn from them.</DIV>

[Gobbwin]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Well in that situation, there isn't much that you could do.  If more than just the MT is taking damage, it gets rather difficult really quick to keep others alive, especially with more people taking damage, you'll run out of power quick.  The druid likely died using direct heals or something else that would snag aggro asap, while your reactives are relatively low aggro.  Also, when you run out of power, there is nothing else that you can do, accept either get behind the mob and melee (if its nearly dead) or run like hell (if it has a lot of life and has a high probability of wiping your group).  That situation rests primarily on the tank and them re-establishing aggro, also the other group members must assist the MT, so you can focus your healing efforts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I too have had problems grouping with other healers and having to keep them alive.  I personally view other healers as secondary and not nearly as important as the MT.  If you are a priest class and you pull aggro, you should know to stop whatever you are doing and do your best to transfer aggro back to the MT.  Furthermore any priest class can heal themselves and should do so if they pull aggro, otherwise you'll likely get aggro when you heal them.  I have no problem at all helping to keep them alive if they accidentally pull aggro, but if the MT is getting pummled, then they are on their own, because you might risk wiping the group by focusing your efforts on them.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Examples:  I had a group one time with a shammy who kept getting pummeled due to his wards and the MT not taunting, when I had the chance/power, i'd primarily help him out with SS, but would toss him a BoV when I could.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another time I was grouping with another Templar, he was the main healer (primarily casting BoV and a couple debuffs), while I was spot healing and tossing out the rest of our debuffs.  He never paid attention to where he was standing in relation to the mob, nor when was a bad time to cast (casting BoV during the pull) and hence took a lot of damage.  I tried to explain to him why he kept getting pummled and hence died several times because he was focused on damaging the mob and not healing the tank (don't ask, he wanted to be the main healer and at the same time pump out as much DPS as he could, including nukes, which lead to a lot of down time as he was OOP after every battle).</DIV>

[Jolcon Zand]

<DIV>I find the worst is like you say, when the tank cannot keep aggro, or two people keep passing it back and forth or someone is fighting from the front of the mob and taking hits for no reason. My favorite is when one of the non tank members gets aggro and runs like crazy, or a person is screwing up and does not read the big caps you paste over and over to get the heck out of the way or back off.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The first thing I do when I get aggro is hold still, heal myself with a BOV, then check out the rest of the group. Keep your armor up to date and you should be able to take the hits as good as the tank. Heck sometimes I just heal myself and take the aggro!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Making macro's that tell the group stuff like;</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>GET THIS OFF ME</DIV> <DIV>HEALERS MIND IS LOW</DIV> <DIV>IF YOU ARE NOT THE TANK, PLEASE FIGHT FROM THE BACK OF THE MOB</DIV> <DIV>DON'T RUN</DIV> <DIV>BOOT THAT ROAMING IDIOT BEFORE HE GETS US ALL KILLED</DIV> <DIV>RUN! WE CANNOT WIN THIS FIGHT!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>are worth a more than anything you got in your arsenal.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And don't forget:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please show love to the healer, for he is only human, and doing the best he can.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Jolcon Zander on <span class=date_text>01-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:58 PM</span>

[Auria]

<DIV>Just being is SH in general is hitting a brick wall full force without an airbag and you dropped your ice cream cone 10seconds earlier :smileysad:</DIV>

[Supernova17]

The Priest cannot be blamed if the other group members fail to keep their armor up to date. Sure, there can be some mixing for a tank with Platemail and some old Iron Chainmail, but when a tank is wearing a couple of good armor pieces and the rest he found on newbie isle, there is no excuse. I remember playing through as my Guardian tank (btw, Guards taunts are many and more effective than a Paladins and thus make slightly better tanks because they can hold aggro better. I have two group tuants, one single enemy high aggro taunt and 1 taunting attack) and it was always a given that I had more armor class than my healer. Now, I am playing as my Templar and it sickens me to be seeing myself with 960 AC and our tank who is a level or two above me has 900 AC... Then, the backup healer, usually another Templar, wearing rags for armor weighing in at 400 AC. It's no surprise that when they get whacked, they go down hard.The following is a list of things to keep the Healer and the Tank alive, thus allowing the group to survive.- Up to date armor. You should be using the best you can in relation to your funds and the armor's stats. Tanks should focus on getting armor that has bonus STR stats when possible. This will make them more effective in melee combat. Healers should focus on armor that has decent WIS stats to increase their Mana pool and effectiveness as a healer. I've seen Templars at lvl 25 with 55 wis, while my little lvl 21 self has 81 wis, with respectable stats elsewhere. - Tank should always keep up to date weapons and sheilds if he chooses to use one. I've found shielded tanks more effective at blocking blows than an unshielded. For the Priest, this does not matter as much, and the weapons/shields should have +Wis stats and resists etc. - Tank needs to group taunt at the beginning of a pull to gain initial aggro. During this time, NO ONE may attack the mob untill the tank has been engaged for at least 5 seconds and has hopefully casted another group taunt. This does, 95% of the time, allow the tank to maintain aggro. The Healer should tell him to wait to pull, and allow him to cast a reactive heal on them, such as BoV in order to protect them for the initial few hits and decrease the chances that the healer draws aggro trying to heal an incomming tank. - Drinks. Can't stress this enough. You need to be drinking something! Tanks and Healers alike are doomed without thier power. If you don't have anything to drink, a Priest will gladly summon something for you should you ask. I prefer to have a large stock of NPC bought drinks and some crafted drinks for harder areas. Remember, the better the drink, the faster the regen. I met a Templar the other day who didn't know this... - Healers should at the very least have an emergency supply of activatable potions at thier disposal. I always keep a Gust potion for rapid mana regen in one slot and a healing potion in the other should it ever come to that. - Tanks and healers alike should monitor the situation, and if they realize the enemy mob is going down quickly, they should reserve their mana to create less downtime beteween fights and mana burn outs. - Main Tank should always identify himself to the Healer. Many a group I have been in had an equal level Guardian or Paladin who welcomed me and starting pulling strong mobs. They dropped to half HP before I could get them back up to near full and put a reactive on them.- Support Healers should talk with the Main Healer about who takes care of what. Usually the main takes care of the tank, while the support heals anyone who draws aggro and debuffs the mt's target. The Main Healer would ideally be the Templar or Inquis. as they are designed to have the best and most potent heals. The other classes make fine healers themselves, but the Cleric class will usualy have an edge in spell ability.- Spell upgrades. Upgrade as soon as possible when you get a new spell. Usually a better spell will take less mana to cast and do more damage or healing. This goes for tank and their Attack and Taunt spells as well. Those are the basics I've learned both ways.And for the love of god tanks, please don't get scared when you drop into the red while the healer still has mana and is casting a heal spell on you and starting running away...OUT OF THE HEALERS RANGE. This is as funny to watch as it is painful. If you are the Healer and you are taking aggro, simply use a Macro, a qucik type "ON ME" or, if you have to run, run around the tank. On my Guardian profile, there was nothing more fun than chasing after my healer trying to taunt the mob off him. You see, like healing spells, taunting spells work only when you are in range. A Healer sprinting away is going to outrun the tank on most occassions. The mob eventually catches up and beats the healer down.

[Zabumt]

<DIV>As Auria said, SH will throw you down and make you scream before it lets you loose.  SH is my LEAST favorite zone of the game so far.   Sure, I made my way through it but I came to call it the zone of debt.  As for your situation, it all depends.  I'll let another healer die if they're low on power AND the tank is low on health but has some power to still taunt.  It's a spur of the moment decision though.  Not something I think about as I grind through mobs with a group.  If the tank is out of power and very low on health, I call for a run.  Hoping people remembered how we got to our spot in the first place.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There's really nothing you could do in this case.  If the other healer had power you could way overheal him and take aggro and play ping pong.  But this doesn't last for long.  Usually only go for something like that if the mobs are close to death.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To sum it up, welcome to Stormhold.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Grunth]

<DIV>You said the backup healer went down in mid-fight, but you had it under control until near the end after that?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't remember level 21, but I know if I'm in such a situation these days (it does happen), I'd throw my in-combat revive at the druid.  If you've got a bard or enchanter, the mana regen they provide would have probably tipped the scales just enough that you'd have got through fine.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other than that, I'm not sure what else you could have done -- as you said, some people went down by the end, but you DID succeed.  That's the bottom line.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>