Having more AC then the Tank.....

[MasterMagicianPug]

<DIV>This has happened to me a few times with very bad results...  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You know how it is.  You're just trying to find a group for some exp.  Looking for a Tank the only thing you can find is someone that is 2 levels below you(or a group with an average 2-4 levels lower then you are).  No better options are available and that tank is really pestering you to group with them.  So, you agree.  Not only do I have more AC then him, but after my buffs I have about 100+ more ac then he does.  I think it's going to be ok, we're going to take it easy...  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Untill the tank doesn't just try to pull a mob 1-3 levels above them, they try to pull a mob that 1-5 levels above me!!!  Not only does this end bad, but it never succeeds unless I'm in a group with 2 healers, and even then the other healer doesn't do anything.  Because they think I can handle everything, because I was at least about 2 levels higher then the group average.  One of the worst parts about it is that the "Tank" thinks they're hot and can handle anything, when their armor is some of the worst I have ever seen.  I can understand when the tanks armor is white or yellow to me, but when it's green or grey.....  I just really want to tare into these tanks, and ask what on earth they're thinking.  I want to know why they don't even try to work on getting new equipement.  I can understand Zerkers or Monks wanting to be the MT when no better option is apperent, but I would never go into another battle with one of these classes attempting to tank again for a major exp group.  I'm just a little frustrated because it wasn't the best experiance for me the other night and it took serveral hours to work off the debt that I collected from that evening of woe.  This has happened several times... why I didn't learn the first time I'll never know.  Be warned though for your own safty and sanity.</DIV>

[Ender]

Before I join a group for some tough questing/xp grinding, I make sure of three things:1. Tank has either a kite or tower shield. 2. Tank AC > My AC and resistances are good.3. Tank should be around my level, usually higher. One level below me is ok, any lower lvl is not ok.Then you have to observe how well the tank does with keeping aggro, pulling, etc but that's another story.

[Kikmaid]

<DIV>Often just looking at stats doesn't help you either.  You can have a tank 3 levels higher than you that dies easily and a tank 3 levels below you that tanks like a superstar.  Player ability, and using all the tools you have at hand effectively has a lot to do with how well anyone, including the tank, performs in a group, regardless of their current stats or AC.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Problem is, for people you don't know you obviously have no idea what they're like yet, so you obviously only have the stats to base it on.  Generally the better players will also try to get themselves into good gear, so looking at stats can sometimes give you an indication, but it's not always the be all and end all.  I find conversation is a much better indication of ability.  People who can't communicate well are usually going to be bad in a team... even if it's because of a problem understanding English - which is not their fault - by not being able to communicate means they're going to pull adds, go the wrong way, start before you're ready, not move when the group does etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the end, it's all a matter of trial and error, and you can't expect to get awesome players everytime you get someone into a group, but then you also can't expect to never get them either, just don't base a player's ability completely on their stats, as it's not always the best indicator, especially if the stat you're looking at it is specifically AC and you're comparing it to yourself.  Don't forget, we can wear heavy armor just as any tank can, so we can actually match their AC fairly easily, and if higher level and wearing the same armor we'll naturally have better AC than them apart from buffs.  The difference for a tank is they have various tools such as wards, hunker down etc. to also let them take hits better than we possibly could with our AC.. and even a tank with lower 'base AC' would possibly use their tools so well that it really doesn't matter.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kikmaidog on <span class=date_text>12-30-2004</span> <span class=time_text>11:16 AM</span>

[Dikari]

Very well sais Kikmaidog! Very well said indeed! The last thing EQ2 needs are for people to be denied access to groups due to statistics. Intelligence, skill and communication are the keys to success in a game like this. Not statistics or templates. This is a role playing game in more ways than one. Statistics don't prove that a warrior can play their role effectively and seeking statistics only shows that your role as isn't being played either. Look past statistics. Like the old saying goes, You cant judge a book by its cover.Hunt well, be safe and have fun everyone!<p>Message Edited by Dikarius on <span class=date_text>12-30-2004</span> <span class=time_text>02:08 AM</span>

[Auria]

<DIV>           I know an a scout type who has openly said he buys money off a third-party website, has the best items available, etc etc... he totally sucks. Luckily, at higher levels, everyone knows who is who on the server. Reputation/Skill > Stats/Money/Level  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[JF]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Auria wrote:<BR> <DIV>           I know an a scout type who has openly said he buys money off a third-party website, has the best items available, etc etc... he totally sucks. Luckily, at higher levels, everyone knows who is who on the server. Reputation/Skill > Stats/Money/Level  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Thats how it should be, glad to hear your servers got it right <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Ste]

In defense of the tank here, don't the con colours of mobs appear to the whole group as they do to the highest member? If you're two levels higher than the tank, suddendly what are actually yellow mobs to him will now be appearing blue, so if he continues to pull his usual yellow / orange mobs he may think he's pulling the same mobs as usual with the advantage of a higher level healer to make it easier. Not realising that he's actually pulling mobs that are deep red, and much harder than his usual pulls.Ok, he should know better by level 20, but still, you have to learn these things some time.

[Xran]

I believe the con colors is not based on the highest level char.It is always good to check with fighter what color con they are seeing.

[Auria]

<DIV>      Con colors are not based on the highest level member of the group. However, if one member of the group is high enough to grey something out, it will be grey to all members. A green to me will still be deep(!) red for a level 8 I group with. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV>

[Gwynet]

<DIV>I've got into quite a few groups where the tank was up to 4 levels lower than me. Usually, it doesn't only depend on the tank, but on the other members of the group too. If the tank is 3 levels lower but the DPS is the same level as you for example, it shouldn't be a problem, because mobs will die fast anyway. If everyone is 3 or more levels lower than you and they want to go kill things that are yellow+ to you, just politely tell them you don't think it's going to work, and if they insist, leave the group. I got called a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] for it one day, but at least I didn't leave my shard deep in Guk <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[MasterMagicianPug]

<DIV>That was the problem with the group I was in I was about 3 levels higher then everyone there.  I was first invited to a group that had some others about my same level, but for some reason they quickly left.  I should have left as well, but I decided to stick it out and see how things were going to go.  Things were con'ing blue to me, but I now realize that it must have been Yellow to the rest of the group, if not Red.  I guess I learned my lesson the hard way.  I now group with Tanks that are at the Most 5 Levels higher then me over in EL, or RE... Most of the time we have a second healer.  One time we did not, have a second healer but for some reason we were doing pretty well with just myself(not sure why, probably due to longer pulls that allowed for more regain, and more dps which meant they were dieing off faster).  It was a really good group, most of the groups I find now are similar to this.  It's been much better.</DIV>

[Ste]

<blockquote><hr>Auria wrote:<DIV> Con colors are not based on the highest level member of the group. However, if one member of the group is high enough to grey something out, it will be grey to all members. A green to me will still be deep(!) red for a level 8 I group with. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV><hr></blockquote>aha, I didn't know that was how it worked. Thanks.So the level 8 group member grouped with you will only ever be able to see red cons and grey cons while in your group? hehe.

[Jolcon Zand]

<DIV>The first question to as a group is:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Who is here for XP and who is here for XP debt? Please speak up!</DIV>