Wards Don't Ignore AC Mitigation 100%

[DeythCombi]

<DIV>I had a 44 mystic test it.  With his AC gear and ward on he took less damage from hits than he did without AC gear or a ward.  There goes that myth.</DIV>

[Coops1]

<DIV>Did his AC gear add to agility thus increasing his avoidance?</DIV>

[Celestian_]

<DIV>And this has what to do with Templars?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[lazlo1]

Its not a myth you are wrong. I have tested it. AC will make the mobs MISS more , but the actual damage taken by the ward when hit is much higher than hitting the high AC warrior.I retired my 24 mystic and now have a 21 templar because of this and the fact I hated the bear form.

[DeythCombi]

This has to do with templars because the comparison between wards and reactives is frequently discussed and this is always mentioned.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lazlo1 wrote:<BR>Its not a myth you are wrong. I have tested it. <BR><BR>AC will make the mobs MISS more , but the actual damage taken by the ward when hit is much higher than hitting the high AC warrior.<BR><BR>I retired my 24 mystic and now have a 21 templar because of this and the fact I hated the bear form.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Agility makes mobs miss more, armor class mitigates damage taken.  As I posted, wards do in fact lose some of that mitigation but it's not 100% like people have kept saying.</DIV>

[Celestian_]

<DIV>Well, if you wanna make the claim it's not true by all means do so, but I think the shaman group would be more interested.  That being said...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Scout/Dirge gets ward, attacks beetle, blam blam blam ward gone, dirge stands there for long time, wiff wiff wiff wiff, dirge gets ward, blam blam blam blam ward gone, dirge stands there for longer period of time, wiff wiff wiff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thats my experience.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[DeythCombi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Celestian_GC wrote:<BR> <DIV>Well, if you wanna make the claim it's not true by all means do so, but I think the shaman group would be more interested.  That being said...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Scout/Dirge gets ward, attacks beetle, blam blam blam ward gone, dirge stands there for long time, wiff wiff wiff wiff, dirge gets ward, blam blam blam blam ward gone, dirge stands there for longer period of time, wiff wiff wiff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thats my experience.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>My intention was to first inform the templar community, not debate the shaman one.</P> <P>Your example suggests that wards also decrease avoidance which is a separate issue and definitely worth testing too.</P>

[Auria]

<DIV>We do get a self-ward, but I do agree this was the wrong place to post this <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[lazlo1]

Im sorry, but you are quite wrong. Here are REAL number from my test, no BS guessing.Note my mystic was 22 not 24 like I thought, its been a while since I played that char.1300 AC lvl 25 Guardian vs lvl 23 mobThe ward takes double the damage that the guardian took.56.8 vs 26.8This is even worse than my last test on a 700 AC lvl 21 Guardian. Then it was around 50% increase in damage. I could not find that file so I redid the test. Im glad I did, now I feel even better about retiring my mystic. The results only seem to get worse. I hope Sony does something about this, but I was not gona wait around and see. I play almost always with a guardian since I plan to play EQ2 for a while I wanted the best match.I did notice one thing the ward does not seem to effect hit/miss ratio. I may have been wrong about AC affecting hit/miss ratio since clearly wards bypass AC.I also agree with many posters as this doesnt effect templars and doesnt belong on this forum. But I just wanted to set the record strait as the FACTs. Wards currently are pre AC as these number show.Here are the numbers I cut out all specials, misses, ect..Note this is all 1 blue solo 23 mob. The guardian didnt attack most of the fight.for this part I used only heals.a young antelope hits YOU for 40 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 17 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 36 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 22 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 26 points of crushing damage. 141a young antelope hits YOU for 22 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 23 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 39 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 15 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 28 points of crushing damage. 127a young antelope hits YOU for 28 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 30 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 35 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 20 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 40 points of crushing damage. 153a young antelope hits YOU for 15 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 38 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 38 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 34 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 27 points of crushing damage. 152a young antelope hits YOU for 24 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 25 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 35 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 38 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 25 points of crushing damage. 147a young antelope hits YOU for 34 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 17 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 23 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 38 points of crushing damage. 112832 / 29 = 28.6 average per hitFor this part I recast ward at 50% to make sure ward got it all.Your ward absorbed 45 points of damage!Your ward absorbed 38 points of damage!Your ward absorbed 65 points of damage!Your ward absorbed 76 points of damage!Your ward absorbed 65 points of damage! 309Your ward absorbed 34 points of damage!Your ward absorbed 69 points of damage!Your ward absorbed 42 points of damage!Your ward absorbed 57 points of damage!Your ward absorbed 48 points of damage! 250Your ward absorbed 51 points of damage!Your ward absorbed 65 points of damage!Your ward absorbed 71 points of damage!Your ward absorbed 64 points of damage!Your ward absorbed 46 points of damage! 297Your ward absorbed 66 points of damage!Your ward absorbed 44 points of damage!Your ward absorbed 49 points of damage!Your ward absorbed 57 points of damage!Your ward absorbed 79 points of damage! 295Your ward absorbed 40 points of damage!Your ward absorbed 76 points of damage!Your ward absorbed 53 points of damage!Your ward absorbed 76 points of damage!Your ward absorbed 41 points of damage! 286Your ward absorbed 41 points of damage! 411478 / 26 = 56.8 average per ward hit<p>Message Edited by lazlo1 on <span class=date_text>12-25-2004</span> <span class=time_text>11:02 AM</span>

[lazlo1]

woops I forgot to post the last test I did.The same guardian stripped vs the the same type/lvl of mob. A lvl 25 human guardian with nothing in the slots except a mace has around 300 ac. The damage was still not as high as with the ward on. So the ward is less than naked damage wise because of the base AC of a warrior.a naked very uncomfortable guardian getting only heals hehe.a young antelope hits YOU for 60 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 35 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 63 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 68 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 44 points of crushing damage. 270a young antelope hits YOU for 42 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 58 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 44 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 69 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 49 points of crushing damage. 262a young antelope hits YOU for 33 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 60 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 55 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 39 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 60 points of crushing damage. 247a young antelope hits YOU for 45 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 27 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 42 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 47 points of crushing damage.a young antelope hits YOU for 33 points of crushing damage. 194973 / 20 = 48.65<p>Message Edited by lazlo1 on <span class=date_text>12-25-2004</span> <span class=time_text>11:05 AM</span>

[DeythCombi]

<DIV>How can a warrior take more damage with full AC and a ward than naked without a ward?  That makes no sense at all.  Something is wrong with that test.</DIV>

[Mystiq]

<DIV>Interesting findings lazlo1. I've been convinced for some time that wards absorbed before an AC check, and this seems to be some pretty good evidence. I am admittedly not the most number crunching, "attention to detail" kind of person, but now that I'm 50th maybe I'll get bored enough to do some tests like these with my tank.</DIV>

[lazlo1]

<blockquote><hr>DeythCombine wrote:<DIV>How can a warrior take more damage with full AC and a ward than naked without a ward? That makes no sense at all. Something is wrong with that test.</DIV><hr></blockquote>The test is fine. The ward removes ALL AC. The number are EXACTLY what you would expect. A naked warrior has some AC about 300 in this case. So he takes a little less damage than 0 AC ward. Ward = 0 AC its very very simple! I guess you cannot admit you are wrong even with the numbers in front of you. If you dont believe the numbers go out and test it yourself. I write software for a living I am very sure of how I did the test. It was simple.1. find a blue solo mob that wont kill you, but can hit you2. engage the mob, taunt only, record the AC3. log the hits using heal only4. log the hits using ward only, cast early so its always up5. kill first mob since you can only uneqip 1 item every 2 seconds during combat6. strip the warrior except weapon note the AC, find the same mob, engage, log the hits using heal only7. read the logs post your results here and admit you are wrong

[DeythCombi]

<DIV>I posted that at around 4-5am.  I'd be more than happy to be proven right or wrong, I just want it proven.  Up until now not a single person ever posted test that I saw and that includes beta.  I will grab a mystic and test it more myself too.</DIV>

[lazlo1]

It has been proven. Deal with the Facts!

[DeythCombi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lazlo1 wrote:<BR>It has been proven. <BR><BR>Deal with the Facts!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Not yet.  Multiple tests should agree.  I should've had that mystic log his results too because they were different from yours.  When I have time I will do it again.

[lazlo1]

<blockquote><hr>DeythCombine wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>lazlo1 wrote:<BR>It has been proven. <BR><BR>Deal with the Facts!<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Not yet. Multiple tests should agree. I should've had that mystic log his results too because they were different from yours. When I have time I will do it again.<hr></blockquote>Dude .. I have done multiple test. I just posted the latest. Many real mystics have done this test also. Always with the same results. So until you can post real test logs and not just options, I consider the matter closed.

[DeythCombi]

<DIV>Which part of my posts are you having difficulty with?  I just said I need to do some more tests which I will post because yours don't match the ones reported to me the first time.  When I post them we can discuss.  If they match yours and don't raise any other questions it'll be closed.</DIV>

[Mystiq]

<DIV>You two stop turning this post into a childish game of gotcha last. You're practically reducing the believability of your findings as we speak.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The numbers speak for themselves. My 38 levels of using wards was enough to convince me anyways. Using common sense is also a good way to figure things out. Wards are placed on someone (read: on top of or around them) as protection from harm. This protection sits over armor and stats, and......even though I believe wards should be more powerful, rightfully so. There is no mitigation associated with wards. Hell....nukes, DoTs and even a few random specials break through wards even as they remain on the target afterwards.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regards,</DIV>