Templars/Clerics hated class? =(

[N0STALG]

<DIV>hey I played a druid in eq1 (backup healer) and a doctor in SWG and I love the healing class</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but I noticed that this is a class that gains hate quickly (not npc hate PC hate)  I am a lvl 20 templar currently and I noticed that if ANYTHING goes wrong then the cleric is the one that gets blamed for it (naturally we are the healers)  now with this said the majority doesn't complain but I have noticed that a lot of people still complain</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and I have even heard my name in shouts /ooc about bein a terrible healer!!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>this upsets me because well I do the best that I can, and with the resources I have available to me I think I do the best that I can.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>also one thing I have been wanting to talk about is our spells, at lvl 20 I noticed that I only heal for maybe 208 max I think? that is with minor arch healing adept 1.  and I also noticed the cast times and recast times are failry long,  now I do not believe that the cast-recast times do not have to be nothing, I like the idea of having these implemented, just turn them down a bit </DIV>

[Aldan]

<DIV>im a lvl 34 fury so i can talk as a healer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>reasons:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. tank could have very low AC for the xp spot and i mean very very very low.(if u go to the tempered clay room in varsoons with around 1500 buffed AC tank and if u are the only healer u have no chance imo.)</DIV> <DIV>2. tanks sometimes can make very bad pulls like 2+ red ^^ adds .</DIV> <DIV>3.some tanks dont check your mana between pulls.</DIV> <DIV>4. some tanks dont use taunt skills</DIV> <DIV>and some other reasons.which i cant remember now..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>if none of these happens u are a bad healer indeed. change your class pls.coz clerics are the best healers atm.</DIV>

[N0STALG]

<DIV>err they are supposed to be the best healer, that is their job.  None the less that stuff always happens, plus when I heal I get agro almost instantly</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i've been askin some groups not to pull until I say go tho, that way I can cast soothing sermon and bestowal of vitae on them right before we go into a fight</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but I dont wanna sound like an [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] ya know</DIV>

[Xran]

My Combat Healing Adept 1 (orange con) heals for at least 170.I believe Arch Healing heals more than that.No point using Minor Arch Healing anymore. BoV is probably our best bet..

[Ny]

<DIV>I've never had any grief for being a healer...quite the opposite really.</DIV> <DIV>I find maintaining BoV and the occasional Combat Healing is enough to keep the main tank in the green for all but the toughest encounters.</DIV> <DIV>You need to make sure your spells are upgraded, and ALWAYS debuff. There's always time to throw in a weakness/sign of weakness and a rebuke/disgrace, and they really do help the situation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But...then if you are doing nothing wrong at all, and still getting blamed, I guess you were just unfortunate with who you grouped with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sometimes the main tank just isn't tough enough to handle the mobs you're pulling - and if that's the case there's not much you can do except tell them and suggest a change.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Nyna on <span class=date_text>12-24-2004</span> <span class=time_text>01:02 AM</span>

[ken]

<DIV>So some suggestions:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>#1 On harder pulls cast your group soothing sermon before the tank pull.  Also BoV if very hard pull.  Let your tank know in advance, otherwise if he pulls while your casting you will get the mobs.</DIV> <DIV>#2 Don't go into fight mode until the tank gets back with the mobs.  You will regen the mana from your heal spells usally before he gets back this way.</DIV> <DIV>#3 Use BoV mainly.  Reds and sometimes oranges require added healing but primarily BoV.  Always let BoV expire before re-casting it (immediately for hard pulls) as it gets an extra expiration heal. For multiple mob pulls you should cast BoV after the tank loses some hitpoint.  With a 4 pull, BoV will expire immediately causing around 500hp heal.  If you cast it on the tank when he is full, it will just expire and be wasted so let his hitpoints drop to 75% or less.</DIV> <DIV>#4 Debuff the mob first when it gets to camp so that the damage dealers can do their job more effectively.  You pre-healed the group anyway so you have time.  Make sure the tank is on it first before debuffing.</DIV> <DIV>#5 For multiple mobs, I will use my area effect weakness spell first instead of the debuffs. </DIV> <DIV>#6 In general don't use your damage spells.  We get a DOT at lvl 23 or so that I think is worthwhile but only do this after you have your debuff's/heals going.</DIV> <DIV>#7 Make sure you buffed...tank should have the HP buff and then I give it to myself and anyone else that seems to get aggro from time to time (there is often times someone else who seems to want to play tank...).</DIV> <DIV>#8 Always watch your mana bar compared to the rest of the group.  You want to be one of the people with extra mana (another mob pops for example).  If you have a lot of extra mana then blast away!  If you always seem to run out then you need to see what your casting.</DIV> <DIV>#9 The function keys are your friends for selecting who is being hit along with the numbers on the keyboard.  They work a lot better then the mouse.</DIV> <DIV>#10 Always have the main tank selected when he pulls.  Never click on a mob.  While the fight is going on you can click the attack button and it will cause you to attack the MOB the tank is on.  When you debuff it will debuff the mob the tank is fighting.</DIV> <DIV>#11 Stand behind the mobs.  If you stand in front you are much more likely to take damage when the mob does a frontal area attack.</DIV> <DIV>#12 If your the only healer and the group is pulling reds you need to point out that you probably can't keep up with the healing.  </DIV> <DIV>#13 If someone other then the tank is getting hitting, remind them that they aren't the tank.</DIV>

[Epon]

<DIV>Im a lv 21 Kerran Templar and I group normally with a troll guardian. We have no problem whatsoever taking on yellow^^ in TS right now. I even have adept III BoV and have NEVER drawn agro from her. Ive casted 6 debuffs, and 3 heals and not drawn agro. Its the quality of tank that you have that effects how much agro you get. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think most tanks dont use their buffs as agro control, well, mine does. She uses her buffs mid-battle and doesnt lose agro unless someone else pulled them. Tanks need to use their buffs as agro and not as actual stat buffs. </DIV>

[Ironcleaver]

I can only speak as a level 20 Templar, but so far I've noticed the following happening a lot:First off, for some reason, Scouts and Monks seem to think they can tank a mob that is ++ and is a few levels higher then them. Not only do they not have the Armor for this they also do not that the Hit Points, not to mention most of the time thier armor is half gray. I find myself almost chain healing (BoV and standard healing) on these cats if they are the only tanks in the group. They are a great addition to any group, don't get me wrong, but I'd take a Paladin or Guardian anyday as the Main Tank.Then there's pulling when the Templar (or any other healer for that matter) isn't ready. I find that most of the time they will ask but all it takes is for them to see one "ready" or "gtg" from any member of the group and they are off like a rocket; this specialy happens with scouts as they tend to be trigger happy with their arrows. I then explain that I always want to get off Sermon before the pull, but this is often ignorded.A delicate matter, HO's. HO's are great and wonderful, but please, very please with a cherry on top, don't start HO's button mashing until at least 10 to 15 seconds into combat. This gives the healing classes and mages time to fully debuff the critter and get reactive-heals/regens in place. Just to add to this, a good healer will always break even the most complcated HO's to save someone's life. If a group has been fighting in the same spot for long enough, a healer will know when, and when not to, break HO's judging by pass experiances.A lot of the above is not the Templar's/Healer's fault (specialy if he/she is not the group leader). But, what I make sure I do, is if I have a moment, I do look at peoples equipment. This way if blame starts coming my way for people dieing, I can turn it around if they never bothered upgrading their armor, jewlery, and or weapons.People are quick to judge and blame the Healers of the world, when they should really be aware of what themselves are doing. If, by some reason, I am bashed in either Shouts or OOC's, I will defend myself and explain that the Tank maybe level 27, but is only wairing level 15 armor; this tends to straighten things right out.But, like I said, this is just from my experiances. Chin up my friend, no matter what they said, it's not always our fault.<p>Message Edited by Ironcleaver on <span class=date_text>12-24-2004</span> <span class=time_text>10:23 AM</span>

[Kikmaid]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> N0STALGIA wrote:<BR> <DIV>hey I played a druid in eq1 (backup healer) and a doctor in SWG and I love the healing class</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>to me I think I do the best that I can.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>also one thing I have been wanting to talk about is our spells, at lvl 20 I noticed that I only heal for maybe 208 max I think? that is with minor arch healing adept 1.  and I also noticed the cast times and recast times are failry long,  now I do not believe that the cast-recast times do not have to be nothing, I like the idea of having these implemented, just turn them down a bit </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I noticed you said further down that you use SS and BoV right before fight, which is good, but I'm just concerned about you mentioned arch healing there and suspect that could be related to people thinking that.  I always cringe when i see other priests of any type casting virtually only arch healing (see the hand above the head) as their main heal, it instantly strikes me as bad healer (unless they just chained it to keep a quickly dying tank alive, that's different).  Arch healing line has too slow cast time and sucks too much power to be of much use during combat, it's much better as a big heal after battle to get the tank ready to go again quickly.  As someone else said amongst this, concentrate on using BoV, and get it upgraded if you can - it's the most efficient healer, and throw in a combat healing when you're in need of a bit more healing.  And yes, debuff <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Tiredo]

<DIV>Wow,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've never had a problem as a healer (Lvl 21 Templar).  Now I've had a problem with Tanks pulling before I was fully rested, or before everyone in group was rested; but then it was made CLEAR by me or someone else in the group why we failed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, that being said, as a healer your really only as effective as your Tank.  If you have a good take you and most of your group will not take much damage leaving all of your heals for your Tank...BTW a good Tank knows what they can handle, if your in a group and the Tank is asking everyone  "Can we take this," then you probably can't.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But when you are in a group with a good Tank, everything is smooth sailing.  I know my limitations as a healer, and I've rarely failed in my duty.  I've never had a group say anything bad about me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not claiming to be the best, far from it, but I am highly competent; and that's "All that can be expected of us."</DIV>

[TROri]

I've been called a great and a horrible Templar and usually when the tank dies and the tank is the only one taking damage yes, it is my fault. If on the other hand I have 4 group members at 1/2 health and the tank at 1/4, then it's NOT my fault. Not saying it's anyone elses fault but it's certainly not mine.And no, the Templar is not the best healer in the game. Get over it. Inquisitors own us and shaman will keep a party alive quite easily (easier than us in general; unless it is multiple mob pulls then we do very well).1- get the tank ready before the pull. BoV is low agro but sermons are high agro.2- debuff. It is the difference between 70% mana used and 40% mana used. Especially in hard hitting zones.3- Arch healing or combat healing is the BACKUP to your BoV. This has been said before.4- Don't let scouts or mages take agro. Tell them not to if they do (in tells) and let them know you can't combat heal them in tough fights.5- don't be afraid of the phrase "oh, look at the time! gotta go!" If they didn't like you as healer they will be relieved, if not then the group will fade away with less XP debt.6- Find people you like and wait to group with them. 1 good hour is worth more than 3 bad hours.

[YupthatsRig]

<DIV>Level 27 Templar here.... speaking from both sides of the fence, its about team work.  We all have our jobs to do.  If you're in a group and the group dies, its generally a combination of all.  If a good tank over pulls he'll drag the mob away and take the hit.  Thats his job, he's a meat shield. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also remember our jobs as templars here is NOT the same as in EQ.  We dont stand around the sidelines and look all pretty anymore, we're in the meat of the battle as is everybody.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most every post here gives some sound advice which should give you more confidence in your skills.  One additional thing I do before starting in a group is ask "who's my main and who's my secondary", check their hit points and AC.  Make sure they "know" their  positions on 1st and 2nd and that they're not fighting the taunt back and forth.  Nothings worse than 2 tanks pulling it back and forth.  Its a power drain on the healer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you ever need some help, look me up or send me a PM.  I'd be happy to teach or share experiences.</DIV>

[Darioun]

<DIV>I haven't gotten any hate yet.  That being said, there's one important job for the Templar that hasn't come up yet.  It's my responsibility to gage how the battle is going and, if necessary tell the group "when this sermon finishes, RUN.  We can not win this fight".  I have my eyes on everyone's bars.  I'm generally the only one who knows when the situation has become untennable.</DIV>

[Loampound]

<DIV>There is a lot of good advice on their board.  I cannot stress enough to learn how to manage reactive heals and debuffs better.  Some thick-skulled tanks just think clerics are here to cast complete heal on them and don't know the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the blame game, it's partially a factor of our role as health-giver and party out of their frustrations.  One good benefit is that, because of our responsibility I guess, we tend to control the speed and behavior more (or perhaps it's just my big mouth).  Most tanks give me last word on when to pull.  If something is not going smoothly, I speak up.  If I have a new tank, I inspect his armor to make sure it's current.  Once I had hard problem keeping a monk alive in SH, so I inspected his armor - mostly grey and green.  His armor class was MUCH lower than mine so I told the party to get a new tank or I'm not moving anywhere.  Basically, if the party is not listening to you, find another party.</DIV>

[Dakure]

<DIV>I find quite the opposite.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a templar people will select my character over other healers- at least for MH.  I am usually MH even if a druid or shaman is present in the group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have yet to be blamed for the MT dying.   Stuff happens.  I've run OOP.  The tank has over pulled.  And so on- there is usually an obvious reason why tank (and then usually me) died.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I inform the group that for difficult pulls I like to use Soothing first, then BoV on incoming.  If the tank doesnt like that or wont listen, I'll restate my case and say that I'll find another group.  I've only had to do this once so far- and didnt have to leave the group.  BTW, once the group saw that allowing me to SS then BoV meant the tank stayed alive with minimal problem, they stopped being as spastic.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do think the refresh is far too slow on some of our critical heals.  I've lost my MT a few times because of it.  I have all my main heal spells hot-keyed and cycle through them when required.  For most pulls combat heal, BoV, SS, and greater are all I need.  But in a crunch (like an add or two), the refresh rate can be a bit slow.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As to aggro, I get hit now and then- but its usually my fault for healing too soon.  I'm usually willing to take a hit or two to keep the MT alive.  But, fully 90+% of the time, I dont get aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As to H.O.'s I havent heard anyone complain to me about breaking them.  I think most groups would choose for a healer to break an H.O. and heal the MT than to wait for an H.O. to finish and MT die.  My response to anyone accusing me of breaking H.O.s would be- "fine- next time I wont heal (you or MT) and let you complete your H.O.)."  If that doesnt shut them up, tell them that your prefence is to heal and live rather than H.O. and die.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And has been mentioned.  If the group you're in is giving you grief, move on.  After the teens, its pretty hard for a group to function without a healer.  I see groups oocing for healers all the time, simply send a tell to that group and move.</DIV>

[Tarqui]

Great Advice here!!!Only my lev 22 perspective so pardon me cluelessness<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I rarely if ever use our standard heals.For normal multiple pulls I also like to throw in an amending fate to keep the grp fresh for the next one<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Small bit of mana compared to arch etc.I do notice our mitigating melee brethren require much more attention. Wards seem more sutible fer monks etc. versus reactives. I find the Heavy tanks to be our bread and butter generally.Question to my fellow Templars.While I have a good amount of soloin under me belt to mainly bring up my parry/defense etc.When I'm in a normal group hunting normally I usually do not melee.I like to have my eyes on grp spells etc.Are you all meleein?I'll jump in if I see my little melee dmg can offer something but I mostly tend to healin.I'm a bit curious if yer all in the thick of it, or healin,overseeing, watchin fer adds etc.Thoughts please...

[Darioun]

<DIV>I tend to turn on melee and assist the main tank.  I've got him targeted for heals anyway, and if I'm behind the opponents I add damage at very little risk.</DIV>

[YupthatsRig]

<DIV>Ditto... I generally fight with main targed /assisting, unless its laggy or extremely busy.  I sometimes find myself when fighting to not watch my bars quite as well as I should, so if constant mobs or danger I'll turn and face the wall for less lag, depends on the group and circumstances.</DIV>

[Dakure]

<DIV>I usually only melee if we're doing "easy pulls."  Typically I stand behind the MT so I can watch everything- I tend to notice adds first as a result.  Also, during "easy" pulls I'll fully debuff- difficult pulls I'll only use the weakness and AC/resist debuffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I tank plenty when I solo so my melee skills are usually maxed.</DIV>

[N0STALG]

<DIV>well I appreciate the 1 starring trollers out there,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>this was not meant to be a flame guys just curious if you guys get the same response, I mean I do everything ya'll say and most the time it goes well but not always</DIV>