Reproving smite, or why power cost in spell upgrades is broken

[Gwynet]

<DIV>Numbers, at 36 :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Admonishing smite (level 18 spell) - adept 1 - 48 power - nukes between 120 and 160 in average</DIV> <DIV>Reproving smite (level 31 spell) - app2 - 61 power - nukes for 100ish, rarely 110</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I got reproving smite, it cost 55ish power, and was nuking for 75. 5 levels later, it costs more power, and still hits for less than the level 18 spell adept 1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At this rate, it will be worth using at 38 or 39 (spell caps at 41), but how much more power will it cost? Probably around 70. Vs a 48 power nuke... you do the math. The app3+ will probably increase the power cost by another 10ish each, which won't change anything to the problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sounds like another SP to me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit : changed to 18... Dunno why I thought it was 23</DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by Gwynet on <span class=date_text>12-15-2004</span> <span class=time_text>08:30 AM</span>

[DeythCombi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gwynet wrote:<BR> <DIV>Numbers, at 36 :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Admonishing smite (level 23 spell) - adept 1 - 48 power - nukes between 120 and 160 in average</DIV> <DIV>Reproving smite (level 31 spell) - app2 - 61 power - nukes for 100ish, rarely 110</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I got reproving smite, it cost 55ish power, and was nuking for 75. 5 levels later, it costs more power, and still hits for less than the level 23 spell adept 1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At this rate, it will be worth using at 38 or 39 (spell caps at 41), but how much more power will it cost? Probably around 70. Vs a 48 power nuke... you do the math. The app3+ will probably increase the power cost by another 10ish each, which won't change anything to the problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sounds like another SP to me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> I've felt from the beginning that the spell/skill system in EQ2 has been its greatest failure.  This is no surprise.

[Lifewast]

Yep, this spell is totally useless compared to the lvl 18 admonishing. (its actually only lvl 18, not 23 gwyn)Also there doesnt seem to be any difference in resist rate when using either, mob resists seem based solely on your lvl vs the mob lvl. I've been using lvl 4 smite to trigger/finish off HOs in emergencies when soloing and out of mana, and the resist rate is exactly the same....Its not even worth using for chaining with the lvl 18 since the refresh is so fast also.......So hmm, I guess we may start using this spell at lvl 45 or so if ever....Guess we may as well buy another silver for adept3 admonishing<p>Message Edited by Lifewaster on <span class=date_text>12-15-2004</span> <span class=time_text>07:57 AM</span><p>Message Edited by Lifewaster on <span class=date_text>12-15-2004</span> <span class=time_text>07:58 AM</span>

[Fugaci]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gwynet wrote:<BR> <DIV>Numbers, at 36 :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Admonishing smite (level 23 spell) - adept 1 - 48 power - nukes between 120 and 160 in average</DIV> <DIV>Reproving smite (level 31 spell) - app2 - 61 power - nukes for 100ish, rarely 110</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I got reproving smite, it cost 55ish power, and was nuking for 75. 5 levels later, it costs more power, and still hits for less than the level 23 spell adept 1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At this rate, it will be worth using at 38 or 39 (spell caps at 41), but how much more power will it cost? Probably around 70. Vs a 48 power nuke... you do the math. The app3+ will probably increase the power cost by another 10ish each, which won't change anything to the problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sounds like another SP to me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>But gwynet, you just got the spell, you need to grow into it.  It will eventually do like 20 more damage than the level 18 spell, just wait a couple levels or get an adept 3 of admonishing smite while you wait.  The level 36 spell is suppose to suck compared to the level 18 spell. </DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think for the most part, many of the spell upgrades are borked.  At the higher levels they seem to make a little bit of sense once you have grown into them and you have adept3 version of it, but that is crazy.  It should be worth it when we get it, and then grow into something better as we level.</DIV></DIV>

[Gwynet]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fugacity wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>But gwynet, you just got the spell, you need to grow into it.  It will eventually do like 20 more damage than the level 18 spell, just wait a couple levels or get an adept 3 of admonishing smite while you wait.  The level 36 spell is suppose to suck compared to the level 18 spell. </DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>:smileyvery-happy:<BR> <DIV> </DIV></FONT>

[Gobbwin]

<DIV>/agrees</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IMO it should be that the spell upgrade is atleast as good as the app3 or adept 1 of the spell that it is replacing.  So initially it will be weaker than the spell that it is replacing if you have adept 3 of it, but getting app 3 of this and into the adepts, even when just getting the spell should put it on par, if not blow away the spell prior to it.  Otherwise we might as well not even get the spell until lvl 45 if it is not going to be useful until then.  I'm starting to notice a trend, most everything low 20s and below works fairly well, most, not all.  But most everything above mid 20s is broken, perhaps this wasn't that thoughally tested in beta.  A lot of people I've spoken with who played beta never got past the 20s, i've only spoken with a couple who did.  Also they did a ton of changes right towards the end of beta, perhaps those hacked things up a bit.  SOE was in a rush to get it out for the holidays and to compete with WoW, so it wouldn't be suprizing if they mainly focused on the initial part of the game (lower levels and correlating zones) and left many of the higher end problems lay until there was more people at that lvl.  I'm not trying to flame sony, most major software companies do this, they MUST meet release dates and "you can always fix things with a patch".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Note:  I work in a software company, call us an evil organization for having the patch mentality, but thats the way of things.  I don't agree with it, but who am I???</DIV>

[EbinaHB]

I'm 42 now. Admonishing is gray, and Reproving is blue. Admonishing is Adept I and Reproving is now Apprentice IV. Admonishing still is better by a few points, not to mention the 48 power cost compared to Reproving's 75. This has to be changed heavily. Needs damage boost greatly.

[BlackFlowe]

It's lame, I agree. Our Smite upgrades, aren't exactly upgrades. I remember feeling just as bummed out making a new level and receiving a new Smite as I did whenever I got an EB (Watery line) upgrade. Nuke, EB.. who cares? My job is healing, screw the fluff spells.Anyways..My highest average nuke is for 291 at level 50 using Celestial Strike (Master I)... should tell you a bit as to how well the damage scales (hehe..) =/

[Xran]

I believe ALL the spells and combat arts for L30+ have same problems across all the board/classes.If you look into Spells/Abilities forum:Our L30+ spells are COPIES of L10-20+ ones. Just that they have their Minimum Skill and Mastery Skill raised.Other than that, it is an exact copy - exact function. Which explains why L30+ spells suck because theyare still essentially L20+ spells but with minimum skill raised. <b>Thus SOE copying L20+ spells template into L30 ones achieve this:</b>1. Save time without having to create new spells2. Our L30 spells are weaker for LONG LONG time3. Even though L30+ spells have reach mastery, they are essentially L20 ones that "seem better" because of higher mastery skill.But with higher power costs - they are useless.

[Xran]

And in essence it will take 21 levels for L30+ spells to exceed your previous L10-20+ spells.14 levels to get the new L30+ spellsanother 7 levels to get the spell to start digging into the required/mastery skill requirement.

[Kassanthala]

<DIV>This is Obviously broken! I have admonishing smite at app 4 - it does right now at lvl 32 between 100-120dmg. I just got Reproving smite and upgraded it to app 4. The most it does is 95dmg. It does upgrade because at app 1 it was only doing 74 damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Both of these spells are at app 4. Admonishing smite is a lvl 18 (?) spell and Reproving smite is a lvl 32 spell yet Repoving Smite does not do as much damage as Admonishing Smite.!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please I hope this someone reads this and it gets fixed.</DIV>