So I grouped with an inquisitor

[Gwynet]

<DIV>It was interesting. His single target reactive was healing for 157 at level 32 for app3, while mine is still struggling at 132 at 35. Nothing new there, but I got surprised by the difference in the group heal. Mine, adept 1, heals for 284, while his heals for 180ish only, also adept 1...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So now I'm confused. Is it intended to be this way? Is it a bug? I'd personally much rather have a single target reactive working better than a group reactive being overpowered, as group reactives are wasted way too much IMO by healing tanks already at 100%.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just really don't like it... Opinions?</DIV>

[Danm]

I am a level 31 Inq. My adept1 29th level group reactive (contrite grace) is healing for 169 a tick I believe. I think my app2 26th level single target reactive is doing 139/tick. That may have been the level 30 heal amount though.It seems the templar group reactive is far and away better from the numbers you are posting.

[Gwynet]

<DIV>Yeah... I don't understand the dev's intentions at all. I don't see any reason why our single target reactive should be so underpowered, and our group one so overpowered.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That being said, we're still getting the shaft, our group reactive costs more than twice more the power of the single taret reactive, but definitely doesn't heal for 2x the inquisitor single target heal. And we're still using the level 12 single target heal at 35.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Does it seem to anyone else that the dev didn't put any thought at all in the spells they made? It seems to me that both the single reactive of templar and the group reactives of inquisitor are broken.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Gwynet on <span class=date_text>12-13-2004</span> <span class=time_text>11:03 AM</span>

[Danm]

It honestly seems like they just threw in some ballpark figures for mid to upper level spells, and planned to come back and tune them when people start complaining.I have to say I am bummed that your group reactive heals for so much more. My 29th group reactive is my bread and butter. 100 more per reactive on it would be a godsend.-Dan

[Celestian_]

<DIV>During beta I played a cleric and at that time we had regens, not reactives. Mind you they might of had them at upper levels but I just wasn't in the level frenzy to find out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Did we have reactives at ALL until they removed regens from clerics?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Gwynet]

<DIV>Yes we did.</DIV>

[Andar]

<DIV>What level is our upgrade to Soothing Sermon (group reactive)?  From looking at the posted spell list, I thought it was 42 with Crucial Intercession.  But it sounds like you already have an upgrade by level 35.</DIV>

[Ender]

For my style of play, I'd prefer single target reactives over group reactive any day. Maybe I will have to change due to whats going on with the Templar's lvl 26 reactive but thats ok too. Thats no problem though, since I can adapt and survive in any situation.

[Gwynet]

<DIV>28 for intercession.</DIV>

[Ogrelicio]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> EnderMX wrote:<BR>For my style of play, I'd prefer single target reactives over group reactive any day. Maybe I will have to change due to whats going on with the Templar's lvl 26 reactive but thats ok too. Thats no problem though, since I can adapt and survive in any situation.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> You and me both.  I rarely use the group reactive during combat since, generally, the MA is the only one taking damage.  I use the group reactive before a difficult pull, in addition to the single.

[Nen]

<DIV>I find the same to be true. I cast reactives before combat begins, but find I'm generally hitting the MT with single heals during combat unless there is some AoE that hurts everyone, which is much less common.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Kikmaid]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> EnderMX wrote:<BR>For my style of play, I'd prefer single target reactives over group reactive any day. Maybe I will have to change due to whats going on with the Templar's lvl 26 reactive but thats ok too. Thats no problem though, since I can adapt and survive in any situation.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>This is not about adapting or surviving, as yes - we are all able to actually deal with a situation, and most of us are still able to heal pretty well inspite of any imbalance.  But just because we're able to make-do with the situation to some extent, doesn't make it right.  If there's an imbalance in the healing power of one profession versus another, it doesn't mean that the disadvantaged profession can't heal.  It just means that no matter how good the player is, their ability to heal in harder situations will be more limited, meaning they have to take on easier situations than they may have otherwise been able to, and more importantly than other priests might be able to.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A Templar having disadvantages in healing over any other priest, or Inquisitor would be fine if there was some other compensating factor.  Unfortunately, from the facts we've been presented with so far show that the Templar lacks some of the variety and offensive power of some other classes, supposedly due to a slight increase in theoretical healing power.  Yet in reality, at least one of our main heals are severely underpowered, meaning that we get the best of no worlds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At level 27 I can see how much weaker my app3 Supplicant's Prayer is than my adept3 BoV - it doesn't take any level of intelligence to work out that 134 per tick on adept3 BoV versus 99 per tick on app3 Supplican't Prayer for the same power is a clear difference that doesn't make any sense, regardelss of whether SP is still orange to me or not.  Having said that, SP is not useless - it's nice to be able to cast both BoV + SP on a target so they will have extra long lasting reactives, and the 2 can be chain cast if necessary.  But just because I find it useful, still doesn't mean that the low power of SP is *right* - it's still wrong that a level 26 spell should be so underpowered by comparison to a level 12 spell.  Considering that as a cleric the single target reactives are by far the most used spells and most efficient way of healing, if ours is weaker than another professions it is unfair unless we have some other equal compensating factor.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For a long time I haven't commented on this, even though I've read a lot about it, because until recently I didn't have any personal experience in it.  I've read many of Gwynet's comments on the situation, and they are all appear to be fairly rational and reasonable comments, however I did sometimes have doubts.  Now that I have personal experience in how some of the spells work, I can actually back up some of what she says.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So far, almost every person I've seen argue against what Gwynet is saying about the brokenness of Templar spells (in particular SP - the single target reactive) has been people that aren't even high enough level to use the spells that are being discussed - in which case you really should wait until you have some experience before you give such an "authorative" view on the situation that you don't even know yet.  The other type of person I see argue, is the ones that want to pronounce their own greatness and demonstrate how much better they are than everyone else because even with disadvantages they're able to do things well.  It may be news to those people that they're not the only ones that are able to keep a team alive quite well inspite of very tough conditions, and receive praise from their team on doing such a good job.  Yes, I'm sure there are clerics out there that suck, but just because somebody is complaining about something that's broken doesn't automatically make them one of them.  It doesn't matter how good you are at working with the broken tools you have at your disposal, they're still broken and there is nothing wrong with asking for something that's broken to be fixed.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kikmaidog on <span class=date_text>12-15-2004</span> <span class=time_text>11:34 AM</span>

[Kikmaid]

<BLOCKQUOTE>Bleh double post.</BLOCKQUOTE><p>Message Edited by Kikmaidog on <span class=date_text>12-15-2004</span> <span class=time_text>11:33 AM</span>

[Ender]

oh no, i'm not arguing with you, i'm all for our lvl 26 supplicant's prayer to be upgraded. all i'm saying is that i could make do with our tools right now but the situation could be alot better for us when our single target reactive gets fixed.

[Kikmaid]

<DIV>Sorry if I misunderstood your intentions.</DIV>