Just wanted to thank SoE for the great class, Templar

[Kyrakath]

<DIV>                        I dont know about anyone else but at this point in my career as a templar Im very happy with the new system SoE has created for this new Norrath. They have said somewhere that they wanted intuition to be more of a role than the original. It has become that way. Fighting and grouping flows and there is no set "camps" no stagnation and no repetition. The spawn times on mobs is superiorly done. The less of an emphasis on "uber" gear is superiorly done. No more will I look for a set camp and do the same thing over and over again for 12 hours and no longer will I cast the same heal over and over again for hours. I am now casting at least 6 different spells per encounter and for the challenging ones about 8 or 9. At 34 i have the best equipment for my level and a whole 8 slot backpack made by myself in a tradeskill instance full of gear from named in instanced zones and in common zones like Runnyeye for when I level up to wear. The instanced zones, Nektropos, the Tomb of Valor show me where you were really concerned and I have never had so much fun in my 5 or so years of playing everquest than when I did a week ago. The "lockingout" that we get when wiping in an instanced zone makes it that much better and makes it that much more valuable. The challenge and mystery that has been set in your instanced zones is great and a relief of having to LFG in zones with repetitive people with repetitive and predicatable values.</DIV> <DIV>                        Having aquired adept one Restoration the other night from nektropos combined with adept 1 intercession has made the "fear" I find in most pickup groups dissappear. Groups dont need a second healer anymore with an enchanter. Groups dont need an enchanter with a shammy or druid in the group. However in every group I see there is at least one templar or inquisitor. I dont see anything that needs to be fixed. All I see are challenges to be overcome. If youre **mods 4 teh win!!1!** enough to even want Faith's respect to be changed then I feel sorry for you. But thanks SoE designers you have done a great job. Dont change a thing, just make some things better. And uh dont fix what's not broken. A certain level 26 templar spell comes to mind.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rhoulicas 34 Templar of Unrest</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Gwynet]

<DIV>I love the class as well. Would just like our 26 heal to be in line with the one inquisitors get at the same level. All the rest works great (except a few bugs <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).</DIV>

[Ender]

Think you know? I don't think you know. Please fix what is broken. And a certain level 26 Templar reactive heal spell does come to mind. Nonetheless, yes Sony did do a good job but that doesn't mean there is no room for improvement. Don't bother arguing with me on whether the lvl 26 reactive is broken or not. My templar is lvl 35, my friend's inquisitor is also lvl 35 with the same spell levels so yes I know what I'm talking about and my friend agrees with me that our lvl 26 isn't working right.

[Gwynet]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> EnderMX wrote:<BR>Think you know? I don't think you know. Please fix what is broken. And a certain level 26 Templar reactive heal spell does come to mind. Nonetheless, yes Sony did do a good job but that doesn't mean there is no room for improvement. Don't bother arguing with me on whether the lvl 26 reactive is broken or not. My templar is lvl 35, my friend's inquisitor is also lvl 35 with the same spell levels so yes I know what I'm talking about and my friend agrees with me that our lvl 26 isn't working right.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Amen<BR>

[Kyrakath]

<DIV>I have an idea and some advice for you [Removed for Content] healers who havent figured it out yet. Its not the spells its you. Dont use supps prayer anymore. Dont use BoV anymore. I went by a 33 temp and watched him deep in Runnyeye still using BoV on a freekin named mob, a level 12 spell. And of course as i cried in embarrasment the party wiped. When are you people going to figure out how to play this class? All of you who are complaining just dont know what youre doing. Use intercession adept one. If you have the smarts to time it right you can impress the hell out of your groupmates and make the shaman feel useless. I dont even want shamans or second healers in my groups anymore. Given an enchanter and the right drink and its too easy with intercession. It  stacks with BoV when I need that extra 450 health on top of the 1600 health the single cast of intercession will give my tank in hps. Plus it heals the whole group when those evil eyes AoE or when you get a quick add. Gving you the time to what? Cast Intercession again. Combined with amelioration and restoration you can own those level 41 named in runnyeye past those miners, past those tormentors where it really gets messy. You and your inquisitor friend just have missed the boat. You guys have been usin the wrong reactives. You are just missing out on how to play this combat system. It has nothing to do with EQ1. Let the game go.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rhoulicas 34 Dark Elf Templar of Unrest</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kyrakathas on <span class=date_text>12-11-2004</span> <span class=time_text>12:17 AM</span>

[Ender]

/yawn to the above post.

[Kyrakath]

<DIV>/shrug to the posters post above me's ignorance</DIV>

[Gwynet]

<DIV>Intercession is a situational spell. If you have to use a 5 second casting time, 220 power spell to keep your party alive, you're wasting too much power, or you don't know how to use the lower spells to make them efficient. Honestly, I've always done well with no other healer in group deep in Runnyeye.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That you feel you have to use such a power-hog spell to keep your party healed clearly shows that our single reactive heal is broken as well.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Gwynet on <span class=date_text>12-11-2004</span> <span class=time_text>08:04 AM</span>

[usaev]

<DIV>/nod with the post above (continueing trend)</DIV>

[Ender]

I use intercession when I have to, not because I want to. Sure, I can use power-costly group reactives to keep a single target alive. . .but that doesn't mean it ought be done. Atm, I stack my group and BoV and it gets me by. But this has absolutely NOTHING to do with our lvl 26 reactive heal's fix and so far you've not managed to convince anyone in this forum about your view of supplicant's prayer. Congratulations for arguing. . .for the sake of arguing.

[Gwynet]

<DIV>Well intercession is still 200% the power than the inquisitor single reactive heal, and heals for maybe 175% of it, so it's not a solution either.</DIV>

[Gobbwin]

<DIV>Its simply amazing how a good, positive post (that we all hope to see, admit it or not) can be totally perverted and corrupted by a few people.  Can we please keep the childish bickering and arguing to the 100000000000000 other negative posts to better perserve the 3 or 4 positive ones?  That'd be great...</DIV>

[Gwynet]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gobbwin wrote:<BR> <DIV>Its simply amazing how a good, positive post (that we all hope to see, admit it or not) can be totally perverted and corrupted by a few people.  Can we please keep the childish bickering and arguing to the 100000000000000 other negative posts to better perserve the 3 or 4 positive ones?  That'd be great...</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Yeah, I agree that not altering a positive post would be great. However, it's not the case. 90% of the templars that post here agree that a spell is broken, and he comes here saying it's not, when he doesn't even use it, then says we are [Removed for Content] healers because we don't heal the way he does... </P> <P>No offense, but he's just asking for it. The rest of the thread was fine though, even if for most of it I don't see the link to templars much.</P> <P>In case you don't know, all of us love our class as well, or we wouldn't be here. We just want it to work as it should. That is, fixing *one* spell. Personally, seeing someone come and say we are pathetic whiners and the such when we are trying to make our class better, and when we have all the numbers to show that SP is broken, is just royally [Removed for Content] me off.</P> <P>But I guess he's just a troll who enjoys [Removed for Content] people off anyway, when I see how non-constructive and argumentative his posts usually are.</P><p>Message Edited by Gwynet on <span class=date_text>12-16-2004</span> <span class=time_text>07:23 AM</span>

[Fugaci]

<DIV>I don't think this was ever a "positive" post. It is amazing to me, and I imagine several others here, the number of people that will say SP isn't broken even when the numbers show that it is.  What is the point of saying this?  I really don't understand.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I too agree the game is great, I love everything about the game the original poster does.  However, whether the poster uses SP or not it is still broken.  No one who has argued that SP is broken has said we were impossible to play at higher levels.  It just doesn't make sense that a higher level spell(which is an UPGRADE) is less useful than the spell it upgrades.  And SP isn't the only one like this in our class and we aren't the only class with examples of this behavior.  We all have to find our own work arounds until this gets fixed.   But its pretty funny that this guy's bread and butter is using a GROUP vitae as a SINGLE vitae and then says there is nothing wrong with SP, you don't shouldn't even be using it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The numbers show SP is broken and even if he refuses to admit it this guys tactics prove it is broken as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There have been complaints about vitaes vs wards and how some people feel we are [Removed for Content] compared to that. I personally haven't seen that yet, I am normally the sole healer, in pickup groups I might be in with a shaman, but normally I could have been the sole healer and everything would have been just fine.  On the surface wards are nice because they prevent damage, I've been in many situations where my vitaes heal for more damage than the tank takes outside of the mobs specials, which means in the end the tank hasn't lost that much hp especially once it is drained of power.  I also haven't fought red ^^ mobs, nor have I ever in my entire profession just camped for XP.  I typically fight whatever I need to fight to further the quests that I have, or those that I am grouping with, and have at no point felt the need to grind. As a result, maybe others who play differently than myself may experience a greater imbalance.  This imbalance would definitely be helped by fixing our SP.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Fugacity on <span class=date_text>12-16-2004</span> <span class=time_text>11:32 AM</span>

[Voltari]

<DIV> <DIV>It may be the fact that i"m a 30+ Provisioner and I have stacks of yummy drinks with me and in me at all times but I find I have enough Power to Stack all my reactives and doing any needed healing/debuffing/etc needed. UNless its a really long fight or some crazy aggro on multipule party members I feel no Power drain pain. In a straight fight, I find it hard to put a dent in my Power consumption and if we have 8-10 sec. between pulls I find I can rinse and repeat this to infinity.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The problems I see with BoV and my reactives is the unpredictablilty of them. Some times they just don't proc. I've watched my tank go to 50% Heal with stacked reactives and I"m talking after 10-20 hits, other times times it procs so fast its wasted because the tanks Heal bar bleeds over from all the procing. Another funny trend I noticed is that the REALLY good tanks Guardians and the likes that are built to take hits proc ALOT less then say a Pally or Berzerker. I almost like puting Reactives on lesser tanks better because they're more predictable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Heck I got through the EL access quest with a pally and a berzerker just by spamming Soothing Serium. That was hillarious, those guys took 30 min. to kill all the mobs but no one was dien!</DIV></DIV>

[Fugaci]

<DIV>Are you trying to say that your drinks are helping you during combat?  Because which drinks and at what teir do they start benefiting your power regen rate above 1% during combat?  How many extra points are you getting per tick with the drink?</DIV><p>Message Edited by Fugacity on <span class=date_text>12-16-2004</span> <span class=time_text>01:27 PM</span>

[Ender]

drinks don't help regen during combat, only out of combat will effect. spells like breeze however, will help regen during combat.

[Fugaci]

That's what I thought and have personally experienced.

[Gobbwin]

<DIV>Its called an opinion, everyone has one.  He has his methods and others have theirs, who's to say which is better?  Especially if both work, granted one may work better than the other, but reguardless the end result is the same, the party stays alive...  For the most part his post was positive, he doesn't see anything wrong with SP, ok thats his opinion, hes entitled to it.  Take things with a grain of salt and no biggie, but no, everyone is soo frustrated, we'd rather have it out in the forums.  That was what my post was about, god forbid that someone have an opinion other than what is popular.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as our class being winers, well read back through some of the posts... How many started with something to the affect of "this is BS, i quit"?  There are more of these in the newb forums as thats the general dumping ground.  Do I think that our 26 spell isn't working properly? no, not at all.  But do I think that this will keep me from playing my part in a group well? newp, just gotta work harder and know more about my class than the average bear.  But again, thats just my 2cp.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Flame away :smileymad:</DIV><p>Message Edited by Gobbwin on <span class=date_text>12-16-2004</span> <span class=time_text>12:11 PM</span>

[Gwynet]

<DIV>Actually if he could learn from your post, it would be nice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seriously, before taking sides, go read his other posts in other threads and you will see who doesn't respect other people's opinion. Don't think I am the one who called him [Removed for Content] healer because he doesn't heal the way I do.</DIV>

[Gobbwin]

<DIV>Excuse me for not spending hours researching all of certain peoples posts because I don't happen to agree with their view on things.  I peruse the forums, not live here.</DIV>

[Gwynet]

<DIV>Doesn't matter... It's not a matter of opinion when you have numbers. It's like people arguing that the earth isn't round or something. It pisses me off because I've been trying REALLY hard to have it fixed, and you have people coming out of nowhere saying everything is fine. How is it going to get fixed if people start saying it isn't broken, even though we have the numbers to prove it? You tell me. Am I frustrated? You bet. As to being called a [Removed for Content] healer because I want to have my spell fixed, I don't get it. I'm not one to come insult people when I don't agree with their way of doing things.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I couldn't care less if you can still heal without it. Sure, I can as well, and we are still efficient in groups. But it's not the point. Because your car can still run fine, are you not going to change your motor if for some reason it consumes twice as much gas as it should? It's just the same thing. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Call me a whiner, I really don't care if I have to go through that to get something fixed. Truth is, even when people have a point and the arguments and numbers to prove it, people are called whiners and there will always be others to come and disagree just to [Removed for Content] them off. Human nature I guess.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You know what the problem is? The templar community is the least united community I have seen, and it's pretty sad. If most of us agreed that something needs to be changed, and have good arguments for it, I wouldn't come and claim everywhere that it works fine. I guess it's just me.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Gwynet on <span class=date_text>12-16-2004</span> <span class=time_text>12:34 PM</span>

[Ender]

Listen. Let's get back to the main issue which is to fix the lvl 26 reactive heal. In reality though, it's entirely up to the Devs. No matter how much we bring up the issue (and yes we've brought it up quite often), it's up to the Devs to fix it. This was no one's fault and the sooner this is resolved, the better it will be.

[Fugaci]

<DIV>All of his posts are one big contradiction, first he doesn't want SP fixed because it isn't broken.  When all data shows that it is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then in his next post he bemoans the use of BO, since it is a  level 12 spell and calls anyone still using it a [Removed for Content]. He then goes on to say that when he really needs extra healing after intercession, he uses bov for an extra 450 hp (incidently my bov does 102,102,102,102+101 for 509 hp as i still need to get adept3).  Why the heck isn't he using SP instead of BOV? Didn't he just call everyone who uses BOV a [Removed for Content]? He doesn't use it because it uses too much power and does heal enough for the extra power used. I do believe that the last tick on SP is larger than BOV's, so you get a bit more benefit for total HP healed, but its still not comparable to the Inquisitors and still too low overall.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The majority of his first post had nothing to do with templars, but to the game in general.  His entire post on Templars amounts to look at me i'm awesome.  You don't need to fix SP because I'm glad it heals less than BOV as it makes the rest of the Templars act like unskilled noobs.</DIV>

[Gobbwin]

<DIV>I would love to see it fixed as well, don't get me wrong, but step back a sec and look at the big picture.  Please.  Does our 26 reactive heal work? Yes it does, does it work as intended? not a chance in hell, but it IS working.  Thats what the devs mainly care about.  There are tons of other things that DON"T work at all, that is what they are focused on.  This is a problem and it has been petitioned, bugged, and feedback has been provided.  Hell someone even parsed it, that is all we can do, nothing more.  We can [Removed for Content] and moan all we want, but that is only going to cause hate and discontent...just like it is now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are other things getting fixed faster?  Most definately, they've spent a lot of time tweaking crafting, but look at them, they aren't united together at all, BUT look back a week ago when merchants temporarily wouldn't buy back items.  They united together, reguardless of their differances or differances of opinion, they banded together and filled more than 50 pages of replys in under a day!  We don't have enough templars to do that, not even close, our longest topic (the 26 heal) spans multiple threads and are only a couple pages long.  Point being, we're a small crowd and as they say "appease the masses".  They will focus on what the majority of the players are saying as wrong, unless something is broken entirely.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Peruse through the other classes, they all have their complaints as well, there is a lot of things not working right in the game and they are dealing with them as best they can, but bugs can take a long time to fix, let alone find.  So large number of bugs + a handful of people addressing them = a while before "lower priority" issues are addressed.  Is it of extreme importance to us?  Hells yes, but as I said in the first paragraph, its not completely broken, nor are we the dominant class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also on top of all this, they are adding new content, the ingame email, additional crafting enhancements, the lvl 10 Training, etc..  So there's even more work for them.  I work in a computer company and work with computer code everyday and have learned the following things:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Gobbwin]

<DIV>I would love to see it fixed as well, don't get me wrong, but step back a sec and look at the big picture.  Please.  Does our 26 reactive heal work? Yes it does, does it work as intended? not a chance in hell, but it IS working.  Thats what the devs mainly care about.  There are tons of other things that DON"T work at all, that is what they are focused on.  This is a problem and it has been petitioned, bugged, and feedback has been provided.  Hell someone even parsed it, that is all we can do, nothing more.  We can [Removed for Content] and moan all we want, but that is only going to cause hate and discontent...just like it is now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are other things getting fixed faster?  Most definately, they've spent a lot of time tweaking crafting, but look at them, they aren't united together at all, BUT look back a week ago when merchants temporarily wouldn't buy back items.  They united together, reguardless of their differances or differances of opinion, they banded together and filled more than 50 pages of replys in under a day!  We don't have enough templars to do that, not even close, our longest topic (the 26 heal) spans multiple threads and are only a couple pages long.  Point being, we're a small crowd and as they say "appease the masses".  They will focus on what the majority of the players are saying as wrong, unless something is broken entirely.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Peruse through the other classes, they all have their complaints as well, there is a lot of things not working right in the game and they are dealing with them as best they can, but bugs can take a long time to fix, let alone find.  So large number of bugs + a handful of people addressing them = a while before "lower priority" issues are addressed.  Is it of extreme importance to us?  Hells yes, but as I said in the first paragraph, its not completely broken, nor are we the dominant class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also on top of all this, they are adding new content, the ingame email, additional crafting enhancements, the lvl 10 Training, etc..  So there's even more work for them.  I work in a computer company and work with computer code everyday and have learned the following things:</DIV> <DIV>  </DIV>

[Gobbwin]

<DIV>I would love to see it fixed as well, don't get me wrong, but step back a sec and look at the big picture.  Please.  Does our 26 reactive heal work? Yes it does, does it work as intended? not a chance in hell, but it IS working.  Thats what the devs mainly care about.  There are tons of other things that DON"T work at all, that is what they are focused on.  This is a problem and it has been petitioned, bugged, and feedback has been provided.  Hell someone even parsed it, that is all we can do, nothing more.  We can [Removed for Content] and moan all we want, but that is only going to cause hate and discontent...just like it is now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are other things getting fixed faster?  Most definately, they've spent a lot of time tweaking crafting, but look at them, they aren't united together at all, BUT look back a week ago when merchants temporarily wouldn't buy back items.  They united together, reguardless of their differances or differances of opinion, they banded together and filled more than 50 pages of replys in under a day!  We don't have enough templars to do that, not even close, our longest topic (the 26 heal) spans multiple threads and are only a couple pages long.  Point being, we're a small crowd and as they say "appease the masses".  They will focus on what the majority of the players are saying as wrong, unless something is broken entirely.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Peruse through the other classes, they all have their complaints as well, there is a lot of things not working right in the game and they are dealing with them as best they can, but bugs can take a long time to fix, let alone find.  So large number of bugs + a handful of people addressing them = a while before "lower priority" issues are addressed.  Is it of extreme importance to us?  Hells yes, but as I said in the first paragraph, its not completely broken, nor are we the dominant class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also on top of all this, they are adding new content, the ingame email, additional crafting enhancements, the lvl 10 Training, etc..  So there's even more work for them.  I work in a computer company and work with computer code everyday and have learned the following things:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It never works right, there is always a bug.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even if it works properly in the lab, the average user will find the bug very quickly.  (remember the coders know what to do and when, hell they wrote the code, we on the other hand largely do not)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A simple fix is never easy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Identifying the bug is the easy part, figuring out what is causing it is the hard part.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Making a patch to fix the bug is the other easy part, the patch actually fixing the problem w/o messing something else up is the really hard part.  (yes thats why they have the test server, but to fully test something takes quite a long time (see paragraph  3).  Granted a lot of stuff is thrown out the door before it is fully working, that is largely our fault, we demand that problems be fixed immediately.  If the patch affects something else, if its a lessor problem than the one that it is fixing, then it is acceptable and the patch can be patched later.</DIV> <DIV><BR>Computer code is a very strange thing, it seems easy but it is not.  Different codes interact strangely with other codes, imagine putting a bunch of children in a small room unsupervised, not the greatest example, but sorta conveys the point that they won't always get along.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now back to my point, its a lot of work and take a while to get done.  Me mysteriously "coming along and calling for peace" was my efforts for these boards to not turn into the newbie boards part deu.  Pardon me for trying to cool tempers and encourage patience.  I'm irritated too, but all this bickering and wining in the forums will get us is the lable "the winiest class".  Which I believe someone above mentioned we already have.  Otherwise it accomplishes nothing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That and I don't know about the rest of you, but seeing the same posts over and over again is getting old, they really outta put a filter in place that prevents reposting of old topics and fix the search tool.  Now I wasn't vicious, I didn't flame anyone and if you actually, honestly step back a moment and think about what I have said, you might agree with me on somethings.  You might not like it, but hey I don't like it either, but that is how big buisness works...</DIV>