Should a Templar Fight?

[caspak]

<DIV>I know our weapons are weak, we definatly have to concentrate on our healing and debuffing, but how important is fighting?  How many think it makes a difference? Some healers don't fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have seen a few of my bonus damages really help in a melee fight.  I have what I consider a decent weapon now, compared to the branch.</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/item.vm?itemId=5362" target=_blank>http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/item.vm?itemId=5362</A></DIV> <DIV>not that huge a difference, but it looks better too.  </DIV> <DIV>I like to get in there and fight, but I never let it destract me from my healing job.  If it's a big bad boss, I sometimes stand back and just heal, as it seems all I can do to just keep that tank alive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Atanvar]

I'll get in and autoattack when possible... it's extra DPS which is always good. Just make sure you don't draw aggro away.

[FoxeyeVaeltaja]

I think that it is almost our responsibility to the group to fight when we aren't needed to heal. Nuking, of course, would require our power, and there is no reason to sit down, so the alternative is to stand there and do nothing. That said, if I'm not confident that I have control of the healing, I won't bother meleeing. I was a ranger in EQ-L, and my old instincts to ignore health bars as soon as I melee is dieing hard. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And if my system has decided that spell effects make it lag, I will generally just face a wall. Not the most exciting way to fight a battle, but it has been necessary at times.

[Mu]

<DIV>I only fight if im with 2 or 3 people or if im in a full group and run out of magic.  My dps isnt that great compared to others, im better off standing back and healing, that way if i draw arrgo its pretty obvious im being hit.</DIV>

[Gwynet]

<DIV>I fight as long as there is no enchanter in the group. Breaking mez because of auto attack kinda sucks. When I feel lazy I don't though lol.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our melee really won't make a difference, although the occasional 60+ procs I get are nice.</DIV>

[Danm]

I feel like my melee damage is significant over the course of a night. Its just more XP to be had. The only time I don't melee is when there are too many mobs around and I'll get barraged no matter where I stand in melee. In other words, in a smaller controlled pull, I will stand behind the mob and melee to avoid mob AE melee styles. If its a big pull like the EL access quest where there are mobs all over, I will just stand a good ways back to avoid mob AE melee.A side benefit of meleeing is that if you somehow do manage to get aggro, you are right by the tank, so he doesn't have to go running after the mob to taunt it.-Dan

[TxFel]

<DIV>Also, from time to time, and depending on the mob, I have acted as a starter tank for the group.  I don't know if it is the groups, or just the benift of heavy armor, but at level 20 my armor seems to be quite good compared to some fighters.</DIV>

[Celestian_]

<DIV>I tend to fight a lot since it doesn't keep me from healing and the extra damage over time does speed things up a tad.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only time I stop is if the battle gets really hairy and I need to really focus on healing or the memory leaks cause my machine to start getting video slag. When that happens I just face a wall and watch health bars.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Teriander]

Guys.. Listen.. Fight, and fight often. Im a level 23 Templar and I fight with my group everytime we're in combat. Malee attack mainly but sometimes I smite whenever our party is doing well and I have extra mana to waste. I have one of the best weapons a templar can have (for around my level) and Im not going to let it goto waste. Unfortunately I can't use it till level 24, i'll tell you what it is then.This is why you should fight and do it from the start:Fighting increases your offensive and defensive skills. Period. If you sit back and watch your group fight while you cast heals all day isn't going to make your offense or defense go up any higher. And since a Templar can wear heavy armor, it would be a waste if you're not going to use it. I have my offense and defense skills maxed out and Im almost good enough to be the tank. Besides, just because your malee hits are weak doesn't mean you're not helping the group get the kill faster. Trust me. You're going to want to use your weapon, and you're going to want to take a few hits. Because by the time you're level 40 you are REALLY going to wish you had built up your armor and assult skills because you WILL get attacked... like it or not.

[Gwynet]

<DIV>Meleeing in groups will not increase your defense. The best way of doing it it soloing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That being said, it's not easy to melee as a templar, it's hard to pay attention to heals + position, so if you don't think you can do it, don't.</DIV>

[rtoub]

<DIV>Soloing is definatly the way to go to increase defense but I have seen the rare defense update when in groups.  There is always that odd random hit you get by being that close.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Until I find a negitive to attacking I will keep doing it.  If you stay behind the mob the damage is pretty small any usually it is healed by the end of the battle.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only problem I have found is if the tank targets another mob close by before I stop auto attacking.  I find one of these keeps my memory sharp for a few days.</DIV>

[Teriander]

<blockquote><hr>Gwynet wrote:<DIV>Meleeing in groups will not increase your defense. The best way of doing it it soloing.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>That being said, it's not easy to melee as a templar, it's hard to pay attention to heals + position, so if you don't think you can do it, don't.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Two things:1) Meleeing in groups will not increase your defense is a silly thing to say. Because if you're close enough for the creature to hit you, then you're close enough to hit it back. Unless you plan on taking hits without hitting back.2) It's really not that hard to pay attention to heals and melee at the sametime. Just walk up to the creature, engage auto attack, and select your tank. Wala! You're now attacking enemy and healing friends at the sametime. What's so hard about that?<p>Message Edited by Teriander on <span class=date_text>12-08-2004</span> <span class=time_text>12:57 PM</span>

[Curati]

<DIV>that and my Erudite make a really cool war face when he is meleeing! :smileymad:</DIV>

[Gwynet]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Teriander wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Two things:<BR>1) Meleeing in groups will not increase your defense is a silly thing to say. Because if you're close enough for the creature to hit you, then you're close enough to hit it back. Unless you plan on taking hits without hitting back.<BR><BR>2) It's really not that hard to pay attention to heals and melee at the sametime. Just walk up to the creature, engage auto attack, and select your tank. Wala! You're now attacking enemy and healing friends at the sametime. What's so hard about that? <P>Message Edited by Teriander on <SPAN class=date_text>12-08-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:57 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>1) Huh I don't get your point. Meleeing in groups, you will not get hit. That's the tank's job. Unless you are facing the mob, but in this case you would be better off not meleeing at all, because avoiding ripostes is the key. In groups, I plan on hitting but not taking hits. Or I would be a tank.</P> <P>2) First, position. You need to be behind the mob so you're not getting riposted. Then, you need to be careful not to aggro adds by mistake when meleeing. Second, auto attack. Great on one mob, can be a problem when there is more than one though. Don't forget that your main job is to heal, and that if you heal someone, you will attack whatever mob he has on target. If you heal an enchanter that is mezzing a mob, with auto attack on you will break the mez. So you have to be fast and stop attacking before healing. If you're too slow, you may not be able to heal in time (even worse if you break mez). Then, if you are just attacking something by clicking on the tank, same deal. If he switches targets just to taunt but you have attack on, you will break the mez. That's why most of my groups ask people to use an assist key and not to use implied targetting.</P> <P>So again, if you think that meleeing while healing is very easy and you don't take all this into consideration, you shouldn't melee at all. <BR></P>

[Shaman]

<BR> <DIV>If you can, do it, if you can't don't... It does add dps but if it's at the cost of some deaths, then it's not worth it. And i usually don't melee with a mezzer in teh group... because I'm a newb and break mezzes when I heal them...</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV>Delornden</FONT></DIV> <DIV>24 Templar of Black Burrow</DIV><p>Message Edited by Shaman_K on <span class=date_text>12-08-2004</span> <span class=time_text>02:34 PM</span>

[Gwynet]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shaman_K wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV>If you can, do it, if you can't don't... I does at dps but if it'sat the cost of some deaths, then it's not worth it. An i usually don't melee with a mezzer in teh group... because I'm a newb and break mezzes when I heal them...</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV>Delornden</FONT></DIV> <DIV>24 Templar of Black Burrow</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Same, I never melee with a mezzer in group. Or when I need to heal a lot and can't really pay attention to my position. Our melee dps just isn't worth wasting mana healing ourselves or deaths.

[Teriander]

<blockquote><hr>Gwynet wrote:<P>1) Huh I don't get your point. Meleeing in groups, you will not get hit. That's the tank's job. Unless you are facing the mob, but in this case you would be better off not meleeing at all, because avoiding ripostes is the key. In groups, I plan on hitting but not taking hits. Or I would be a tank.</P><P>2) First, position. You need to be behind the mob so you're not getting riposted. Then, you need to be careful not to aggro adds by mistake when meleeing. Second, auto attack. Great on one mob, can be a problem when there is more than one though. Don't forget that your main job is to heal, and that if you heal someone, you will attack whatever mob he has on target. If you heal an enchanter that is mezzing a mob, with auto attack on you will break the mez. So you have to be fast and stop attacking before healing. If you're too slow, you may not be able to heal in time (even worse if you break mez). Then, if you are just attacking something by clicking on the tank, same deal. If he switches targets just to taunt but you have attack on, you will break the mez. That's why most of my groups ask people to use an assist key and not to use implied targetting.</P><P>So again, if you think that meleeing while healing is very easy and you don't take all this into consideration, you shouldn't melee at all. <BR></P><hr></blockquote>Meleeing is using your blunt weapons correct? Why sit there taking hits if you're not going to hit back? And why have a character that can wear heavy armor if you're just going to try to avoid meleeing combat, because you're afraid to take a hit?If your tank already has a creature Pulled, and is already attacking it. Then its time for everyone to fight it, mezed or not. If other creatures are mezed and are next in line for attack, then your tank shouldn't select it unless he's ready to attack it. Once he selects it, and it is close enough to attack. Do it. No need to stand around when theirs killing to be done. Im sorry man, I just don't think there is a need to be passive when you have a character that can not only take a hit, but also heal himself and others at the sametime. Especially if he has a good weapon. Nothing is worse in the game then a healer who thinks the only thing he can do is heal.

[Gwynet]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Teriander wrote:<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Meleeing is using your blunt weapons correct? Why sit there taking hits if you're not going to hit back? And why have a character that can wear heavy armor if you're just going to try to avoid meleeing combat, because you're afraid to take a hit?<BR><BR>If your tank already has a creature Pulled, and is already attacking it. Then its time for everyone to fight it, mezed or not. If other creatures are mezed and are next in line for attack, then your tank shouldn't select it unless he's ready to attack it. Once he selects it, and it is close enough to attack. Do it. No need to stand around when theirs killing to be done. Im sorry man, I just don't think there is a need to be passive when you have a character that can not only take a hit, but also heal himself and others at the sametime. Especially if he has a good weapon. Nothing is worse in the game then a healer who thinks the only thing he can do is heal.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Ok, again, I rarely get hit in groups, I'm not a tank, it's the tank who is getting hit not me. If I get hit, it's often that I messed up somewhere (mostly taking barrage damage because I wasn't in the right place).  I don't sit there taking hits in groups, the tank does it. If I start getting hit, then I need to heal myself, and it's wasted power because the tank is supposed to take the hits, because he takes them better than me. So I avoid being hit. <DIV>Just because you can take a few hits with your heavy armor doesn't mean that you should. It's the tank's job. A healer getting aggro all the time is a bad healer.</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of course when I solo I do melee, but that's not the point of this thread...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I totally disagree as well that I should attack the mezzed mobs as soon as the tank targets them. This is another bad point for implied targetting, because if you attack something using it, your attack won't be turned off when you stop attacking, and you will attack the tank's target right away as soon as he switches.. so you will break mez before the tank has time to taunt it. Which is bad. And don't forget that the enchanter might need a heal as well, then if you are attacking, again, you will break mez.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I disagree as well about the tank not changing targets during the fight. If an add resists mez and is beating on the enchanter, it's his job to taunt it off him. If you are attacking with him on target when it happens, once again, if the enchanter manages to land mez at the same time, you will break the mez right away. I know, one of my group wiped because of it (wasn't me attacking though <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>'Nothing is worse in the game then a healer who thinks the only thing he can do is heal'  Yeah, I agree. There is plenty to be done if you are not healing, with all our nukes and debuffs. Meleeing too, but only if done smartly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[duk4]

<DIV>I fight everyfight regardless.  I have never had a problem healing the tank while swinging my weapon.  As for getting agro, that's not a problem either, long as i let the tank go in first and get a couple hits I'm good to go.  Of couse I have BoV adept 3 wich has reduced the amount of heals I have to cast considerably.  </DIV>

[IlluvatorBrightst]

Meleeing is fun, and the Blessed Weapon procs rule :p

[Teriander]

<blockquote><hr>duk420 wrote:<DIV>I fight everyfight regardless. I have never had a problem healing the tank while swinging my weapon. As for getting agro, that's not a problem either, long as i let the tank go in first and get a couple hits I'm good to go. Of couse I have BoV adept 3 wich has reduced the amount of heals I have to cast considerably. </DIV><hr></blockquote>It's good to see other Templars out there aren't afraid to fight! Now we just need to convince Gwynet it's not so bad. He wont listen to me.<p>Message Edited by Teriander on <span class=date_text>12-08-2004</span> <span class=time_text>02:50 PM</span>

[Gwynet]

<DIV>Gwynet = she</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And I'm all for meleeing, as long as you know what you're doing. It just seems it's not the case of everyone.</DIV>

[rtoub]

<DIV>Hmm, I never though about breaking mez, that is a really good point.  But then there don't seem to be many mezzers around yet.  I grouped with one for a while and breeze really rocks.  I was able to nuke to my hearts content and power wasn't much of a problem most of the time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Targeting the tank is a must for me and the priority.  Seems like if the mez breaks for some reason and the tank targets the mob the mezzer should just wait a bit for control before mezzing again.  Then the tank is back on the main target.  That way my beating with a stick will not mess things up. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Does taunt not break mez?   I had no idea that tanks were targeting mezed mobs to increase agro.  I also though the agro would be highest on the mezzer so pretty much that is where the mob goes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will have to remember to stop attacking when healing the mezzer.  Seems that most times when a mezzer is taking damage they have the unmezzed mob targeted so maybe it isn't much of a problem.</DIV>

[FoxeyeVaeltaja]

<blockquote><hr>Teriander wrote:<blockquote><hr>duk420 wrote:<DIV>I fight everyfight regardless. I have never had a problem healing the tank while swinging my weapon. As for getting agro, that's not a problem either, long as i let the tank go in first and get a couple hits I'm good to go. Of couse I have BoV adept 3 wich has reduced the amount of heals I have to cast considerably. </DIV><hr></blockquote>It's good to see other Templars out there aren't afraid to fight! Now we just need to convince Gwynet it's not so bad. He wont listen to me.<p>Message Edited by Teriander on <span class=date_text>12-08-2004</span> <span class=time_text>02:50 PM</span><hr></blockquote>I actually suspect you aren't understanding her posts, because as far as I'm reading, she enjoys melee just fine. She just likes to have some common sense about when to do it and not to do it. Just like there are times a healer shouldn't heal.

[FoxeyeVaeltaja]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Teriander wrote:'Nothing is worse in the game then a healer who thinks the only thing he can do is heal' </DIV><hr></blockquote>Actually, I disagree. ^_^ There are plenty of things worse than a healer who thinks they can only heal. Like a healer that doesn't heal. Or a scout that doesn't melee. Yes, I'm being cheeky. Dramatic statements like that just bring out the snark in me. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Curati]

<DIV>I like to specialize in the healing department but using dbuffs and and nuking is part of the healing if you think about it...the quiker the mob dies the less it is beating on my groups tank the less I have to heal him/her</DIV>

[Ricke]

<DIV>That's a good point about implied targetting of the mezzer, never thought of that as I've yet to group with a mezzer. As I'm still only a Cleric I have a question with regards to self heals in group combat situations. When do you actually heal yourself? So far the only time I actually heal myself is if I am taking a heap of damage or I get below 1/3 health. Since we can wear Heavy armour it was my hope that the damage we take is relatively small to allow us to survive fights without having the need to heal ourselves. Does this usually pan out this way or when you reach higher levels you end up taking so much damage anyway that heavy armour is practically negligable?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One more question, do you guys cast our Combat Res or do you always wait until the fights over?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Gwynet]

<DIV>I heal myself when I get below 50%. Doesn't happen much though, mostly when I solo and get an add.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For the combat rez, it's tricky... I usually rez during the fight and heal just afterwards, happened a few times that we evacced just after I rezzed the tank, which is really nice. I have yet to have someone just die again after being rezzed.</DIV>

[caspak]

<DIV><EM><FONT size=3> heal myself when I get below 50%. Doesn't happen much though, mostly when I solo and get an add.</FONT></EM> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT size=3>For the combat rez, it's tricky... I usually rez during the fight and heal just afterwards, happened a few times that we evacced just after I rezzed the tank, which is really nice. I have yet to have someone just die again after being rezzed.</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>Ack, i've had it happen, its not pretty.  </FONT></DIV></DIV>

[Ond]

Fight or not? If the situation allows it, by all means, it does help some. During a fight I might get 15 swings in doing about 20 average damage, this while still keeping the important damage dealers alive, hence I helped shorten the fight, increasing the groups survivability. Sometimes the fight doesn't allow it, narrow halls like those found in the Stormhold (Qeynos based place), can sometimes place the fight so it's not possible to get on the side or behind the opponents.In such case I feel it's better to just stand back, rather than tying to maneuver around, or standing in front potentially getting whacked by some AoE mob attack. However only against weak mobs should the fighting begin before they're debuffed (you can usually get a swing in between spell castings), otherwise it's debuff, make sure the tank has control and enough life, move in swinging.Look at us, holy men and women in (hopefully) big shining armor, apparently some mobs like Gnolls and Orcs have decided to sway or even disband our gods. Did you try talking sense with them? For my part, gnolls apparently refuse to understand my common toung, such an action can not be allowed, so I like to show them my thoughts on the issue with a club to the forehead (well, side- or backhead, but who's counting <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).<p>Message Edited by Ondal on <span class=date_text>12-09-2004</span> <span class=time_text>02:10 AM</span>

[Zabumt]

<DIV>Hehe well.. I think of it like this, if I'm in a dungeon, I want my group mates CLOSE.   Very close.  To avoid adds.  So if I'm close to the encounter, I might as well step behind the mob and throw in a few swings with my morning star.  No, it's not signifigant damage by any means when compared to the melee dps a mage/rogue/fighter can throw out but it's at least throwing something in while I'm debuffing and healing.  But do what you're comfortable with.  Your first priority in a fight is keeping everyone healthy.  Second, debuff.  After that, do what you want.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It IS important to watch implied targetting agro on a mob that hasn't been woken up yet.  But, melee dpsers have to watch for this too.  If they're assisting.  If you want to avoid this, you can use implied targetting by targetting the mob instead of the tank and use /assist.  Your heals will pass through to the target of the mob but you'll still keep swinging.  Which makes me think implied targetting through the tank isn't very useful beyond the low end game where managing adds isn't that big of a deal.  Might as well just create a /assist hotkey like the old days and keep the mob targetted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thoughts?</DIV><p>Message Edited by Zabumtik on <span class=date_text>12-09-2004</span> <span class=time_text>02:25 AM</span>

[ThikNogg]

<DIV>My 2cp:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mellee if I can. Mostly though, I am more concerned with keeping people alive and debuffing. The 100hps I can take off the mob with my tree branch of doom is next to nothing. Really, if the group NEEDS that little extra damage we are in trouble to begin with.</DIV>

[Ogrelicio]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Musa wrote:<BR> <DIV>I only fight if im with 2 or 3 people or if im in a full group and run out of magic.  My dps isnt that great compared to others, im better off standing back and healing, that way if i draw arrgo its pretty obvious im being hit.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I follow Musa's style.  I keep my skills up by soloing, or drawing unintentional aggro.</FONT></DIV>

[Ogrelicio]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ThikNoggen wrote:<BR> <DIV>My 2cp:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mellee if I can. Mostly though, I am more concerned with keeping people alive and debuffing. The 100hps I can take off the mob with my tree branch of doom is next to nothing. Really, if the group NEEDS that little extra damage we are in trouble to begin with.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Seriously.  That's the truth.  If you're depending on my 100 points of damage, we're already in trouble.  I'll continue to melee, when everything's under control, or it's a green mob, etc.

[Cassusdy]

<DIV>why not melee? Its essentially a DoT. Personally I do about 1000 hp in dmg through melee through each fight while healing. If you don't melee you are being lazy IMO.</DIV>

[Arilyn]

<P>I agree with everything Gwynet has said on this issue. I hate when the 2nd healer gets hit and I have to end up wasting my mana to heal them.</P> <P>If you want to raise your defense, go solo or fight a bunch of grays.</P> <P>________________<BR>Arilynne<BR>27 High Elf Templar<BR>Butcherblock</P>

[MilkToa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cassusdyrr wrote:<BR> <DIV>why not melee? Its essentially a DoT. Personally I do about 1000 hp in dmg through melee through each fight while healing. If you don't melee you are being lazy IMO.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Lol,  you do that much damage in a week?</P> <P> </P>

[Ar-Cunin]

<DIV>I guess it depends on the situation. Today in Crypt of Betrayal my group was 4 healers and two tanks - then everybody meleed to try and compensate for the abysmal dps :smileytongue: (in CoB you have to take whomever you can get - talk about a low population zone)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In general - If the mob(s) use AoE I don't melee. My dps simply doesn't justify the extra healing. If I'm on unknown ground I prefer to stand back as well - simply to get a better overview of the combat (mob switching target, adds, etc.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In safe combats (grinding) I get in there and whack the enemy. I just wish I didn't have that ugly wooden club as a templar weapon.</DIV>

[IlluvatorBrightst]

If anyone died in that group, you fail at life :p

[Ar-Cunin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IlluvatorBrightstar wrote:<BR>If anyone died in that group, you fail at life :p<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>If that was for me - I have failed at life :smileysad:</P> <P>The highest lvl was a 28 templar doing writs, so nearly everything conned grey. (at this time one tank had been kicked out for ninja-afk and replaced with a warlock). Going throgh the dungeon we stopped at an alcove with a (to me at 22) red conned named. But before we could set up and pre-buff somebody drew aggro (perhaps proximity aggro) - and the lvl 21 berzerker died before any heals could land on him. I didn't even find out exactly how many enemies there was. I did however find out that the named definately was a caster - shortly before I bit the dust as well. </P> <P>Just goes to show. If you aren't careful in dungeons, you die. But at least I managed to complete AQ4 :smileyhappy:</P>

[Hoo]

<blockquote><hr>Cassusdyrr wrote:<DIV>why not melee? Its essentially a DoT. Personally I do about 1000 hp in dmg through melee through each fight while healing. If you don't melee you are being lazy IMO.</DIV><hr></blockquote>I only melee if it is an easier situation (no risks). I have NEVER had any group members get mad at me for it. I like concentrating all my attention for group members and mobs statistics (group health, if the mob is still debuffed, add lookout, etc.). The group members prefer that too. Most tanks I have grouped with liked the fact that I stand back a bit in front of them in case I pull agro. It makes it easier for them to see if they need to peel the mob off of me. As long as I have power and keep everyone alive, there is no laziness implied. The times I do melee, group members joke around if I get the killing hit. They laugh how a healer took the tanks mob) Laziness has nothing to do with it. It is about the right actions for the right situation. Melee if it is no threat to group success, stand back and concentrate on your group if the situation seems like there might be a possible bad outcome. Either way, the group has its pieces for success and our piece of the puzzle is healing.... If we don't melee are we really lazy? I don't hink so and I'm sure the majority of the community feel the same way.

[Vylo]

<DIV>i would tend to agree with Gwynet  on this one...  CAN a templar/priest melee? absolutely!  should they all the time? no!  if you want to melee, be a melee class <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  having played a melee most of my life in eq1 (pally) i know what is needed from a healer...  do they need you to keep them alive? yes.  do they need your 20point melee hits? not really.  does it help? yes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its all on a case by case basis IMHO...  just use your head and remember what you are... a healer first.  i think THE most successful groups are that way because everyone knows their role and they play that role well...  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>just my 2cp <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Mat]

<DIV>In my case, I will fight to deal extra damage or break cast of the mob if </DIV> <DIV>1) The mob does not have a painful AOE that even hits players on his back.</DIV> <DIV>2) Only 1 tank in grp without any DPS.</DIV> <DIV>3) I haven't gain much hate</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It really depends on the situation so don't force yourself to only fight or do not fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Tarqui]

HeheSomething tells me we will be arguing this for a looong time<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />For me its all subjective and certainly situational.Your prime job is healing... not nuking not meleeing.Yes I'll nuke if I'm in a easy situation.But nukes for me are mostly fer solo'inIf your in a tight team tho I'll nuke off the wheel at times for really nice dmg, but even that I will not complete a wheel move if healin takes precedence.But once again on many occasions the mana I save by not nuking has helped with adds. We must be Mana stingy. Plus I'm a provisioner nothing but the best food and drink when my friends lives are in me hands!!!!!Group fighting does little to nuttin fer me defense parry thats solo. And best to solo right after you ding.When your the only healer in a group I'd be very careful meleeing bigger mobs like those trees in Zek(I'm only 34<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.AOE Nukes and such can be tight<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And even the best geared out tank can take a sudden life drop that you better be dam ready to minister too!! Lag can at times be a big factor. Especially after playing on a 4 hour heritage run or some such.But all this is what makes Templar a good class. No 2 players need to play alike...Aside from the lame [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] "nofun" spells and some buggy yang I dig me class. Good stuff good read kinda cool to see our different styles and such...

[AngeliaofL]

<DIV><FONT color=#330000><FONT color=#ffffff>I completely agree, why would you not melee.  </FONT></DIV></FONT>

[Tirador]

<DIV>Not only do I fight, I nuke as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is no reason not to fight. EQ1 almost required that you did not fight as sitting during a fight increased your mana regeneration, this is not the case in EQ2 any longer and that is good. Not fighting is just a waste of DPS in my opinion. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would not suggest casters fight though, one barrage or riposte can cost a lot of mana from the healer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nuking</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have a tank I group with all the time. We have our HOs down to a science. We can constantly string HOs together all night long. I tend to nuke a lot when we are duoing and when we are in larger groups. It has always been my philosophy the best healing is the damage that is not taken. If you are in a low dps group, i.e. lots of tanks, no thieves or finger wigglers, then you have to use HOs to their best.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I find so many people that do  not understand what they are, or how they work. If you really get into these, understand the order of execution then these are a lot of fun, and they can reduce your fighting time by one-half. This really does equate to saved mana as well. The longer your tank stands there taking damage, the more healing you are going to have to do, the cycle goes down from there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To play your templar to the utmost is to practice good power control. Know your limits, and be straight forward with casters who pull agro. The only time I have ever been in groups that die is when a caster pulls agro and then starts running around like a lunatic. The time I have to spend chasing down the caster and healing him, is time and power wasted that could have gone to the fight itself. Anymore, I just let the casters die. They will learn fast enough to not pull agro.</DIV>

[Jolcon Zand]

<DIV>This whole post makes me want to get naked and kill something!</DIV>

[dancemice]

<DIV>This might be asking for it.</DIV> <DIV>But i fight. Nuke, Ho and everything else.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Against solo mobs i'm great. Group mobs. I need a shield. A big shield.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At my level i can usually do about 400-500 points of damage every 5 seconds. While it's not much compared to say  mage, or even a scout - that little bit o blast can often help shorten a fight. Granted I don't nuke my way out of mana and let someone die. That would be terrible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as melee goes - Well. I dread melee. When i'm grinding quests out on grey mobs - specially grey group mobs, I'll start attacking and go read the boards - Takes about 5 minutes to melee a mob down. </DIV> <DIV>I hit for - Yippie- usually about 15 points a hit. My high has been 50 points (~wow~) and my low has been about 7.</DIV> <DIV>When i'm doing 7 points on a grey mob, It's time to start thinking about finding something else to fight. Something a little more vunrable to blunt items.</DIV> <DIV>-B-</DIV>

[Mat]

Depends, if I'm fighting something that can take me out in a couple hits I will stay as far away as I can. If I happen to draw aggro that extra half second it takes to get to me is better then the 5 dmg I do with my club. Some mobs also have area effects and I generally stay away from those. I never nuke, unless there is more then one healer in the group. You never know when you might get adds or something.

[dzenith]

<DIV>I always melee.  Mark of Princes heals both mine and my group's manastone damage for very little power.  </DIV>

[kenji]

<DIV>i dun melee, i dun want to suffer from mob's barrage...taking 1k dmg for barrage getting close to mob is just stupid for me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>even with Mark line, i will just spend some lvl 3 Smite HO to get it proc (yes it does)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>melee 50 dmg vs 1000+ barrage...doesnt worth the risk for me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[LdyVesta]

<blockquote><hr>kenjiso wrote:<DIV>i dun melee, i dun want to suffer from mob's barrage...taking 1k dmg for barrage getting close to mob is just stupid for me.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>even with Mark line, i will just spend some lvl 3 Smite HO to get it proc (yes it does)</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>melee 50 dmg vs 1000+ barrage...doesnt worth the risk for me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><hr></blockquote>If you run around to the back with the scouts, you won't be hit by barrage.

[kenji]

<DIV>i got barraged behind the scout that already piercing the mob's back <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Orodru]

<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">When you get to upper 40s in levels, you can rely on Mark of Kings and on Glory of Combat.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Cast GoC between fights on everyone who can swing a stick - between fight mana regen will cover the power cost so it's basically free. MoK is a great additional healing debuff as well.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">There are plenty of fights now that I never cast a heal. This is with a group fighting level 48-50 ^^ group mobs. GoC fires off fairly often with everyone swatting the mob and at app4 provides a 308 group heal every time it fires. MoK heals only around 110 every time it fires at app4, but during a fight I will see that land 4 or 5 times on the MT as well. That healing is enough to keep everyone topped off and cover manastone usage as well.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Bout the only time I cast heals is with adds or with big group pulls.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">That leaves me free to melee as much as I want (screaming mace I do around 35-50 damage per hit - still nothing compared to a real melee class, but I add 500 or so danage per fight and a decent chance to proc those group heals, and when my mace procs I get a STR and Power buff as well).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">It also leaves me free to nuke. When the HO wheel comes my way, I fire it off. When there are no HOs going, I quickly put in one of my own (Divine Judgement requires two nukes and gives about 700-800 HP total damage in just 8 seconds or so).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">And since I'm hardly ever casting any actual healing spells, my power bar is almost always full, so nuking is not even wasting crucial power.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Melee, an HO, I'm good for 1200 or so extra damage. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">I'm still the small fish in the big damage pond, but it helps drop the mobs that much faster so we can pull faster and get more exp/loot faster.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">And I'm never, ever the one who runs out of power and asks for the med-break (unless nasty pulls/adds where I don't melee or nuke).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Can't wait to get adept3 on MoK and GoC - great as they are they have not been my first choices so far - heals/buffs/debuffs outrank those in priority for me.</FONT></DIV>