I give up, this is too messed up

[Gwynet]

<DIV>When I got Supplicant's Prayer at 26, it was healing for about 25 points less than the level 12 spell, Bestowal of Vitae. Sure, I only had the app2 while I had the app3 of BoV, but it was still unbelievable, when there are 14 levels between both, that the upgrade would get so sucky in comparison.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I kept levelling, thinking it was going to go better, because everyone was telling me how it's normal, I just got the spell, it was going to get better in time. How silly was I. At 30, it was finally healing for as much as BoV, 102, but was still consuming 23 more power per cast (78 against the 55 of BoV). Tonight, I just got 31, and it heals for 106, but costs 81 power now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't give a **mods 4 teh win!!1!** whether it doesn't heal much just because I only have the app2 spell for it. There is NO reason why the app2 version of a 26 spell should be way less efficient than the app3 version of a level 12 spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have had a thread going in the spell and abilities forum for over a week now, ever since I got 26, and it has been totally ignored by the devs. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Right now, templars are totally [Removed for Content] healers, and the devs just don't care.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To make things worse, I got my new nuke tonight, the update to smite, and it hits for about 40% less than the spell I was using (admonishing smite, adept 1). Again, I don't care if it's app1 or adept 1, the bottom line is, it should be really exciting to get new spells, and it isn't, our old ones are always much better than the new ones. The spell and abilities design is just totally broken.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think I'm just too upset and frustrated right now, I'm not even sure I'm not just going to cancel my account because there is just no reason to level if we just get less and less efficient.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[khrokh]

I have the same problem with supplicant prayer.I had an adept3 of BoV which happens to have the same mana cost than the app1 of SP. My BoV was 128 when my SP was 73. I know it increases by about 5 each rank so i figured it wasnt worth even trying to upgrade it to app3, not even sure an adept3 would even be worth it.So in the end i will use BoV until i get SP's upgrade if it s not gimped. The good side of it is it makes the investment in an adept3 for BoV really valuable.Until now at 28 most of the upgrades i had were not worth using it even in app3 because i had apdepts of the lower level version (which can be bought for less than the app3 spells...), so basically getting new spells lost a lot of interrest in the current state (and some spells seem to not exist in adept 1 at all, is it intended?).

[IKilled007]

You're so right man, I've actually stopped attacking with my different Smite spells, even if they are App3 and Adept1, Because none of them are any better then my very first Smite spell (damage/power cost). Now I Just heal people and swing with my mace. No sense on wasting around 80 mana just to do about 50 damage points.

[Ke]

<DIV>From what I recall, a app 2 is 25% better than an app 1, app 3 is 50% better than an app 1. Hence upgrading your SP to app 3 should increase heal per tick to about 127 which is significantly better than your App 3 BoV at 102. Plus it will still get better every level for a while.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mana efficiency is something completely different. It may not be mana efficient to use the higher level spell, but you do get more healing with it, hence the choice is yours at the point of casting which one makes more sense. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I havnt got that high yet, hence I havnt a clue what the deal is in real usage. However, SP is a bigger heal than BoV. It may not be big enough for your tanks - but thats a different problem. We all seem to assume that if its a tank, we should be able to keep it alive. However, a tank with poor armour is just as bad as a Templar who hasnt upgraded any spells from App 1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Donte]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IKilled007 wrote:<BR>You're so right man, I've actually stopped attacking with my different Smite spells, even if they are App3 and Adept1, Because none of them are any better then my very first Smite spell (damage/power cost). Now I Just heal people and swing with my mace. No sense on wasting around 80 mana just to do about 50 damage points.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I hit for 150 ish ave(100+50) with combative faith. Darn good spell if ya ask me.  Too bad is won't solo HO. </DIV>

[Lifewast]

Hmm, I think we just need to get adept3s, I'm amazed your getting 102 with bov at lvl 31.I get 134 with bov(adept3) at lvl 28 , and 90 with SP (at app2)Not only that, but both BOV and SP , both cost me the same 62 power.....I seriously recommend, you buy a silver or coral for like 2 gold, and get an adept3 BOV made , then use that mainly untill some lvl 26 sages start churning out app3 and adept3 SPs.Your BOV strength is vital in determining whether we are "[Removed for Content]" or not, for example if the tanks taking 125ish damage per hit, your going to be down 100 hp on him per BOV, while with an adept3 , you would be plus 40 hp on him....over the course of a mob and several BOVs this has a big impact.In the meantime, you can still use SP for harder fights, just chain it with BOV since they both stack , but use BOV first and foremost......(If someone finds out where adept1 SP drops, that would help a lot in meantime also)

[Gwynet]

<DIV>LOL I am not going to buy an adept 3 spell of a level 12 spell at 31 when I got the upgrade 5 levels ago. I'm not going to make do with this mess up system, I just want it fixed. I WANT to be excited when I level, not to tell myself that it's just another crappy upgrade that won't be worth it in another 5 levels, there is no point.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And again, they do NOT stack. They will heal one after the other and NOT at the same time, and half the time by the time BoV is down I can just recast it anyway and it's just way more efficient.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And yes, I DO care whether it's efficient or not. I'm not going to use a spell that only heals for 10 more when it costs 50% more power to cost, sorry. It needs to be proportional.</DIV>

[Steelbl]

<DIV>LOL. Ah this kills me. If you look at todays update notes, they fixed our spell it seems. Sort of.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Actually they did nothing to SP. They just apparently nerfed the Inquisitors heals.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EVERYONE DUCK!! ITS THE NERF BAT!!!</DIV>

[Fugaci]

The problem stems from BOV app1 and SP app1 not being that much different. BOV app1 for me at 20 is doing 64 per hit, at 26 sp is going to let me do 74? That stinks! Even if both were adept3, SP wouldn't be that much different than BOV, so BOV adept 3 seems to max out about 200 percent above app1 for 128, that means SP would be 148. Again stop the presses. I don't think a level 26 app1 spell should ever be inferior to an adept 3 version of its level 12 counterpart. But lets say SP was 100 at app1, still inferior to bov adept3, but at adept3 for SP should be around 200 instead of 128. That is at least a significant improvement.This is a no brainer, it is broken. Badly broken.<p>Message Edited by Fugacity on <span class=date_text>12-02-2004</span> <span class=time_text>02:41 PM</span>

[Fugaci]

That is classic.I wasn't in beta, but I would imagine that something like this never came up because BOV and SP use to stack. It isn't horrible if BOV and SP stack, because you are getting a nice improvement. Take the stacking away and its crud, but now the complaining is too late. Hopefully this is just a quick reaction to make Templars and Inquisitors equal while they take a careful(hopefully swift as well) look at the balancing of the reactive heal line.The side benefit is now all the clerics will be complaining.

[MilkToa]

<DIV>Yes it sucks but hang in there. I noticed in today's patch that SOE tweaked some Inquisitor spells, maybe they'll do the same for Templars soon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Celestian_]

<DIV>I am definately disappointed in the healing power of the templar. Most groups want 2 healers instead of just 1. That should say something.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was in a group last night and got so sick of casting heal, I wish we'd get something like a useful reactive heal (im 26) or a complete heal. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Groups shouldn't need 2 healers to adventure.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing "good" I noticed is that combative faith seems to be a "dot" and as adept1 seems to do over 300 points of damage total.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Of course I'd rather have better heals but it gives us something else to do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Kyliegi]

<DIV>I <SPAN>wholeheartedly </SPAN><SPAN></SPAN>agree with you, Gwynet.  We should have something to look forward to each level.. all the other classes do.  Now I'm just get a new spell and think, eh, still doesn't beat my low level spell. </DIV>

[illum.]

No spirit steeds, the only thing a Templar does is heal and it is crap.It's like the slope of healing efficiency is flat, it doesnt get better but the monster darn sure hit harder.They need to make the healing keep up with the damagedealing.When a **mods 4 teh win!!1!** centaur can hit for 300 damage, I'd like to heal at least close to that without having to cast for a day and still get low heal.Parties NEEDING 2 healers in Thundering steppes is a pretty objective view on the situation.Being a cleric was fun, being a templar means getting a splintered toothpick, no horse and noobpower healing.Think I'll start working on my sorcerer again =(

[Shadowsda]

<DIV>I love playing  a Gimplar! I have inferior heals, inferior nukes, and less versatility than other priests... What more could we ask for? We get plate but they get more HP to counteract it. I guess our HP buffs are a little better though.</DIV>

[Malifest]

<DIV>I haven't yet become a Templar, lvl 19 cleric.  I haven't been gimped but I can see the lack of healing, definately when a druid is in the group.  They have a very nice regen spell compared to my BOV and compared to the mana each takes.  The thing is, there is a HUGE difference between AP2 and Adept 1.  I think it is seriously lame that you get a new gimped spell and have to upgrade it to a decent level to begin using it.  It sucks.  Everyone just needs to get into the understanding that the AP level of spells are the beginings of the spell, and are just that.. the begining.. you gain access to the spell but have not yet learned how to use it fully.  Thus why it is called AP2.  Heals get a lot better, when you get ADEPT 1.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also play a Summoner and I had AP2 pet and AP2 pet buff and he got his *** handed to him.  I got Adept 1 pet and Adept 1 pet buff and he is completely different.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also remember, balance is key.  In this game we now have HO's to use.  Part of the balance team would have to believe a group of professionals to use them at every good opportunity, if not constantly.  Some of the HO's is a group heal, group regen, and group mana.  Those have to balanced into the game.  When I command a group I tell them how to use the HO and when and we do very well.  We are constantly at or near full HP when I do back to back HO's that have group benefits.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do believe there is a problem with the amount of healing we do at lower level of spells.  I am just not sure how much without more testing.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The point I want to make is... Learn how to use HO's to your benefit, espessially when pulling groups of mobs.  And save your money and buy Adept level spells ASAP.  It makes a big difference!</DIV>

[blargh]

<DIV>Delete your toons and make something else.</DIV>

[FLA]

<DIV>That last post was  very helpful. A-hole.</DIV>

[Gwynet]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MilkToast wrote:<BR> <DIV>Yes it sucks but hang in there. I noticed in today's patch that SOE tweaked some Inquisitor spells, maybe they'll do the same for Templars soon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Unfortunately, it seems they nerfed the inquisitor spell to be in line with our broken spell instead.

[blargh]

<DIV>It wasn't meant to be helpful.  Just being truthful.  If you find it too depressing and frustrating over a game, then delete your toon and make something else.  It'll save you the frustrations from the nerf stick and from hating sony and from blah blah blah.  /bug everything instead of /**mods 4 teh win!!1!** about everything.  I know people are trying to vent, but it's just silly.  Go make a new toon, play something else, hang out with your girlfriend/boyfriend, do whatever else you want to do, don't play your toon or your character until you're happy that SOE makes a game that you want to play. </DIV>

[MilkToa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gwynet wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MilkToast wrote:<BR> <DIV>Yes it sucks but hang in there. I noticed in today's patch that SOE tweaked some Inquisitor spells, maybe they'll do the same for Templars soon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Unfortunately, it seems they nerfed the inquisitor spell to be in line with our broken spell instead.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Arghh, so much for optimism :smileysad:

[Gwynet]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> blarghy2 wrote:<BR> <DIV>It wasn't meant to be helpful.  Just being truthful.  If you find it too depressing and frustrating over a game, then delete your toon and make something else.  It'll save you the frustrations from the nerf stick and from hating sony and from blah blah blah.  /bug everything instead of /**mods 4 teh win!!1!** about everything.  I know people are trying to vent, but it's just silly.  Go make a new toon, play something else, hang out with your girlfriend/boyfriend, do whatever else you want to do, don't play your toon or your character until you're happy that SOE makes a game that you want to play. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> I agree with you. And yeah, I quit EQlive for the reasons you mention, because it was getting too frustrating. The reason why I'm annoyed about it is because I'm just really disappointed, I expected a lot for the game, I actually still like it, but having my main heal broken and the devs ignoring the threads about it and not fixing anything is totally [Removed for Content] me off. Sure, I could do another toon, but what if the same thing happens again? It doesn't seem that the dev team is in any hurry to look into what is wrong and even less fix it.

[blargh]

<DIV>It's tough when you like your toon and things don't work properly.  But the only good thing about things like this is that it makes us each better players.  The thing about humans is that we are able to adapt and change to things.  Sure it's in a virtual world, but we still find ways to work around the issues.  I just don't agree with the way people handle it.  I've complained to people about issues, but things always seem to work out if you let the Dev's know what's bugging everyone the most.  I'm sure in a week or two they'll fix things, we, as users/players can only identify and let them know.  If I was a dev and was getting yelled at, I'd say screw everyone and just put you at the bottom of my To Do List.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't fret too much, we choose templars because we want to help and the Dev's will come up with something to help alleviate the problems that we face.  Until then, it's always fun to see what we can and can't do.  Play an alt toon for awhile, I've been fooling around with several other toons.  The game is still early and it's better then WoW, FF, SWG, DAoC (imho).  i've enjoyed my time so far, and you just have to find other things to do to pass the time until everything is figured out.  To help the community out the most is to be supportive of the company and point out problems issues without being aggressive.  I've found things to work out better if people take things in steps and show a little patience. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Take care</DIV>

[Aurvid]

<DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>My main character is a level 24 Templar... I'm completely happy with him, never needed a second healer, I can get hit if necessary while the MA get agro, I kick butt healing and hardly run out of power.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Could we heal better? Sure we can use some more healing power… just like a DPS class could deal more damage … The MA could have more HP/AC… , pets could be bigger and have AI to do what ever they like in favor of their masters… mobs could have less hp, and the damage they deal been cut in half. <SPAN> </SPAN>We could max level in just a few weeks and all mobs drop uber equipment... </FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P><SPAN> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>In the meanwhile learn to deal with what you got and become a better healer on the way (not saying you’re a bad healer because I don’t know you), if something needs to be fixed it will be done in due time… </FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Alucard Moonshadow</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Level 24 Templar </FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Lavastorm</FONT></SPAN></P></SPAN></DIV>

[Celestian_]

<DIV>I can heal just fine if we fight one mob and its white and if we get multiples a illusionist/chanter deals with it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However I rarely fight in groups that fight "whites" and not also do I have an enchanters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please, the "use tactics" sorta response is not a valid one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I ask that you to go into Varsoon's for a few hours and then come back and post about your experince.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Celestian_GC on <span class=date_text>12-03-2004</span> <span class=time_text>03:05 AM</span>

[Fugaci]

Growing into the spell is a nonsense answer there are 14 levels between 12 and 26, so yeah the spell is "harder" to cast but it should be better than anything a level 12 spell can do period. This is closely followed by the upgrade your spells arguement, if the app1 versions of the spell aren't that much different from eachother the adept3 versions of the spells aren't going to be that much different. Use tactics answers aren't very helpful either since this is a post about a broken spell. I'm not 26 yet, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this is messed up. MOBs, especially named MOBs just hit harder and harder and harder. I do know that if my vitae isn't keeping up, there isn't much time left to finish off the encounter before the Tank is going to bite it. The vitae line is our main bread and butter. Can we exists as Templars with a gimped SP? sure, I know the group I play with finds stuff we tear up and just keep tearing it up. Being able to upgrade BOV to Adept3 and get some relief probalby helps, it doesn't make up for the fact that SP should be doing better than it is though.Has there been any talk of profession correspondents that interact with the devs like in SWG? This would be one of the best ways to get their attention if Templars had a correspondent. Sometimes it takes a while for a class' top issues to be addressed even with that system, but at least there is some communication. It also normaly allows for better discussions about problems such as this without people suggesting that we ignore the problem and others suggesting to just work around it.

[Good Tony Bad To]

well then give up. or come back in a few months when things are sorted out.http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=16&message.id=47http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=20&message.id=34everyone has problems right now. it's going to take a little while for SOE to fix this stuff. you can always try WoW and see if that is your thing (seriously). then again, that game has its issues too...

[Celestian_]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Good Tony Bad Tony wrote:<BR>well then give up. or come back in a few months when things are sorted out.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Um, unless we tell them things are not functioning properly or bring up unforseen issues then how till things "get sorted out". </P> <P>Your logic escapes me.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[ThikNogg]

<DIV>Logic? Who uses that on these boards?</DIV>

[Lifewast]

Just FYI:Adept3 SP heals for 168 per tick at lvl 33 , and still only cons blue, so by lvl 40 I'd expect close to 200 per tick from it.Adept3 BOV caps at 134 per tick at lvl 25 .Its worth noting, that BOV caps 1 lvl below when we get SP.....so we could expect SP to keep improving right up till we get the next reactive at 44 I think ?

[Jukk]

Even with a very high level 200 reactive heal...after three hits...that means you have done away with 600 damage on the tank.Compare with a shaman ward...high level one...my guess is 600 PER HIT.Reactives = crapWards = ruleThere is no balance between the priest classes. Shamans do a MUCH better job keeping the tank up.

[De]

"We should have something to look forward to each level.. all the other classes do. Now I'm just get a new spell and think, eh, still doesn't beat my low level spell."Agreed. This is bad design.I'm ok with the concept of all priests healing roughly equal, provided that they also have <b>other abilities that equal out as well.</b> In other words, if a Druid or Shaman can heal as well as a Cleric, but they also have much more interesting and useful other abilities and spells, then that is <b>out of balance.</b>Every class should have something to look forward to at regular intervals.

[blargh]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Celestian_GC wrote:<BR> <DIV>I can heal just fine if we fight one mob and its white and if we get multiples a illusionist/chanter deals with it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However I rarely fight in groups that fight "whites" and not also do I have an enchanters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please, the "use tactics" sorta response is not a valid one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I ask that you to go into Varsoon's for a few hours and then come back and post about your experince.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Celestian_GC on <SPAN class=date_text>12-03-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:05 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> <DIV>I'm posting up about my experience.  Was with a group down there killing red^^ level 30 mobs and were fine.  We were killing the Clay something or rather guards that stroll through.  It was my first time there, so I have no idea what part of the zone I was in.  Two healers, both templars.  One guy on MT, level 25 Templar, and I was on spot healing/debuffing.  We had one minor problem with AE and had to evac, only death was mine.  I  was down in Varsoon for about 3 hours.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not sure what you are trying to get at, but If you don't try going for hard mobs just for fun and stop worrying about debt XP, you'd find more joy in taking on different things.  Ofcourse you have to be smart about it and not do level 50 mobs if you're level 20.  But if you don't test to see your boundaries, you'll never know what you can do.  I've been in groups where I am the only healer doing yellow/orange^ mobs and it's been fine.  So I don't know why you would limit yourself to only white con mobs.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV>

[Celestian_]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> blarghy2 wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV> <DIV>I'm posting up about my experience.  Was with a group down there killing red^^ level 30 mobs and were fine.  We were killing the Clay something or rather guards that stroll through.  It was my first time there, so I have no idea what part of the zone I was in.  Two healers, both templars.  One guy on MT, level 25 Templar, and I was on spot healing/debuffing.  We had one minor problem with AE and had to evac, only death was mine.  I  was down in Varsoon for about 3 hours.</DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>You just proved my point. You had two healers.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My response was regarding :</DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>My main character is a level 24 Templar... I'm completely happy with him, never needed a second healer, I can get hit if necessary while the MA get agro, I kick butt healing and hardly run out of power.</FONT></SPAN></P></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[blargh]

<DIV>Aye, we did have two healers in a group.  I was a secondary backup healing.  The main healer kept the MT up.  All i did throughout was nuke/debuff.  The healer kept the MT up through everything, i healed probably about 2 times through the 3 hours.  I was there as an emergency.  If things got knee deep, then i was there.  Having 2 Templars/Healers in a group means you can run through zones faster killing.  If one is out of mana, switch to the 2nd.  I don't see anything wrong with that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The hardest thing for each of us to let go of the fact that are not going to be the #1 and ONLY head honcho healing.  We may all want to, but we aren't going to.  (yet, who knows?)  Deal with what you've got now.  That's all that I'm trying to say.  You work with what you got.  You adapt and you move forward.  Having two healers is one form of adaption, or learning to use your spells more efficiently.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If everyone feels that a shaman/druid heals better, then, like I've said before, delete your templar/start a new toon.  It's pretty simple.  If you care for your class, then play and learn from your class.  Offer input, /bug, /report.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Lamprey_02]

Am I the only person around who's happy with his templar? Lvl 26 still (blew a few days tradeskilling on an alt), about to ding 27, I have no problem keeping the tank alive on my own and am enjoying playing this class. I get groups easily, I feel necessary and wanted in them, and I like my spells...Someone post here that they like their class too so I don't feel so alone <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Gwynet]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lamprey_02 wrote:<BR>Am I the only person around who's happy with his templar? Lvl 26 still (blew a few days tradeskilling on an alt), about to ding 27, I have no problem keeping the tank alive on my own and am enjoying playing this class. I get groups easily, I feel necessary and wanted in them, and I like my spells...<BR><BR>Someone post here that they like their class too so I don't feel so alone <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I like it, or I wouldn't bother posting here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just come back in 5 levels or so when you still have to use BoV to heal, and we'll see if you don't get frustrated from having to chain heal to keep someone alive because your heals are not strong enough.</DIV>

[Celestian_]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lamprey_02 wrote:<BR>Am I the only person around who's happy with his templar? Lvl 26 still (blew a few days tradeskilling on an alt), about to ding 27, I have no problem keeping the tank alive on my own and am enjoying playing this class. I get groups easily, I feel necessary and wanted in them, and I like my spells... <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>I can't imagine you hunt in Varsoons or the like as the only healer in the group then. I can only guess that your secondary healer is taking up the slack we should be carrying as a "healer" class. We're not DPS or tanks... far as I know we're healers first and buffers second. Why do groups need a secondary healer if we're suppose to be the best healers?</P> <P>I like my templar, thats why I want it tweaked or our role defined differently.</P> <P> </P>

[Foible]

I think Gwynet's original point is very well taken. My intuition would be that a level 26 spell would be superior to its level 14 counterpart to the same degree that level 26 mobs hit harder than level 14 mobs. Doesn’t that just seem balanced and normal? How could you have expected something like the situation Gwynet described? What got into the dev’s collective head to design something like this? Why is there no information about the spell breaking-in period? If we knew what to expect there would be no room for complaint.

[Bvarien]

<blockquote><hr>Lifewaster wrote:Just FYI:Adept3 SP heals for 168 per tick at lvl 33 , and still only cons blue, so by lvl 40 I'd expect close to 200 per tick from it.Adept3 BOV caps at 134 per tick at lvl 25 .Its worth noting, that BOV caps 1 lvl below when we get SP.....so we could expect SP to keep improving right up till we get the next reactive at 44 I think ?<hr></blockquote>If it cons blue then it will not increase in power. Once a spell cons white it is at max power, blue means it is starting to go below your ability. I got BoV adept3 at lvl 21, it was yellow con and healed for 128 hp a tick. After I dinged 22 it conned white and healed for 134 hp a tick. I am now 24 and it still heals for 134 a tick because it maxed out when it was white con at 22.

[Gwynet]

<DIV>It is yellow at 32, so I think he meant yellow.</DIV>

[Bvarien]

Not on topic, but grats Gwynet, you are the first poster that I have seen with "Master" status.

[Zabumt]

<DIV>If you got a good group with alot of DPS you can take on the usual encounters in Varsoon as the only healer with little to no downtime.  I think the mistake some people make in Varsoon is putting together a fighter heavy group and expecting the healers to keep up.  Even with two healers, it's a pain and kind of stressful.  And that's with one of the healers being a warder.  Believe me I know, I've been in a lower dps group with a warder down there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Has anybody read the spell description for SP?  In the description, it says that it not only heals reactively but also buffs AC randomly per heal.  I've noticed just using it at app3 that it SEEMS to be healing for more damage than my app3 BoV and the tank seems to take less damage.  Anyone else notice?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So far, SP has become my main reactive at 27 with SP at app3.  Before I upgraded SP, I was using BoV still.  But now that I've started using SP, I do notice some sort of change in the amount of damage he's taking.  One of my guildmates (another Templar) managed to get a jasper and adept3 of SP.  So we'll do some testing if we get time and throw some numbers out there about the difference between app3 SP and adept3 SP.  Does anyone know if SP lasts for more hits than BoV?  I haven't actually tested it but I get the feeling that maybe SP is lasting longer?  Or maybe it's the higher level tanks I have access to now avoiding hits.  Don't know on that one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just some things to think about.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Lamprey_02]

I was the only healer in Varsoon just the other night. The group invised to golems and we did tailor room, killed the golems in the halls in between. With a good tank (lvl 26-28, 1600+ ac) it's really not that bad. The trick is to send the tank in with both reactive heals on him so that one takes over when the other runs out; then, debuff the mob as it's incoming. Land sign of weakness & disgrace on it - get them both at adept I if you haven't yet - then make sure the tank has BoV on him at all times, spot heal as necessary. Usually takes 49-50% of my mana per fight with each of the golems, lvl 30^^ mobs. That's easily recovered between fights provided youi use good food/drink; I recommend player-made drinks like coffee for this as they provide a nice boost during a fight and in between.If we get an add it can get dicey, but if they group knows what they're doing you're likely to make it. Seeing as you don't have a second healer you probably have an extra dps class so the mobs go down that much faster, especially considering that disgrace nearly doubles melee dps - or so the melee dps classes tell me. Be sure to get weakness on the add ASAP, otherwise BoV/SP won't keep up and you will run out of mana spam healing. With weakness, you'll still need combat heal but not enough of it to run out. Your group will know to go all out on the first one before you're out of mana healing the dmg from 2 mobs, then you can take it easier on the second one. Tank's hunker down/defensive abilities help much.My point is, it is entirely possible for a Templar to be the only healer in a dungeon in the mid 20s. It's difficult and you require a good group as well as preparation (good food, good gear - a decent mana pool is essential, you need at least 900 at lvl 26, alchemist mana potions for those tough spots). I'll always want a second healer around for the extra measure of safety, naturally, but Templars aren't so broken that we can't do our job alone. Yes, we do have trouble and it's not easy, but ask a shaman or a druid; it's no cakewalk for them to be the only healer in a dungeon either. The way I see it this is NOT EQ1 where a single cleric could keep his group alive while reading a book and we can't expect that now, the healer classes are supposed to be equal when it comes to healing. Shamans and druids may have better dmg dealing capabilities but they don't get groups because of it any more than we get groups because we can tank more than them. All 3 priests get groups because they're healers and I think they're somewhat equal at the job.

[khrokh]

i won't complain too much about the 2 healers needed per group, it has seriously improved since beta where it was required (especially during the monster barrage period), and even if it is stressfull to be the only healer in a group it works. I ve been hunting successfully red++ in Runnyeye and enchanted lands at lvl 30, sometimes even with a bard or an assassin as main tanks. An add usually means you have to evac if there is no enchanter as I can't keep a tank up being hit by 2 of these mobs. However I am always in very high DPS groups (never more than one fighter if any), and we fight mobs that we kill in a blink.However I am still using BoV (ad3) at 30, SP in app3 healing for 30HP less per hit for a higher power cost. I am waiting for a jasper or a palladium to make the switch to SP, and even then i don't expect it to be a huge upgrade.

[craghack]

I have noticed that if the MT is not up to speed on AC then we will be chain healing on him when we fight yellows and reds. A lot of times there are more factors than just lack of healing ability. Sometimes it is frustrating but it happens. SOE will probably look at it in the near future as more and more players get to those levels. This is just like what happened when EQ went live. Warriors were crap, Rangers were worse, Druids were uber...Eventually they work it out, but it is frustrating waiting...And I would expect that EQ2 is only really working correctly or as expected for low end game, level 30 or lower. Just like in EQ, high end game was not even available when it was released. I remember an internet talk show at the end of EQ Beta and Brad answered some questions and one was about High End Game, and he stated that the High End game will be tested and implemented after initial release. Which is what I beleive has happened here.

[Gwynet]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zabumtik wrote:<BR> <DIV>If you got a good group with alot of DPS you can take on the usual encounters in Varsoon as the only healer with little to no downtime.  I think the mistake some people make in Varsoon is putting together a fighter heavy group and expecting the healers to keep up.  Even with two healers, it's a pain and kind of stressful.  And that's with one of the healers being a warder.  Believe me I know, I've been in a lower dps group with a warder down there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Has anybody read the spell description for SP?  In the description, it says that it not only heals reactively but also buffs AC randomly per heal.  I've noticed just using it at app3 that it SEEMS to be healing for more damage than my app3 BoV and the tank seems to take less damage.  Anyone else notice?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So far, SP has become my main reactive at 27 with SP at app3.  Before I upgraded SP, I was using BoV still.  But now that I've started using SP, I do notice some sort of change in the amount of damage he's taking.  One of my guildmates (another Templar) managed to get a jasper and adept3 of SP.  So we'll do some testing if we get time and throw some numbers out there about the difference between app3 SP and adept3 SP.  Does anyone know if SP lasts for more hits than BoV?  I haven't actually tested it but I get the feeling that maybe SP is lasting longer?  Or maybe it's the higher level tanks I have access to now avoiding hits.  Don't know on that one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just some things to think about.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yeah SP is supposed to give an AC buff sometimes, I didn't notice a difference for the 4 hits that it healed me when I tried though, so my guess is that it doesn't happen often. Even then, 100 more AC on a 2000 AC tank isn't going to change anything.</P> <P>SP is 4 hits as well. That being said, the app3 of SP only starts healing for as much as the app3 of BoV at level 31 or so, for more power, so it's better to use BoV until 31 if you have only app3's IMO.</P> <P>I'm really curious about how the adept 3 of SP works though - could you post your level, and the power/heal of the spell? That would be great.<BR></P>

[Eldur]

<DIV>At level 28 with adept 3 supplicants, I get 4 heals at 133, with the last hit giving 197 (total 729 hp heal for 81 power)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With apprentice 3 bestowal I get 4 hits at 102 with the last being 101 (total 509 hp heal for 55 power)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Apathyloves]

<DIV> <DIV>I recently hit 26.6 so I though I'd wade into this thread especially since I have a jasper burning a hole in my pocket.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Eldur wrote:<BR> <DIV>At level 28 with adept 3 supplicants, I get 4 heals at 133, with the last hit giving 197 (total 729 hp heal for 81 power)</DIV> <DIV>With apprentice 3 bestowal I get 4 hits at 102 with the last being 101 (total 509 hp heal for 55 power)</DIV> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yea for real numbers!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a different note...</DIV> <DIV>I'm going to take some wild guesses here.  1) SoE knows the exact amounts of each heal  2)  SoE knows the exact amounts of damage mobs put out  3)  SoE knows the exact amounts of buff SP gives, how's it triggered and how often. 4) SoE knows how often a 26.6+ templar casts BoV, casts SP, casts app1,2,3, adept 1 or 3 as well. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That being said...</DIV> <DIV>In order for SoE to "fix" anything, let's remember two things. First off, SP may not be broken at all and the "problem" may lie elsewhere e.g. mobs hit too hard, mobs hit too often, tanks need more AC, tanks need better evade, fighting regen rates need tweaking, etc.  Secondly, if there is something wrong, then the templar community, you, me, him, her has to be very specific about it, and to facilitate our position we have to advocate a position that works for us, our group, and the overall SoE plan.  "Fix it" isn't going to work, "I'm disappointed" isn't going to help either.  If you want something different, realize that the SoE devs are busy with many other classes, armor classes, spell damages, a zillion different items, zones with their bugs, spawns, tears, pathing, not to mention server starts, CSR tickets, and all the while creating new content.  If you present a solution that makes their job easy, then they are much more likely to go with it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My point in a nutshell...</DIV> <DIV>A same level comparison of adept 3 BoV and SP and a good idea of how often the AC buff occurs and for how much is needed to start.  We also need to know what a same quality SP lvl 26.6 vs. a same quality lvl 30+ SP gives in the way of health.  Then we can know what SoE knows and can advocate a position with the same knowledge.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BakerJoe</DIV> <DIV>26 Nektulos</DIV></DIV>

[Lifewast]

The AC buff seems to kick in pretty much every hit, and going by the numbers above adept3 SP is healing 133 when we first get it at lvl 26, when comparing to bestowal which gives a max of 134 when mastered I'd have to agree it doesnt really seem broken at all.You are paying a bit more power in cast cost, but getting the AC buff pretty often so from lvls 26-30 its a toss up as to which is better to use, will the ac help reduce subsequent hits enough that a net HP gain occurs, or is a net hp gain happening anyway in which case bestowal may be better, etc...From lvl 30+ the increase in heal strenght alone is probably worth it anyway over bestowal....

[Gwynet]

<DIV>I couldn't care less about an AC debuff that makes no difference.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can't see how it couldn't be broken when I see the numbers we have though.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At 28, the adept 3 of supplicant's is still not worth it over the adept 3 of BoV if I believe the numbers above. This is broken... At 28 the adept 3 of a level 26 spell should own the adept 3 of a level 12 spell.</DIV>

[Eldur]

<DIV>With 143 in my regimens skill (28.6) I now have Adept 3 bestowal and Adept 3 supplicants.</DIV> <DIV>Here are the numbers:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Adept 3 BoV: 134 hp heal for 4 hits with the last heal adding a 141 hp heal. Total hp healed 677 for 62 power or 10.92 hp/power.</DIV> <DIV>Adept 3 SP: 133 hp heal for 4 hits with the last heal adding a 197 hp heal. Total hp healed 729 for 81 power or 9 hp/power.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Juha</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: ( I've added this for you number junkies)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Adept 1 Combat heal at this level gives 245 hps for 65 power or 3.77 hp/power (plus a combat buff)</DIV> <DIV>Adept 1 Arch healing at this level gives 427 hps for 102 power or 4.19 hp/power (plus cures trauma)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Eldur on <span class=date_text>12-08-2004</span> <span class=time_text>01:20 PM</span>

[Gwynet]

<DIV>Thanks!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm sorry, i don't think it makes sense that 2 levels after you get a spell, the adept 3 is still not worth using over a level 12 adept 3 spell.</DIV>

[Eldur]

<DIV>Before I upgraded BoV from Apprentice 3 to Adept 3, I used Supplicants since I had that at Adept 3 and I was able to net more hps healed over time.</DIV> <DIV>Now that they are close, I tend to use BoV at Adept 3 since the total hp over time is about the same.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are two ways to look at heal efficiency:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The first is the amount healed for the power spent. This is good for controlled pulls and steady tanking. (Theory: I can heal longer if I spend my power wisely)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The second is the amount healed in a certain period of time. Since my reactives net a certain amount of hps after my tank gets hit 4 times, I sometimes look to see which heal will give back the most amount of hitpoints regardless of power spent. This is good for fast and furious mobs really hammering on my tanks. (Theory: Forget about power efficiency, I need to keep my tank alive now or we're all dead)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For Regimens 143 (level 28.6)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As it stands now, the extra 52 hitpoints that Adept 3 supplicants gives isnt worth the extra 19 power.</DIV> <DIV>I have 915 power (without power buffs, and ignoring regen) so I can cast 14 BoVs which lets me heal 9478 hps in a battle.</DIV> <DIV>I can cast Supplicants 11 times which lets me heal 8019. In a steady battle, using BoV lets me heal 1459 more hps which can really make a difference.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For you number junkies, total hps I can heal with 915 power:</DIV> <DIV>Adept 3 BoV: 14x677=9478 hps</DIV> <DIV>Adept 3 SP: 11x729=8019 hps</DIV> <DIV>Adept 1 Combat Heal: 14x245=3430 hps</DIV> <DIV>Adept 1 Arch healing: 9x427=3843 hps</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our reactives are still much better than normal heals. you can heal 2-3 times more hps if you work your reactives correctly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The efficiency is pretty close on our reactives compared to the normal instant heals.</DIV> <DIV>If your tank is really getting beat on, you can cycle the two reactives and be an extremely efficient healer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The big question is: Is Supplicants broken?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The answer is that it probably needs a little tweaking (about 10-20%) to make it an equal to better heal than our level 12 bestowal spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope this is clear enough to understand <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Juha</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Eldur on <SPAN class=date_text>12-08-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:42 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Eldur on <span class=date_text>12-08-2004</span> <span class=time_text>02:17 PM</span>

[Gwynet]

<DIV>Good post <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I totally agree.</DIV>

[Zabumt]

<DIV>Still this is just raw healing numbers.  There has got to be a boost to damage mitigation from the AC buff.  Yes, I know, Gwynet, you don't believe that's the case.  But from my experiences so far, I believe it is the case.  Yes, it may heal for slightly less damage but does it need to heal for more?  With the random AC buff, does the tank just get hit less, get hit for less damage, or some of both?  I'd be perfectly happy with SP (as I currently am) if I can just keep the tank standing for slightly less or the same power as I was using before.  I don't care what the raw heal numbers are.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A test and parsed damage log is needed on a reasonably equipped tank over a substantial period of time in order for us to compare the two spells.  From personal experience, SP just works better than BoV.  (app3 to app3) at level 28.  At 28, app3 BoV heals for 103 damage per tick, app3 SP for 102.  But the tank seems to get hit for less damage and, overall, gets hit less.  Which would explain why I see the reactive lasting a little longer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not trying to play devil's advocate here.  I'm just going but what I've experienced.  I simply use less power to heal when I use SP over BoV at this level.</DIV>

[Lifewast]

<blockquote><hr>Zabumtik wrote:<DIV>Still this is just raw healing numbers. There has got to be a boost to damage mitigation from the AC buff. Yes, I know, Gwynet, you don't believe that's the case. But from my experiences so far, I believe it is the case. Yes, it may heal for slightly less damage but does it need to heal for more? With the random AC buff, does the tank just get hit less, get hit for less damage, or some of both? I'd be perfectly happy with SP (as I currently am) if I can just keep the tank standing for slightly less or the same power as I was using before. I don't care what the raw heal numbers are.</div><DIV> </div><DIV>A test and parsed damage log is needed on a reasonably equipped tank over a substantial period of time in order for us to compare the two spells. From personal experience, SP just works better than BoV. (app3 to app3) at level 28. At 28, app3 BoV heals for 103 damage per tick, app3 SP for 102. But the tank seems to get hit for less damage and, overall, gets hit less. Which would explain why I see the reactive lasting a little longer.</div><DIV> </div><DIV>I'm not trying to play devil's advocate here. I'm just going but what I've experienced. I simply use less power to heal when I use SP over BoV at this level.</div><hr></blockquote>In that instance , it may be situational as to which to use, at the onset of the fight when tank is full hp , the overheals from supplicants will be wasted, thus the optimal use of power may be using a couple of BOV initially, then changing to SP, when the tank has lost some health may actually provide enough extra ac that the ticks produce hp gains back to full hp, then switch back to BOV again and so on....This could be less power usage then using only BOV then resorting to adding direct heals mid fight.Also the weakness debuff may have to play a role in whether the ac boost becomes significant enough.As you say theres not enought evidence, nor do we know any templars who have mastered adept SP to see what the final healing power actually is, except that we know its greater than 168 per.Perhaps all the heals are balanced at the mastered lvl, and some priests may be having a harder time at lvl 26 than other priests are but when we are all lvl 38 with adept3 its not going to make any difference.

[Gwynet]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zabumtik wrote:<BR> <DIV>Still this is just raw healing numbers.  There has got to be a boost to damage mitigation from the AC buff.  Yes, I know, Gwynet, you don't believe that's the case.  But from my experiences so far, I believe it is the case.  Yes, it may heal for slightly less damage but does it need to heal for more?  With the random AC buff, does the tank just get hit less, get hit for less damage, or some of both?  I'd be perfectly happy with SP (as I currently am) if I can just keep the tank standing for slightly less or the same power as I was using before.  I don't care what the raw heal numbers are.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A test and parsed damage log is needed on a reasonably equipped tank over a substantial period of time in order for us to compare the two spells.  From personal experience, SP just works better than BoV.  (app3 to app3) at level 28.  At 28, app3 BoV heals for 103 damage per tick, app3 SP for 102.  But the tank seems to get hit for less damage and, overall, gets hit less.  Which would explain why I see the reactive lasting a little longer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not trying to play devil's advocate here.  I'm just going but what I've experienced.  I simply use less power to heal when I use SP over BoV at this level.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yeah I understand that. Honestly though, with a tank with 2k AC I really don't think that a 100 AC boost is going to make any difference (I think it's more around 150 for me actually).</P> <P>It's not even that... The equivalent spell that inquisitor have also has a secondary effect (gives damage to the target), yet it heals for 35 more. This is the main reason why I really think it's just broken.<BR></P>

[Cassusdy]

<DIV>Upgrade your spells missy....it gets better  =D   Im a 36 Templar and at adept 3....trust me it gets better</DIV>

[Gwynet]

<DIV>Yes it does, but it's still not good enough if you compare both SP and BoV at 28. Check the link in my sig for numbers. I would be curious to know for how much the inquisitor adept 3 heals for at 28 actually.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Gwynet on <span class=date_text>12-09-2004</span> <span class=time_text>01:55 PM</span>

[khrokh]

Ok here is my summary at lvl 33 (165 in regimens)- BoV AD3 - 62 Pow - 134 x 4 Heals - 2s cast - 6s recast- SP AD3 - 99 Pow - 158 x 4 Heals - 2s cast - 6s recast- Int AD1 - 192 Pow - 258 x 8?Heals - 5s cast - 15s recastSP Heals 18% more than BoV per pop in AD3 for 60% more power.Mana hasn't been much of a problem for me recently so it is more about amount healed per second (or per reaction). In that respect at lvl 33 SP which is a lvl 26 spell gives me a 18% increase in healing power over a lvl 12 spell.

[Eldur]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> khrokhro wrote:<BR>Ok here is my summary at lvl 33 (165 in regimens)<BR>- BoV AD3 - 62 Pow - 134 x 4 Heals - 2s cast - 6s recast<BR>- SP AD3 - 99 Pow - 158 x 4 Heals - 2s cast - 6s recast<BR>- Int AD1 - 192 Pow - 258 x 8?Heals - 5s cast - 15s recast<BR><BR><BR>SP Heals 18% more than BoV per pop in AD3 for 60% more power.<BR><BR>Mana hasn't been much of a problem for me recently so it is more about amount healed per second (or per reaction). In that respect at lvl 33 SP which is a lvl 26 spell gives me a 18% increase in healing power over a lvl 12 spell.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>On the reactives, they tend to give a bonus heal on the last hit, you remember what that number is?</FONT></DIV> <DIV>(At least that's what I'm seeing)</FONT></DIV>

[Gwynet]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> khrokhro wrote:<BR>Ok here is my summary at lvl 33 (165 in regimens)<BR>- BoV AD3 - 62 Pow - 134 x 4 Heals - 2s cast - 6s recast<BR>- SP AD3 - 99 Pow - 158 x 4 Heals - 2s cast - 6s recast<BR>- Int AD1 - 192 Pow - 258 x 8?Heals - 5s cast - 15s recast<BR><BR><BR>SP Heals 18% more than BoV per pop in AD3 for 60% more power.<BR><BR>Mana hasn't been much of a problem for me recently so it is more about amount healed per second (or per reaction). In that respect at lvl 33 SP which is a lvl 26 spell gives me a 18% increase in healing power over a lvl 12 spell.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Yeah 18% more healing for 60% more power would be almost ok... Not 7 levels after you get the spell though. It should be this way at 26 or 27.

[khrokh]

<blockquote><div>On the reactives, they tend to give a bonus heal on the last hit, you remember what that number is?(At least that's what I'm seeing)</div></blockquote>It seems it is for 8 more HP, or at least i have seen a decent number of heals that were 8 over the usual amount.<p>Message Edited by khrokhro on <span class=date_text>12-11-2004</span> <span class=time_text>07:49 AM</span>

[Epon]

<DIV>I would have to totally agree with the original poster. Although Im a Warden, I run into the same problem. I often get a new spell, only to find that it isnt useful for a few levels or just isnt useful at all. Its not right to get a new spell and have it be no better than a MUCH lower spell. I got Effloresce around lv 19 I think, or thereabout, and I never use it. The reason simply being that my regrowth is about 10 times better, heals for more, and is more power effeicent than Effloresce. Even at app3.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This needs to be tweaked, plain and simple. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To the original poster : Not geting a good spell makes you no less of a good healer than before. I find Templars to be the best healer (IMHO). I actually regret not chosing a dwarven templar over a wood elf warden. Sure, you may get more agro, but you have about 1/2 again the HP and AC that I have, as well as Wis and Power. You may not have the damage output, but I rarely ever use a damage spell when in a yellow ^^ group. </DIV>