Manipulation - Tainted Heals

[Stormwolf86]

<DIV>Says everytime i cast a manipulation spell, my pet is healed for 13% of its hp, is that even possible? Loathesome mark has a 1 second cast time and 2 second recast time, thats a 13% heal every 2 sec, is this right? can someone confirm? i dont have enuf aa yet</DIV>

[Za]

<DIV>Yeah it is that good, but the total of cast and recast timers makes it not overpowered. And Drawing of Souls does still cost you a soul thingy every time you cast it.</DIV>

[Za]

and 1 second cast time + the time it takes to drop the 1st cast + 2 seconds for recast after you do that + another 1 second cast = alot more than 2 seconds.

[Stormwolf86]

So what, a 4 or 5 second recast between a 13% heal? does that not seem a bit overpowered? anyone care to comment?

[Stormwolf86]

<DIV>You could use loathesome mark, then use drawing of souls, then drop loathesome mark while casting drawing of souls, then cast loathesome again, thats 39% heal in seconds, then u have fear and whatever else counts for a manipulation spell, thats pretty insane, doesnt dispel magic count as one too? comments plz</DIV>

[gr8scott]

<P>I have been researching this a bit and I am considering getting this ability (I don't have it yet, so all that follows is speculation...) It is definitely a good ability, but not at all overwhelming.  </P> <P>All of the manipulations line of spells have long recast times with the exception of root and loathsome mark.  Loathsome mark has a 1 sec cast and a 2 sec refresh.  You do have to manually click it off which will add another .5 / 1 sec in practice.  If it is 4 seconds for a complete cycle, and your pet has 10khp, then this works out to 325 health healed per second (HPS).  Our existing heals can be used to get around 300hps or so in practice (see this thread:  <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=30&message.id=26947" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=30&message.id=26947</A>).  I think you could probably weave in a root every now and then into this sequence to get an extra heal.  Basically though you are spaming loathsome mark with the occasional other spell between marks.  IMO you wouldn't be able to effectively heal the pet with this ability and stack on top of it our normal healing methods (too much casting is required with our normal heals to both heal the pet and then heal us back up).  I'm sure you could stack it a bit, but no way could you efffectively do both.</P> <P>You can also use this ability to get burst healing by casting all the manipulations spells that have long recast times.  As was mentioned, you could probably get 3 quick casts in and get 39% health heal.  This makes this ability a lot like having our heal staff (40% pet heal) available for each fight.  Which is very nice also.</P> <P>I view this as an ability that really makes pet tanking more viable for the hard encounters, but not so huge that it makes anything trivial.  300hps is a very nice addition, but the way our tank pet goes down, it is not going to magically make you able to tank solo a ton of stuff.  It may be something that helps you live long enough to get baddies down to 50% or 60% so that lifeburn/diety abilities come into play (at least this is why I am interested in it).</P> <P>More thoughts after I actually have the ability lol.</P> <P>GS</P> <P>(Oh and fear is usually a bad choice unless you are out in the open w/o social mobs around <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>EDIT: oh I forgot, the other thing I am concerned with is the aggro management.  I'm not sure if our pet can hold aggro over this type of healing.  I won't know this until I have the ability.  Anyone have a take on that?</P><p>Message Edited by gr8scott on <span class=date_text>12-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:37 AM</span>

[nadym]

<P>Ive been using this for a couple days and what i noticed is that you can take a different approach when fighting a 65+++, you can send pet, let it take aggro and get beaten and instead of just healing pet that diminishes your own life, you cast some manipulation spells to heal pet, in this way you are taking a somewhat offensive approach.</P> <P>Those spells are not only healing pet pretty well but also, giving you up to 104 sta 104 wis (5 AAs) and decreasing those stats equally on mob, hence healing 13% pet.... not bad.  So just with loathsome mark you have not lost your own life (by using displace life on pet) but you have increased it and decreased mob's and healed pet.</P> <P>After this step you contrict mob for 5 sec (was it 5?), during the time you are healing your pet and also creating somewhat the equivalent to 100% avoidance for pet, after all he stops being beaten totally <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Why dont try a dispel magic? for sure is really fast to cast, i think is 1 sec, it will add another 13% heal in no time. Now with this finishing AA it becomes useful.</P> <P>If you are tanking in an open space without social mobs around (most of times not) you can spam some chains, maybe fear.</P> <P>It adds another very interesting effect in your combat, as you are not needing to be healed yourself so frequently (you didnt need to transfer so much life to pet) you do not have to lifetap so frequently neither. What happens with this? You steal aggro from tank pet less frequently by just using the other smaller dot spells, swarm pets, etc. and using a bit manipulation.</P> <P>I think is pretty nice ability. Not saying is the one to choose, but an interesting one.</P> <P>Cheers.</P>

[Deila]

<P> </P> <P>If the Necromancer gets the hate for all that healing, that would be the balancing factor. Spamming too many Manipulations spells (and doing <EM>too much</EM> healing) in too short a time span would be the same as over nuking too soon. Sure, there may be ways that you could spam out 13% heals every couple of seconds, but when you consider how much health the tank pet has, add those healing numbers up with DoTs and other damage you're doing to the mob you'd just be likely to be peeling aggro that much faster. And all that pet healing means nothing if he's not the one taking the hits any more.</P> <P>Gradually making my way up to Tainted Heals to give it a try for pet-tanking solo, but I was assuming that there would be hate associated with those heals. Looked like a good way to get some extra tricks to throw into the mix, but carte blanche mega-pet-healing? Not really expecting it to work that way. Guess we'll see.</P> <P> </P>

[Mup]

I have Tainted Heals and it works on any spell that doesn't do damage (fear, root, stun, dispel magic, loathsome mark, drawing of souls).  It heals my tank pet for about 1850 (13%) every time I cast one of those spells, and yes they are spammable if you cancel the debuffs and recast them as fast as possible.  Few things I've noticed when you have it - No aggro is gained other than spamming debuffs or other spells on the mob, so no healing aggro - You can only root one thing at a time because it applies the root icon on you just like Loathsome Mark shows up on your buff bar - When a mob dies with Drawing of Souls on, it won't cancel the debuff until it wears off or you cancel it by force - Necromantic Brand (the pet noxious debuff proc) buffs you as well, so you can proc noxious debuffs on your spells as well<div></div>

[nadym]

<P>wouldnt be strange if they nerf it.</P> <P>Its very very very easy to kill a 65 +++ mob with a nightshade just spaming chains (every 6 secs), dispel magic (every 20?), loathsome & drawing of souls.</P> <P>Just spam chains and your nightshade will do the rest. You will end the fight having killed a 65+++ without your own life being touched and nightshade near 100% hp.</P> <P> </P> <P>Cheers.</P>

[Stormwolf86]

<DIV>I was wondering, and you stated, that necromantic brand procs this, meaning whenever the pet procs it, he is healed for 13%? or did u mean a different way?</DIV>

[Mup]

No, it will only heal the pet when you cast the buff, not every time it procs.  What I meant was it gave you the buff as well so your spells can proc the noxious debuff when you cast, not just your pet.<div></div>

[Romka]

<div><blockquote><hr>Mupki wrote:I have Tainted Heals and it works on any spell that doesn't do damage (fear, root, stun, dispel magic, loathsome mark, drawing of souls).  It heals my tank pet for about 1850 (13%) every time I cast one of those spells, and yes they are spammable if you cancel the debuffs and recast them as fast as possible.  Few things I've noticed when you have it - No aggro is gained other than spamming debuffs or other spells on the mob, so no healing aggro - You can only root one thing at a time because it applies the root icon on you just like Loathsome Mark shows up on your buff bar - When a mob dies with Drawing of Souls on, it won't cancel the debuff until it wears off or you cancel it by force - Necromantic Brand (the pet noxious debuff proc) buffs you as well, so you can proc noxious debuffs on your spells as well<div></div><hr></blockquote>Heh, interesting. So, there are 3 bugs (well, its all 1 bug, just 3 different results of it). And btw, it was reported as bug on beta forums, and via /bug and /feedback in game. Especially bug with root was annoying. Shame that they didnt fix it <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Militedes]

<DIV>Another little plus, don't forget if you have Lich/Archlich up, every single manipulation spell you cast will heal you and slap the mob for a little tiny DD, almost like a free dot lifetap (/sigh they need to bring those back from EQ1).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Btw does anyone know if you can change your forum name? Still comes up as Militedes....that was my old main before I realized how nerfed down pallies were in EQ2, heh.</DIV>