Why were pets nerfed w/o notifying in the patch notes?

[Vanyel]

<DIV> <DIV>I'm a necro and most of my pets recently just had their HPs about halved and mitigation raised ONLY about 25%. I posses my pets now and then and examine my spells to see if there are nefs that SOE isn't annoucing fully.. and I just found one. The mitigation boost does not compensate for the HP nerf. I've talk to Conjurers and the same thing has been done to thier pets too</DIV></DIV>

[eburgos]

are you talking about the tank pet? or all pets?<div></div>

[Vanyel]

Nope ALL the pets had this done to them. All their spell abilities also had dmg reduced as well <P>If they are gonna do a nerf, they should have the guts to annouce it to the public instead of quietly sticking it someplace where people don't usually look</P><p>Message Edited by Vanyel on <span class=date_text>08-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:03 AM</span>

[slyfer]

Can someone post pics of the pets persona window and the abilities  before and after this updated to see what has changed?

[KBern]

<DIV>When did this supposedly happen?  My DPS seemed somewhat lower last night no matter what I did, but I chalked it up to resists or mobs just dying fast or lag, whatever...</DIV>

[latrocin]

Yep I noticed this also... I can take a 3^^^ green named with 4 (1or 2 down)adds easy and I could not take 1 named with no adds last night he ate through my pets HP in seconds I filled bug and they said there has been changes made and if I did not agree with them I could file another bug using as many details as I can and the DEV team will look into it.. If this is a change that they made fine I agree with I should not be able to solo group mobs even 10 levels below me. They are meant for a group incounter not my pet and I. What I don't agree with is the change was made in secret and nothing was really listed out in the open. Our scout pet nerf was atleast out in the open.. *flame suit on* <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by latrocinor on <span class=date_text>08-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:00 PM</span>

[Vanyel]

Apparently this was done in the last few weeks.. I just noticed it today.. So I'm guessing in the last LU update.. but there's ZERO notes on this being done.I wouldn't put it past them to change it and hope people don't notice to prevent a huge outcry

[latrocin]

<DIV>^^^</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yep same here I just notcied also</DIV>

[backya]

pets mitigation was totaly removed, pets attacks, nerfed, pets health, raised but only to be eaten in seconds my green mobs. our pets are jokes, they take the full damage from any attack and have no resist.<div></div>

[latrocin]

<P>^^^</P> <P>Yeah I agree but I found I can take yello average with my mage pet now using roots but I can no longer take green 3 ups.. nothing game breaking for me but I know alot of people will be upset</P>

[Kemi]

<DIV>This is total garbage.  Why would that type of change be done in the shadows.  It is not like we are the only class that can solo ^^^heroics 10 levels below us.  I guess every other class can expect a shadow nerf as well...</DIV>

[Colossaltitan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Keming wrote:<BR> <DIV>I guess every other class can expect a shadow nerf as well...</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Not likely, although several classes are overpowered, most manage to notice the Summoner one the most.<BR><BR>Although this change sucks I can only agree on them nerfing our class a bit more.<BR>

[slyfer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Colossaltitan wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Keming wrote:<BR> <DIV>I guess every other class can expect a shadow nerf as well...</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Not likely, although several classes are overpowered, most manage to notice the Summoner one the most.<BR><BR>Although this change sucks I can only agree on them nerfing our class a bit more.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Its fine that they nerf us some but they did it in the wrong way.</P> <P>1.  Not telling us Pet health/Mitigation was changed.  I don't understand this change anyway.  Our pets really can't take a hit anyways.  I was wondering why I was getting owned by the Named Bixie a few days ago.</P> <P>2.  Our pet dps I have no problem with being nerfed, I just want told about it.</P> <P> </P> <P>Could we get a statement of why these things were changed and why we were not notified???</P> <P> </P>

[Jai1]

Maybe it's because summoners are still on the tops of the parses in raids.  Dunno

[Gomora_Toad]

Which pets are you referring to specifically? I ask because I just compared Undying Dreadnought M1's stats from today with a screenshot I'd taken of them on July 7th, and there is zero difference. No change to HP, Mit, CAs, nothing.  (He was level 70 and totally unbuffed in both cases.) I don't have pics of the other pets to compare, unfortunately.

[KBern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jai1 wrote:<BR> Maybe it's because summoners are still on the tops of the parses in raids.  Dunno<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Only in raids where the raid leader has no clue how to set up groups and the other classes are lazy.</P> <P>Go check out the DPS of a well played assassin, swashy or brigand sometime.</P> <P>Assassin is supposed to be top, but swash and brigs are T2 right along with necros and conj's.</P>

[KBern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> GomoraToad wrote:<BR> Which pets are you referring to specifically? I ask because I just compared Undying Dreadnought M1's stats from today with a screenshot I'd taken of them on July 7th, and there is zero difference. No change to HP, Mit, CAs, nothing.  (He was level 70 and totally unbuffed in both cases.) I don't have pics of the other pets to compare, unfortunately.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Good to hear...I haven't noticed much other than the lower DPS in the raid the other night but again I chalked it up to having 3 assassins, 2 swashys, and a brigand there to help kill the mobs faster.</P> <P>Plus I been lagging like a ^&*%$ lately and that affects DPS.</P>

[latrocin]

Not sure what happen (maybe lag) but I can now solo green and white ^^^ .. The whites are a little harder but if I plan things right it's not to bad.. The greens drop just like they use to again... Very odd

[Colossaltitan]

<DIV>A skilled Wizard can top the parse as well.<BR><BR>Honestly, this isn't the first time that SOE has ninja'd things without putting them in the patch notes, thats probably the reason we actually have a term for doing it.<BR><BR>We'll live, we'll still do ridiculous DPS, so no crying. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Icewolf99]

<DIV>"Summoners at the top of raid parses"??  What raids do you go on?  They have been mid pack since the big nerf on every raid I've been on.  Berzerkers are at the top of all of them now. Berzerkers can solo heroics easy still, yet no one cries for them to be nerfed.. such is life in EQ2...</DIV>

[Allowen]

<P>I have noticed it also but I thought was a bug since pet like  stronger, not dieing with a single aoe blow from raid mobs(scout pet from 5400 hp went  to 3380 hp) but actualy pet is surviuving aoes from many mobs such from Labs, Deathtoll(eyeballs) etc. I like that.</P> <P>They either nerfed aoes on all raids or pet is mitigating it better after the change and I like it. but anyways the 3379hp that shows when I control my nightshade m1 might be buged,,,, when we controll pets all atributes get lowered including hp but it used to still was showing like 3380/5400 .... now just show 3380 hp...... .</P> <P>Point is I dont think they nefred the pet s hp but it is justn ot showign correctely when we controll pet to check its stats what is sad because we all woudl lie kto know pet s real HP size !</P> <P>Allowen</P> <P>necromancer from mistmoore server</P> <P>Lords of the triple moons</P>

[Colossaltitan]

<DIV>Within the past two weeks, raid AoE's have seemed to be gimped entirely.  Everything hitting less, hitting for less, or not hitting at all.<BR><BR>/shrug.</DIV>

[Korb]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Allowen wrote:<BR> <P>I have noticed it also but I thought was a bug since pet like  stronger, not dieing with a single aoe blow from raid mobs(scout pet from 5400 hp went  to 3380 hp) but actualy pet is surviuving aoes from many mobs such from Labs, Deathtoll(eyeballs) etc. I like that.</P> <P>They either nerfed aoes on all raids or pet is mitigating it better after the change and I like it. but anyways the 3379hp that shows when I control my nightshade m1 might be buged,,,, when we controll pets all atributes get lowered including hp but it used to still was showing like 3380/5400 .... now just show 3380 hp...... .</P> <P>Point is I dont think they nefred the pet s hp but it is justn ot showign correctely when we controll pet to check its stats what is sad because we all woudl lie kto know pet s real HP size !</P> <P>Allowen</P> <P>necromancer from mistmoore server</P> <P>Lords of the triple moons</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I checked my pet last night and noticed the same thing. The base hp was always much lower than buffed, it looks like buffed hp's are not showing correctly, but I could be wrong. I didn't pay too much attention to the hp's before.

[Catodon]

I just did (Friday 8/1<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> some basic tests of pet hp; will do some more detailed ones tomorrow.I sent an unbuffed (including no sta + int group buff) tank and scout pet against some mobs that could kill them consistently without using super high damage spikes (soul feasters in carrion briar). Used ACT to check how much damage the pets took before dying. Level 70 Undying Dreadnought master 1: Possess Minion display: 7209 unbuffed hp                                                                    Actual HP from test: ~12000Level 70 Nightshade adept3:                     Posess Minion display: 3122 unbuffed hp                                                                    Actual HP from test: ~5000I did not test thoroughly enough yet to get an accurate measure of the pets' physical mitigation, but as a preliminary ballpark, soul feasters were managing between 90 and 150 crush dps against both types of pet while doing between 60-90 dps against me if i let them beat on me for a while (lvl 70 necro, 18.0% displayed mitigation against crush).Tentative conclusion: displayed hp from possess minion is totally wack (seems to be about 40% lower than actual). Pets have the same amount of hp they have had since it was last adjusted in published notes several months ago, and 0 mitigation or close to it (less than a cloth wearing [Removed for Content] necro at least). <div></div>

[Delameko Stone]

You guys are so paranoid.If pet health, mit, damage have changed and its not in the patch notes it could be a bug (most likely).As Moorgard said last time we cried "shadow nerf" at them - they don't do shadow nerfs.  Because we'd find out - like this very thread!  There's no reason to change things and not tell us, because we'll always find out.  Its not like they can sneak it past us.So until a dev posts (maybe someone should drop Blackguard a message and make sure this thread is recognised) quit with the 'shadow nerf' BS.

[Tokam]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jai1 wrote:<BR> Maybe it's because summoners are still on the tops of the parses in raids.  Dunno<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If your out parsing your guild sassins then you need new sassins.

[Sola]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Delameko Stone wrote:<BR><BR>You guys are so paranoid.<BR><BR>If pet health, mit, damage have changed and its not in the patch notes it could be a bug (most likely).<BR><BR>As Moorgard said last time we cried "shadow nerf" at them - they don't do shadow nerfs.  Because we'd find out - like this very thread!  There's no reason to change things and not tell us, because we'll always find out.  Its not like they can sneak it past us.<BR><BR>So until a dev posts (maybe someone should drop Blackguard a message and make sure this thread is recognised) quit with the 'shadow nerf' BS.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Regardless if it's a bug or an actual nerf, the damage is done and it takes forever to get a fix or a response back from SOE as to why and what corrective action is to be taken.  Not to mention when the corrective action is completed =/.

[armus5]

<P>They do make shadow nerfs and when we caught the last one they promissed is was a bug that would be fixed. But they never fixed it. Eventually, people stopped complaining and I'm sure that's what they are hoping for here.</P> <P>One word, Vanguard</P>

[Ruwin]

<P>This is complete BULL[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]....I am sick of having these changes shoved down our throats.....why keep hammering the necro's?</P> <P>JESSSUUSSSSSS!!!!:smileymad:</P>

[Za]

And the last few posters completely fail to realize that people testing these "changes" have confirmed that this is a 100% visual bug... The pets health and mitigation are exactly what they were 2 months ago.

[Delameko Stone]

<div><blockquote><hr>armus550 wrote:<div></div> <p>They do make shadow nerfs and when we caught the last one they promissed is was a bug that would be fixed. But they never fixed it. Eventually, people stopped complaining and I'm sure that's what they are hoping for here.</p> <p>One word, Vanguard</p><hr></blockquote>Paranoia.</div>

[uberpaco]

<DIV>Well the Hp bug is one thing they semi fixed and never spoke a word about. Nerf/Balancing/Bug if soe just talked to us a little, gave us some information it would stop alot of flames and hatred.</DIV>

[Za]

No it wouldn't. It never has and never will. People will complain for the sheer need to complain. People will make up things to complain about if need be. It's just in some peoples nature.And again... I'll point out. The necro class is still easily one of the best and most desirable classes in the game despite all the so called nerfs. If SoE ever actually did anything to hurt summoners or make them truely less than desirable to play or play with, it would have to be so extreme, everyone in the game would notice.

[Mishkel]

<DIV>"And the last few posters completely fail to realize that people testing these "changes" have confirmed that this is a 100% visual bug... The pets health and mitigation are exactly what they were 2 months ago."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can't comment on a posses minion hp display bug as I never look at that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My "in game" experience after taking the last 3 weeks off.  When I went back to fighting the same things I always do.. It seems like my fighter pet is wearing a tissue for armor.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So "in my experience" my tank pets mitigation is not even close to what it was.. nor is it a display bug.  Unless my pet dying is a display bug as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The extent of what I see obviously depends on what I'm fighting.  However, the first thing I did after a few fights was come to the forums to see is there was an "issue'.  One of the first things I found was this thread..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>which seems kinda odd.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is just what I've been seeing in game on my necro.  I'm not going to try and state that this is what everyone would see.</DIV>

[uberpaco]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zald wrote:<BR>No it wouldn't. It never has and never will. People will complain for the sheer need to complain. People will make up things to complain about if need be. It's just in some peoples nature.<BR><BR>And again... I'll point out. The necro class is still easily one of the best and most desirable classes in the game despite all the so called nerfs. If SoE ever actually did anything to hurt summoners or make them truely less than desirable to play or play with, it would have to be so extreme, everyone in the game would notice.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The majority of people aren't.</P> <P>Yes the summoners (not just necro) is still a very good class to play, you have a mage that is protected by someone else, only otherway to accomplish that alone is to two-box thats one reason they are so popular.</P> <P>Now soe has done some much needed balancing with the summoners that they have announced why not something like the pet hp bug? I fail to see the reason. And in this case I'm talking about the conjurors, f.ex. my friends tank pet still missed 3.000hp after the so called fix. If you don't notice -3.000hp then I would say that person definitivt do not play this class.<BR>Why not simply go out and put into the update notes that the bug is fixed but due to balancing not up to the usual amount?</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Kri]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mishkel wrote:<BR> <DIV>"And the last few posters completely fail to realize that people testing these "changes" have confirmed that this is a 100% visual bug... The pets health and mitigation are exactly what they were 2 months ago."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can't comment on a posses minion hp display bug as I never look at that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My "in game" experience after taking the last 3 weeks off.  When I went back to fighting the same things I always do.. It seems like my fighter pet is wearing a tissue for armor.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So "in my experience" my tank pets mitigation is not even close to what it was.. nor is it a display bug.  Unless my pet dying is a display bug as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The extent of what I see obviously depends on what I'm fighting.  However, the first thing I did after a few fights was come to the forums to see is there was an "issue'.  One of the first things I found was this thread..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>which seems kinda odd.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is just what I've been seeing in game on my necro.  I'm not going to try and state that this is what everyone would see.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Question is, if you had never laid eyes on this thread, would you still have "seen" the things you are seeing now? After reading this thread I wanted to check it out for myself. The first day I was convinced that there had been a stealth nerf. After several more sessions I realised that my pet didn't die more often and I didn't have to heal it more often than before. One day I saw one thing, the next day I saw something else. Can you really compare play sessions when they are three weeks apart without factual numbers supporting it? I honestly doubt it. Your skills as a player might have been affected by being away for three weeks and as soon as you're back to your normal self, your pet will die less often. Or perhaps you were less sharp during that particular session due to something happening IRL. Not trying to start a flame war. I'm just saying there are so many variables at play here it's nearly impossible to make a comparison. Even from one day to the next, factual numbers won't have changed but the perception might have.</P> <P>Edit: Typo</P><p>Message Edited by Krith on <span class=date_text>08-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:12 AM</span>