WELCOME BACK!

[Rousso]

<DIV>To third tier DPS! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>woot</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why do I play this stupid game?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[PlageuReaver]

<DIV>*ahum* We were meant to be T3 DPS, if you dont like it reroll.</DIV> <DIV>SOE has said before that this issue will be dealt with in time, and that time is now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not a fanboy, just stating as it is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I am afraid of though is that people are going to cry and say necros are useless and will not be wanting to group with us.</DIV> <DIV>But don't think thats gonna happen.</DIV>

[Jal]

T2 dps is our supposed spot on the holy tiers of dps.T3 if we use our tank pet.Im not too worried about the change i dont see that it will be too bad.

[PlageuReaver]

<DIV>hehe glad to see not everyone is crying! =)</DIV>

[Jal]

Actually im looking forward to it, stealing agro was beginning to be a pain :pPlus i might get to see undead tides full 15 odd dumbfires with the change.

[Koehianna]

I really don't care about our DPS nerf.  There are so many other reasons to be playing a Necro, that if DPS is something worth crying about, you should reroll a new character.Necros are the bestest!  <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span><div></div>

[Rousso]

<P>I calculate a 25 - 30% reduction in our overall DPS based on the various dev posts about LU24. We receive nothing - no increased utility - as a trade off. Will this effect our desirability for groups? You betcha! And it should. Re-roll? How 'bout this...consistency from SoE. They've had more than 2 years to get it right. Instead they hack and slash classes after people have been playing them and have developed expectations.</P> <P>Glad to see so many people so happy about losing 30% of our DPS. WOot WoOt!</P> <P> </P>

[Jal]

Who cares about dps? I can still kill things, i can still group and raid so wheres the issue?Necro's are far more than DPS which is why i enjoy playing.

[Galerius Antonin]

I am so happy our class will no longer be the FOTM, was getting tired of seeing dozens of newbie Necs running around these past cpl months. <div></div>

[Rousso]

<P>Hehe - I am confused. I thought you killed things by doing damage to them. Silly me. I guess necros have some utility I have overlooked that allows us to kill things without doing damage.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Greenie]

Maybe now I can get Master spells for less than 8p on my server!  Seriously, I hate being a popular class.

[Jal]

Dont be facetious, we still will do good damage we just wont be doing more than our fair share.

[Whazy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jalek wrote:<BR>Dont be facetious, we still will do good damage we just wont be doing more than our fair share.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well put.</P> <P>On a side note, the word "facetious" is the only word in the English language to use all 5 vowels in alphabetic order.</P>

[Winsarc11]

<DIV>I too was getting sick of seeing all the n00b necros running around stealing my master spells.  I really hope this gets rid of them.  Im not scared of this change one bit.  Its not hurting our solobility at all, actually helping it with our new pet heals.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And on raids fine, we will just be down with the rest of the melee dps, who are all still 20% above wizards heh.    Love how they used that as an excuse to nerf us.   Fix sorcerors or just make all t1 dps what t3 is now,  t2 to t4 etc.......bleh </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And to the OP, we have never actually been t3 dps so we cant exactly go back to it, I have been on top of the parsers since day one, ask anyone i group with.   Its all about adapting to the changes, and this is yet another one of those many times we will have to do so.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Winsarc11 on <SPAN class=date_text>06-14-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:12 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Winsarc11 on <span class=date_text>06-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:16 AM</span>

[x82nd77]

<P> </P> <P></P> <HR> Whazy wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well put.</BLOCKQUOTE> <P>On a side note, the word "facetious" is the only word in the English language to use all 5 vowels in alphabetic order.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>All I can say is wow... you have way to much time on your hands to even be retaining that bit of knowledge.  But did you know the words ‘’stewardesses'’ and ‘’reverberated'’ are the longest words (12 letters) typed with only the left hand.</P>

[Eriol]

<blockquote><hr>Greenie76 wrote:Maybe now I can get Master spells for less than 8p on my server!  Seriously, I hate being a popular class.<hr></blockquote>They're only 8p on your server? Pretty soon adept1s are going to be around that price. Well, maybe not, but the prices are going out of control (adept1s are usually STARTING around 30-40gp each). Masters? Prepare to shell out 15p at LEAST even for the crappy ones.If we lose FOTM status, that's good, but the nerf will still suck.

[Rousso]

<P>There will not be any decrease in necros on any of the servers after this nerf. People don't delete characters. Hopefully fewer people will play them and that MIGHT lower the price of some necro masters. On my server I have already noticed some necro masters dropping in price. I picked up a couple of T7 masters for 3 to 4 plat range. Got the blighted horde for 7 plat. Undead tide however is still at 47 plat and the pets are going for upwards of 100 plat.</P> <P>I doubt that the pets will drop much in price after this nerf. If you want to have even kind of decent DPS as a necro now you HAVE to have master pets.</P> <P> </P>

[FTL]

<P>Can someone plz show me where it says Necromancers are or ever were to have been tier 2/3 ? because after reading the producers letter this month and summoners, even the producers acknowledge that we will still remain at the top of the tiers just not as far as head of the rest of the pack.</P> <P>If you were tier 2/3 before or even after this "supposed" nerf then sorry, look at upgrading your spells or your tactics, i for one will still be among the top in raids/groups with regards to dps, so really makes no differance what so ever, and if u have'nt read the producers letter for this month, then you should <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Rousso]

<P>After it goes live tell me if you are still top DPS. As for the producer letters and notes  - I believe that part of it that says we are being reduced 30% in DPS. As for that part of it that says we will still be top tier DPS...well I have seen way too many major class adjustments to believe that. SoE has a track record of breaking classes when it makes such major adjustments. I hope you do remain top tier DPS dude, but don't bet on it.</P> <P> </P>

[Jal]

<blockquote><hr>FTL wrote:<P>Can someone plz show me where it says Necromancers are or ever were to have been tier 2/3 ? because after reading the producers letter this month and summoners, even the producers acknowledge that we will still remain at the top of the tiers just not as far as head of the rest of the pack.</P><P>If you were tier 2/3 before or even after this "supposed" nerf then sorry, look at upgrading your spells or your tactics, i for one will still be among the top in raids/groups with regards to dps, so really makes no differance what so ever, and if u have'nt read the producers letter for this month, then you should <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><hr></blockquote>It was the stupid dps tier post done by the devs way back at the start of the game or lu13 or whenever it was supposed to be. People now quote it as gospel despite it being horribly outdated, it did say summoners were t2 with mage/scout and t3 with tank.

[x82nd77]

I am trying to remain optimistic... but I remember the last class that had its damage tweeked and was a FOTM....... have you looked in the rangers forum?

[FTL]

<DIV>Lets be honest here, lets say i am/we are not top dps? Lol so what i think i will live, i wont be packing up the game just because i am not the best of the best (but i do have a very good feeling we will, mainly the reason for being top,  is the mage pet, can anyone show me where thats being nerfed? Didnt think so)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even using the tank pet in offensive stance on raids (aoe immune for certain mobs ftw) still alows me to be up the top end, so i really don't know why people are so worried about this (Doom and gloom i need to phone the samaritans) lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you paid for a beer you didnt like, would u pay for it again?</DIV>

[Gargamel]

<DIV>I bet Zald can still get T1 dps... you guys should try to be more like him.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Greenie]

<DIV>These changes wouldn't bother me so much if I felt my actual spells had more effectiveness in groups.  Making our dumbfires work on encounters switching between targets as was mentioned in another post would be great.  Right now when I assist the main tank, as I'm supposed to I find I can land maybe one and a lifetap on a mob before it dies.  I don't even bother using dumbfires unless we're on a named or tougher ^^^.  Even blue-white ^^^ non-named die pretty fast in high dps groups.  I'm very happy they're changing the encounter DoT to still go off on the encounter if the mob it was targetted on dies.  That was a great fix for me.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Rousso]

<P>Well, obviously, if you are not just ecstatic about a 30% DPS nerf you are either a noob or you dont really know how to play your class. I am a level 64 necro noob but I am excited about the nerf anyway. I am looking forward to being able to out DPS my assassin pet - finally!</P> <P>(sarcasm off)</P> <P> </P>

[Winsarc11]

<DIV> <DIV>Well the reason i think summoners got so powerful in the first place, was because back in the day (way before lu13) when we could hit t1 dps, but hardly anyone really new how.  All the summoners complained about their dmg, this in turn caused a few upgrades that when combined with people figuring out how to really dps, put us way at the top. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is what i imagine will happen to wizards.  I have seen atleast 1 wizard EVER keep up with or beat me in parses on a raid, and that doesnt include the extra 150-200dps they get from dmg not attributed to them, which necros have none of.  You just have to figure out the correct AA lines and spell combos, without dieing <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  If one can do it, then they all can do it.   So once they boost wizards, and more people realize hey we could do alot of dmg before, they will be topdogs on the totem pole high above everyone else.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So i envision Echoes of Faydwer to be dominated by the Wizzys.  But thats just my opinion.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyways im not too worried.  There are tons of other ways to increase dps with a summoner, in fact im testing out a few promising avenues already.  One part of being a necro is they ALWAYS get nerfed, but somehow they adapt and stay around the top.</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Truwen]

<div><blockquote><hr>Jalek wrote:T2 dps is our supposed spot on the holy tiers of dps.T3 if we use our tank pet.Im not too worried about the change i dont see that it will be too bad.<hr></blockquote>Agreed, I play a necro because I like the class, I like the pets, I like the spells, I like the soloability, the survivabilty, the utility and best of all LICH!!! I don't play the class because I want to be super powerful uber DPS MAN...I play the class because i want to. If you play the class because you want the best DPS in the game you better start rolling out toons that are the best dps and upon their nerfage I encourage you to play the next t1 dps class...Necros have been stated as to be intended for the T2/T3 dps, and as such this is a welcome and expected change. I am just hoping they didn't screw the soloability with nerfing the graven attack. Also, I share the concern that people will start crying and not want to group with necros because we aren't their uber leet damage man any more. I have played on test for a couple weeks with these tweaks in play, I will say that it looked good and I didn't really notice a change with my play style being nerfed. Just the amount of damage...but now it is live so we will see what happens.-Truwen</div>

[PlageuReaver]

<P>lets just put it as it is:</P> <P>If you dont like the new changes then just reroll, nobody is forcing you to be a necro</P>

[Aerious Eldrin]

<P>Hey all just a bit of humor.  I will promise to post the next class I play.  I was a 70 ranger, now a necro at 45, so when I get my necro to 70 and get another class I will be sure to post it so that everyone will know which is the next class to get a DPS nerf lol.</P> <P>I didn't even make the necro for DPS, made it cause I wanted to solo.  Hope I stil can ok after this patch.</P> <P>Good luck to us all.  </P>

[PlageuReaver]

and? last char i played before i went serius on necro was lock. We got and still are getting screwed (nerf and not getting the 10k aoe nuke that the single target caster got)  

[Sebhan]

<DIV>Who really cares about tiers of dps, the only thing thats truthful about tiers is that people cry about them, which is why they are called tiers in the first place.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They are not nerfing anything about the necro that makes a necro powerful anyways.  Its not that I have a scout pet, or a root, or a lifetap, or a dot, or a stun, or a snare, or a fear, or buffs, or can summon power to people or that i can heal or that I can rez or that I can throw a small army at a mob/pc, or give the right to breath underwater (and so on).  It's that I can do all those things in one class and look like a billy badd [Removed for Content] doing it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's that no matter what situation I am in, if the mob can be killed by any class in this game solo then a necro can do it.  If a group has a role that needs filling a necro can fill it and not even worry about what the role is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's that in pvp, I have killed people even without a pet up and with rez sickness.  I did it just last night to a group of 2 blues and a green after dying in RoV.  And yes I was amazed, and yes they hesitated and did suck, but it still happened.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So what if I can't kill things as fast as I used too, did you play a necro to do that?  I don't know about you, but I don't recall even considering damage when I decided to play a necro.  If it takes X amount of damage to kill a mob and necros can do X*2 damage in multiple ways on a mob and now they are reduces it to X*2 - .3(X) down to say X.....who cares.  To date, the only solo mobs I have ever died too everyone else dies to also and, I can kill mobs that nobody else I know except that crazy bones sk even attempts.  I personally never used my scout pet for those fights anyways.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Play a necro because being an evil harbringer of death is a privelage, not because some magical tier matters to overal satisfaction in a game. Your evil, don't whine get revenge.  If your ultimate satisfaction is being at the top of the tiers then play a class at the top of the tiers and miss your necro's real skills while your slobbering over a numbers game.</DIV>

[Za]

And I calculated almost no changes to my DPS based on ACTUALLY PLAYING ON TEST!Now that the changes are live, lets see some actual parse numbers, or even better, just play the game and see if it actually affects your playstyle.<p>Message Edited by Zald on <span class=date_text>06-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:34 PM</span>

[Mordak]

<blockquote><hr>Zald wrote:<blockquote><hr>Rousso wrote:<div></div><p>I calculate a 25 - 30% reduction in our overall DPS based on the various dev posts about LU24. We receive nothing - no increased utility - as a trade off. Will this effect our desirability for groups? You betcha! And it should. Re-roll? How 'bout this...consistency from SoE. They've had more than 2 years to get it right. Instead they hack and slash classes after people have been playing them and have developed expectations.</p><p>Glad to see so many people so happy about losing 30% of our DPS. WOot WoOt!</p><hr></blockquote>And I calculated almost no changes to my DPS based on ACTUALLY PLAYING ON TEST!So hmm.... who's more accurate?<hr></blockquote>Ohh I know I know! Whichever of you can do basic math! Ok, what do I win?<div></div>

[Kharz]

I like the changes and am very happy with them. If anything all the people who only played for the DPS will re-roll and I can enjoy my Necro in peace. There were too many anways. >P

[Rousso]

<P>[Removed for Content] Mord. Obviously Zald is correct. 33% scout pet DPS reduction + 30% scout pet skill reduction+ 25% dumbfire pet DPS reduction + 17% reduction to DoTs +x% reduction in other spells MUST = NO CHANGE AT ALL to our DPS. I like Zald's math mojo much better than mine. Mine is just depressing.</P> <P>After playing a bit and parsing some groups it looks like slightly around a 20% reduction while not useing my scout pet and around a 45% reduction while using the scout pet. BUT I am going to try to be more like Zald - obviously his skill at using his scout pet is vastly superior to mine. </P> <P> </P>

[eburgos]

I played some yesterday and even went to a few raids, I dont see that big difference, I still remained at top on parsers (the scout pet dps is noticeably lower though) and I could even parse 1.8k dps using undead tide without dieing. Its not that big deal, the scout pet needed to lower its dps output.<div></div>

[Kri]

<blockquote><hr>Truwen wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Jalek wrote:T2 dps is our supposed spot on the holy tiers of dps.T3 if we use our tank pet.Im not too worried about the change i dont see that it will be too bad.<hr></blockquote>Agreed, I play a necro because I like the class, I like the pets, I like the spells, I like the soloability, the survivabilty, the utility and best of all LICH!!! I don't play the class because I want to be super powerful uber DPS MAN...I play the class because i want to. If you play the class because you want the best DPS in the game you better start rolling out toons that are the best dps and upon their nerfage I encourage you to play the next t1 dps class...Necros have been stated as to be intended for the T2/T3 dps, and as such this is a welcome and expected change. I am just hoping they didn't screw the soloability with nerfing the graven attack. Also, I share the concern that people will start crying and not want to group with necros because we aren't their uber leet damage man any more. I have played on test for a couple weeks with these tweaks in play, I will say that it looked good and I didn't really notice a change with my play style being nerfed. Just the amount of damage...but now it is live so we will see what happens.-Truwen</div><hr></blockquote>Well put <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Necros are fun and incredibly versatile. We're basically all four archetypes rolled into one powerful package. If I want major DPS I play my Wizard. If I want to have fun solo or in groups I play my Necro.

[Eriol]

<blockquote><hr>Krith wrote:Necros are fun and incredibly versatile. We're basically all four archetypes rolled into one powerful package. If I want major DPS I play my Wizard. If I want to have fun solo or in groups I play my Necro.<hr></blockquote>Hehe. Try an EQ1 necro. They literally CAN do everything, to an even greater extent than necros in this game. You think <i>we</i> in eq2 have a variety of abilities? EQ1's puts us to shame for variety of powers.Off the top of my head: nuke (poison at the least, plus special anti-undead lines), lifetap (almost-unresistable), DoT (at LEAST 8 different stackable lines, varying resists too), lifetap DoTs, self-rune (ward in eq2), harmshield (invulnerability), self-evac, self-invisi, life transfers, pets, feign death, best self-mana regen in the game (like eq2 lich w/o dmg proc), <b>mind wrack</b> (tap mana from mob, gives mana regen to grp), direct mana transfer to other PCs (not hearts/shards, but just "boom" and they have mana), resist debuff, fear (doesn't break on dmg), snare (doesn't break on damage either), mez, -70% undead attack speed (70% IIRC), corpse summoning, ressurection. Umm... if I missed anything, any former eq1 necros can chime in.<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[sig]

<DIV>now i miss my eq1 necro /cry</DIV>

[KBern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PlageuReaver wrote:<BR> <DIV>*ahum* We were meant to be T3 DPS, if you dont like it reroll.</DIV> <DIV>SOE has said before that this issue will be dealt with in time, and that time is now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not a fanboy, just stating as it is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I am afraid of though is that people are going to cry and say necros are useless and will not be wanting to group with us.</DIV> <DIV>But don't think thats gonna happen.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>No we were meant to be T2 with our DPS pets.  There is not enough else to our characters to justify us being anything but T2.</P> <P>And with many other glaring imbalances ie Brawlers and Zerkers...there were other things to "fix" that were more important than whacking almost every damage spell we had.</P> <P>Scout pets needed the auto attack and DPS adjustments but they fixed a leaky faucet with a sledgehammer, not a wrench.</P>

[KBern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PlageuReaver wrote:<BR> <P>lets just put it as it is:</P> <P>If you dont like the new changes then just reroll, nobody is forcing you to be a necro</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>That attitude is almost as bad as people already totally whining about it.</P> <P>I have a wait and see attitude and I have played my necro since 12/04 and I dont see it changing now, but there is nothing wrong with providing feed back if people are not happy about the changes and have information to provide.</P>

[Sebhan]

EQ1 necro was probably the best class I have ever played in any game.  In fact, it was so good, that the only reason I even tried EQ2 back in 11 ot' 4 was to see if the necro in this game was anything like eq1.  I had been away from sony for a few years at that point...sadly no, not really even that close, but fun in it's own right (here).  It's a new spin on a classic mmorpg archtype.

[Aboun]

I'm amazed at some of these reactions. Necros got totally hurt in this last LU. If you can't see it, you either don't understand the mechanics of the game or choose to ignore what's in your face.Some opt not to care and play a necro "cause they want to be a necro." Good for you, but this does't mean the changes were too heavily weighted. Some people chose to drive a Yugo cause they want to. The rest of us know better.Then of course is the "you don't have to play a Necro if you don't like it" crowd. This is the crowd responsbile for the decline of so much in our society -- rather than fight for a change they believe in they opt to ignore things and just go away from it. The rest of us know better.The orginal statement made about nefing summoners was that during specific Epic encounters summoners were coming out on the DPS lists higher than Wizards which is not intended. Rather than make such wide and sweeping changes to the characters why not change those encounters? The vast majority of raiding takes place at end-game levels (while t4 and t5 raiding exists, it's very seldom in comparison) ... so why change an entire 60 something levels of gamplay to make a situation you'll experience late in life on a raid the way the developers imagine it?

[Jerr]

<P>SOE employees could take positions all over the country in clock towers with 30-06's and start picking off people and there still would be a few people on this forum that would testify in their defense that they were only rebalancing the population.</P> <P>2nd post is by some guy saying we were meant to be T3-new one on me-then he tries to change his tune after realizing how stupid he sounds making that inane comment.</P> <P>Give us a break--for once take off your skirts and put your pom-poms in the closet.  I wouldn't doubt it if you guys thought the 98% nerf to a core trouby ability was ok also.</P> <P>Anti-fanboy club,</P> <P>Cheers,</P> <P>Jerril</P><p>Message Edited by Jerril on <span class=date_text>06-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:35 PM</span>

[Uanelven]

<div><blockquote><hr>Eriol wrote:<blockquote><hr>Krith wrote:Necros are fun and incredibly versatile. We're basically all four archetypes rolled into one powerful package. If I want major DPS I play my Wizard. If I want to have fun solo or in groups I play my Necro.<hr></blockquote>Hehe. Try an EQ1 necro. They literally CAN do everything, to an even greater extent than necros in this game. You think <i>we</i> in eq2 have a variety of abilities? EQ1's puts us to shame for variety of powers.Off the top of my head: nuke (poison at the least, plus special anti-undead lines), lifetap (almost-unresistable), DoT (at LEAST 8 different stackable lines, varying resists too), lifetap DoTs, self-rune (ward in eq2), harmshield (invulnerability), self-evac, self-invisi, life transfers, pets, feign death, best self-mana regen in the game (like eq2 lich w/o dmg proc), <b>mind wrack</b> (tap mana from mob, gives mana regen to grp), direct mana transfer to other PCs (not hearts/shards, but just "boom" and they have mana), resist debuff, fear (doesn't break on dmg), snare (doesn't break on damage either), mez, -70% undead attack speed (70% IIRC), corpse summoning, ressurection. Umm... if I missed anything, any former eq1 necros can chime in.<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr></blockquote>Best thing of all?   Few people understood or played them.    I loved to be that aloof.  </div>

[Eriol]

<blockquote><hr>Uanelven wrote:Best thing of all? Few people understood or played them. I loved to be that aloof.<hr></blockquote>Very true. The difference between a well-played necro and a mediocre one was almost as large as it was between a well-played chanter and "not" in that game. Except in the tank classes (somewhat), that type of skill-division with such drastically different results just doesn't exist in eq2. Most are at least "good" without trying very much.Oh, and in my big list, I forgot that necros could root too. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[3cho]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rousso wrote:<BR> <DIV>To third tier DPS! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>woot</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why do I play this stupid game?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I was on my 50 Necro last night, and other than havign to get used to the higher recasts on my dumbfire pets (45s and 1m)... the overall changes didn't seem to have a huge impact on my enjoyment.  I have a M1 Grim Terror and an AD3 Scout and Tank.  I'm sure people will have different opinions, but I'd say... so far... I've seen nothing to indicate that Necro's have been broken beyond recall.

[Masu]

<DIV>The nerf put you back in your place, d'you think the damage you could dish out was fair to the other pure DPS classes?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The nerf was justified, your whining is not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[KBern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Masuim wrote:<BR> <DIV>The nerf put you back in your place, d'you think the damage you could dish out was fair to the other pure DPS classes?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The nerf was justified, your whining is not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>What place was that asstard troll?  You have tons of parses about how the changes "put us back in our place"?  I love people who spout their ignorant crap as a neaner neaner reply.</P> <P>There were a few problems that would have lowered our DPS appropriately, but the many changes together went to far and now they even screwed up the mage pet AI so it gets even worse if we try to use our mage pet....which was supposed to be T2 DPS, but there are many classes with more beefed up DPS than summoners if you actually had a clue.</P> <P>Swashys brigands Tier 2, doing tier 1 dps....Zerkers t3 doing t1 dps, Brawlers t3 doing t1 DPS at times, but mostly t2.</P> <P>None of this fixed the issues wiht warlocks or wizards...at all...so I am curious, what did this fix again?</P>

[Uanelven]

Had enough time to pop into nest tonight and soloing took a big hit.   Incoming damage to the tank is just relentless compared to what it used to be and I'm sure it can't all be attributed to the stun nerf.     I'm off to smell some roses, have a beer and then try grouping at some point and hopefully have something positive to say.<div></div>

[Rousso]

<P>So necros solo well? News to me. My tank pet fully buffed gets owned in two or three hits fighting anything bigger than a ^ mob. Where is the harm in giving our tank pet enough Hp's or mitigation to actually be viable soloing. Most of my solo strategies pre LU24 involved using the pet as a DoT untill it died and then rooting and blasting the mob. The root and blast portion usually lasts over 70% of the fight. I am doing essentially what a wizzard would for most of the fight - just without any real tools for the job.</P> <P>After LU 24 my tank pet is so weak that it offers little extra staying power over my scout pet. Scout holds aggro a little better - takes about the same beating that the fighter pet does and does a little better DPS. IMHO all of our pets suck now for soloing.</P> <P>SOE if you dont want us to do any DPS, well you write the code, not much we can do about that. At the very least beef up our tank pet so that we can solo when we cant get into groups that need DPS.</P> <P> </P>

[GusEQ]

Word is the next LU will add the spell for necros to summon flowers and rainbows...and candy.Seriously though I was quite saddened by the huge hit all summoners took.  While I didnt chose my Conj for dps I think this big of a nerf just shows that sony doesnt have a clue what they want the job of our class to be.  Now I completly agree some things about our classes were over-powered, but IMO they went way overboard(even more-so with conjurors losing their Stifle ability).  So what though, what can we do about it except argue and debate on sony's webspace. And pray that these same devs that noticed summoners being over-powered will also notice how [Removed for Content] these changes were to soloing summoners.  Ive read from some of the devs that they are not going to be as focussed on "gameplay" issues in the near-future  because how much they have done the last few updates.  I really hope that doesnt mean they are going to ignore class balancing, especially after such a big swing of the nerf bat in LU24.<div></div>

[ca]

<P>HOLY CRAP!!</P> <P>what the hell is goin on here??!!?!?</P> <P>are you all serious?you can't be. do you realy deep down believe that with ANY of our pets we have been nerfed 40%??!?!? No way in hell ANYONE would be quiet about that, even the most ardent fanboi would be up in arms over that, don't look at the posted numbers go into the game and play, I have been and I can promise that its not that huge a difference, honestly 40% is gamebreaking, 17% is not. If it is that huge a difference everyone would notice. As for your pet dying in a few hits I cannot immagine what you are taking on, ^^ with the mage pet? yeah my tank pet seems to be taking more damage than it used to but it certainly doesn't die that fast, with the heals and pet heal staff i can and have, in the last few days, held off heroic mobs several levels higher than me, sure I can't solo them but I can keep them busy till the tank gets to them, if a single ^ solo mob was owning them in a few hits there is no way that could happen. And you know what, I am a firm believer in bringing up class issues on the forums, it works, but flippin out and saying we are at the bottom of parse lists is wrong, saying the class is broke is wrong, mention the issue, bring in parsed data, hard in game evidence not a half [Removed for Content] addition of the LU math, from reading some of the stuff here I would assume that necros cant solo green down arrow mobs and do 10 damage in raids yet in game I see people still impressed at what we can do and necros still coming out on top of parsers against good players. an extra 15 seconds between dumbfire casts? easy on raids use that time to cast your DOT's your low level spells that proc lich or 2-3 lifetaps and guess what? your doing mega damage still, I don't know I guess there HAS to be something for people to complain about but please stop with the doom and gloom outlook, if it is really that bad put the toon aside, /bug and /feedback all the time and post up real info, would be an interesting diversion.</P> <P>P.S. I really bet the dev who mentioned DPS tiers is really kickin himself in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] </P>

[GusEQ]

<div><blockquote><hr>cavv wrote:<div></div>P.S. I really bet the dev who mentioned DPS tiers is really kickin himself in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] <hr></blockquote>Well, being that other devs have mentioned regretting that post I would have to imagine he cant be too thrilled about it after the fact either.  While his intentions were harmless he caused a major uproar.</div>

[Uanelven]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>cavv wrote:<div></div><p>As for your pet dying in a few hits I cannot immagine what you are taking on, ^^ with the mage pet? yeah my tank pet seems to be taking more damage than it used to but it certainly doesn't die that fast.</p><p><font color="#ff6600">Not a few hits no but I'm telling you that some easy kills that tank pet could toe-to-toe with now are impossible with that usual strat.   That's non debatable but the fact of if that's right or wrong is.  Guess it's intended at this stage given I know one or two other classes have had their solo capability rocked as well.   Not going to support whining about it but I'm not going to pretend it hasn't happened either... <span>:smileyindifferent:</span><span></span></font></p><p> /bug and /feedback <font color="#ff6600">*I am </font>all the time and post up real info <font color="#ff6600">*</font><font color="#ff6600">Pointless </font>, would be an interesting diversion.</p> <hr></blockquote></div><p>Message Edited by Uanelven on <span class=date_text>06-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:12 AM</span>

[Rousso]

<P>Ok here are some changes I have seen: I consistetly out DPS my scout pet in groups. That never happened before. Based on my parses from five levels ago (level 60) I was consistently doing in the mid 900's dps wise in groups. Now (at 65) my dps is consistently in the low 700s. Since I have been using ACT to maximize my DPS I also consistely out DPS other necros that I group with. Last night in blackscale I was outparsing a level 70 necro in 3 out of 5 fights.</P> <P>On the solo side, I have always felt the necro underpowered for soloing. My zerker and assassin alts both solo far better than my necro. After LU24 I can still solo, but sadly my pet is not with me for very much of the fight.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[KBern]

<DIV>Maybe my acronym database is not working correctly today, but what is ACT?</DIV>

[Aerious Eldrin]

<P>Advanced Combat Tracker</P> <P>But, back to subject above.  As a person that made a Necro for only soloing since my play time has changed recently, I have to say that the nerf to tank pet is horrible.  It really cannot take a hit anymore, and this I could probably handle, but w/ my pet heal changing from 189 then 89 every 4 sec for 20 sec, to 389 and then 59 every second, I can't cover the new dmg my pet is taking w/o grabing mad agro myself.  My transfer life already does 570.  I think that was a sufficent direct heal.  I simply cannot heal my pet.  I get more hate using my pet heal now then if I just drop my Transfer life.  <BR>That is messed up.  One or the other would have been a sufficent nerf imo.  Either make the tank pet a wuss and leave heals alone, or leave tank alone and change heals.  I mean, honestly, my pet at this level has a 36% hate gain buff and three taunts.  It SHOULD be able to hold agro from my DoTs and heals.</P>

[Winsarc11]

<DIV>I honestly dont see what you guys are talking about.  Im still at the top of the dps parsers EVERY raid EVERY group, if my pets dont die.  And im using my scout pet.  I dont raid with idiots either.  Every random raid ive gone to, my guild is usally the top5 dps, if they are that many of us there.  Sure im parsing about 20% less than i did before the update, but im still about 10% above everyone else.  Figure out your spell lineups, what order to chain cast (addtl if your a necro you should ALWAYS be casting).  Long fights im still blowing everyone else away, shorter fights the parses are alittle closer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for soloing, i dont see much difference(except in the AP, my pet gets owned).  In fact i actually soloed some mobs today, that i couldnt kill preLU (70^^^ top of PoA by the dragons).  But then again i now have cabalist cover maxed and 47% avoidance, and our pet heal is slightly stronger.</DIV>

[ca]

<DIV>OK well my main gripe was about people calling this the end of the class, game is ruined, and saying we took a 40% hit in dps wich is insane.....</DIV> <DIV>yeah I parse less than I usually do but I still come out ahead of people (GOOD PLAYERS) in group or raid situations, not consistantly #1 but easily within the top 5 and if I pay no attention to utility,tossin the odd heal ect, and go full tilt dps I can seriously compete if not bypass fully every other dps class in the raid and I still use scout.</DIV> <DIV>as for solo play I agree it is much harder than it was, pet cant hold aggro at all anymore, I tested by letting my pet take the mob down to 2/3 health, then i tossed in all my little damage spells and when the mob went down to 1/3 health I did my lifetap and BAM I had aggro everytime, then cut back completly, let tank toe to toe it with a green solo mob till the mob was at 1/3 life hit lifetap bringing the mob a toes length from deaths door and BAM I get aggro again everytime, throw in the fact that I have to heal the pet more since he is taking more damage and it seems like I'm in harclaves again playing tank for my pet, mind you its not impossible, I can still solo almost all of the content I could before but it takes longer and it seems like my lifetap has become a group only spell, needs to be fixed, but I'm not going to quit over it.</DIV>

[quamdar]

i don't really mind the nerfs i mean they suck but i think that it needed to be done we were relying on our pets and dumbfires for way to much damage hopefully they do give us some utility for it though.  i would love utility because utility doesn't get nerfed because it doesn't show up on a parse.   just look at brigs and how much they raise a raids DPS because the DPS the debuffs from a brigand alone account for more added DPS than a necro could do not icluding their own DPS. not saying they need to nerf them but i envy the fact that every raid would want 2 of them atleast and still none of the big whiners have started complaining because their debuffs don't show up on parser which is all they watch. <div></div>