Undead tide

[Jal]

Ok so for our ancient teachings spell this isnt great but it has its situational usefulness, the description says it can cast up to 15 (i think) pets from corpses with 3 as the base number. So im in the palace of the awakened and we are killing the dragon and there are a fair few droag corpses around so i think hey finally a chance!The spell casts and i await my army of the undead only to find only 4 pets have been summoned and a load of corpses are still at my feet.Now i usually only cast this when there are no corpses around so i havent got firm evidence of this but is the maximum number of pets cast part of the spell working correctly? I might go find some low levels to test on later tonight but it just annoyed me that it seemed to not generate the full number of pets even though there were plenty of corpses around.It would be nice if they made this summon the full amount without corpses considering its short duration but since that seems unlikley id at least like to make sure it is working correctly now. Anyone else have experience?

[KBern]

<P>I dont even pay attention anymore with this.</P> <P>The only time I have seen 12+ mobs was when I was camping the wips thing for claymore on Cloudmist Island and had about 20 bodies laying around...</P> <P>There may be a very short radius around the caster where the bodies need to be to count towards the total summoned.</P>

[Skua]

hmmm plane shift >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>...>>>>> undead tide undeaad tide is very situational .....and ppl looting fast doesnt help =shmmm 1 swarm pet but powerfull 1 will be better but is a "tide" so....

[Deila]

<P> </P> <P>I noticed this the other day when in Sanctum of the Scaleborn, too. I cast Undead Tide at a named, and afterwards there were still plenty of untouched corpses lying about, and I got nowhere near the 12 pets (12 is max, not 15).</P> <P>I'm not sure how the rules for this spell really work, regarding corpses. My assumption was that it would grab corpses to contribute to the pet count within the range of the spell, as a radius, but that clearly didn't happen the other day. Extra, unused corpses were well within the 30m range of the spell. The term 'nearby corpses' in the description isn't very telling.</P> <P>For what it's worth, the only time I've personally seen a full 12 on this one was during the Rahotep raid, when I specifically asked everyone to not loot the corpses. Impressive show when it reaches potential, but yeah - this spell very, and I mean <EM>very</EM>, rarely even approaches it's full potential. Even half the spell's potential is not normally obtainable.</P> <P>Undead Tide, in my opinion, does need to be rethought. I don't think I'll get any arguments here on that one. Such a very cool concept for a spell, that just falls pretty flat in practice.</P> <P> </P>

[johnathanb]

From my exp , the AE radius of the spell is really small, either that or the spell is not doing what its suppose to be doing

[KBern]

<P>If they simply reduced the timer to 5-7 minutes, and not 15, it would make the spell really useful.</P> <P>Now I rarely use it when soloing unless I am fighting some heroic, which is not often, and mainly use it on raids and groups for the larger encounters where they wont be useless and stand around bothering me for 30 seconds until they poof.</P>

[DarkNef]

<DIV>I still Think Undead Tide should consume Essenses of Anguish, 12 essenses = 12 pets, because yeah corpses in this game decay way to fast especially if they have no loot on them, and people are so loot happy, it just makes it way in effective, the General idea of it was good but its ineffective, I mean with stacks of 99 Essenses of anguish it wouldnt be to big of an issue scince the stupid things pile up on you. It would make Sense for it to work that way.</DIV>

[daboa]

I use this spell whenever its up, cause its useless anyways but i also have never seen more then 4 pets summoned. And soloing i don loot corpses right away.  Still just 4 pets. through the pets do way more damage then any of our other swarm pets.  Plus they last longer i had one of the Undead tide pet tank a blue mob till they killed it.

[Za]

You can get more than 12. Its not entirely useless, but it is VERY situational. I actually use it to solo ^^^ named mobs. What I do is solo a few small groups of mobs in the area just to get 2 or 3 extra corpses with loot on them. Pull the mob, send in Tank pet, stun the mob. Drop pigs, ghoul, UT, and the L58 damage/heal proc spell on the mob. stand back at the edge of agro range and nuke till you start getting Agro then FD. With pet, horde, and UT all on a mob, I've seen it loose 20-30%after I FD. I've won many an encounter this way that would otherwise have been really tough.I've had hordes up to 8 or 9 at raids. 1 trick is to time your UT just after a mob AoEs, you'll get all the players that don't have high enough resists, and all the pets etc. Yeah its not reliable, but when you do get 9-12 of those suckers to pop, they do very nice damage.

[dragontamer619]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zald wrote:<BR><BR>I've had hordes up to 8 or 9 at raids. 1 trick is to time your UT just after a mob AoEs, <EM>you'll get all the players that don't have high enough resists</EM>, and all the pets etc. Yeah its not reliable, but when you do get 9-12 of those suckers to pop, they do very nice damage.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>Maybe I am reading this wrong, but you're saying that UT will work on dead players too?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My wife has a necro and she uses UT on ^^^ mobs and it seems to work really well for her.  I haven't seen anymore than about 4 mobs out at once when she does cast it though.  My necro is only a 49, he has a way to go before he gets this spell.  LOL.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My other question about UT is if two necros are in the group and there are a plethora of mobs at their feet.  They both cast UT at almost the same time would they both get the mobs that are dead?  Has anyone tried this to see if it would work like that?</DIV>

[Za]

Well, the problem of course is counting the results of UT, but I'm like 99% positive that yes, it is triggered by PC corpses and I'm reasonably sure by all pet corpses (DFs included).ahh and to answer your 2nd question... yes, both necros could use the same corpses.<p>Message Edited by Zald on <span class=date_text>05-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:05 PM</span>

[dragontamer619]

<DIV>Don't summoned pets despawn immediately when they die?  Call me a noob necro but what does DFs mean?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm going to go test the PC UT when I go home for lunch.  I didn't think that it would work because how would/could you be rezzed if you were a pet fighting for the necro.  Maybe I am overthinking this, but I haven't seen this talked about before.  I mean the whole player being summoned through UT.  </DIV>

[Deila]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dragontamer619 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Don't summoned pets despawn immediately when they die?  Call me a noob necro but what does DFs mean? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm going to go test the PC UT when I go home for lunch.  I didn't think that it would work because how would/could you be rezzed if you were a pet fighting for the necro.  Maybe I am overthinking this, but I haven't seen this talked about before.  I mean the whole player being summoned through UT. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The DF is yet another acronym for dumbfire pets. Those don't always poof right away when they're killed - corpses will lie about for a brief time.</P> <P>I hadn't tested Undead Tide with player corpses either, though heard reports that it indeed did add to the Tide count. I will if I get a chance. Just hoping that it doesn't work the same way it does on mob corpses - I know some people that'd be pretty upset if their character was deleted because I'd cast the Tide using their corpse.  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Oh, as for the 'how would/could you be rezzed if you were a pet fighting for the necro' part. Call that suspension of disbelief. Game mechanic for practical purposes over 'realisticness'  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Same idea as reviving at little tents - just how does <EM>that</EM> work, anyway?</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Deila on <span class=date_text>05-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:31 PM</span>

[prince_sd]

<div><blockquote><hr>SkuaII wrote:hmmm plane shift >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>...>>>>> undead tide undeaad tide is very situational .....<hr></blockquote>Both things are true but I still love this spell. It is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing awesome.Just parse it on a raid fight <span>and you will know :smileywink:</span></div>

[dragontamer619]

<P>Crapola, I didn't get to test the UT on PCs during lunch.  I did tell my wife about it and we will test it out tonight.  It would be really cool if it does work.  That would be funny if UT erased the player's toon.  Poof gone from existance.  hehe.  I would think that if it did use the players corpses that someone would of posted that on the necro forums by now right?<BR><BR>DF= Dumbfire pet.  Gotcha there.  I know that mobs stay on the ground momentarily too.  I thought I read on one of the LUs that they increased the time they stay on the ground.  Maybe it's part of LU24, I can't remember right now.</P> <P>The mystery of death, they touch on it in the Queens Colony and the Outpost of the Overlord.  They mention how death is different here in norrath.  Where you do die, but you do not really *die* per se.  I found that interesting.  I can speculate how it would work but I dont' want to give myself a headache.  lol.</P>

[Za]

UT has nothing to do with the corpses, it simply adds 1 DF pet to the spawn count for each corpse in your area. The radius it conciders is VERY small, so you pretty much have to be standing on a pile of dead bodies for it to work. But if there are 12 people dead at your feet and you cast it, you just summon 12 undead pets, the corpses are not affected at all. You don't loose loot, you can't affect other PCs, you don't make corpses last any longer or go away sooner. All UT does is an area count of corpses (PC or NPC) and add that count to 3. Thats how many DF pets get summoned.

[Supa Mint Flava]

<DIV>I've never been able to get more than 4 undead to pop up at any time, even when mob bodies are at my feet.  I don't know why this hasn't been fixed yet, but seems to me perhaps the devs think it does enough damage as is.  If that's the case, then change the recast to 5 minutes instead of 15.  At a 15 minute recast, I think we should absolutely have 12.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If we ever get 12, and the damage increase is commensurate, I'd think we'd have to FD.  I see this spell being used as a last-ditch raid mob burn, or difficult named.</DIV>

[Za]

<blockquote><hr>Supa Mint Flava wrote:<DIV>I've never been able to get more than 4 undead to pop up at any time, even when mob bodies are at my feet.  I don't know why this hasn't been fixed yet, but seems to me perhaps the devs think it does enough damage as is.  If that's the case, then change the recast to 5 minutes instead of 15.  At a 15 minute recast, I think we should absolutely have 12.  </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>If we ever get 12, and the damage increase is commensurate, I'd think we'd have to FD.  I see this spell being used as a last-ditch raid mob burn, or difficult named.</DIV><hr></blockquote>1. See a necro that knows how to use it, cuz it does in fact work this way.2. It hasn't been fixed cuz its not broken.3. Yes, when you get it right, you really do need to FD. I generally drop UT on a raid mob at 75% or so, gives others time to build a little agro and I usually have more corpses by then. So, I usually , send in pet, horde, DoT, Send in UT, then move far from AoE range and immediately FD. If you get agro and die, your DPS dies with you, so don't get greedy.Doing this. I've been FD for 1/2 of a fight, and STILL been in the top DPS. UT does sick amounts of damage while its up if you get a good number of spawns, and they seem to have more HPts than the horde.

[dragontamer619]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zald wrote:<BR>UT has nothing to do with the corpses, it simply adds 1 DF pet to the spawn count for each corpse in your area. The radius it conciders is VERY small, so you pretty much have to be standing on a pile of dead bodies for it to work. But if there are 12 people dead at your feet and you cast it, you just summon 12 undead pets, the corpses are not affected at all. You don't loose loot, you can't affect other PCs, you don't make corpses last any longer or go away sooner. <BR><BR>All UT does is an area count of corpses (PC or NPC) and add that count to 3. Thats how many DF pets get summoned.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ahhhh ::smacks head:: I'm with you now.  HAha.  Well in that case it did work last night.  =)  Man I feel pretty silly right now.  I did see more DF pets from UT last night when than before.  The whole time I was expecting the mobs to stand up and attack.  Now that I know how it works it makes a lot more sense.  Thanks for the clarification on UT. 

[Za]

OMG, I wish! That would be hecka nice if it did.My memory is fuzzy, but I think EQ1 necros had a spell that did in fact do this. It wasn't a horde, but for like a few minutes you got to choose 1 PC corpse and make a temproary pet out of it. =)

[dragontamer619]

<DIV>I remember on EQ1 this necro I was running with kept telling me to leave the corpses on the ground.  Then after about 5 were killed he cast his spell and all the corpses stood up and started whacking the crap out of this other mob.  It was awesome to see.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seeing as I now know how it UT works, I have seen it at its full pontential a couple of times.  It is pretty impressive to watch that much I can say.</DIV>

[Deila]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dragontamer619 wrote:<BR> <BR>The whole time I was expecting the mobs to stand up and attack.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>In my perfect Undead Tide (if it indeed has to rely on nearby corpses), that's kinda how I'd envision it. Base 3 pets of the Tide could be the ghosts we have now, but the others are the corpses getting up and joining in - with a blanched texture. Once killed again, or the spell duration ends, they fall back over - with corpse loots still intact and able to be looted by the group. And yeah, even with player corpses (sans the loot part, except perhaps on PvP servers <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).</P> <P> </P>

[Za]

<DIV>To go one step further I sooooo wish, the spell made the DFs take on the characteristics of the corpse they come from. With EQ1... again my memory is fuzzy... I beleive if a cleric died and you used its corpse, the temp pet used cleric spells. Etc.. for any other class. THAT would be cool! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd love to be in a group with 5 wizards. I'd let em all die just to mooch off their carcuses. If that ain't necroish I don't know what is!</DIV>

[dragontamer619]

<DIV>I agree with you Delia!  I think UT would be so awesome that way.  I like the way it is now too, especially sense now I know how it works.  LOL.  </DIV>

[Tokam]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Deila wrote:<BR> <P>For what it's worth, the only time I've personally seen a full 12 on this one was during the Rahotep raid, when I specifically asked everyone to not loot the corpses. Impressive show when it reaches potential, but yeah - this spell very, and I mean <EM>very</EM>, rarely even approaches it's full potential. Even half the spell's potential is not normally obtainable.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>If I dont get 12 when doing nest then Im a bit dissapointed - but I do this loot run with guildies and we handle the final waves of mobs in such a way as to maximise the body count when the named is pulled. I even have a /g macro for this :smileytongue:</P> <P>Outside of nest, (or Rahotep / anything else with similar waves of soon-to-be-corpses) then Im happy if I see 4. And by happy I mean that I feel I am getting an above average return from the spell as-is, not that I am happy with the spell.<BR></P>

[Jal]

- Necromancer: Undead Tide: Increased corpse detection radius to 30 meters.^^ from the test patch notes, its a start anyway hopefully we may see a few more actual tides and not so many undead dribbles.

[LiquidFlex]

<P>I was running thru PoA with a few guildies a while back, and we had quite a few un-expected mobs pop... like always. Anyway, we started to do pretty well maintaining the mobs, then we get the eventual "train" of mobs from others who just so love to do so. Needless to say, our group was rapidkly becoming overwhelmed. Our MT dropped as did one of the scouts right as I cast the UT. It automatically raised about 6 and they went in with a nice fury of death blows. Ofcourse then I had to FD right away because I saw the entire encounter rush towards me, but not before poping off my little AoE to add to the damage.</P> <P>Although I only got about 6 out of my tide, it was quite nice and saved the rest of the group from a complete wipe. However, soon after, we had another "train" come down on us while I was still FD and my remaining UT did nothing but stand there and watch as the rest of the group got eaten up.</P> <P>I was unsure how to get them to engage while I was still FD. Any ideas on that one?</P> <P>At any rate, I do like the spell when I can get it to function to <EM>my desire</EM>. Though I'v only really tried to use it a few times due to the extremely long recast. And while I understand the long recast is due to the function of the spell and the amount of damage/pets that <EM>could</EM> come out of it, it certainly isn't as <EM>straight foreward</EM> in effect or explanation as all of our other spells. Then again, like I said I probably just haven't played with that spell enough yet.</P>

[Uanelven]

<div><blockquote><hr>FriQenstein wrote:<div></div><p>I was unsure how to get them to engage while I was still FD. Any ideas on that one?</p> <hr></blockquote>They won't engage a new encounter.   They will only work through the one you sent them at.</div>

[Sarkoris]

<P>A really simple fix for the low tide numbers would be if it counted deaths in the radius, not actual corpses. If a mob/PC has died within its AOE range in say the last 60 seconds, you get the extra pets. This alleviates the problem of trigger happy looters without compromising the spell so much as to make it unbalancing.</P> <P>I also think that once their target dies, they should die as well, without having to click the spell off, to avoid unnecessary health drain.</P> <P>Sark.</P>